I have only found this on the internet:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/belarus-election-result-2020-protest-uk-lukashenko-dominic-raab-latest-a9673596.html
saying the exact opposite, but it is also 2 days old.
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Simberto
Germany11029 Posts
August 19 2020 17:40 GMT
#11681
I have only found this on the internet: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/belarus-election-result-2020-protest-uk-lukashenko-dominic-raab-latest-a9673596.html saying the exact opposite, but it is also 2 days old. | ||
Harris1st
Germany6035 Posts
September 07 2020 12:56 GMT
#11682
Brexit news – live: EU says Boris Johnson's plans to rip up agreement risk peace on Ireland and will lead to no-deal, as Labour warns PM playing 'dangerous game' www.independent.co.uk | ||
Silvanel
Poland4597 Posts
September 07 2020 13:07 GMT
#11683
| ||
Jockmcplop
United Kingdom8674 Posts
September 07 2020 13:10 GMT
#11684
Use the ideological hatred of the EU to get their numbers back up and relive pressure on Johnson. Brexit is a silly game. | ||
Gorsameth
Netherlands20700 Posts
September 07 2020 13:18 GMT
#11685
And Boris is once again threatening a no-deal Brexit, something he has been trying to achievement from the start? I am shocked... /s | ||
Harris1st
Germany6035 Posts
September 07 2020 13:24 GMT
#11686
Merkel is no saint but gosh am I happy to live in Germany sometimes | ||
WombaT
Northern Ireland20508 Posts
September 07 2020 13:54 GMT
#11687
On September 07 2020 22:07 Silvanel wrote: Irish call it "sabre rattling". https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/brexit-senior-irish-politicians-play-down-sabre-rattling-from-uk-on-withdrawal-deal-1.4348572 I guess, we will see. Well I mean it is sabre-rattling, outside of using a less colourful metaphor I’m not sure what one would call it. Aside from this long-standing idiocy on leaving a club, keeping what you like and shedding what you don’t being remotely achievable, showing you’re unreliable in honouring your agreements isn’t exactly good craic either. The DUP (who I fucking despise) got thrown under the bus over the Withdrawal Agreement, despite going into coalition with the Conservatives. Now they’re talking about not honouring that agreement and how it pertains not just to the island of Ireland, but the wider European bloc? I mean it’s not a good look. | ||
Oukka
Finland1663 Posts
September 07 2020 14:51 GMT
#11688
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2020/sep/07/coronaviruss-live-news-brexit-withdrawal-agreement-eustice-defends-apparent-threat-to-override-eu-withdrawal-agreement-as-just-tidying-up-loose-ends-live-news?page=with:block-5f5607718f08a919fc877c27#block-5f5607718f08a919fc877c27 Oh man, I'm almost defending the Tories. :r | ||
m4ini
4215 Posts
September 08 2020 14:44 GMT
#11689
On September 07 2020 23:51 Oukka wrote: The bits of this legislation seen and reported by the Guardian journalists + Show Spoiler + https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2020/sep/07/coronaviruss-live-news-brexit-withdrawal-agreement-eustice-defends-apparent-threat-to-override-eu-withdrawal-agreement-as-just-tidying-up-loose-ends-live-news?page=with:block-5f5607718f08a919fc877c27#block-5f5607718f08a919fc877c27 Oh man, I'm almost defending the Tories. :r Except, after today when Brandon Lewis was standing in parliament announcing that "Yes, indeed, it does break international law - but only in a very specific way", anyone even remotely defending this crooked bullshit belongs in the same pillories as the government. There's nothing reasonable. There also was never any good faith from the british. Under Theresa May, maybe. She clearly wasn't great, but at least she acted with a shred of integrity. Nothing since Johnson can be described as "done with integrity". And then you have people like you, arguing that it "might be reasonable", when absolutely nothing the UK government has said and/or done since Johnson was reasonable. It's absolute idiocy. There's no credit to give Johnsons clownshow. None. He has done absolutely nothing right, neither in regards to Brexit nor in regards to Covid. There's nothing reasonable here. In fact, people like you are the reason that this country will turn into a dump, because all they have to do is not blatantly getting rid of workers protection - it's enough to make small changes with a big impact (like here) to have you say "well it's kinda reasonable if you look at this that way". It's not even pragmatic. It's ideological bullshit. Put this way: if your government does something