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On October 13 2013 11:44 Alex1Sun wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2013 07:37 Gorsameth wrote:On October 13 2013 07:27 Danglars wrote:Speaker John Boehner told House Republicans Saturday morning that his efforts to strike a deal with President Barack Obama are at a standstill.
There is no agreement, Boehner said in a room in the Capitol Saturday, and there are no negotiations between House Republicans and the White House, since Obama rejected the speaker’s effort to lift the debt ceiling for six weeks and reopen government while setting up a budget negotiating process.
With that, a familiar dynamic has resurfaced 12 days into the government shutdown and five days before Treasury says the nation runs out of borrowing authority: The pendulum has swung back to Senate Republicans, who now look more likely to cut a deal with Obama to end the first government shutdown since 1996, and avoid the first default on U.S. debt in history.
After the news that talks between Boehner and Obama have broken down, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) emerged on the floor to emphasize that the nation’s eyes are firmly fixed on the chamber. politicoBasically, Obama met with Boehner and other Congressional leaders and they talked. For a little bit, it looked like some kind of deal would be reached. Now, we know it didn't happen. I never got the idea a deal would be reached. Either the Republicans open the government or it stays close. Dem's have made it perfectly clear there not negotiating while the country is held hostage. Democrats always back down. I am almost certain that it will happen this time as well, i.e. the budget will be changed in such a way that GOP at least partially gets what they want, and Democrats get much less. Then Democrats will declare a victory over GOP, while in reality it will be a GOP victory. It has happened so many times recently that I would not be surprised if it happened once again.
Tell me a time in the past 2-4 years where the democrats have made significant concessions? They can't even pass a budget, and they got their tax hike. The republicans have achieved jack-all.
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On October 13 2013 12:04 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2013 11:44 Alex1Sun wrote:On October 13 2013 07:37 Gorsameth wrote:On October 13 2013 07:27 Danglars wrote:Speaker John Boehner told House Republicans Saturday morning that his efforts to strike a deal with President Barack Obama are at a standstill.
There is no agreement, Boehner said in a room in the Capitol Saturday, and there are no negotiations between House Republicans and the White House, since Obama rejected the speaker’s effort to lift the debt ceiling for six weeks and reopen government while setting up a budget negotiating process.
With that, a familiar dynamic has resurfaced 12 days into the government shutdown and five days before Treasury says the nation runs out of borrowing authority: The pendulum has swung back to Senate Republicans, who now look more likely to cut a deal with Obama to end the first government shutdown since 1996, and avoid the first default on U.S. debt in history.
After the news that talks between Boehner and Obama have broken down, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) emerged on the floor to emphasize that the nation’s eyes are firmly fixed on the chamber. politicoBasically, Obama met with Boehner and other Congressional leaders and they talked. For a little bit, it looked like some kind of deal would be reached. Now, we know it didn't happen. I never got the idea a deal would be reached. Either the Republicans open the government or it stays close. Dem's have made it perfectly clear there not negotiating while the country is held hostage. Democrats always back down. I am almost certain that it will happen this time as well, i.e. the budget will be changed in such a way that GOP at least partially gets what they want, and Democrats get much less. Then Democrats will declare a victory over GOP, while in reality it will be a GOP victory. It has happened so many times recently that I would not be surprised if it happened once again. Tell me a time in the past 2-4 years where the democrats have made significant concessions? They can't even pass a budget, and they got their tax hike. The republicans have achieved jack-all.
what tax hike?
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On October 13 2013 12:17 Roe wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2013 12:04 Introvert wrote:On October 13 2013 11:44 Alex1Sun wrote:On October 13 2013 07:37 Gorsameth wrote:On October 13 2013 07:27 Danglars wrote:Speaker John Boehner told House Republicans Saturday morning that his efforts to strike a deal with President Barack Obama are at a standstill.
There is no agreement, Boehner said in a room in the Capitol Saturday, and there are no negotiations between House Republicans and the White House, since Obama rejected the speaker’s effort to lift the debt ceiling for six weeks and reopen government while setting up a budget negotiating process.
