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On August 08 2013 23:01 Christ the Redeemer wrote:
Source? Mainstream media (print, tv, etc) coverage or actual unequivocal critical position against NSA, legitimate website and not some obscure fan page in facebook or what not, or any legitimate source at all that Americans are really up in arms about the NSA and all the abuses by the US government.
Go to CNN and look it up yourself. Just type in NSA and you will see the numerious hearings we have had on the subject and every news agency and tech company reporting on it. Google will handle that for you no problem.
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On August 08 2013 22:00 shinosai wrote:
So just to be clear, you think a country should be allowed to do whatever it wants within its own borders, and no other country has a say in it.
My ignorant opinion on this subject can be expressed by answering to this - as long as the majority of that country is for it - Yes. I do think any country can do, whatever, inside their borders.
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On August 08 2013 23:03 DoubleReed wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 22:57 Plansix wrote:On August 08 2013 22:50 Christ the Redeemer wrote:On August 08 2013 22:46 DoubleReed wrote:On August 08 2013 22:42 Christ the Redeemer wrote:On August 08 2013 22:33 marvellosity wrote:On August 08 2013 22:32 Christ the Redeemer wrote:It is more moronic for someone to resort to ad hom in a discussion like this. The issue is not that you cannot complain about oppression in other countries. The issue is, especially among Americans who claim themselves to be the world`s police and moral center, they are fast to complain about "problems" in other countries, yet do not even bother to raise a finger towards problems commited by their own culture and government, often far greater, such as those I mentioned: military intervention, breach of privacy, terrorism, etc. Yeah you can complain about gender equality in Russia, but where is the rage in all the human rights violation commited by America? Where is the rage? We have a word for this - HYPROCRISY. Don't know where the fuck you've been, dear, but Americans complain about America all the time. Really love? So why the fuck is the NSA still doing what it has been illegally doing all these years? Where are these complaints you are talking about? Who are these complainants? It seems you are a little out of touch with reality, You do know that was a secret government program that even most congressmen didn't know about, right? Om Jesus are you seriously this retarded? We are talking about it NOW. NOW THAT THE ISSUE IS OUT. Why are there still no complaints or massive action (which you think is happening in your naive little mind) NOW? User was warned for this post There is action. Our congress is reviewing it and making is more transparent. They are working on better oversite and we know more about the program every day. And they have also proven that it is effective at warning of terrorist attacks, hence the shut down of US embassys this week. Nope on the last part. It's helped against terrorists in at most one case.
Well, to be fair to the NSA, we never really know how many attacks other things the CIA prevented over the years either. They don't really publish that stuff. There is oversight and a lot of senators that I trust seem to be ok with the program, so I'm willing to take their word that it is helping.
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On August 08 2013 23:11 Xayoz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 22:00 shinosai wrote:
So just to be clear, you think a country should be allowed to do whatever it wants within its own borders, and no other country has a say in it. My ignorant opinion on this subject can be expressed by answering to this - as long as the majority of that country is for it - Yes. I do think any country can do, whatever, inside their borders.
Including the Holocaust? I mean, as long as its within their own borders.
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On August 08 2013 22:52 DoubleReed wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 22:48 maybenexttime wrote:On August 08 2013 21:10 DoubleReed wrote:On August 08 2013 20:03 MikeMM wrote:On August 08 2013 19:45 n0ise wrote:We just think that it is not normal. By normal I mean that about 99% of population are not gay. What if a completely blind-born person would participate in a particular (doable) sport at the olympics. He's not normal, he's definitely not similar to 99% of the population. Do you go about beating, persecuting and banning him from the event? No, not unless you're living in the 7th fucking century. Which is kinda the point everyone's trying to make. Why do you think that in Russia gays are being beaten persecuted and banned from sport? You are completely and totaly wrong. Goverment does not support persecuton of gays. If someone says "gee, gays should get the same marriage rights." That person is breaking the law. Thats exactly the kind of Orwellian bullshit that even homophobes should not support. But I guess you hate gay people enough to take away your own rights. Most impressive. And I enjoyed your nonsense comparisons to Snowden and Manning, somehow comparing the right to assembly to whistleblowers. Hate to break it to you, but in America people protest everything all the time. I would know, I live in DC. Just last week a bunch of "ex-gays" protested the supreme court about some nonsense. We didnt arrest them. Because we believe in free speech. The fact that your country has a history of being a totalitarian hellhole should make this all the more concerning to you. Oh sorry, that's probably waaay over your head. Continue talking about how homosexuality is "unnatural." It's all you know. And many western countries have it the other way round. Say "homosexuality is sinful" and you'll get arrested (recently an American pastor got arrested in England for doing just that, I believe). Say that the number of Holocaust victims might need revision and you might have to serve some jail time. Neither party cares about freedom of speech or equality. The same applies to most influential feminists nowadays, who couldn't care less about men getting the short end of the stick (false rape accusations, child custody, etc.). Source please or stop the equivocation. And yes people do care about free speech. Look up the ACLU.
