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I think the necessity of spanking is an interesting discussion.
I have thought about how I would treat my children a lot. I think it depends on the children.
It's easy for people who don't have children or who have well behaved children to say that spanking is unnecessary, but I think that if you were raising a child who often was stubborn and unreasonable, you might find that you needed a more impressionable form of punishment to keep that child from repeating a crucial mistake.
And it's not just about "punishment" if you are a good parent. It's about protecting the child's interests.
I remember when I was a young boy, I was a pretty good kid in school generally, but one time to garner attention from the rest of my elementary school class, I proceeded to "pants" a mentally handicapped child in the class. I was too young to consider how cruel what I was doing was (this child had a very rough time at home and at school). I imagine how terrified my parents must have been that their boy would do something like this, that is so far against their beliefs and what they teach.
My parents could have tried to have a serious discussion about this with me, a 7 year old boy, but I was young and stubborn and overly energetic. That would be a lot of effort to try to reinforce something that I obviously already knew deep down, because when I committed this action it wasn't that I didn't know what I was doing was wrong, it was that I didn't care enough in comparison to the attention I could garner from my classmates.
My father spanked me repeatedly on the butt with a leather belt in response to this. It left a serious impression. I remember just feeling horrible and afraid of his response and disappointed in myself (even at that young age). After he did this, it reinforced something in me that helped me to question my actions in situations where I could mistreat someone else.
So, am I saying you should spank your kids? No. But I do think my father spanking me in this instance had a positive affect, and not all parents are behavior experts.
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Spanking with a leather belt isn't even spanking any more.I guess even in the US that would be considered child abuse, which again goes to show how often parents seem to cross the line between the two.
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Well it didnt injure me or even have any lasting effects so I don't really see why it would be considered abuse.
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Many kids may experience long lasting effects from it as a lot of people in this thread have pointed out, and I'm pretty sure that there are already a lot of forms of abuse that don't require somebody to be visually insured.
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Well I wasn't talking about just physical injury. I would think abuse would involve being injured physically or mentally/emotionally. But I was not injured mentally/emotionally either.
I didn't read the whole thread because it's long. There were actually people who complained about lasting effects from being spanked? (I am talking about being spanked, not being beaten).
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On September 28 2014 00:57 travis wrote:
Well I wasn't talking about just physical injury. I would think abuse would involve being injured physically or mentally/emotionally. But I was not injured mentally/emotionally either.
I didn't read the whole thread because it's long. There were actually people who complained about lasting effects from being spanked? (I am talking about being spanked, not being beaten).
The thing is, Nyxisto seems to believe there's no difference between spanking and beating.
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On September 28 2014 01:00 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2014 00:57 travis wrote:
Well I wasn't talking about just physical injury. I would think abuse would involve being injured physically or mentally/emotionally. But I was not injured mentally/emotionally either.
I didn't read the whole thread because it's long. There were actually people who complained about lasting effects from being spanked? (I am talking about being spanked, not being beaten). The thing is, Nyxisto seems to believe there's no difference between spanking and beating.
Well yes(because in most countries around here every form of corporal punishment is considered illegal and viewed as disgusting, so that's not too surprising) , but I thought that we could at least all agree on that using anything else than the open hand is definitely even by US standards a no-go.
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On September 28 2014 01:03 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2014 01:00 Millitron wrote:On September 28 2014 00:57 travis wrote:
Well I wasn't talking about just physical injury. I would think abuse would involve being injured physically or mentally/emotionally. But I was not injured mentally/emotionally either.
I didn't read the whole thread because it's long. There were actually people who complained about lasting effects from being spanked? (I am talking about being spanked, not being beaten). The thing is, Nyxisto seems to believe there's no difference between spanking and beating. Well yes, but I thought that we could at least all agree on that using anything else than the open hand is definitely even by US standards a no-go.
I think it depends on how you use it but I never recall being hit on the butt with a leather belt as even being particularly painful. I was a tough kid I guess, but I honestly don't think it was much different than an open hand.
Honestly I understand your viewpoint man, and when you hear "hit with leather belt" it could sound like I was getting beaten. But really I wasn't.
