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On September 30 2014 23:38 PassiveAce wrote:Spanking is for Sex, not for ChildrenInteresting article. It discusses the origin and evolution of spanking. Pointing out that spanking is a sex act in both historical and biological contexts.
or, OR!The relationship between oxytocin and human sexual response is unclear.
and thenOxytocin is also thought to modulate inflammation by decreasing certain cytokines. Thus, the increased release in oxytocin following positive social interactions has the potential to improve wound healing.
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yeah i found the biological argument to be pretty specious (I dont know anything about hormones or biological chemicals) but I think the historical examples are pretty clear. I think spanking as a punishment instead of as an explicitly sexual act is a relatively new phenomenon. Which is pretty interesting imo.
we used to just hit kids anywhere but now wev localized it to the butt, despite longstanding historical precedent that its a sex act. i wonder why that is?
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On October 01 2014 01:15 PassiveAce wrote:
yeah i found the biological argument to be pretty specious (I dont know anything about hormones or biological chemicals) but I think the historical examples are pretty clear. I think spanking as a punishment instead of as an explicitly sexual act is a relatively new phenomenon.
Only under the strict definition that spanking is a light smack to the butt. Historically, parents have used corporal punishment since, well, ever.
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yeah wev hit kids forever but we didnt hit them exclusively on the butt. What im curious about is why its been localized to that specific area in the face of the historical context of its use as a sex act dating back to almost 500 BC and continuing through victorian england and beyond.
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On September 29 2014 16:40 nimbim wrote:
I wasn't spanked, but my parents slapped me in the face. My mother hit me until I asked her to stop (I was 7 or 8), she looked really upset when I said that. My father hit me until I tried to hit him back (around 13years old), the surprise on his face was priceless.
I always thought their behaviour was unreasonable and if I should ever have children, I hope I won't make the same mistake. How can you teach your child that violence is wrong and then use it on them? It's simply retarded.
To be fair, you explicitly said you weren't spanked, but this sounds like a good example of how not to discipline your child - how not to "spank" your child.
I and my wife spank our 2 year old, but only if she is expressing open defiance. If she spills her milk, or "tee tees" on accident, we just talk to her about it and give her encouragement. However, if I tell her to pick up her toys and she says "no," that's altogether different. I usually give her 2 or more chances, depending on the situation and depending on how defiant she has been recently, but if she keeps saying "no" or just flat out ignores us, she gets a spanking.
Spanking in our household:
I explain to her that what she did was wrong and that now she's getting a spanking because she didn't listen. We have a designated "tool" for the spanking. It's actually very close to an old paper towel holder with a little tape added because it started falling apart, hah. Sometimes, not always, she's upset that she's even getting a spanking and may start crying. In that case, I don't usually spank her that hard because she's already feeling the punishment and that is the whole point. After the spanking is over, I look her in the eyes and explain again what she did wrong, that she has to listen to mommy and daddy, and that's why she got a spanking. Then, I pick her up and hug her for an extended time and tell her I love her.
Most times before I'm even over it myself, she's already wanting to play again, looking at me with those mischievous eyes that a child does when they want to horseplay.
For anyone that may think, "Oh, you don't do that every time. Please." Yes, I do. I take disciplining my daughter very seriously because I believe I am helping her, not harming her. Her future is only made easier through our discipline, not more difficult.
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To be fair, you explicitly said you weren't spanked, but this sounds like a good example of how not to discipline your child - how not to "spank" your child.
This is like three quarters of the "spanking experiences" over the last few pages and at least half over the course of the whole thread.
On October 01 2014 01:23 danl9rm wrote:
Her future is only made easier through our discipline, not more difficult.
The good ol' "Whoever spares the rod hates their children"? Well it worked two thousand years ago, so it must be a great idea now. It doesn't actually seem to matter that there is no factual evidence that spanking actually does anything positive for your children.
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On October 01 2014 01:15 PassiveAce wrote:
yeah i found the biological argument to be pretty specious (I dont know anything about hormones or biological chemicals) but I think the historical examples are pretty clear. I think spanking as a punishment instead of as an explicitly sexual act is a relatively new phenomenon. Which is pretty interesting imo.
we used to just hit kids anywhere but now wev localized it to the butt, despite longstanding historical precedent that its a sex act. i wonder why that is?
don't know about that. it was at least tabu in any kind, form or shape of history as far as i know.
the localization happened for pragmatic reasons imo. the butt doesn't bruise easily, there are no bones to break, was readily accessible, it wouldn't hurt that bad(supposedly).
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Spanking has not just been taboo forever, it actually has a long history.
if you look through the article i linked you can find a etching from I think 490 BC depicting two dudes spanking a women. If you google "spanking in victorian england" you will find that it was a punishment that men would give to their wives that had very strong sexual tones. (often explicitly sexual.)
There are also paintings from the middle and dark ages in europe that depict spanking as explicitly sexual.
It wasnt used as a punishment for children in these eras, but it was used.