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/u.s.-street-preacher-arrested-in-london-for-using-homophobic-language
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/homosexuality-an-area-of-special-protection-to-uk-govt-police-uk-barrister/
From what I understand Italy wants to introduce a similar law (that will make religious preaching against homosexual acts illegal):
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/hundreds-expected-to-protest-anti-free-speech-homophobia-law-in-rome-paris
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/anti-homophobia-transphobia-bill-could-silence-christians-italian-family-gr
Then you have countries that want to outlaw the words like "father" and "mother" and replace them with "parent A" and "parent B" or such (I believe France wants to introduce such a law). Or countries that want to outlaw gender-specific toilets or force men to urinate while sitting (was that Sweden?).
All in all, both sides just want to legally enforce their respective agendas.
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On August 08 2013 23:11 Xayoz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 22:00 shinosai wrote:
So just to be clear, you think a country should be allowed to do whatever it wants within its own borders, and no other country has a say in it. My ignorant opinion on this subject can be expressed by answering to this - as long as the majority of that country is for it - Yes. I do think any country can do, whatever, inside their borders.
You may want to put some limits on that opinion and say that your not ok with them murdering a whole group of people beause the public demands it.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On August 08 2013 23:13 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 23:11 Xayoz wrote:On August 08 2013 22:00 shinosai wrote:
So just to be clear, you think a country should be allowed to do whatever it wants within its own borders, and no other country has a say in it. My ignorant opinion on this subject can be expressed by answering to this - as long as the majority of that country is for it - Yes. I do think any country can do, whatever, inside their borders. You may want to put some limits on that opinion and say that your not ok with them murdering a whole group of people beause the public demands it.
His whole view is silly; a true democracy is one with proper checks and balances in place to ensure "tyranny of the majority" does not occur. 55 people voting to kill the other 45 people is not a proper political democracy except under the very simplified definition of "people voted for it"
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On August 08 2013 23:12 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 22:52 DoubleReed wrote:On August 08 2013 22:48 maybenexttime wrote:On August 08 2013 21:10 DoubleReed wrote:On August 08 2013 20:03 MikeMM wrote:On August 08 2013 19:45 n0ise wrote:We just think that it is not normal. By normal I mean that about 99% of population are not gay. What if a completely blind-born person would participate in a particular (doable) sport at the olympics. He's not normal, he's definitely not similar to 99% of the population. Do you go about beating, persecuting and banning him from the event? No, not unless you're living in the 7th fucking century. Which is kinda the point everyone's trying to make. Why do you think that in Russia gays are being beaten persecuted and banned from sport? You are completely and totaly wrong. Goverment does not support persecuton of gays. If someone says "gee, gays should get the same marriage rights." That person is breaking the law. Thats exactly the kind of Orwellian bullshit that even homophobes should not support. But I guess you hate gay people enough to take away your own rights. Most impressive. And I enjoyed your nonsense comparisons to Snowden and Manning, somehow comparing the right to assembly to whistleblowers. Hate to break it to you, but in America people protest everything all the time. I would know, I live in DC. Just last week a bunch of "ex-gays" protested the supreme court about some nonsense. We didnt arrest them. Because we believe in free speech. The fact that your country has a history of being a totalitarian hellhole should make this all the more concerning to you. Oh sorry, that's probably waaay over your head. Continue talking about how homosexuality is "unnatural." It's all you know. And many western countries have it the other way round. Say "homosexuality is sinful" and you'll get arrested (recently an American pastor got arrested in England for doing just that, I believe). Say that the number of Holocaust victims might need revision and you might have to serve some jail time. Neither party cares about freedom of speech or equality. The same applies to most influential feminists nowadays, who couldn't care less about men getting the short end of the stick (false rape accusations, child custody, etc.). Source please or stop the equivocation. And yes people do care about free speech. Look up the ACLU. http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/u.s.-street-preacher-arrested-in-london-for-using-homophobic-languagehttp://www.lifesitenews.com/news/homosexuality-an-area-of-special-protection-to-uk-govt-police-uk-barrister/From what I understand Italy wants to introduce a similar law (that will make religious preaching against homosexual acts illegal): http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/hundreds-expected-to-protest-anti-free-speech-homophobia-law-in-rome-parishttp://www.lifesitenews.com/news/anti-homophobia-transphobia-bill-could-silence-christians-italian-family-grThen you have countries that want to outlaw the words like "father" and "mother" and replace them with "parent A" and "parent B" or such (I believe France wants to introduce such a law). Or countries that want to outlaw gender-specific toilets or force men to urinate while sitting (was that Sweden?). All in all, both sides just want to legally enforce their respective agendas.
