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Chess discussion continues here |
On November 21 2013 22:29 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 22:19 Figgy wrote:
Most of these people asking questions are clearly very amateur and extremely rude. Asking how he is feeling after he has just pretty much lost the world championship?? How the fuck you think he feels?
The real moment I remember feeling shocked at was the question from the tweet from the English Grandmaster saying simply "End of an era..."Carlsen was very mature and professional in his response. He didn't give in to rude celebration in an almost guaranteed victory in the next three games. Gave a no-comment type of answer. Bravo. Someone slap the person that posed it, masking a "how do you feel after losing" by retreating behind "Nigel Short says you lost, what's your reaction." It's journalism and you see it all the time, but what a cowardly person.
The thing is he hasn't even 'lost' which makes that question inconceivable rude and disrespectful to both players. He just down what would be 3-0 in soccer with 10 minutes left to play... or something like that, lets not have the tennis-discussion again 
Edit: Clarifying I'm not putting anything on the sometimes controversial Short, I also think this game spells the end for Anand.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On November 21 2013 22:28 Acrofales wrote:
Ok, game was played while I was asleep. Just watched it back. Why was Nf1 the big blunder, rather than Rf4, which let Anand queen and check in the first place?
White's only plan is Rf4, he has to play it I guess
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On November 21 2013 22:39 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 22:28 Acrofales wrote:
Ok, game was played while I was asleep. Just watched it back. Why was Nf1 the big blunder, rather than Rf4, which let Anand queen and check in the first place? White's only plan is Rf4, he has to play it I guess
He could also have played 27. Ne2.
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Absolutely amazing game! I stayed up from 3 AM to the finish at 7:30 AM...I could feel the tension throughout the entire game. I am rooting for Magnus and what a calculation. Too bad Anand made that blunder, and you could see it in his face when he made that move.
So awesome!
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On November 21 2013 22:33 Arevall wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 22:29 Danglars wrote:On November 21 2013 22:19 Figgy wrote:
Most of these people asking questions are clearly very amateur and extremely rude. Asking how he is feeling after he has just pretty much lost the world championship?? How the fuck you think he feels?
The real moment I remember feeling shocked at was the question from the tweet from the English Grandmaster saying simply "End of an era..."Carlsen was very mature and professional in his response. He didn't give in to rude celebration in an almost guaranteed victory in the next three games. Gave a no-comment type of answer. Bravo. Someone slap the person that posed it, masking a "how do you feel after losing" by retreating behind "Nigel Short says you lost, what's your reaction." It's journalism and you see it all the time, but what a cowardly person. The thing is he hasn't even 'lost' which makes that question inconceivable rude and disrespectful to both players. He just down what would be 3-0 in soccer with 10 minutes left to play... or something like that, lets not have the tennis-discussion again Edit: Clarifying I'm not putting anything on the sometimes controversial Short, I also think this game spells the end for Anand.
That's exactly what I'm referring to, sorry if I didn't put it out there explicitly. He hasn't lost, he's gotta feel pretty down, and it's a rude and disrespectful question. It wasn't exactly the thought, but how the questioner couched it. Anastasia (is that the interview MC's name?) gets props for doing some interceding in her own right. It's just that cowardly contrast:
How do you feel right now, now that it's almost certain you will lose the world champion title to Carlsen? COMMENT: this might've even gotten some booing from those gathered
vs
Nigel Short just posted on twitter that it's the End of an Era, what is your reaction?
hey hey hey guys, I'm not really outright asking it, so don't blame me blame this guy. You asked the question, jerk.
Personally, I might've lost my temper had I been sitting next to the guy and maybe feeling a little tired. The man just played very sharp lines for a very long time, saw some phantoms of mating opportunities with threatened mates (most starkly visible when the queen advanced along the file, though of course they saw it long before), had exceedingly good chances of drawing should something go wrong, and blunders at the last dying second with a quick move. Have some respect!
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On November 21 2013 22:45 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 22:39 marvellosity wrote:On November 21 2013 22:28 Acrofales wrote:
Ok, game was played while I was asleep. Just watched it back. Why was Nf1 the big blunder, rather than Rf4, which let Anand queen and check in the first place? White's only plan is Rf4, he has to play it I guess He could also have played 27. Ne2.
But Rf4 was not a blunder, it would probably have been transformed into a pretty equal position after that, Carlsen explained what could have happened in the post game interview.
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On November 21 2013 22:52 Maenander wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 22:45 kwizach wrote:On November 21 2013 22:39 marvellosity wrote:On November 21 2013 22:28 Acrofales wrote:
Ok, game was played while I was asleep. Just watched it back. Why was Nf1 the big blunder, rather than Rf4, which let Anand queen and check in the first place? White's only plan is Rf4, he has to play it I guess He could also have played 27. Ne2. But Rf4 was not a blunder, it would probably have been transformed into a pretty equal position after that, Carlsen explained what could have happened in the post game interview.