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I never had a 'formal' spanking, but earned a hand slap on the butt on more than one occasion.
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No, absolutely not and I find it wrong and terrible on all levels. Never strike a child.
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On September 30 2014 20:11 Crushinator wrote:
It is the calm and systematic abuse that makes me feel the most disgusted, but perhaps that is personal.
Anyway the discussion is fairly pointless at this point, the pro-corporal punishment crowd cannot be reasoned with and violence against them is the only way to teach them its wrong.
Same here. My father didn't really show anger when he gave us the belt- and this only made it even more confusing I think. When my schizophrenic mother accused us of whatever crazy ideas she drummed up, when we denied it it made her even more angry that she felt we were lying. When he got home, he calmly lined us up and belted out bare asses without listening to reason. If you guys want to know what effects this has on a kid, I can say for me it caused me to rebel big time. Started hanging out with the "bad crowd" at school, caused a lot of nervous issues and made me violent. Hell, I still bite my fingernails today. And of course, the last time my father went to hit me ended up with me tackling him and punching him in the face- dog turned on the master.
But yeah, that emotion-less violence which people advocate here is the more disturbing kind imo. Sort of like the serial killer that stands stoic and shows no remorse which our perverted justice system is so intrigued with to better understand etc.
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I vaguely recall being spanked once; don't even remember what for. Didn't really make any impact whatsoever. All I recall from it is that my parents where all formal about it, like this is a big moment (knowing my parents, my dad felt I deserved a reprimande for what I did; but my mom stopped him and they came up with a "spanking" (i probably deserved physical punishment, my dad's pretty damn good at knowing when a line has been crossed))
The time I remember incredibly vividly though was when I was about 9 years old and got into a big fight with my sister.
At one point she had her arms around my throat and i was hitting her on the head (like wtf); my dad stormed from his chair towards us when he heard the noise in the hall, towering with rage he picked us both up and kicked us against our butts up the stairs. Even though the kick was really soft (I could sit after it without pain); the fact that my dad put his mental rage to physical expression in a way that made us utterly aware of the fact that what we where doing was wrong.
Didn't fight with her again untill I hit puberty!
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On October 01 2014 03:04 Schwopzi wrote:
I vaguely recall being spanked once; don't even remember what for. Didn't really make any impact whatsoever. All I recall from it is that my parents where all formal about it, like this is a big moment (knowing my parents, my dad felt I deserved a reprimande for what I did; but my mom stopped him and they came up with a "spanking" (i probably deserved physical punishment, my dad's pretty damn good at knowing when a line has been crossed))
the umpire strikes back.
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On October 01 2014 02:40 ain wrote:
I never had a 'formal' spanking, but earned a hand slap on the butt on more than one occasion.
This is what I consider "formal" spanking. I don't agree that other "instruments" should be used when spanking a child.
When I got in trouble, there were generally 2 steps:
1. Explain what I did wrong and why it's wrong and to not do it anymore.
if I continued doing something wrong,
2. I was sent to my room until my dad got home and he would spank me (open palm 2-4 slaps)
and even if I what I did happened in the morning and my dad didn't get home until evening, I got spanked. It reinforced the idea that regardless of the time that has past, I will not escape punishment.
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That shit's been illegal here since 1979.
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On October 02 2014 01:00 Ercster wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2014 02:40 ain wrote:
I never had a 'formal' spanking, but earned a hand slap on the butt on more than one occasion. This is what I consider "formal" spanking. I don't agree that other "instruments" should be used when spanking a child. When I got in trouble, there were generally 2 steps: 1. Explain what I did wrong and why it's wrong and to not do it anymore. if I continued doing something wrong, 2. I was sent to my room until my dad got home and he would spank me (open palm 2-4 slaps) and even if I what I did happened in the morning and my dad didn't get home until evening, I got spanked. It reinforced the idea that regardless of the time that has past, I will not escape punishment.
Huge improvement to the system of "OMG WTF must spank now *backhand*.
I was spanked when I knew I had done something wrong. If I legitimately did not know (and my parents were pretty good about knowing if I was lying) I was given an explanation and told not to do whatever it was. Seeing some of the things that people say, or even that my friends went through make me feel so fortunate for the way my parents raised me.
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Spanked with soap for foul language.
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Whoa, just spotted this thread and I'm quite shocked. I thought the majority of the developed nations' people would have overcome this :/
I can't see any benefit from spanking or slapping or punishing a child physically in general. I know many people who weren't spanked and they're all as good/bad at different things as anybody else. So my conclusion: in the end, spanking does nothing than hurt - and maybe not only physically.
The modern ways of parenting really proved this kind of punishments as useless many decades ago. Not only as useless but also often as harmful to the psyche and the child-parent-relationship.
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Got a face slap once and it was hard enough so that I got a nose bleed, but that´s all I ever got. Looked worse than it felt
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I always wonder if children like Avilo and Idra were spanked as they were kids.
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EPT
