On July 24 2013 02:19 Artax wrote: Whenever I go to a club, I get the repeated feeling that so many people are trying convince themselves they are having fun. They are trying to get lost in the fun that others are showing they are having, trying to link into a collective emotion.
Above all, they are simply trying to fulfill the social need, trying to fit in, trying to connect with others. And I'd argue that a club is one of the worst places to try and feel connected. The suffocating music and crowd, the excessive intoxication, the superficiality... They all foster shallow connections rather than deep, people do not get fulfilled from such activities.
Here's a hint; not all activities in life are "fulfilling".
Some people just wanna dance
Dancing is rarely just about dancing.
Well that's fine. While you're off in the corner second guessing everyone elses likely drug induced happiness, some people will genuinely be enjoying themselves. Surprise surprise! Clubbing or dancing might not be for you, but psychologizing it in pursuit of basically marginalizing those who do enjoy it is stupid.
I hope you aren't taking my analysis personally. If you really do find it so enjoyable then you shouldn't feel any need to get defensive. I just think people convince themselves they are having more fun than they are, and most are not seeking "just dancing" but are seeking to fulfill social needs. That's why they get dressed up and go to a club with hundreds of people instead of dancing at home. It's purely about trying to fulfill social needs.
Unfortunately my living room does not contain world class DJs or $10,000 speakers. Sharing that experience with others is amazing as well. Either you just haven't had a good experience or it's just not your thing. This is how i'd re-phrase your sentiments:
Above all, they are simply trying to fulfill the desire connect with others. And I'd argue that a club is one of the best places to try and feel connected. The energetic music and crowd, the liberating intoxication, the simple bliss... They all foster deep connections rather than shallow, people feel fulfilled from such activities
I've literally been to shows were people left crying because it was such a beautiful experience. When you turn around and you see an entire club full of people all feeling the same emotions of happiness it's incredible.
Or you can go and get drunk and try to have sex with something. Plenty of people enjoy those shallow interactions, myself included. Or you can stand in a corner and be miserable, which I have also done. Whatever floats your boat.
This guy knows what's up. Whether it be jumping to the beat with 50 000 other people or arm in arm with a bunch of strangers singing along with a song, it's jus a totally surreal experience. I was at EDC Vegas and didn't try to pick up a single girl while the music was playing. My buddy and I just made friends with a bunch of people around us and we all just partied, danced, etc. Not to mention I was sober for a good chunk of the event since I never left the stage to grab more drinks. I just ran on whatever we used to pre-drink. It was an unreal time and we still talk to lots of the people we made friends with down there. We're all planning something huge for next year.
On July 24 2013 02:19 Artax wrote: Whenever I go to a club, I get the repeated feeling that so many people are trying convince themselves they are having fun. They are trying to get lost in the fun that others are showing they are having, trying to link into a collective emotion.
Above all, they are simply trying to fulfill the social need, trying to fit in, trying to connect with others. And I'd argue that a club is one of the worst places to try and feel connected. The suffocating music and crowd, the excessive intoxication, the superficiality... They all foster shallow connections rather than deep, people do not get fulfilled from such activities.
Here's a hint; not all activities in life are "fulfilling".
Some people just wanna dance
Dancing is rarely just about dancing.
Well that's fine. While you're off in the corner second guessing everyone elses likely drug induced happiness, some people will genuinely be enjoying themselves. Surprise surprise! Clubbing or dancing might not be for you, but psychologizing it in pursuit of basically marginalizing those who do enjoy it is stupid.
I hope you aren't taking my analysis personally. If you really do find it so enjoyable then you shouldn't feel any need to get defensive. I just think people convince themselves they are having more fun than they are, and most are not seeking "just dancing" but are seeking to fulfill social needs. That's why they get dressed up and go to a club with hundreds of people instead of dancing at home. It's purely about trying to fulfill social needs.
Going to a club to fulfill social needs? Yeah, isn't that the point? And you're right, it isn't just about dancing, it's about dancing in public, so yes, there is a social aspect to clubbing and it's related activities.
Now move on to my main point. That the atmosphere of a club only allows shallow connections between people, and therefore does a poor job of fulfilling the need to feel connected to other people. We could make the same argument about texting, for example.
Use of the word shallow implies some sort of necessary hierarchy in social interactions, as though there exists this list of "deep" and "shallow" activities with which one can judge the merits of a given activity. I don't think this is the case. There are a lot of people who go to places like bars and clubs with nothing but shallow interaction in mind, this is true, but there are also plenty of people who just want a public place with music they like and a place to dance. It isn't a one size fits all schema.
Sure, this is all subjective. I'm just basing this off of personal experience.
