So, recently, in between my endless strings of SCII games and LoL matches that usually last well into the night (making me wonder if I should get myself checked for insomnia), I have been hitting the club dance floors again as my friends have lured me back into that large loud room exploding with drunk peoples. And somehow, it felt like I'm enjoying it more than I used to back when I was a freshman/sophomore.
And so I took a moment to reflect back. And I came to the conclusion that there are certain things that makes people get clubbing to grow in them.
Premise 1: Some people like clubbing, while others do not (here I am not differentiating the people who go clubbing whether they like it or not due to "peer pressure" or other external influences)
Premise 2: There must be something different between the two groups of people mentioned above, whether it be nature (born shy/quiet vs outgoing/loud personality, genes, etc.) or nurture (growing new sets of interests associated with clubbing e.g. style/fashion, alcohol, exercise/workout, attraction to opposite (or same) gender, house/electro/R&B music genres, socializing with people with interests similar to those mentioned above)
Inference and conclusion: People who do not like going to clubs have few to no interests in its associating factors i.e. music genre, alcohol, attraction, dance etc. This may be due to their personality or gene, making them avoid the above interests and people associated with such interests. Or, they may simply not have had the opportunity or chance to mingle with such groups (which would make sense because many clubbers are really social and friendly, so no reason to avoid them when approached, really). People who have grown to like clubbing over time have been having growing interest in its associative factors, or have had friends as such and have been slowly or quickly integrated in clubbing community. People who fall in love with clubbing the first time they go are just born that way and are directly comfortable with enjoying its music, atmosphere, people, and related activities.
Thoughts ? Does my logic have flaws ? (Well, I'm sure you could poke holes in it, like for every argument, but what I really mean is, does it make no sense at all and have I wasted my time trying to make a cognitive model that makes no sense) Could someone who absolutely despises nightclubs down to their very bones suddenly wake up one morning and realize how much they've missed in life ? Or will they continue living thinking how stupid and a waste of time and money it is to dress up late at night, go to a gigantic hall blasting music to our ear temples packed with drunk people and mindlessly moving their bodies to some monotonic beat? Or will they realize the magic of drowning the mind and body to the effects of massive house/electro drops of Knife Party and Afrojack, dancing to its beat with a cute lady, body up close and smelling her perfume, with perhaps a chance of continuing into a prolonged adventure with her throughout the night ?
PS: If you want to share some awesome venues/events near your places, it would be nice Also, feel free to share house/electro/r&b music you like, and raves and other events you know are upcoming and are planning to attend
On July 23 2013 12:32 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote: I absolutely despite clubbing, but it's the place with the highest percentage of young single women in one place so needs must.
Right there with you. I honestly don't know a better place to find single, attractive girls.
I'm quite outgoing when I want to be and I love my booze, but I hate clubbing.
Partly because holy shit... I can't hear a thing and nobody can hear me. It's like the natural habitat of people who either never listen to each other anyway or can lip read wtf...
Much prefer pubs, musicy places with areas you can dance in and areas you can chat in (live music places etc) tbh.
So basically your 'inference and conclusion' being that I have few interests in music (not true, love music) alcohol (nope, love it) dancing (you should see my skillz yo, terribad but I love it when I get going) and all that kinda stuff are not true for me. I just prefer places I can bloody communicate with people. It seems clubs/ clubbing is where you go when you cba with all the 'proper' social aspects like talking and getting to know people and just want to latch onto people and stare at them all night while dancing, because you have nowt in common and can't hold a conversation.
I only go to the club if there's a DJ in town i actually like, which is every month or so in chicago. For some reason the shittiest clubs have the best promoters which is annoying.
If i'm just going out i'll just go to the bar because night clubs are kinda shitty for just going out and getting drunk and having fun.
Just got my tickets for this, gonna be fucking epic. Music festivals are insane:
I love clubbing, I used to hit bars or clubs 7 days a week.
People assume it is just to pick up chicks, but if you go out and enjoy yourself you end up having alot of fun.
You make friends with the security, bartenders, waitresses, dudes and gals both.
It is all about being social. Humans are social animals, as evident by the existence of this forum. Going clubbing, barhopping is like hitting the ladder on starcraft in the social venue. You go out and meet strangers just like you go out and play against strangers; bounce idea's off each other (build orders), etc. You hear peoples life stories, and you grow found of people, and it helps you see the brighter side of life.
I got some sick stories from Barhopping and clubbing both PM me if you want to exchange stories or have a case study on your thesis.
Personally I think the relationship with clubbing is directly related to how positive your mindset is, and how much you like to go out and socialize.
On July 23 2013 12:36 decafchicken wrote: I only go to the club if there's a DJ in town i actually like, which is every month or so in chicago. For some reason the shittiest clubs have the best promoters which is annoying. .
what this guy said. a lot of people, including me, only go to clubs for certain djs. i have no intention to meet new people at clubs but it just happens. all i know is that i'll be going with friends and dancing. i find dancing with girls and grinding to be boring. i like to move a lot.
a lot of people also just take mdma or other drugs and enjoy the music rather than just trying to get laid.
I'm definitely one of those people who don't enjoy it, but it's cool to see the perspective of people who do. I've never been to a club before, but I don't enjoy drinking, drunk people, the type of music, loud music, or crowds, so I imagine that I would hate it. Sitting at home reading a good book is my type of night .
Inference and conclusion: People who do not like going to clubs have few to no interests in its associating factors i.e. music genre, alcohol, attraction, dance etc.
I love all of those things and I can't stand clubbing, the club scene in America at least is awful imo. I'd rather have a house / pool / field party or just go to a regular bar and dance there than go to "the club." Maybe it's just the clubs in Pittsburgh are shitty filled with shitty people, that's probably it.
Inference and conclusion: People who do not like going to clubs have few to no interests in its associating factors i.e. music genre, alcohol, attraction, dance etc.
I love all of those things and I can't stand clubbing, the club scene in America at least is awful imo. I'd rather have a house / pool / field party or just go to a regular bar and dance there than go to "the club." Maybe it's just the clubs in Pittsburgh are shitty filled with shitty people, that's probably it.
i think it really depends on what you do at a club and what kind of people are there. i generally dislike the crowds at most clubs but i still have a good ass time dancing.
Inference and conclusion: People who do not like going to clubs have few to no interests in its associating factors i.e. music genre, alcohol, attraction, dance etc.
I love all of those things and I can't stand clubbing, the club scene in America at least is awful imo. I'd rather have a house / pool / field party or just go to a regular bar and dance there than go to "the club." Maybe it's just the clubs in Pittsburgh are shitty filled with shitty people, that's probably it.
i think it really depends on what you do at a club and what kind of people are there. i generally dislike the crowds at most clubs but i still have a good ass time dancing.
Yeah clubs are real hit and miss (probably more miss), read some reviews before you go out to one. If you find a club that isn't super pretentious with a bunch of douchey guys and snotty girls than you'll have a great time. Or i guess if you're a hot chick or a rich dude they're probably pretty enjoyable. The club scene is expanding a lot and new clubs are opening and old ones are being remodeled with electronic dance music getting more mainstream. On the whole i find it easier/more fun to go to a bar with a group of friends and meet people/get drunk/do stupid shit, probably only going to a club if i have a specific reason.
Burner parties or raves are where it's at. Even now rave culture is flooded with "bros".
Why do i love burning man parties?
1) amazing music. Deep / tech / minimal underground 2) artwork and inventions everywhere. Have helped a specific camp throw parties and I must say, there are many talented artists 3) the people - all or most parties are 21+ so the crowd is a bit mature. Not like youll see a dumb 18 y/o or younger Od on MDMA. Awesome vibes. The costumes people wear are so well thought out and creative. Gorgeous women. Lots of generosity and sharing - this includes a plethora of drugs but that's not the point anyway since its all for the music
If you're from the NYC area and want to attend some sick nasty events, PM me. Your mind shall blown.
On July 23 2013 12:36 decafchicken wrote: I only go to the club if there's a DJ in town i actually like, which is every month or so in chicago. For some reason the shittiest clubs have the best promoters which is annoying.
If i'm just going out i'll just go to the bar because night clubs are kinda shitty for just going out and getting drunk and having fun.
This looks sick !!! Is it a rave ? I might book a flight for Georgia for September now LOL.
But yeah, I think there's definitely a heavy influence of what kind of clubs there are near you, as well as what kind of people go clubbing near your town. If only boring people go in groups to just dance by themselves, it definitely ruins the night. If only shitty DJ's are there who play shitty music, then it will also make the night less fun.
I hope to all the people who are not satisfied with the clubs near your neighborhood to go check out other towns with other clubs and people ! Seattle has fantastic clubs, and I strongly recommend visiting.
I used to go out a lot but not so much anymore. It helped that I had friends who were promoters (one was an owner of a particular club) and they helped me understand the nature of clubs themselves better. There's a "right" way to get the most out of them.
For the people who complain about the crowd or the place being too loud, you have control over these things because you can choose the type of club you go to and where it's located. I personally do not like overly crowded places, I also like a place with a dedicated room/lounge/terrace for mingling and getting to know other people and I also look for a more professionally oriented crowd. In Montreal for example there are a few clubs where a lot of Ubisoft people go to, to blow off steam after work or to have a good time. I've met some pretty cool people going out.
For me I like to meet new people and I like to dance. So I go out with friends every so often (not too much nowadays--sometimes once a month is more than enough). I actually don't like to drink very much and will go out completely sober.
On July 23 2013 12:45 Chairman Ray wrote: I'm definitely one of those people who don't enjoy it, but it's cool to see the perspective of people who do. I've never been to a club before, but I don't enjoy drinking, drunk people, the type of music, loud music, or crowds, so I imagine that I would hate it. Sitting at home reading a good book is my type of night .
Same here. I'd rather play video games than go to a club. :D
Yeah I'd like to go to a proper deep trance rave and just go on a six hour musical journey. Too bad I was 14 when all the music I loved was being produced lol. You're definitely right about the age thing, I've been to a couple festivals where there's fucking middle schoolers popping mdma and smoking dabs and I'm just like wtf. You sound like you'd enjoy Electric Forest, people put tons of effort into costumes and decorations and making it truly incredible experience. And of course everyone is super friendly :-D
On July 23 2013 12:32 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote: I absolutely despite clubbing, but it's the place with the highest percentage of young single women in one place so needs must.
Right there with you. I honestly don't know a better place to find single, attractive girls.
Yeah, except it's so fucking loud (at least the clubs I go to) that it's impossible to speak to someone. I do very much like clubbing though.
On July 23 2013 12:41 Jisall wrote: I love clubbing, I used to hit bars or clubs 7 days a week.
People assume it is just to pick up chicks, but if you go out and enjoy yourself you end up having alot of fun.
You make friends with the security, bartenders, waitresses, dudes and gals both.
It is all about being social. Humans are social animals, as evident by the existence of this forum. Going clubbing, barhopping is like hitting the ladder on starcraft in the social venue. You go out and meet strangers just like you go out and play against strangers; bounce idea's off each other (build orders), etc. You hear peoples life stories, and you grow found of people, and it helps you see the brighter side of life.
I got some sick stories from Barhopping and clubbing both PM me if you want to exchange stories or have a case study on your thesis.
Personally I think the relationship with clubbing is directly related to how positive your mindset is, and how much you like to go out and socialize.
This. I find this is a fantastic imagery of clubbing. Starcraft has certain rules, and non-talk-communication is a rule in the game of clubbing. If you can ride the wave of the atmosphere of people and music, you get to learn to use your body to express yourself to a person of interest in the room. People who complain about not being able to talk in clubs means that speech is their strong point i.e. they're good at talking, and that is one of their main tools in socializing. But I think that if you can enjoy the music genre enough, as well as the people, you may find it easier to learn the physical skills needed in clubs i.e. dancing while having fun and sharing this fun mood with strangers around the floor.
Edit: And also about the ladder part. In the beginning, you're uncomfortable having to play strangers, with a fear of failing/losing. So you're all anxious and awkward while playing, constantly worrying what the other person is doing and thinking. You're being ranked by your win/loss ratio, so the match actually has more hanging in the balance. You're out of your comfort zone. I think clubbing is exactly the same. You're out of your comfort zone, with strangers, and with unspoken social rules. It's your job to learn the skills, and learn to enjoy the thrill, just like a SC ladder game.
On July 23 2013 12:32 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote: I absolutely despite clubbing, but it's the place with the highest percentage of young single women in one place so needs must.
Right there with you. I honestly don't know a better place to find single, attractive girls.
ignoring personality of course. if i sat down to watch tv with a girl who enjoyed clubbing she would want to watch american idol because this one boy is super cute and i would want to show her the documentary gasland 2 because gasland 1 was very informative and eye opening
clubs just seem to lack personalized interaction? am i saying it right? its induced social interaction in my eyes. to go to a club is generally to go to get laid (or not if your one of those types...) and it puts you in a room with other like minded people and maybe im just an older soul but thats just not attractive to me in and of itself
As a guy who's not got a particularly attractive face, my luck with the ladies is like 1000 times better when at a bar or in a more casual social situation like a house party where I can actually talk to somebdoy than I ever have in a club.
A good chunk of my highschool friends went to Montreal for uni and their social lives for the last four years has revolved around clubs. My best friend from high-school spins house music at a couple small clubs/lounges every other week and I generally have a good time going out, although I think it's more to do with seeing old friends than the venue (also lounges occasionally have front sitting areas where music isn't too loud so it's possible to have an actual conversation.)
I'm not sure about the whole (outgoing <=> you like clubs) relationship that's implied in the OP. I'm quite happy to converse with any number of people about any number of topics for very long periods of time. I really don't see how this is any less of a social activity than spending all night performing the human equivalent of a mating dance.
As for dancing, I'm actually not too bad at it (I can whip up a mean salsa), but generally don't have fun doing it unless I'm absolutely plastered. I dunno, generally if something is only fun when I'm completely toasted I'm not quite convinced that I actually enjoy it...
On July 23 2013 12:36 decafchicken wrote: I only go to the club if there's a DJ in town i actually like, which is every month or so in chicago. For some reason the shittiest clubs have the best promoters which is annoying. .
what this guy said. a lot of people, including me, only go to clubs for certain djs. i have no intention to meet new people at clubs but it just happens. all i know is that i'll be going with friends and dancing. i find dancing with girls and grinding to be boring. i like to move a lot.
a lot of people also just take mdma or other drugs and enjoy the music rather than just trying to get laid.
This is my take on it.
The concept of going somewhere really noisy to meet girls seems counter intuitive but obviously works for certain types of people.
I'm like 18 now, so I've only been clubbing 1 time, on a cruise. Snuck into the 18+ club, oh god, I'm such a bad boy; anyways, two dude got into a fight over a girl, had to be broken up. Nothing crazy really happened, it wasn't that much fun and honestly the only way I found to have fun in the club was to do the drugs and drinking that others were doing. It honestly felt like highschool in a party situation.
A lot of people think they won't find "the right type of girl in a club" but that's not the right attitude at all. A lot of girls go to a club once in a while for the same thing, looking for single guys. And they may go once every few months or something. Sometimes they are drug along with their friends, or sometimes they just want to go have fun. Doesn't make them a club rat or some ho you don't want any real relationship with. They are actually usually pretty easy to spot and if you are dressed half nice and approach them un-awkwardly you may find something nice
I don't drink, which seems to be half the fun in clubs. I also don't really like to make an ass out of myself with my horrible below white person dancing abilities. I got pushed into going to one once with a few people from work (they wanted me to start being more outgoing) and didn't really like it. I looked around and saw quite a few people having a good time, but I mostly just wandered around.
I just went to Global Dance Festival at Red Rocks, Colorado AND MAN Festivals are TEN TIMES BETTER. Friend of ours owns a party bus and has a sick place for the after party. I did ZERO drugs and didn't even drink much (which was really unexpected, as I planned on getting wasted >.>), it was all about the music and the people around you. I danced so much; solo, and with friends or randoms. I'm for sure going to more festivals, also I WANT TO GO TO TOMORROWLAND and EDC, I heard about it through the party bus friend he has been to both >.<
Also met this amazing chick from Belgium, not even because I was looking to get laid or anything ^_^
If the music is too loud, you need to drink more alcohol. If you thin kit's too crowded, you need to drink more alcohol. If you're insecure, you need to drink more alcohol. If you're bored, you need to drink more alcohol. If you don't think the girls are attractive, you need to drink more alcohol. If you're contemplating about anything other than having fun at a club, you need to drink more alcohol. If you're not enjoying the club, you need to drink more alcohol.
If you don't like alcohol, you need to drink more alcohol.
On July 23 2013 14:25 PassionFruit wrote: If the music is too loud, you need to drink more alcohol. If you thin kit's too crowded, you need to drink more alcohol. If you're insecure, you need to drink more alcohol. If you're bored, you need to drink more alcohol. If you don't think the girls are attractive, you need to drink more alcohol. If you're contemplating about anything other than having fun at a club, you need to drink more alcohol. If you're not enjoying the club, you need to drink more alcohol.
If you don't like alcohol, you need to drink more alcohol.
On July 23 2013 14:25 PassionFruit wrote: If the music is too loud, you need to drink more alcohol. If you thin kit's too crowded, you need to drink more alcohol. If you're insecure, you need to drink more alcohol. If you're bored, you need to drink more alcohol. If you don't think the girls are attractive, you need to drink more alcohol. If you're contemplating about anything other than having fun at a club, you need to drink more alcohol. If you're not enjoying the club, you need to drink more alcohol.
If you don't like alcohol, you need to drink more alcohol.
Not really tbh. You can drink enough booze to down an elephant and still dislike the whole 'clubbing' scene or not have fun. Not everyone enjoys it basically. Suggesting that just 'drinking more alcohol' fixes that is completely bollocks. That's like suggesting someone who dislikes knitting is suddenly going to love it because they are wasted... Not really.
Honestly I hate clubbing because of dancing. If I could go to a club, and chill out at a section of it, I would completely enjoy it since every other aspect of it is fun. Just not dancing. I don't really understand dancing in a club and just find it genuinely boring.
On July 23 2013 14:25 PassionFruit wrote: If the music is too loud, you need to drink more alcohol. If you thin kit's too crowded, you need to drink more alcohol. If you're insecure, you need to drink more alcohol. If you're bored, you need to drink more alcohol. If you don't think the girls are attractive, you need to drink more alcohol. If you're contemplating about anything other than having fun at a club, you need to drink more alcohol. If you're not enjoying the club, you need to drink more alcohol.
If you don't like alcohol, you need to drink more alcohol.
I hate alcohol, but I have an arsenal of other substances to aid me: LSD, MDMA, 2c-b, ketamine, etc..
I've also gone to parties completely sober. Doesn't matter what influence I am under - for me, music = <3
I liked clubbing from age 18-21. During that time, I probably went out around 150 times or more. What made it fun was going with friends and meeting girls. Making out with hot strangers and dancing and getting a high from the music is definitely fun. Taking them home if lucky is even more fun, especially if you can perform :D
At age 23 right now, I'm not really into clubbing. I'm tired of hangovers and I don't want to damage my body too much and some nights just suck anyway. Of course there will be more clubbing for me in the future, but it's not something I'm going to actively seek out.
On July 23 2013 14:21 SafeWord wrote: I just went to Global Dance Festival at Red Rocks, Colorado AND MAN Festivals are TEN TIMES BETTER. Friend of ours owns a party bus and has a sick place for the after party. I did ZERO drugs and didn't even drink much (which was really unexpected, as I planned on getting wasted >.>), it was all about the music and the people around you. I danced so much; solo, and with friends or randoms. I'm for sure going to more festivals, also I WANT TO GO TO TOMORROWLAND and EDC, I heard about it through the party bus friend he has been to both >.<
Also met this amazing chick from Belgium, not even because I was looking to get laid or anything ^_^
Fuck you i'm jealous. The red rocks venue looks UNREAL. And yeah you can have a great time sober, i try not to drink too much during the actual music because it's something you want to experience and remember. There's other ways to enhance that experience though ^_^
I went to EDC chicago and it was pretty fucking amazing. I think i had more fun at Electric Forest though. I've been dying to go to tomorrowland for years but i'll have to settle for tomorrow world this year. next year though!
On July 23 2013 14:34 CustomKal wrote: Honestly I hate clubbing because of dancing. If I could go to a club, and chill out at a section of it, I would completely enjoy it since every other aspect of it is fun. Just not dancing. I don't really understand dancing in a club and just find it genuinely boring.
You dance so you can grind a chick, then make out, then take home, without even having to talk. I hated dancing too but a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do ; )
On July 23 2013 13:11 decafchicken wrote: Yeah I'd like to go to a proper deep trance rave and just go on a six hour musical journey. Too bad I was 14 when all the music I loved was being produced lol. You're definitely right about the age thing, I've been to a couple festivals where there's fucking middle schoolers popping mdma and smoking dabs and I'm just like wtf. You sound like you'd enjoy Electric Forest, people put tons of effort into costumes and decorations and making it truly incredible experience. And of course everyone is super friendly :-D
Haven't gone to any major festivals because I'm broke, but I have friends who go to EForest every year. I will join them one day when I get more monies.
My priority is to make it out to Burning Man first, however. : )!
I thought you were talking about seals. NVM Not really my thing.
On a serious note though I've been clubbing once but it didn't really click with me. I get the draw to getting rid of some energy with the loud music and dancing but I feel like if other things were going on at that time of night I would rather be somewhere else. I'm more of a quiet drinker then a loud and energetic one. A good beer with a few good friends usually appeals to me more.
Disregard the quote btw. That's my older brother's quote and after he said that I got him dancing
Heh. I drink sometimes with friends in drinking bars but clubbing is one of the things I might not do for my entire life, not because I hate it, Just a shy guy in nature.
Inference and conclusion: People who do not like going to clubs have few to no interests in its associating factors i.e. music genre, alcohol, attraction, dance etc.
I love all of those things and I can't stand clubbing, the club scene in America at least is awful imo. I'd rather have a house / pool / field party or just go to a regular bar and dance there than go to "the club." Maybe it's just the clubs in Pittsburgh are shitty filled with shitty people, that's probably it.
Chicago burbs aren't much better. Haven't been to any of the downtown ones, don't exactly have the budget for it though. I used to go to clubs in college. I had fun, but I was single then. Main reason I don't go now is I am engaged and my fiance has a very low tolerance for loud bass. I just think it would be weird to go now by myself. Though, I could probably be talked into going by some close friends.
If you are a guy going to clubs looking for a relationship with a girl then you are doing it wrong. If you are looking for sex then fair enough... but honestly I don't understand that mentality of needing sex to the extent where you will go to all that effort for it. Why can't you just jack it?
I've been with the same girl for three years, and on this spring break this past spring i went to a club in Ireland, I got black out drunk and came to with two attractive women dancing on my leg. I decided it was time for me to leave at that point, Clubbing is good in general for exposure for single people, but for people in a relationship it is a terrible, terrible, relationship threatening time. Case in point: I don't like clubbing, will not do it again. Raise your Dongers.
On July 23 2013 15:42 Narobz wrote: I've been with the same girl for three years, and on this spring break this past spring i went to a club in Ireland, I got black out drunk and came to with two attractive women dancing on my leg. I decided it was time for me to leave at that point, Clubbing is good in general for exposure for single people, but for people in a relationship it is a terrible, terrible, relationship threatening time. Case in point: I don't like clubbing, will not do it again. Raise your Dongers.
I'd say it's more the combination of alcohol and the way women dress at clubs than the clubs themselves. If you can actually have the self-restraint to A) not get drunk and B) not "dance" with women or men, then I don't really a club being an issue. Also helps when you have only about average looks so you don't really have to worry about being hit on.
On July 23 2013 15:42 Narobz wrote: I've been with the same girl for three years, and on this spring break this past spring i went to a club in Ireland, I got black out drunk and came to with two attractive women dancing on my leg. I decided it was time for me to leave at that point, Clubbing is good in general for exposure for single people, but for people in a relationship it is a terrible, terrible, relationship threatening time. Case in point: I don't like clubbing, will not do it again. Raise your Dongers.
I'd say it's more the combination of alcohol and the way women dress at clubs than the clubs themselves. If you can actually have the self-restraint to A) not get drunk and B) not "dance" with women or men, then I don't really a club being an issue. Also helps when you have only about average looks so you don't really have to worry about being hit on.
Well, sure... but if you're not planning to get drunk, aren't going to dance and are actively avoiding the girls... how many reasons are left to go clubbing?
I guess if you're following friends, but then you just end up being Mr Sober.
I went through a major clubbing phase a couple years ago and it was an absolute blast. I don't enjoy it as much anymore, but for a while going out with the guys and picking up chicks on a fairly regular basis was a really positive experience and seemed to be a positive experience for everyone involved.
Inference and conclusion: People who do not like going to clubs have few to no interests in its associating factors i.e. music genre, alcohol, attraction, dance etc. This may be due to their personality or gene, making them avoid the above interests and people associated with such interests. Or, they may simply not have had the opportunity or chance to mingle with such groups (which would make sense because many clubbers are really social and friendly, so no reason to avoid them when approached, really). People who have grown to like clubbing over time have been having growing interest in its associative factors, or have had friends as such and have been slowly or quickly integrated in clubbing community. People who fall in love with clubbing the first time they go are just born that way and are directly comfortable with enjoying its music, atmosphere, people, and related activities.
First off, I agree with your thoughts on dance. People who do not like going to clubs likely have little interest in dancing to that kind of music. However, I can't see your other activities as being logical conclusions to your premise of people liking or not liking clubbing from nature/nurture.
Alcohol. Clubbing is generally expensive with regards to alcohol. It is not true that people who don't go clubbing will have little interest in alcohol. There are a myriad of other ways to have alcohol. This include with friends at a laid back bar and at a sports bar. This also includes the cheap option of buying a 12pack/24pack/30pack or multiple 6 packs and chilling with friends at the evening at the house, possibly with a barbecue, likely with TV or video games. Your conclusion does not logically follow.
Music Genre. If you like dance music, there's an iPod and even more likely a PC or laptop that will play it in higher quality than any club. Its just the music genre and propensity to dance to it that suggests a clubbing atmosphere.
Opportunity to try it out. The reverse is also true: some try it out and find the drinks too expensive, the music too loud, and the place too crowded. Even if clubbers around are often social and friendly, not even club scene is the same in an area. So it's definitely there to try it and never fall in love. It does favor the extroverts, I'll hand you that.
Attraction. I don't think I'll need to elaborate when I say the people that go to clubs are looking to attract a certain type of girl. If that isn't your cup of tea, attraction has nothing to do with your choice to club or not club, it's the type you're attracted to.
I'm freaking shy... but I love clubbing... Its too loud to talk anyhow. And yeah alcohol is totally a driving force in the club. Honestly without alcohol must of those girls wouldn't be dressing sluttily and/or grinding with you and you probably wouldn't be dancing like an idiot.
Rando/Embarasssing Question which I feel is rather important to this post. If I get an erection during......................during, like...........ummm.......some girl grinding her back end on my dick..............uhhhh....keep grinding or terminate????
Clubbing for me ins't about the alchohol, the women or the music. It's about the atmosphere, and those three factors only add to it. What makes it so great is that your putting tons of people, my age (if you pick the right club, im 22), in a dark room where no one can judge too well what you look like, and the idea is to have fun. There are very few places where the frame for everyone is "have fun or go away". This is what creates the awesome atmosphere, everyone wants to enjoy themselves and that's what they are there for. It's the one place serious conversations are rarely welcome, and thats a good thing, because they are always welcome in other times of life, it's nice to go somewhere where the frame is to be fun, impulsive and carefree.
Single, attractive and slutty girls. If you're into that kinda thing then yeah, clubbing's pretty cool. Especially if you look decent and have the courage to talk to people.
Have you ever met someone who misses clubbing after being in a (working/satisfying) relationship? I don't. The exception is that if two people met in a club they keep going together like to prove to each other they were not only going to meet someone. But even this stops rather quickly.
Looking back I was hardcore about clubbing and festivals and it was out of question that this was the thing to do and the place to be. But now, turning 32 and getting married later this year, I have to admit that even in those years i somehow knew - but still did not allow me to realize - that you go clubbing only for two reasons: First, to meet that someone, and second, to distract you as good as you can while you do the first.
I think its rather funny that clubs/bars are considered the best or only choice to find girls/guys. Why? They are like the worst environment to actually make contact and talk to people. Its super loud, dark and people tend to create "closed groups" facing inwards and being even harder to approach. There is also that urban legend about meeting on the dancefloor.. Does not happen, and if, one or maybe even both are so drunk they ussually don't even enjoy (or remember the next day) getting lucky, but therefor end up with .. well, you know what I'm talking about if you are in this thread.
Well, considering i went clubbing from 17 to 25 I don't want to sound to harsh, I had great nights and wonderful memories from this time. But that simply does not change the fact that in this time I was just trying to find someone and I did so in the worst possible place. Even if I would have never ever admitted that back in the days. I would have responded like some of the replies i read here :-)
On July 23 2013 12:41 Jisall wrote: I love clubbing, I used to hit bars or clubs 7 days a week.
People assume it is just to pick up chicks, but if you go out and enjoy yourself you end up having alot of fun.
You make friends with the security, bartenders, waitresses, dudes and gals both.
It is all about being social. Humans are social animals, as evident by the existence of this forum. Going clubbing, barhopping is like hitting the ladder on starcraft in the social venue. You go out and meet strangers just like you go out and play against strangers; bounce idea's off each other (build orders), etc. You hear peoples life stories, and you grow found of people, and it helps you see the brighter side of life.
I got some sick stories from Barhopping and clubbing both PM me if you want to exchange stories or have a case study on your thesis.
Personally I think the relationship with clubbing is directly related to how positive your mindset is, and how much you like to go out and socialize.
This. I find this is a fantastic imagery of clubbing. Starcraft has certain rules, and non-talk-communication is a rule in the game of clubbing. If you can ride the wave of the atmosphere of people and music, you get to learn to use your body to express yourself to a person of interest in the room. People who complain about not being able to talk in clubs means that speech is their strong point i.e. they're good at talking, and that is one of their main tools in socializing. But I think that if you can enjoy the music genre enough, as well as the people, you may find it easier to learn the physical skills needed in clubs i.e. dancing while having fun and sharing this fun mood with strangers around the floor.
Edit: And also about the ladder part. In the beginning, you're uncomfortable having to play strangers, with a fear of failing/losing. So you're all anxious and awkward while playing, constantly worrying what the other person is doing and thinking. You're being ranked by your win/loss ratio, so the match actually has more hanging in the balance. You're out of your comfort zone. I think clubbing is exactly the same. You're out of your comfort zone, with strangers, and with unspoken social rules. It's your job to learn the skills, and learn to enjoy the thrill, just like a SC ladder game.
Adding to this, too often people think of what the club gives them. Totally wrong approach to clubbing, that is why you won't approach hot chicks, go dancing like an idiot, or socialize with people. Instead ask yourself what you can give the club. Can you give that hot chick the experience of a lifetime by meeting an incredable dude, can you bust a move from the soul and end up making peoples nights and encouraging others to follow suit, can you go up to people and make their night better because you have so much love to share, that you have to get it out or you will burst.
That is the mentality you have to go in with, really in anything you do. #yolo.