With that, a familiar dynamic has resurfaced 12 days into the government shutdown and five days before Treasury says the nation runs out of borrowing authority: The pendulum has swung back to Senate Republicans, who now look more likely to cut a deal with Obama to end the first government shutdown since 1996, and avoid the first default on U.S. debt in history.
After the news that talks between Boehner and Obama have broken down, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) emerged on the floor to emphasize that the nation’s eyes are firmly fixed on the chamber. politicoBasically, Obama met with Boehner and other Congressional leaders and they talked. For a little bit, it looked like some kind of deal would be reached. Now, we know it didn't happen. I never got the idea a deal would be reached. Either the Republicans open the government or it stays close. Dem's have made it perfectly clear there not negotiating while the country is held hostage. Democrats always back down. I am almost certain that it will happen this time as well, i.e. the budget will be changed in such a way that GOP at least partially gets what they want, and Democrats get much less. Then Democrats will declare a victory over GOP, while in reality it will be a GOP victory. It has happened so many times recently that I would not be surprised if it happened once again. Tell me a time in the past 2-4 years where the democrats have made significant concessions? They can't even pass a budget, and they got their tax hike. The republicans have achieved jack-all. what tax hike?
You mean other than the medical device tax, tanning salons, medicare, the individual mandate "penalty" tax, and the numerous others ?
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On October 13 2013 12:17 Roe wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2013 12:04 Introvert wrote:On October 13 2013 11:44 Alex1Sun wrote:On October 13 2013 07:37 Gorsameth wrote:On October 13 2013 07:27 Danglars wrote:Speaker John Boehner told House Republicans Saturday morning that his efforts to strike a deal with President Barack Obama are at a standstill.
There is no agreement, Boehner said in a room in the Capitol Saturday, and there are no negotiations between House Republicans and the White House, since Obama rejected the speaker’s effort to lift the debt ceiling for six weeks and reopen government while setting up a budget negotiating process.
With that, a familiar dynamic has resurfaced 12 days into the government shutdown and five days before Treasury says the nation runs out of borrowing authority: The pendulum has swung back to Senate Republicans, who now look more likely to cut a deal with Obama to end the first government shutdown since 1996, and avoid the first default on U.S. debt in history.
After the news that talks between Boehner and Obama have broken down, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) emerged on the floor to emphasize that the nation’s eyes are firmly fixed on the chamber. politicoBasically, Obama met with Boehner and other Congressional leaders and they talked. For a little bit, it looked like some kind of deal would be reached. Now, we know it didn't happen. I never got the idea a deal would be reached. Either the Republicans open the government or it stays close. Dem's have made it perfectly clear there not negotiating while the country is held hostage. Democrats always back down. I am almost certain that it will happen this time as well, i.e. the budget will be changed in such a way that GOP at least partially gets what they want, and Democrats get much less. Then Democrats will declare a victory over GOP, while in reality it will be a GOP victory. It has happened so many times recently that I would not be surprised if it happened once again. Tell me a time in the past 2-4 years where the democrats have made significant concessions? They can't even pass a budget, and they got their tax hike. The republicans have achieved jack-all. what tax hike?
The expiration of the tax cuts. Republicans wanted them all cut, didn't happen.
And all the Obamacare taxes.
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On October 13 2013 12:21 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2013 12:17 Roe wrote:On October 13 2013 12:04 Introvert wrote:On October 13 2013 11:44 Alex1Sun wrote:On October 13 2013 07:37 Gorsameth wrote:On October 13 2013 07:27 Danglars wrote:Speaker John Boehner told House Republicans Saturday morning that his efforts to strike a deal with President Barack Obama are at a standstill.
There is no agreement, Boehner said in a room in the Capitol Saturday, and there are no negotiations between House Republicans and the White House, since Obama rejected the speaker’s effort to lift the debt ceiling for six weeks and reopen government while setting up a budget negotiating process.
With that, a familiar dynamic has resurfaced 12 days into the government shutdown and five days before Treasury says the nation runs out of borrowing authority: The pendulum has swung back to Senate Republicans, who now look more likely to cut a deal with Obama to end the first government shutdown since 1996, and avoid the first default on U.S. debt in history.
