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On September 27 2013 04:54 Dazed_Spy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 00:33 JustPassingBy wrote:On September 26 2013 16:55 Foblos wrote:
I'm not super up to date on DBZ lore but can you explain why Gohan became such a bitch in the Buu saga? I understand that he wasn't training hardcore like previous but it just never made sense to me how he could be literally the only savior of earth and then be a weak pansy a few years later. Well, strength deteriorates with time if you do not train your full strength. Also he is probably out of training when it comes to fighting in general. And he isn't that weak of a pansy, I think I remember Goku and Vegeta saying that Dabra (who Gohan fought) was almost as strong as perfect Cell. Gohan lost half his power and still wiped the floor with super perfect cell. He had to of lost half his strength just by idling a couple years. What I could never accept is THAT he idled. People say 'he was never interested in fighting' but I dont see it. He always seem excited to see new powers and abilities, and beyond that, Gohan wasnt an idiot. How many times was the earth almost wiped out from an exterior threat in his life time? It happened at least five times, and if we want to count some filler-- dozens. He was told to protect the planet by his Father and instead, this virtual God like child [he can move faster than the speed of light by several thousand multiples, given Raditz could go faster for god sakes, he can fly, destroy planets without trying--- really he could probably wipe out the universe with a single blast if he wanted] instead spends his days studying? At that, he lives in the mountains away from civilization, he lives in seemingly desperate poverty. What in the hell was he doing with his time outside of studying? Why would chi chi, or Gohan, have such drastic material ambitions when hes as close to a God and protector of Earth as one could possibly conceive of? It was just stupid. Dexter ending level stupid.
Ever met asian parents?
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so what is the power level of Bills in this? im also interested in how strong Janemba is
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On September 27 2013 05:32 rave[wcr] wrote:
so what is the power level of Bills in this? im also interested in how strong Janemba is
Under the spoiler for SS God. Bills is 100trillion, and he was fighting at 70% vs Goku (70trillion).
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On September 27 2013 04:54 Dazed_Spy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 00:33 JustPassingBy wrote:On September 26 2013 16:55 Foblos wrote:
I'm not super up to date on DBZ lore but can you explain why Gohan became such a bitch in the Buu saga? I understand that he wasn't training hardcore like previous but it just never made sense to me how he could be literally the only savior of earth and then be a weak pansy a few years later. Well, strength deteriorates with time if you do not train your full strength. Also he is probably out of training when it comes to fighting in general. And he isn't that weak of a pansy, I think I remember Goku and Vegeta saying that Dabra (who Gohan fought) was almost as strong as perfect Cell. Gohan lost half his power and still wiped the floor with super perfect cell. He had to of lost half his strength just by idling a couple years. What I could never accept is THAT he idled. People say 'he was never interested in fighting' but I dont see it. He always seem excited to see new powers and abilities, and beyond that, Gohan wasnt an idiot. How many times was the earth almost wiped out from an exterior threat in his life time? It happened at least five times, and if we want to count some filler-- dozens. He was told to protect the planet by his Father and instead, this virtual God like child [he can move faster than the speed of light by several thousand multiples, given Raditz could go faster for god sakes, he can fly, destroy planets without trying--- really he could probably wipe out the universe with a single blast if he wanted] instead spends his days studying? At that, he lives in the mountains away from civilization, he lives in seemingly desperate poverty. What in the hell was he doing with his time outside of studying? Why would chi chi, or Gohan, have such drastic material ambitions when hes as close to a God and protector of Earth as one could possibly conceive of? It was just stupid. Dexter ending level stupid.
I really feel the same about this. The worst part is that he just so happens to become the strongest unfused fighter in the complete series (aside from the new movie) without doing fucking anything. He just sits on his ass and becomes thousands of times stronger than SSJ3 Goku, who had to work his ass of for this! And what does he do with his powers? Let's his little fucking brother and his stupid friend nearly ruin the party completely, instead of just killing Boo as fast as possible (but I guess this is a common theme in the series, so this shouldn't be mentioned :D )
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As long as we're talking about Gohan vs Super Buu:
I find Gohan's "I'm smarter than Piccolo" line to be absolutely hilarious ("I'm stronger than my brother ans smarter than piccolo" is what he said in response to Buu absorbing both of them).