Yes and those countries outlaw hate speach because they have issues with peopel attempting to start riots or there is a risk the speaker would be harmed. Even the US stops rallies if there is a large thread of violence.
And I would be ok with Russia limiting free speech if they had good reason to beleive that it could cause a riot at the Olympics or lead to a lot of people getting hurt. People have a right to be safe. But that is not the reasoning they are providing.
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On August 08 2013 23:06 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 23:01 Christ the Redeemer wrote:
Source? Mainstream media (print, tv, etc) coverage or actual unequivocal critical position against NSA, legitimate website and not some obscure fan page in facebook or what not, or any legitimate source at all that Americans are really up in arms about the NSA and all the abuses by the US government. I'm still pretty curious how the NSA's problems make Russia's problems any better.
I really want to swat you like a fly with your love for logical fallacy and lazy thinking, but I'll play nice.
NO ONE is saying that because of NSA, we could forget about Russia. What I am saying is that it is hypocritical for some people, especially Americans, to really be so riled up on Russia's human rights violation while they seem pretty fine with the violations of their own government. Hypocrisy, that's all. So unless anyone can provide me a legitimate source that indeed America is all up in arms about violations by its own government, I think I rest my case,
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On August 08 2013 23:10 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 23:01 Christ the Redeemer wrote:
Source? Mainstream media (print, tv, etc) coverage or actual unequivocal critical position against NSA, legitimate website and not some obscure fan page in facebook or what not, or any legitimate source at all that Americans are really up in arms about the NSA and all the abuses by the US government. Go to CNN and look it up yourself. Just type in NSA and you will see the numerious hearings we have had on the subject and every news agency and tech company reporting on it. Google will handle that for you no problem.
You know what's funny? I can quote this verbatim and give the same advice to you and see as many if not more evidence that there is none of this "Americans up in arms against NSA/US human rights violation" you are talking about. So again, please show me the evidence.
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On August 08 2013 23:12 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 23:03 DoubleReed wrote:On August 08 2013 22:57 Plansix wrote:On August 08 2013 22:50 Christ the Redeemer wrote:On August 08 2013 22:46 DoubleReed wrote:On August 08 2013 22:42 Christ the Redeemer wrote:On August 08 2013 22:33 marvellosity wrote:On August 08 2013 22:32 Christ the Redeemer wrote:It is more moronic for someone to resort to ad hom in a discussion like this. The issue is not that you cannot complain about oppression in other countries. The issue is, especially among Americans who claim themselves to be the world`s police and moral center, they are fast to complain about "problems" in other countries, yet do not even bother to raise a finger towards problems commited by their own culture and government, often far greater, such as those I mentioned: military intervention, breach of privacy, terrorism, etc. Yeah you can complain about gender equality in Russia, but where is the rage in all the human rights violation commited by America? Where is the rage? We have a word for this - HYPROCRISY. Don't know where the fuck you've been, dear, but Americans complain about America all the time. Really love? So why the fuck is the NSA still doing what it has been illegally doing all these years? Where are these complaints you are talking about? Who are these complainants? It seems you are a little out of touch with reality, You do know that was a secret government program that even most congressmen didn't know about, right? Om Jesus are you seriously this retarded? We are talking about it NOW. NOW THAT THE ISSUE IS OUT. Why are there still no complaints or massive action (which you think is happening in your naive little mind) NOW? User was warned for this post There is action. Our congress is reviewing it and making is more transparent. They are working on better oversite and we know more about the program every day. And they have also proven that it is effective at warning of terrorist attacks, hence the shut down of US embassys this week. Nope on the last part. It's helped against terrorists in at most one case. Well, to be fair to the NSA, we never really know how many attacks other things the CIA prevented over the years either. They don't really publish that stuff. There is oversight and a lot of senators that I trust seem to be ok with the program, so I'm willing to take their word that it is helping.