On July 23 2013 16:57 Chosi wrote: Have you ever met someone who misses clubbing after being in a (working/satisfying) relationship? I don't. The exception is that if two people met in a club they keep going together like to prove to each other they were not only going to meet someone. But even this stops rather quickly.
Looking back I was hardcore about clubbing and festivals and it was out of question that this was the thing to do and the place to be. But now, turning 32 and getting married later this year, I have to admit that even in those years i somehow knew - but still did not allow me to realize - that you go clubbing only for two reasons: First, to meet that someone, and second, to distract you as good as you can while you do the first.
I think its rather funny that clubs/bars are considered the best or only choice to find girls/guys. Why? They are like the worst environment to actually make contact and talk to people. Its super loud, dark and people tend to create "closed groups" facing inwards and being even harder to approach. There is also that urban legend about meeting on the dancefloor.. Does not happen, and if, one or maybe even both are so drunk they ussually don't even enjoy (or remember the next day) getting lucky, but therefor end up with .. well, you know what I'm talking about if you are in this thread.
Well, considering i went clubbing from 17 to 25 I don't want to sound to harsh, I had great nights and wonderful memories from this time. But that simply does not change the fact that in this time I was just trying to find someone and I did so in the worst possible place. Even if I would have never ever admitted that back in the days. I would have responded like some of the replies i read here :-)
I actually know a couple of people who miss clubs (mostly girls) even if they're in a working relationship. I think it's inherent in them seeing as clubs are the places in which fashion matters the most and its result can be seen directly by guys' reactions to them, and seeing how girls are crazed about fashions, well .. you make the connection.
Clubs are optimal for dancing, enjoying the feel of electro/house bass drops blasting our of those ginormous speakers music, and sharing this experience with strangers of the opposite gender. You're right in that you're not supposed to go looking for your significant other. The word 'significant' does not apply, although it MAY happen (nothing is impossible in life).
""closed groups" facing inward" - you've clearly been going to the wrong clubs. This is what we mean by "the wrong people" in clubs. Urban legend ? It's no legend, to go clubbing, hooking up with a girl, and having a one-night-stand. It may be for you, but those of us who've experienced it know otherwise.
32 is by no means an age where you're out of the clubbing environment. I know a DJ working at Boeing, who is 29, and is having the time of his life DJing at clubs and enjoying the atmosphere. I myself am 23 now, turning 24 in September, and I saw a guy my age post up there that his clubbing experience steamed out. It's all about the mindset. Think young, live young. You have the freedom to like what you want, and live as you want. If you are into clubs and related activities, I think you should keep at it regardless of your age. Hell, I even know people in their early 40's who go to high-class nightclubs, and they're fit, dress appropriately to the environment, and look and act young. So no, age is not an excuse.
I think it really depends on what you enjoy. I love partying and drinking with my friends, but I dislike clubs and tend to steer parties away from clubbing. I prefer either going to someones home and drinking together there, or go out to bars/restaurants and drink there. My main problem with clubbing is that A) The music is too loud, what's the point of being social when you can't talk. B) I dislike dancing. It's fun for a few minutes to go crazy if it's a song you like, but some of my friends can literally stand around on a dance floor for hours... so hot and boring. C) It can be quite expensive.
Some people agree with me but make the case that clubbing is a good way to meet new people. I disagree, I've never met anyone at a club who became anything even like an aquantiance. Sure, you can talk a bit to some unknown people at the... smoking spot? (don't know if there's a better english term) But you certainly can't "get to know" someone inside a club when the music is pumping.
Inference and conclusion: People who do not like going to clubs have few to no interests in its associating factors i.e. music genre, alcohol, attraction, dance etc. This may be due to their personality or gene, making them avoid the above interests and people associated with such interests. Or, they may simply not have had the opportunity or chance to mingle with such groups (which would make sense because many clubbers are really social and friendly, so no reason to avoid them when approached, really). People who have grown to like clubbing over time have been having growing interest in its associative factors, or have had friends as such and have been slowly or quickly integrated in clubbing community. People who fall in love with clubbing the first time they go are just born that way and are directly comfortable with enjoying its music, atmosphere, people, and related activities.
First off, I agree with your thoughts on dance. People who do not like going to clubs likely have little interest in dancing to that kind of music. However, I can't see your other activities as being logical conclusions to your premise of people liking or not liking clubbing from nature/nurture.
Alcohol. Clubbing is generally expensive with regards to alcohol. It is not true that people who don't go clubbing will have little interest in alcohol. There are a myriad of other ways to have alcohol. This include with friends at a laid back bar and at a sports bar. This also includes the cheap option of buying a 12pack/24pack/30pack or multiple 6 packs and chilling with friends at the evening at the house, possibly with a barbecue, likely with TV or video games. Your conclusion does not logically follow.
Music Genre. If you like dance music, there's an iPod and even more likely a PC or laptop that will play it in higher quality than any club. Its just the music genre and propensity to dance to it that suggests a clubbing atmosphere.
Opportunity to try it out. The reverse is also true: some try it out and find the drinks too expensive, the music too loud, and the place too crowded. Even if clubbers around are often social and friendly, not even club scene is the same in an area. So it's definitely there to try it and never fall in love. It does favor the extroverts, I'll hand you that.
Attraction. I don't think I'll need to elaborate when I say the people that go to clubs are looking to attract a certain type of girl. If that isn't your cup of tea, attraction has nothing to do with your choice to club or not club, it's the type you're attracted to.
What I meant was, perhaps there could be a positive correlation between the number of the factors mentioned above a person likes, and how likely they are going to enjoying clubs. Effectively, the only thing I've done is list up some features that are often present when associated with a night of clubbing i.e. alcohol, dress and fashion, electro/house music, dancing, attraction to opposite gender, physical fitness. I've then associated these with the likelihood of a person who would enjoy club atmosphere.
Just imagine a person who likes 'Martin Garrix - Animals' and one who doesn't. Which is more likely to welcome that song in a club ? Of course the former, right ? So who is more likely to have fun there?
So yeah, maybe I got the relationship wrong: most people who enjoy clubs enjoy the factors mentioned above, and not vice versa (people who enjoy fashion, drinking, sex, electro/house music, may not necessarily enjoy club atmosphere)
Personally I would enjoy it so much more if it didn't take all of my sleep (I am very very bad at unstable sleep schedules) and most of the clubs doesn't really play music which I enjoy
but there is one club where I usually allways find some of my friends so I enjoy that place alot when I finally manage to make me go clubbing.
I just hate it to bits when I'm "forced" there and I am tired or not in the mood, both are needed or else a very outgoing and talkative me won't initiate social activity :p
i can't stand the music (if i had to describe it in one word - braindead) and i can't stand the volume. i also cannot stand a good number of the people (mainly guys) who frequent the clubbing scene - watching a dude beat the shit out of another dude in a pool of dirt, blood and glass is not my thing.
having said that, there have been times when i've enjoyed myself. i've gotta be well drunk and with people i really like to be in the mood to stay somewhere for more than an hour.
I actually do not understand what you do when you go clubbing or anything remotly like that. What is the activity here and what do you actually do when going clubbing ? What is the purpose or fun in it ?
Can't stand clubbing,, most of the time.. I do enjoy blues and jazz clubs, etc. Sadly they are not the best place to meet women when you're in your early twenties.
It was all about the mindless 'get drunk and get crazy' with your mates back in the college days, occasionally pulling some crazy chicks or making some new friends there. But nowadays I simply don't quite enjoy the club scene anymore (in my mid 20s), good mates are all far away from me or some of them decided to take less alcohol now, we/i enjoy more of a nice dinner in a good atmosphere that i can actually talk and get to know people. Good company comes first and then alcohol second.
I enjoy going to events for some good fun and hella good music. Mind you, I'm not talking about what one usually might think of by clubbing, although in the cold seasons the events are in clubs. I only go to events where I know for a fact that the music will be really good. I don't drink much, but I might have some MDMA (none of that pill roulette for me).
The music is front and center in this experince. Not the social part, not the drinking part not even the drugs. If I don't love the djs that are playing I have to reason to go out. Guys like Ricardo Villalobos, ZIP, and the arpiar gang (my favorites by far and also my fellow nationals) make and play some INCREDIBLE deep house.
On July 23 2013 19:04 Holy_AT wrote: I actually do not understand what you do when you go clubbing or anything remotly like that. What is the activity here and what do you actually do when going clubbing ? What is the purpose or fun in it ?
Inference and conclusion: People who do not like going to clubs have few to no interests in its associating factors i.e. music genre, alcohol, attraction, dance etc. This may be due to their personality or gene, making them avoid the above interests and people associated with such interests. Or, they may simply not have had the opportunity or chance to mingle with such groups (which would make sense because many clubbers are really social and friendly, so no reason to avoid them when approached, really). People who have grown to like clubbing over time have been having growing interest in its associative factors, or have had friends as such and have been slowly or quickly integrated in clubbing community. People who fall in love with clubbing the first time they go are just born that way and are directly comfortable with enjoying its music, atmosphere, people, and related activities.
First off, I agree with your thoughts on dance. People who do not like going to clubs likely have little interest in dancing to that kind of music. However, I can't see your other activities as being logical conclusions to your premise of people liking or not liking clubbing from nature/nurture.
Alcohol. Clubbing is generally expensive with regards to alcohol. It is not true that people who don't go clubbing will have little interest in alcohol. There are a myriad of other ways to have alcohol. This include with friends at a laid back bar and at a sports bar. This also includes the cheap option of buying a 12pack/24pack/30pack or multiple 6 packs and chilling with friends at the evening at the house, possibly with a barbecue, likely with TV or video games. Your conclusion does not logically follow.
Music Genre. If you like dance music, there's an iPod and even more likely a PC or laptop that will play it in higher quality than any club. Its just the music genre and propensity to dance to it that suggests a clubbing atmosphere.
Opportunity to try it out. The reverse is also true: some try it out and find the drinks too expensive, the music too loud, and the place too crowded. Even if clubbers around are often social and friendly, not even club scene is the same in an area. So it's definitely there to try it and never fall in love. It does favor the extroverts, I'll hand you that.
Attraction. I don't think I'll need to elaborate when I say the people that go to clubs are looking to attract a certain type of girl. If that isn't your cup of tea, attraction has nothing to do with your choice to club or not club, it's the type you're attracted to.
Music gets outputed by speakers last time I checked, not ipods or pcs. How can you compere some sick beats played off vinyl and outed by a Funktion One sound system to listening to an ipod on headphones? Of course shit clubs got shit djs that play low bitrate shit tracks on cds and shit sound sistems, but that's your fault for going where the peer pressure takes you.
Yeah I just don't like most music in clubs (see above post), but that's just me.
I'd much rather drink something nice, with people that can string sentences together. I think as part of growing up, most people work out what they like to do, then have to confidence to just go and do it, regardless of peer pressure.
On July 23 2013 20:12 MoonfireSpam wrote: Yeah I just don't like most music in clubs (see above post), but that's just me.
I'd much rather drink something nice, with people that can string sentences together. I think as part of growing up, most people work out what they like to do, then have to confidence to just go and do it, regardless of peer pressure.
Well done for lasting 3 pages before seals.
Thanks, I appreciate it. I really tried hard Notice it's still on the top three most recent threads ! :D
1. The people you go with. If you go out with a large group of friends, you're more likely to have a good time than if you go with a small group or people you don't really know/like, or even alone.
2. The music. If you enjoy the music you're more likely to enjoy the evening.
3. Your level of intoxication. If you're drunk or high (a lot of clubs in London are populated mostly by people who are on mdma or cocaine) you'll have a great time. I've even been clubbing on shrooms and it was a brilliant experience.
4. Just how sociable you are. If you're comfortable with talking to strangers and dancing in public and such, you'll be fine. If you find most other people insufferable you'll never want to go near them.
the more i've the more i hate noisy places...i think i've just turned more cynical as well. but i used to club most weekends back in uni...but these days anything over 80db (apart from concert and movies) is a no go for me.
Personally, I find that older you get more tiresome clubs get. Most of college I was constantly attending frat parties, clubs, and electronic fests. When I started working, I've gradually started to become less and less extroverted to the point where attending weddings, couple bars after work, and occasional clubbing with co-workers or visiting friends was the entirety of my social activities. The hot blonde I used to hit on now looks like a dirty whore, the drinks now taste like more water than liquor, the music sounds more and more like shit, and the money looks better in my portfolio than in the bartenders hands. It was fun while it lasted, in tha club is the only place to be when you are a young, attractive, and looking to get laid. Don't get it twisted though if you are older, fatter, and still looking to get laid after couple kids it is a "closed" party.
I mostly go to clubs to enjoy watching some drama and people fighting drunkenly plus drinking with my friends in such an atmosphere is usually pretty fun. I would probably get more enjoyment out of reading a good book alone in home and I mostly listen to black metal and drone/ambient music but sometimes meeting people and partying is a nice change. The clubs in and around my town are incredibly unfriendly though, all kinds of wars with nearby towns etc so there's always something going on. The big downside however is that I can never look at girls in clubs because I think they all look gross as shit without exception.
On July 23 2013 14:25 PassionFruit wrote: If the music is too loud, you need to drink more alcohol. If you thin kit's too crowded, you need to drink more alcohol. If you're insecure, you need to drink more alcohol. If you're bored, you need to drink more alcohol. If you don't think the girls are attractive, you need to drink more alcohol. If you're contemplating about anything other than having fun at a club, you need to drink more alcohol. If you're not enjoying the club, you need to drink more alcohol.
If you don't like alcohol, you need to drink more alcohol.
On July 23 2013 14:25 PassionFruit wrote: If the music is too loud, you need to drink more alcohol. If you thin kit's too crowded, you need to drink more alcohol. If you're insecure, you need to drink more alcohol. If you're bored, you need to drink more alcohol. If you don't think the girls are attractive, you need to drink more alcohol. If you're contemplating about anything other than having fun at a club, you need to drink more alcohol. If you're not enjoying the club, you need to drink more alcohol.
If you don't like alcohol, you need to drink more alcohol.
Quick question; How drunk are you when you enter the club or the clubs dance floor?
In my experience, i was an early starter to the club scene as my brother constantly went out and all his friends/my cousins. I was 15 when i could get into clubs in my city due to all the bouncers knowing my other family members. Even getting into Over 21s clubs, quite strange. Anyway, i quickly grew out of this phase and by the time i was 19? I think i ventured into a club for the last time. The loud (but 90% of the time good music) just makes it impossible to get a conversation going with people, and i feel way to rapey to do what everyone else does and just randomly dry hump girls and see if u "pull them" so i just turned to pubs if i go out now. Seem to get the best of everything in there. Cheaper alcohol, better atmosphere if you go to watch sports events, and even some of them play music.
So in my view, its not personality the reason why people like going to clubs, it's more of a "hey man i went to the club last night and go sooo wasted, pulled some fit bird had an amazing time" more of an ego boosting adventure and an excuse to get so drunk you lose control and make society look stupid. Of course there are people who go out and actually have a good time, have a nice dance and a social drink and enjoy themselves whilst being incontrol, but then theres 90% of people who are just spoiling it for everyone else.
I love clubbing. Or atleast i love dancinng my ass off at some club playing cool electronic music.
That being said i live in a quite small city by any global standard so we dont really have the american style club scene here. I was in Miami this easter and the clubds there were atrocious. The music was good, but literally everything else was just for rich people showing off their money.
Some of my happiest moments have been while watching djs play fantastic livesets in the right setting. Just losing yourself completely to the music is fantastic. Doesn't matter if im drunk or completely sober, if the music is good I'm gonna rav my ass off and have a good time.
If you like dancing, raves are much better... more space, less ''gangsta'' attittude. If you like music, raves are more likely better (more specific genres, less generic) If you like getting fucked up (alcohol or else), raves are definitly better.... more drugs, less judgmental bastards, more support when things go wrong. If you like the people, raves are waaaay better... people are far more open minded, less narcissist ''bros.
If you like to go clubbing, I suggest you one thing.... Leave your ego/pride and attitude at home and try out a music festival/rave The experience is that much better.
On July 23 2013 12:32 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote: I absolutely despite clubbing, but it's the place with the highest percentage of young single women in one place so needs must.
Right there with you. I honestly don't know a better place to find single, attractive girls.
At the uni? There's a correlation between education and physical shape, so you have an above average quota of physical attractiveness, you find a larger variety of personalities, because you're not excluding women who simply don't like clubbing, and the girls wear much less make-up than in clubs, so what you see is what you get.
I enjoy dance music and enjoy dancing but have no real desire to go clubbing.
1. Dance music played at clubs is mediocre at best, I don't dance to meh music. 2. I have no desire to be around drunk people or to be drunk. 3. The ability to dance well and look good while drunk isn't high on my priority list for a mate.
Never been a huge fan but I had some cool moments the 19-20-21 range.
However the older I got the less I liked it. Right now, at 28, there's almost no way I'm going to a club. The alcohol is way too expansive, I already have a gf, dispise club music and often you cant sit...
To be honest, its like getting drunk. That was the coolest thing to do at 20 but now at 28 I think it fucking sucks.
I like going to clubs mostly to hear the music/see the DJs (I'm a bedroom DJ myself so I can appreciate a well mixed set). I'd say I'm a shy person and I don't like disco clubs where you are faced away from the DJ and don't care about the music too much - unless I'm proper drunk of course. One thing I really don't like is when the sound is much louder than the hardware can handle, so I mostly wear earplugs - they improve the sound quality by filtering nasty high frequencies, protect hearing and make it easier to listen to speech - definitely something worth purchasing
Here are some of my favourite DJs playing (I've been to the first party): + Show Spoiler +
Seeing knife party live pretty much blew my brain out. Hearing it in the club just doesn't compare.
Porter robinson live was pretty good too. Can't believe martin garrix is only 17 ~.~ Afrojack is way too pop for me. And he got paris hilton into being a resident dj at one of the greatest clubs ever which is a crime against humanity (amnesia @ ibiza)
There so much more to clubbing than alcohol and getting laid. Since i stopped getting wasted and feeling like i needed to pull everytime i went out when i was about 19, i started to enjoy clubbing a lot more. I suggest going with a good group of friends and try to have FUN instead of drinking way too much alcohol or caring about girls. You realise the atmosphere is great, music and dancing is sick, and meeting new people is epic. As long as your not on the dance floor there is plenty of seating areas inside the club and out to chat, as i often find myself doing, and you meet random people you'll never seen again. This is actually a good thing, you can have conversations you wouldn't have with someone you knew and you may bump into them again if you club in the same place, and share banter. It's just an awesome experience unless you go with a girlfriend whos prone to crying when drunk or your friends are arseholes who get into fights or drink till they puke.
On July 23 2013 22:41 aksfjh wrote: I just don't like being around people that are high.
While I'm not necessarily this way, my girlfriend is; I can empathize some. One thing I've noticed about clubbing is that it really isn't for everyone. The emphasis on getting drunk or high with friends feels like a return to peer-pressure situations, and not a fun time. If I don't drink or do drugs because I don't think those two are good for me as a person, then I'm pretty much sunk in a club since I'm not going to be drinking or doing MDMA with anyone in there; they might as well just not talk to me lol. Also, I find that when people become high/drunk they find themselves (what they say and do) much more funny than it actually is, and another person has to be similarly drunk/high to appreciate it and laugh.
Whenever I go to a club, I get the repeated feeling that so many people are trying convince themselves they are having fun. They are trying to get lost in the fun that others are showing they are having, trying to link into a collective emotion.
Above all, they are simply trying to fulfill the social need, trying to fit in, trying to connect with others. And I'd argue that a club is one of the worst places to try and feel connected. The suffocating music and crowd, the excessive intoxication, the superficiality... They all foster shallow connections rather than deep, people do not get fulfilled from such activities.
On July 24 2013 02:19 Artax wrote: Whenever I go to a club, I get the repeated feeling that so many people are trying convince themselves they are having fun. They are trying to get lost in the fun that others are showing they are having, trying to link into a collective emotion.
Above all, they are simply trying to fulfill the social need, trying to fit in, trying to connect with others. And I'd argue that a club is one of the worst places to try and feel connected. The suffocating music and crowd, the excessive intoxication, the superficiality... They all foster shallow connections rather than deep, people do not get fulfilled from such activities.
Here's a hint; not all activities in life are "fulfilling".
On July 24 2013 02:19 Artax wrote: Whenever I go to a club, I get the repeated feeling that so many people are trying convince themselves they are having fun. They are trying to get lost in the fun that others are showing they are having, trying to link into a collective emotion.
Above all, they are simply trying to fulfill the social need, trying to fit in, trying to connect with others. And I'd argue that a club is one of the worst places to try and feel connected. The suffocating music and crowd, the excessive intoxication, the superficiality... They all foster shallow connections rather than deep, people do not get fulfilled from such activities.
Here's a hint; not all activities in life are "fulfilling".
On July 24 2013 02:13 UdderChaos wrote: There so much more to clubbing than alcohol and getting laid. Since i stopped getting wasted and feeling like i needed to pull everytime i went out when i was about 19, i started to enjoy clubbing a lot more. I suggest going with a good group of friends and try to have FUN instead of drinking way too much alcohol or caring about girls. You realise the atmosphere is great, music and dancing is sick, and meeting new people is epic. As long as your not on the dance floor there is plenty of seating areas inside the club and out to chat, as i often find myself doing, and you meet random people you'll never seen again. This is actually a good thing, you can have conversations you wouldn't have with someone you knew and you may bump into them again if you club in the same place, and share banter. It's just an awesome experience unless you go with a girlfriend whos prone to crying when drunk or your friends are arseholes who get into fights or drink till they puke.
I went to club once, with my friends from uni - they insisted me to go. I didn't want to flirt with girls because I had a gf, I didn't want to dance because I hate it if I am not drunk. I didn't want to drink too much alcohol. I just tried to have FUN. But I couldn't talk because the music was too loud. The air was filled with smoke. And the worst thing: I couldn't do my math What a terrible experience...
On July 24 2013 02:19 Artax wrote: Whenever I go to a club, I get the repeated feeling that so many people are trying convince themselves they are having fun. They are trying to get lost in the fun that others are showing they are having, trying to link into a collective emotion.
Above all, they are simply trying to fulfill the social need, trying to fit in, trying to connect with others. And I'd argue that a club is one of the worst places to try and feel connected. The suffocating music and crowd, the excessive intoxication, the superficiality... They all foster shallow connections rather than deep, people do not get fulfilled from such activities.
Here's a hint; not all activities in life are "fulfilling".
Some people just wanna dance
Dancing is rarely just about dancing.
Well that's fine. While you're off in the corner second guessing everyone elses likely drug induced happiness, some people will genuinely be enjoying themselves. Surprise surprise! Clubbing or dancing might not be for you, but psychologizing it in pursuit of basically marginalizing those who do enjoy it is stupid.
Well it depends on the kind of clubbing. I don't like just standing around a club. But if you just get a table and some bottles in a nice club, go there with some friends and girls, it can be great fun, yes more expensive but so worth it.
On July 24 2013 02:19 Artax wrote: Whenever I go to a club, I get the repeated feeling that so many people are trying convince themselves they are having fun. They are trying to get lost in the fun that others are showing they are having, trying to link into a collective emotion.
Above all, they are simply trying to fulfill the social need, trying to fit in, trying to connect with others. And I'd argue that a club is one of the worst places to try and feel connected. The suffocating music and crowd, the excessive intoxication, the superficiality... They all foster shallow connections rather than deep, people do not get fulfilled from such activities.
Here's a hint; not all activities in life are "fulfilling".
Some people just wanna dance
Dancing is rarely just about dancing.
Well that's fine. While you're off in the corner second guessing everyone elses likely drug induced happiness, some people will genuinely be enjoying themselves. Surprise surprise! Clubbing or dancing might not be for you, but psychologizing it in pursuit of basically marginalizing those who do enjoy it is stupid.
I hope you aren't taking my analysis personally. If you really do find it so enjoyable then you shouldn't feel any need to get defensive. I just think people convince themselves they are having more fun than they are, and most are not seeking "just dancing" but are seeking to fulfill social needs. That's why they get dressed up and go to a club with hundreds of people instead of dancing at home. It's purely about trying to fulfill social needs.
On July 24 2013 02:13 UdderChaos wrote: There so much more to clubbing than alcohol and getting laid. Since i stopped getting wasted and feeling like i needed to pull everytime i went out when i was about 19, i started to enjoy clubbing a lot more. I suggest going with a good group of friends and try to have FUN instead of drinking way too much alcohol or caring about girls. You realise the atmosphere is great, music and dancing is sick, and meeting new people is epic. As long as your not on the dance floor there is plenty of seating areas inside the club and out to chat, as i often find myself doing, and you meet random people you'll never seen again. This is actually a good thing, you can have conversations you wouldn't have with someone you knew and you may bump into them again if you club in the same place, and share banter. It's just an awesome experience unless you go with a girlfriend whos prone to crying when drunk or your friends are arseholes who get into fights or drink till they puke.
I went to club once, with my friends from uni - they insisted me to go. I didn't want to flirt with girls because I had a gf, I didn't want to dance because I hate it if I am not drunk. I didn't want to drink too much alcohol. I just tried to have FUN. But I couldn't talk because the music was too loud. The air was filled with smoke. And the worst thing: I couldn't do my math What a terrible experience...
As a recent mathematics major graduate, at university i did my math first, then went clubbing.
On July 24 2013 02:19 Artax wrote: Whenever I go to a club, I get the repeated feeling that so many people are trying convince themselves they are having fun. They are trying to get lost in the fun that others are showing they are having, trying to link into a collective emotion.
Above all, they are simply trying to fulfill the social need, trying to fit in, trying to connect with others. And I'd argue that a club is one of the worst places to try and feel connected. The suffocating music and crowd, the excessive intoxication, the superficiality... They all foster shallow connections rather than deep, people do not get fulfilled from such activities.
Here's a hint; not all activities in life are "fulfilling".
Some people just wanna dance
Dancing is rarely just about dancing.
Well that's fine. While you're off in the corner second guessing everyone elses likely drug induced happiness, some people will genuinely be enjoying themselves. Surprise surprise! Clubbing or dancing might not be for you, but psychologizing it in pursuit of basically marginalizing those who do enjoy it is stupid.
I hope you aren't taking my analysis personally. If you really do find it so enjoyable then you shouldn't feel any need to get defensive. I just think people convince themselves they are having more fun than they are, and most are not seeking "just dancing" but are seeking to fulfill social needs. That's why they get dressed up and go to a club with hundreds of people instead of dancing at home. It's purely about trying to fulfill social needs.
Going to a club to fulfill social needs? Yeah, isn't that the point? And you're right, it isn't just about dancing, it's about dancing in public, so yes, there is a social aspect to clubbing and it's related activities.
I always get bored in clubs, its to loud to really talk, and the dancing feels sooo repetetive (for me at least). At some point my thoughts drift off to something else, like what i will cook the next day......
On July 24 2013 02:19 Artax wrote: Whenever I go to a club, I get the repeated feeling that so many people are trying convince themselves they are having fun. They are trying to get lost in the fun that others are showing they are having, trying to link into a collective emotion.
Above all, they are simply trying to fulfill the social need, trying to fit in, trying to connect with others. And I'd argue that a club is one of the worst places to try and feel connected. The suffocating music and crowd, the excessive intoxication, the superficiality... They all foster shallow connections rather than deep, people do not get fulfilled from such activities.
Here's a hint; not all activities in life are "fulfilling".
Some people just wanna dance
Dancing is rarely just about dancing.
Well that's fine. While you're off in the corner second guessing everyone elses likely drug induced happiness, some people will genuinely be enjoying themselves. Surprise surprise! Clubbing or dancing might not be for you, but psychologizing it in pursuit of basically marginalizing those who do enjoy it is stupid.
I hope you aren't taking my analysis personally. If you really do find it so enjoyable then you shouldn't feel any need to get defensive. I just think people convince themselves they are having more fun than they are, and most are not seeking "just dancing" but are seeking to fulfill social needs. That's why they get dressed up and go to a club with hundreds of people instead of dancing at home. It's purely about trying to fulfill social needs.
Going to a club to fulfill social needs? Yeah, isn't that the point? And you're right, it isn't just about dancing, it's about dancing in public, so yes, there is a social aspect to clubbing and it's related activities.
Now move on to my main point. That the atmosphere of a club only allows shallow connections between people, and therefore does a poor job of fulfilling the need to feel connected to other people. We could make the same argument about texting, for example.
On July 24 2013 02:19 Artax wrote: Whenever I go to a club, I get the repeated feeling that so many people are trying convince themselves they are having fun. They are trying to get lost in the fun that others are showing they are having, trying to link into a collective emotion.
Above all, they are simply trying to fulfill the social need, trying to fit in, trying to connect with others. And I'd argue that a club is one of the worst places to try and feel connected. The suffocating music and crowd, the excessive intoxication, the superficiality... They all foster shallow connections rather than deep, people do not get fulfilled from such activities.
You see, this sounds like a person who's played WoW until they get to level 20 and then says the game sucks and is boring.
Shallowness of connection is exactly what clubs are trying to achieve. Most people who go to clubs and understand its purpose know that they will not be making meaningful and deep connections, and it's exactly what they are looking for. If you really think people are just "trying to convince themselves they are having fun", you've clearly failed hard at feeling the ecstasy emanating from the beat of the music and the dancing to it with the people around you. You have failed to feel the rush of excitement coming from dancing with strangers whom you'll probably never meet again, but with whom you've spent an amazing night. This whole thing is part of the magic of clubbing. And it makes up for some nice memories.
I dearly hope you will be able to experience this excitement one day, and break out of your bitter state. Try to see it in another light: the exploding music is not suffocating but resonates down to your soul, the crowd is a pool of happiness you can dive into, intoxication is not as excessive as you think, and superficiality is something you can enjoy in clubs.
On July 24 2013 02:19 Artax wrote: Whenever I go to a club, I get the repeated feeling that so many people are trying convince themselves they are having fun. They are trying to get lost in the fun that others are showing they are having, trying to link into a collective emotion.
Above all, they are simply trying to fulfill the social need, trying to fit in, trying to connect with others. And I'd argue that a club is one of the worst places to try and feel connected. The suffocating music and crowd, the excessive intoxication, the superficiality... They all foster shallow connections rather than deep, people do not get fulfilled from such activities.
Here's a hint; not all activities in life are "fulfilling".
Some people just wanna dance
Dancing is rarely just about dancing.
Well that's fine. While you're off in the corner second guessing everyone elses likely drug induced happiness, some people will genuinely be enjoying themselves. Surprise surprise! Clubbing or dancing might not be for you, but psychologizing it in pursuit of basically marginalizing those who do enjoy it is stupid.
I hope you aren't taking my analysis personally. If you really do find it so enjoyable then you shouldn't feel any need to get defensive. I just think people convince themselves they are having more fun than they are, and most are not seeking "just dancing" but are seeking to fulfill social needs. That's why they get dressed up and go to a club with hundreds of people instead of dancing at home. It's purely about trying to fulfill social needs.
