EPTDBZ Power Level List (and discussions) - Page 2
| Forum Index > General Forum |
|
Lucumo
6850 Posts
| ||
|
TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
| ||
|
SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
On September 23 2013 05:57 TheRabidDeer wrote: I never finished DBZ (goten/trunks annoyed the HELL out of me), did Vegito ever go SSJ and did he need to? If he really is quintillions at base he overshadowed everybody by a mile. IIRC he easily beat Buu, not sure if he had to go SSJ, and then destroyed the earrings. So it is basically is a really dumb form that just gave them a quick win needed for the plot and then they found an excuse not to use it again. Let's look at what a quintillion really is: 1 000 000 000 000 000 000 vs a Billion 1 000 000 000 It's a really big number. | ||
|
Black Gun
Germany4482 Posts
its a very interesting thread nonetheless, thank you! i think, however, that the major reason for the twisted numbers towards the end is the multiplicative nature of the potara formula. yes, i know that it was basically said to be like that in the series, but it still doesnt make any sense. even in the lowest possible setting, a base version vegito would have stood at 33 vs 19,5 against super buu, so that the fight would have had to be much more onesided than actually shown. | ||
|
Zdrastochye
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
On September 23 2013 06:01 Black Gun wrote: i think it is generally accepted that the introduction of ssj was one of the biggest mistakes in the whole series. it immediately turned all non-saiyan characters into useless sidekicks and started a power level spiral upwards with new ssj-tiers coming up pretty much every saga. its a very interesting thread nonetheless, thank you! i think, however, that the major reason for the twisted numbers towards the end is the multiplicative nature of the potara formula. yes, i know that it was basically said to be like that in the series, but it still doesnt make any sense. even in the lowest possible setting, a base version vegito would have stood at 33 vs 19,5 against super buu, so that the fight would have had to be much more onesided than actually shown. It could have just been SSJ and that's it. There was no need to increase SSJ from there, they just did cause everyone loves watching them power up. | ||
|
On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
If we base it on a constant scale against the original power levels it seems to favor the former... | ||
|
RyLai
United States477 Posts
On September 23 2013 05:22 JinDesu wrote: No GT  ?Some of the formatting was confusing. For example, you list Vegito twice, using quintillion and quadrillion - but I think the quadrillion one is correct because 1000 trillion = 1 quadrillion, but 10 quadrillion != 1 quintillion. So just a little unclear there. GT is non-cannon/non-official. Also, GT has absolutely no legitimate information to really guess at any of the values with. I would if I could. I doubt that anyone in GT beaks the quadrillion mark other than Omega Shenron and SS4 Gogeta. I list Vegito twice, cause the first one uses C=1 in the formula C(AxB) (that is the actual formula for Potara Fusion, we just don't know what C is other than it's a variable based on the compatibility of the 2 people being fused). Look at the multipliers section. It might interest you a bit. The second listing has C=10,000 I think (off the top of my head), which brings him more in line with Super Buu without completely killing him beyond what he NEEDS to be able to do. On September 23 2013 05:36 CruelZeratul wrote: Isn't he called Vegetto, when Vegeta und Goku fuse with those ear rings (instead of Vegito)? And why did you leave out Gogeta who should be the strongest SSJ at least (perhaps strongest figure in the whole franchise?), what would his values be? I like what you did here though! Even though the numbers get hilarious pretty fast. I think after they kill Freeza it gets nuts, but before that I liked this system. Do you mean SSJ4 when you write Super Saiyan God? There are so many translations, if you understand who is being referenced, I'm happy. Gogeta has no information to base off of, but if I were to guess, 4000(55x2) = 440,000 million = 440 trillion in base form. 22 quadrillion in SS 44 quadrillion in SS2 176 quadrillion in SS3 (This is using the values he should approximately be at during the Fusion Reborn movie; he only went as far as SS but he's assumed to be capable of SS2 and likely SS3, I have no numbers/comparisons with which to calculate his SS4 form in GT) While we're on movie characters: Broly in his first appearance should be about 2.8 billion (so around 2.5-3 billion, which ever end you prefer to lean on at the end of this paragraph). You may ask why he's weaker than Gohan, and here's my argument: Broly takes down a ton of Super Saiyans, but he doesn't 1 shot them and he loses to SS Goku. Cell spawns a