That's laughable. The director of the NSA has lied over a dozen times, under oath, to congress. Why exactly do you trust them?
The oversight is the FISA courts right now which are not a good oversight mechanism. Much more of rubber stamping.
We're only trying to get things fixed now. And there is considerable opposition from authoritarians.
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On August 08 2013 23:18 DoubleReed wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 23:12 Plansix wrote:On August 08 2013 23:03 DoubleReed wrote:On August 08 2013 22:57 Plansix wrote:On August 08 2013 22:50 Christ the Redeemer wrote:On August 08 2013 22:46 DoubleReed wrote:On August 08 2013 22:42 Christ the Redeemer wrote:On August 08 2013 22:33 marvellosity wrote:On August 08 2013 22:32 Christ the Redeemer wrote:It is more moronic for someone to resort to ad hom in a discussion like this. The issue is not that you cannot complain about oppression in other countries. The issue is, especially among Americans who claim themselves to be the world`s police and moral center, they are fast to complain about "problems" in other countries, yet do not even bother to raise a finger towards problems commited by their own culture and government, often far greater, such as those I mentioned: military intervention, breach of privacy, terrorism, etc. Yeah you can complain about gender equality in Russia, but where is the rage in all the human rights violation commited by America? Where is the rage? We have a word for this - HYPROCRISY. Don't know where the fuck you've been, dear, but Americans complain about America all the time. Really love? So why the fuck is the NSA still doing what it has been illegally doing all these years? Where are these complaints you are talking about? Who are these complainants? It seems you are a little out of touch with reality, You do know that was a secret government program that even most congressmen didn't know about, right? Om Jesus are you seriously this retarded? We are talking about it NOW. NOW THAT THE ISSUE IS OUT. Why are there still no complaints or massive action (which you think is happening in your naive little mind) NOW? User was warned for this post There is action. Our congress is reviewing it and making is more transparent. They are working on better oversite and we know more about the program every day. And they have also proven that it is effective at warning of terrorist attacks, hence the shut down of US embassys this week. Nope on the last part. It's helped against terrorists in at most one case. Well, to be fair to the NSA, we never really know how many attacks other things the CIA prevented over the years either. They don't really publish that stuff. There is oversight and a lot of senators that I trust seem to be ok with the program, so I'm willing to take their word that it is helping. That's laughable. The director of the NSA has lied over a dozen times, under oath, to congress. Why exactly do you trust them? The oversight is the FISA courts right now which are not a good oversight mechanism. Much more of rubber stamping. We're only trying to get things fixed now. And there is considerable opposition from authoritarians.
I stated my personal opinion on the subject and I have done my research on it. I am not worried about it. If you want to be, your entitled to be. It also helps that I had a brother that was overseas in a very dangerous section of the middle east for the last year, so my concerns were a little more than if the NSA was reading my texts.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
Can we not let CTR derail this thread into talking about the NSA? It's not the purpose.