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On September 27 2013 07:10 LegalLord wrote:
As long as we're talking about Gohan vs Super Buu:
I find Gohan's "I'm smarter than Piccolo" line to be absolutely hilarious ("I'm stronger than my brother ans smarter than piccolo" is what he said in response to Buu absorbing both of them).
Well I dunno, Piccolo once let Frieza turn into his third form mid fight.
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If anyone knows a good spot to check out episodes online PM me
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so Goku + Vegeta fusion is still the most OP thing even more than super saiyanjin god thing
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You should consider using exponents (1.3*10^13)or make up a unit so you can use prefixes like M(ega), G(iga)etc... That would make the list both easier to understand, and the whole thing looks much more scientific (and thus cooler)
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On September 27 2013 08:14 Elasticity wrote:
so Goku + Vegeta fusion is still the most OP thing even more than super saiyanjin god thing
The silliest thing in the movie was asking shenron for super saiyan god instead of asking for potara earrings :3
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On September 27 2013 08:14 Elasticity wrote:
so Goku + Vegeta fusion is still the most OP thing even more than super saiyanjin god thing
Haha super sayain god is as strong as a SSJ2 Gogeta is what the main person said (toryama or however you spell his name).
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On September 27 2013 08:46 Ethelis wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 08:14 Elasticity wrote:
so Goku + Vegeta fusion is still the most OP thing even more than super saiyanjin god thing The silliest thing in the movie was asking shenron for super saiyan god instead of asking for potara earrings :3
Ive looked in several places but cant find this movie. Where can I watch it?
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On September 27 2013 04:53 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 00:28 RyLai wrote:On September 26 2013 15:27 Tobberoth wrote:On September 26 2013 14:48 obesechicken13 wrote:On September 26 2013 06:20 RyLai wrote:On September 26 2013 01:35 obesechicken13 wrote:
According to the math Vegito should be stronger than anything in the forseeable future/ the next saga. Seems a bit unfair. You could fuse piccolo with yamcha and get someone Buu level. Maybe not Yamcha. There's no way Vegito is stronger than Buriel. That equation is so broken lol.
Also it was humorous that this turned into a goku vs superman discussion for a while. Piccolo fused with Yamcha doesn't get rival bonus, so they likely wouldn't be remotely as strong. Remember Kibito and Kaioshin (Supreme Kai)? They're STILL weaker than all of the Saiyans cause of no rival/compatibility bonus. And yes, Vegito SHOULD be stronger than anything that can come in ANY future that has Goku and Vegeta being alive (this should tell you where I stand on the Vegito vs Billis argument). Vegito>All. Where did you get your formula from? I know Vegito is strong but nowhere does it say that you can just multiply two power levels together when you fuse them. Isn't that like illogical? (yes in a world where glowing haired half monkey aliens fly and punch each even to fight even though they have the speed to fly to the other end of the galaxy in seconds and blow up suns, I want my math to work out). x+y=z not x*y=z. That's how fusion works. The fusion is more perfect which means they can stay together forever, but it doesn't mean they're that much stronger than regular fusion. Also Gohan is strong for beating cell juniors, but I remember him losing to Broly in the second movie. Doesn't that make Broly stronger than Gohan? At the least there is some inconsistency. Broly did lose to Goku, but that was because Goku took power from everyone else and then put it all into one punch and got lucky it was against the same area Broly got stabbed when he was 1 day old. That hardly counts. Broly was probably toying with the Z fighters. + Show Spoiler +On even footing, Broly's SS1 was stronger than anyone else's SS1. Since movies are just filler BS I think it's impossible to make any decent ratings. That said (and it was ages since I watched the movie), Gohan never goes SSJ2 against Broly, right? Acording to the list, Gohan is only stronger than Broly in SSJ2 form, which sounds correct to me. Gohan actually went SS2 that fight. If you look at the art, SS High School Gohan has 2 strands of hair over his forehead. SS2 Gohan has only 1 strand of hair, just like in the Cell Games. I know AT has been bad about forgetting to put in the SS2 sparks, but I'd've hoped the anime would've been better about it... Though I guess if they followed the manga art completely, they wouldn't know about it... It'd be funny though if they actually intended it to be SS, but forgot what the SS art was and ended up making it SS2 cause AT always forgets to detail the sparks (this is why it's not fully clear whether Super Vegito is SS2 or SS). But yeah, based on the art, it is SS2 Gohan (who is very weak in comparison to literally every other SS2 in the story). Not only that, but why would Gohan fight in SS1 if he was losing/about to die when he could be SS2?