Why would you go out to the movies to watch a movie when you have a TV/projector and a DVD player at home, or when you have a laptop and can download it HD quality? To be social? Maybe, but I think it's more of a change in atmosphere, a change in environment. If you go to the movies, there's this "good" feeling you don't get to experience when you're in your shorts at home watching the same film. The same thing for restaurants; sure, you can cook yourself a sirloin steak at home and save money, but there's a reason people go to nice restaurants, and it's not because they're trying to fulfill their "social needs". It's just to enjoy man, maybe you should think more simply of this stuff. (Maybe I should, too)
On July 24 2013 02:19 Artax wrote: Whenever I go to a club, I get the repeated feeling that so many people are trying convince themselves they are having fun. They are trying to get lost in the fun that others are showing they are having, trying to link into a collective emotion.
Above all, they are simply trying to fulfill the social need, trying to fit in, trying to connect with others. And I'd argue that a club is one of the worst places to try and feel connected. The suffocating music and crowd, the excessive intoxication, the superficiality... They all foster shallow connections rather than deep, people do not get fulfilled from such activities.
Here's a hint; not all activities in life are "fulfilling".
Some people just wanna dance
Dancing is rarely just about dancing.
Well that's fine. While you're off in the corner second guessing everyone elses likely drug induced happiness, some people will genuinely be enjoying themselves. Surprise surprise! Clubbing or dancing might not be for you, but psychologizing it in pursuit of basically marginalizing those who do enjoy it is stupid.
I hope you aren't taking my analysis personally. If you really do find it so enjoyable then you shouldn't feel any need to get defensive. I just think people convince themselves they are having more fun than they are, and most are not seeking "just dancing" but are seeking to fulfill social needs. That's why they get dressed up and go to a club with hundreds of people instead of dancing at home. It's purely about trying to fulfill social needs.
Going to a club to fulfill social needs? Yeah, isn't that the point? And you're right, it isn't just about dancing, it's about dancing in public, so yes, there is a social aspect to clubbing and it's related activities.
Now move on to my main point. That the atmosphere of a club only allows shallow connections between people, and therefore does a poor job of fulfilling the need to feel connected to other people. We could make the same argument about texting, for example.
Use of the word shallow implies some sort of necessary hierarchy in social interactions, as though there exists this list of "deep" and "shallow" activities with which one can judge the merits of a given activity. I don't think this is the case. There are a lot of people who go to places like bars and clubs with nothing but shallow interaction in mind, this is true, but there are also plenty of people who just want a public place with music they like and a place to dance. It isn't a one size fits all schema.
Recently I went to Lloret de Mar (kind of an European Cancun). 7 Days of clubbing and being drunk. Had a great time, however I discovered I don't like clubbing at all. The Music is shitty, people are generally drunk and unfriendly. You can't talk. Main reason why I don't like clubs is probably the music. Being a musician myself, I don't get house music or todays pop music. There is just no heart in it. The lyrics are beyond stupid compared to older music. Guess I'm born in the wrong decade. Just my 2 cents
On July 24 2013 02:19 Artax wrote: Whenever I go to a club, I get the repeated feeling that so many people are trying convince themselves they are having fun. They are trying to get lost in the fun that others are showing they are having, trying to link into a collective emotion.
Above all, they are simply trying to fulfill the social need, trying to fit in, trying to connect with others. And I'd argue that a club is one of the worst places to try and feel connected. The suffocating music and crowd, the excessive intoxication, the superficiality... They all foster shallow connections rather than deep, people do not get fulfilled from such activities.
Here's a hint; not all activities in life are "fulfilling".
Some people just wanna dance
Dancing is rarely just about dancing.
Well that's fine. While you're off in the corner second guessing everyone elses likely drug induced happiness, some people will genuinely be enjoying themselves. Surprise surprise! Clubbing or dancing might not be for you, but psychologizing it in pursuit of basically marginalizing those who do enjoy it is stupid.
I hope you aren't taking my analysis personally. If you really do find it so enjoyable then you shouldn't feel any need to get defensive. I just think people convince themselves they are having more fun than they are, and most are not seeking "just dancing" but are seeking to fulfill social needs. That's why they get dressed up and go to a club with hundreds of people instead of dancing at home. It's purely about trying to fulfill social needs.
Unfortunately my living room does not contain world class DJs or $10,000 speakers. Sharing that experience with others is amazing as well. Either you just haven't had a good experience or it's just not your thing. This is how i'd re-phrase your sentiments:
Above all, they are simply trying to fulfill the desire connect with others. And I'd argue that a club is one of the best places to try and feel connected. The energetic music and crowd, the liberating intoxication, the simple bliss... They all foster deep connections rather than shallow, people feel fulfilled from such activities
I've literally been to shows were people left crying because it was such a beautiful experience. When you turn around and you see an entire club full of people all feeling the same emotions of happiness it's incredible.
Or you can go and get drunk and try to have sex with something. Plenty of people enjoy those shallow interactions, myself included. Or you can stand in a corner and be miserable, which I have also done. Whatever floats your boat.
I started clubbing at a young age (11-12 years old) and since then I can say to have been doing it for a good 10 years (I'm 24 right now). In this arc of time I've clubbed with everykind of friend and people you can imagine. Regarding the shy/introverse one. For them to enjoy the place you need to have 2 factors (imo):
-Music, duh, if the music that is playing isn't right next to their ally, they will enjoy the clubbing experience as much as marathoner that has to finish their race while shitting themselves... The Dj won't be that much of a factor (anyone in gold league will do just fine for them).
-Group atmosphere, you can't have a party of 2, 3, 4shy guys in a club... they won't know how to ease up and enjoy the vibe... At least 1 in the group needs to make it appealing to the others.
I've really close friend of mine, who doesn't like clubbing nor drinking and a couple of months ago we went to a random party.
First time in years he step into a "club" atmosphere place, with music he didn't listened at all but knew it because of me making him listening to it (Afro music ). The party was really well done, nice lights, awesome djs but.... people around us were like15-17 years old and nobody was dancing. You could see smalls groups here and there but... the dance floor was empty.
My friend, doesn't know a single dance move but he still "yolo" the moment and decide to go with me to the dance floor and "dance". We were dancing for like 20-40 minutes before people started joining hahah. For a newbie that is sober and steps into a club for the first time in years, this scenario would be seen like a super awkward place to be. But to my surprise he had a really good sense of the beat and was moving his body really well, not minding the fact that we were the only 2 people in there. I was only moving along with him, giving him some advice and making little chat about the songs that were beeing played one after the other. Seeing him from the outside, one wouldn't guess how shy and calm he really is.
Hell! he even made a dance move really cool that I'm keeping in my repertoire :D
Drinking booze... well this is really dependant on the personality... My best manfriend/bro usually drinks a couple of shots or 2, 3 heavy cocktails before going into a club. To get that tipsy filling we all love to have . I personally never drink alcohol, not because I don't like it but because it makes it really hard for me to dance at 100+ bpm.
I would go with your second premise and concentrate more on the nurturing part
On July 24 2013 02:19 Artax wrote: Whenever I go to a club, I get the repeated feeling that so many people are trying convince themselves they are having fun. They are trying to get lost in the fun that others are showing they are having, trying to link into a collective emotion.
Above all, they are simply trying to fulfill the social need, trying to fit in, trying to connect with others. And I'd argue that a club is one of the worst places to try and feel connected. The suffocating music and crowd, the excessive intoxication, the superficiality... They all foster shallow connections rather than deep, people do not get fulfilled from such activities.
Here's a hint; not all activities in life are "fulfilling".
Some people just wanna dance
Dancing is rarely just about dancing.
Well that's fine. While you're off in the corner second guessing everyone elses likely drug induced happiness, some people will genuinely be enjoying themselves. Surprise surprise! Clubbing or dancing might not be for you, but psychologizing it in pursuit of basically marginalizing those who do enjoy it is stupid.
I hope you aren't taking my analysis personally. If you really do find it so enjoyable then you shouldn't feel any need to get defensive. I just think people convince themselves they are having more fun than they are, and most are not seeking "just dancing" but are seeking to fulfill social needs. That's why they get dressed up and go to a club with hundreds of people instead of dancing at home. It's purely about trying to fulfill social needs.
Unfortunately my living room does not contain world class DJs or $10,000 speakers. Sharing that experience with others is amazing as well. Either you just haven't had a good experience or it's just not your thing. This is how i'd re-phrase your sentiments:
Above all, they are simply trying to fulfill the desire connect with others. And I'd argue that a club is one of the best places to try and feel connected. The energetic music and crowd, the liberating intoxication, the simple bliss... They all foster deep connections rather than shallow, people feel fulfilled from such activities
I've literally been to shows were people left crying because it was such a beautiful experience. When you turn around and you see an entire club full of people all feeling the same emotions of happiness it's incredible.
Or you can go and get drunk and try to have sex with something. Plenty of people enjoy those shallow interactions, myself included. Or you can stand in a corner and be miserable, which I have also done. Whatever floats your boat.
This guy knows what's up. Whether it be jumping to the beat with 50 000 other people or arm in arm with a bunch of strangers singing along with a song, it's jus a totally surreal experience. I was at EDC Vegas and didn't try to pick up a single girl while the music was playing. My buddy and I just made friends with a bunch of people around us and we all just partied, danced, etc. Not to mention I was sober for a good chunk of the event since I never left the stage to grab more drinks. I just ran on whatever we used to pre-drink. It was an unreal time and we still talk to lots of the people we made friends with down there. We're all planning something huge for next year.
On July 24 2013 02:19 Artax wrote: Whenever I go to a club, I get the repeated feeling that so many people are trying convince themselves they are having fun. They are trying to get lost in the fun that others are showing they are having, trying to link into a collective emotion.
Above all, they are simply trying to fulfill the social need, trying to fit in, trying to connect with others. And I'd argue that a club is one of the worst places to try and feel connected. The suffocating music and crowd, the excessive intoxication, the superficiality... They all foster shallow connections rather than deep, people do not get fulfilled from such activities.
Here's a hint; not all activities in life are "fulfilling".
Some people just wanna dance
Dancing is rarely just about dancing.
Well that's fine. While you're off in the corner second guessing everyone elses likely drug induced happiness, some people will genuinely be enjoying themselves. Surprise surprise! Clubbing or dancing might not be for you, but psychologizing it in pursuit of basically marginalizing those who do enjoy it is stupid.
I hope you aren't taking my analysis personally. If you really do find it so enjoyable then you shouldn't feel any need to get defensive. I just think people convince themselves they are having more fun than they are, and most are not seeking "just dancing" but are seeking to fulfill social needs. That's why they get dressed up and go to a club with hundreds of people instead of dancing at home. It's purely about trying to fulfill social needs.
Going to a club to fulfill social needs? Yeah, isn't that the point? And you're right, it isn't just about dancing, it's about dancing in public, so yes, there is a social aspect to clubbing and it's related activities.
Now move on to my main point. That the atmosphere of a club only allows shallow connections between people, and therefore does a poor job of fulfilling the need to feel connected to other people. We could make the same argument about texting, for example.
Use of the word shallow implies some sort of necessary hierarchy in social interactions, as though there exists this list of "deep" and "shallow" activities with which one can judge the merits of a given activity. I don't think this is the case. There are a lot of people who go to places like bars and clubs with nothing but shallow interaction in mind, this is true, but there are also plenty of people who just want a public place with music they like and a place to dance. It isn't a one size fits all schema.
Sure, this is all subjective. I'm just basing this off of personal experience.
I've talked to people who were sober, and I've talked to people who were intoxicated. The drunk conversations tend to be more shallow, and leave me less socially satisfied.
I've talked to people in a quiet environment, and I've talked to people in a very loud environment where many words can't be heard. The loud environment made the conversation shallow and simple, and left me less socially satisfied.
I've also felt that dancing was not nearly as enjoyable as other physical activities that can be done in greater privacy.
I don't fault anyone for having a different assessment of these relative activities, I just disagree with them.
On July 24 2013 02:19 Artax wrote: Whenever I go to a club, I get the repeated feeling that so many people are trying convince themselves they are having fun. They are trying to get lost in the fun that others are showing they are having, trying to link into a collective emotion.
Above all, they are simply trying to fulfill the social need, trying to fit in, trying to connect with others. And I'd argue that a club is one of the worst places to try and feel connected. The suffocating music and crowd, the excessive intoxication, the superficiality... They all foster shallow connections rather than deep, people do not get fulfilled from such activities.
Here's a hint; not all activities in life are "fulfilling".
Some people just wanna dance
Dancing is rarely just about dancing.
Well that's fine. While you're off in the corner second guessing everyone elses likely drug induced happiness, some people will genuinely be enjoying themselves. Surprise surprise! Clubbing or dancing might not be for you, but psychologizing it in pursuit of basically marginalizing those who do enjoy it is stupid.
I hope you aren't taking my analysis personally. If you really do find it so enjoyable then you shouldn't feel any need to get defensive. I just think people convince themselves they are having more fun than they are, and most are not seeking "just dancing" but are seeking to fulfill social needs. That's why they get dressed up and go to a club with hundreds of people instead of dancing at home. It's purely about trying to fulfill social needs.
Going to a club to fulfill social needs? Yeah, isn't that the point? And you're right, it isn't just about dancing, it's about dancing in public, so yes, there is a social aspect to clubbing and it's related activities.
Now move on to my main point. That the atmosphere of a club only allows shallow connections between people, and therefore does a poor job of fulfilling the need to feel connected to other people. We could make the same argument about texting, for example.
Use of the word shallow implies some sort of necessary hierarchy in social interactions, as though there exists this list of "deep" and "shallow" activities with which one can judge the merits of a given activity. I don't think this is the case. There are a lot of people who go to places like bars and clubs with nothing but shallow interaction in mind, this is true, but there are also plenty of people who just want a public place with music they like and a place to dance. It isn't a one size fits all schema.
Sure, this is all subjective. I'm just basing this off of personal experience.
I've talked to people who were sober, and I've talked to people who were intoxicated. The drunk conversations tend to be more shallow, and leave me less socially satisfied.
I've talked to people in a quiet environment, and I've talked to people in a very loud environment where many words can't be heard. The loud environment made the conversation shallow and simple, and left me less socially satisfied.
I've also felt that dancing was not nearly as enjoyable as other physical activities that can be done in greater privacy.
I don't fault anyone for having a different assessment of these relative activities, I just disagree with them.
Fair enough, it takes gusto to admit the anecdotal limits of ones' own experience, so kudos there. I'll just add that life can be rather surprising when it comes to expectations. For example, one of the best conversations I've ever had with my father happened to take place right outside the front door of a booming club in Cancun, during which we drank an inordinate amount of tequila and sangrita. Similarly, I used to bounce at a club/bar, and I can't even begin to recount how many interesting conversations I've had with patrons I'd have otherwise never met.
If i go clubbing (maybe every 4 to 6 weeks) its all about consuming MDMA and dancing. As I usually go to goa (psy trance) parties i am always surrounded by LSD users and thats totally fine because i dont care and they dont care - everyone just enjoys his trip. You can identify those people (and myself) by the water bottle that we always carry around on the dancefloor
On July 23 2013 12:36 decafchicken wrote: I only go to the club if there's a DJ in town i actually like, which is every month or so in chicago. For some reason the shittiest clubs have the best promoters which is annoying.
If i'm just going out i'll just go to the bar because night clubs are kinda shitty for just going out and getting drunk and having fun.
This looks sick !!! Is it a rave ? I might book a flight for Georgia for September now LOL.
But yeah, I think there's definitely a heavy influence of what kind of clubs there are near you, as well as what kind of people go clubbing near your town. If only boring people go in groups to just dance by themselves, it definitely ruins the night. If only shitty DJ's are there who play shitty music, then it will also make the night less fun.
I hope to all the people who are not satisfied with the clubs near your neighborhood to go check out other towns with other clubs and people ! Seattle has fantastic clubs, and I strongly recommend visiting.
This weekend it is the older brother of TomorrowWorld in Belgium - Tomorrowland ! Here a cool part from last year: (starts at 01:00)
Clubbing, and especially dancing, feels to me a lot like deliberately behaving like idiots because attractive women tend to be idiots.
It feels a lot like a pointless ritual that men go through merely because women are pious enough to believe in it. Nothing is gained from the experience but the opportunity to get laid. Which puts you in an awkward position anyway, because you've just had sex with someone you don't know.
Add to that all the time spent working out and making yourself trendy to gain an advantage over the next guy in the club, and you have a recipe for a decadent, shallow, atomized culture that gives one the impression that civilization is in its last throes.
On July 24 2013 03:46 GreenGringo wrote: ........ a decadent, shallow, atomized culture that gives one the impression that civilization is in its last throes.
Funny that reading comments like yours gives me the same impression. There's nothing quite like holding the gavel ehh? Oh well!
On July 24 2013 03:46 GreenGringo wrote: Clubbing, and especially dancing, feels to me a lot like deliberately behaving like idiots because attractive women tend to be idiots.
It feels a lot like a pointless ritual that men go through merely because women are pious enough to believe in it. Nothing is gained from the experience but the opportunity to get laid. Which puts you in an awkward position anyway, because you've just had sex with someone you don't know.
Add to that all the time spent working out and making yourself trendy to gain an advantage over the next guy in the club, and you have a recipe for a decadent, shallow, atomized culture that gives one the impression that civilization is in its last throes.
I like how your entire rant is flawed at the very base of its assumptions, but I guess such minuscule details do not matter to someone with your massively superior intellect?
On July 24 2013 03:46 GreenGringo wrote: Clubbing, and especially dancing, feels to me a lot like deliberately behaving like idiots because attractive women tend to be idiots.
It feels a lot like a pointless ritual that men go through merely because women are pious enough to believe in it. Nothing is gained from the experience but the opportunity to get laid. Which puts you in an awkward position anyway, because you've just had sex with someone you don't know.
Add to that all the time spent working out and making yourself trendy to gain an advantage over the next guy in the club, and you have a recipe for a decadent, shallow, atomized culture that gives one the impression that civilization is in its last throes.
..... that must be the stupidest thing I've read in a very long time
On July 24 2013 03:46 GreenGringo wrote: ........ a decadent, shallow, atomized culture that gives one the impression that civilization is in its last throes.
Funny that reading comments like yours gives me the same impression. There's nothing quite like holding the gavel ehh? Oh well!
I'm calling it for what it is. It's not the place where you go to develop a relationship. It's just an instant gratification thing, and that's not really defensible, especially when you consider the time investment of the average male clubber.
I'd like to point out that not all people who go to clubs or even fraternity parties are drunk or high. I was always completely sober when I went. I had a good time when there was good music. If I got to dance with an attractive young woman, that was just a bonus. I'll be perfectly honest and admit most of the time I didn't end up dancing with anyone, but I didn't care if the music was good. Could I dance by myself in my room blasting my favorite dance music? Yes. Would it be as fun as being around other people dancing to the same song and having a good time? No.
When it comes to dancing, if you are afraid of looking like an idiot you probably won't enjoy it nearly as much as you could. I got to learn dance moves from people in Hip-Hop dancing groups because I was at the same party or club as them just having a good time. I've been the only white guy at an African American fraternity party and still had a great time.
And what I miss about clubbing/going to parties are these experiences.
On July 24 2013 03:46 GreenGringo wrote: ........ a decadent, shallow, atomized culture that gives one the impression that civilization is in its last throes.
Funny that reading comments like yours gives me the same impression. There's nothing quite like holding the gavel ehh? Oh well!
I'm calling it for what it is. It's not the place where you go to develop a relationship. It's just an instant gratification thing, and that's not really defensible, especially when you consider the time investment of the average male clubber.
Lol, how is it not defensible? I don't want to develop a deep relationship with people when I go to a club. You go there either to just have a good time with your friends, or pick up girls. Maybe in your world you can only have fun with people after knowing them for 10+ years and sex is only allowed after marriage, but that's not how it works for most people.
On July 24 2013 03:46 GreenGringo wrote: ........ a decadent, shallow, atomized culture that gives one the impression that civilization is in its last throes.
Funny that reading comments like yours gives me the same impression. There's nothing quite like holding the gavel ehh? Oh well!
I'm calling it for what it is. It's not the place where you go to develop a relationship. It's just an instant gratification thing, and that's not really defensible, especially when you consider the time investment of the average male clubber.
So your standard for judging activities is based solely around relationship forming potential? That seems silly. And whatever Jersey Shore inspired male clubber archetype you're drawing upon is not a rule by any stretch of the imagination; it is, instead, a shorthanded means of judging others. I also think you are confused as to what "instant" means.
On July 24 2013 03:46 GreenGringo wrote: ........ a decadent, shallow, atomized culture that gives one the impression that civilization is in its last throes.
Funny that reading comments like yours gives me the same impression. There's nothing quite like holding the gavel ehh? Oh well!
I'm calling it for what it is. It's not the place where you go to develop a relationship. It's just an instant gratification thing, and that's not really defensible, especially when you consider the time investment of the average male clubber.
Lol, how is it not defensible? I don't want to develop a deep relationship with people when I go to a club. You go there either to just have a good time with your friends, or pick up girls. Maybe in your world you can only have fun with people after knowing them for 10+ years and sex is only allowed after marriage, but that's not how it works for most people.
Good for you, you just had sex with someone you don't know and will never know.
Such a valuable experience...maybe you'll tell your grandchildren.
On July 24 2013 03:46 GreenGringo wrote: Clubbing, and especially dancing, feels to me a lot like deliberately behaving like idiots because attractive women tend to be idiots.
It feels a lot like a pointless ritual that men go through merely because women are pious enough to believe in it. Nothing is gained from the experience but the opportunity to get laid. Which puts you in an awkward position anyway, because you've just had sex with someone you don't know.
Add to that all the time spent working out and making yourself trendy to gain an advantage over the next guy in the club, and you have a recipe for a decadent, shallow, atomized culture that gives one the impression that civilization is in its last throes.
I didn't understand (electro) clubs and festivals until I took mdma. Then everything made sense. The music made sense, the funny looking people biting their cheeks made sense, the sunglasses at night made sense and dancing felt like having sex for hours.
And I know that sounds stupid and like a recommendation. But I just want to say that its hard to understand for someone who didnt experience it. What I can recommend is one of the countless documentaries about ecstasy/mdma.
Of course there are people who just get drunk and try to get sex but I think those are a minority.
You *don't* need substances to have a good time, FYI.
Sure, they enhance your ability to understand the music, but if you were truly there for the music in the first place then stimulants/psychedelics are not necessary in the first place.
On July 24 2013 03:46 GreenGringo wrote: ........ a decadent, shallow, atomized culture that gives one the impression that civilization is in its last throes.
Funny that reading comments like yours gives me the same impression. There's nothing quite like holding the gavel ehh? Oh well!
I'm calling it for what it is. It's not the place where you go to develop a relationship. It's just an instant gratification thing, and that's not really defensible, especially when you consider the time investment of the average male clubber.
Lol, how is it not defensible? I don't want to develop a deep relationship with people when I go to a club. You go there either to just have a good time with your friends, or pick up girls. Maybe in your world you can only have fun with people after knowing them for 10+ years and sex is only allowed after marriage, but that's not how it works for most people.
Good for you, you just had sex with someone you don't know and will never know.
Such a valuable experience...maybe you'll tell your grandchildren.
Wow, you just played a videogame, what a valuable experience.
Wow, you just traveled to a different county, what a valuable experience.
Wow, you just won the nobel prize, what a valuable experience.
On July 24 2013 03:46 GreenGringo wrote: Clubbing, and especially dancing, feels to me a lot like deliberately behaving like idiots because attractive women tend to be idiots.
It feels a lot like a pointless ritual that men go through merely because women are pious enough to believe in it. Nothing is gained from the experience but the opportunity to get laid. Which puts you in an awkward position anyway, because you've just had sex with someone you don't know.
Add to that all the time spent working out and making yourself trendy to gain an advantage over the next guy in the club, and you have a recipe for a decadent, shallow, atomized culture that gives one the impression that civilization is in its last throes.
I didn't understand (electro) clubs and festivals until I took mdma. Then everything made sense. The music made sense, the funny looking people biting their cheeks made sense, the sunglasses at night made sense and dancing felt like having sex for hours.
And I know that sounds stupid and like a recommendation. But I just want to say that its hard to understand for someone who didnt experience it. What I can recommend is one of the countless documentaries about ecstasy/mdma.
Of course there are people who just get drunk and try to get sex but I think those are a minority.
Taking drugs is a much more sophisticated way to assuage your savage instincts, or whatever, than getting drunk for the Nth time and engaging in some Stone Age dancing ritual.
You actually see the world differently and experience something new. Then you turn the page and you don't need to go back (although it's a shame that clubbers don't share this philosophy).
On July 23 2013 12:36 decafchicken wrote: I only go to the club if there's a DJ in town i actually like, which is every month or so in chicago. For some reason the shittiest clubs have the best promoters which is annoying.
If i'm just going out i'll just go to the bar because night clubs are kinda shitty for just going out and getting drunk and having fun.
On July 24 2013 03:46 GreenGringo wrote: Clubbing, and especially dancing, feels to me a lot like deliberately behaving like idiots because attractive women tend to be idiots.
It feels a lot like a pointless ritual that men go through merely because women are pious enough to believe in it. Nothing is gained from the experience but the opportunity to get laid. Which puts you in an awkward position anyway, because you've just had sex with someone you don't know.
Add to that all the time spent working out and making yourself trendy to gain an advantage over the next guy in the club, and you have a recipe for a decadent, shallow, atomized culture that gives one the impression that civilization is in its last throes.
I didn't understand (electro) clubs and festivals until I took mdma. Then everything made sense. The music made sense, the funny looking people biting their cheeks made sense, the sunglasses at night made sense and dancing felt like having sex for hours.
And I know that sounds stupid and like a recommendation. But I just want to say that its hard to understand for someone who didnt experience it. What I can recommend is one of the countless documentaries about ecstasy/mdma.
Of course there are people who just get drunk and try to get sex but I think those are a minority.
Taking drugs is a much more sophisticated way to assuage your savage instincts, or whatever, than getting drunk for the Nth time and engaging in some Stone Age dancing ritual.
You actually see the world differently and experience something new. Then you turn the page and you don't need to go back (although it's a shame that clubbers don't share this philosophy).
This type of attitude doesn't get you anywhere. Who says you cannot develop a relationship whether it be friends/sex/romance, it is all relative on how you proceed in certain situations. I've met some amazing people in different clubs (Mexico, Vancouver, Whistler, and even my home town) and do keep in contact with them. A club is what you make it to be, there is no set out cookie cutter plan, that is just you being shallow and not wanting to understand the environment that it creates.
Like it has been said.... Clubs are certainly a go to place to find good looking individuals for one night stands but how does one make such a generalization on what can be a very mixed set of people in one place.
On July 24 2013 03:46 GreenGringo wrote: ........ a decadent, shallow, atomized culture that gives one the impression that civilization is in its last throes.
Funny that reading comments like yours gives me the same impression. There's nothing quite like holding the gavel ehh? Oh well!
An educated and well formalized evaluation of a common custom gives you the impression that civilization is in its last throes? You are holding the gavel as well but you give nothing substantial in your verdict. I think GreenGringo was on point with his comment and gave some good reasons on why this is the case.
It is a shallow culture. It is a manipulative culture. It is a deceptive and illusive culture. However, I know some people may STILL argue that it isn't. One thing we can agree on, I think, is that it is an unhealthy culture (in all regards).
On July 24 2013 03:46 GreenGringo wrote: ........ a decadent, shallow, atomized culture that gives one the impression that civilization is in its last throes.
Funny that reading comments like yours gives me the same impression. There's nothing quite like holding the gavel ehh? Oh well!
An educated and well formalized evaluation of a common custom gives you the impression that civilization is in its last throes? You are holding the gavel as well but you give nothing substantial in your verdict. I think GreenGringo was on point with his comment and gave some good reasons on why this is the case.
It is a shallow culture. It is a manipulative culture. It is a deceptive and illusive culture. However, I know some people may STILL argue that it isn't. One thing we can agree on, I think, is that it is an unhealthy culture (in all regards).
Edit: Referenced the wrong person.
No, we cannot all agree on that. What constitutes "healthy", outside of fairly standard dietary concerns, is a point of major contention across many demographics, be they age, gender, race, or education level. "Culture" in general can oftentimes be described as shallow, doing so in regards to clubbing culture is by no means a noteworthy observation, nor is it very productive. I mean, come on, you are coming out in favor of the guy who basically said, "Attractive women are shallow, people who go to clubs are shallow, loud music is bad, darkness is bad.". I don't think I need to point out the glaring flaws in that heuristic.
It is a shallow culture. It is a manipulative culture. It is a deceptive and illusive culture. However, I know some people may STILL argue that it isn't. One thing we can agree on, I think, is that it is an unhealthy culture (in all regards).
You think that modern day culture is unhealthy "in all regards"? Wow, that's weird. If you meant to refer specifically to clubbing, you probably shouldn't have lumped all of culture in there, but whatever. Either way, your point is moronic because there isn't much to compare our "culture" to in any meaningful sense, and because you more or less have no idea what you're talking about.
I don't go to clubs. I don't have sex with random strangers. I think it's an utter waste of time and says something about one's character if one does so, but that doesn't really matter. The fact is that most people who go to clubs go to them for fun, not because it's the meaning of their life. It's just something they go out and do on a Friday night. Why that's so reprehensible is beyond me. Obviously people enjoy club atmosphere, obviously some people like having no-strings-attached sex, and obviously some people who do these things are shitty. But to move from that to sweeping statements like culture being "shallow" or "manipulative" or "deceptive and illusive" just makes me want to ask you, oh wise and noble one, what a culture without those traits would actually look like, and if it has ever existed anywhere in the course of human history.
Honestly if everyone is going to start the x is best and y is bad for you, you might aswell fuck over and die right now because everything is fucking pointless anyway. :/
Just chill and do your thing, as long as it harms no other individuals and preferably the planet I'm living on I don't give a fuck what your reasons are for doing shit :D But then again you could say I can fuck over this planet because it's your life and you're entitled to fucking it up ~~ Nevermind, proceed.
It is a shallow culture. It is a manipulative culture. It is a deceptive and illusive culture. However, I know some people may STILL argue that it isn't. One thing we can agree on, I think, is that it is an unhealthy culture (in all regards).
You think that modern day culture is unhealthy "in all regards"? Wow, that's weird. If you meant to refer specifically to clubbing, you probably shouldn't have lumped all of culture in there, but whatever. Either way, your point is moronic because there isn't much to compare our "culture" to in any meaningful sense, and because you more or less have no idea what you're talking about.
I don't go to clubs. I don't have sex with random strangers. I think it's an utter waste of time and says something about one's character if one does so, but that doesn't really matter. The fact is that most people who go to clubs go to them for fun, not because it's the meaning of their life. It's just something they go out and do on a Friday night. Why that's so reprehensible is beyond me. Obviously people enjoy club atmosphere, obviously some people like having no-strings-attached sex, and obviously some people who do these things are shitty. But to move from that to sweeping statements like culture being "shallow" or "manipulative" or "deceptive and illusive" just makes me want to ask you, oh wise and noble one, what a culture without those traits would actually look like, and if it has ever existed anywhere in the course of human history.
Of course it was about club culture. It wouldn't make sense otherwise.
I don't understand what you think I was talking about otherwise, The definition of culture in general? I don't get it.
going to clubs is not my kind of thing, but I respect it, as I can both see the appeal and fun in it (it is just not the kind of entertainment I seek. Just like I really enjoy Two and a Half men and there are so many people hating on it for its flat jokes, sexism and the likes. To each his/her own). If clubbing is to pump yourself up with drugs and drink until you reach coma status, I'm sad about those people, but whatever makes them happy and does not hurt other people is fine by me.
