DBZ Power Level List (and discussions) - Page 5

On September 23 2013 06:39 blade55555 wrote:


haha except that SSJ3 was = to buu where gohan smashed his face

On September 23 2013 08:48 eshlow wrote:



Plus, if you look at the fights between the characters:

Vegito > Super Buu "4" (Mystic Gohan, Trunks, Goten, Piccolo) > Super Buu "3" (fused Gotenks & Piccolo) > Mystic Gohan > Super Buu "2" (unfused Gotenks & Piccolo) > SSJ3 Gotenks > Buff Buu (Kid Buu + South Kaioushin) > Super Buu > SJ Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku (dead) > SSJ 3 Goku (alive) > Kid Buu = Evil Buu > Fat Buu (Buff Buu + Dai Kaioushin) > Mr. Buu

Anyway... this takes me back, lol

On September 23 2013 09:21 Black Gun wrote:

lol, this just shows what a bullshit the buu saga actually was. in fact, it was one single fight against buu for like 100 episodes. probably the most ridiculous and drawn out fight in any anime or manga ever.


but i have one question: if i remember correctly, mystic gohan once turned ssj at the kai world, but never used his ssj form in his fight against buu. do we have any estimate how strong he would have been in ssj form?

On September 23 2013 08:31 CruelZeratul wrote:
As someone earlier in this thread mentioned: I also don't quite get the power and speed scaling. Pretty much in the beginning Vegeta just wipes a whole planet from the universe without any effort (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xnqtg0bte6w). At the end of the series every little energy attack should at least kill the earth, if not the whole solar system outright, but it doens't for some reason. Another example: on Namek a full power punch causes people to fly hundrets of meters through solid rock, so later on they should go through the whole earth at least.
Same with speed, on Namek speed seems to be the highest throughout the entire series.

Aside from that, how does full power Gohan lose all of his power and becomes so weak again? And why could he become so strong in the first place? Is the human/saiyajinmix better then pure saiyans after all, or what is the requirement that a Kai can make someone that strong? Wouldn't it be a good idea to get Goku those powers aswell?

And @RyLai: I don't get the Potora fusion formula: Vegito with C=1 gets 3.3 quintillion base
Vegito with C = 100,000) gets 33 trillion base, jet the formula is C(AxB), so with higher C the numbers should be higher. Or should the formula be (AxB) / C (or just C be a number between 0 and 1)?
Aside from that , shouldn't 55 millionen * 60 million be be 3,3*e^15, so Vegito's base strength should be quadrillion, not quintillion?

On September 23 2013 08:33 Olinimmm wrote:
Disagree with your base saiyan numbers for Buu Saga. 60 mil is way too low, no way they are half as strong as Frieza.

On September 23 2013 08:39 JustPassingBy wrote:
I don't think that power levels are bullshit, but rather that the official power levels are bullshit (starting Namek).

I like to believe that Goku's natural power level at most 25k as he arrived on Namek, and that he could only fight the Ginyu squad they way he did due to the Kaioken. That explains why Ginyu was unable to mobilize a greater power than 23k while he was in Goku's (a little bit exhausted) body.

Even though apparently the doubling of powerlevel was a misstranslation, I'd say that Frieza's power level was around 0.53m/1.1m/2.5m/5.5m. His final form's natural powerlevel definitely not exceeding 6m.

When Goku recovered, he shouldn't have had more than 50k, which means he shouldn't have more than 600k fighting Frieza with a Kx10. But that is okay, since when Frieza was fighting casually, say at most 20% (1.1m), he was still so outmatched that Frieza wanted to fight without both hands to make it more interesting for him.

edit: I'm sure if you continue with these values you won't reach absurd values in the quintillion and such.

On September 23 2013 08:48 eshlow wrote:

Pretty much

Mystic Gohan is all of Gohan's unlocked potential.... which Goku even states that Human/Saiyan hybrids have more than pure Saiyans.

Mystic Gohan is the strongest unfused character from the canon manga

Plus, if you look at the fights between the characters:

Vegito > Super Buu "4" (Mystic Gohan, Trunks, Goten, Piccolo) > Super Buu "3" (fused Gotenks & Piccolo) > Mystic Gohan > Super Buu "2" (unfused Gotenks & Piccolo) > SSJ3 Gotenks > Buff Buu (Kid Buu + South Kaioushin) > Super Buu > SJ Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku (dead) > SSJ 3 Goku (alive) > Kid Buu = Evil Buu > Fat Buu (Buff Buu + Dai Kaioushin) > Mr. Buu

Anyway... this takes me back, lol

On September 23 2013 09:26 eshlow wrote:


I didn't watch the anime... just read the manga.