Yes indeed, I was not saying that Rf4 was a blunder, simply that it was not forced
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What really puzzles me in what kind of situations Anand is playing inaccurate moves or even blunders. It's not like in any of the games he lost he was in deep trouble, today he was even pressing very hard.
I get that someone finally cracks after several hours of torture over the chessboard, but today he even was in the driver seat and blundered just out of thin air. That shouldn't happen that often by a player of his caliber.
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To move on from my facepalm at the tweet question from the interview, I'd like to inject this one from Nakamura's twitter:
Keep those attacks going, don't recapture with pawns gives white more and more dangerous attacks?
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20.axb4 was the preferred computer move, and strongly, if I remember correctly. (For what it's worth.)
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I think Anand played as well or even better than one could expect - until the blunder. Even Carlsen admitted that he feared a forced mate could be coming down the line.
In fact, in the variation without Anand's blunder, that Carlsen explained in the press conference, there are 2 or 3 points where only one move is left to save Black.
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Magnus was going over possible variations in the post-conference and he thought it was going to be a pretty even drawing position in the end, only after white played very forcing moves for black. It was so close, can't believe that blunder though. Absolutely soul crushing how that one blunder just put the final nail in the coffin over his WORLD CHAMPION TITLE. I would remember that move forever if I was him :S
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On November 21 2013 22:58 Danglars wrote:To move on from my facepalm at the tweet question from the interview, I'd like to inject this one from Nakamura's twitter: Keep those attacks going, don't recapture with pawns gives white more and more dangerous attacks?
I only just got back and haven't had the chance to look at the game, but when Carlsen's part of the game, it's usually best to take Naka's suggestions with a grain of salt. He's a great player of course, but I've seen him make quite a few suggestions, always in Carlsen's games, that are just outright refuted by the computer. f6 back in game 4 comes to mind. I think he likes to feel that he understands the position more deeply than Carlsen and his opponent and likes to imply he would've done better vs Carlsen in the same position.
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Instead of Queen to F4, how would black respond to Knight H5?
![[image loading]](http://www.chessvideos.tv/bimg/1vj1urav9lxh.png)
And I really like Tanya, she got such an attractive voice and humor.
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Nh5 would close off the position even more since the queen can't attack that h7 pawn or go up to the g7 square.
If black goes Nc7, its the same thing over again.
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From a quick look at it there's no clear refutation, but I don't see what purpose Nh5 is supposed to have. White wants to play f6 eventually (he can actually play it directly instead of Qf4) and exploit the weak dark squares around the king and the weak pawn on h7. Nxg7 type shots don't come close to woroking.
All Nh5 does is obstruct the h-file for the queen and rook and lose yet another tempo after the inevitable f6 g6. You'd probably answer that with Nf4, improving your knight's position somewhat, but where has your attack gone? You've wasted so much time that a mating attack is now a distant dream. In fact I just checked it on the computer and after Nh5 Nc7 f6 g6 Nf4 Bf5 the computer's first recommendation is Qb2...
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When I played back this game on ChessBase, I found the following:
26. h3 (instead of hasty 26. Qh6)
We are getting this position (Black to move):
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0xQcoEm.png)
Can Black defend this? White needs only four tempos to checkmate, and it seems like Black cannot counter by just pushing the b-pawn, because of Kh2 possibility and there's no more checks from the extra Queen when it's coming on board.
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Qa5 and I think black's counterplay comes too quickly. The crude h3 Qa5 Qh6 Qxc3 Rf4 is obviously a blunder (Qe3+) and if you start defending the c3 pawn, for example h3 Qa5 Ne2 you run into the same problem as in the game, black always has the Qe1 resource in time.
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+ Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 23:33 Archers_bane wrote:
Nh5 would close off the position even more since the queen can't attack that h7 pawn or go up to the g7 square.
If black goes Nc7, its the same thing over again.
On November 21 2013 23:38 Orome wrote:
From a quick look at it there's no clear refutation, but I don't see what purpose Nh5 is supposed to have. White wants to play f6 eventually (he can actually play it directly instead of Qf4) and exploit the weak dark squares around the king and the weak pawn on h7. Nxg7 type shots don't come close to woroking.
All Nh5 does is obstruct the h-file for the queen and rook and lose yet another tempo after the inevitable f6 g6. You'd probably answer that with Nf4, improving your knight's position somewhat, but where has your attack gone? You've wasted so much time that a mating attack is now a distant dream. In fact I just checked it on the computer and after Nh5 Nc7 f6 g6 Nf4 Bf5 the computer's first recommendation is Qb2...
And if white go Qf4 now then? Just curious because couldn't find an engine online to test.
![[image loading]](http://www.chessvideos.tv/bimg/2ln9rce3l4isk.png)
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
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EPT