I've talked to people who were sober, and I've talked to people who were intoxicated. The drunk conversations tend to be more shallow, and leave me less socially satisfied.
I've talked to people in a quiet environment, and I've talked to people in a very loud environment where many words can't be heard. The loud environment made the conversation shallow and simple, and left me less socially satisfied.
I've also felt that dancing was not nearly as enjoyable as other physical activities that can be done in greater privacy.
I don't fault anyone for having a different assessment of these relative activities, I just disagree with them.
On July 24 2013 02:19 Artax wrote: Whenever I go to a club, I get the repeated feeling that so many people are trying convince themselves they are having fun. They are trying to get lost in the fun that others are showing they are having, trying to link into a collective emotion.
Above all, they are simply trying to fulfill the social need, trying to fit in, trying to connect with others. And I'd argue that a club is one of the worst places to try and feel connected. The suffocating music and crowd, the excessive intoxication, the superficiality... They all foster shallow connections rather than deep, people do not get fulfilled from such activities.
Here's a hint; not all activities in life are "fulfilling".
Some people just wanna dance
Dancing is rarely just about dancing.
Well that's fine. While you're off in the corner second guessing everyone elses likely drug induced happiness, some people will genuinely be enjoying themselves. Surprise surprise! Clubbing or dancing might not be for you, but psychologizing it in pursuit of basically marginalizing those who do enjoy it is stupid.
I hope you aren't taking my analysis personally. If you really do find it so enjoyable then you shouldn't feel any need to get defensive. I just think people convince themselves they are having more fun than they are, and most are not seeking "just dancing" but are seeking to fulfill social needs. That's why they get dressed up and go to a club with hundreds of people instead of dancing at home. It's purely about trying to fulfill social needs.
Going to a club to fulfill social needs? Yeah, isn't that the point? And you're right, it isn't just about dancing, it's about dancing in public, so yes, there is a social aspect to clubbing and it's related activities.
Now move on to my main point. That the atmosphere of a club only allows shallow connections between people, and therefore does a poor job of fulfilling the need to feel connected to other people. We could make the same argument about texting, for example.
Use of the word shallow implies some sort of necessary hierarchy in social interactions, as though there exists this list of "deep" and "shallow" activities with which one can judge the merits of a given activity. I don't think this is the case. There are a lot of people who go to places like bars and clubs with nothing but shallow interaction in mind, this is true, but there are also plenty of people who just want a public place with music they like and a place to dance. It isn't a one size fits all schema.
Sure, this is all subjective. I'm just basing this off of personal experience.
I've talked to people who were sober, and I've talked to people who were intoxicated. The drunk conversations tend to be more shallow, and leave me less socially satisfied.
I've talked to people in a quiet environment, and I've talked to people in a very loud environment where many words can't be heard. The loud environment made the conversation shallow and simple, and left me less socially satisfied.
I've also felt that dancing was not nearly as enjoyable as other physical activities that can be done in greater privacy.
I don't fault anyone for having a different assessment of these relative activities, I just disagree with them.
Fair enough, it takes gusto to admit the anecdotal limits of ones' own experience, so kudos there. I'll just add that life can be rather surprising when it comes to expectations. For example, one of the best conversations I've ever had with my father happened to take place right outside the front door of a booming club in Cancun, during which we drank an inordinate amount of tequila and sangrita. Similarly, I used to bounce at a club/bar, and I can't even begin to recount how many interesting conversations I've had with patrons I'd have otherwise never met.
If i go clubbing (maybe every 4 to 6 weeks) its all about consuming MDMA and dancing. As I usually go to goa (psy trance) parties i am always surrounded by LSD users and thats totally fine because i dont care and they dont care - everyone just enjoys his trip. You can identify those people (and myself) by the water bottle that we always carry around on the dancefloor
On July 23 2013 12:36 decafchicken wrote: I only go to the club if there's a DJ in town i actually like, which is every month or so in chicago. For some reason the shittiest clubs have the best promoters which is annoying.
If i'm just going out i'll just go to the bar because night clubs are kinda shitty for just going out and getting drunk and having fun.
Just got my tickets for this, gonna be fucking epic. Music festivals are insane:
This looks sick !!! Is it a rave ? I might book a flight for Georgia for September now LOL.
But yeah, I think there's definitely a heavy influence of what kind of clubs there are near you, as well as what kind of people go clubbing near your town. If only boring people go in groups to just dance by themselves, it definitely ruins the night. If only shitty DJ's are there who play shitty music, then it will also make the night less fun.
I hope to all the people who are not satisfied with the clubs near your neighborhood to go check out other towns with other clubs and people ! Seattle has fantastic clubs, and I strongly recommend visiting.