For those arguing about it being shallow - it is a thing like an amusement park. You don't go there for long term relationships. You go there for the fun, to enjoy the ride. Even though the ride might not have any deeper meaning. For some it is meeting the people. For some it is dancing or the music. For some it is the easy girls or the drinking. For some it is the feeling of anonymity in a croud. Again, whatever makes people happy.
On July 24 2013 03:46 GreenGringo wrote: ........ a decadent, shallow, atomized culture that gives one the impression that civilization is in its last throes.
Funny that reading comments like yours gives me the same impression. There's nothing quite like holding the gavel ehh? Oh well!
An educated and well formalized evaluation of a common custom gives you the impression that civilization is in its last throes? You are holding the gavel as well but you give nothing substantial in your verdict. I think GreenGringo was on point with his comment and gave some good reasons on why this is the case.
It is a shallow culture. It is a manipulative culture. It is a deceptive and illusive culture. However, I know some people may STILL argue that it isn't. One thing we can agree on, I think, is that it is an unhealthy culture (in all regards).
Edit: Referenced the wrong person.
No, we cannot all agree on that. What constitutes "healthy", outside of fairly standard dietary concerns, is a point of major contention across many demographics, be they age, gender, race, or education level. "Culture" in general can oftentimes be described as shallow, doing so in regards to clubbing culture is by no means a noteworthy observation, nor is it very productive. I mean, come on, you are coming out in favor of the guy who basically said, "Attractive women are shallow, people who go to clubs are shallow, loud music is bad, darkness is bad.". I don't think I need to point out the glaring flaws in that heuristic.
I believe Green was talking about club culture and the people you generally meet there. I believe he was also pointing out that the people there are usually materialistic (looks & money driven). The only saving grace of clubs is the people who honestly go out there to only dance (the 1% ?). You could say another saving grace is music but too bad almost every club focuses on popular music only.
It is a shallow culture. It is a manipulative culture. It is a deceptive and illusive culture. However, I know some people may STILL argue that it isn't. One thing we can agree on, I think, is that it is an unhealthy culture (in all regards).
You think that modern day culture is unhealthy "in all regards"? Wow, that's weird. If you meant to refer specifically to clubbing, you probably shouldn't have lumped all of culture in there, but whatever. Either way, your point is moronic because there isn't much to compare our "culture" to in any meaningful sense, and because you more or less have no idea what you're talking about.
I don't go to clubs. I don't have sex with random strangers. I think it's an utter waste of time and says something about one's character if one does so, but that doesn't really matter. The fact is that most people who go to clubs go to them for fun, not because it's the meaning of their life. It's just something they go out and do on a Friday night. Why that's so reprehensible is beyond me. Obviously people enjoy club atmosphere, obviously some people like having no-strings-attached sex, and obviously some people who do these things are shitty. But to move from that to sweeping statements like culture being "shallow" or "manipulative" or "deceptive and illusive" just makes me want to ask you, oh wise and noble one, what a culture without those traits would actually look like, and if it has ever existed anywhere in the course of human history.
Of course it was about club culture. It wouldn't make sense otherwise.
I don't understand what you think I was talking about otherwise, The definition of culture in general? I don't get it.
Probably because GreenGringo actually argued that the existence of people who like clubbing is evidence of the downfall of civilization in general. When you then start talking about "culture," I assumed you meant it in the sense of general culture, since apparently you're sympathizing with Green's assertion that civilization itself is falling apart.
I believe Green was talking about club culture and the people you generally meet there. I believe he was also pointing out that the people there are usually materialistic (looks & money driven). The only saving grace of clubs is the people who honestly go out there to only dance (the 1% ?). You could say another saving grace is music but too bad almost every club focuses on popular music only.
Newsflash: people anywhere and everywhere are usually materialistic (looks & money driven). This is not a new phenomenon, and it certainly isn't unique to "club culture." Unless you're at a local meditation marathon, a good lecture by some sophisticated professor, or in your own house with people you know very well, pretty much everyone is going to have money+looks (and to some extent power, but whatever) as their main focuses relative to you.
As for your complaint about music, it's just more snobbery. Why would they play music that isn't popular? So that...people won't go and dance there...? I don't get it. They play popular music because it's popular. I don't like popular dance music at all, but to assert that clubs are somehow deplorable because you don't like their music is like saying TV channels that only show soccer are deplorable because you happen to like hockey.
On July 24 2013 04:50 Shiori wrote:It's just something they go out and do on a Friday night. Why that's so reprehensible is beyond me.
Come on. The average 18 to 24 year-old, their entire lives are built around that shit. Even if they do go only once a week, their entire social lives hinge on it. Writing it off as just something they do on a Friday night is disingenuous. When I was at uni, you basically either went to clubs or you were a social outcast.
On July 24 2013 05:25 Shiori wrote: Newsflash: people anywhere and everywhere are usually materialistic (looks & money driven). This is not a new phenomenon, and it certainly isn't unique to "club culture."
Well, I can only say that you don't know much about history. You might want to study the effect that the 80s had on the materialism of the culture, and you might want to watch some movies and read some books from the 1950s. That the culture has got more shallow and materialistic is an entirely valid point of view, amply supported by all kinds of factual evidence.
On July 24 2013 05:25 Shiori wrote: Newsflash: people anywhere and everywhere are usually materialistic (looks & money driven). This is not a new phenomenon, and it certainly isn't unique to "club culture."
Well, I can only say that you don't know much about history. You might want to study the effect that the 80s had on the materialism of the culture, and you might want to watch some movies and read some books from the 1950s. That the culture has got more shallow and materialistic is an entirely valid point of view, amply supported by all kinds of factual evidence.
On July 24 2013 04:50 Shiori wrote:It's just something they go out and do on a Friday night. Why that's so reprehensible is beyond me.
Come on. The average 18 to 24 year-old, their entire lives are built around that shit. Even if they do go only once a week, their entire social lives hinge on it. Writing it off as just something they do on a Friday night is disingenuous. When I was at uni, you basically either went to clubs or you were a social outcast.
I'm not sure what uni you went to, but there are plenty of social activities you can do in this day and age aside from clubbing: go see a band, go on a trip, have a house party, watch a sports game, go to a pub, etc. What do you expect these 18-24 year-olds to do if not hinge their social lives on the weekend, considering it's, you know, the only body of time they have that's free from other obligations like school/work etc.?
It sounds like you're complaining about not having an interest in clubbing while the people around you don't mind going (or even want to go). You're not obligated to go with them, but if you don't share somebody's interests, then it's not so much that you'll be a social outcast as it is that they just want to do different things than you ergo you probably won't be as close to them.
You might want to study the effect that the 80s had on the materialism of the culture, and you might want to watch some movies and read some books from the 1950s. That the culture has got more shallow and materialistic is an entirely valid point of view, amply supported by all kinds of factual evidence.
Anti-miscegenation laws weren't universally struck down in the US until 1967. If anything is shallow, it's regulating the kinds of relationships people are allowed to have based on the colour of their skin. I think some people have a very romanticized perspective on the 1950's in the West. Nevermind the fact that almost every minority group had far fewer rights than they do today. Hell, no-fault divorce didn't even become widespread until the 60's.
On July 24 2013 05:25 Shiori wrote: Newsflash: people anywhere and everywhere are usually materialistic (looks & money driven). This is not a new phenomenon, and it certainly isn't unique to "club culture."
Well, I can only say that you don't know much about history. You might want to study the effect that the 80s had on the materialism of the culture, and you might want to watch some movies and read some books from the 1950s. That the culture has got more shallow and materialistic is an entirely valid point of view, amply supported by all kinds of factual evidence.
Haha, who was it again who practically said the same thing? Seneca i believe, not sure though.
On July 24 2013 04:50 Shiori wrote:It's just something they go out and do on a Friday night. Why that's so reprehensible is beyond me.
Come on. The average 18 to 24 year-old, their entire lives are built around that shit. Even if they do go only once a week, their entire social lives hinge on it. Writing it off as just something they do on a Friday night is disingenuous. When I was at uni, you basically either went to clubs or you were a social outcast.
I'm not sure what uni you went to, but there are plenty of social activities you can do in this day and age aside from clubbing: go see a band, go on a trip, have a house party, watch a sports game, go to a pub, etc.
I was fortunate enough in my second and third years to live with people that shared some of my interests. And of course when you're already friends with someone, there's a ton of stuff to do.
In my first year, I wasn't so lucky, and there was simply no common activity in the dorm except clubbing. Everyone I know who wasn't into clubbing reports a similar experience: either they made friends based on common interests, or they became isolated.
On July 24 2013 05:30 Shiori wrote: Anti-miscegenation laws weren't universally struck down in the US until 1967. If anything is shallow, it's regulating the kinds of relationships people are allowed to have based on the colour of their skin. I think some people have a very romanticized perspective on the 1950's in the West. Nevermind the fact that almost every minority group had far fewer rights than they do today. Hell, no-fault divorce didn't even become widespread until the 60's.
This isn't an appropriate place to play the race card.
Of course it was horrible that racism was so rife, but guess what? Race relations aren't the be all and end all of life. It's entirely possible for cultures to be primitive on race relations and more advanced than us in various other ways.
It is a shallow culture. It is a manipulative culture. It is a deceptive and illusive culture. However, I know some people may STILL argue that it isn't. One thing we can agree on, I think, is that it is an unhealthy culture (in all regards).
You think that modern day culture is unhealthy "in all regards"? Wow, that's weird. If you meant to refer specifically to clubbing, you probably shouldn't have lumped all of culture in there, but whatever. Either way, your point is moronic because there isn't much to compare our "culture" to in any meaningful sense, and because you more or less have no idea what you're talking about.
I don't go to clubs. I don't have sex with random strangers. I think it's an utter waste of time and says something about one's character if one does so, but that doesn't really matter. The fact is that most people who go to clubs go to them for fun, not because it's the meaning of their life. It's just something they go out and do on a Friday night. Why that's so reprehensible is beyond me. Obviously people enjoy club atmosphere, obviously some people like having no-strings-attached sex, and obviously some people who do these things are shitty. But to move from that to sweeping statements like culture being "shallow" or "manipulative" or "deceptive and illusive" just makes me want to ask you, oh wise and noble one, what a culture without those traits would actually look like, and if it has ever existed anywhere in the course of human history.
Of course it was about club culture. It wouldn't make sense otherwise.
I don't understand what you think I was talking about otherwise, The definition of culture in general? I don't get it.
Probably because GreenGringo actually argued that the existence of people who like clubbing is evidence of the downfall of civilization in general. When you then start talking about "culture," I assumed you meant it in the sense of general culture, since apparently you're sympathizing with Green's assertion that civilization itself is falling apart.
I believe Green was talking about club culture and the people you generally meet there. I believe he was also pointing out that the people there are usually materialistic (looks & money driven). The only saving grace of clubs is the people who honestly go out there to only dance (the 1% ?). You could say another saving grace is music but too bad almost every club focuses on popular music only.
Newsflash: people anywhere and everywhere are usually materialistic (looks & money driven). This is not a new phenomenon, and it certainly isn't unique to "club culture." Unless you're at a local meditation marathon, a good lecture by some sophisticated professor, or in your own house with people you know very well, pretty much everyone is going to have money+looks (and to some extent power, but whatever) as their main focuses relative to you.
As for your complaint about music, it's just more snobbery. Why would they play music that isn't popular? So that...people won't go and dance there...? I don't get it. They play popular music because it's popular. I don't like popular dance music at all, but to assert that clubs are somehow deplorable because you don't like their music is like saying TV channels that only show soccer are deplorable because you happen to like hockey.
People being generally more materialistic is not unique to club culture but is prevalent there relative to other places. If you were saying that all places on earth will have the same average materialism then I have to say you are wrong. People in clubs will generally be more materialistic than most other places you go. Many people in this world value other things in life such as family. Of course, you need money and looks are beneficial but they are not the only values in life (and even less so in non-westernized cultures). I would also like to say they are the wrong driving value in life but that is just my own opinion.
As far as your music and snobbery comment. I was arguing about if from the perspective of music as art. Of course the club-owners will put on the music that most of the people that go there will want.
Anyway, after reading most of the comments I came to realise that people may have really different ideas of what we are all talking about.
Are we talking about "clubs" that are basically pick-up joints were the only music you will hear is the same as what is on MTV? Are we talking about rave-like bars that mainly adhere to DJs that create original content via mixes and other means?
When I read the OP, I thought they meant the former. The pick-up joints where everyone is dressed in whatever tarded trend is the coolest these days. The place where a self-respecting woman has to keep her drink in her hand to avoid being roofied. The place where the girl's bathroom is synonymous to a cocaine mirror. The place where you see the same 40+ year old man trying to pick up girls just out of highschool every single week.
Please disregard my comments above if you are defending some place that doesn't fit the above description. That is what my definition of "club" is and I'm probably wrong from a technical perspective (there might not be a term for it). Cheers.
On July 24 2013 05:43 willoc wrote: People being generally more materialistic is not unique to club culture but is prevalent there relative to other places. If you were saying that all places on earth will have the same average materialism then I have to say you are wrong.
Yes, it's complete baloney. The 1970s wasn't as materialistic as the 1980s. It's a fact.
Of course, they had clubbing in the 70s. I have to wonder whether that would be more down my street. Judging by stories of my parents, clubbing in the 70s seemed to be entirely about getting smashed and relieving your baser instincts...and no lame excuses about it being about "socializing" and "meeting people" and whatnot. These days it seems to be more akin to competition in trendiness (and even a competition in wealth in many cases).
On July 24 2013 05:46 sM.Zik wrote: Fuck clubbing, festivals and raves is where it's at ! No, they aren't the same thing.
It's worth clarifying though
I'm not sure what you meant by that, but if you want me you describe how they aren't the same thing here it goes :
Clubbing (generally) : Drunk sluts and douchebags who only want to find someone for the night. Usually shitty club/boum boum tiss/shake that ass girl music (as I said, generally).
Festivals : People who genuinely enjoy the music genre of the said festival, lots of differents activities to do during the day, lots of ways to meet people who share similar interests. Raves is kinda similar to club, but instead of having drunktards and shitty club music you usually have people on mdma with better djs/producer than you would have at club. Also, just like the festivals, people are mostly there to enjoy the music instead of meeting other drunktards douches/sluts. I personally prefer this, but it's just my opinion though.
On July 23 2013 12:36 Mallidon wrote: I'm quite outgoing when I want to be and I love my booze, but I hate clubbing.
Partly because holy shit... I can't hear a thing and nobody can hear me. It's like the natural habitat of people who either never listen to each other anyway or can lip read wtf...
Much prefer pubs, musicy places with areas you can dance in and areas you can chat in (live music places etc) tbh.
So basically your 'inference and conclusion' being that I have few interests in music (not true, love music) alcohol (nope, love it) dancing (you should see my skillz yo, terribad but I love it when I get going) and all that kinda stuff are not true for me. I just prefer places I can bloody communicate with people. It seems clubs/ clubbing is where you go when you cba with all the 'proper' social aspects like talking and getting to know people and just want to latch onto people and stare at them all night while dancing, because you have nowt in common and can't hold a conversation.
Stop looking in my brain and writing down my thoughts.
What I didn't like about the OP was that it felt like it was trying to sound polite, but ultimately just wanted to express his opinion which is something like "how dare some people not enjoy that kind of activity!". I don't know if I'm a snob or something, but the music played in clubs to me is frankly fucking terrible (I skimmed over the thread and saw someone call it "braindead", that fits really well), the activity itself shallow and.. Tribal is the best word I can find with my limited vocabulary, I guess.
I would imagine myself enjoying it if I'm intoxicated in some fashion, but then again, you can enjoy anything when you're in that kind of state as you're neutering your ability to think rationally via substances which alter your brain. Some people wrote some great idealistic descriptions about the experience like losing yourself in the music, being a part of this like-minded crowd, interacting with strangers and having random fun conversations, care-free environment where no one judges anyone etc. and that honestly seems seems like a great experience if you're into that kind of stuff.
However, I just feel like majority of that kind of culture is just a primitive ritual of getting drunk (drugged), finding a member of opposite sex to satisfy a hormonal desire (grinding/making out with no strings attached, possibly having a one night stand etc.) and then rationalizing that what you're doing is meaningful.
On July 24 2013 05:46 sM.Zik wrote: Fuck clubbing, festivals and raves is where it's at ! No, they aren't the same thing.
It's worth clarifying though
I'm not sure what you meant by that, but if you want me you describe how they aren't the same thing here it goes :
Clubbing (generally) : Drunk sluts and douchebags who only want to find someone for the night. Usually shitty club/boum boum tiss/shake that ass girl music (as I said, generally).
Festivals : People who genuinely enjoy the music genre of the said festival, lots of differents activities to do during the day, lots of ways to meet people who share similar interests. Raves is kinda similar to club, but instead of having drunktards and shitty club music you usually have people on mdma with better djs/producer than you would have at club. Also, just like the festivals, people are mostly there to enjoy the music instead of meeting other drunktards douches/sluts. I personally prefer this, but it's just my opinion though.
Agreed. Wasn't asking for an explanation from you but just saying that it is important to recognise the distinction between the two
On July 24 2013 05:57 MidKnight wrote: Some people wrote some great idealistic descriptions about the experience like losing yourself in the music, being a part of this like-minded crowd, interacting with strangers and having random fun conversations, care-free environment where no one judges anyone etc. and that honestly seems seems like a great experience if you're into that kind of stuff..
Totally agreed and I'm glad people made those comments. The 'clubs' I was thinking of are pretty much the opposite though. People instantly judge you on what you are wearing. People don't care about the music and the environment is definitely not care-free.
On July 24 2013 05:57 MidKnight wrote:However, I just feel like majority of that kind of culture is just a primitive ritual of getting drunk (drugged), finding a member of opposite sex to satisfy a hormonal desire (grinding/making out with no strings attached, possibly having a one night stand etc.) and then rationalizing that what you're doing is meaningful.
It's even worse than that due the element of competitiveness associated with it.
Wasting your time on instant gratification is one thing. What's so appalling about the modern club culture is that it essentially boils down to a competition in douchebagginess. Guys are rewarded for pouring all their time into looking trendy. They're also rewarded for being extrovert and overconfident and aggressive. And apparently even for looking wealthy in many cases (I'm told a guaranteed way to get laid in London is to feign the appearance and mannerisms of a City banker).
We're left with materialism, shallowness, decadence, atomized relations, and a glorification of overt displays of "social aggression".
I've always viewed clubs as an unofficial place for singles to go and drink and try to hook up. The atmosphere is usually pretty stressful/loud/annoying. Most everyone knows why they're there, and it promotes this almost socially hostile vibe as everyone is competing with each other (maybe a little over exaggerated, but the general idea is true).
On July 24 2013 05:46 sM.Zik wrote: Fuck clubbing, festivals and raves is where it's at ! No, they aren't the same thing.
It's worth clarifying though
I'm not sure what you meant by that, but if you want me you describe how they aren't the same thing here it goes :
Clubbing (generally) : Drunk sluts and douchebags who only want to find someone for the night. Usually shitty club/boum boum tiss/shake that ass girl music (as I said, generally).
Festivals : People who genuinely enjoy the music genre of the said festival, lots of differents activities to do during the day, lots of ways to meet people who share similar interests. Raves is kinda similar to club, but instead of having drunktards and shitty club music you usually have people on mdma with better djs/producer than you would have at club. Also, just like the festivals, people are mostly there to enjoy the music instead of meeting other drunktards douches/sluts. I personally prefer this, but it's just my opinion though.
Agreed. Wasn't asking for an explanation from you but just saying that it is important to recognise the distinction between the two
Oh yeah, most definitely. I'm sure quite a lot of people think they're all the same.
On July 24 2013 05:57 MidKnight wrote:However, I just feel like majority of that kind of culture is just a primitive ritual of getting drunk (drugged), finding a member of opposite sex to satisfy a hormonal desire (grinding/making out with no strings attached, possibly having a one night stand etc.) and then rationalizing that what you're doing is meaningful.
It's even worse than that due the element of competitiveness associated with it.
Wasting your time on instant gratification is one thing. What's so appalling about the modern club culture is that it essentially boils down to a competition in douchebagginess. Guys are rewarded for pouring all their time into looking trendy. They're also rewarded for being extrovert and overconfident and aggressive. And apparently even for looking wealthy in many cases (I'm told a guaranteed way to get laid in London is to feign the appearance of a City banker).
We're left with materialism, shallowness, decadence, atomized relations, and a glorification of overt displays of "social aggression".
I hate to say stuff like that, but you seem just mad. Maybe because you didn't like your 1. year at uni when all the other people were clubbing and you not. Or why else would you take your time to write all that total nonsense?
On July 24 2013 06:13 theodorus12 wrote: I hate to say stuff like that, but you seem just mad. Maybe because you didn't like your 1. year at uni when all the other people were clubbing and you not. Or why else would you take your time to write all that total nonsense?
And why would you take your time to write all that total nonsense in favour of the club scene?
I didn't like it in my freshman year because I thought it was dumb. Not because I'm unattractive and lack social skills or whatever. I thought the same then that I think now.
On July 24 2013 06:13 theodorus12 wrote: I hate to say stuff like that, but you seem just mad. Maybe because you didn't like your 1. year at uni when all the other people were clubbing and you not. Or why else would you take your time to write all that total nonsense?
And why would you take your time to write all that total nonsense in favour of the club scene?
I didn't like it in my freshman year because I thought it was dumb. Not because I'm unattractive and lack social skills or whatever. I thought the same then that I think now.
See, that passive-aggressiveness is exactly what proves me right. There is no point in arguing with someone who is so emotionally involved in a subject.
On July 24 2013 04:50 Shiori wrote:It's just something they go out and do on a Friday night. Why that's so reprehensible is beyond me.
Come on. The average 18 to 24 year-old, their entire lives are built around that shit. Even if they do go only once a week, their entire social lives hinge on it. Writing it off as just something they do on a Friday night is disingenuous. When I was at uni, you basically either went to clubs or you were a social outcast.
I'm not sure what uni you went to, but there are plenty of social activities you can do in this day and age aside from clubbing: go see a band, go on a trip, have a house party, watch a sports game, go to a pub, etc.
I was fortunate enough in my second and third years to live with people that shared some of my interests. And of course when you're already friends with someone, there's a ton of stuff to do.
In my first year, I wasn't so lucky, and there was simply no common activity in the dorm except clubbing. Everyone I know who wasn't into clubbing reports a similar experience: either they made friends based on common interests, or they became isolated.
Weird...people either made friends with common interests and some didn't. This is not the clubs' fault. Some of those groups of friends like to go clubbing. Your group of friends didn't. You lived with them and had a nice time not clubbing. That's what people do. Hang out with people they like and do things they like.
On July 24 2013 05:57 MidKnight wrote:However, I just feel like majority of that kind of culture is just a primitive ritual of getting drunk (drugged), finding a member of opposite sex to satisfy a hormonal desire (grinding/making out with no strings attached, possibly having a one night stand etc.) and then rationalizing that what you're doing is meaningful.
It's even worse than that due the element of competitiveness associated with it.
Wasting your time on instant gratification is one thing. What's so appalling about the modern club culture is that it essentially boils down to a competition in douchebagginess. Guys are rewarded for pouring all their time into looking trendy. They're also rewarded for being extrovert and overconfident and aggressive. And apparently even for looking wealthy in many cases (I'm told a guaranteed way to get laid in London is to feign the appearance and mannerisms of a City banker).
We're left with materialism, shallowness, decadence, atomized relations, and a glorification of overt displays of "social aggression".
I think you've watched way too much jersey shore. Yeah some clubs have douche bags that go to it but that's not the ONLY people that go there. This is true with pretty much ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD.
On July 24 2013 05:57 MidKnight wrote:However, I just feel like majority of that kind of culture is just a primitive ritual of getting drunk (drugged), finding a member of opposite sex to satisfy a hormonal desire (grinding/making out with no strings attached, possibly having a one night stand etc.) and then rationalizing that what you're doing is meaningful.
It's even worse than that due the element of competitiveness associated with it.
Wasting your time on instant gratification is one thing. What's so appalling about the modern club culture is that it essentially boils down to a competition in douchebagginess. Guys are rewarded for pouring all their time into looking trendy. They're also rewarded for being extrovert and overconfident and aggressive. And apparently even for looking wealthy in many cases (I'm told a guaranteed way to get laid in London is to feign the appearance of a City banker).
We're left with materialism, shallowness, decadence, atomized relations, and a glorification of overt displays of "social aggression".
I hate to say stuff like that, but you seem just mad. Maybe because you didn't like your 1. year at uni when all the other people were clubbing and you not. Or why else would you take your time to write all that total nonsense?
Please stop the strawman. What he wrote was comprehensible and a valid view point.
Personally, I spent 6+ years of my life going to clubs/festivals/raves/bars/pubs/events from my beginings sneaking into clubs when I was 17 (and still underage) to just before graduating from University. There is a large range of these types of music-related events. Most of them are pretty damn cool. Some are not. GreenGringo is talking about the generic club you can find in most major cities (current pop-music only, gold-diggers, women with no clothing standing in line during snow so they can still be 'sexy', douchebags with visors and sock/sandal combos, Usually in the news about the latest rape/gun-fire/alcohol abuse incidents). Maybe it is you who hasn't experienced those?
When I was in my teens and early twenties, I hated going to clubs or bars. I gave it a shot perhaps 5-10 times but I never liked it. The high music, drunk people, seemingly shallow interactions and relations. I heard arguments like those in this thread, "you have to be more drunk", "you have to flow with the music", "you have to get out of your shell".
Years later I read about introverts and extroverts, that there were much fewer introverts in the world, and that much of the workplaces or social places, are designed for extrovert people. When I read that introverts can socialize with people for a few hours, and then need to be alone to "recharge" I knew exactly what the article was talking about.
I now believe I'm an introvert, and nothing I do, nothing I change, will make me like clubbing. Some people love it, and are sure that everyone will love it, if they just tried it "for real" or whatever. Others hate it and see zero reason to do it.
Trying to make an introvert like clubbing, is like trying to get reality show contestants to like computer programming. I don't believe either is possible.
On July 24 2013 05:57 MidKnight wrote:However, I just feel like majority of that kind of culture is just a primitive ritual of getting drunk (drugged), finding a member of opposite sex to satisfy a hormonal desire (grinding/making out with no strings attached, possibly having a one night stand etc.) and then rationalizing that what you're doing is meaningful.
It's even worse than that due the element of competitiveness associated with it.
Wasting your time on instant gratification is one thing. What's so appalling about the modern club culture is that it essentially boils down to a competition in douchebagginess. Guys are rewarded for pouring all their time into looking trendy. They're also rewarded for being extrovert and overconfident and aggressive. And apparently even for looking wealthy in many cases (I'm told a guaranteed way to get laid in London is to feign the appearance of a City banker).
We're left with materialism, shallowness, decadence, atomized relations, and a glorification of overt displays of "social aggression".
I hate to say stuff like that, but you seem just mad. Maybe because you didn't like your 1. year at uni when all the other people were clubbing and you not. Or why else would you take your time to write all that total nonsense?
Please stop the strawman. What he wrote was comprehensible and a valid view point.
How is it a "valid view point" if someone is just spouting prejudices around about something he has no idea of (how would he, if he thinks he doesn't like clubbing and maybe went there 2 times..)?
On July 24 2013 05:57 MidKnight wrote:However, I just feel like majority of that kind of culture is just a primitive ritual of getting drunk (drugged), finding a member of opposite sex to satisfy a hormonal desire (grinding/making out with no strings attached, possibly having a one night stand etc.) and then rationalizing that what you're doing is meaningful.
It's even worse than that due the element of competitiveness associated with it.
Wasting your time on instant gratification is one thing. What's so appalling about the modern club culture is that it essentially boils down to a competition in douchebagginess. Guys are rewarded for pouring all their time into looking trendy. They're also rewarded for being extrovert and overconfident and aggressive. And apparently even for looking wealthy in many cases (I'm told a guaranteed way to get laid in London is to feign the appearance of a City banker).
We're left with materialism, shallowness, decadence, atomized relations, and a glorification of overt displays of "social aggression".
I hate to say stuff like that, but you seem just mad. Maybe because you didn't like your 1. year at uni when all the other people were clubbing and you not. Or why else would you take your time to write all that total nonsense?
Please stop the strawman. What he wrote was comprehensible and a valid view point.
Personally, I spent 6+ years of my life going to clubs/festivals/raves/bars/pubs/events from my beginings sneaking into clubs when I was 17 (and still underage) to just before graduating from University. There is a large range of these types of music-related events. Most of them are pretty damn cool. Some are not. GreenGringo is talking about the generic club you can find in most major cities (current pop-music only, gold-diggers, women with no clothing standing in line during snow so they can still be 'sexy', douchebags with visors and sock/sandal combos, Usually in the news about the latest rape/gun-fire/alcohol abuse incidents). Maybe it is you who hasn't experienced those?
I don't think anyone here is defending or enjoys those places.
On July 24 2013 05:57 MidKnight wrote:However, I just feel like majority of that kind of culture is just a primitive ritual of getting drunk (drugged), finding a member of opposite sex to satisfy a hormonal desire (grinding/making out with no strings attached, possibly having a one night stand etc.) and then rationalizing that what you're doing is meaningful.
It's even worse than that due the element of competitiveness associated with it.
Wasting your time on instant gratification is one thing. What's so appalling about the modern club culture is that it essentially boils down to a competition in douchebagginess. Guys are rewarded for pouring all their time into looking trendy. They're also rewarded for being extrovert and overconfident and aggressive. And apparently even for looking wealthy in many cases (I'm told a guaranteed way to get laid in London is to feign the appearance of a City banker).
We're left with materialism, shallowness, decadence, atomized relations, and a glorification of overt displays of "social aggression".
I hate to say stuff like that, but you seem just mad. Maybe because you didn't like your 1. year at uni when all the other people were clubbing and you not. Or why else would you take your time to write all that total nonsense?
Please stop the strawman. What he wrote was comprehensible and a valid view point.
How is it a "valid view point" if someone is just spouting prejudices around about something he has no idea of (how would he, if he thinks he doesn't like clubbing and maybe went there 2 times..)?
Because it is a view point. Just because you somehow took it personally doesn't mean it isn't. Why do you pretend to know things about the poster?
On July 24 2013 06:24 Lemonhead wrote: When I was in my teens and early twenties, I hated going to clubs or bars. I gave it a shot perhaps 5-10 times but I never liked it. The high music, drunk people, seemingly shallow interactions and relations. I heard arguments like those in this thread, "you have to be more drunk", "you have to flow with the music", "you have to get out of your shell".
Years later I read about introverts and extroverts, that there were much fewer introverts in the world, and that much of the workplaces or social places, are designed for extrovert people. When I read that introverts can socialize with people for a few hours, and then need to be alone to "recharge" I knew exactly what the article was talking about.
I now believe I'm an introvert, and nothing I do, nothing I change, will make me like clubbing. Some people love it, and are sure that everyone will love it, if they just tried it "for real" or whatever. Others hate it and see zero reason to do it.