It's ironic because after all of that it was just Kid Buu and SSJ3 Goku at the end who were some of the weakest characters in that arc.

I do not recall Mystic Gohan going SSJ though it's been a while since I read it.

Mystic Gohan is all of Gohan's potential. So if he went SSJ in Mystic form it wouldn't do anything because he can't power up... no potential left to unlock.

On September 23 2013 09:35 Wampaibist wrote:
It'd be fun to do fighting capabilities power too lol (knowingly impossible task)

For example trunks powered up more than vegeta, during the cell games, but cell explained that his speed went down and was therefore much weaker.

On September 23 2013 08:08 Dazed_Spy wrote:
Except Mystic Gohan tore apart Super buu and held his own against Super buu+sjj3 gotenks+Piccolo, and Goku was just marginally stronger in sjj3 than kid buu--- who was mentioned to be numerous times, weaker though more threatening [for indiscernible reasons] than super buu.

This is why covering all the stats is pointless. Its fiction and as a result simply falls apart from plot holes, misstatements and forgetfulness. For example, Piccolo is referred to be as 'strong as a super sayan' during the android saga before he fused with the old fart. Yet, for him to have covered the distance between what he was, and some base largely untrained super sayan, is astronomical. It would mean that Piccolo for no reason whatsoever suddenly started training and gaining hundreds of thousands of ki daily, whereas Goku and the other Sayans, in base form, were drastically slower. Or else they'd of been triple his strength, something directly contradicted by evidence and stated fact.

On September 23 2013 10:59 Maxd11 wrote:
Why are all these characters fighting anyway?

On September 23 2013 10:30 RyLai wrote:


Maybe Piccolo's training was just straight up more efficient and could only be done by warrior-type Namekians? (Or in Piccolo's case, the most talented Namekian of some super strong clan.)

I mean, Piccolo is still significantly stronger than any base Saiyan except Gotenks (who is supposed to be stronger than a SS2 in base form), but he doesn't compare to any of the top 3 in Super Saiyan form after the Cell Saga (I can't put Piccolo as being anywhere near Perfect Cell, though I can easily put him above Kaioshin because Kami's unease and respect held Piccolo back from using his full abilities).

[B]
Here's my rebuttal: Billis sizes up Goku and says "I don't believe you could've beaten Frieza. That must mean going Super Saiyan powers you up". Goku in base form (post Buu saga) isn't comparable in battle to Frieza. This movie is considered cannon because apparently AT had a lot to do with it, and it makes my list more accurate, and it gives us a good range of power levels to go by, instead of simply stating Goku's base power level is infinity to the power of 20 million because there's nothing to refute it.

On September 23 2013 06:45 crazyweasel wrote:
wow this thread . numbers really, even in the manga and anime POWER LEVEL becomes an obsolete concept (at the moment they stop using scouter, they don't keep track of it all they sense is khi/chi w/e u wanna call it)? number are so vague you could simply make a kind of ladder to translate their power level or Chi size.

goku>buu>gohan>vegeta> and so on.

On September 23 2013 11:08 Dazed_Spy wrote:
After the cell saga the show becomes retarded, and they raped Piccolo's character. But just to focus on the main point: Why in the hell would Piccolo's method be so much more effiecient? And why wasnt it before the advent of ssj? For example. Goku was stronger than Piccolo before he went SSJ. But for the show to make sense, Piccolo simply out trained every single sayan and surpassed their base power by a drastic margin, from a huge deficit, from the freiza to the android saga. Maybe he even retains that for a while after, we dont really know and things become murky. But that kinda of dramatic increase is just a huge plot hole. Goku would of just copied what Piccolo was doing if it was so much better [he surely would share it, they train to protect the planet afterall]. And, more importantly, Sayans are meant to be a 'warrior race', Piccolo's basically a plant. So again, why can he totally totally TOTALLY out pace base sayans in training? Its ridiculous.