This weekend it is the older brother of TomorrowWorld in Belgium - Tomorrowland ! Here a cool part from last year: (starts at 01:00)
Clubbing, and especially dancing, feels to me a lot like deliberately behaving like idiots because attractive women tend to be idiots.
It feels a lot like a pointless ritual that men go through merely because women are pious enough to believe in it. Nothing is gained from the experience but the opportunity to get laid. Which puts you in an awkward position anyway, because you've just had sex with someone you don't know.
Add to that all the time spent working out and making yourself trendy to gain an advantage over the next guy in the club, and you have a recipe for a decadent, shallow, atomized culture that gives one the impression that civilization is in its last throes.
On July 24 2013 03:46 GreenGringo wrote: ........ a decadent, shallow, atomized culture that gives one the impression that civilization is in its last throes.
Funny that reading comments like yours gives me the same impression. There's nothing quite like holding the gavel ehh? Oh well!
On July 24 2013 03:46 GreenGringo wrote: Clubbing, and especially dancing, feels to me a lot like deliberately behaving like idiots because attractive women tend to be idiots.
It feels a lot like a pointless ritual that men go through merely because women are pious enough to believe in it. Nothing is gained from the experience but the opportunity to get laid. Which puts you in an awkward position anyway, because you've just had sex with someone you don't know.
Add to that all the time spent working out and making yourself trendy to gain an advantage over the next guy in the club, and you have a recipe for a decadent, shallow, atomized culture that gives one the impression that civilization is in its last throes.
I like how your entire rant is flawed at the very base of its assumptions, but I guess such minuscule details do not matter to someone with your massively superior intellect?
On July 24 2013 03:46 GreenGringo wrote: Clubbing, and especially dancing, feels to me a lot like deliberately behaving like idiots because attractive women tend to be idiots.
It feels a lot like a pointless ritual that men go through merely because women are pious enough to believe in it. Nothing is gained from the experience but the opportunity to get laid. Which puts you in an awkward position anyway, because you've just had sex with someone you don't know.
Add to that all the time spent working out and making yourself trendy to gain an advantage over the next guy in the club, and you have a recipe for a decadent, shallow, atomized culture that gives one the impression that civilization is in its last throes.
..... that must be the stupidest thing I've read in a very long time
On July 24 2013 03:46 GreenGringo wrote: ........ a decadent, shallow, atomized culture that gives one the impression that civilization is in its last throes.
Funny that reading comments like yours gives me the same impression. There's nothing quite like holding the gavel ehh? Oh well!
I'm calling it for what it is. It's not the place where you go to develop a relationship. It's just an instant gratification thing, and that's not really defensible, especially when you consider the time investment of the average male clubber.
I'd like to point out that not all people who go to clubs or even fraternity parties are drunk or high. I was always completely sober when I went. I had a good time when there was good music. If I got to dance with an attractive young woman, that was just a bonus. I'll be perfectly honest and admit most of the time I didn't end up dancing with anyone, but I didn't care if the music was good. Could I dance by myself in my room blasting my favorite dance music? Yes. Would it be as fun as being around other people dancing to the same song and having a good time? No.
When it comes to dancing, if you are afraid of looking like an idiot you probably won't enjoy it nearly as much as you could. I got to learn dance moves from people in Hip-Hop dancing groups because I was at the same party or club as them just having a good time. I've been the only white guy at an African American fraternity party and still had a great time.
And what I miss about clubbing/going to parties are these experiences.
On July 24 2013 03:46 GreenGringo wrote: ........ a decadent, shallow, atomized culture that gives one the impression that civilization is in its last throes.
Funny that reading comments like yours gives me the same impression. There's nothing quite like holding the gavel ehh? Oh well!
I'm calling it for what it is. It's not the place where you go to develop a relationship. It's just an instant gratification thing, and that's not really defensible, especially when you consider the time investment of the average male clubber.
Lol, how is it not defensible? I don't want to develop a deep relationship with people when I go to a club. You go there either to just have a good time with your friends, or pick up girls. Maybe in your world you can only have fun with people after knowing them for 10+ years and sex is only allowed after marriage, but that's not how it works for most people.
On July 24 2013 03:46 GreenGringo wrote: ........ a decadent, shallow, atomized culture that gives one the impression that civilization is in its last throes.
Funny that reading comments like yours gives me the same impression. There's nothing quite like holding the gavel ehh? Oh well!
I'm calling it for what it is. It's not the place where you go to develop a relationship. It's just an instant gratification thing, and that's not really defensible, especially when you consider the time investment of the average male clubber.
So your standard for judging activities is based solely around relationship forming potential? That seems silly. And whatever Jersey Shore inspired male clubber archetype you're drawing upon is not a rule by any stretch of the imagination; it is, instead, a shorthanded means of judging others. I also think you are confused as to what "instant" means.