For the record, I think a stance of complete anti-violence is awesome. It just may make parenting very difficult with some children.
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United Kingdom7084 Posts
Call it a difference in the meaning of spanking. Where I am from it's not really a spanking if it doesn't really cause pain, it's more of a smacking.
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On September 28 2014 01:00 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2014 00:57 travis wrote:
Well I wasn't talking about just physical injury. I would think abuse would involve being injured physically or mentally/emotionally. But I was not injured mentally/emotionally either.
I didn't read the whole thread because it's long. There were actually people who complained about lasting effects from being spanked? (I am talking about being spanked, not being beaten). The thing is, Nyxisto seems to believe there's no difference between spanking and beating.
because there is none. or rather, the only difference is the intensity of the punishment, which makes every distiction between these two subjective and somewhat arbitrary.
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On September 28 2014 01:38 Paljas wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2014 01:00 Millitron wrote:On September 28 2014 00:57 travis wrote:
Well I wasn't talking about just physical injury. I would think abuse would involve being injured physically or mentally/emotionally. But I was not injured mentally/emotionally either.
I didn't read the whole thread because it's long. There were actually people who complained about lasting effects from being spanked? (I am talking about being spanked, not being beaten). The thing is, Nyxisto seems to believe there's no difference between spanking and beating. because there is none. or rather, the only difference is the intensity of the punishment, which makes every distiction between these two subjective and somewhat arbitrary.
Then by that argument all punishment is child abuse. A sternly worded lecture is emotional torture.
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United Kingdom7084 Posts
Go on then. Make that argument logically, rather then claiming that argument for him.
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On September 20 2014 14:07 omisa wrote:
The belt was the worst. Wooden spoon hurt like a bitch too.
Ack, wooden spoons sucked something fierce. I was never belted or paddled as a child, I think either one would be a little
much. My aunt used a flyswatter on her kids (and cats!). Pretty much harmless but they sting and make a lot noise too, makes it pretty effective. She was also not above slapping her boys when they got too big to intimidate and were being ornery. She told me she would get a chair to stand on to slap her oldest (she's like 4'11'' or 5' even and he's 6'4'' at least).
Drawing blood is way too much, it's supposed to be about pain and associating it with misconduct, not injury or satisfaction on the parent's part. The whole point of spanking your children is because they lack the cognitive capability to understand right from wrong when they are young until they learn it over time. Until then, associating pain with undesired behaviors is a good way to repress them; It doesn't even take physical striking once it's ingrained, just the threat of "Dad clobberin' ya" as Wally Cleaver put it can repress bad behavior. Adults are authority figures to children, and it helps express to the child that defiance is not to be tolerated as well. Doing nothing tells them there are no consequences to anything considered "bad" in society and you can see where that is headed when the kid grows up that way...
I'll throw it out there right now that I'm not a parent. Still, personally I think kids aren't spanked enough. I've seen enough in my own family to sway me. One of my cousins is a doting father to his little boy, I think it probably stems from the fact his wife cheated on him and left them both when the kid was only 3. He never strikes him or raises his voice, just takes his toys away and gives him time-outs. The kid is super clingy, possessive of anything he puts his hands on, and is frankly a little bastard. He hits people, including his father (the kid finds it amusing). He steals shit, breaks it simply because he feels he can do what he wants, and then throws it around (usually at other people). He freaks out and throws tantrums if any of these behaviors are stopped. His dad just grabs him and sits him in his lap and tells him to calm down (ineffectually) while the kid wails for the next 15 mins or so while he's captive. When he's free again he just starts it all over. I'm not saying that violence in this matter is the right path, and I'm not saying that maybe it's pathetic that his own father can't bring himself to curtail him. What I am saying, is that if that kid was spanked for doing these things, especially in the company of family at a holiday gathering, he'd probably do them a lot less instead of every time I've seen him for the past 5 years. Once he gets old enough to be socially aware there's the element of shame to act as a motivator against bad behavior too.