After the news that talks between Boehner and Obama have broken down, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) emerged on the floor to emphasize that the nation’s eyes are firmly fixed on the chamber. politicoBasically, Obama met with Boehner and other Congressional leaders and they talked. For a little bit, it looked like some kind of deal would be reached. Now, we know it didn't happen. I never got the idea a deal would be reached. Either the Republicans open the government or it stays close. Dem's have made it perfectly clear there not negotiating while the country is held hostage. Democrats always back down. I am almost certain that it will happen this time as well, i.e. the budget will be changed in such a way that GOP at least partially gets what they want, and Democrats get much less. Then Democrats will declare a victory over GOP, while in reality it will be a GOP victory. It has happened so many times recently that I would not be surprised if it happened once again. Tell me a time in the past 2-4 years where the democrats have made significant concessions? They can't even pass a budget, and they got their tax hike. The republicans have achieved jack-all. what tax hike? The expiration of the tax cuts. Republicans wanted them all cut, didn't happen. And all the Obamacare taxes.
Lovely, so GWB puts into place tax cuts, and the return to the normal rates before becomes a tax hike. Next they'll be calling the lowered overall military spending due to the winding down of the Afghanistan and Iraq conflicts a cut in military spending, and say that Obama is trying to weaken America.
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On October 13 2013 18:09 Funnytoss wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2013 12:21 Introvert wrote:On October 13 2013 12:17 Roe wrote:On October 13 2013 12:04 Introvert wrote:On October 13 2013 11:44 Alex1Sun wrote:On October 13 2013 07:37 Gorsameth wrote:On October 13 2013 07:27 Danglars wrote:Speaker John Boehner told House Republicans Saturday morning that his efforts to strike a deal with President Barack Obama are at a standstill.
There is no agreement, Boehner said in a room in the Capitol Saturday, and there are no negotiations between House Republicans and the White House, since Obama rejected the speaker’s effort to lift the debt ceiling for six weeks and reopen government while setting up a budget negotiating process.
With that, a familiar dynamic has resurfaced 12 days into the government shutdown and five days before Treasury says the nation runs out of borrowing authority: The pendulum has swung back to Senate Republicans, who now look more likely to cut a deal with Obama to end the first government shutdown since 1996, and avoid the first default on U.S. debt in history.
After the news that talks between Boehner and Obama have broken down, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) emerged on the floor to emphasize that the nation’s eyes are firmly fixed on the chamber. politicoBasically, Obama met with Boehner and other Congressional leaders and they talked. For a little bit, it looked like some kind of deal would be reached. Now, we know it didn't happen. I never got the idea a deal would be reached. Either the Republicans open the government or it stays close. Dem's have made it perfectly clear there not negotiating while the country is held hostage. Democrats always back down. I am almost certain that it will happen this time as well, i.e. the budget will be changed in such a way that GOP at least partially gets what they want, and Democrats get much less. Then Democrats will declare a victory over GOP, while in reality it will be a GOP victory. It has happened so many times recently that I would not be surprised if it happened once again. Tell me a time in the past 2-4 years where the democrats have made significant concessions? They can't even pass a budget, and they got their tax hike. The republicans have achieved jack-all. what tax hike? The expiration of the tax cuts. Republicans wanted them all cut, didn't happen. And all the Obamacare taxes. Lovely, so GWB puts into place tax cuts, and the return to the normal rates before becomes a tax hike. Next they'll be calling the lowered overall military spending due to the winding down of the Afghanistan and Iraq conflicts a cut in military spending, and say that Obama is trying to weaken America.
Let's not forget that Obama himself took credit for the military involvement cutbacks as him cutting government spending.
The expirations were a concession won from the spineless moderate wing of the Republican Party and democrats. The history is indeed one of tough compromise on conservative goals, and business as usual no-compromise-needed when it comes to the expansion of government spending and control.
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United States43737 Posts
On October 13 2013 19:54 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2013 18:09 Funnytoss wrote:On October 13 2013 12:21 Introvert wrote:On October 13 2013 12:17 Roe wrote:On October 13 2013 12:04 Introvert wrote:On October 13 2013 11:44 Alex1Sun wrote:On October 13 2013 07:37 Gorsameth wrote:On October 13 2013 07:27 Danglars wrote:Speaker John Boehner told House Republicans Saturday morning that his efforts to strike a deal with President Barack Obama are at a standstill.
