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United States42283 Posts
On July 07 2022 17:19 Silvanel wrote:
Didn't he win a vote of confidence like a month ago? What is going on right now? Is this a next part of an attampt to oust him?
Winning a vote of no confidence is only narrowly better than losing it. The fact it happened in the first place means you’re already teetering over the cliff.
He’s always been unpopular in his own party due to a 30 year history of lies, impropriety and scandal. Nobody else wanted responsibility for Brexit or COVID but with those done there really isn’t much reason for them to keep him around. He took the job out of ego while smarter men waited for a better time. It appears the consensus is that the better time is now.
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The party mostly wanted him for his popularity with the voters i think,pretty much similar to Trump in the US. He was a man that could win elections.
Objectively this latest scandal is not that big that it should have led to him leaving in my opinion. But the party clearly wants him gone for whatever reason and they saw an opportunity. Apearently it is going to happen today already. The new PM is not in a desireable spot either,major challenges lie ahead.
Somewhere its kinda sad and i do feel a bit bad for him,he was very entertaining and funny. He also isnt really worse then 90% of the politicians. Its probably still worth it for the torys to keep him around somehow,similar to how its still worth it for the republicans to keep Trump around. They still apeal to a certain demographic.
@below:yes he wont be able to win an election again that is also a consideration (again similar to trump). He still apeals to a certain demographic though. The new pm i think will also lose the next election so i dont think the new pm will be in a better spot. The challenges ahead are to big.
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On July 07 2022 18:59 pmh wrote:
The party mostly wanted him for his popularity with the voters i think,pretty much similar to Trump in the US. He was a man that could win elections.
Objectively this latest scandal is not that big that it should have led to him leaving in my opinion. But the party clearly wants him gone for whatever reason and they saw an opportunity. Apearently it is going to happen today already. The new PM is not in a desireable spot either,major challenges lie ahead.
Somewhere its kinda sad and i do feel a bit bad for him,he was very entertaining and funny. He also isnt really worse then 90% of the politicians. Its probably still worth it for the torys to keep him around somehow,similar to how its still worth it for the republicans to keep Trump around. They still apeal to a certain demographic.
Boris wouldn't have been elected again.
Too many scandals.
The tories know this, and half way through a term is the absolute best time to change leaders, as it gives the new leader enough time to show they can get stuff done, but not too much that voters get bored of them.
Its simple election game playing.
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"When the Herd moves, it moves."
I don't know why this quote makes me laugh but it does. I mean did he write that himself, is there an insult in there somewhere?
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Northern Ireland24512 Posts
Well Johnson’s gone, albeit not until his replacement is elected.
Wonder what comes next…
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On July 07 2022 17:24 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2022 17:19 Silvanel wrote:
Didn't he win a vote of confidence like a month ago? What is going on right now? Is this a next part of an attampt to oust him? Winning a vote of no confidence is only narrowly better than losing it. The fact it happened in the first place means you’re already teetering over the cliff. He’s always been unpopular in his own party due to a 30 year history of lies, impropriety and scandal. Nobody else wanted responsibility for Brexit or COVID but with those done there really isn’t much reason for them to keep him around. He took the job out of ego while smarter men waited for a better time. It appears the consensus is that the better time is now.
If you don't cruise to a crushing victory in a vote of no confidence, the writing is on the wall.
Essentially, you have nearly half the party room declare that they want you out, which means there's plenty more who are already thinking about it.
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On July 07 2022 21:39 WombaT wrote:
Well Johnson’s gone, albeit not until his replacement is elected.
Wonder what comes next…
More horror and suffering until Starmer 'wins' and has to form a coalition with the greens and lib dems, then after that colossal disappointment.
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To answer 'why now?'
The summer recess starts in a couple of weeks. That gives time for the Tory party to pick a new leader before Autumn, which is also when the party conferences happen.
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On July 07 2022 17:19 Silvanel wrote:
Didn't he win a vote of confidence like a month ago? What is going on right now? Is this a next part of an attampt to oust him?
Can someone explain to me what is this about? Domestic affairs? Foreign? How is this going to impact British suport towards Ukraine? Honestly it just seems to me that most of the Conservative Party MP's just really hate Chris Pincher. Boris had just survived a vote of no confidence caused by lowered ability to win votes from partygate. If the Conservative party wanted to get rid of Boris they would had done so a week earlier, rather than now. The tipping point in this case really seems to be appointing Chris Pincher as chief whip.
As for British support for Ukraine, rather suprisingly, all potential replacements appear to be deeply supportive of Ukraine. Hard to say, as the primary cheerleader was Boris and it's always wise to mimic what your boss is cheering for. But as always the proof will be the actions they undertake once whoever it is takes power.