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On August 08 2013 23:16 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 23:12 maybenexttime wrote:On August 08 2013 22:52 DoubleReed wrote:On August 08 2013 22:48 maybenexttime wrote:On August 08 2013 21:10 DoubleReed wrote:On August 08 2013 20:03 MikeMM wrote:On August 08 2013 19:45 n0ise wrote:We just think that it is not normal. By normal I mean that about 99% of population are not gay. What if a completely blind-born person would participate in a particular (doable) sport at the olympics. He's not normal, he's definitely not similar to 99% of the population. Do you go about beating, persecuting and banning him from the event? No, not unless you're living in the 7th fucking century. Which is kinda the point everyone's trying to make. Why do you think that in Russia gays are being beaten persecuted and banned from sport? You are completely and totaly wrong. Goverment does not support persecuton of gays. If someone says "gee, gays should get the same marriage rights." That person is breaking the law. Thats exactly the kind of Orwellian bullshit that even homophobes should not support. But I guess you hate gay people enough to take away your own rights. Most impressive. And I enjoyed your nonsense comparisons to Snowden and Manning, somehow comparing the right to assembly to whistleblowers. Hate to break it to you, but in America people protest everything all the time. I would know, I live in DC. Just last week a bunch of "ex-gays" protested the supreme court about some nonsense. We didnt arrest them. Because we believe in free speech. The fact that your country has a history of being a totalitarian hellhole should make this all the more concerning to you. Oh sorry, that's probably waaay over your head. Continue talking about how homosexuality is "unnatural." It's all you know. And many western countries have it the other way round. Say "homosexuality is sinful" and you'll get arrested (recently an American pastor got arrested in England for doing just that, I believe). Say that the number of Holocaust victims might need revision and you might have to serve some jail time. Neither party cares about freedom of speech or equality. The same applies to most influential feminists nowadays, who couldn't care less about men getting the short end of the stick (false rape accusations, child custody, etc.). Source please or stop the equivocation. And yes people do care about free speech. Look up the ACLU. http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/u.s.-street-preacher-arrested-in-london-for-using-homophobic-languagehttp://www.lifesitenews.com/news/homosexuality-an-area-of-special-protection-to-uk-govt-police-uk-barrister/From what I understand Italy wants to introduce a similar law (that will make religious preaching against homosexual acts illegal): http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/hundreds-expected-to-protest-anti-free-speech-homophobia-law-in-rome-parishttp://www.lifesitenews.com/news/anti-homophobia-transphobia-bill-could-silence-christians-italian-family-grThen you have countries that want to outlaw the words like "father" and "mother" and replace them with "parent A" and "parent B" or such (I believe France wants to introduce such a law). Or countries that want to outlaw gender-specific toilets or force men to urinate while sitting (was that Sweden?). All in all, both sides just want to legally enforce their respective agendas. Yes and those countries outlaw hate speach because they have issues with peopel attempting to start riots or there is a risk the speaker would be harmed. Even the US stops rallies if there is a large thread of violence. And I would be ok with Russia limiting free speech if they had good reason to beleive that it could cause a riot at the Olympics or lead to a lot of people getting hurt. People have a right to be safe. But that is not the reasoning they are providing.
Well, in that case you just justified what Russia did, lol. (Although I find your first paragraph ridiculous. Limiting free speech for people's own sake, really?)
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On August 08 2013 23:18 Christ the Redeemer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 23:10 Plansix wrote:On August 08 2013 23:01 Christ the Redeemer wrote:
Source? Mainstream media (print, tv, etc) coverage or actual unequivocal critical position against NSA, legitimate website and not some obscure fan page in facebook or what not, or any legitimate source at all that Americans are really up in arms about the NSA and all the abuses by the US government. Go to CNN and look it up yourself. Just type in NSA and you will see the numerious hearings we have had on the subject and every news agency and tech company reporting on it. Google will handle that for you no problem. You know what's funny? I can quote this verbatim and give the same advice to you and see as many if not more evidence that there is none of this "Americans up in arms against NSA/US human rights violation" you are talking about. So again, please show me the evidence.
"I'm too lazy to actually look up what is widely available, so I'm going to pretend that it just isn't there."
As someone who does live in this country, I can tell you right now that whenever you bring up this topic, people are pissed. Furthermore, there's something on the topic just about every week on CNN/FOX/MSNBC. People are quite critical of it, and there are talks in Congress about introducing bills to limit the NSA's scope.