There is no agreement, Boehner said in a room in the Capitol Saturday, and there are no negotiations between House Republicans and the White House, since Obama rejected the speaker’s effort to lift the debt ceiling for six weeks and reopen government while setting up a budget negotiating process.
With that, a familiar dynamic has resurfaced 12 days into the government shutdown and five days before Treasury says the nation runs out of borrowing authority: The pendulum has swung back to Senate Republicans, who now look more likely to cut a deal with Obama to end the first government shutdown since 1996, and avoid the first default on U.S. debt in history.
After the news that talks between Boehner and Obama have broken down, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) emerged on the floor to emphasize that the nation’s eyes are firmly fixed on the chamber. politicoBasically, Obama met with Boehner and other Congressional leaders and they talked. For a little bit, it looked like some kind of deal would be reached. Now, we know it didn't happen. I never got the idea a deal would be reached. Either the Republicans open the government or it stays close. Dem's have made it perfectly clear there not negotiating while the country is held hostage. Democrats always back down. I am almost certain that it will happen this time as well, i.e. the budget will be changed in such a way that GOP at least partially gets what they want, and Democrats get much less. Then Democrats will declare a victory over GOP, while in reality it will be a GOP victory. It has happened so many times recently that I would not be surprised if it happened once again. Tell me a time in the past 2-4 years where the democrats have made significant concessions? They can't even pass a budget, and they got their tax hike. The republicans have achieved jack-all. what tax hike? The expiration of the tax cuts. Republicans wanted them all cut, didn't happen. And all the Obamacare taxes. Lovely, so GWB puts into place tax cuts, and the return to the normal rates before becomes a tax hike. Next they'll be calling the lowered overall military spending due to the winding down of the Afghanistan and Iraq conflicts a cut in military spending, and say that Obama is trying to weaken America. Let's not forget that Obama himself took credit for the military involvement cutbacks as him cutting government spending. The expirations were a concession won from the spineless moderate wing of the Republican Party and democrats. The history is indeed one of tough compromise on conservative goals, and business as usual no-compromise-needed when it comes to the expansion of government spending and control.
Then why no public healthcare provision? The left haven't gotten what they want with Obamacare.
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On October 14 2013 01:18 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2013 19:54 Danglars wrote:On October 13 2013 18:09 Funnytoss wrote:On October 13 2013 12:21 Introvert wrote:On October 13 2013 12:17 Roe wrote:On October 13 2013 12:04 Introvert wrote:On October 13 2013 11:44 Alex1Sun wrote:On October 13 2013 07:37 Gorsameth wrote:On October 13 2013 07:27 Danglars wrote:Speaker John Boehner told House Republicans Saturday morning that his efforts to strike a deal with President Barack Obama are at a standstill.
There is no agreement, Boehner said in a room in the Capitol Saturday, and there are no negotiations between House Republicans and the White House, since Obama rejected the speaker’s effort to lift the debt ceiling for six weeks and reopen government while setting up a budget negotiating process.
With that, a familiar dynamic has resurfaced 12 days into the government shutdown and five days before Treasury says the nation runs out of borrowing authority: The pendulum has swung back to Senate Republicans, who now look more likely to cut a deal with Obama to end the first government shutdown since 1996, and avoid the first default on U.S. debt in history.
After the news that talks between Boehner and Obama have broken down, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) emerged on the floor to emphasize that the nation’s eyes are firmly fixed on the chamber. politicoBasically, Obama met with Boehner and other Congressional leaders and they talked. For a little bit, it looked like some kind of deal would be reached. Now, we know it didn't happen. I never got the idea a deal would be reached. Either the Republicans open the government or it stays close. Dem's have made it perfectly clear there not negotiating while the country is held hostage. Democrats always back down. I am almost certain that it will happen this time as well, i.e. the budget will be changed in such a way that GOP at least partially gets what they want, and Democrats get much less. Then Democrats will declare a victory over GOP, while in reality it will be a GOP victory. It has happened so many times recently that I would not be surprised if it happened once again. Tell me a time in the past 2-4 years where the democrats have made significant concessions? They can't even pass a budget, and they got their tax hike. The republicans have achieved jack-all. what tax hike? The expiration of the tax cuts. Republicans wanted them all cut, didn't happen. And all the Obamacare taxes. Lovely, so GWB puts into place tax cuts, and the return to the normal rates before becomes a tax hike. Next they'll be calling the lowered overall military spending due to the winding down of the Afghanistan and Iraq conflicts a cut in military spending, and say that Obama is trying to weaken America. Let's not forget that Obama himself took credit for the military involvement cutbacks as him cutting government spending. The expirations were a concession won from the spineless moderate wing of the Republican Party and democrats. The history is indeed one of tough compromise on conservative goals, and business as usual no-compromise-needed when it comes to the expansion of government spending and control. Then why no public healthcare provision? The left haven't gotten what they want with Obamacare.
