EPTAny private agency can get corrupted by the industry it is supposed to watch just as easily as government agencies.
US government shutdown - Page 87
| Forum Index > General Forum |
|
Adila
United States874 Posts
Any private agency can get corrupted by the industry it is supposed to watch just as easily as government agencies. | ||
|
ZeaL.
United States5955 Posts
House Republican leaders said Thursday they will offer a temporary increase in the federal debt ceiling in exchange for negotiations with President Obama on longer-term “pressing problems,” but they stopped short of agreeing to end a government shutdown now in its 10th day. In a news briefing following a closed-door meeting of House Republicans to present a plan to raise the debt limit for six weeks, House Speaker John A. Boehner (R-Ohio) said, “What we want to do is offer the president today the ability to move a temporary increase in the debt ceiling.” He described the offer, to be presented to Obama in a White House meeting with House Republicans on Thursday afternoon, as a “good-faith effort on our part to move halfway to what he’s demanded in order to have these conversations begin.” Obama is “happy” that House Republicans agree a federal debt default is not an option, but he would prefer a longer extension of the debt limit, White House spokesman Jay Carney said. Boehner did not immediately provide specifics of the plan. But the speaker made clear that House Republicans are not agreeing to Obama’s demand that they pass legislation to fund the government with no partisan strings attached, thereby ending the first government shutdown in 17 years. ... Source Things are starting to move now... | ||
|
RvB
Netherlands6294 Posts
On October 11 2013 03:35 m4inbrain wrote: The US has a nominal tax of 35%. Effectively, you don't. It's a case of "look dat number is higher than yours, therefore im right" - it's not. You leave half the important stuff in the dark, i guess willingly, to support your argument. Let me cite something as well: "NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- U.S. corporations pay one of the highest tax rates in the world. There's little debate about that. Still, some argue the difference in the overall tax burden for U.S. companies isn't nearly as great it appears. In fact, the United States collects less corporate tax relative to the overall economy than almost any other country in the world. And that's a more objective measure of tax burden. Different accounting rules around the world means what's counted as income in one country isn't counted in another -- that makes comparisons of tax rates misleading. U.S. corporate tax collections totaled only 1.7% of GDP in 2009, the most recent year for which complete data is available, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. On that measure, the United States had the third lowest corporate tax burden, behind France and Germany. The worldwide average was 2.8%." "U.S. businesses have another edge over countries with lower tax rates: They don't pay a Value Added Tax or VAT, a type of sales tax. All other developed nations raise a significant part of their tax revenue through VATs, but it is not included in the comparisons of corporate tax collections." So please, if you compare "burdens" on corporations, don't just look at the direct taxations, because that would be stupid. I don't know how VAT works in other countries but in NL businesses only pay VAT over their sales. They can claim all the VAT back from the Dutch IRS from everything they bought. | ||
|
Gorsameth
Netherlands22472 Posts
Kinda hoping Obama shows the deal they made with Boehner before the shutdown and tell him to take it or leave it. | ||
|
supereddie
Netherlands151 Posts
Sure, the president can present a budget to congress, but those are mere suggestions that congress can choose to throw out in it's entirety (or in parts, whatever) and write their own, unbalance budget. Furthermore, not increasing the debt ceiling is not a limit on future work, but instead not paying the bills for work that has already been done (for example: bridge maintenance). This is very bad for the US economy as a lot of companies rely on the government to pay them for their work - they have already made the necessary expenses for said work but now won't get payed making them go bankrupt. The result is that companies no longer trust the government in paying it's bills and don't want to do work for the government anymore... | ||
|
Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
On October 11 2013 05:53 supereddie wrote: That whole debt ceiling debacle has nothing to do with the president, as it is congress who is responsible for the unbalanced budget (more expenditures than income). The president however is required by law to do what is in the budget, so in order to cover all expenses he is forced to borrow more money. Sure, the president can present a budget to congress, but those are mere suggestions that congress can choose to throw out in it's entirety (or in parts, whatever) and write their own, unbalance budget. Furthermore, not increasing the debt ceiling is not a limit on future work, but instead not paying the bills for work that has already been done (for example: bridge maintenance). This is very bad for the US economy as a lot of companies rely on the government to pay them for their work - they have already made the necessary expenses for said work but now won't get payed making them go bankrupt. The result is that companies no longer trust the government in paying it's bills and don't want to do work for the government anymore... Someone has watched cpggrey recently edit: Not that you're wrong. | ||
|
Tianx
United States1196 Posts
For example, imagine that you're the US and there is a total of $100 in the entire US circulation. You borrow $10 from someone else at a 10% interest rate. You then print out $11 and pay it back the following year. You borrowed $10/$100 or 10% of the money in circulation, and then paid back $11/$111, or 9.9% of the money in circulation, allowing you to pay back the debt for less real value than what you borrowed for despite the "10% interest rate" it was labelled as thanks to inflation. Since you're the US government, you can directly control the printing and flow of money so that it always works this way. However if we default, the interest rate will skyrocket into unpayable amounts that to even dream of paying off our interest, we'd need to inflate the USD so that it'd become nearly worthless. This is of course on top of the global economic meltdown that would occur completely aside from this. | ||
|
Derez
Netherlands6068 Posts
On October 11 2013 05:50 Gorsameth wrote: Very mixed feelings on the latest Republican "gambit". On one side its good they wanne lift the shutdown and then talk on the other side there pushing it forward 6 weeks so they can shut it down again and blame the Democrats again for not bargaining instead of having the fight resolve around the ACA. Kinda hoping Obama shows the deal they made with Boehner before the shutdown and tell him to take it or leave it. They're not lifting the shutdown, all they are offering is a debt limit extension. The shutdown continues either way. | ||