Trying to make an introvert like clubbing, is like trying to get reality show contestants to like computer programming. I don't believe either is possible.
On July 24 2013 05:57 MidKnight wrote:However, I just feel like majority of that kind of culture is just a primitive ritual of getting drunk (drugged), finding a member of opposite sex to satisfy a hormonal desire (grinding/making out with no strings attached, possibly having a one night stand etc.) and then rationalizing that what you're doing is meaningful.
It's even worse than that due the element of competitiveness associated with it.
Wasting your time on instant gratification is one thing. What's so appalling about the modern club culture is that it essentially boils down to a competition in douchebagginess. Guys are rewarded for pouring all their time into looking trendy. They're also rewarded for being extrovert and overconfident and aggressive. And apparently even for looking wealthy in many cases (I'm told a guaranteed way to get laid in London is to feign the appearance of a City banker).
We're left with materialism, shallowness, decadence, atomized relations, and a glorification of overt displays of "social aggression".
I hate to say stuff like that, but you seem just mad. Maybe because you didn't like your 1. year at uni when all the other people were clubbing and you not. Or why else would you take your time to write all that total nonsense?
Please stop the strawman. What he wrote was comprehensible and a valid view point.
How is it a "valid view point" if someone is just spouting prejudices around about something he has no idea of (how would he, if he thinks he doesn't like clubbing and maybe went there 2 times..)?
Because it is a view point. Just because you somehow took it personally doesn't mean it isn't. Why do you pretend to know things about the poster?
He is the one taking it personally, just read his defensive answer about not being ugly etc. I couldn't care less if he likes it or not, not spouting around the cheapest prejudices and stating them as facts is just wrong. It's like he watched 3 episodes of Jersey Shore and thinks all clubs are like that lol.
On July 24 2013 05:46 sM.Zik wrote: Fuck clubbing, festivals and raves is where it's at ! No, they aren't the same thing.
It's worth clarifying though
I'm not sure what you meant by that, but if you want me you describe how they aren't the same thing here it goes :
Clubbing (generally) : Drunk sluts and douchebags who only want to find someone for the night. Usually shitty club/boum boum tiss/shake that ass girl music (as I said, generally).
Festivals : People who genuinely enjoy the music genre of the said festival, lots of differents activities to do during the day, lots of ways to meet people who share similar interests. Raves is kinda similar to club, but instead of having drunktards and shitty club music you usually have people on mdma with better djs/producer than you would have at club. Also, just like the festivals, people are mostly there to enjoy the music instead of meeting other drunktards douches/sluts. I personally prefer this, but it's just my opinion though.
Festivals (generally) : Drunk sluts and douchebags who only want to find someone for the night and smoke pot and get drunk. Usually shitty wah wah this music is so cool music (as I said, generally).
Clubs: People who genuinely enjoy dancing to the music of the said club, different dancefloors to dance on during the night, no need to have awkward conversations pretending to share similar interests. Raves is kinda similar to club, but instead of having drunktards and shitty club music you usually have people on mdma.
Fixed this for you. Add it to your original post to make a sensible standpoint. No need to hate people or activities. No need to go for categoric imperatives.
On July 24 2013 06:27 theodorus12 wrote: How is it a "valid view point" if someone is just spouting prejudices around about something he has no idea of (how would he, if he thinks he doesn't like clubbing and maybe went there 2 times..)?
I've been to clubs more like 20 times. Not a lot compared with you, I'm sure, but still enough for me to reach a few conclusions. Be assured that I approached them as an objective anthropologist most times I went there.
On July 24 2013 05:46 sM.Zik wrote: Fuck clubbing, festivals and raves is where it's at ! No, they aren't the same thing.
It's worth clarifying though
I'm not sure what you meant by that, but if you want me you describe how they aren't the same thing here it goes :
Clubbing (generally) : Drunk sluts and douchebags who only want to find someone for the night. Usually shitty club/boum boum tiss/shake that ass girl music (as I said, generally).
Festivals : People who genuinely enjoy the music genre of the said festival, lots of differents activities to do during the day, lots of ways to meet people who share similar interests. Raves is kinda similar to club, but instead of having drunktards and shitty club music you usually have people on mdma with better djs/producer than you would have at club. Also, just like the festivals, people are mostly there to enjoy the music instead of meeting other drunktards douches/sluts. I personally prefer this, but it's just my opinion though.
Festivals (generally) : Drunk sluts and douchebags who only want to find someone for the night and smoke pot and get drunk. Usually shitty wah wah this music is so cool music (as I said, generally).
Clubs: People who genuinely enjoy dancing to the music of the said club, different dancefloors to dance on during the night, no need to have awkward conversations pretending to share similar interests. Raves is kinda similar to club, but instead of having drunktards and shitty club music you usually have people on mdma.
Fixed this for you. Add it to your original post to make a sensible standpoint. No need to hate people or activities. No need to go for categoric imperatives.
lmao, nice attempt but this is wrong is so many ways. I have no idea to which festival and clubs you went, but it sure looks like you live in a parallel universe to mine.
On July 24 2013 06:27 theodorus12 wrote: How is it a "valid view point" if someone is just spouting prejudices around about something he has no idea of (how would he, if he thinks he doesn't like clubbing and maybe went there 2 times..)?
I've been to clubs more like 20 times. Not a lot compared with you, I'm sure, but still enough for me to reach a few conclusions. Be assured that I approached them as an objective anthropologist most times I went there.
I don't go to clubs often, but when I do I will have fun. It's aso about what you are expecting, you have to take clubs for what they are, which really depends on what kind of club or festival you are going. Ofc there is the generic Jersey shore trash but this is really only a small percentage. Really, there is something out there for every kind of person, so it's just hard to see how you can think EVERY club is just about douchebaggery.
On July 24 2013 06:27 theodorus12 wrote: How is it a "valid view point" if someone is just spouting prejudices around about something he has no idea of (how would he, if he thinks he doesn't like clubbing and maybe went there 2 times..)?
I've been to clubs more like 20 times. Not a lot compared with you, I'm sure, but still enough for me to reach a few conclusions. Be assured that I approached them as an objective anthropologist most times I went there.
On July 24 2013 06:24 Lemonhead wrote: When I was in my teens and early twenties, I hated going to clubs or bars. I gave it a shot perhaps 5-10 times but I never liked it. The high music, drunk people, seemingly shallow interactions and relations. I heard arguments like those in this thread, "you have to be more drunk", "you have to flow with the music", "you have to get out of your shell".
Years later I read about introverts and extroverts, that there were much fewer introverts in the world, and that much of the workplaces or social places, are designed for extrovert people. When I read that introverts can socialize with people for a few hours, and then need to be alone to "recharge" I knew exactly what the article was talking about.
I now believe I'm an introvert, and nothing I do, nothing I change, will make me like clubbing. Some people love it, and are sure that everyone will love it, if they just tried it "for real" or whatever. Others hate it and see zero reason to do it.
Trying to make an introvert like clubbing, is like trying to get reality show contestants to like computer programming. I don't believe either is possible.
On July 24 2013 06:27 theodorus12 wrote: How is it a "valid view point" if someone is just spouting prejudices around about something he has no idea of (how would he, if he thinks he doesn't like clubbing and maybe went there 2 times..)?
I've been to clubs more like 20 times. Not a lot compared with you, I'm sure, but still enough for me to reach a few conclusions. Be assured that I approached them as an objective anthropologist most times I went there.
I don't go to clubs often, but when I do I will have fun. It's aso about what you are expecting, you have to take clubs for what they are, which really depends on what kind of club or festival you are going. Ofc there is the generic Jersey shore trash but this is really only a small percentage. Really, there is something out there for every kind of person, so it's just hard to see how you can think EVERY club is just about douchebaggery.
You might have fun, but the reality is that clubs are about men approaching women, not the other way around. It's a fact of zoology that this leads to competition and results essentially in peacock tails being grown.
I don't think this is healthy. I also don't think it's healthy that the culture is moving away from pubs and bars: places where you can have a conversation and build friendships.
Once again, my beef isn't with you: it's with the culture.
I went to a a lot of clubs around 2006-2008 (I was 18-20)... Didn't go for a few years, but for nearly a year I've been hitting bars, clubs and dancehalls almost every single weekend... Enjoying it way more now. I think my main motivations were:
1: Getting single 2: Going out with friends who love dancing 3: Being a bit more mature 4: Having some more money 5: Having some more sence
...but honestly, I feel #1 and #2 are my two main motivators
On July 24 2013 06:27 theodorus12 wrote: How is it a "valid view point" if someone is just spouting prejudices around about something he has no idea of (how would he, if he thinks he doesn't like clubbing and maybe went there 2 times..)?
I've been to clubs more like 20 times. Not a lot compared with you, I'm sure, but still enough for me to reach a few conclusions. Be assured that I approached them as an objective anthropologist most times I went there.
I don't go to clubs often, but when I do I will have fun. It's aso about what you are expecting, you have to take clubs for what they are, which really depends on what kind of club or festival you are going. Ofc there is the generic Jersey shore trash but this is really only a small percentage. Really, there is something out there for every kind of person, so it's just hard to see how you can think EVERY club is just about douchebaggery.
You might have fun, but the reality is that clubs are about men approaching women, not the other way around. It's a fact of zoology that this leads to competition and results essentially in peacock tails being grown.
I don't think this is healthy. I also don't think it's healthy that the culture is moving away from pubs and bars: places where you can have a conversation and build friendships.
Once again, my beef isn't with you: it's with the culture.
Not all people go there to get girls. And if you see this from the point of zoology, tell my again why competition would be bad and unhealthy?
Your 2nd point just isn't true, at least where I live, all the pubs and bars are still completely full every weekend, so I doubt "culture" is shifting away from them.
On July 24 2013 06:27 theodorus12 wrote: How is it a "valid view point" if someone is just spouting prejudices around about something he has no idea of (how would he, if he thinks he doesn't like clubbing and maybe went there 2 times..)?
I've been to clubs more like 20 times. Not a lot compared with you, I'm sure, but still enough for me to reach a few conclusions. Be assured that I approached them as an objective anthropologist most times I went there.
You've gone out to actual clubs ~20 times? That's a pretty good amount of going to clubs for someone that hates clubs so strongly. I like going to real clubs when I get the chance/ when a sick DJ is playing, but I've definitely not even been to real clubs 10 times let alone 20... It just seems strange that you'd force yourself to do something you dislike 20 times
On July 24 2013 06:24 Lemonhead wrote: When I was in my teens and early twenties, I hated going to clubs or bars. I gave it a shot perhaps 5-10 times but I never liked it. The high music, drunk people, seemingly shallow interactions and relations. I heard arguments like those in this thread, "you have to be more drunk", "you have to flow with the music", "you have to get out of your shell".
Years later I read about introverts and extroverts, that there were much fewer introverts in the world, and that much of the workplaces or social places, are designed for extrovert people. When I read that introverts can socialize with people for a few hours, and then need to be alone to "recharge" I knew exactly what the article was talking about.
I now believe I'm an introvert, and nothing I do, nothing I change, will make me like clubbing. Some people love it, and are sure that everyone will love it, if they just tried it "for real" or whatever. Others hate it and see zero reason to do it.
Trying to make an introvert like clubbing, is like trying to get reality show contestants to like computer programming. I don't believe either is possible.
On July 24 2013 07:05 theodorus12 wrote: Not all people go there to get girls. And if you see this from the point of zoology, tell my again why competition would be bad and unhealthy?
You really need to ask why competition is bad and unhealthy in this context?
I've posted enough for tonight. Maybe somebody else will join the dots for you.
Inference and conclusion: People who do not like going to clubs have few to no interests in its associating factors i.e. music genre, alcohol, attraction, dance etc. This may be due to their personality or gene, making them avoid the above interests and people associated with such interests. Or, they may simply not have had the opportunity or chance to mingle with such groups (which would make sense because many clubbers are really social and friendly, so no reason to avoid them when approached, really). People who have grown to like clubbing over time have been having growing interest in its associative factors, or have had friends as such and have been slowly or quickly integrated in clubbing community. People who fall in love with clubbing the first time they go are just born that way and are directly comfortable with enjoying its music, atmosphere, people, and related activities.
First off, I agree with your thoughts on dance. People who do not like going to clubs likely have little interest in dancing to that kind of music. However, I can't see your other activities as being logical conclusions to your premise of people liking or not liking clubbing from nature/nurture.
Alcohol. Clubbing is generally expensive with regards to alcohol. It is not true that people who don't go clubbing will have little interest in alcohol. There are a myriad of other ways to have alcohol. This include with friends at a laid back bar and at a sports bar. This also includes the cheap option of buying a 12pack/24pack/30pack or multiple 6 packs and chilling with friends at the evening at the house, possibly with a barbecue, likely with TV or video games. Your conclusion does not logically follow.
Music Genre. If you like dance music, there's an iPod and even more likely a PC or laptop that will play it in higher quality than any club. Its just the music genre and propensity to dance to it that suggests a clubbing atmosphere.
Opportunity to try it out. The reverse is also true: some try it out and find the drinks too expensive, the music too loud, and the place too crowded. Even if clubbers around are often social and friendly, not even club scene is the same in an area. So it's definitely there to try it and never fall in love. It does favor the extroverts, I'll hand you that.
Attraction. I don't think I'll need to elaborate when I say the people that go to clubs are looking to attract a certain type of girl. If that isn't your cup of tea, attraction has nothing to do with your choice to club or not club, it's the type you're attracted to.
What I meant was, perhaps there could be a positive correlation between the number of the factors mentioned above a person likes, and how likely they are going to enjoying clubs. Effectively, the only thing I've done is list up some features that are often present when associated with a night of clubbing i.e. alcohol, dress and fashion, electro/house music, dancing, attraction to opposite gender, physical fitness. I've then associated these with the likelihood of a person who would enjoy club atmosphere.
Just imagine a person who likes 'Martin Garrix - Animals' and one who doesn't. Which is more likely to welcome that song in a club ? Of course the former, right ? So who is more likely to have fun there?
So yeah, maybe I got the relationship wrong: most people who enjoy clubs enjoy the factors mentioned above, and not vice versa (people who enjoy fashion, drinking, sex, electro/house music, may not necessarily enjoy club atmosphere)
You have said essentially what is the opposite in your second premise.
Premise 2: There must be something different between the two groups of people mentioned above, whether it be nature (born shy/quiet vs outgoing/loud personality, genes, etc.) or nurture (growing new sets of interests associated with clubbing e.g. style/fashion, alcohol, exercise/workout, attraction to opposite (or same) gender, house/electro/R&B music genres, socializing with people with interests similar to those mentioned above)
You say that there is a difference between two groups of people. So I must ask myself if the things you list, namely Club Music, Alcoholic Drinks (I think you have a stronger argument for Mixed Drinks and Shots), Attraction, and Dance are all differences present, some differences present and some not so, a partial subset of differences between the two groups, or none present as differences. It is not possible to say that there's a difference, and then say both groups share these things but one is more a feature of one group than another. Then there is no difference, only a covariance of numerous factors taken together.
People who do not like going to clubs have few to no interests in its associating factors i.e. music genre, alcohol, attraction, dance etc.
If you do not intend to associate the individual factors with the presence of a joy of clubbing, this makes the reader believe that it is exactly what you intend to do. I showed four that are not individually correlated, and where many may be matched but not correlated in my post. Alcohol, Opportunity, and Attraction are definitely matched for someone that enjoys drinks at home and is interested in a relationship, with phone numbers of people he could call if he wanted to go clubbing, or even did it once. It's other unmentioned factors that I touched on that really guide his behavior.
On July 24 2013 06:27 theodorus12 wrote: How is it a "valid view point" if someone is just spouting prejudices around about something he has no idea of (how would he, if he thinks he doesn't like clubbing and maybe went there 2 times..)?
I've been to clubs more like 20 times. Not a lot compared with you, I'm sure, but still enough for me to reach a few conclusions. Be assured that I approached them as an objective anthropologist most times I went there.
You've gone out to actual clubs ~20 times? That's a pretty good amount of going to clubs for someone that hates clubs so strongly. I like going to real clubs when I get the chance/ when a sick DJ is playing, but I've definitely not even been to real clubs 10 times let alone 20... It just seems strange that you'd force yourself to do something you dislike 20 times
Maybe it's a British thing, but here 20 times is nothing. Most students go at least once every week. By the time they're in their late twenties like I am, they've been hundreds of times.
On July 24 2013 06:27 theodorus12 wrote: How is it a "valid view point" if someone is just spouting prejudices around about something he has no idea of (how would he, if he thinks he doesn't like clubbing and maybe went there 2 times..)?
I've been to clubs more like 20 times. Not a lot compared with you, I'm sure, but still enough for me to reach a few conclusions. Be assured that I approached them as an objective anthropologist most times I went there.
You've gone out to actual clubs ~20 times? That's a pretty good amount of going to clubs for someone that hates clubs so strongly. I like going to real clubs when I get the chance/ when a sick DJ is playing, but I've definitely not even been to real clubs 10 times let alone 20... It just seems strange that you'd force yourself to do something you dislike 20 times
Maybe it's a British thing, but here 20 times is nothing. Most students go at least once every week. By the time they're in their late twenties like I am, they've been hundreds of times.
Yeah I don't like clubbing either but I've been probably 50+ times.
On July 24 2013 06:27 theodorus12 wrote: How is it a "valid view point" if someone is just spouting prejudices around about something he has no idea of (how would he, if he thinks he doesn't like clubbing and maybe went there 2 times..)?
I've been to clubs more like 20 times. Not a lot compared with you, I'm sure, but still enough for me to reach a few conclusions. Be assured that I approached them as an objective anthropologist most times I went there.
You've gone out to actual clubs ~20 times? That's a pretty good amount of going to clubs for someone that hates clubs so strongly. I like going to real clubs when I get the chance/ when a sick DJ is playing, but I've definitely not even been to real clubs 10 times let alone 20... It just seems strange that you'd force yourself to do something you dislike 20 times
Maybe it's a British thing, but here 20 times is nothing. Most students go at least once every week. By the time they're in their late twenties like I am, they've been hundreds of times.
Wow! Yeah I'm thinking there may be a bit of misunderstanding among people with regard to the meaning of "clubs" and "clubbing". Here in the US going to a good club might cost you $200-1000 or more depending on your group and how things are split up. 50 times out to the club would put quite a hole in the pockets! Most students here are not doing this on the regular (most go to bars/parties). Just going to bars/pubs is much cheaper of course -- but I understand going to "the club" as going in with a group and getting a table + service and the whole shebang
If someone is just going to a club for the bar and not getting a table/service, yeah it's probably a pretty shitty experience seeing as bars and pubs already exist for that -- might as well not call it clubbing in that case. Seeing a big DJ at a club is fun regardless of table or none and feels more like a packed indoor concert anyway
On July 24 2013 05:46 sM.Zik wrote: Fuck clubbing, festivals and raves is where it's at ! No, they aren't the same thing.
It's worth clarifying though
I'm not sure what you meant by that, but if you want me you describe how they aren't the same thing here it goes :
Clubbing (generally) : Drunk sluts and douchebags who only want to find someone for the night. Usually shitty club/boum boum tiss/shake that ass girl music (as I said, generally).
Festivals : People who genuinely enjoy the music genre of the said festival, lots of differents activities to do during the day, lots of ways to meet people who share similar interests. Raves is kinda similar to club, but instead of having drunktards and shitty club music you usually have people on mdma with better djs/producer than you would have at club. Also, just like the festivals, people are mostly there to enjoy the music instead of meeting other drunktards douches/sluts. I personally prefer this, but it's just my opinion though.
Festivals (generally) : Drunk sluts and douchebags who only want to find someone for the night and smoke pot and get drunk. Usually shitty wah wah this music is so cool music (as I said, generally).
Clubs: People who genuinely enjoy dancing to the music of the said club, different dancefloors to dance on during the night, no need to have awkward conversations pretending to share similar interests. Raves is kinda similar to club, but instead of having drunktards and shitty club music you usually have people on mdma.
Fixed this for you. Add it to your original post to make a sensible standpoint. No need to hate people or activities. No need to go for categoric imperatives.
lmao, nice attempt but this is wrong is so many ways. I have no idea to which festival and clubs you went, but it sure looks like you live in a parallel universe to mine.
lmao, nice attempt but this is wrong and predjudiced in so many ways. I have no idea to which festival and clubs you went, but it sure looks like you live in a parallel and a tad more smug universe to mine.
On July 24 2013 06:27 theodorus12 wrote: How is it a "valid view point" if someone is just spouting prejudices around about something he has no idea of (how would he, if he thinks he doesn't like clubbing and maybe went there 2 times..)?
I've been to clubs more like 20 times. Not a lot compared with you, I'm sure, but still enough for me to reach a few conclusions. Be assured that I approached them as an objective anthropologist most times I went there.
You've gone out to actual clubs ~20 times? That's a pretty good amount of going to clubs for someone that hates clubs so strongly. I like going to real clubs when I get the chance/ when a sick DJ is playing, but I've definitely not even been to real clubs 10 times let alone 20... It just seems strange that you'd force yourself to do something you dislike 20 times
Maybe it's a British thing, but here 20 times is nothing. Most students go at least once every week. By the time they're in their late twenties like I am, they've been hundreds of times.
Wow! Yeah I'm thinking there may be a bit of misunderstanding among people with regard to the meaning of "clubs" and "clubbing". Here in the US going to a good club might cost you $200-1000 or more depending on your group and how things are split up. 50 times out to the club would put quite a hole in the pockets! Just going to bars/pubs is much cheaper of course -- but I understand going to "the club" as going in with a group and getting a table + service and the whole shebang
Hah. Yes, over here that would be equivalent to the most pretentious London club. Over here you're looking at £30 outside London for a night of "clubbing".
Ah interesting. I think what you're referring to when you have been talking about clubs is what in the US we call "college bars" aka big wet loud cheap smelly shitshows. Fun, but only if you're blackout. Totally understandable when people hate this environment. If you go to a legit club, say, Hakkasan in Vegas for Eric Prydz live with 10 friends and bottle service, you're looking at an entirely different feel and experience. Incomparable to a college bar mess
So, recently, in between my endless strings of SCII games and LoL matches that usually last well into the night (making me wonder if I should get myself checked for insomnia), I have been hitting the club dance floors again as my friends have lured me back into that large loud room exploding with drunk peoples. And somehow, it felt like I'm enjoying it more than I used to back when I was a freshman/sophomore.
And so I took a moment to reflect back. And I came to the conclusion that there are certain things that makes people get clubbing to grow in them.
Premise 1: Some people like clubbing, while others do not (here I am not differentiating the people who go clubbing whether they like it or not due to "peer pressure" or other external influences)
Premise 2: There must be something different between the two groups of people mentioned above, whether it be nature (born shy/quiet vs outgoing/loud personality, genes, etc.) or nurture (growing new sets of interests associated with clubbing e.g. style/fashion, alcohol, exercise/workout, attraction to opposite (or same) gender, house/electro/R&B music genres, socializing with people with interests similar to those mentioned above)
Inference and conclusion: People who do not like going to clubs have few to no interests in its associating factors i.e. music genre, alcohol, attraction, dance etc. This may be due to their personality or gene, making them avoid the above interests and people associated with such interests. Or, they may simply not have had the opportunity or chance to mingle with such groups (which would make sense because many clubbers are really social and friendly, so no reason to avoid them when approached, really). People who have grown to like clubbing over time have been having growing interest in its associative factors, or have had friends as such and have been slowly or quickly integrated in clubbing community. People who fall in love with clubbing the first time they go are just born that way and are directly comfortable with enjoying its music, atmosphere, people, and related activities.
Thoughts ? Does my logic have flaws ? (Well, I'm sure you could poke holes in it, like for every argument, but what I really mean is, does it make no sense at all and have I wasted my time trying to make a cognitive model that makes no sense) Could someone who absolutely despises nightclubs down to their very bones suddenly wake up one morning and realize how much they've missed in life ? Or will they continue living thinking how stupid and a waste of time and money it is to dress up late at night, go to a gigantic hall blasting music to our ear temples packed with drunk people and mindlessly moving their bodies to some monotonic beat? Or will they realize the magic of drowning the mind and body to the effects of massive house/electro drops of Knife Party and Afrojack, dancing to its beat with a cute lady, body up close and smelling her perfume, with perhaps a chance of continuing into a prolonged adventure with her throughout the night ?
PS: If you want to share some awesome venues/events near your places, it would be nice Also, feel free to share house/electro/r&b music you like, and raves and other events you know are upcoming and are planning to attend
Never considered that, you may be right. If it can be of help, I'm one of those guys who "hates" clubs (where hate stands for "I went a couple of times, got bored rather quickly and never went again") and I fall into your second premise: I'm not shy, nor have any problems with people... rather the opposite. The thing is: the very few times I've been to a club I simply couldn't have fun with others, basically since it looked like people weren't there to really meet people but rather just to fuck/be blasted/dance. Guys? All too busy to look cool or impress girls, almost impossible to speak with someone especially since the ones who didn't look like mental cases (50 yo, alone and with a creepy look) were already in groups and weren't clearly interested in talking with someone else who hadn't boobies. Girls? Completely wasted or completely under siege from a dozen horny males. Hanging with my group? Well, we cannot even talk decently...
If I go to the pub with some friends I may be able to get the same thing (be completely wasted) but at least I get to speak with people and eventually learn something new or meet someone funny. Probably if I happened to grow up with a sort of club culture it would be different, but for the time being I generally consider clubs like some place made for guys who want to fuck or girls who want to have a blast. Dunno, it feels like the music is a pretext rather than the main purpose of the night.
Not that it's a bad thing, but I believe that pubs or concerts let you have cool/fun/whatever experiences while being at the same time cheaper and more interaction-friendly.
Edit for clarification: italian here, no idea how clubbing may be in other countries.
You might have fun, but the reality is that clubs are about men approaching women, not the other way around. It's a fact of zoology that this leads to competition and results essentially in peacock tails being grown.
What is your definition of health? Is all competition unhealthy, or just this kind? Why or why not? Men approach women more than vice versa in pretty much every social context I can think of. It's not particularly fair, IMO, but I'd argue that most of it is fairly benignly ingrained due to a long, long history of men approaching women rather than any actual unhealthy thoughts or malice.
Some are not. GreenGringo is talking about the generic club you can find in most major cities (current pop-music only, gold-diggers, women with no clothing standing in line during snow so they can still be 'sexy', douchebags with visors and sock/sandal combos, Usually in the news about the latest rape/gun-fire/alcohol abuse incidents). Maybe it is you who hasn't experienced those?
Let me get this straight: GreenGringo is not talking about "most clubs" that, as you say, are "pretty damn cool." Instead he's talking about the "generic club you can find in most major cities." How does that even make any sense? If "most" of these music-related events are "pretty damn cool," then how can the generic club that you can apparently find all over the place be the terrible kind? Your first assertion seems to say that most of these place are cool, but then you go on to say that the most common kind in major cities sucks? That seems pretty contradictory to me. There's also the notion that you're literally arguing against a stereotype that nobody is or was defending, and which has nothing to do with why people were raising eyebrows against GreenGringo's rather harsh judgments on clubs as a measure of the depravity of the entire civilization.
It also doesn't make any sense to talk about "club culture" when what you really mean is something that exists mostly on reality TV/isn't all that common and isn't at all common to the average 18-24 year-old, which is the group GreenGringo pointed out. Unless you're defending the notion that the average 18-24 year-old is basically forced to engage in these kinds of socialization (i.e. the "bad" kinds of clubs like the constructed stereotype you mentioned) which is what GreenGringo is arguing, then you're talking about different things.
I was arguing about if from the perspective of music as art. Of course the club-owners will put on the music that most of the people that go there will want.
There is no consensus on what art is, and there never has been.
Are we talking about "clubs" that are basically pick-up joints were the only music you will hear is the same as what is on MTV? Are we talking about rave-like bars that mainly adhere to DJs that create original content via mixes and other means?
These aren't the only options. That's the problem with your line of reasoning. You sneak in the idea that clubs playing popular music are pick-up joints whereas those with "original content" are more normal. Aside from the fact that this is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand, it's a dishonest form of argumentation. We're talking about clubs that aren't the gigantic Jersey Shore stereotype you mentioned; we're talking about the kind that 18-24 year olds tend to go to en masse, no only the guidos among them. The music played is neither here nor there, and your inserting of musical tendencies into your premises is a construction of a false dichotomy, because playing popular music doesn't imply that a club is a pick-up joint, or anything else.
The pick-up joints where everyone is dressed in whatever tarded trend is the coolest these days. The place where a self-respecting woman has to keep her drink in her hand to avoid being roofied. The place where the girl's bathroom is synonymous to a cocaine mirror. The place where you see the same 40+ year old man trying to pick up girls just out of highschool every single week.
I'm not sure what clubs you go to, but most of the average university students I know (i.e. the ones in the 18-24 demographic who are going out on Friday nights) don't attend satisfying all of these properties. Again, you try to link properties together that don't need to be together. Just because people at clubs dress trendily (actually, I'd say people dress trendily whenever they go anywhere remotely social, but whatever) doesn't have anything to do with getting roofied or doing coke in the girl's bathroom. You're being ridiculously hyperbolic and painting a picture that damns completely harmless things like dressing trendily by associating them with doing coke in a bathroom stall.
People in clubs will generally be more materialistic than most other places you go.
That's because people in clubs are generally quite young. People in the 18-24 year-old demographic usually don't have spouses and children yet, so their love of family is limited to their parents & siblings. While many youth value family, they are also materialistic in general (in my experience) because they want to prove themselves and have something to show for their identity. Some youth represent attach their self-worth to wealth, some to sexual partners, some to grades, some to friends, and so on. I'd say you'd be hard pressed to go to any university and not find a large number of materialistic people. It's not like all the family-loving angels stay in their dorms while the depraved neanderthals go to the clubs. Introverts aren't necessarily less materialistic than extroverts; they just show it in different ways.
Yes, it's complete baloney. The 1970s wasn't as materialistic as the 1980s. It's a fact.
Of course, they had clubbing in the 70s. I have to wonder whether that would be more down my street. Judging by stories of my parents, clubbing in the 70s seemed to be entirely about getting smashed and relieving your baser instincts...and no lame excuses about it being about "socializing" and "meeting people" and whatnot. These days it seems to be more akin to competition in trendiness (and even a competition in wealth in many cases).
Lol. Somehow getting smashed and relieving your baser instincts is totally fine, but horrifying things like asserting your fashion sense or showing off are deplorable. You do realize that both of those things are also about relieving base instincts, right? People love to feel good about themselves, especially at that age when everything is so uncertain. Whether they do this by dressing up in a way that they like (you shouldn't assume that people dressing up are necessarily doing so dishonestly; lots of people actually like trends, hence why they're trends) or by drinking tonnes of alcohol, or by having copious amounts of sex is neither here nor there, and it amuses me that, of these three things, the latter two of which are probably about a hundred times more dangerous/serious than the former, you take offense to the former as some grand indictment of civilization's moral character. But getting completely smashed and relieving your instincts is fine. Gotcha.
This isn't an appropriate place to play the race card.
Of course it was horrible that racism was so rife, but guess what? Race relations aren't the be all and end all of life. It's entirely possible for cultures to be primitive on race relations and more advanced than us in various other ways.