This other cousin of mine has a whole gaggle of kids from assorted girlfriends and a marriage or two. The only ones that mind are his stepchildren because their mother (his current wife and matriarch) spanks them and always has. They don't fear him even though I'm sure he was corporal with his own kids, they fear mom's reprisal. Pretty crazy considering him and his oldest son (they are so alike and both are just bastards).
Another cousin has a real momma's boy. He clings to her like a little monkey all the time. She openly talks about spanking him when he acts up and yet you never see it because you didn't have to. Her oldest sister did the same with her two girls and both of them are wonderful, sweet kids. Their mother did the same to all 3 of her daughters; I grew up the same way with a rather punishment gung-ho mom and fairly lenient dad and the only complaint either one would have I think is that I didn't get punished enough because I didn't do enough wrong things (For instance my mom always accused me of smoking from like 4th grade on but I never have other than to try that nasty shit). Most of my teenage headbutting with my mom came about over her wildly overreacting and trying to outlandishly punish me over little sticking points; it just made my dad think she was crazy lol.
I'm actually curious as to how other cultures in which spanking is not traditional effectively curtail misbehaving children when they are still young. Kids do what they want without a fear of reprisal present, and before they are emotionally formed, they can run the gamut from sweet to complete little fuckers.
On September 20 2014 16:00 Powerpill wrote:
But back on point. Basically, behaving to avoid punishment goes more in line with the spanking, but behaving because that is how you want and believe you should act, while trickier to accomplish, is something I think parents should strive to instill. A bit idealist perhaps, but very possible to accomplish. ^_^
The only way that works is if the child *wants* to model him/herself after his/her parents. That's not always the case, and you can't force it on a kid. It just leads to resentment if they are resistant. Some kids like to emulate a sibling, or other relative or even imaginary characters written up for TV. All you can do is try to set an example that you want them to follow and be quick to keep them form stepping into the wrong path.
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Wow I wasn't aware spanking was such a thing in the U.S. Crazy
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Cant really grasp why you should spank a child when you can raise a kid to be a good citizen without spanking.
My mom is a teacher and the children that are spanked at home behave waay worse than the childs that are not spanked. You can reason with children from a very young age.
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I remember there was a thread like this a few years ago on TL. Apparently there are lots of studies that suggest spanking is bad for your child. I don't think I'd spank my children if I ever became a parent, but until then I'm not going to judge the people who do. I feel like if you have to resort to spanking, then you've already done something wrong, but who am I to talk?
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Yeah, I've gotten the good old back hand across the face, and while they definitely didn't make me feel good, they were well deserved.
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Broke up with my ex girlfriend when she said she would hit our children if we ever get some. People who cannot even reason with children without resorting to violence are failures as human beings.
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On September 28 2014 03:09 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2014 01:38 Paljas wrote:On September 28 2014 01:00 Millitron wrote:On September 28 2014 00:57 travis wrote:
Well I wasn't talking about just physical injury. I would think abuse would involve being injured physically or mentally/emotionally. But I was not injured mentally/emotionally either.
I didn't read the whole thread because it's long. There were actually people who complained about lasting effects from being spanked? (I am talking about being spanked, not being beaten). The thing is, Nyxisto seems to believe there's no difference between spanking and beating. because there is none. or rather, the only difference is the intensity of the punishment, which makes every distiction between these two subjective and somewhat arbitrary. Then by that argument all punishment is child abuse. A sternly worded lecture is emotional torture.
Yes all punishment that involves beating a kid is child abuse.
It is solely an overreaction from the parent who wants to have a quick fix for the situation because he can't or doesn't want to deal with it in a different way.
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United States24751 Posts
On September 28 2014 22:29 Yuljan wrote:
Broke up with my ex girlfriend when she said she would hit our children if we ever get some. People who cannot even reason with children without resorting to violence are failures as human beings.
I can understand avoiding violence, but the way you call it 'reasoning with children' worries me. As much as you call violent parents failures as human beings, parents who try to reason with an illogical/emotional 5 year old will often find themselves failing as parents as well. Of course, there are other things besides violence and reasoning, like removal of privileges, but I don't consider that 'reasoning.'
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EPT
