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KwarK
United States44372 Posts
On October 18 2022 06:22 Gorsameth wrote: Truss got torpedoed by her own party for doing the exact thing she said she would do if they elected her so I imagine she doesn't feel happy with them right now. She lost the MP vote. Sunak won that. Truss got in based on the Daily Mail reader vote but that doesn’t mean the MPs support her. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27463 Posts
On October 18 2022 06:22 Gorsameth wrote: Truss got torpedoed by her own party for doing the exact thing she said she would do if they elected her so I imagine she doesn't feel happy with them right now. To a degree. Truss doesn’t have a base outside of a particularly vehement tranch of middle England The smart ones recognise that Truss is too far detached from vaguely moderate public sentiments and she’s a poisoned chalice. They’ll bide their time. The stupid ones are doubling down, but hey they’re idiots so they’ll do that. She’s toast. People don’t want what she’s selling, I will concede that she’s doing exactly what she said she would do, so why this is need to the parliamentary Tory part is beyond me. | ||
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pmh
1416 Posts
It did look like Hunt has basicly taken over already. British politics is brutal. | ||
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Deleted User 173346
16169 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22658 Posts
/s Any system not holding new general elections after the PM is sacked is wrong. | ||
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Slydie
2014 Posts
On October 19 2022 23:34 Gorsameth wrote: Having to, again, fire the PM after elected the PM basically less then 2 weeks after electing them and after having the previous PM be forced to resign before that, and the previous PM before that really is a glowing recommendation to the UK's electoral system /s Any system not holding new general elections after the PM is sacked is wrong. In Norway, general elections are held every 4 years, and thats it. Governments fall from time to time, it is up to the parlament which sacked it to find a new one. IMO, the problem is really the fptp system, which creates big losely connected block parties which do not reflect the population. If there are several parties competing for right, left and centre votes, it is a lot easier to punish parties which screw up as a voter. | ||
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Simberto
Germany12026 Posts
On October 19 2022 23:34 Gorsameth wrote: Having to, again, fire the PM after elected the PM basically less then 2 weeks after electing them and after having the previous PM be forced to resign before that, and the previous PM before that really is a glowing recommendation to the UK's electoral system /s Any system not holding new general elections after the PM is sacked is wrong. I don't think your conclusion is correct. You can get into a lot of problems if you always hold general elections after a no confidence situation, namely unending elections and no real governnance ever if things are split enough. A classical example of this going wrong is the Weimar republic. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27463 Posts
On October 20 2022 00:00 Simberto wrote: I don't think your conclusion is correct. You can get into a lot of problems if you always hold general elections after a no confidence situation, namely unending elections and no real governnance ever if things are split enough. A classical example of this going wrong is the Weimar republic. I think he’s broadly correct in this particular case in that Truss comes in representing a different wing, faction and overall political sensibility from that which preceded her. On the flip side, outside of people advocating it for partisan reasons, Blair passing the PM baton to Gordon Brown when the two were a double act in establishing New Labour, not really an issue there. Or indeed the Cameron to May transition. Sure they weren’t clones of each other but they shared a lot of common political ground. I never really thought it was any kind of egregious departure from the electoral mandate. Of course these distinctions are somewhat arbitrary and open to interpretation, and I agree having a General Election every time someone sneezes is a recipe for instability. We’ve gone from a one-nation, pro-European Prime Minister to Johnson’s mixing of populism, ‘Brexit means Brexit’ with the occasional ode to ‘levelling up’ (sometimes meaningfully), to another hard Brexiter, only this one is a libertarian zealot economically. Without a single popular election to boot. It’s not the changing of the faces, it’s the very politically divergent directions that have been taken each juncture that’s the issue I have | ||
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Simberto
Germany12026 Posts
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Slydie
2014 Posts
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pmh
1416 Posts
https://news.sky.com/story/majority-of-tory-party-members-want-truss-to-resign-now-and-want-boris-johnson-to-replace-her-12723609 a majority (63%) think former PM Boris Johnson would be a good replacement, with 32% putting him as their top candidate, followed by Mr Sunak at 23%. They also would support Mr Sunak as a replacement, with 60% thinking that would be a good idea, while 47% think new Chancellor Jeremy Hunt would be a good replacement. Hunt is the only good option i think,but he doesnt seem particulary popular amongst the higher ups of the party seeing him coming 3rd in the previous leadership election. Not sure what they think is wrong with him,he does seem the by far most capable person for a crisis situation. Johnson wouldnt be that bad of choice for the torrys,if all they care about is the next election. Boris is funny and has charm. And with everything else beeing in disarray that kinda is the only thing the conservatives can try to leverage. Edit:Just read that the minster of interior did resign. With Tuss cancelling a work visit and staying in London,suposedly to safe her premiership. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27463 Posts
On October 20 2022 00:31 Simberto wrote: In that case i agree with Slydie, FPTP being generally shit is to blame for that. A lot of positions inside the tories should really be different parties entirely, but FPTP prevents that from happening and thus leads to this situation. The British have a collective allergy over the adoption of something clearly better in so many ways (although not without some flaws) Granted it wasn’t strictly 100% PR but, on a low turnout changing the voting system to the alternative vote got absolutely crushed. @pmh Boris? Fuck me, really? With a bit of a gap I could see his particular charm having some positive effects, but this close to him being removed from office? The Tory membership seem remarkably forgiving, plus politically insane at the same time. Keir Starmer almost has to do nothing whatsoever and the gig is Labour’s provided Tory members keep pushing the worst candidates they possibly could forward | ||
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
If Conservative MPs want Jeremy Hunt as PM that is fine but the proper processes should take place to allow that to happen. Having the PM as a hostage is not compatible with good governance and very anti-democratic, not even our MPs voted for Hunt to be running everything, needs to be a proper prime minster quickly. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
Deputy Chief whip too | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
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KwarK
United States44372 Posts
On October 20 2022 02:31 Zaros wrote: This government is a joke and needs to collapse (just Truss not necessarily the conservative party.) She was chosen by MPs and Members on an agenda that has been completely abandoned and appointing people who wanted to get rid of her only a few days a go. If Conservative MPs want Jeremy Hunt as PM that is fine but the proper processes should take place to allow that to happen. Having the PM as a hostage is not compatible with good governance and very anti-democratic, not even our MPs voted for Hunt to be running everything, needs to be a proper prime minster quickly. MPs chose Sunak and Sunak was repeatedly on record saying Truss’s policies would do exactly this. | ||
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
On October 20 2022 06:34 KwarK wrote: MPs chose Sunak and Sunak was repeatedly on record saying Truss’s policies would do exactly this. MPs put Truss in the final two, they are equally to blame. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom10006 Posts
If the tories can get through all of this without having to call an election they'll have done well. | ||
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