On July 24 2013 03:46 GreenGringo wrote: ........ a decadent, shallow, atomized culture that gives one the impression that civilization is in its last throes.
Funny that reading comments like yours gives me the same impression. There's nothing quite like holding the gavel ehh? Oh well!
I'm calling it for what it is. It's not the place where you go to develop a relationship. It's just an instant gratification thing, and that's not really defensible, especially when you consider the time investment of the average male clubber.
Lol, how is it not defensible? I don't want to develop a deep relationship with people when I go to a club. You go there either to just have a good time with your friends, or pick up girls. Maybe in your world you can only have fun with people after knowing them for 10+ years and sex is only allowed after marriage, but that's not how it works for most people.
Good for you, you just had sex with someone you don't know and will never know.
Such a valuable experience...maybe you'll tell your grandchildren.
On July 24 2013 03:46 GreenGringo wrote: Clubbing, and especially dancing, feels to me a lot like deliberately behaving like idiots because attractive women tend to be idiots.
It feels a lot like a pointless ritual that men go through merely because women are pious enough to believe in it. Nothing is gained from the experience but the opportunity to get laid. Which puts you in an awkward position anyway, because you've just had sex with someone you don't know.
Add to that all the time spent working out and making yourself trendy to gain an advantage over the next guy in the club, and you have a recipe for a decadent, shallow, atomized culture that gives one the impression that civilization is in its last throes.
I didn't understand (electro) clubs and festivals until I took mdma. Then everything made sense. The music made sense, the funny looking people biting their cheeks made sense, the sunglasses at night made sense and dancing felt like having sex for hours.
And I know that sounds stupid and like a recommendation. But I just want to say that its hard to understand for someone who didnt experience it. What I can recommend is one of the countless documentaries about ecstasy/mdma.
Of course there are people who just get drunk and try to get sex but I think those are a minority.
You *don't* need substances to have a good time, FYI.
Sure, they enhance your ability to understand the music, but if you were truly there for the music in the first place then stimulants/psychedelics are not necessary in the first place.
On July 24 2013 03:46 GreenGringo wrote: ........ a decadent, shallow, atomized culture that gives one the impression that civilization is in its last throes.
Funny that reading comments like yours gives me the same impression. There's nothing quite like holding the gavel ehh? Oh well!
I'm calling it for what it is. It's not the place where you go to develop a relationship. It's just an instant gratification thing, and that's not really defensible, especially when you consider the time investment of the average male clubber.
Lol, how is it not defensible? I don't want to develop a deep relationship with people when I go to a club. You go there either to just have a good time with your friends, or pick up girls. Maybe in your world you can only have fun with people after knowing them for 10+ years and sex is only allowed after marriage, but that's not how it works for most people.
Good for you, you just had sex with someone you don't know and will never know.
Such a valuable experience...maybe you'll tell your grandchildren.
Wow, you just played a videogame, what a valuable experience.
Wow, you just traveled to a different county, what a valuable experience.
Wow, you just won the nobel prize, what a valuable experience.
On July 24 2013 03:46 GreenGringo wrote: Clubbing, and especially dancing, feels to me a lot like deliberately behaving like idiots because attractive women tend to be idiots.
It feels a lot like a pointless ritual that men go through merely because women are pious enough to believe in it. Nothing is gained from the experience but the opportunity to get laid. Which puts you in an awkward position anyway, because you've just had sex with someone you don't know.
Add to that all the time spent working out and making yourself trendy to gain an advantage over the next guy in the club, and you have a recipe for a decadent, shallow, atomized culture that gives one the impression that civilization is in its last throes.
I didn't understand (electro) clubs and festivals until I took mdma. Then everything made sense. The music made sense, the funny looking people biting their cheeks made sense, the sunglasses at night made sense and dancing felt like having sex for hours.
And I know that sounds stupid and like a recommendation. But I just want to say that its hard to understand for someone who didnt experience it. What I can recommend is one of the countless documentaries about ecstasy/mdma.
Of course there are people who just get drunk and try to get sex but I think those are a minority.
Taking drugs is a much more sophisticated way to assuage your savage instincts, or whatever, than getting drunk for the Nth time and engaging in some Stone Age dancing ritual.
You actually see the world differently and experience something new. Then you turn the page and you don't need to go back (although it's a shame that clubbers don't share this philosophy).
On July 23 2013 12:36 decafchicken wrote: I only go to the club if there's a DJ in town i actually like, which is every month or so in chicago. For some reason the shittiest clubs have the best promoters which is annoying.
If i'm just going out i'll just go to the bar because night clubs are kinda shitty for just going out and getting drunk and having fun.
EPT