The left have gotten exactly what they want: a guaranteed path to single payer. It will just take longer than they want.
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United States24761 Posts
On October 14 2013 01:38 Nick Drake wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2013 01:18 KwarK wrote:On October 13 2013 19:54 Danglars wrote:On October 13 2013 18:09 Funnytoss wrote:On October 13 2013 12:21 Introvert wrote:On October 13 2013 12:17 Roe wrote:On October 13 2013 12:04 Introvert wrote:On October 13 2013 11:44 Alex1Sun wrote:On October 13 2013 07:37 Gorsameth wrote:On October 13 2013 07:27 Danglars wrote:[quote] politicoBasically, Obama met with Boehner and other Congressional leaders and they talked. For a little bit, it looked like some kind of deal would be reached. Now, we know it didn't happen. I never got the idea a deal would be reached. Either the Republicans open the government or it stays close. Dem's have made it perfectly clear there not negotiating while the country is held hostage. Democrats always back down. I am almost certain that it will happen this time as well, i.e. the budget will be changed in such a way that GOP at least partially gets what they want, and Democrats get much less. Then Democrats will declare a victory over GOP, while in reality it will be a GOP victory. It has happened so many times recently that I would not be surprised if it happened once again. Tell me a time in the past 2-4 years where the democrats have made significant concessions? They can't even pass a budget, and they got their tax hike. The republicans have achieved jack-all. what tax hike? The expiration of the tax cuts. Republicans wanted them all cut, didn't happen. And all the Obamacare taxes. Lovely, so GWB puts into place tax cuts, and the return to the normal rates before becomes a tax hike. Next they'll be calling the lowered overall military spending due to the winding down of the Afghanistan and Iraq conflicts a cut in military spending, and say that Obama is trying to weaken America. Let's not forget that Obama himself took credit for the military involvement cutbacks as him cutting government spending. The expirations were a concession won from the spineless moderate wing of the Republican Party and democrats. The history is indeed one of tough compromise on conservative goals, and business as usual no-compromise-needed when it comes to the expansion of government spending and control. Then why no public healthcare provision? The left haven't gotten what they want with Obamacare. The left have gotten exactly what they want: a guaranteed path to single payer. It will just take longer than they want.
I don't see it, or pretty much anything else, as a guaranteed path. In partisan politics no paths are guaranteed.
The path of not defaulting is not even guaranteed, as ridiculous as that should seem right now.
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United States7483 Posts
On October 14 2013 02:00 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2013 01:38 Nick Drake wrote:On October 14 2013 01:18 KwarK wrote:On October 13 2013 19:54 Danglars wrote:On October 13 2013 18:09 Funnytoss wrote:On October 13 2013 12:21 Introvert wrote:On October 13 2013 12:17 Roe wrote:On October 13 2013 12:04 Introvert wrote:On October 13 2013 11:44 Alex1Sun wrote:On October 13 2013 07:37 Gorsameth wrote:
[quote]
I never got the idea a deal would be reached. Either the Republicans open the government or it stays close. Dem's have made it perfectly clear there not negotiating while the country is held hostage. Democrats always back down. I am almost certain that it will happen this time as well, i.e. the budget will be changed in such a way that GOP at least partially gets what they want, and Democrats get much less. Then Democrats will declare a victory over GOP, while in reality it will be a GOP victory. It has happened so many times recently that I would not be surprised if it happened once again. Tell me a time in the past 2-4 years where the democrats have made significant concessions? They can't even pass a budget, and they got their tax hike. The republicans have achieved jack-all. what tax hike? The expiration of the tax cuts. Republicans wanted them all cut, didn't happen. And all the Obamacare taxes. Lovely, so GWB puts into place tax cuts, and the return to the normal rates before becomes a tax hike. Next they'll be calling the lowered overall military spending due to the winding down of the Afghanistan and Iraq conflicts a cut in military spending, and say that Obama is trying to weaken America. Let's not forget that Obama himself took credit for the military involvement cutbacks as him cutting government spending. The expirations were a concession won from the spineless moderate wing of the Republican Party and democrats. The history is indeed one of tough compromise on conservative goals, and business as usual no-compromise-needed when it comes to the expansion of government spending and control. Then why no public healthcare provision? The left haven't gotten what they want with Obamacare. The left have gotten exactly what they want: a guaranteed path to single payer. It will just take longer than they want. I don't see it, or pretty much anything else, as a guaranteed path. In partisan politics no paths are guaranteed. The path of not defaulting is not even guaranteed, as ridiculous as that should seem right now.