bunch of Cell Jrs (6 or 7), each of which were STRONGER than the aforementioned Super Saiyans. What did SS2 Gohan do to those little tykes? Yeah... He... one... shot... every... last... one of them... Gohan's feat is more impressive, ergo SS2 Gohan is superior. As for Gohan losing/struggling to him later on, I don't remember if Gohan was SS2 at the time, but Gohan was weaker than his teen self and Broly had the Saiyan Zenkai boost (surviving death mechanism which was abused to hell in the Frieza Arc). And as someone else mentioned, SS God is SS God. It's a part of the most recent movie (Battle of Gods, literal translation being God and God), which was released this month on DVD and Blu-Ray (and is already subbed online)! It is far superior to SS4 in terms of what it did to Goku's power level. If you look at the math I did at the bottom, you'll see the multiplier for it is in the millions mark at least. On September 23 2013 05:40 marconi wrote: SS4 Gogeta was proly the strongest in all the series, but he's from DBGT so... SS4 Vegito would DESTROY SS4 Gogeta without contest. Depending on what then power level the weaker of Vegeta and Goku was at the end of GT, SS3 Vegito might stiill destroy SS4 Gogeta (depending on which value of C you use, C=1 Vegito would WRECK ass probably just at SS2), even taking into account the 10xSS3 multiplier that some people use for SS4 (I don't use it cause I don't count GT, though the number doesn't sound bad). On September 23 2013 05:42 SKC wrote: If the math he used is correct, and the earrings multiply their power while the dance adds them, that may not be the case. But power levels just get silly at that point. Far before it, actually. SEG states that "Potara fusion is more multiplication than addition". Fusion dance wasn't mentioned, but it's stated in the manga (and anime) that Potara fusion is stronger than Fusion dance. The fact is, Potara fusion IS a multiplication of their powers. The problem is, we don't know what value of C is used to bring those numbers down to the normal range, though it's very likely it varies based on the 2 people being fused (otherwise Kibitoshin would be the strongest character in the history of DBZ by far, instead of a side character). And the reason the power levels get silly is because of 2 factors: the SS multiplier being 50x, and the Fusion creating a base Saiyan with the powers above that of a SS2 (Gotenks>SS2 Majin Vegeta). So, what do you get when you take a SS2 and give them a 50x multiplier on top of that, and the enemy villian STILL has to be stronger? Numbers get damn silly. Toriyama could've easily avoided this if he didn't create Kaioken x10 and Kaioken x20 (which forced SS to be a higher number from the original 10x he was imagining). Also, he could've just settled for base Gotenks being stronger than base Goku, but no... He had to be stronger than freakin SS2 Vegeta, who is 100x base Goku. =.= Unfortunately/fortunately, the math is correct. :/ | ||
|
SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
On September 23 2013 06:11 On_Slaught wrote: Can somebody put these power numbers into a meaningful definition? For example, what does 3.3 Quintilian power actually let you do? Can you literally blink a galaxy out of existence at this point? Or do you just punch really hard... If we base it on a constant scale against the original power levels it seems to favor the former... I honestly believe it is much closer to the former. It got to a point where it is pretty silly to talk about what they can do unless we are talking about fighting each other. They all should easily be able to destroy planets and it is surprising (or a plot hole, you could say) they don't do it every time they fight. | ||
|
Black Gun
Germany4482 Posts
On September 23 2013 06:11 On_Slaught wrote: Can somebody put these power numbers into a meaningful definition? For example, what does 3.3 Quintilian power actually let you do? Can you literally blink a galaxy out of existence at this point? Or do you just punch really hard... If we base it on a constant scale against the original power levels it seems to favor the former... i remember the scene were goku and vegeta have saved their kids and friends and removed them from the interior of super buu. buu transforms into kid buu, who is listed at a power level of about 24 billion. kid buu then quickly and almost effortlessly creates an energy ball that destroys the whole planet. so if someone with a power level of 24 billion can wipe out one planet in seconds, he could probably destroy half a galaxy at once if he really tried. (well... actually not if we use real world astronomical dimensions, but with the interstellar distances shown in movies and television it would be possible.) | ||
|
On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
| ||
|
SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
