EPTRussia Plans To Enforce Anti-Gay Law at Olympics - Page 31
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
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Aeroplaneoverthesea
United Kingdom1977 Posts
On August 07 2013 06:14 DeepElemBlues wrote: back then lynching was the progressive way to kill minorities compared to the rest of the world yes including europe. That's not true at all though is it? Britain hasn't done anything of the sort for centuries (not on our own soil anyway), Weimar Germany and even Bolshevik Russia were a hell of a lot less racist than the segregated south too. | ||
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Kimaker
United States2131 Posts
On August 07 2013 06:40 Plansix wrote: So you are saying we shouldn't be upset or angry because it doesn't accomplish anything? Does your arguing with us on the subject make us less likely to argue? No, it does not. It does not make us less likely to discuss the matter. However, it does derail the discussion. At the end of the day, Russia can puff it's chest about its anti gay laws, but they will won't do much once the games start. If the every US team walks out rainbows on their arms and gay pride pins, Russia isn't going to do shit about it. Because at the end of the day, they are as powerless to stop our athletes from protesting and we are to stop them from passing stupid laws. Fuggit. Let's recap then I'm peacing out: 1. I said, "Well, whining is not ACTUALLY going to do anything. Since that's the case, here's an interesting way it could effect the gay population in Russia and what other nations could do to take advantage of the demographic shift this policy may cause. After all, policies which target small segments of the population have been shown to cause such situations before as in the case of Nazi Germany and the Jews." 2. People twisted my words to claim that I said the holocaust was somehow "Good". WTF. 3. People start projecting my analysis of the situation as, "Can't effect any change currently, so make the best of it." into, "I GIVE UP. WE SHOULD ALL GIVE UP. CRITICISM IS DUMB. DEFEATISM HURR DURR." 4. Explain in greater detail why sitting here criticizing isn't really causing any sort of change (without ruling out criticism altogether as it is certainly a useful endeavor. Particularly posts by LaContra, feathertheguru and...someone earlier who pointed out how it can be interpreted as being another way to deal with the Russian demographic collapse. These all shed light on the situation in a critical way.) 5.My Spengler quote get's made fun of. I am sad. 6. Get told I'm derailing. True. Will stop. The end. | ||
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Aeroplaneoverthesea
United Kingdom1977 Posts
On August 07 2013 06:49 jinorazi wrote: arent there some kind of anti-politics law? korea does that "dokdo is ours" thing, we saw it in sc2 and we see it frequently in soccer and other sports. i think athletes get fined depending on the organization, like fifa or something. There's obviously a line you can cross with this. eg. North Korea should not be allowed to host the Olympics. | ||
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KhaliWear
Canada159 Posts
On August 06 2013 05:28 qotsager wrote: what's this? homosexual propaganda? context please. In Rassia Man have sex with Woman! Oh Ho! Ho! Ho! Orthodox country. | ||
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Paljas
Germany6926 Posts
On August 07 2013 06:22 Kimaker wrote: Okay. It's a bullshit attitude. How? We're not going to economically sanction Russia (they're too important), it's not even a small ruling elite as was the case in S. Africa (it's the whole society), and no one's going to go to war over it. So where are you? Flailing your arms and pretending that getting upset and telling people your upset is going to do something? Really? Do you give a shit when Americans get flabbergasted at your lack of personal firearms? No. You defend (haha! get the joke? You can't because you don't have firearms!) your way of life because it works for you. Do Americans care when European nations can demonstrate higher standards of living and superior public health with state run medicine? No, because our principles are different and, "lalalalala, my way of life!" Sitting on your computer criticizing Russia DOES jack. Not that I don't condone it (the criticism), but actually thinking it does something is delusional unless you're Russian. That's all I'm saying. So how is that bullshit? your comparisons are really off. yes, me criticizing russia doesnt do anything. the usa, or the eu criticizing might (probably wont tho). however, the ignorance of the western world against violation of human rights is just disgusting. (prime example would be china. well, actually the prime example would be the western world itself, becasue most countrys refuse to fix their on problems with human rights and nobody cares about that.) yes, it is a fight between davind and a goliath. | ||
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Feartheguru
Canada1334 Posts
On August 07 2013 07:00 Paljas wrote: your comparisons are really off. yes, me criticizing russia doesnt do anything. the usa, or the eu criticizing might (probably wont tho). however, the ignorance of the western world against violation of human rights is just disgusting. (prime example would be china. well, actually the prime example would be the western world itself, becasue most countrys refuse to fix their on problems with human rights and nobody cares about that.) yes, it is a fight between davind and a goliath. Ignorance in what sense? because believe me, the vast majority of Chinese citizens approves of their own government a lot more than you do. What would be your ideal scenario, if the West overthrows the Chinese government, ruins their rapidly developing economy, reverses their rising standard of living to you can impose your human rights? Need I even bother to mention Western industrialization was also built on the backs of exploited workers? quite possibly significantly worse than the conditions in China today. Why did the West not care about the violation of human rights in China before the 90s? because China wasn't a threat back then, and now it is. Why are there so many urgent human rights issues in the middle east (Syria) but there's no urgency to improve even worse problems in Africa (Somalia, Sudan)? Even you can figure this out The ignorance of how the world works is the only thing disgusting here. | ||