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On August 08 2013 23:29 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 23:16 Plansix wrote:On August 08 2013 23:12 maybenexttime wrote:On August 08 2013 22:52 DoubleReed wrote:On August 08 2013 22:48 maybenexttime wrote:On August 08 2013 21:10 DoubleReed wrote:On August 08 2013 20:03 MikeMM wrote:On August 08 2013 19:45 n0ise wrote:We just think that it is not normal. By normal I mean that about 99% of population are not gay. What if a completely blind-born person would participate in a particular (doable) sport at the olympics. He's not normal, he's definitely not similar to 99% of the population. Do you go about beating, persecuting and banning him from the event? No, not unless you're living in the 7th fucking century. Which is kinda the point everyone's trying to make. Why do you think that in Russia gays are being beaten persecuted and banned from sport? You are completely and totaly wrong. Goverment does not support persecuton of gays. If someone says "gee, gays should get the same marriage rights." That person is breaking the law. Thats exactly the kind of Orwellian bullshit that even homophobes should not support. But I guess you hate gay people enough to take away your own rights. Most impressive. And I enjoyed your nonsense comparisons to Snowden and Manning, somehow comparing the right to assembly to whistleblowers. Hate to break it to you, but in America people protest everything all the time. I would know, I live in DC. Just last week a bunch of "ex-gays" protested the supreme court about some nonsense. We didnt arrest them. Because we believe in free speech. The fact that your country has a history of being a totalitarian hellhole should make this all the more concerning to you. Oh sorry, that's probably waaay over your head. Continue talking about how homosexuality is "unnatural." It's all you know. And many western countries have it the other way round. Say "homosexuality is sinful" and you'll get arrested (recently an American pastor got arrested in England for doing just that, I believe). Say that the number of Holocaust victims might need revision and you might have to serve some jail time. Neither party cares about freedom of speech or equality. The same applies to most influential feminists nowadays, who couldn't care less about men getting the short end of the stick (false rape accusations, child custody, etc.). Source please or stop the equivocation. And yes people do care about free speech. Look up the ACLU. http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/u.s.-street-preacher-arrested-in-london-for-using-homophobic-languagehttp://www.lifesitenews.com/news/homosexuality-an-area-of-special-protection-to-uk-govt-police-uk-barrister/From what I understand Italy wants to introduce a similar law (that will make religious preaching against homosexual acts illegal): http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/hundreds-expected-to-protest-anti-free-speech-homophobia-law-in-rome-parishttp://www.lifesitenews.com/news/anti-homophobia-transphobia-bill-could-silence-christians-italian-family-grThen you have countries that want to outlaw the words like "father" and "mother" and replace them with "parent A" and "parent B" or such (I believe France wants to introduce such a law). Or countries that want to outlaw gender-specific toilets or force men to urinate while sitting (was that Sweden?). All in all, both sides just want to legally enforce their respective agendas. Yes and those countries outlaw hate speach because they have issues with peopel attempting to start riots or there is a risk the speaker would be harmed. Even the US stops rallies if there is a large thread of violence. And I would be ok with Russia limiting free speech if they had good reason to beleive that it could cause a riot at the Olympics or lead to a lot of people getting hurt. People have a right to be safe. But that is not the reasoning they are providing. Well, in that case you just justified what Russia did, lol. (Although I find your first paragraph ridiculous. Limiting free speech for people's own sake, really?)
They do it all the time. Once someone becomes endangered, it is up to the police to protect them, endangering them as well. Of course their are limits and if people pressed the issue, I am sure they couldn't stop them from speaking, but may want demand the person move the date or change the venue.
Freedom of Speech is limited and always has been.
And I would accept that as Russia's reasoning. But they have not put forth that as their reasoning and there is strong evidence they simply wish to limit the speech of gays and their ability to protest.
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On August 08 2013 06:48 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 06:39 ftm wrote:
I really don't get why this is a deal-breaker? Isn't gay rights about tolerance and open mindedness? And, if it is, then aren't we supposed to be tolerant and open-minded towards those who don't support gay rights?
RIP in peace post-modern tolerance. *places hand on heart, looks down in earnest sadness* No, that's dumb. You don't support tolerance and open mindedness but also support intolerance and closed mindedness of other people. What the hell is this new "Your not open minded at all. You are not in support of other people CHOICE repress gays and remove their ability to protest and speak freely. What kind of progressive are you?"(sneer face)
So we have the olympics in Beijing, China, a few years ago. In China, the government will literally kill your children if you have more than one. People get locked up in prison without trial or reason, where they are often mistreated and starved to death or tortured. No one bats an eyelid, and gold medals are passed around.
A few journalists make a note of Russia's political stance on sexuality before the next olympics even start, and everyone loses their f*** mind. People's reactions seem very misplaced in my opinion.