|
Gorsameth
Netherlands22472 Posts
On October 11 2013 06:32 Derez wrote: They're not lifting the shutdown, all they are offering is a debt limit extension. The shutdown continues either way. Ah... well then yeah... stuff it where the sun don't shine. | ||
|
Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
On October 11 2013 06:24 Tianx wrote: Anyone who thinks that the massive US debt is a reason to not increase the debt ceiling needs to realize that right now, the US is effectively borrowing at a negative interest rate. The US debt is not like your household debt. For example, imagine that you're the US and there is a total of $100 in the entire US circulation. You borrow $10 from someone else at a 10% interest rate. You then print out $11 and pay it back the following year. You borrowed $10/$100 or 10% of the money in circulation, and then paid back $11/$111, or 9.9% of the money in circulation, allowing you to pay back the debt for less real value than what you borrowed for despite the "10% interest rate" it was labelled as thanks to inflation. Since you're the US government, you can directly control the printing and flow of money so that it always works this way. However if we default, the interest rate will skyrocket into unpayable amounts that to even dream of paying off our interest, we'd need to inflate the USD so that it'd become nearly worthless. This is of course on top of the global economic meltdown that would occur completely aside from this. I'm having trouble following this explanation. If there is 111 dollars total in circulation then the dollar is worth less then when it was 100 dollars, right? | ||
|
Tianx
United States1196 Posts
On October 11 2013 06:40 Clarity_nl wrote: I'm having trouble following this explanation. If there is 111 dollars total in circulation then the dollar is worth less then when it was 100 dollars, right? Yes. That's how inflation works, and is why the government's not bothered by carrying however many trillion dollars of debt we're in most of the time. It only works because government bonds have such little interest on them and people (read: China) are willing to buy them. | ||
|
Derez
Netherlands6068 Posts
On October 11 2013 06:34 Gorsameth wrote: Ah... well then yeah... stuff it where the sun don't shine. Nah its a good thing. It seperates the debt ceiling debate from the shutdown, and they can remain shut down for as long as they want without global economic crisis as a result. It also decreases the leverage republicans hold, which was very little to begin with. Republicans continue to set their hair on fire to prove they're ideologically 'pure' with the primary voters while they lose the rest of the country. Best thing we can hope for is that the repub moderates take the caucus back in a week or two and that we get a 2016 independent tea party candidate. | ||
|
LuckyFool
United States9015 Posts
what. the. fuck. those 2% gains we saw in the stock market today, yeah you can kiss that goodbye tomorrow. wall street be getting trolled hard. | ||
|
Hrrrrm
United States2081 Posts
On October 11 2013 07:18 LuckyFool wrote: so after an hour and a half meeting Boehner just slipped out the side entrance of the white house without speaking to reporters. And 10 minutes later it breaks that Obama rejected short term debt ceiling deal. what. the. fuck. those 2% gains we saw in the stock market today, yeah you can kiss that goodbye tomorrow. Thanks for nothing Obama! | ||
|
Adila
United States874 Posts
| ||
|
hypercube
Hungary2735 Posts
On October 11 2013 07:18 LuckyFool wrote: so after an hour and a half meeting Boehner just slipped out the side entrance of the white house without speaking to reporters. And 10 minutes later it breaks that Obama rejected short term debt ceiling deal. what. the. fuck. those 2% gains we saw in the stock market today, yeah you can kiss that goodbye tomorrow. wall street be getting trolled hard. Not if you sold before the end of the day, LOL. | ||
|
LuckyFool
United States9015 Posts
@Adila The White House said they were happy with the Republicans debt ceiling deal before Boehner went into that meeting. If Obama was really interested in preventing a default he would have at least worked out a temporary deal for that, instead I'm sure he said he would only accept it if they also immediately reopen the government. and people are still saying it's the Republicans holding the country hostage right now...lol | ||
|
GreenHorizons
United States24139 Posts
On October 11 2013 07:27 Adila wrote: Yeah, totally Obama's fault that the Republican joke of a plan keeps the government shut down for the next 6 weeks for "negotiations" just in time for to repeat the debt ceiling debacle. I think if we can learn anything from this clusterfuck of an attempt to 'negotiate' from Republicans is that we desperately need an informed electorate. The only reason the ridiculous strategies and rhetoric work is a voting public that can't tell the shit from the shinola. The American Experiment of having a country ran by it's people has been shown to need an educated public not just one that can be 'lead' in the 'right' direction. We're not going to fix the inclinations of polititians any time soon but we can change their motivations by holding them accountable. However, we can only hold them accountable if we as a people have a damn clue what it is they are doing and how it gets done. | ||
|
Unentschieden
Germany1471 Posts
| ||
|
Lixler
United States265 Posts
On October 11 2013 06:24 Tianx wrote: Anyone who thinks that the massive US debt is a reason to not increase the debt ceiling needs to realize that right now, the US is effectively borrowing at a negative interest rate. The US debt is not like your household debt. For example, imagine that you're the US and there is a total of $100 in the entire US circulation. You borrow $10 from someone else at a 10% interest rate. You then print out $11 and pay it back the following year. You borrowed $10/$100 or 10% of the money in circulation, and then paid back $11/$111, or 9.9% of the money in circulation, allowing you to pay back the debt for less real value than what you borrowed for despite the "10% interest rate" it was labelled as thanks to inflation. Since you're the US government, you can directly control the printing and flow of money so that it always works this way. However if we default, the interest rate will skyrocket into unpayable amounts that to even dream of paying off our interest, we'd need to inflate the USD so that it'd become nearly worthless. This is of course on top of the global economic meltdown that would occur completely aside from this. do you really think the only way the total amount of USD in circulation increases is by the government printing money? | ||
| ||