I wasn't playing the race card. I was giving an example (one among dozens and dozens of possible examples) of a sense in which the 1950's was much more shallow than the present day, and was so in a far more sinister way than mere trendy fashion. I'm of the mind that your disdain for this competitive trendiness is probably really biased and not nearly as much of a big deal as you make it out to be. I also think that you're drastically underestimating the extent to which previous generations valued fashion. I don't know why, but every once in awhile someone comes along who thinks that the 1950's were a wholesome time of family values and everything was really swell and homely. Except that's only really true if your understanding of a 1950's -era family comes from movies rather than actual history.
I notice you didn't touch no-fault divorce, either. Maybe I can help you understand why your appeal to the 1950's is silly: the reason that the 1950's was "less materialistic" has nothing to do with its values being any better; they weren't all generous people who cared little for material wealth and placed emphasis on the great worth of the human person. First off, I'd argue that the 1950's wasn't particularly "less materialistic" as it was more "family-values" oriented in that very American/Christianized sense. In fact, a lot of 1950's values that everyone likes to praise were based on a very outmoded, sexist, and unjust model of a nuclear family with a husband at its head, a loving, devoted wife who tended the house/raised the children, and obedient kids who never talked back to their parents and always said please & thankyou. Sounds idyllic, right? Too bad this religiously founded model of the family pretty much meant that any deviation from the norm was met with social ostracizing or even legal action (e.g. people used to actually be prosecuted for fucking adultery). You can't just say "oh the 1950's were so much less materialistic; we should do more of that" because the 1950's-era family-centric value system is inseparable from this lack of materialism.
I wish we lived in a less materialistic society; I really do (I'm an ardent socialist). But if we become less materialistic, it shouldn't be the way it was in the 1950's, where our lack of (overt) materialism was driven by religious fear, gender roles, strict social guidelines, and a generally lesser amount of extra money.
In my first year, I wasn't so lucky, and there was simply no common activity in the dorm except clubbing. Everyone I know who wasn't into clubbing reports a similar experience: either they made friends based on common interests, or they became isolated.
This isn't clubbing's fault. This isn't anyone's fault. Sometimes you just don't have the same interests as the vast majority of people. I've never particularly cared for "dances" in general, and yet during high school those were the primary "social" events that existed. It wasn't a slight against me that they had dances; most people loved them. Neither did it make me a social reject, and, besides, any friends I lost by merely my dislike of dances weren't worth being friends with to begin with.
Also, in general, I've noticed that both of you guys seem to be paint a very negative, very hyperbolic picture of clubs. I don't just mean a little bit extreme, either. You're acting like almost everyone in the 18-24 demographic is doing coke every Friday, faking London banker accents (???) to get laid, and spiking girls' drinks...
Dropping >£100 in any London club with table service isn't really any better. And you sure don't want to listen to a hype set sat down on some table anyways.
I blame DJ Kentaro for making most other DJ's shit. + Show Spoiler +
It's fun to see the violent polarity in this thread! You either love it, or hate it.
I'm on the side of the introvert / "antisocial" / fuck clubbing side of the fence. The things communicated and shared in a club environment aren't things I'm interested in and while I can appreciate that other people are all for the things shared in that environment, for me it is a small slice of hell.
...that said, that's in large part because my life so far has better suited an introvert's style. I moved a fuckton of times as a kid and was raised religious (in a manner that applied negative stigmas to drugs/sex/booze/'heathens') that stuck around long enough to phase me past the age where it was easy to get inundated into club culture, and leave me afterwards not looking for or associating often with people who participate in that lifestyle anymore.
On one hand, it feels like something I missed out on... but on the other hand, I don't think I'm any worse off for it.
On July 24 2013 08:06 FallDownMarigold wrote: Ah interesting. I think what you're referring to when you have been talking about clubs is what in the US we call "college bars" aka big wet loud cheap smelly shitshows. Fun, but only if you're blackout. Totally understandable when people hate this environment. If you go to a legit club, say, Hakkasan in Vegas for Eric Prydz live with 10 friends and bottle service, you're looking at an entirely different feel and experience. Incomparable to a college bar mess
goddamn. what world have i lived in all these years T_T
but i think generally 'clubbing' is just like that in everywhere in europe, i have only heard about opening table etc in asia (and US, from the previous post of yours).
I used to absolutely hate it when I was younger. I got annoyed by all the people, by all the drinking, the loudness, etc. and just felt like I wasn't really that kind of person and so I couldn't enjoy it because of the environment around me.
But as I've gotten older I think I've just kind of stopped "hating" things so much and learned to just not really care so much about what other people do, and to just let it go and have fun. So in general I enjoy clubbing/going to bars these days.
I'm a very introverted person that loves clubbing. It's mostly that I really love dancing, but also that the club is *contrary to popular belief* a complete antisocial event. Seriously - you can hardly speak to anyone because of the loud music. Which is perfect for me since I don't really like talking anyways.
On July 24 2013 06:27 theodorus12 wrote: How is it a "valid view point" if someone is just spouting prejudices around about something he has no idea of (how would he, if he thinks he doesn't like clubbing and maybe went there 2 times..)?
I've been to clubs more like 20 times. Not a lot compared with you, I'm sure, but still enough for me to reach a few conclusions. Be assured that I approached them as an objective anthropologist most times I went there.
On July 24 2013 08:24 Shiori wrote: I don't know why, but every once in awhile someone comes along who thinks that the 1950's were a wholesome time of family values and everything was really swell and homely. Except that's only really true if your understanding of a 1950's -era family comes from movies rather than actual history.
We've established that we were "divided by a common language" and there was a disconnect between British interpretation of "clubbing" and that of Americans. So unfortunately most of your post is irrelevant.
However, I must respond to this part. You try to prove that the 1950s were backward by appealing to one form of political correctness after another. Of course we're ahead of the 50s in sensitivity to women and minorities. But that's one of the defining features of the age in which we live, so it would be very surprising indeed if that weren't the case.
There's all kinds of quantifiable, objective ways in which the 50s was better than today. Crime and wealth inequality were lower, and there was virtually full employment back then. There was nowhere near the same culture of marketing and advertising and "manufactured needs". When you went to buy groceries, you got to establish a relationship with the vendor. People were in general closer knit.
FYI, I don't just watch movies from the 50s, but have studied this at a deep level, e.g. history of science and scientific papers from the 50s. And in this field I note all kinds of ways in which their way of doing things was better. Contrary to popular belief, it's not just because it's harder to make progress now that there were more breakthroughs in the 50s. They were far more theoretically inclined. As one example, the Hodgkin–Huxley model mathematical theory of neurons from the 50s makes today's climate of merely quoting the results of MRI scans look pretty childish. I could go on. You're not talking about a bunch of Troglodyte bigots who think women should be punched, but a highly advanced society that invented the transistor (based on the relativistic quantum mechanics of semiconductors) and with it modern electronics, developed computers, and made all kinds of groundbreaking discoveries.
Yes, today we're better with women and minorities. But that's by no means the be all and end all of life. Judging a society by its conformity to political correctness feels a lot like a 16th century Christian tarring millions of people as heathens. The Christians might have had a point about human sacrifice, just like you have a point about race relations. Doesn't matter: judging people by one narrow standard is pretty downright crude, misleading, and yes, that's right, shallow.
On July 23 2013 12:32 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote: I absolutely despise clubbing, but it's the place with the highest percentage of young single women in one place so needs must.
Seconded.
If it weren't for the abundant amount of attractive, single, drunk tail available, I'm convinced most men would forgo the whole experience.
Clubbing is awesome but in most places its just an excuse to get high (nothing wrong with that as getting high is awesome as well).
Anyway, it's tomorrowland weekend, bitches!
Also you guys may want to check a festival in the dead sea (Ukraine) called Kazantip, it starts at the end of the month and goes for 4 weeks, that's my next ''go before get married'' on the list.
On July 23 2013 12:32 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote: I absolutely despise clubbing, but it's the place with the highest percentage of young single women in one place so needs must.
Seconded.
If it weren't for the abundant amount of attractive, single, drunk tail available, I'm convinced most men would forgo the whole experience.
Oh, such modern, non-misogynistic values... do you perhaps attend the wildly non-puke-inducing discussions in the "dating" thread as well?
On July 24 2013 08:06 FallDownMarigold wrote: Ah interesting. I think what you're referring to when you have been talking about clubs is what in the US we call "college bars" aka big wet loud cheap smelly shitshows. Fun, but only if you're blackout. Totally understandable when people hate this environment. If you go to a legit club, say, Hakkasan in Vegas for Eric Prydz live with 10 friends and bottle service, you're looking at an entirely different feel and experience. Incomparable to a college bar mess
I've been to clubs with quite popular DJs hitting the decks several times and even in highschool I was able to afford these nights. Sure I'm not talking bottle service, but that's not what I'm going for anyway.
On July 24 2013 10:04 GreenGringo wrote: Contrary to popular belief, it's not just because it's harder to make progress now that there were more breakthroughs in the 50s. They were far more theoretically inclined. As one example, the Hodgkin–Huxley model mathematical theory of neurons from the 50s makes today's climate of merely quoting the results of MRI scans look pretty childish. I could go on.
hate to take the off topic bait, but really, it is pretty absurd to suggest that current science progress is less "theoretically inclined" (whatever that means) vs. science progress in the 50s. Hodgkin, Huxley, Cajal, etc., definitely did cool and really important things for neuroscience -- but they weren't the last ones. Since the days of those guys neuroscience research has expanded so much that it now actually produces more papers annually than biochem, molecular bio, or cell bio. There are still incredible findings being made today, that go beyond "reporting MRI results".
You definitely should not use science progress/thinking as a way to illustrate how the 50s was better.
On July 24 2013 10:04 GreenGringo wrote: Contrary to popular belief, it's not just because it's harder to make progress now that there were more breakthroughs in the 50s. They were far more theoretically inclined. As one example, the Hodgkin–Huxley model mathematical theory of neurons from the 50s makes today's climate of merely quoting the results of MRI scans look pretty childish. I could go on.
hate to take the off topic bait, but really, it is pretty absurd to suggest that current science progress is less "theoretically inclined" (whatever that means) vs. science progress in the 50s. Hodgkin, Huxley, Cajal, etc., definitely did cool and really important things for neuroscience -- but they weren't the last ones. Since the days of those guys neuroscience research has expanded so much that it now actually produces more papers annually than biochem, molecular bio, or cell bio. There are still incredible findings being made today, that go beyond "reporting MRI results".
You definitely should not use science progress/thinking as a way to illustrate how the 50s was better.
Give a single piece of work that was remotely as groundbreaking as the Hodgkin-Huxley model.
For that matter...give a single theoretical piece of work in neuroscience from the last two decades. You'll either get some verbal handwaving or a neural net that's so specific that it can't possibly be fundamental in the field.
As I said, I've studied this and plenty of scientists and historians of science would agree. To wave it off as "absurd" before you even have time to dignify it is pretty insulting.
On July 24 2013 10:04 GreenGringo wrote: Contrary to popular belief, it's not just because it's harder to make progress now that there were more breakthroughs in the 50s. They were far more theoretically inclined. As one example, the Hodgkin–Huxley model mathematical theory of neurons from the 50s makes today's climate of merely quoting the results of MRI scans look pretty childish. I could go on.
hate to take the off topic bait, but really, it is pretty absurd to suggest that current science progress is less "theoretically inclined" (whatever that means) vs. science progress in the 50s. Hodgkin, Huxley, Cajal, etc., definitely did cool and really important things for neuroscience -- but they weren't the last ones. Since the days of those guys neuroscience research has expanded so much that it now actually produces more papers annually than biochem, molecular bio, or cell bio. There are still incredible findings being made today, that go beyond "reporting MRI results".
You definitely should not use science progress/thinking as a way to illustrate how the 50s was better.
Give a single piece of work that was remotely as groundbreaking as the Hodgkin-Huxley model.
For that matter...give a single theoretical piece of work in neuroscience from the last two decades. You'll either get some verbal handwaving or a neural net that's so specific that it can't possibly be fundamental in the field.
As I said, I've studied this and plenty of scientists and historians of science would agree. To wave it off as "absurd" before you even have time to dignify it is pretty insulting.
To be fair, the "groundbreaking" aspect just means that pre 1950 neuroscience was so crappy that you still could do these huge breakthroughs. It doesn't mean moderns scientists are less theoretical or that things haven't progressed.
I think a lot of people that dislike clubbing havn't given it enough of a chance. Part of whats made it more enjoyable for me as I went more and more was appreciating that you didn't have to be peer-pressured into behaving a certain way at a club, and to not care about what others think about you. Ultimately, clubbing should be a means to having fun and enjoying yourself. Liking the music helps, being able to dance helps and enjoying alcohol helps, but ultimately it is your mindset that makes the difference between enjoying yourself and feeling awkward or bored. I don't want to come off as someone who seems like they know much about the clubbing scene or anything, but maybe the people who dislike it should try and give it a chance: go to clubs that play music you enjoy, learn how to order some cocktails and drinks you like or want to try and just enjoy the fact that its not everyday you can go out and party without worry.
On July 23 2013 22:41 aksfjh wrote: I just don't like being around people that are high.
While I'm not necessarily this way, my girlfriend is; I can empathize some. One thing I've noticed about clubbing is that it really isn't for everyone. The emphasis on getting drunk or high with friends feels like a return to peer-pressure situations, and not a fun time. If I don't drink or do drugs because I don't think those two are good for me as a person, then I'm pretty much sunk in a club since I'm not going to be drinking or doing MDMA with anyone in there; they might as well just not talk to me lol. Also, I find that when people become high/drunk they find themselves (what they say and do) much more funny than it actually is, and another person has to be similarly drunk/high to appreciate it and laugh.
That is part of it. I don't like using drugs or alcohol to have fun, or make a situation better. If enough people around me are doing it, it becomes a prerequisite to having a "good time" to an extent, and that's just not my thing. I've been around drunk/high people that weren't a pain-in-the-ass to deal with while I was sober, but I don't think the drunk/high difference ever made my experience better.
On some level, it sucks because I miss out on a lot of shows I want to go to, but I don't lose sleep over it.
I find it hard to enjoy conversations with people that I don't know at all. Every conversation ends with me feeling like I am talking just for sake of talking and causes me to cut it short. I understand why people like it and I am not saying that everyone is having a dumb conversation. I kind of feel like that social energy that hits me every once in awhile where I want to talk about anything and everything at a party is buzzing in other hyper social people 24/7 and I just can't relate ha. I am in a transitionary period in my life right now though, I could see myself enjoying that type of socialization more when I come out the other side. A lot of people are like "ya man I like talking about anything with anyone as long as im interested" and I am always surprised at how much random stuff those people find interesting that they want to talk about it for minutes on end.
Also I have a big problem with enjoying what "clubbing" is, help me understand. I am in no way some anti-social rebel but I can't help but feel like some pathetic comformist bozo hopping around with a ton of other people in like this ritual to force myself to have fun. Like maybe if I hop around in sink with everyone else I will have as much fun as them? Its like when people have those conversations "Dude I got sooooo drunk last night man, blah blah" and everyone else chips in how HOW DRUNK they were the previous night as well. I just feel fucking weird participating in those things where everyone just kind of goes a along with the "this is awesome!" vibe just because everyone else is doing it.
And yes I am bitter that I have trouble enjoying it, because clearly a lot of people do. I don't know what to do about it though other than block it out my perspective so I don't feel left out.
On July 24 2013 08:34 Staboteur wrote: It's fun to see the violent polarity in this thread! You either love it, or hate it.
I'm on the side of the introvert / "antisocial" / fuck clubbing side of the fence. The things communicated and shared in a club environment aren't things I'm interested in and while I can appreciate that other people are all for the things shared in that environment, for me it is a small slice of hell.
...that said, that's in large part because my life so far has better suited an introvert's style. I moved a fuckton of times as a kid and was raised religious (in a manner that applied negative stigmas to drugs/sex/booze/'heathens') that stuck around long enough to phase me past the age where it was easy to get inundated into club culture, and leave me afterwards not looking for or associating often with people who participate in that lifestyle anymore.
On one hand, it feels like something I missed out on... but on the other hand, I don't think I'm any worse off for it.
This. I'm also surprised, especially since I went from not enjoying clubs to loving them myself, I guess it kind of gives me multiple perspectives on the subject, hopefully a better understanding for both poles/parties.
On another note, I've noticed there was growing talk about introversion and extroversion in relation to clubbing, and I thought I might add my two cents on this one.
I used to be, throughout middle-to-high-school, a really quiet, shy guy who played a lot of video games and read Japanese manga, and had few interests in physical exercise and fashion. I also used to be a drumming enthusiast and played in rock bands, and had zero fondness for club-like environments. Instead, my interests lied in musical instruments, stage performance, and games.
It was only once I entered university in North America, after having being honorably discharged from the Swiss army, that my perspectives began shifting, and my previously quasi-dead interests in alcohol, fashion and clothing, as well as physical exercise and new music genre took off. This may or may not be due to the radical change in environment I went through (from Europe to NA, from living with family to living by myself, and a total change in friends and acquaintances). Anyhow, I rapidly grew a strong liking to electro/house, stylish fashion, bodybuilding and working out, and tanking bottle after bottle of alcohol with friends at parties. Fondness of clubbing soon followed suit
So if I follow your argument, would that somehow make me an actual extrovert, whose extroversive features have somehow been suppressed by my surroundings until I began to live by myself? Or perhaps, could I be an introvert who somehow grew a liking to extroversive activities? I'm not sure how you would interpret my case, but I'm sure there are lots of kids like me out there who used to be shy and quiet, and began to change as something in their environment changed. Perhaps people's "natures" and personalities change over time as well?
On July 24 2013 08:34 Staboteur wrote: It's fun to see the violent polarity in this thread! You either love it, or hate it.
I'm on the side of the introvert / "antisocial" / fuck clubbing side of the fence. The things communicated and shared in a club environment aren't things I'm interested in and while I can appreciate that other people are all for the things shared in that environment, for me it is a small slice of hell.
...that said, that's in large part because my life so far has better suited an introvert's style. I moved a fuckton of times as a kid and was raised religious (in a manner that applied negative stigmas to drugs/sex/booze/'heathens') that stuck around long enough to phase me past the age where it was easy to get inundated into club culture, and leave me afterwards not looking for or associating often with people who participate in that lifestyle anymore.
On one hand, it feels like something I missed out on... but on the other hand, I don't think I'm any worse off for it.
This. I'm also surprised, especially since I went from not enjoying clubs to loving them myself, I guess it kind of gives me multiple perspectives on the subject, hopefully a better understanding for both poles/parties.
On another note, I've noticed there was growing talk about introversion and extroversion in relation to clubbing, and I thought I might add my two cents on this one.
I used to be, throughout middle-to-high-school, a really quiet, shy guy who played a lot of video games and read Japanese manga, and had few interests in physical exercise and fashion. I also used to be a drumming enthusiast and played in rock bands, and had zero fondness for club-like environments. Instead, my interests lied in musical instruments, stage performance, and games.
It was only once I entered university in North America, after having being honorably discharged from the Swiss army, that my perspectives began shifting, and my previously quasi-dead interests in alcohol, fashion and clothing, as well as physical exercise and new music genre took off. This may or may not be due to the radical change in environment I went through (from Europe to NA, from living with family to living by myself, and a total change in friends and acquaintances). Anyhow, I rapidly grew a strong liking to electro/house, stylish fashion, bodybuilding and working out, and tanking bottle after bottle of alcohol with friends at parties. Fondness of clubbing soon followed suit
So if I follow your argument, would that somehow make me an actual extrovert, whose extroversive features have somehow been suppressed by my surroundings until I began to live by myself? Or perhaps, could I be an introvert who somehow grew a liking to extroversive activities? I'm not sure how you would interpret my case, but I'm sure there are lots of kids like me out there who used to be shy and quiet, and began to change as something in their environment changed. Perhaps people's "natures" and personalities change over time as well?
I would say you are more extroverted. That whole dynamic is about how you react to social energy not that you like computers vs. parties. I think a lot of people have experiences like you where they just did their own thing in their early years(high school) and I don't consider that introverted behavior. I get kind of annoyed honestly when people are like "ya I was an introvert back in high school but then I went to college and found beer!". You weren't an introvert in high school, you were just too dumb to find a scene or group of people who you felt like dealing out your social capitol with. The "you" was 3rd person, not directed at the above poster.
I am very extroverted and I still do not like "clubbing" (what an awful word). I do it occasionally as my social bonds require me to do so. Dancing and all of that is not that bad, but really if I want to dance I can do that at home as well with music that I can choose in the volume I like with good air and people I like etc.etc.etc. For me, going to a club has not a single USP.
I spent the best clubbing years of my life in front of a computer learning skills that have since landed me a dream job on national television. Even so, I fear I might've missed out on some really important and awesome stuff.
On July 24 2013 11:48 spkim1 wrote:So if I follow your argument, would that somehow make me an actual extrovert, whose extroversive features have somehow been suppressed by my surroundings until I began to live by myself? Or perhaps, could I be an introvert who somehow grew a liking to extroversive activities? I'm not sure how you would interpret my case, but I'm sure there are lots of kids like me out there who used to be shy and quiet, and began to change as something in their environment changed. Perhaps people's "natures" and personalities change over time as well?
Yes, there's no doubt personalities are malleable and can change over time. Nothing's biologically determined about this.
Usually though to change as significantly as you have, some serious effort is required or at least a fundamental shift in environment (or possibly both).
On July 24 2013 10:04 GreenGringo wrote: ... Contrary to popular belief, it's not just because it's harder to make progress now that there were more breakthroughs in the 50s. They were far more theoretically inclined. As one example, the Hodgkin–Huxley model mathematical theory of neurons from the 50s makes today's climate of merely quoting the results of MRI scans look pretty childish. I could go on. You're not talking about a bunch of Troglodyte bigots who think women should be punched, but a highly advanced society that invented the transistor (based on the relativistic quantum mechanics of semiconductors) and with it modern electronics, developed computers, and made all kinds of groundbreaking discoveries. ...
Hi Green Gringo. I appreciate your ability to discuss things without emotion involvement. And thanks for sharing your opinions. But I don't agree with what you said here. How can you measure society development by progress of science? Science community and the rest of people are much unconnected methinks. To exaggerate, average people are idiots.
Like most of you, my friends and I used to go "clubbing" very frequently between the ages of 18 to about..22? I'd say? But just as many have pointed out, it's not cheap, you generally will get very bad music, and you aren't there to socialize with others so much. Plus someone will likely throw up, you'll be walking in the cold from one venue to the next, and yeah...so in the end we have turned to house parties, which we have quite frequently, at which we can drink a lot more for a fair bit less ($), play music we like, and at the same time also socialize more.
That being said, we went out on a Saturday about a month ago (albeit reluctantly), and had a pretty excellent time. No thanks to the other people there, really. But I'm sure it depends on what you go out for. Pub crawls have in my experience also been really fun for meeting people, despite the loud music.
But yes, nowadays we'll go to clubs very infrequently. House parties are where it's at, and otherwise we might all go out for dinner, then go to a pub or a cocktail bar, and then head to whoever's place is available and has alcohol/whatever we would like set up.
On a related note, I think that a number of significant factors such as personality traits, geography, habits, and the company you keep likely determine your experiences, and what you took away from them. For one, I think if you have a partner, you might enjoy it less, particularly if the partner in question is also present. But for some, it's quite the opposite. So eh.
On July 24 2013 10:04 GreenGringo wrote: ... Contrary to popular belief, it's not just because it's harder to make progress now that there were more breakthroughs in the 50s. They were far more theoretically inclined. As one example, the Hodgkin–Huxley model mathematical theory of neurons from the 50s makes today's climate of merely quoting the results of MRI scans look pretty childish. I could go on. You're not talking about a bunch of Troglodyte bigots who think women should be punched, but a highly advanced society that invented the transistor (based on the relativistic quantum mechanics of semiconductors) and with it modern electronics, developed computers, and made all kinds of groundbreaking discoveries. ...
Hi Green Gringo. I appreciate your ability to discuss things without emotion involvement. And thanks for sharing your opinions. But I don't agree with what you said here. How can you measure society development by progress of science? Science community and the rest of people are much unconnected methinks. To exaggerate, average people are idiots.
I wasn't doing that. I was just giving an example of one way in which I feel the 50s was better that I've researched in depth and think is pretty interesting. Their creative achievements in science and technology put ours to shame. (And all the more so if we're talking about the West, which is rapidly losing its leadership.) IF a society is more advanced in something as high-level as their capacity for breakthroughs in fundamental science, it seems pretty likely that they're also more advanced in other ways.
I'm not saying the 50s was better; just that it was better in some aspects. Painting them as barbarians simply doesn't hold water.
More relevant would have been to quote statistics about wealth inequality, crime and unemployment (they were all lower in the 50s).
I like clubbing, but in order to do that I have to: - get a haircut and shave - wear nice clothes - be physically fit - have a minimum of 100$. - have a positive attitude.
its too much for me
I better buy couple of beers, watch some stream/movie or read a book. Or just get laid.
I go out every weekend Friday and Saturday. You don't have to spend any money honestly. Just wear nice enough clothes to get into the club and go somewhere where you don't have to pay a cover. Buy zero drinks and if you really want a drink hang around some dude who thinks that hes the shit who's in a drunken benevolent mood and he will probably throw a few drinks your way if you tell him that he's cool.
I go with my friends to meet women. It's not something I was originally good at (very far from it) but after a few months of desensitizing myself to the loud chaotic club and the bullshit that women will throw at you... glory became a normal occurrence. Being able to do it all completely sober is also a huge bonus.
Korea is an excellent place to go clubbing with friends. The thing I don't like is that the music is so god dam loud, but everything besides that is fun for me!
On July 24 2013 20:26 tomatriedes wrote: How do people pick up girls up clubs when the music is so loud you can't have conversation? Is it all body language?
You look into her eyes, she looks into yours. If neither of you can't stop staring into each other's eyes, then it's clear. I guess... :D
On July 24 2013 10:04 GreenGringo wrote: Contrary to popular belief, it's not just because it's harder to make progress now that there were more breakthroughs in the 50s. They were far more theoretically inclined. As one example, the Hodgkin–Huxley model mathematical theory of neurons from the 50s makes today's climate of merely quoting the results of MRI scans look pretty childish. I could go on.
hate to take the off topic bait, but really, it is pretty absurd to suggest that current science progress is less "theoretically inclined" (whatever that means) vs. science progress in the 50s. Hodgkin, Huxley, Cajal, etc., definitely did cool and really important things for neuroscience -- but they weren't the last ones. Since the days of those guys neuroscience research has expanded so much that it now actually produces more papers annually than biochem, molecular bio, or cell bio. There are still incredible findings being made today, that go beyond "reporting MRI results".
You definitely should not use science progress/thinking as a way to illustrate how the 50s was better.
Give a single piece of work that was remotely as groundbreaking as the Hodgkin-Huxley model.
For that matter...give a single theoretical piece of work in neuroscience from the last two decades. You'll either get some verbal handwaving or a neural net that's so specific that it can't possibly be fundamental in the field.
As I said, I've studied this and plenty of scientists and historians of science would agree. To wave it off as "absurd" before you even have time to dignify it is pretty insulting.
Umm...so because of the Hodgkin-Huxley model, we can paint the entire scientific community as being basically shitty compared to the 1950's in terms of theoretical inclination? What the fuck? I'm not hating on the 1950's-era scientific community; they discovered some incredible things. But I don't think any generation has a monopoly on important scientific discoveries, tbh. I mean, the most groundbreaking discoveries in any field, for the point of view influence, are usually the very first discoveries. Just think about how confused physics and mathematics were before Leibniz/Newton. It's not that people after them weren't creative, but that the wheel had already been invented, so it didn't need to be invented again.
I'm not really studied in neuroscience, and my argument was never to paint every aspect of the 1950's as being amazing (just their values being rather mediocre in terms of grounding) but I'm pretty sure if you look at astrophysics, computing, cosmology, and genetics, we've made massive strides since the 1950's.
On July 23 2013 12:23 spkim1 wrote: Inference and conclusion: People who do not like going to clubs have few to no interests in its associating factors i.e. music genre, alcohol, attraction, dance etc.
This is False. As many have stated in this thread, people can love music of all kinds, alcohol, attraction, dance, etc. and hate clubbing. Be it music volume, prices (clubs are often total rip offs) or even clubbers themselves (yay I wear colourful glasses in a room where I can't even see my own feet it's so fuckin dark), there are other reasons that stop people from going clubbing
On July 23 2013 12:23 spkim1 wrote: People who have grown to like clubbing over time have been having growing interest in its associative factors, or have had friends as such and have been slowly or quickly integrated in clubbing community. People who fall in love with clubbing the first time they go are just born that way and are directly comfortable with enjoying its music, atmosphere, people, and related activities.
I agree partially with this even though It's a bit simplistic and kind of applies to anyting in life ("Someone who falls in love with soccer the first time they play are just born that way and are directly comfortable with enjoying its music, atmosphere, people, and related activities"). But I agree with the first part.
On my side, I tend to avoid clubs nowadays, because a) I'm not single b) I hate commercial music c) If it's not commercial music playing, then there is a very high chance of me going on a rampage, doing a large quantity of drugs and alcohol finishing with a complete blackout and waking up on the sidewalk with half of my shit missing and a large number of bruises. I'm trying to live a healthier life thank you very much. I gotta admit though I'll still get my act together if the DJ/ Sound System is right, the friends are motivated, and it's friday night (Yeah 27 years old here, I get 2 day hangovers AT LEAST nowadays :D )
I find that the clubbing experience varies drastically depending on the type of music played at the venue.
A night out at a place playing trance or drum and bass, where everyone is fucked up on ecstacy and just dance and hug each other is vastly different to an RnB/top 40 place where everyone wants to fight you for accidentally bumping into them. And rock/metal clubs are the rowdiest but possibly also the friendliest.
Likewise, the people at more niche music places (like the dnb gigs i go to) are all totally into it, where as at more popular joints lots of people are just there cos their friends went and it's much more about picking up.
I quite frankly resent clubbing for one of those very reasons, I like drinking. You can't drink in a bloody club:
a) It's expensive as fuck to buy a drink.
b) It's literally to crowded to be able to comfortably smoke anywhere else than at a table and sometimes you can't even find a bloody table and the only means of smoking "accepted" in most clubs are cigarettes, which I do not mind but I also do not prefer if I have to chose between them and a pipe, a hookah or just rolling my own cigars than and there.
c) More so than in other places, the drinks available are generally shit and expensive shit, this might come from the fact that my tastes in beer and spirits generally differ from most people in my region.
d) You are supposed to, more or less, dance. Which is an activity that requires quite a lot of physical effort, concentration and coordination compared to walking or sitting, which are the things I generally do when drunk.
e) You are supposed to communicate with other people by screaming short sentences over the loud music or groping them. I don't know about you, but most people I know including myself, when drunk, are not able to talk very clearly and like to discuss surprisingly more personal, delicate and intellectual matter than when sober
I do not know why one would associate clubs with drinking but if you do so you are terribly wrong.
I enjoy drinking and I enjoy clubbing, but I am staying away from both, because I know that with addicting personality I might hurt my career/school...