I definitely don't see the ACA as a guaranteed path to a single payer system. The most likely path for it as far as I can see is "Look how much this sucks, healthcare sucks, let's get rid of it", although I suppose it might turn into "Man this ACA thing sucks, let's go back to the drawing board, single payer system time."
But yeah, guaranteed my ass.
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On October 13 2013 12:21 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2013 12:17 Roe wrote:On October 13 2013 12:04 Introvert wrote:On October 13 2013 11:44 Alex1Sun wrote:On October 13 2013 07:37 Gorsameth wrote:On October 13 2013 07:27 Danglars wrote:Speaker John Boehner told House Republicans Saturday morning that his efforts to strike a deal with President Barack Obama are at a standstill.
There is no agreement, Boehner said in a room in the Capitol Saturday, and there are no negotiations between House Republicans and the White House, since Obama rejected the speaker’s effort to lift the debt ceiling for six weeks and reopen government while setting up a budget negotiating process.
With that, a familiar dynamic has resurfaced 12 days into the government shutdown and five days before Treasury says the nation runs out of borrowing authority: The pendulum has swung back to Senate Republicans, who now look more likely to cut a deal with Obama to end the first government shutdown since 1996, and avoid the first default on U.S. debt in history.
After the news that talks between Boehner and Obama have broken down, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) emerged on the floor to emphasize that the nation’s eyes are firmly fixed on the chamber. politicoBasically, Obama met with Boehner and other Congressional leaders and they talked. For a little bit, it looked like some kind of deal would be reached. Now, we know it didn't happen. I never got the idea a deal would be reached. Either the Republicans open the government or it stays close. Dem's have made it perfectly clear there not negotiating while the country is held hostage. Democrats always back down. I am almost certain that it will happen this time as well, i.e. the budget will be changed in such a way that GOP at least partially gets what they want, and Democrats get much less. Then Democrats will declare a victory over GOP, while in reality it will be a GOP victory. It has happened so many times recently that I would not be surprised if it happened once again. Tell me a time in the past 2-4 years where the democrats have made significant concessions? They can't even pass a budget, and they got their tax hike. The republicans have achieved jack-all. what tax hike? The expiration of the tax cuts. Republicans wanted them all cut, didn't happen. And all the Obamacare taxes.
Expirations of tax cuts are now tax hikes?
I hate to be this cliche, but this is Orwellian thinking.
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On October 14 2013 02:11 Roe wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2013 12:21 Introvert wrote:On October 13 2013 12:17 Roe wrote:On October 13 2013 12:04 Introvert wrote:On October 13 2013 11:44 Alex1Sun wrote:On October 13 2013 07:37 Gorsameth wrote:On October 13 2013 07:27 Danglars wrote:Speaker John Boehner told House Republicans Saturday morning that his efforts to strike a deal with President Barack Obama are at a standstill.
There is no agreement, Boehner said in a room in the Capitol Saturday, and there are no negotiations between House Republicans and the White House, since Obama rejected the speaker’s effort to lift the debt ceiling for six weeks and reopen government while setting up a budget negotiating process.