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United States42283 Posts
On July 08 2022 04:53 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2022 17:19 Silvanel wrote:
Didn't he win a vote of confidence like a month ago? What is going on right now? Is this a next part of an attampt to oust him?
Can someone explain to me what is this about? Domestic affairs? Foreign? How is this going to impact British suport towards Ukraine? Honestly it just seems to me that most of the Conservative Party MP's just really hate Chris Pincher. Boris had just survived a vote of no confidence caused by lowered ability to win votes from partygate. If the Conservative party wanted to get rid of Boris they would had done so a week earlier, rather than now. The tipping point in this case really seems to be appointing Chris Pincher as chief whip. As for British support for Ukraine, rather suprisingly, all potential replacements appear to be deeply supportive of Ukraine. Hard to say, as the primary cheerleader was Boris and it's always wise to mimic what your boss is cheering for. But as always the proof will be the actions they undertake once whoever it is takes power.
Boris has nothing to do with the British Ukraine policy. It had been institutional MOD policy for years. We’ve been in Ukraine training them for this specific war since 2015. It would have taken considerably more strength of character than Boris has to change the established MOD manual for this eventuality. Every other possible leader will follow the same manual because a major shift in global strategy is far more work than not. This isn’t Blair taking us into Iraq on a whim, this is the overall MOD strategy of containment of Russian aggression that has been formulated with allies over the better part of a decade. A golden retriever as PM would look no different to any other candidate in this area.
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Well kwark, who should be head of government to incite you to come back to the UK?
One rule only: must be politician in the UK already.
My feeling from the snippets I register from PMQs is that Keir Starmer has nothing on the Tory party but the high road he purports to take.
There's no vision from labor, no idea of how the country should be, could be!
I just hear another snob having fun playing with grand words and his wit, veiling his insults and kindergarten disputes in metaphor and grandstanding.
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Starmer's only ambition is to be PM, he has no ambition for the UK.
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On July 07 2022 17:24 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2022 17:19 Silvanel wrote:
Didn't he win a vote of confidence like a month ago? What is going on right now? Is this a next part of an attampt to oust him? Winning a vote of no confidence is only narrowly better than losing it. The fact it happened in the first place means you’re already teetering over the cliff. He’s always been unpopular in his own party due to a 30 year history of lies, impropriety and scandal. Nobody else wanted responsibility for Brexit or COVID but with those done there really isn’t much reason for them to keep him around. He took the job out of ego while smarter men waited for a better time. It appears the consensus is that the better time is now.
But is it better time? Inflation is rising, there is war ongoing and Brexit is still not done. As I've recently learned, there is unilateral move from the UK to break NI agreement or something along those lines which the EU wasn't very happy about.
Edit: Also, COVID isn't over. It's on the rise here and in Greece. We'll see about the rest of EU.
Having said that, good that Boris Johnson is going. I still see him as leftover of what a t*rd 2016 was:
- Trump elected
- Brexit accepted
With Trump out and Boris out, I gotta admit it feels a little better now.
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United States42283 Posts
On July 08 2022 06:02 Artisreal wrote:
Well kwark, who should be head of government to incite you to come back to the UK?
One rule only: must be politician in the UK already.
My feeling from the snippets I register from PMQs is that Keir Starmer has nothing on the Tory party but the high road he purports to take.
There's no vision from labor, no idea of how the country should be, could be!
I just hear another snob having fun playing with grand words and his wit, veiling his insults and kindergarten disputes in metaphor and grandstanding.
Honestly I don’t know who the current Lib Dem leader is but they’re the only party advocating for Brejoining the EU. Labour would be better than Tories but comes with added disappointment.
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United States42283 Posts
On July 08 2022 06:10 SC-Shield wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2022 17:24 KwarK wrote:On July 07 2022 17:19 Silvanel wrote:
Didn't he win a vote of confidence like a month ago? What is going on right now? Is this a next part of an attampt to oust him? Winning a vote of no confidence is only narrowly better than losing it. The fact it happened in the first place means you’re already teetering over the cliff. He’s always been unpopular in his own party due to a 30 year history of lies, impropriety and scandal. Nobody else wanted responsibility for Brexit or COVID but with those done there really isn’t much reason for them to keep him around. He took the job out of ego while smarter men waited for a better time. It appears the consensus is that the better time is now. But is it better time? Inflation is rising, there is war ongoing and Brexit is still not done. As I've recently learned, there is unilateral move from the UK to break NI agreement or something along those lines which the EU wasn't very happy about. Edit: Also, COVID isn't over. It's on the rise here and in Greece. We'll see about the rest of EU. Having said that, good that Boris Johnson is going. I still see him as leftover of what a t*rd 2016 was: - Trump elected - Brexit accepted With Trump out and Boris out, I gotta admit it feels a little better now.