illegal that could lead to an all out trade war, or rather, the only thing preventing an all out trade war being that the "other side" isn't as pubescent as your own, you should immediately be concerned, not starting to wonder if there's a way you could justify it. The EU is legally in a position to impose tariffs and even sanctions if the UK goes against the WA. As we know, the leaders of the UK have the mental capacity of a 7 year old, so if the EU indeed retaliates (fully in accordance with the law), the UK will not accept that it's a legal punishment, and retaliate as well, potentially leading to a trade war. There's a few ways to prevent that, all of which would need good will (the UK has none left, rightfully so) or trust (lol). It's just incredible to see the UK go from a renown "pragmatic country" to a untrustworthy banana republic, lead by crooks and cheered on by idiots - in the span of less than a decade. It's absolutely mindblowing. User was warned for this post. | ||
Nouar
France3270 Posts
September 08 2020 15:23 GMT
#11690
| ||
WombaT
Northern Ireland20508 Posts
September 08 2020 15:40 GMT
#11691
On September 09 2020 00:23 Nouar wrote: Nothing to see here, a bunch of very nice, very decent people. Only wanting that "democrat leaders need to be shot dead in the street" at a rally in Salem. QAnon, Patriot Prayers, Proud Boys, all very very nice people, since of course they will vote for one of the candidates. Guess who ? https://www.newsweek.com/salem-protest-far-right-qanon-democrats-shot-1530230 Of course the police is taking heavy action : Show nested quote + Video posted on social media appears to show one suspected Proud Boys supporter hitting a man with a bat before another repeatedly punches him on the ground. A woman is seen spraying mace on the man's face as he lies on the floor. Ty Parker, 53, of Durango, Colorado, was arrested on suspicion of misdemeanor assault and first-degree intimidation, reported Oregon Live. Trenton Wolfskill, 37, of Eugene, was arrested on suspicion of misdemeanor assault. Both were later released. Probably self defense. This be the UK thread broseph. | ||
Oukka
Finland1663 Posts
September 08 2020 17:10 GMT
#11692
On September 08 2020 23:44 m4ini wrote: Show nested quote + On September 07 2020 23:51 Oukka wrote: The bits of this legislation seen and reported by the Guardian journalists + Show Spoiler + https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2020/sep/07/coronaviruss-live-news-brexit-withdrawal-agreement-eustice-defends-apparent-threat-to-override-eu-withdrawal-agreement-as-just-tidying-up-loose-ends-live-news?page=with:block-5f5607718f08a919fc877c27#block-5f5607718f08a919fc877c27 Oh man, I'm almost defending the Tories. :r Except, after today when Brandon Lewis was standing in parliament announcing that "Yes, indeed, it does break international law - but only in a very specific way", anyone even remotely defending this crooked bullshit belongs in the same pillories as the government. There's nothing reasonable. There also was never any good faith from the british. Under Theresa May, maybe. She clearly wasn't great, but at least she acted with a shred of integrity. Nothing since Johnson can be described as "done with integrity". And then you have people like you, arguing that it "might be reasonable", when absolutely nothing the UK government has said and/or done since Johnson was reasonable. It's absolute idiocy. There's no credit to give Johnsons clownshow. None. He has done absolutely nothing right, neither in regards to Brexit nor in regards to Covid. There's nothing reasonable here. In fact, people like you are the reason that this country will turn into a dump, because all they have to do is not blatantly getting rid of workers protection - it's enough to make small changes with a big impact (like here) to have you say "well it's kinda reasonable if you look at this that way". It's not even pragmatic. It's ideological bullshit. Put this way: if your government does something illegal that could lead to an all out trade war, or rather, the only thing preventing an all out trade war being that the "other side" isn't as pubescent as your own, you should immediately be concerned, not starting to wonder if there's a way you could justify it. The EU is legally in a position to impose tariffs and even sanctions if the UK goes against the WA. As we know, the leaders of the UK have the mental capacity of a 7 year old, so if the EU indeed retaliates (fully in accordance with the law), the UK will not accept that it's a legal punishment, and retaliate as well, potentially leading to a trade