You can definetly meet women in clubs, but I don't know if they're the right kind of women. I don't know about you guys but I wouldn't want to date a girl who I met at a club and went home with the same night, maybe it's a double standard I certainly don't have anything against girls who want to do that, it's up to them what they do, but I wouldn't want to date them.
I consider myself a pretty introverted person, I can have fun staying in but I still enjoy clubbing. It's fun to go out with friends, and to run into other people you know and to meet new people. If there's a good atmosphere and everyone's having fun it's awesome.
Sometimes there's too much testosterone and that sucks, but it's just guys who've probably only gone out to get girls and they haven't managed to and now they've got a bit of confidence because they've been drinking. But that's why music festivals are the best, it's all the fun of going out but with more good vibes and less egos.
On July 24 2013 10:04 GreenGringo wrote: Contrary to popular belief, it's not just because it's harder to make progress now that there were more breakthroughs in the 50s. They were far more theoretically inclined. As one example, the Hodgkin–Huxley model mathematical theory of neurons from the 50s makes today's climate of merely quoting the results of MRI scans look pretty childish. I could go on.
hate to take the off topic bait, but really, it is pretty absurd to suggest that current science progress is less "theoretically inclined" (whatever that means) vs. science progress in the 50s. Hodgkin, Huxley, Cajal, etc., definitely did cool and really important things for neuroscience -- but they weren't the last ones. Since the days of those guys neuroscience research has expanded so much that it now actually produces more papers annually than biochem, molecular bio, or cell bio. There are still incredible findings being made today, that go beyond "reporting MRI results".
You definitely should not use science progress/thinking as a way to illustrate how the 50s was better.
Give a single piece of work that was remotely as groundbreaking as the Hodgkin-Huxley model.
For that matter...give a single theoretical piece of work in neuroscience from the last two decades. You'll either get some verbal handwaving or a neural net that's so specific that it can't possibly be fundamental in the field.
As I said, I've studied this and plenty of scientists and historians of science would agree. To wave it off as "absurd" before you even have time to dignify it is pretty insulting.
That's cool- plenty of scientists and historians would disagree too. It is absurd to say that science in the 50s was less "theoretically inclined" than it is now based on the mere fact that Hodgkin and Huxley made important discoveries. All it indicates is that you have no understanding or appreciation for modern research
Cite some sources that argue/prove "science in the 50s was more 'theoretically inclined'" if it's not just your personal opinion
On July 24 2013 22:17 Shiori wrote: I'm not really studied in neuroscience, and my argument was never to paint every aspect of the 1950's as being amazing (just their values being rather mediocre in terms of grounding) but I'm pretty sure if you look at astrophysics, computing, cosmology, and genetics, we've made massive strides since the 1950's.
Astrophysics: Stellar nucleosynthesis finally understood with seminal work from Hoyle in 1954.
Computing: First electronic computers built. Foundations of computer programming developed as well as various other associated technology even down to fibre optic cables.
Genetics: Double-helix model of DNA and basic principles of genetics.
Cosmology: Field didn't really take off until after Einstein's death, but Golden Age of general relativity began in late 50s with Finkelstein discovering that black holes have event horizons.
I challenge you to name any theoretical breakthroughs in these fields from the last two decades that comes close to these achievements. (And please...don't say "the Human Genome Project".)
I like dancing, but I despise music so loud that its impossible to hear each other. Especially the type of shit they play in clubs. Clubs are usually filled with people who wants to meet other people. But the loud music makes it generally impossible to actually do so. "HI!" "WHAT?!" "I SAID HI!" "YOU'RE HIGH!? GET OUT OF HERE FREAK!". Also the prices and taste of most beverages are pretty shit.
It's ironic how clubs are designed to drink, socialize and dance. But because of their very nature, you can't do any of it.
On July 24 2013 10:04 GreenGringo wrote: Contrary to popular belief, it's not just because it's harder to make progress now that there were more breakthroughs in the 50s. They were far more theoretically inclined. As one example, the Hodgkin–Huxley model mathematical theory of neurons from the 50s makes today's climate of merely quoting the results of MRI scans look pretty childish. I could go on.
hate to take the off topic bait, but really, it is pretty absurd to suggest that current science progress is less "theoretically inclined" (whatever that means) vs. science progress in the 50s. Hodgkin, Huxley, Cajal, etc., definitely did cool and really important things for neuroscience -- but they weren't the last ones. Since the days of those guys neuroscience research has expanded so much that it now actually produces more papers annually than biochem, molecular bio, or cell bio. There are still incredible findings being made today, that go beyond "reporting MRI results".
You definitely should not use science progress/thinking as a way to illustrate how the 50s was better.
Give a single piece of work that was remotely as groundbreaking as the Hodgkin-Huxley model.
For that matter...give a single theoretical piece of work in neuroscience from the last two decades. You'll either get some verbal handwaving or a neural net that's so specific that it can't possibly be fundamental in the field.
As I said, I've studied this and plenty of scientists and historians of science would agree. To wave it off as "absurd" before you even have time to dignify it is pretty insulting.
That's cool- plenty of scientists and historians would disagree too. It is absurd to say that science in the 50s was less "theoretically inclined" than it is now based on the mere fact that Hodgkin and Huxley made important discoveries. All it indicates is that you have no understanding or appreciation for modern research
Cite some sources that argue/prove "science in the 50s was more 'theoretically inclined'" if it's not just your personal opinion
You haven't given a single example of a theoretical achievement from the last two decades that even potentially could come close to the literally dozens that I could list from the 50s. See my last post for just the tip of the ice-berg. I haven't even mentioned Chomsky's theory of universal grammar, the work of Konrad Lorenz is ethology, and many, many other things which have been followed almost religiously ever since.
On July 24 2013 10:04 GreenGringo wrote: Contrary to popular belief, it's not just because it's harder to make progress now that there were more breakthroughs in the 50s. They were far more theoretically inclined. As one example, the Hodgkin–Huxley model mathematical theory of neurons from the 50s makes today's climate of merely quoting the results of MRI scans look pretty childish. I could go on.
hate to take the off topic bait, but really, it is pretty absurd to suggest that current science progress is less "theoretically inclined" (whatever that means) vs. science progress in the 50s. Hodgkin, Huxley, Cajal, etc., definitely did cool and really important things for neuroscience -- but they weren't the last ones. Since the days of those guys neuroscience research has expanded so much that it now actually produces more papers annually than biochem, molecular bio, or cell bio. There are still incredible findings being made today, that go beyond "reporting MRI results".
You definitely should not use science progress/thinking as a way to illustrate how the 50s was better.
Give a single piece of work that was remotely as groundbreaking as the Hodgkin-Huxley model.
For that matter...give a single theoretical piece of work in neuroscience from the last two decades. You'll either get some verbal handwaving or a neural net that's so specific that it can't possibly be fundamental in the field.
As I said, I've studied this and plenty of scientists and historians of science would agree. To wave it off as "absurd" before you even have time to dignify it is pretty insulting.
That's cool- plenty of scientists and historians would disagree too. It is absurd to say that science in the 50s was less "theoretically inclined" than it is now based on the mere fact that Hodgkin and Huxley made important discoveries. All it indicates is that you have no understanding or appreciation for modern research
Cite some sources that argue/prove "science in the 50s was more 'theoretically inclined'" if it's not just your personal opinion
You haven't given a single example of a theoretical achievement from the last two decades that even potentially could come close to the literally dozens that I could list from the 50s. See my last post for just the tip of the ice-berg. I haven't even mentioned Chomsky's theory of universal grammar, the work of Konrad Lorenz is ethology, and many, many other things which have been followed almost religiously ever since.
That's neat. Surely you can cite several sources arguing that "science in the 50s was more 'theoretically inclined'", or was it just your personal opinion stemming from the fact that certain discoveries and advances were made in the 50s? What are you even asking me to do? To come up with a recent scientific advance that I believe is subjectively comparable to a scientific advance from the 50s? Not sure how to compare apples with oranges. How about instead you simply point me in the direction of some strong sources that argue for science being "less theoretically inclined" i.e. shittier now than it was in the 50s
On July 25 2013 00:24 marvellosity wrote: I think the sooner people realise there's no debating with GreenGringo, the sooner the thread will get mainly back on-topic ^^
I do not know why one would associate clubs with drinking but if you do so you are terribly wrong.
I think most people associate it to getting completely shit faced more than just drinking
The point of "completely shit faced", from what I can draw from the times I heard it used, refers to the point in between "I am not able to talk coherently right now" and laying on the side walk with vomit near your head. Which is the exact point when, imho, most of the points I made become valid.
Going to have to check out Aragon Ballroom in chicago, they're gonna have a massive fall. Flux pavillion, kendrick lamar, empire of the sun, ATB, Krewella all in the next couple months and Zedd for new years eve.
...because you can do more than black out and delete money while slobbering over women at clubs
On July 24 2013 10:04 GreenGringo wrote: Contrary to popular belief, it's not just because it's harder to make progress now that there were more breakthroughs in the 50s. They were far more theoretically inclined. As one example, the Hodgkin–Huxley model mathematical theory of neurons from the 50s makes today's climate of merely quoting the results of MRI scans look pretty childish. I could go on.
hate to take the off topic bait, but really, it is pretty absurd to suggest that current science progress is less "theoretically inclined" (whatever that means) vs. science progress in the 50s. Hodgkin, Huxley, Cajal, etc., definitely did cool and really important things for neuroscience -- but they weren't the last ones. Since the days of those guys neuroscience research has expanded so much that it now actually produces more papers annually than biochem, molecular bio, or cell bio. There are still incredible findings being made today, that go beyond "reporting MRI results".
You definitely should not use science progress/thinking as a way to illustrate how the 50s was better.
Give a single piece of work that was remotely as groundbreaking as the Hodgkin-Huxley model.
For that matter...give a single theoretical piece of work in neuroscience from the last two decades. You'll either get some verbal handwaving or a neural net that's so specific that it can't possibly be fundamental in the field.
As I said, I've studied this and plenty of scientists and historians of science would agree. To wave it off as "absurd" before you even have time to dignify it is pretty insulting.
That's cool- plenty of scientists and historians would disagree too. It is absurd to say that science in the 50s was less "theoretically inclined" than it is now based on the mere fact that Hodgkin and Huxley made important discoveries. All it indicates is that you have no understanding or appreciation for modern research
Cite some sources that argue/prove "science in the 50s was more 'theoretically inclined'" if it's not just your personal opinion
You haven't given a single example of a theoretical achievement from the last two decades that even potentially could come close to the literally dozens that I could list from the 50s. See my last post for just the tip of the ice-berg. I haven't even mentioned Chomsky's theory of universal grammar, the work of Konrad Lorenz is ethology, and many, many other things which have been followed almost religiously ever since.
That's neat. Surely you can cite several sources arguing that "science in the 50s was more 'theoretically inclined'", or was it just your personal opinion stemming from the fact that certain discoveries and advances were made in the 50s? What are you even asking me to do? To come up with a recent scientific advance that I believe is subjectively comparable to a scientific advance from the 50s? Not sure how to compare apples with oranges. How about instead you simply point me in the direction of some strong sources that argue for science being "less theoretically inclined" i.e. shittier now than it was in the 50s
On July 25 2013 00:24 marvellosity wrote: I think the sooner people realise there's no debating with GreenGringo, the sooner the thread will get mainly back on-topic ^^
So basically all you have to add to this conversation is "apples and oranges". Cute, but something I already considered and it's an utterly moronic point to make. By that logic you can't compare Saudi Arabia's scientific output with that of the United States. Because that would be a value judgement. Anybody who doesn't have an agenda to push on this subject can clearly see that a disparity can become so glaring that it's impossible to resist a value judgement. That's the disparity I was trying to highlight by pointing to groundbreaking achievements in fundamental science compared with faltering Western leadership and a couple of decades so stagnant in pure science that you can't even point to a single promising development. (Not an if, a could or a maybe, but a promising development. And no, it doesn't take decades for them to bear fruit, or at least it didn't in the 50s.)
None of this was ever needed to establish my original point, which was merely that "Their achievements were awesome -- show them some fucking respect." But do continue with your ignorant and obviously false agenda that the 50s were behind us in every variable.
I think the OP is generalizing too much. Clubbing is a very specific type of socializing and you really need to be into that kind of socializing; it isn't the socializing in general that turns people off of clubbing. Here are a few common arguments put forth by people that I know that don't like clubbing.
1) The music is so loud you can't hear anything.
2) The music sucks, or is so loud that you can't enjoy it. Other types of music are better.
3) You can't socialize because of the loud music.
4) The socializing you will do at a club tends to be incredibly shallow and kind of sad; people tend to just go to clubs to get drunk and get laid or do stupid shit. You can find much more meaningful socializing with more enjoyable people (as a general rule) at a number of other places and evening activities.
5) The dancing at a club sucks. It's nonsensical crap and you can find infinitely better dancing at other places.
6) Clubs are incredibly overpriced.
I think all of these points have some truth to them, although I don't entirely agree with them; I think that the music/dancing/socializing at a club can be perfectly fine, but I do think it's true that you have a better chance of getting all of this at low quality if you go to a club. Like I said, clubbing is a very specific type of socializing, and it's pretty ridiculous to say that people that don't like clubbing are generally "anti-social" or "don't like music/dancing". If you really like music/dancing/socializing/alcohol, there are definitely better places to go to than a club for any one or two of these things. The only thing that clubs really have going for them is the "hip" culture around them and the fact that they combine all of these things.
On July 24 2013 10:04 GreenGringo wrote: Contrary to popular belief, it's not just because it's harder to make progress now that there were more breakthroughs in the 50s. They were far more theoretically inclined. As one example, the Hodgkin–Huxley model mathematical theory of neurons from the 50s makes today's climate of merely quoting the results of MRI scans look pretty childish. I could go on.
hate to take the off topic bait, but really, it is pretty absurd to suggest that current science progress is less "theoretically inclined" (whatever that means) vs. science progress in the 50s. Hodgkin, Huxley, Cajal, etc., definitely did cool and really important things for neuroscience -- but they weren't the last ones. Since the days of those guys neuroscience research has expanded so much that it now actually produces more papers annually than biochem, molecular bio, or cell bio. There are still incredible findings being made today, that go beyond "reporting MRI results".
You definitely should not use science progress/thinking as a way to illustrate how the 50s was better.
Give a single piece of work that was remotely as groundbreaking as the Hodgkin-Huxley model.
For that matter...give a single theoretical piece of work in neuroscience from the last two decades. You'll either get some verbal handwaving or a neural net that's so specific that it can't possibly be fundamental in the field.
As I said, I've studied this and plenty of scientists and historians of science would agree. To wave it off as "absurd" before you even have time to dignify it is pretty insulting.
That's cool- plenty of scientists and historians would disagree too. It is absurd to say that science in the 50s was less "theoretically inclined" than it is now based on the mere fact that Hodgkin and Huxley made important discoveries. All it indicates is that you have no understanding or appreciation for modern research
Cite some sources that argue/prove "science in the 50s was more 'theoretically inclined'" if it's not just your personal opinion
You haven't given a single example of a theoretical achievement from the last two decades that even potentially could come close to the literally dozens that I could list from the 50s. See my last post for just the tip of the ice-berg. I haven't even mentioned Chomsky's theory of universal grammar, the work of Konrad Lorenz is ethology, and many, many other things which have been followed almost religiously ever since.
That's neat. Surely you can cite several sources arguing that "science in the 50s was more 'theoretically inclined'", or was it just your personal opinion stemming from the fact that certain discoveries and advances were made in the 50s? What are you even asking me to do? To come up with a recent scientific advance that I believe is subjectively comparable to a scientific advance from the 50s? Not sure how to compare apples with oranges. How about instead you simply point me in the direction of some strong sources that argue for science being "less theoretically inclined" i.e. shittier now than it was in the 50s
On July 25 2013 00:24 marvellosity wrote: I think the sooner people realise there's no debating with GreenGringo, the sooner the thread will get mainly back on-topic ^^
So basically all you have to add to this conversation is "apples and oranges". Cute, but something I already considered and it's an utterly moronic point to make. By that logic you can't compare Saudi Arabia's scientific output with that of the United States. Because that would be a value judgement. Anybody who doesn't have an agenda to push on this subject can clearly see that a disparity can become so glaring that it's impossible to resist a value judgement. That's the disparity I was trying to highlight by pointing to groundbreaking achievements in fundamental science compared with faltering Western leadership and a couple of decades so stagnant in pure science that you can't even point to a single promising development. (Not an if, a could or a maybe, but a promising development. And no, it doesn't take decades for them to bear fruit, or at least it didn't in the 50s.)
None of this was ever needed to establish my original point, which was merely that "Their achievements were awesome -- show them some fucking respect." But do continue with your ignorant and obviously false agenda that the 50s were behind us in every variable.
You may want to brush up on current research, especially neuroscience, if you think it's stagnated "in the West" over recent decades. The fact that the progress today is far more specialized in scope and that there aren't more foundational breakthroughs (e.g. the general action potential mechanism of neuronal signaling) does not indicate it's "less theoretically inclined". It indicates that progress is far enough along that a layperson like you has no capacity to understand or appreciate it for being every bit as scientifically sound and rigorous as work done in the 50s. Brainbow? Cre-lox recombination? Gene gun? Transgenesis? Discovery of neurogenesis @ human adult brain? Vastly improved understanding of peripheral vs. central nervous system regenerative capacity? Neuro-motor prosthesis dependent on brain computer interface? These sorts of advances we see today are just as important as broader advances in the 50s. Today there isn't as much need to fill in gaps of broad understanding vs. the 50s. The more we know on a broad scale (i.e. what we know stemming from early ground work such as the things you list), the more we understand the need to delve further into the details (i.e. much of the work being done today). You mention that DNA's structure was solved in the 50s -- great, that's an example of early foundational work in genetics. Now today we're doing things with DNA that far surpass that groundwork and vastly expand the boundaries of our genetics understanding. That groundwork is no less or more impressive than current work stemming from it.
Your argument is that "science in the 50s was more theoretically inclined than science today". All that sounds like is a weak thesis statement for a paper from some history of science college course. As I said before, if you know of any authoritative source that argues your point, feel free to post it. As it stands you're just blabbing on about foundational scientific advances being better/more "theoretically inclined" than the more specialized research dominating today's fields. In fact you even had the audacity to say that current neuroscience work is nothing more than "looking at MRI images and reporting them" -- wrong!
On July 24 2013 10:04 GreenGringo wrote: Contrary to popular belief, it's not just because it's harder to make progress now that there were more breakthroughs in the 50s. They were far more theoretically inclined. As one example, the Hodgkin–Huxley model mathematical theory of neurons from the 50s makes today's climate of merely quoting the results of MRI scans look pretty childish. I could go on.
hate to take the off topic bait, but really, it is pretty absurd to suggest that current science progress is less "theoretically inclined" (whatever that means) vs. science progress in the 50s. Hodgkin, Huxley, Cajal, etc., definitely did cool and really important things for neuroscience -- but they weren't the last ones. Since the days of those guys neuroscience research has expanded so much that it now actually produces more papers annually than biochem, molecular bio, or cell bio. There are still incredible findings being made today, that go beyond "reporting MRI results".
You definitely should not use science progress/thinking as a way to illustrate how the 50s was better.
Give a single piece of work that was remotely as groundbreaking as the Hodgkin-Huxley model.
For that matter...give a single theoretical piece of work in neuroscience from the last two decades. You'll either get some verbal handwaving or a neural net that's so specific that it can't possibly be fundamental in the field.
As I said, I've studied this and plenty of scientists and historians of science would agree. To wave it off as "absurd" before you even have time to dignify it is pretty insulting.
To be fair, the "groundbreaking" aspect just means that pre 1950 science was so crappy that you still could do these huge breakthroughs. It doesn't mean things haven't progressed.
I must agree. This discussion is getting out of hand. What is even the point? Just because building a computer was relatively harder back then doesn't mean todays computers are worse or that computer science (datalogy, programming, algorithm theory) is a stagnating field.
There aren't really any good clubs in my area (southern Connecticut), and on any given weekend there's enough going on that I've never been bored enough to give them another shot. Typical things i end up doing on the weekend: house parties, jazz shows, live local music, camping in the woods, poker nights, casinos, hanging at a pub, trivia nights, board game parties with friends, or just staying in.
I resent the idea that people not interested in clubbing don't like music or alcohol or fashion or whatever, or are "missing out" (To be fair, part of the reason for my avoidance is that i suck at dancing and don't want to embarrass myself). People find value in all sorts of different experience; some like clubbing, some don't, and the reasons why aren't particularly interesting to me at least because there are a million different things to do in the world and clubbing is only 1 of them.
On July 24 2013 22:17 Shiori wrote: I'm not really studied in neuroscience, and my argument was never to paint every aspect of the 1950's as being amazing (just their values being rather mediocre in terms of grounding) but I'm pretty sure if you look at astrophysics, computing, cosmology, and genetics, we've made massive strides since the 1950's.
Astrophysics: Stellar nucleosynthesis finally understood with seminal work from Hoyle in 1954.
Computing: First electronic computers built. Foundations of computer programming developed as well as various other associated technology even down to fibre optic cables.
Genetics: Double-helix model of DNA and basic principles of genetics.
Cosmology: Field didn't really take off until after Einstein's death, but Golden Age of general relativity began in late 50s with Finkelstein discovering that black holes have event horizons.
I challenge you to name any theoretical breakthroughs in these fields from the last two decades that comes close to these achievements. (And please...don't say "the Human Genome Project".)
I'm not really sure what your point is, to be honest. Yes, there were important discoveries in the 1950's...and the 60's/70's/80's/90's/00's, as well as pre-1950's (QM, Relativity, etc.) First off: I'm going to name a mix of theoretical and practical breakthroughs, since that's what you did (building electronic computers etc.). Since our technology is very sophisticated these days, it's usually possible to adapt theoretical discoveries to practical ones much more quickly than we could in the past.
(Astro)physics: understanding galaxy formation, that the universe is accelerating, in depth studying of cosmic background radiation to make progress in understanding the shape of spacetime, discovery of extra-solar planets, experimental evidence for the Big Bang/actually understanding what the fuck it was, bose-einstein condensate synthesis
cosmology: cosmic inflationary theory (pretty much the standard nowadays) was formulated in the early 80s and extensively supported by various experiments since then; discovery of the Higgs Boson recently is a pretty huge step forward in confirming our understand of the Standard Model; quark model was post-1950's, etc.
Genetics/Bio/Medicine: DNA sequencing, forensic DNA analysis, DNA profiling in general, using DNA to store information, daily HIV pill (increasing life expectancy dramatically and greatly reduces chance of contracting the virus) gene therapy, HRT, first successful cloning experiments, stem cells, creation of synthetic genomes, and yes, the human genome project (no idea why you think this is unimportant, although it's not as hyped as people have made it seem).
Computing: quantum computing, optical chips, the internet, Shor's algorithm, massive advances in cryptography.
Mathematics: proofs of the Poincare Conjecture & Fermat's Last Theorem (fucking massive achievement considering how long it was unsolved).
Miscellany: evidence based medical literature wasn't really the norm until the early 90's, and psychiatry/psychology were really, really nebulous before even 20 years ago. I'd actually say that psychiatry/psychology is one of the biggest achievements of the modern era. We went from really weird, fantastical things like psychoanalysis to very grounded, workable ways of treating mental disorders (we've also smoothed out the definition of that a hell of a lot).
These are just some of the many, many discoveries that have occurred since the 1950's. But don't get me wrong: there was some gigantic discoveries in the 50's. The point here is that there wasn't some systematic decreasing in scientific creativity like you're asserting, but rather than after a revolution, you have to fill in the details. What's next? Are we going to say Riemann's and Lebesgue's integrals didn't matter much because Lebiniz and Newton were the ones who invented calculus?
You're making a really huge error in only considering sweeping theories as legitimate theoretical breakthroughs. Aside from the fact that few of the most important physics-related revolutions occurred in the 1950's (shit like relativity happened earlier, same with Planck's work and Lorentz's) this line of reasoning your using is applicable to pretty much any generation. I mean, obviously the first person to come up with a theoretical computer program (Lovelace) was pioneering something that had never even been stated properly before, but that doesn't mean that von Neumann's or Turing's contributions to computer science were less creative or unimportant.
The truth of the matter is that modern science is very much a matter of very narrow, experiment-driven work. The reason we aren't reinventing Relativity every decade isn't because we're not creative, but because Relativity appears to be correct in concept. If someone already knows the answer to a question, obviously we're not going to come up with an even more groundbreaking answer to that same question, because the first answer was already pretty much correct. In addition, science progresses so much faster in the modern era, due to increased efficiency permitted by technology, and the collaborative abilities provided by the internet/feasible travel.
I am in no way trying to say that any period in the past century was "more creative" with respect to science in any systematic way, but I'm definitely saying that, as knowledge grows, the things we discover have to be subtler and more nuanced. You've continued to assert that modern science is "stagnant," but you haven't provided a single reason for this to be the case, given that, by pretty much every metric, accessibility to scientific literature has improved, education has become more accessible, and universities are larger. So if science is really as stagnant as you say it is (and I disagree, obviously) then you have to provide a reason as to why that is.
If you seriously dispute my assertion that our knowledge of computing/astrophysics/genetics/cosmology/physics/math/medicine/whatever is not miles ahead of what it was in the 1950's, then I'm not sure what to tell you, other than that you have a very romanticized understanding of what scientific discovery looks like. You seem to think it's geniuses sitting in their studies and coming up with thought experiments from sheer creative intuition. But it's not. Most of it is trying to better understand the problem so that we can actually attempt to formulate a solution. If anything, you should be lamenting that the Scientific Revolution was over a century ago, since you seem to think that if there aren't revolutions every couple of years, things are "stagnant."
There is no scientific theoretical breakthrough you can name that isn't hugely dependent on someone from a previous era. That's the point. It's not about measuring our dicks against those of previous generations; it's about adding to our body of knowledge, training young minds to think critically, providing opportunities for growth, and making that knowledge accessible.
On July 23 2013 12:36 decafchicken wrote: I only go to the club if there's a DJ in town i actually like, which is every month or so in chicago. For some reason the shittiest clubs have the best promoters which is annoying.
If i'm just going out i'll just go to the bar because night clubs are kinda shitty for just going out and getting drunk and having fun.
Just got my tickets for this, gonna be fucking epic. Music festivals are insane: + Show Spoiler +
See, I don't like that kind of music very much, or (usually, no offense) the people who go to shows like that. I can agree with the OP because of relating your music festival to mine. If you think about it they actually look fairly similar, but I couldn't stand going to one like you posted. Probably due to the music and general atmosphere.
On July 23 2013 12:36 decafchicken wrote: I only go to the club if there's a DJ in town i actually like, which is every month or so in chicago. For some reason the shittiest clubs have the best promoters which is annoying.
If i'm just going out i'll just go to the bar because night clubs are kinda shitty for just going out and getting drunk and having fun.
Just got my tickets for this, gonna be fucking epic. Music festivals are insane: + Show Spoiler +
See, I don't like that kind of music very much, or (usually, no offense) the people who go to shows like that. I can agree with the OP because of relating your music festival to mine. If you think about it they actually look fairly similar, but I couldn't stand going to one like you posted. Probably due to the music and general atmosphere. + Show Spoiler +
Haha yeah they're actually very similar. Obviously very different taste in music, but you can still find the same 'atmosphere' if you're referring to rage your face off mosh pits where people just go fucking insane and do walls of death and what not. There's a lot of different sides to electronic music. But yeah most festivals are more peace-love-unity than let's break shit and rage.
On July 23 2013 12:32 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote: I absolutely despise clubbing, but it's the place with the highest percentage of young single women in one place so needs must.
Seconded.
If it weren't for the abundant amount of attractive, single, drunk tail available, I'm convinced most men would forgo the whole experience.
Oh, such modern, non-misogynistic values... do you perhaps attend the wildly non-puke-inducing discussions in the "dating" thread as well?
No. Just being realistic about it. Most guys I know aren't particularly fond of dancing. You go to clubs to meet single women and try and hook up most of the time.
Hence why I don't really do the whole "club" thing, but hell, going once and awhile isn't that bad I guess.
I mostly go to crappy clubs with mainstream chart music because most of the people aren't really into the music that requires you to go to decent clubs.
Pretty sad actually since I really like electronic music... Looking forward to the Nature One festival next week. But then again, festivals are a whole different story as many people pointed out already.
Most guys I know aren't particularly fond of dancing.
It may surprise you to learn that most club-going women have similar tastes. They're not oblivious to what going to a club means, hook-up wise. I don't think anyone really likes the sort of dancing that goes on when the participants don't really know how to dance .
One of the best ways to hook up with cute girls if you play the part well. I love clubs, I am actually writing an extending clubbing guide for my nyc blog.
Every friday night I go down to the club with my mates, drink, scope out the women, lose myself in the crowd of people and merge with the vibrant identity of the club. And very often, maybe a litte less than 100% of the time I go, I'll meet an exceptionally beautiful young lady and we'll passionately kiss, exchange numbers, and usually end up together the next morning. Actually NO. NOOOOO. Ive only gone to the club a few times. Twice it was because I was dragged by a gf. And I drank excessively to get over my fear of everyone and everything inside those horrid hell holes.
On July 25 2013 12:24 JeanLuc wrote: Every friday night I go down to the club with my mates, drink, scope out the women, lose myself in the crowd of people and merge with the vibrant identity of the club. And very often, maybe a litte less than 100% of the time I go, I'll meet an exceptionally beautiful young lady and we'll passionately kiss, exchange numbers, and usually end up together the next morning. Actually NO. NOOOOO. Ive only gone to the club a few times. Twice it was because I was dragged by a gf. And I drank excessively to get over my fear of everyone and everything inside those horrid hell holes.
I think your right in that theres a correlation between between not going clubbing and being outgoing and such, to growing up shy or whatever and not enjoying it as much.
I Have never been shy, nor did i hang around in a group of people that didn't really like to go out, and have fun. (nurture, like having 5 friends who look forward to just playing dota 2 at night and not really wanting to do anything else other than that, something of that nature) but i don't really like clubbing, im quite sociable and i do train for marathons (although i guess this really isn't that great? if you wanna get women/look great and confident, you definitely dont start running 10-15km's... you will mostly start benching etc.)
I've been to clubs several times and honestly I did enjoy it, more so because of the company i was with rather than the amounts of people/sometimes smelly/random obnoxious drunks, and i do enjoy dancing. But if I were to plan something for a night out, i probably wouldnt choose clubbing... Come to think of it im not sure what id do, only things i do at night is dates/cinemas, after about 10pm im usually home, whatever day of the week it may be.
So really, don't hate clubbing, dont like it, its definitely enjoyable and I do think people should atleast try to go clubbing with some friends and experience it, its a different nature there, such as some social rules being ignored, you cant really grind up next to a girl while your walking to work xD or simply talk to a girl while at uni (i guess you could, might be easier at a club? i dunno...) of course, its not only for meeting chicks, just go and dont enter with a "this is going to be fucking shit/boring mindset" and youll have a blast!
I go out from time to time. I enjoy it a lot - it's a good way to let yourself go, laugh, dance. A requirement is to be at least a bit tipsy though, because going to a club sober sucks. The girls are nice - Even though I've been with my girlfriend for 3.5 years now, a bit of flirting is nice. I never cross the line though.