I see no problems a new leader couldn’t blame on Boris and no upcoming tough decisions. Boris was the man stupid enough to accept the poisoned chalice. Now he’s drained it I think his successor will be in good shape. All the upcoming clusterfucks are extensions of preexisting mistakes and I doubt any of the Conservatives has any kind of vision. If all you want to do is hang out in no10 then there’s never been a better time to do it.
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Northern Ireland24512 Posts
On July 08 2022 06:02 Artisreal wrote:
Well kwark, who should be head of government to incite you to come back to the UK?
One rule only: must be politician in the UK already.
My feeling from the snippets I register from PMQs is that Keir Starmer has nothing on the Tory party but the high road he purports to take.
There's no vision from labor, no idea of how the country should be, could be!
I just hear another snob having fun playing with grand words and his wit, veiling his insults and kindergarten disputes in metaphor and grandstanding.
To a degree.
There’s not a huge amount of vision, nor an especially competent execution of said vision from the Tories. And what there is is, in my opinion mostly bad.
That said I don’t think this excuses Labour’s general lack of development of a coherent policy platform, and as importantly, articulating said vision to the wider populace.
I’m yet to be convinced beyond them being better than the Tories. But that’s really not a high bar to clear
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On July 08 2022 06:10 SC-Shield wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2022 17:24 KwarK wrote:On July 07 2022 17:19 Silvanel wrote:
Didn't he win a vote of confidence like a month ago? What is going on right now? Is this a next part of an attampt to oust him? Winning a vote of no confidence is only narrowly better than losing it. The fact it happened in the first place means you’re already teetering over the cliff. He’s always been unpopular in his own party due to a 30 year history of lies, impropriety and scandal. Nobody else wanted responsibility for Brexit or COVID but with those done there really isn’t much reason for them to keep him around. He took the job out of ego while smarter men waited for a better time. It appears the consensus is that the better time is now. But is it better time? Inflation is rising, there is war ongoing and Brexit is still not done. As I've recently learned, there is unilateral move from the UK to break NI agreement or something along those lines which the EU wasn't very happy about. Edit: Also, COVID isn't over. It's on the rise here and in Greece. We'll see about the rest of EU. Having said that, good that Boris Johnson is going. I still see him as leftover of what a t*rd 2016 was: - Trump elected - Brexit accepted With Trump out and Boris out, I gotta admit it feels a little better now. Anyone that becomes leader now has 2 years for things to get better and then claim it was all their doing.
But yes I think the big thing to worry about is the Irish Sea border dividing the UK that they themselves proposed but are seemingly unable to deal with. They already passed the law to unilaterally change the agreement but whoever gets in charge will still have to deal with actually going through with it and utterly destroying the UK's credibility internationally.
Unless they are counting on Boris managing to do that before he is actually replaced?
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The problem of Northern Ireland is akin to squaring the circle. It is impossible to find a solution that does not break at least one of the two core principles - that Northern Ireland and Ireland should be connected, and that Great Britain and Northern Ireland should be connected.
It was possible in the past since everyone played by the same EU rules, but now that the UK has decided to leave, there was always going to be a contradiction.
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Northern Ireland24512 Posts
On July 08 2022 12:30 gobbledydook wrote:
The problem of Northern Ireland is akin to squaring the circle. It is impossible to find a solution that does not break at least one of the two core principles - that Northern Ireland and Ireland should be connected, and that Great Britain and Northern Ireland should be connected.
It was possible in the past since everyone played by the same EU rules, but now that the UK has decided to leave, there was always going to be a contradiction.
If the U.K. remained in the Customs Union as per May’s proposed deal it wouldn’t be an issue, at all.
It’s an issue because of this ‘hardest Brexit possible’ nonsense.
Or don’t do that.
But even still, broadly the NI Protocol fudge has a pretty sizeable support as a ‘best of a bad situation’ fudge, much as the DUP want to throw their toys out the pram ad per usual.
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The NI Protocol could have worked but it would require the UK government to actually help businesses prepare for, and deal with the amount of bureaucracy involved in international trade. The fact the UK is still not implementing border checks 2 years after leaving, despite border control being one of the supposed reasons for leaving just shows how unprepared they still are.
May's deal would have avoided all that but was never an option, it would be not really leaving the EU and still being bound by their rules but voluntarily giving up representation during the creation of those rules. If you go for that your better off not leaving at all.
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