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On August 08 2013 23:37 ftm wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 06:48 Plansix wrote:On August 08 2013 06:39 ftm wrote:
I really don't get why this is a deal-breaker? Isn't gay rights about tolerance and open mindedness? And, if it is, then aren't we supposed to be tolerant and open-minded towards those who don't support gay rights?
RIP in peace post-modern tolerance. *places hand on heart, looks down in earnest sadness* No, that's dumb. You don't support tolerance and open mindedness but also support intolerance and closed mindedness of other people. What the hell is this new "Your not open minded at all. You are not in support of other people CHOICE repress gays and remove their ability to protest and speak freely. What kind of progressive are you?"(sneer face) So we have the olympics in Beijing, China, a few years ago. In China, the government will literally kill your children if you have more than one. People get locked up in prison without trial or reason, where they are often mistreated and starved to death or tortured. No one bats an eyelid, and gold medals are passed around. A few journalists make a note of Russia's political stance on sexuality before the next olympics even start, and everyone loses their f*** mind. People's reactions seem very misplaced in my opinion.
Please. Provide. Evidence.
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On August 08 2013 23:12 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 22:52 DoubleReed wrote:On August 08 2013 22:48 maybenexttime wrote:On August 08 2013 21:10 DoubleReed wrote:On August 08 2013 20:03 MikeMM wrote:On August 08 2013 19:45 n0ise wrote:We just think that it is not normal. By normal I mean that about 99% of population are not gay. What if a completely blind-born person would participate in a particular (doable) sport at the olympics. He's not normal, he's definitely not similar to 99% of the population. Do you go about beating, persecuting and banning him from the event? No, not unless you're living in the 7th fucking century. Which is kinda the point everyone's trying to make. Why do you think that in Russia gays are being beaten persecuted and banned from sport? You are completely and totaly wrong. Goverment does not support persecuton of gays. If someone says "gee, gays should get the same marriage rights." That person is breaking the law. Thats exactly the kind of Orwellian bullshit that even homophobes should not support. But I guess you hate gay people enough to take away your own rights. Most impressive. And I enjoyed your nonsense comparisons to Snowden and Manning, somehow comparing the right to assembly to whistleblowers. Hate to break it to you, but in America people protest everything all the time. I would know, I live in DC. Just last week a bunch of "ex-gays" protested the supreme court about some nonsense. We didnt arrest them. Because we believe in free speech. The fact that your country has a history of being a totalitarian hellhole should make this all the more concerning to you. Oh sorry, that's probably waaay over your head. Continue talking about how homosexuality is "unnatural." It's all you know. And many western countries have it the other way round. Say "homosexuality is sinful" and you'll get arrested (recently an American pastor got arrested in England for doing just that, I believe). Say that the number of Holocaust victims might need revision and you might have to serve some jail time. Neither party cares about freedom of speech or equality. The same applies to most influential feminists nowadays, who couldn't care less about men getting the short end of the stick (false rape accusations, child custody, etc.). Source please or stop the equivocation. And yes people do care about free speech. Look up the ACLU. http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/u.s.-street-preacher-arrested-in-london-for-using-homophobic-languagehttp://www.lifesitenews.com/news/homosexuality-an-area-of-special-protection-to-uk-govt-police-uk-barrister/From what I understand Italy wants to introduce a similar law (that will make religious preaching against homosexual acts illegal): http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/hundreds-expected-to-protest-anti-free-speech-homophobia-law-in-rome-parishttp://www.lifesitenews.com/news/anti-homophobia-transphobia-bill-could-silence-christians-italian-family-grThen you have countries that want to outlaw the words like "father" and "mother" and replace them with "parent A" and "parent B" or such (I believe France wants to introduce such a law). Or countries that want to outlaw gender-specific toilets or force men to urinate while sitting (was that Sweden?). All in all, both sides just want to legally enforce their respective agendas.
I am not in favor of hate speech laws (although I do favor hatecrime laws). Although I could see that as just general harassment.
I don't like the equivocation at all, and I'll bring up the ACLU again. It's often been labeled a "far-left" organization even though it has defended Rush Limbaugh and things like homophobic speech.
Edit: The parent A and parent B are for government forms like birth certificates. The fact that you think children should have incorrect government forms because of some bizarre ideology is one of the most fucked up things I've ever heard.
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EPT