Cause Gohan tends to not like going full out and loves getting beat off. Remember the Cell Games incident? Gohan was taking a hard one to the face!
On September 27 2013 05:36 Zooper31 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 05:32 rave[wcr] wrote:
so what is the power level of Bills in this? im also interested in how strong Janemba is Under the spoiler for SS God. Bills is 100trillion, and he was fighting at 70% vs Goku (70trillion).
That's a minimal estimate. Could be 10, 100, or even 1000x that number. I made it a minimal estimate because otherwise the Super Saiyan God multiplier would be... Well... Beyond retarded... It's already at like... A million isn't it? lol 50 times that, and you have Vegito!
On September 27 2013 08:23 Simberto wrote:
You should consider using exponents (1.3*10^13)or make up a unit so you can use prefixes like M(ega), G(iga)etc... That would make the list both easier to understand, and the whole thing looks much more scientific (and thus cooler)
That is actually a beyond sick good idea! Thanks! I'll add that in on the next update. I redid a lot of the numbers and am seeing if I can make some cuts to the recent recalculations cause... Well the numbers got even bigger cause with the interpretation of what Trunks says with regards to the androids is this:
1) SS Gohan (future) was around half of Future 17 when Future 17 killed him.
2) SS Trunks is around the same or a little stronger, so he's 50% or 60% or Future 17 when being as strong as SS Goku from Namek (150 mil).
3) Later, he says, "In my time, I was at least able to give them a decent fight", which implies something like 70-80% of the future androids.
4) When watching Vegeta fight 18, he thinks is fighting well against 18, meaning Vegeta did better than Trunks ever did against the androids of his time (80%-90% of 18, who's weaker than 17)
5) He basically gets 1-shot by the androids of Goku's timeline, leading me to estimate him at 40-50% of those androids (50% so the numbers inflate less).
Basically, this means the androids are like 450 million, putting suppressed Cell probably around 1.5 billion. :/
Also gotta decide if SS Gohan>SS Goku or not. Cell basically thinks Gohan is inferior until he found out about his rage, which makes it seem like Goku is stronger. But Gohan thought Cell and Goku weren't trying because they felt inferior compared to him. And Goku and Vegeta basically used Gohan vs Cell as the benchmark of strength. If they were already stronger but didn't have access to SS2, being stronger than Gohan when they did get SS2 shouldn't be a surprise. This leads me to believe SS Gohan>SS Goku (cause there is more evidence supporting it than the other way around). Makes the numbers look a bit better... But feels weird (even though I know it should be true, some of the dialog makes me feel iffy on it).
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On September 27 2013 09:18 DyEnasTy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 08:46 Ethelis wrote:On September 27 2013 08:14 Elasticity wrote:
so Goku + Vegeta fusion is still the most OP thing even more than super saiyanjin god thing The silliest thing in the movie was asking shenron for super saiyan god instead of asking for potara earrings :3 Ive looked in several places but cant find this movie. Where can I watch it?
I posted a link in the OP under the sources. There's one part that's buggy when a song is playing and they didn't format the text properly (so you see the text code), but that's like 2-3 minutes of the movie, and not much dialog goes on at that time anyway (you can still read the dialog too, but it might take a bit of effort).
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On September 27 2013 00:28 RyLai wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2013 15:27 Tobberoth wrote:On September 26 2013 14:48 obesechicken13 wrote:On September 26 2013 06:20 RyLai wrote:On September 26 2013 01:35 obesechicken13 wrote:
According to the math Vegito should be stronger than anything in the forseeable future/ the next saga. Seems a bit unfair. You could fuse piccolo with yamcha and get someone Buu level. Maybe not Yamcha. There's no way Vegito is stronger than Buriel. That equation is so broken lol.