war. There's a few ways to prevent that, all of which would need good will (the UK has none left, rightfully so) or trust (lol). It's just incredible to see the UK go from a renown "pragmatic country" to a untrustworthy banana republic, lead by crooks and cheered on by idiots - in the span of less than a decade. It's absolutely mindblowing. Oh yeah after today there is no doubt what the bill is supposed to do. And you're not wrong about Johnson's government either, they've really managed to underperform whatever low expectations people may have had of them. Regarding sanctions and whatnot, they'd be sold to the brexiteers are more unreasonable tyranny of the EU. Just as you're saying, facts haven't been relevant for the governments Brexit policies for a long time, if ever. | ||
KwarK
United States40728 Posts
September 08 2020 17:22 GMT
#11693
| ||
Oukka
Finland1663 Posts
September 08 2020 18:33 GMT
#11694
On September 09 2020 02:22 KwarK wrote: I don’t think Brexit is anything like as popular as it was when it was just an idea. Now it’s just “we ordered a shit sandwich so let’s just keep eating shit so it’s over sooner”. The number of committed Leavers has gone down as the reality approaches. I wish this was the case more, but at least my quick googling of polls regarding EU membership doesn't really show much movement. Still very much about two or three percentage point differences, either way, depending on the wording of the question and samples. It appears very very divisive issue with a fair deal of tribalism which means that people aren't willing to adjust their opinions based on new information surfacing. You're either supporting Team Brexit or you're not. | ||
Razyda
343 Posts
September 09 2020 12:18 GMT
#11695
On September 07 2020 23:51 Oukka wrote: The bits of this legislation seen and reported by the Guardian journalists + Show Spoiler + https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2020/sep/07/coronaviruss-live-news-brexit-withdrawal-agreement-eustice-defends-apparent-threat-to-override-eu-withdrawal-agreement-as-just-tidying-up-loose-ends-live-news?page=with:block-5f5607718f08a919fc877c27#block-5f5607718f08a919fc877c27 Oh man, I'm almost defending the Tories. :r Don't seem drastic??? "Under the protocol EU tariffs could apply to goods going from Britain to Northern Ireland if they are “at risk” of entering the EU market (by crossing the border into Ireland). But the protocol does not define what “at risk” goods are. The government wants to give UK ministers the power to decide this unilaterally. " This one basically gives UK government control over SM - EU wouldnt let that go even if Juncker was PM let alone BJ. State aid: The protocol says EU state aid law will apply in Northern Ireland. The UK government accepts this in so far as it refers to subsidies going to firms in Northern Ireland. But it is concerned that the protocol, as it stands, could also apply to firms in Britain if they have ancillary relations with firms in Northern Ireland. It wants to eliminate this risk by allowing the UK government to decide in what circumstances EU state aid rules apply. Not as terrifying, but similarly unacceptable, as it would let NI companies (and effectively UK - there is nothing stoping UK company from buying NI company and invest subsidies from government into it) undercut EU companies. If BJ go through with it, there wont even be a trade war, he may as well change his name to Fidel. | ||
Oukka
Finland1663 Posts
September 09 2020 13:11 GMT
#11696
On September 09 2020 21:18 Razyda wrote: Show nested quote + On September 07 2020 23:51 Oukka wrote: The bits of this legislation seen and reported by the Guardian journalists + Show Spoiler + https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2020/sep/07/coronaviruss-live-news-brexit-withdrawal-agreement-eustice-defends-apparent-threat-to-override-eu-withdrawal-agreement-as-just-tidying-up-loose-ends-live-news?page=with:block-5f5607718f08a919fc877c27#block-5f5607718f08a919fc877c27 Oh man, I'm almost defending the Tories. :r Don't seem drastic??? "Under the protocol EU tariffs could apply to goods going from Britain to Northern Ireland if they are “at risk” of entering the EU market (by crossing the border into Ireland). But the protocol does not define what “at risk” goods are. The government wants to give UK ministers the power to decide this unilaterally. " This one basically gives UK government control over SM - EU wouldnt let that go even if Juncker was PM let alone BJ. State aid: The protocol says EU state aid law will apply in Northern Ireland. The UK government