The clubs in Rotterdam are alright. If I had to choose between going to a bar and a club I would probably pick the bar though, because talking to people in clubs just sucks and is really annoying. So a good night for me consist of either first going to a bar, or some kind of house party with friends, then going to a club afterwards.
Anyways, on the topic of night clubs. Ya I hate it. Went to a few with buddies couples years back. Every single time its always some cute girl Im trying to talk to, but music is too damn loud. I honestly have really bad hearing, so in the end I was just forced to act like I knew what they were talking about and just nod my head. It was really awkward and I hated every minute of it.
I have been to a few clubs, each time without the mindset of meeting some girl. Instead I just go to have fun, dance, drink, and see where the night ends up. First time I went, I ended up leaving after dancing for 5 hours, and on the cab ride back I was singing christmas carols with the taxi driver. super fun!
On August 13 2013 04:40 SpaceFighting wrote: or simply talk to a girl while at uni (i guess you could, might be easier at a club? i dunno...) of course, its not only for meeting chicks, just go and dont enter with a "this is going to be fucking shit/boring mindset" and youll have a blast!
I didn't know you could walk into a club and have a normal conversation with a girl when theres unintelligible music blasting ear drums at 10000 decibels
On August 13 2013 04:40 SpaceFighting wrote: or simply talk to a girl while at uni (i guess you could, might be easier at a club? i dunno...) of course, its not only for meeting chicks, just go and dont enter with a "this is going to be fucking shit/boring mindset" and youll have a blast!
I didn't know you could walk into a club and have a normal conversation with a girl when theres unintelligible music blasting ear drums at 10000 decibels
The smoking area is where the good conversations happen in clubs. I don't smoke so I hate that that's the only place to get "fresh" air and talk but it's better than in a dark room with loud music.
I don't know how it's usually done in other countries, but here it is custom that you meet up at some friends place, drink a bit and go to town later in the evening ( about12:00-01:00). I have to say the best part of going out for me is always the meetup with friends before actually going to the clubs. On the flipside the way home is also usually really fun, so skipping out on clubs would mean missing a lot of funny stories as well.
On August 13 2013 08:02 Wuiph wrote: I don't know how it's usually done in other countries, but here it is custom that you meet up at some friends place, drink a bit and go to town later in the evening ( about12:00-01:00). I have to say the best part of going out for me is always the meetup with friends before actually going to the clubs. On the flipside the way home is also usually really fun, so skipping out on clubs would mean missing a lot of funny stories as well.
The meetup is the fun part where you drink, socialize, listen to music you actually like, with people you actually like. Then you go to a club in town, and the rest of the night turns to shit. Happens 100% of the time.
People always split up because they're meeting up with someone else or doesn't like club A or B. Once you've gotten throughout harassed by the guards so they'll allow you to pay half your wallet to enter, you're faced with incredible boredom as you try to figure out what the fuck you do now? First you pay the other half of your wallet for a shitty drink. Then you try to chat up a girl. Maybe you're lucky enough to find someone who wont ignore you at first sight because you're probably the 10th person to hit on her that night alone. Then you sit there and nod like the most uninteresting and boring person in the world because you can't actually fathom a word she's saying, seeing as the music is usually too loud to hear your own voice let alone anyone else. Once you both realize you can't actually communicate with each other, you give up and attempt something else. Maybe attempt dancing? If you're sufficiently drunk, you might be able to get around the terrible music and your own shyness. If you're not, you take two steps onto the dance floor before realizing "holy shit this is stupid", before walking away.
By this time, one of your buddies have gotten into a fight. Or maybe he just slipped on the floor and onto broken glass. Because the floor will usually be covered with the shit (at one club I go to, they had to stop giving people glasses because they would just toss them on the floor on purpose when done drinking. Thats the kind of amazing people you'll meet out on town). So you have to call an ambulance for your friend, and realize the night is over. Now starts the journey home. If you're not a student like me, you might do the sensible thing and let the cabdrivers rip you off for a ride home. If you are kinda on the poor side, you either walk all the way, no matter how many hours it takes, or you starts calling everyone you know in hopes of getting someone to pick you up. Finally you manage to sufficiently piss of one of your relatives or friends enough to come get you in the middle of the night. Only for you to come home and realize you're way too intoxicated to be able to sleep. So you sit around for another hour or two playing some kind of mundane game because you're incapable of focusing, before finally getting around to bed so you can feel shitty when you wake up, or indeed the entire next day.
tl;dr: You pay a fortune so you can waste an entire evening being bored, listening to shit music, not socializing with people, piss off everyone you know, and being sick the entire next day. Congrats! We're officially idiots.
On August 13 2013 08:02 Wuiph wrote: I don't know how it's usually done in other countries, but here it is custom that you meet up at some friends place, drink a bit and go to town later in the evening ( about12:00-01:00). I have to say the best part of going out for me is always the meetup with friends before actually going to the clubs. On the flipside the way home is also usually really fun, so skipping out on clubs would mean missing a lot of funny stories as well.
The meetup is the fun part where you drink, socialize, listen to music you actually like, with people you actually like. Then you go to a club in town, and the rest of the night turns to shit. Happens 100% of the time.
I broke the matrix then, maaan! For me I've actually never had a night "turn to shit" upon getting to the club. I don't go to hole in the wall or ghetto 'clubs' though so maybe that could explain why i've failed to have anything remotely close to as a shitty of a night you described. I also go to clubs to see DJs I like (re: music I actually like) with people I like rather than go to clubs with music I hate filled with people I hate. Maybe that's part of the reason 100% of your nights out at a club have been completely shitty -- you go to places that feature too much of the shit you described! Fights can happen anywhere there is alcohol and testosterone, and drinks are gonna be broken on occasion, but not to such an insanely high level at decent places with good staff. If someone drops a glass, their ass is being thrown out for being too drunk, whether or not it was because they were too drunk. Same goes for fighting -- out! If you're at a place where there are too few staff or too few fucks given by the staff, then yeah, it's going to be sloppy, dirty, and violent. Try a better place.
As far as not being able to walk up to randos and have meaningful conversations with them... Go in with a group of friends that all want to be there. Split a table. Then if you're still keen to go grind on some random girl, don't worry about the talking, just eye fuck get the attention and take it from there. If you hate dancing in general, which may be the case for you, then yeah, of course this sort of approach where you just dance with people and forget about the talking part probably won't work.
It's not so black and white so to say you either like or don't like it. I haven't enjoyed clubbing the few times I've gone in the USUS, but when I did study abroad for a semester in the UK I went twice a week or so because an awesome group of international students went out all the time. Even though I am horribad at dancing I still had a fun time.
People who enjoy clubbing: People I automatically dismiss as trash with whom I will never be interested in interacting. Yeah, maybe I'm a bad person but the type of person who goes to a club, gets drunk, and grinds on some random girl is not the type of person I think highly of.
I guess if you just go for the music because the DJ is cool, then maybe it's okay. Or if you just go with a few friends and have a few drinks and keep to yourselves, I guess that's alright, but you can do that anywhere.
I hate clubbing quite a lot, but I only went clubbing like twice ever.
However, I'm interested in meeting women and it can't be all that bad granted so many people enjoy it.
So I ask those people that are in similar sheos and have tried it out, is clubbing one of those things that you learn to enjoy, or does it have to come naturally?
On August 13 2013 10:41 MichaelDonovan wrote: People who enjoy clubbing: People I automatically dismiss as trash with whom I will never be interested in interacting. Yeah, maybe I'm a bad person but the type of person who goes to a club, gets drunk, and grinds on some random girl is not the type of person I think highly of.
I guess if you just go for the music because the DJ is cool, then maybe it's okay. Or if you just go with a few friends and have a few drinks and keep to yourselves, I guess that's alright, but you can do that anywhere.
hate of the blank... a run-of-the-mill defense move..
I only drink on special occasions and I hate smoke. I spend my money on my fishing tackle. Much more fun for me anyways. So much drama at clubs as well. There are people there that do not enjoy themselves by dancing. They are usually looking to start a fight. That's what I have seen in my town anyways.
On August 13 2013 10:41 MichaelDonovan wrote: People who enjoy clubbing: People I automatically dismiss as trash with whom I will never be interested in interacting
Could you be any more closeminded/judgemental? Enjoying clubbing doesn't disqualify a person from being intelligent/nice/interesting.
On August 13 2013 10:41 MichaelDonovan wrote: People who enjoy clubbing: People I automatically dismiss as trash with whom I will never be interested in interacting
Could you be any more closeminded/judgemental? Enjoying clubbing doesn't disqualify a person from being intelligent/nice/interesting.
Sometimes I feel the opposite is true. People that go and enjoy clubbing probably don't think I'm very interesting or fun to be around.
On August 13 2013 08:02 Wuiph wrote: I don't know how it's usually done in other countries, but here it is custom that you meet up at some friends place, drink a bit and go to town later in the evening ( about12:00-01:00). I have to say the best part of going out for me is always the meetup with friends before actually going to the clubs. On the flipside the way home is also usually really fun, so skipping out on clubs would mean missing a lot of funny stories as well.
The meetup is the fun part where you drink, socialize, listen to music you actually like, with people you actually like. Then you go to a club in town, and the rest of the night turns to shit. Happens 100% of the time.
People always split up because they're meeting up with someone else or doesn't like club A or B. Once you've gotten throughout harassed by the guards so they'll allow you to pay half your wallet to enter, you're faced with incredible boredom as you try to figure out what the fuck you do now? First you pay the other half of your wallet for a shitty drink. Then you try to chat up a girl. Maybe you're lucky enough to find someone who wont ignore you at first sight because you're probably the 10th person to hit on her that night alone. Then you sit there and nod like the most uninteresting and boring person in the world because you can't actually fathom a word she's saying, seeing as the music is usually too loud to hear your own voice let alone anyone else. Once you both realize you can't actually communicate with each other, you give up and attempt something else. Maybe attempt dancing? If you're sufficiently drunk, you might be able to get around the terrible music and your own shyness. If you're not, you take two steps onto the dance floor before realizing "holy shit this is stupid", before walking away.
By this time, one of your buddies have gotten into a fight. Or maybe he just slipped on the floor and onto broken glass. Because the floor will usually be covered with the shit (at one club I go to, they had to stop giving people glasses because they would just toss them on the floor on purpose when done drinking. Thats the kind of amazing people you'll meet out on town). So you have to call an ambulance for your friend, and realize the night is over. Now starts the journey home. If you're not a student like me, you might do the sensible thing and let the cabdrivers rip you off for a ride home. If you are kinda on the poor side, you either walk all the way, no matter how many hours it takes, or you starts calling everyone you know in hopes of getting someone to pick you up. Finally you manage to sufficiently piss of one of your relatives or friends enough to come get you in the middle of the night. Only for you to come home and realize you're way too intoxicated to be able to sleep. So you sit around for another hour or two playing some kind of mundane game because you're incapable of focusing, before finally getting around to bed so you can feel shitty when you wake up, or indeed the entire next day.
tl;dr: You pay a fortune so you can waste an entire evening being bored, listening to shit music, not socializing with people, piss off everyone you know, and being sick the entire next day. Congrats! We're officially idiots.
Sounds like you hate your friends and get together with them to places you know you hate. I usually meet up with a couple friends, hang out/get drunk, head to the club, have a couple beers to keep the buzz going and have a good time listening to the dj(usually the reason for said club excursion) with friends. If you want to meet a chick just go on the dance floor and dance with one, you're obviously not going to a club to have an insightful conversation there so just go have fun dancing with them if that's your thing. If your friends are constantly getting into fights and ending up at the hospital then you're probably going out with the wrong people to the wrong places. If you just want to have some drinks and conversation than go to the bar or a house party. I feel like everyone here hating on clubs for not being able to talk, loud music, and expensive drinks is like complaining about not being able to enjoy a book at a movie theater.
On August 13 2013 10:41 MichaelDonovan wrote: People who enjoy clubbing: People I automatically dismiss as trash with whom I will never be interested in interacting
Could you be any more closeminded/judgemental? Enjoying clubbing doesn't disqualify a person from being intelligent/nice/interesting.
Actually it's the converse of that. If you are intelligent/nice/interesting, this disqualifies you from grinding on drunk girls in a club. I mean, it's just like those people who wear their hats sideways. If you wear your baseball cap sideways, I automatically assume you are garbage and I don't want to talk to you. These are choices that you make (however small) which say a lot about what kind of person you are.
On August 13 2013 10:41 MichaelDonovan wrote: People who enjoy clubbing: People I automatically dismiss as trash with whom I will never be interested in interacting
Could you be any more closeminded/judgemental? Enjoying clubbing doesn't disqualify a person from being intelligent/nice/interesting.
Actually it's the converse of that. I mean, it's just like those people who wear their hats sideways. If you wear your baseball cap sideways, I automatically assume you are garbage and I don't want to talk to you.
Lol. You have no clue what you're talking about. If you're basing your hate off going to ghetto fabulous clubs where dudes are allowed to wear flat brims and shit, then yeah, you might have a point. Give a real club with a real DJ a try... you might change your opinion...
On August 13 2013 10:41 MichaelDonovan wrote: People who enjoy clubbing: People I automatically dismiss as trash with whom I will never be interested in interacting
Could you be any more closeminded/judgemental? Enjoying clubbing doesn't disqualify a person from being intelligent/nice/interesting.
Actually it's the converse of that. I mean, it's just like those people who wear their hats sideways. If you wear your baseball cap sideways, I automatically assume you are garbage and I don't want to talk to you.
Lol. You have no clue what you're talking about. If you're basing your hate off going to ghetto fabulous clubs where dudes are allowed to wear flat brims and shit, then yeah, you might have a point. Give a real club with a real DJ a try... you might change your opinion...
On August 13 2013 10:41 MichaelDonovan wrote: People who enjoy clubbing: People I automatically dismiss as trash with whom I will never be interested in interacting
Could you be any more closeminded/judgemental? Enjoying clubbing doesn't disqualify a person from being intelligent/nice/interesting.
Actually it's the converse of that. I mean, it's just like those people who wear their hats sideways. If you wear your baseball cap sideways, I automatically assume you are garbage and I don't want to talk to you.
Lol. You have no clue what you're talking about. If you're basing your hate off going to ghetto fabulous clubs where dudes are allowed to wear flat brims and shit, then yeah, you might have a point. Give a real club with a real DJ a try... you might change your opinion...
Oh my bad dude. I had the wrong idea about clubs. Admittedly I've never actually been to a good club. I've been to college bars with dancefloors where sketchy guys with sideways baseball caps grind on 18 year old drunk girls. You mean that sort of place is not a club? I guess buying a table with a group of friends for a good DJ at a sick club venue isn't trashy. I shouldn't have made dumb generalizations about every person who has enjoyed being at a club! Sorry
On August 13 2013 10:41 MichaelDonovan wrote: People who enjoy clubbing: People I automatically dismiss as trash with whom I will never be interested in interacting
Could you be any more closeminded/judgemental? Enjoying clubbing doesn't disqualify a person from being intelligent/nice/interesting.
Actually it's the converse of that. I mean, it's just like those people who wear their hats sideways. If you wear your baseball cap sideways, I automatically assume you are garbage and I don't want to talk to you.
Lol. You have no clue what you're talking about. If you're basing your hate off going to ghetto fabulous clubs where dudes are allowed to wear flat brims and shit, then yeah, you might have a point. Give a real club with a real DJ a try... you might change your opinion...
Oh my bad dude. I had the wrong idea about clubs. Admittedly I've never actually been to a good club. I've been to college bars with dancefloors where sketchy guys with sideways baseball caps grind on 18 year old drunk girls. You mean that sort of place is not a club? I guess buying a table with a group of friends for a good DJ at a sick club venue isn't trashy. I shouldn't have made dumb generalizations about every person who has enjoyed being at a club! Sorry
It's cool man
Lol if you read my first post I made an exception for that kind of thing. "Clubbing" means going to pick up chicks at a club where I'm from. That's why I don't like people who "go clubbing." However, simply "going to a club" is different.
Not my kind of thing, usually when I go out I just hang with friends and we chat over dinner or something. Some of my friends who have tried it all say the experience is really overrated. Basically if you like clubbing cool do it, otherwise, there's no point.
On August 13 2013 11:03 Z-BosoN wrote: I hate clubbing quite a lot, but I only went clubbing like twice ever.
However, I'm interested in meeting women and it can't be all that bad granted so many people enjoy it.
So I ask those people that are in similar sheos and have tried it out, is clubbing one of those things that you learn to enjoy, or does it have to come naturally?
I used to loath clubbing, I cant dance, hate the music and hate pretty boys... But I will say you have to have A FEW drinks(dont get hammered cuz your just sloppy then) and as hard as it is you just have to let yourself go because no one is judging you and most people are there for a good time, ask girls to dance because if they say no just think to yourself who cares.
Shitty music blaring in my ears, drug addicts trying to look tough, drunkards throwing up every now and then, shallow and obnoxious women grinding their asses on shit, whats not to like?
Maybe I went to the wrong places when I visited the US, but It seems like thats pretty much what most of these clubs are like
Anyone who says clubbing is a negative experience needs to take a molly at a place with some decent music. You don't dance? You'll be dancing inside of 30 mins. And go with friends and just have a good time.
On August 13 2013 10:41 MichaelDonovan wrote: People who enjoy clubbing: People I automatically dismiss as trash with whom I will never be interested in interacting
Could you be any more closeminded/judgemental? Enjoying clubbing doesn't disqualify a person from being intelligent/nice/interesting.
Actually it's the converse of that. I mean, it's just like those people who wear their hats sideways. If you wear your baseball cap sideways, I automatically assume you are garbage and I don't want to talk to you.
Lol. You have no clue what you're talking about. If you're basing your hate off going to ghetto fabulous clubs where dudes are allowed to wear flat brims and shit, then yeah, you might have a point. Give a real club with a real DJ a try... you might change your opinion...
Oh my bad dude. I had the wrong idea about clubs. Admittedly I've never actually been to a good club. I've been to college bars with dancefloors where sketchy guys with sideways baseball caps grind on 18 year old drunk girls. You mean that sort of place is not a club? I guess buying a table with a group of friends for a good DJ at a sick club venue isn't trashy. I shouldn't have made dumb generalizations about every person who has enjoyed being at a club! Sorry
It's cool man
Lol if you read my first post I made an exception for that kind of thing. "Clubbing" means going to pick up chicks at a club where I'm from. That's why I don't like people who "go clubbing." However, simply "going to a club" is different.
Well it's hardly our fault you've invented your own definition of the word clubbing. You need to visit better countries/clubs. I love clubbing in Seoul, the music/atmosphere in Hongdae is great and there's almost no violence/drugs. Though, if your experiences are anything like the few times I went out in the district near the american military base I can't blame you for hating clubbing.
Clubbing with single friends who are there just to pick up chicks is rather lame, I agree. Because each of them will go their own way, only paying attention to the girls.
Instead, go with a group of friends with a different mindset - make fun with the group, with eachother, order some rounds, dance even though nobody really knows how to dance. After a few drinks your body will know what to do by itself.
On August 13 2013 08:02 Wuiph wrote: I don't know how it's usually done in other countries, but here it is custom that you meet up at some friends place, drink a bit and go to town later in the evening ( about12:00-01:00). I have to say the best part of going out for me is always the meetup with friends before actually going to the clubs. On the flipside the way home is also usually really fun, so skipping out on clubs would mean missing a lot of funny stories as well.
The meetup is the fun part where you drink, socialize, listen to music you actually like, with people you actually like. Then you go to a club in town, and the rest of the night turns to shit. Happens 100% of the time.
People always split up because they're meeting up with someone else or doesn't like club A or B. Once you've gotten throughout harassed by the guards so they'll allow you to pay half your wallet to enter, you're faced with incredible boredom as you try to figure out what the fuck you do now? First you pay the other half of your wallet for a shitty drink. Then you try to chat up a girl. Maybe you're lucky enough to find someone who wont ignore you at first sight because you're probably the 10th person to hit on her that night alone. Then you sit there and nod like the most uninteresting and boring person in the world because you can't actually fathom a word she's saying, seeing as the music is usually too loud to hear your own voice let alone anyone else. Once you both realize you can't actually communicate with each other, you give up and attempt something else. Maybe attempt dancing? If you're sufficiently drunk, you might be able to get around the terrible music and your own shyness. If you're not, you take two steps onto the dance floor before realizing "holy shit this is stupid", before walking away.
By this time, one of your buddies have gotten into a fight. Or maybe he just slipped on the floor and onto broken glass. Because the floor will usually be covered with the shit (at one club I go to, they had to stop giving people glasses because they would just toss them on the floor on purpose when done drinking. Thats the kind of amazing people you'll meet out on town). So you have to call an ambulance for your friend, and realize the night is over. Now starts the journey home. If you're not a student like me, you might do the sensible thing and let the cabdrivers rip you off for a ride home. If you are kinda on the poor side, you either walk all the way, no matter how many hours it takes, or you starts calling everyone you know in hopes of getting someone to pick you up. Finally you manage to sufficiently piss of one of your relatives or friends enough to come get you in the middle of the night. Only for you to come home and realize you're way too intoxicated to be able to sleep. So you sit around for another hour or two playing some kind of mundane game because you're incapable of focusing, before finally getting around to bed so you can feel shitty when you wake up, or indeed the entire next day.
tl;dr: You pay a fortune so you can waste an entire evening being bored, listening to shit music, not socializing with people, piss off everyone you know, and being sick the entire next day. Congrats! We're officially idiots.
Sounds like you hate your friends and get together with them to places you know you hate. I usually meet up with a couple friends, hang out/get drunk, head to the club, have a couple beers to keep the buzz going and have a good time listening to the dj(usually the reason for said club excursion) with friends. If you want to meet a chick just go on the dance floor and dance with one, you're obviously not going to a club to have an insightful conversation there so just go have fun dancing with them if that's your thing. If your friends are constantly getting into fights and ending up at the hospital then you're probably going out with the wrong people to the wrong places. If you just want to have some drinks and conversation than go to the bar or a house party. I feel like everyone here hating on clubs for not being able to talk, loud music, and expensive drinks is like complaining about not being able to enjoy a book at a movie theater.
Note to self, people do not know what a Causerie is.
I like alcohol, I like girls, I like to dance and I can put up with the predominant clubbing music genre. Unfortunately so few DJs know wtf they are doing (there's more to it than pressing play), so few bartenders know wtf they are doing (that's not how you make that drink and it still took you five times as long), there are so many people on the dancefloor that the best dance you can do is put your hands in the air like you just don't care (and that's not a dance, that's just time spent trying not to think about how stupid you must look) and when the volume is so loud that you can't even hear the shanked guy on the floor scream, meeting new people based on anything beyond looks becomes a completely lost cause. Having fun in this kind of environment requires tremendous effort (edit: or you get really drunk. This is why you drink at clubs, because otherwise it's just a complete fucking chore).
Teenagers club because they think it's cool, something you're supposed to like. Eventually though the curtain drops and they start spending time doing things they actually enjoy.
On August 13 2013 08:02 Wuiph wrote: I don't know how it's usually done in other countries, but here it is custom that you meet up at some friends place, drink a bit and go to town later in the evening ( about12:00-01:00). I have to say the best part of going out for me is always the meetup with friends before actually going to the clubs. On the flipside the way home is also usually really fun, so skipping out on clubs would mean missing a lot of funny stories as well.
The meetup is the fun part where you drink, socialize, listen to music you actually like, with people you actually like. Then you go to a club in town, and the rest of the night turns to shit. Happens 100% of the time.
People always split up because they're meeting up with someone else or doesn't like club A or B. Once you've gotten throughout harassed by the guards so they'll allow you to pay half your wallet to enter, you're faced with incredible boredom as you try to figure out what the fuck you do now? First you pay the other half of your wallet for a shitty drink. Then you try to chat up a girl. Maybe you're lucky enough to find someone who wont ignore you at first sight because you're probably the 10th person to hit on her that night alone. Then you sit there and nod like the most uninteresting and boring person in the world because you can't actually fathom a word she's saying, seeing as the music is usually too loud to hear your own voice let alone anyone else. Once you both realize you can't actually communicate with each other, you give up and attempt something else. Maybe attempt dancing? If you're sufficiently drunk, you might be able to get around the terrible music and your own shyness. If you're not, you take two steps onto the dance floor before realizing "holy shit this is stupid", before walking away.
By this time, one of your buddies have gotten into a fight. Or maybe he just slipped on the floor and onto broken glass. Because the floor will usually be covered with the shit (at one club I go to, they had to stop giving people glasses because they would just toss them on the floor on purpose when done drinking. Thats the kind of amazing people you'll meet out on town). So you have to call an ambulance for your friend, and realize the night is over. Now starts the journey home. If you're not a student like me, you might do the sensible thing and let the cabdrivers rip you off for a ride home. If you are kinda on the poor side, you either walk all the way, no matter how many hours it takes, or you starts calling everyone you know in hopes of getting someone to pick you up. Finally you manage to sufficiently piss of one of your relatives or friends enough to come get you in the middle of the night. Only for you to come home and realize you're way too intoxicated to be able to sleep. So you sit around for another hour or two playing some kind of mundane game because you're incapable of focusing, before finally getting around to bed so you can feel shitty when you wake up, or indeed the entire next day.
tl;dr: You pay a fortune so you can waste an entire evening being bored, listening to shit music, not socializing with people, piss off everyone you know, and being sick the entire next day. Congrats! We're officially idiots.
Sounds like you hate your friends and get together with them to places you know you hate. I usually meet up with a couple friends, hang out/get drunk, head to the club, have a couple beers to keep the buzz going and have a good time listening to the dj(usually the reason for said club excursion) with friends. If you want to meet a chick just go on the dance floor and dance with one, you're obviously not going to a club to have an insightful conversation there so just go have fun dancing with them if that's your thing. If your friends are constantly getting into fights and ending up at the hospital then you're probably going out with the wrong people to the wrong places. If you just want to have some drinks and conversation than go to the bar or a house party. I feel like everyone here hating on clubs for not being able to talk, loud music, and expensive drinks is like complaining about not being able to enjoy a book at a movie theater.
Note to self, people do not know what a Causerie is.
It sounded ironic until the TL;DR at which point i figured you were being serious combined with some of the opinions given so far in this thread.
On August 13 2013 08:02 Wuiph wrote: I don't know how it's usually done in other countries, but here it is custom that you meet up at some friends place, drink a bit and go to town later in the evening ( about12:00-01:00). I have to say the best part of going out for me is always the meetup with friends before actually going to the clubs. On the flipside the way home is also usually really fun, so skipping out on clubs would mean missing a lot of funny stories as well.
The meetup is the fun part where you drink, socialize, listen to music you actually like, with people you actually like. Then you go to a club in town, and the rest of the night turns to shit. Happens 100% of the time.
People always split up because they're meeting up with someone else or doesn't like club A or B. Once you've gotten throughout harassed by the guards so they'll allow you to pay half your wallet to enter, you're faced with incredible boredom as you try to figure out what the fuck you do now? First you pay the other half of your wallet for a shitty drink. Then you try to chat up a girl. Maybe you're lucky enough to find someone who wont ignore you at first sight because you're probably the 10th person to hit on her that night alone. Then you sit there and nod like the most uninteresting and boring person in the world because you can't actually fathom a word she's saying, seeing as the music is usually too loud to hear your own voice let alone anyone else. Once you both realize you can't actually communicate with each other, you give up and attempt something else. Maybe attempt dancing? If you're sufficiently drunk, you might be able to get around the terrible music and your own shyness. If you're not, you take two steps onto the dance floor before realizing "holy shit this is stupid", before walking away.
By this time, one of your buddies have gotten into a fight. Or maybe he just slipped on the floor and onto broken glass. Because the floor will usually be covered with the shit (at one club I go to, they had to stop giving people glasses because they would just toss them on the floor on purpose when done drinking. Thats the kind of amazing people you'll meet out on town). So you have to call an ambulance for your friend, and realize the night is over. Now starts the journey home. If you're not a student like me, you might do the sensible thing and let the cabdrivers rip you off for a ride home. If you are kinda on the poor side, you either walk all the way, no matter how many hours it takes, or you starts calling everyone you know in hopes of getting someone to pick you up. Finally you manage to sufficiently piss of one of your relatives or friends enough to come get you in the middle of the night. Only for you to come home and realize you're way too intoxicated to be able to sleep. So you sit around for another hour or two playing some kind of mundane game because you're incapable of focusing, before finally getting around to bed so you can feel shitty when you wake up, or indeed the entire next day.
tl;dr: You pay a fortune so you can waste an entire evening being bored, listening to shit music, not socializing with people, piss off everyone you know, and being sick the entire next day. Congrats! We're officially idiots.
Sounds like you hate your friends and get together with them to places you know you hate. I usually meet up with a couple friends, hang out/get drunk, head to the club, have a couple beers to keep the buzz going and have a good time listening to the dj(usually the reason for said club excursion) with friends. If you want to meet a chick just go on the dance floor and dance with one, you're obviously not going to a club to have an insightful conversation there so just go have fun dancing with them if that's your thing. If your friends are constantly getting into fights and ending up at the hospital then you're probably going out with the wrong people to the wrong places. If you just want to have some drinks and conversation than go to the bar or a house party. I feel like everyone here hating on clubs for not being able to talk, loud music, and expensive drinks is like complaining about not being able to enjoy a book at a movie theater.
Note to self, people do not know what a Causerie is.
wasn't a causerie lol. just some honest heartfelt feelings spilling
On August 13 2013 21:15 Osmoses wrote: I like alcohol, I like girls, I like to dance and I can put up with the predominant clubbing music genre. Unfortunately so few DJs know wtf they are doing (there's more to it than pressing play), so few bartenders know wtf they are doing (that's not how you make that drink and it still took you five times as long), there are so many people on the dancefloor that the best dance you can do is put your hands in the air like you just don't care (and that's not a dance, that's just time spent trying not to think about how stupid you must look) and when the volume is so loud that you can't even hear the shanked guy on the floor scream, meeting new people based on anything beyond looks becomes a completely lost cause. Having fun in this kind of environment requires tremendous effort (edit: or you get really drunk. This is why you drink at clubs, because otherwise it's just a complete fucking chore).
Teenagers club because they think it's cool, something you're supposed to like. Eventually though the curtain drops and they start spending time doing things they actually enjoy.
I just like to dance to the music really. I mean dance music nowadays is alright. Everything else about clubbing I hate apart from the socializing with friends part. I always wear earplugs as well because goddamnit I already have tinnitus in both my ears. The fact that everyone around me doesn't have that is incredible to me. Are they really not affected by that what the hell. What I hate most is the fact that every guy is trying to hit on every girl, jesus christ. Then they look weird at me when I'm trying to actually dance. Fuck those clubs.
EPT
Also, feel free to share house/electro/r&b music you like, and raves and other events you know are upcoming and are planning to attend
but that's not the point anyway since its all for the music 
![[image loading]](http://www.harpseals.org/images/sealing/yellowjacketsealerclubbing121k.jpg)
. I personally never drink alcohol, not because I don't like it but because it makes it really hard for me to dance at 100+ bpm.
![[image loading]](http://i1.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article392252.ece/BINARY/seal-clubbing-image-2-224556181.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.ebookers.com/travel-blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Clubbing-in-Ibiza.jpg)