With that, a familiar dynamic has resurfaced 12 days into the government shutdown and five days before Treasury says the nation runs out of borrowing authority: The pendulum has swung back to Senate Republicans, who now look more likely to cut a deal with Obama to end the first government shutdown since 1996, and avoid the first default on U.S. debt in history.
After the news that talks between Boehner and Obama have broken down, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) emerged on the floor to emphasize that the nation’s eyes are firmly fixed on the chamber. politicoBasically, Obama met with Boehner and other Congressional leaders and they talked. For a little bit, it looked like some kind of deal would be reached. Now, we know it didn't happen. I never got the idea a deal would be reached. Either the Republicans open the government or it stays close. Dem's have made it perfectly clear there not negotiating while the country is held hostage. Democrats always back down. I am almost certain that it will happen this time as well, i.e. the budget will be changed in such a way that GOP at least partially gets what they want, and Democrats get much less. Then Democrats will declare a victory over GOP, while in reality it will be a GOP victory. It has happened so many times recently that I would not be surprised if it happened once again. Tell me a time in the past 2-4 years where the democrats have made significant concessions? They can't even pass a budget, and they got their tax hike. The republicans have achieved jack-all. what tax hike? The expiration of the tax cuts. Republicans wanted them all cut, didn't happen. And all the Obamacare taxes. Expirations of tax cuts are now tax hikes? I hate to be this cliche, but this is Orwellian thinking.
I'm looking up the source, but someone mentioned that Pres. Obama himself called it a tax hike to appease his supporters.
Edit: okay, so it was a half and half measure: http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/09/politics/obama-fiscal-cliff/
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On October 13 2013 19:54 Danglars wrote:
The history is indeed one of tough compromise on conservative goals, and business as usual no-compromise-needed when it comes to the expansion of government spending and control.
I don't see all that many Republicans crying for a cut in military spending (still making up a massive part of government spending), or raising too much of a fuss over mass surveillance and ruthless government prosecution of whistleblowers. They've talked more about national parks and war monuments than any of those issues.
Maybe you should consider the fact that what you see as "conservative goals" are tough to compromise on because they undermine or defy the most basic values of the civilized world. See, when you stand strongly against the provision of affordable healthcare, social care or education for your people, you should expect to stand in isolation and minority.
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On October 14 2013 02:08 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2013 02:00 micronesia wrote:On October 14 2013 01:38 Nick Drake wrote:On October 14 2013 01:18 KwarK wrote:On October 13 2013 19:54 Danglars wrote:On October 13 2013 18:09 Funnytoss wrote:On October 13 2013 12:21 Introvert wrote:On October 13 2013 12:17 Roe wrote:On October 13 2013 12:04 Introvert wrote:On October 13 2013 11:44 Alex1Sun wrote:
[quote]
Democrats always back down. I am almost certain that it will happen this time as well, i.e. the budget will be changed in such a way that GOP at least partially gets what they want, and Democrats get much less. Then Democrats will declare a victory over GOP, while in reality it will be a GOP victory. It has happened so many times recently that I would not be surprised if it happened once again. Tell me a time in the past 2-4 years where the democrats have made significant concessions? They can't even pass a budget, and they got their tax hike. The republicans have achieved jack-all. what tax hike? The expiration of the tax cuts. Republicans wanted them all cut, didn't happen. And all the Obamacare taxes. Lovely, so GWB puts into place tax cuts, and the return to the normal rates before becomes a tax hike. Next they'll be calling the lowered overall military spending due to the winding down of the Afghanistan and Iraq conflicts a cut in military spending, and say that Obama is trying to weaken America. Let's not forget that Obama himself took credit for the military involvement cutbacks as him cutting government spending. The expirations were a concession won from the spineless moderate wing of the Republican Party and democrats. The history is indeed one of tough compromise on conservative goals, and business as usual no-compromise-needed when it comes to the expansion of government spending and control. Then why no public healthcare provision? The left haven't gotten what they want with Obamacare. The left have gotten exactly what they want: a guaranteed path to single payer. It will just take longer than they want. I don't see it, or pretty much anything else, as a guaranteed path. In partisan politics no paths are guaranteed. The path of not defaulting is not even guaranteed, as ridiculous as that should seem right now. I definitely don't see the ACA as a guaranteed path to a single payer system. The most likely path for it as far as I can see is "Look how much this sucks, healthcare sucks, let's get rid of it", although I suppose it might turn into "Man this ACA thing sucks, let's go back to the drawing board, single payer system time." But yeah, guaranteed my ass.