bkrow
Australia8532 Posts
http://www.smh.com.au/sport/ioc-silence-on-gay-laws-speaks-volumes-20130805-2ra6d.html Essentially - you can be gay, just don't tell anyone! | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
On August 07 2013 06:14 DeepElemBlues wrote: back then lynching was the progressive way to kill minorities compared to the rest of the world yes including europe. I honestly can't think of many more posters that post nonsense the rate that you have over the past year. | ||
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DeepElemBlues
United States5080 Posts
On August 07 2013 06:14 DeepElemBlues wrote: Show nested quote + back then lynching was the progressive way to kill minorities compared to the rest of the world yes including europe. That's not true at all though is it? Britain hasn't done anything of the sort for centuries (not on our own soil anyway), Weimar Germany and even Bolshevik Russia were a hell of a lot less racist than the segregated south too. No Bolshevik Russia wasn't it was intensely racist against non-Russians Ukrainians were kind of okay Byelorussians were okay Georgians were okay while Stalin was alive other than that you were a prime candidate for enemy of the state and relocation past Kuibyshev somewhere. They used to appoint Russians to high posts in non-Russian areas of the USSR as a deliberate insult to the people there and because they didn't trust them because they weren't Russian. They starved millions of Ukrainians to death to keep Russians in Moscow and St. Petersburg fed because who cares about Ukrainians. Weimar Germany was very racist but not as openly racist as the South that didn't take long to change Of course it's true Europe wasn't always more progressive than America man that's a post-war (WW2) development On August 07 2013 06:14 DeepElemBlues wrote: Show nested quote + back then lynching was the progressive way to kill minorities compared to the rest of the world yes including europe. I honestly can't think of many more posters that post nonsense the rate that you have over the past year. I honestly can't think of how I could care more. | ||
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Aeroplaneoverthesea
United Kingdom1977 Posts
On August 07 2013 13:06 DeepElemBlues wrote: No Bolshevik Russia wasn't it was intensely racist against non-Russians Ukrainians were kind of okay Byelorussians were okay Georgians were okay while Stalin was alive other than that you were a prime candidate for enemy of the state and relocation past Kuibyshev somewhere. They used to appoint Russians to high posts in non-Russian areas of the USSR as a deliberate insult to the people there and because they didn't trust them because they weren't Russian. They starved millions of Ukrainians to death to keep Russians in Moscow and St. Petersburg fed because who cares about Ukrainians. Weimar Germany was very racist but not as openly racist as the South that didn't take long to change Of course it's true Europe wasn't always more progressive than America man that's a post-war (WW2) development I honestly can't think of how I could care more. The Holodomor didn't have racial motives it was about forced industrialisation, and there were loads of Jews (Kaganovic, Trotsky), Georgians (Beria/Stalin), Armenians (Mikoyan) and Ukranians (Mayakovsky) at the highest echelons of the Bolshevik Party. Stalin attacked the Jews post WW2 but at the same time kept Kaganovic and many others around. The Bolsheviks were overall obviously really bad but they were considerably less discriminating over race than the USA was at the time. Europe abolished slavery decades before America did too. Hell even Tsarist Russia abolished slavery before you guys and when you're less progressive than Tsarist Russia you know you're the lowest of the low. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5866 Posts
On August 07 2013 13:45 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote: The Holodomor didn't have racial motives it was about forced industrialisation, and there were loads of Jews (Kaganovic, Trotsky), Georgians (Beria/Stalin), Armenians (Mikoyan) and Ukranians (Mayakovsky) at the highest echelons of the Bolshevik Party. Stalin attacked the Jews post WW2 but at the same time kept Kaganovic and many others around. The Bolsheviks were overall obviously really bad but they were considerably less discriminating over race than the USA was at the time. Europe abolished slavery decades before America did too. Hell even Tsarist Russia abolished slavery before you guys and when you're less progressive than Tsarist Russia you know you're the lowest of the low. Yes, because Stalin ordering to eradicate certain ethnic groups is less racist than American apartheid... Your explanation makes as much sense as saying that the bolshevik revolution was not aimed at fighting the wealthy people just because it happened to be financed by some of the wealthiest people in the world. And Holodomor was used to subjugate Ukrainians, it was no accident. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_operation_of_the_NKVD http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_transfer_in_the_Soviet_Union | ||
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BillGates
471 Posts