On September 23 2013 06:18 On_Slaught wrote: At those levels just the force of one of their punches, regardless of whether it hits, would at the very least destroy every life form on the continent, if not the whole planet. You really don't want to apply physics to DBZ. It's far worse than Superman. | ||
|
phyre112
United States3090 Posts
On September 23 2013 06:16 Black Gun wrote: i remember the scene were goku and vegeta have saved their kids and friends and removed them from the interior of super buu. buu transforms into kid buu, who is listed at a power level of about 24 billion. kid buu then quickly and almost effortlessly creates an energy ball that destroys the whole planet. so if someone with a power level of 24 billion can wipe out one planet in seconds, he could probably destroy half a galaxy at once if he really tried. (well... actually not if we use real world astronomical dimensions, but with the interstellar distances shown in movies and television it would be possible.) Frieza was capable of destroying planets on a whim (did it to the saiyan homeworld) without even transforming - so roughly 500,000. Using that as the standard for comparison, someone with a power level in the billions.... I'm not so sure it matters if we're using real life dimensions or movie standards. | ||
|
TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
On September 23 2013 06:00 SKC wrote: IIRC he easily beat Buu, not sure if he had to go SSJ, and then destroyed the earrings. So it is basically is a really dumb form that just gave them a quick win needed for the plot and then they found an excuse not to use it again. Let's look at what a quintillion really is: 1 000 000 000 000 000 000 vs a Billion 1 000 000 000 It's a really big number. Went and watched the first bit with vegito... yea it looks pretty one sided. But still, quintillion? That is literally a million times stronger than buu. | ||
|
Cheap0
United States540 Posts
Goku's power level at the end of the Frieza Saga is listed as... + Show Spoiler + Goku: 3,000,000 -Kaioken x10: 30,000,000 -Kaioken x20: 60,000,000 -Super Saiyan: 150,000,000 Also, Frieza... Frieza: 120,000,000 Then in the Trunks Saga, we've got... + Show Spoiler + Frieza: 120 million Trunks: 2.7 million -Surpressed: 5 (only known power level post Frieza Saga) -Super Saiyan: 135 million Goku: 3.3 million -Super Saiyan: 165 million My problem with this is that final form Frieza vs Goku does result in a lengthy fight, even if it is somewhat one-sided, Goku has to work for the win (that's the 80% difference listed in the OP). Then, when you advance to the Trunks Saga, Trunks, who's power level is listed as 135 million compared to Goku's 150 million at the end of the Frieza Saga, completely annihilates Frieza, who's still sitting at 120 million. It's not even a fight. If I recall correctly, Frieza's actually supposed to be stronger because of his new mechanical parts (I'm not sure about this, but I thought he said something about it). Even if that's not the case though, that balance doesn't really make sense. The difference is only 15 million (Frieza is 88.8% of Trunks), and Trunks is weaker than Goku at the end of Frieza according to this ranking. Then, when Trunks tests Goku later on, Goku at 165 million is able to deflect all of Trunks blows with a single finger, even though their powers only differ by 30 million (Trunks is 81.8% of Goku). | ||
|
Gary Oak
Canada2381 Posts
That said, I still really love DBZ. | ||
|
RyLai
United States477 Posts
On September 23 2013 06:11 On_Slaught wrote: Can somebody put these power numbers into a meaningful definition? For example, what does 3.3 Quintilian power actually let you do? Can you literally blink a galaxy out of existence at this point? Or do you just punch really hard... If we base it on a constant scale against the original power levels it seems to favor the former... On September 23 2013 06:18 SKC wrote: You really don't want to apply physics to DBZ. It's far worse than Superman. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8329561/1/ Someone already did! LOL (Well, not really, just using storyline statements to make calculations) The fact is though, his math is well off (though he did that to be on the safe side, cause well... He had no hard numbers to work with). 3000 Kili is closer to 3 billion (I doubt the numbers convert this cleanly, but I doubt it's too far off, given how some of the numbers need to be to make sense up until that point). 300 kilis was the value necessary to destroy the Earth (I think the actual statement was to destroy a planet). That's 300 million. He got 15 million. So multiply all the numbers he has by 20 (or 2 and tag on a 0), and you're good. How many 0s is in a quintillion? Quadrillion+a set. 3.3 quintilian lets you blow up our Sun, VY Canis Majoris, Pistol Star, R136a1. You're about a factor of 13 off of destroying a supermassive black hole. Maybe if they trained a bit and went SS4. :O Someone wanna check my math? Did it in my head and may have counted the 0s wrong (SO MANY 0s). These are numbers to 1-shot an object in space without a coreshot (in the case of planets or anything with a core, I don't study astronomy or anything in space). I think they already took into account the average powerup when committing to an energy attack. | ||