Also it was humorous that this turned into a goku vs superman discussion for a while. Piccolo fused with Yamcha doesn't get rival bonus, so they likely wouldn't be remotely as strong. Remember Kibito and Kaioshin (Supreme Kai)? They're STILL weaker than all of the Saiyans cause of no rival/compatibility bonus. And yes, Vegito SHOULD be stronger than anything that can come in ANY future that has Goku and Vegeta being alive (this should tell you where I stand on the Vegito vs Billis argument). Vegito>All. Where did you get your formula from? I know Vegito is strong but nowhere does it say that you can just multiply two power levels together when you fuse them. Isn't that like illogical? (yes in a world where glowing haired half monkey aliens fly and punch each even to fight even though they have the speed to fly to the other end of the galaxy in seconds and blow up suns, I want my math to work out). x+y=z not x*y=z. That's how fusion works. The fusion is more perfect which means they can stay together forever, but it doesn't mean they're that much stronger than regular fusion. Also Gohan is strong for beating cell juniors, but I remember him losing to Broly in the second movie. Doesn't that make Broly stronger than Gohan? At the least there is some inconsistency. Broly did lose to Goku, but that was because Goku took power from everyone else and then put it all into one punch and got lucky it was against the same area Broly got stabbed when he was 1 day old. That hardly counts. Broly was probably toying with the Z fighters. + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3d6WsnzngU On even footing, Broly's SS1 was stronger than anyone else's SS1. Since movies are just filler BS I think it's impossible to make any decent ratings. That said (and it was ages since I watched the movie), Gohan never goes SSJ2 against Broly, right? Acording to the list, Gohan is only stronger than Broly in SSJ2 form, which sounds correct to me. Gohan actually went SS2 that fight. If you look at the art, SS High School Gohan has 2 strands of hair over his forehead. SS2 Gohan has only 1 strand of hair, just like in the Cell Games. I know AT has been bad about forgetting to put in the SS2 sparks, but I'd've hoped the anime would've been better about it... Though I guess if they followed the manga art completely, they wouldn't know about it... It'd be funny though if they actually intended it to be SS, but forgot what the SS art was and ended up making it SS2 cause AT always forgets to detail the sparks (this is why it's not fully clear whether Super Vegito is SS2 or SS). But yeah, based on the art, it is SS2 Gohan (who is very weak in comparison to literally every other SS2 in the story).
Oh, you're talking about the second coming of Broly. I never watched that movie. I wouldn't be surprised at all if it's inconsistent though, but don't bring Akira Toriyama into it, he had nothing to do with any movies except the battle of the gods one. It was written by a bunch of dudes at Toei who probably had no idea how badly SSJ2 gohan should have owned LSSJ Broly.
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On September 27 2013 05:58 CruelZeratul wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 04:54 Dazed_Spy wrote:On September 27 2013 00:33 JustPassingBy wrote:On September 26 2013 16:55 Foblos wrote:
I'm not super up to date on DBZ lore but can you explain why Gohan became such a bitch in the Buu saga? I understand that he wasn't training hardcore like previous but it just never made sense to me how he could be literally the only savior of earth and then be a weak pansy a few years later. Well, strength deteriorates with time if you do not train your full strength. Also he is probably out of training when it comes to fighting in general. And he isn't that weak of a pansy, I think I remember Goku and Vegeta saying that Dabra (who Gohan fought) was almost as strong as perfect Cell. Gohan lost half his power and still wiped the floor with super perfect cell. He had to of lost half his strength just by idling a couple years. What I could never accept is THAT he idled. People say 'he was never interested in fighting' but I dont see it. He always seem excited to see new powers and abilities, and beyond that, Gohan wasnt an idiot. How many times was the earth almost wiped out from an exterior threat in his life time? It happened at least five times, and if we want to count some filler-- dozens. He was told to protect the planet by his Father and instead, this virtual God like child [he can move faster than the speed of light by several thousand multiples, given Raditz could go faster for god sakes, he can fly, destroy planets without trying--- really he could probably wipe out the universe with a single blast if he wanted] instead spends his days studying? At that, he lives in the mountains away from civilization, he lives in seemingly desperate poverty. What in the hell was he doing with his time outside of studying? Why would chi chi, or Gohan, have such drastic material ambitions when hes as close to a God and protector of Earth as one could possibly conceive of? It was just stupid. Dexter ending level stupid. I really feel the same about this. The worst part is that he just so happens to become the strongest unfused fighter in the complete series (aside from the new movie) without doing fucking anything. He just sits on his ass and becomes thousands of times stronger than SSJ3 Goku, who had to work his ass of for this! And what does he do with his powers? Let's his little fucking brother and his stupid friend nearly ruin the party completely, instead of just killing Boo as fast as possible (but I guess this is a common theme in the series, so this shouldn't be mentioned :D )
You guys underestimate the overbearing nature of Chi-chi, Gohan is and always will be a mama's boy, and Goku is out of the picture after Cell
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Wait, what?