On August 02 2013 07:00 Djzapz wrote: Just read a thing about Canada's minister of foreign affairs saying that the Olympics are irrelevant because this heinous law affects the Russians 365 days every year. Apparently, the US, UK and Canada will try to convince Russia to change the law before the Olympics though. But I don't know what we should expect. O gee, the same countries that still have and/or had the same laws on the books just few years ago. That is like a rapist trying to convince another rapist not to rape. As long as people believe the government can do whatever they want and have no limits, then government will do whatever they want and most often everything the people don't want. Russia is a corrupt hell hole because of big government and people having the notion that government is god and can do whatever they want. How about we all agree on human rights, small, limited and decentralized governments with lots of checks and balances and an ideology of voluntary existence and cooperation? | ||
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hfglgg
Germany5372 Posts
thats the only good thing though. :/ | ||
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Ahzz
Finland780 Posts
However, I do understand that this may restrict the freedom of expressing yourself as a gay person in a relatively normal fashion as well. Regardless, such expressions shouldn't happen in public even if you are heterosexual imo, so no sexual bias here. | ||
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hfglgg
Germany5372 Posts
On August 07 2013 18:36 Ahzz wrote: Eh, gays can still be gays all they want. As far as I understand, nobody in these olympics will judge you for being something. What does matter, is shoving it into your face. Some people don't WANT to see gay pride parades, or anything of the sort. However, I do understand that this may restrict the freedom of expressing yourself as a gay person in a relatively normal fashion as well. Regardless, such expressions shouldn't happen in public even if you are heterosexual imo, so no sexual bias here. no kissing your partner, holding hands, saying that gays are not the devil? | ||
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woreyour
582 Posts
On August 06 2013 21:32 woreyour wrote: Russia is too manly for gays. User was warned for this post LOL, Empyrean really? 1st it is not a one word, it is a one liner that pretty much says for itself. Leaves things for readers to analyse and think for themselves.  But for the effort you are looking for I will explain and provide my opinion. I was restraining myself to provide opinionated and bias statements but here goes: Russia for me comes as a harsh cold country, men are bred to be tougher, people are tougher. I think the old people who run the country have this deep of a pride they are not willing to have gay stuff in their country. They are not ready for gay fabulousness rainbow springkles. They wanted to be the last bastion of manliness in this earth. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5866 Posts
On August 07 2013 17:01 BillGates wrote: O gee, the same countries that still have and/or had the same laws on the books just few years ago. That is like a rapist trying to convince another rapist not to rape. As long as people believe the government can do whatever they want and have no limits, then government will do whatever they want and most often everything the people don't want. Russia is a corrupt hell hole because of big government and people having the notion that government is god and can do whatever they want. How about we all agree on human rights, small, limited and decentralized governments with lots of checks and balances and an ideology of voluntary existence and cooperation? This has lasted for centuries, so it's unlikely to change fast. | ||
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
On August 07 2013 13:06 DeepElemBlues wrote: No Bolshevik Russia wasn't it was intensely racist against non-Russians Ukrainians were kind of okay Byelorussians were okay Georgians were okay while Stalin was alive other than that you were a prime candidate for enemy of the state and relocation past Kuibyshev somewhere. They used to appoint Russians to high posts in non-Russian areas of the USSR as a deliberate insult to the people there and because they didn't trust them because they weren't Russian. They starved millions of Ukrainians to death to keep Russians in Moscow and St. Petersburg fed because who cares about Ukrainians. Weimar Germany was very racist but not as openly racist as the South that didn't take long to change Of course it's true Europe wasn't always more progressive than America man that's a post-war (WW2) development I honestly can't think of how I could care more. While arguing about the racism is USSR probably the most interesting case is the massive deportation of Crimean Tatars (there is a wiki article) to Uzbekistan, Siberia (and other distant territories), because of the alleged collaboration with Nazi Germany. The whole minority got punished. | ||
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On August 07 2013 17:01 BillGates wrote: O gee, the same countries that still have and/or had the same laws on the books just few years ago. That is like a rapist trying to convince another rapist not to rape. As long as people believe the government can do whatever they want and have no limits, then government will do whatever they want and most often everything the people don't want. Russia is a corrupt hell hole because of big government and people having the notion that government is god and can do whatever they want. How about we all agree on human rights, small, limited and decentralized governments with lots of checks and balances and an ideology of voluntary existence and cooperation? Well small and decentralized tends to mean ineffective and arbitrary. Voluntary existence and cooperation is very much at the heart of democracy, really. The problem with libertarianism is that low trust societies have massive implicit costs to people's lives and well being. Breaking government down and such leads too often to exploitation and tragedies of the commons. Governments are supposed to enable trust in society. And when they fail this, they become problematic. Of course limits and checks and balances are great. They need to be figured out by society though. Not that easy to figure out. | ||
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