On September 23 2013 11:29 Olinimmm wrote:

I know about the line from BoG, but in my opinion Goku was suppressed. There's simply too much in the original manga that supports base saiyans>>>>>frieza that it's the only conclusion to make. There's 4 examples I have in mind to prove it.
1. Goten and trunks vs 18. Goten and trunks fight close to evenly with 18 even with the might mask costume on, if they were weaker than Frieza then 18 could oneshot them.
2. All the saiyans agree on the no super saiyan rule for the tournament, they know that Piccolo is coming, and yet still expect to win. If they were weaker than Frieza then they would have no hope of defeating Piccolo in base.
3. Supreme kai can oneshot Frieza, he was pissing his pants at the thought of fighting Yakon, who base Goku was near equal with.
4. If you're going to count Battle of Gods as canon you might as well count YO son goku and his friends return. In the movie, Tarble states that Abo and Cado have become equal to Frieza, Goku states that he was not much of an opponent in hindsight and says they would be a good match for the boys. Goten and Trunks proceed to fight them equally in base.

All this is much more than 1 statement that can easily be attributed to Goku being suppressed, which happened in YO son goku as well.

On September 23 2013 11:51 RyLai wrote:


1) Now you know why the Buu Saga is the least liked saga for hardcore DBZ fans.
2) Piccolo uses the split technique (whatever it's called). So he can constantly train with someone of equal strength, and probably reap twice the benefits (that second part is a guess, probably not true). The Saiyans NEVER train with each other with the exception of Goku and Gohan, who for that period have shown the greatest growth rate in all of DBZ aside from anyone named Piccolo. And Goku started off training Gohan to basically be as strong as him. So now it doesn't seem as awkward for Piccolo to have more efficient training methods now does it?
3) Piccolo would likely not share his training methods with Goku if he can avoid it. His goal is STILL to be the strongest of them all, even if world domination is still no longer part of his aims. But the fact is, even if he told Goku to use the split form technique, would Goku do it? No, cause he can't!



1) If 18 1-shots them, she might get disqualified for killing someone. Also, she didn't know it was Goten and Trunks until they turned Super Saiyan. They're very likely weaker than Frieza at that point if you do go by that Yo Son Goku special. I mean, when Trunks was in the gravity room with Vegeta doing 300g, he could barely move, which is roughly what Vegeta would've done when he first went crazy on the gravity training, so Trunks should be around that point, and probably a little less, which means less than 2.5 million.
2) Vegeta runs his mouth a lot. I also thought over this scenario quite a bit and chalked it down to either he didn't know Piccolo was competing or he just ran his mouth off (Gohan knows Piccolo is competing, and he talked to Piccolo AFTER talking to Trunks and Vegeta). However, he HAD to know 18 was competing, because she was in the plane with him. As a result, I just conclude that Vegeta was running his arrogant mouth without keeping it in check, as usual. Vegeta may be an intelligent fighter, but he's beyond cocky and sometimes forgets how strong his opponent is or how strong they could be.
3) Yakon is over 5x the strength of Frieza. To one-shot a guy, you just need to be around 2x their strength. Yakon can more than likely likely 1-shot Frieza as well. Also, base Goku is not on par with Yakon. It's likely Yakon was playing around with him, since he seems to be the type to play with his food when you take into consideration him eating Goku's light emissions in his SS form.
4) Battle of the Gods had a fairly heavy involvement from AT. AT designed the SS God look, and apparently fought vehemently for it according to DBZ wiki. I have no idea how much involvement the Goku and Friends special had from AT, but it is known that AT was fairly active in the making of the 14th movie. I'd expect a God of the caliber of Billis to at least be able to reasonably size up a surpressed Saiyan within reason. Ginyu did it, why not Billis?

On September 23 2013 08:08 Dazed_Spy wrote:
Except Mystic Gohan tore apart Super buu and held his own against Super buu+sjj3 gotenks+Piccolo, and Goku was just marginally stronger in sjj3 than kid buu--- who was mentioned to be numerous times, weaker though more threatening [for indiscernible reasons] than super buu.

On September 23 2013 12:34 B1nary wrote:
It's all Freiza's fault for getting all the power levels super-inflated. When he was fighting Goku, he said "I'm only using 1% of my power" (or did that get mis-translated in the dub?) At that point, he was already at >1 million, which sets the baseline SSJ Goku to be 100 million.

If Ultimate Gohan was so strong, why couldn't he (or even Gotenks for that matter) have fought Kid Buu at the end instead of Goku/Vegeta?