What are the consequences of Obamacare?
Rising premiums for one. That was obviously predictable beforehand. More people dropped from their employer insurance, which was also predictable. Then you have the people who choose to be uninsured getting fined, or people who are borderline broke who can't afford the plans or the fines. And they are looking for an escape hatch too. In other words, more people in need of government single payer, more who are dependent.
It's a brilliant strategy aimed at making single payer inevitable.
On October 14 2013 02:11 Roe wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2013 12:21 Introvert wrote:On October 13 2013 12:17 Roe wrote:On October 13 2013 12:04 Introvert wrote:On October 13 2013 11:44 Alex1Sun wrote:On October 13 2013 07:37 Gorsameth wrote:On October 13 2013 07:27 Danglars wrote:Speaker John Boehner told House Republicans Saturday morning that his efforts to strike a deal with President Barack Obama are at a standstill.
There is no agreement, Boehner said in a room in the Capitol Saturday, and there are no negotiations between House Republicans and the White House, since Obama rejected the speaker’s effort to lift the debt ceiling for six weeks and reopen government while setting up a budget negotiating process.
With that, a familiar dynamic has resurfaced 12 days into the government shutdown and five days before Treasury says the nation runs out of borrowing authority: The pendulum has swung back to Senate Republicans, who now look more likely to cut a deal with Obama to end the first government shutdown since 1996, and avoid the first default on U.S. debt in history.
After the news that talks between Boehner and Obama have broken down, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) emerged on the floor to emphasize that the nation’s eyes are firmly fixed on the chamber. politicoBasically, Obama met with Boehner and other Congressional leaders and they talked. For a little bit, it looked like some kind of deal would be reached. Now, we know it didn't happen. I never got the idea a deal would be reached. Either the Republicans open the government or it stays close. Dem's have made it perfectly clear there not negotiating while the country is held hostage. Democrats always back down. I am almost certain that it will happen this time as well, i.e. the budget will be changed in such a way that GOP at least partially gets what they want, and Democrats get much less. Then Democrats will declare a victory over GOP, while in reality it will be a GOP victory. It has happened so many times recently that I would not be surprised if it happened once again. Tell me a time in the past 2-4 years where the democrats have made significant concessions? They can't even pass a budget, and they got their tax hike. The republicans have achieved jack-all. what tax hike? The expiration of the tax cuts. Republicans wanted them all cut, didn't happen. And all the Obamacare taxes. Expirations of tax cuts are now tax hikes? I hate to be this cliche, but this is Orwellian thinking.
How many years does a tax rate have to be in place before it's considered the tax rate?
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Has to be non-temporary that's all. When it's a limited time tax cut that means the regular tax rate is the one without the tax cuts. To say returning to the normal tax rate is a tax hike would be more spin than the O'Reilly factor.
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United States43737 Posts
The inevitable path to single payer healthcare is not in place due to Obamacare but rather in place because of the catastrophic failure of American society to provide its people with decent healthcare. Your system was so incredibly shit before Obamacare, especially when compared with single payer systems around the world, that it could not have remained indefinitely. So far you've only made it part of the way but it's not Obamacare that made single payer inevitable, rather it is reality with its proven bias towards single payer being better that made it inevitable. The only reason it seems to have taken this long seems to be an inherent American fear of success in this regard.
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You know it isn't that KwarK. A love and adulation for private interest and "the free market" runs rampant through this country, and purging it from areas like healthcare is going to be accordingly painful.
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United States43737 Posts
On October 14 2013 04:58 farvacola wrote:
You know it isn't that KwarK. A love and adulation for private interest and "the free market" runs rampant through this country, and purging it from areas like healthcare is going to be accordingly painful.
If people are motivated entirely by private interest then why can you not go "this is how much of your money goes towards paying for your healthcare at the moment and this is how much more money you would have if you got rid of it" and then let them work it out for themselves?
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Because that operation involves the GOVERNMENT, and nothing could be more scary, right? 
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EPT