|
blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On September 23 2013 05:20 Pretty Aluminum wrote: ssj 3 goku is by far the strongest at the end of dbz. Anyone who claims Mystic gohan is stronger is instantly stupid. haha except that SSJ3 was = to buu where gohan smashed his face  | ||
|
MoonfireSpam
United Kingdom1153 Posts
Power levels always seem a bit wierd since although its like "fighting potential", I'm sure there's been a few instances where people of lesser power can just expend all their power in one go and potentially kill people more "powerful". I guess it's a bit like Joules vs Watts. As per any discussion like this: EVERYONE EXCEPT ME IS WRONG!!!!!11!1!!1111!!!11111oneoneone | ||
|
RyLai
United States477 Posts
On September 23 2013 06:34 Cheap0 wrote: Ok, I have a problem with this... Goku's power level at the end of the Frieza Saga is listed as... + Show Spoiler + Goku: 3,000,000 -Kaioken x10: 30,000,000 -Kaioken x20: 60,000,000 -Super Saiyan: 150,000,000 Also, Frieza... Frieza: 120,000,000 Then in the Trunks Saga, we've got... + Show Spoiler + Frieza: 120 million Trunks: 2.7 million -Surpressed: 5 (only known power level post Frieza Saga) -Super Saiyan: 135 million Goku: 3.3 million -Super Saiyan: 165 million My problem with this is that final form Frieza vs Goku does result in a lengthy fight, even if it is somewhat one-sided, Goku has to work for the win (that's the 80% difference listed in the OP). Then, when you advance to the Trunks Saga, Trunks, who's power level is listed as 135 million compared to Goku's 150 million at the end of the Frieza Saga, completely annihilates Frieza, who's still sitting at 120 million. It's not even a fight. If I recall correctly, Frieza's actually supposed to be stronger because of his new mechanical parts (I'm not sure about this, but I thought he said something about it). Even if that's not the case though, that balance doesn't really make sense. The difference is only 15 million (Frieza is 88.8% of Trunks), and Trunks is weaker than Goku at the end of Frieza according to this ranking. Then, when Trunks tests Goku later on, Goku at 165 million is able to deflect all of Trunks blows with a single finger, even though their powers only differ by 30 million (Trunks is 81.8% of Goku). I admit... I had some bias here to keep numbers from inflating (didn't realize how little it'd matter later on with the numbers getting absurd in the Buu Saga). The thing with Trunks vs Frieza, Frieza never really took it too seriously and was mentally shaken up by Trunks. Trunks had a go for the kill mentallity after he stopped 3 of Frieza's attacks. Basically, if you are stronger than someone and catch them completely by surprise like Trunks basically did with his Burning Attack->Finishing Slash combo, you're bound to kill them, even with a marginal difference in strength. Granted, it helps to have a sword. On September 23 2013 06:24 phyre112 wrote: Frieza was capable of destroying planets on a whim (did it to the saiyan homeworld) without even transforming - so roughly 500,000. Using that as the standard for comparison, someone with a power level in the billions.... I'm not so sure it matters if we're using real life dimensions or movie standards. Keep in mind, Frieza always went for coreshots, which guaranteed destruction as long as his attack touched the core and caused instability in the planet. I've posted a link with calculations for non-coreshots. To convert it into the (more-or-less) correct numbers, multiply his power level values by 20 or multiply the kilis section by 1 million. On September 23 2013 06:28 TheRabidDeer wrote: Went and watched the first bit with vegito... yea it looks pretty one sided. But still, quintillion? That is literally a million times stronger than buu. Yes, it's an absurdly big number, that's why I did the math twice with 2 fusion constants. One took the literal meaning of "you multiply them together" and the other used a value of C in C(AxB)=Fusion Power Level to get something more realistic, though we never see Vegito get pushed, so we don't truly know the full capabilities of his power. We have an idea of Gogeta's capabilities by just using the same formula I derived from Gotenks' relative strength compared to Goten and Trunks. | ||
|
crazyweasel
607 Posts
. numbers really, even in the manga and anime POWER LEVEL becomes an obsolete concept (at the moment they stop using scouter, they don't keep track of it all they sense is khi/chi w/e u wanna call it)? number are so vague you could simply make a kind of ladder to translate their power level or Chi size.goku>buu>gohan>vegeta> and so on. | ||
| ||