16 more powerful than 17 and 18 ? I don't remember it this way. I have always considered 16 as the weak one.
Am I that wrong ?
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On September 27 2013 17:38 SChlafmann wrote:
Wait, what?
16 more powerful than 17 and 18 ? I don't remember it this way. I have always considered 16 as the weak one.
Am I that wrong ?
16 was pretty clearly more powerful than 17 and 18. He put up a good fight against First Form Cell when neither of them could.
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On September 27 2013 17:20 Flyingdutchman wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 05:58 CruelZeratul wrote:On September 27 2013 04:54 Dazed_Spy wrote:On September 27 2013 00:33 JustPassingBy wrote:On September 26 2013 16:55 Foblos wrote:
I'm not super up to date on DBZ lore but can you explain why Gohan became such a bitch in the Buu saga? I understand that he wasn't training hardcore like previous but it just never made sense to me how he could be literally the only savior of earth and then be a weak pansy a few years later. Well, strength deteriorates with time if you do not train your full strength. Also he is probably out of training when it comes to fighting in general. And he isn't that weak of a pansy, I think I remember Goku and Vegeta saying that Dabra (who Gohan fought) was almost as strong as perfect Cell. Gohan lost half his power and still wiped the floor with super perfect cell. He had to of lost half his strength just by idling a couple years. What I could never accept is THAT he idled. People say 'he was never interested in fighting' but I dont see it. He always seem excited to see new powers and abilities, and beyond that, Gohan wasnt an idiot. How many times was the earth almost wiped out from an exterior threat in his life time? It happened at least five times, and if we want to count some filler-- dozens. He was told to protect the planet by his Father and instead, this virtual God like child [he can move faster than the speed of light by several thousand multiples, given Raditz could go faster for god sakes, he can fly, destroy planets without trying--- really he could probably wipe out the universe with a single blast if he wanted] instead spends his days studying? At that, he lives in the mountains away from civilization, he lives in seemingly desperate poverty. What in the hell was he doing with his time outside of studying? Why would chi chi, or Gohan, have such drastic material ambitions when hes as close to a God and protector of Earth as one could possibly conceive of? It was just stupid. Dexter ending level stupid. I really feel the same about this. The worst part is that he just so happens to become the strongest unfused fighter in the complete series (aside from the new movie) without doing fucking anything. He just sits on his ass and becomes thousands of times stronger than SSJ3 Goku, who had to work his ass of for this! And what does he do with his powers? Let's his little fucking brother and his stupid friend nearly ruin the party completely, instead of just killing Boo as fast as possible (but I guess this is a common theme in the series, so this shouldn't be mentioned :D ) You guys underestimate the overbearing nature of Chi-chi, Gohan is and always will be a mama's boy, and Goku is out of the picture after Cell Yeah but his Father was still alive and well, Piccolo. Har har.
But seriously. Gohan told no to chi chi before, and all his friends and close family [save chi chi] live and breathe to defend the earth, and train. And for that matter, its implausible [even for an asian parent -_-] to refuse her godlike son training, in order to protect the planet, given every 2-3 months someone comes down, beats all the z fighters to within an inch of their life and wipes out half a continent of people. It was just a bad excuse to reinject goku/vegeta as the primary characters in the show/manga.
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The good thing is they are and ever were much cooler though 
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EPT