accepts this in so far as it refers to subsidies going to firms in Northern Ireland. But it is concerned that the protocol, as it stands, could also apply to firms in Britain if they have ancillary relations with firms in Northern Ireland. It wants to eliminate this risk by allowing the UK government to decide in what circumstances EU state aid rules apply. Not as terrifying, but similarly unacceptable, as it would let NI companies (and effectively UK - there is nothing stoping UK company from buying NI company and invest subsidies from government into it) undercut EU companies. If BJ go through with it, there wont even be a trade war, he may as well change his name to Fidel. I think there are some legitimate concerns relating the tariffs if and when they are imposed to the goods going from GB to NI. I also think that the best way to alleviate those concerns would be to remain within the single market (and EU), but given that the government has determined that their line is to leave these then they have to come up with alternative ways. Afaik Northern Ireland is one of the poorest regions in the UK already, so any extra trade barriers that increase consumer prices are a concern. Again, best solution appears to be to stay within the single market, but if it is not an option then something else has to happen. I can see why the government wants to posture itself as defenders of the people of NI from the evil EU imposing unfair restrictions and tariffs, despite that being, let's say, a very liberal interpretation of the facts. It is also a negotiation tactic which many people (me included) think just serves to weaken the UK arguments and highlight how stupid this whole ordeal is. The state aid rules are in a similar place, they make sense from the governments position, but also show how weak the position and arguments of the government are. Also this just serves to show how important the state aid regulations EU is demanding are, if the trade agreement doesn't cover those the UK firms would be free to undercut just as you said. I don't know, maybe I've become so desensitised and dulled by the stupidity of the Brexit that this just seemed like a completely normal thing in the bizarro-world where the Brexit is actually going ahead in just about the worst way possible. Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with it but I just couldn't see it as that shocking. Now that government ministers have gone on track saying that they recognise it is illegal and the bill itself is published noting that it comes to effect 'notwithstanding' the international agreements there is even less defending the bill. However, I'd be surprised if this is going to actually have any significant impact on the government popularity or brexit stances. | ||
Gorsameth
Netherlands20700 Posts
September 09 2020 13:17 GMT
#11697
On September 09 2020 22:11 Oukka wrote: And yet NI is in this position because Boris sold them out to get his WA. Show nested quote + On September 09 2020 21:18 Razyda wrote: On September 07 2020 23:51 Oukka wrote: The bits of this legislation seen and reported by the Guardian journalists + Show Spoiler + https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2020/sep/07/coronaviruss-live-news-brexit-withdrawal-agreement-eustice-defends-apparent-threat-to-override-eu-withdrawal-agreement-as-just-tidying-up-loose-ends-live-news?page=with:block-5f5607718f08a919fc877c27#block-5f5607718f08a919fc877c27 Oh man, I'm almost defending the Tories. :r Don't seem drastic??? "Under the protocol EU tariffs could apply to goods going from Britain to Northern Ireland if they are “at risk” of entering the EU market (by crossing the border into Ireland). But the protocol does not define what “at risk” goods are. The government wants to give UK ministers the power to decide this unilaterally. " This one basically gives UK government control over SM - EU wouldnt let that go even if Juncker was PM let alone BJ. State aid: The protocol says EU state aid law will apply in Northern Ireland. The UK government accepts this in so far as it refers to subsidies going to firms in Northern Ireland. But it is concerned that the protocol, as it stands, could also apply to firms in Britain if they have ancillary relations with firms in Northern Ireland. It wants to eliminate this risk by allowing the UK government to decide in what circumstances EU state aid rules apply. Not as terrifying, but similarly unacceptable, as it would let NI companies (and effectively UK - there is nothing stoping UK company from buying NI company and invest subsidies from government into it) undercut EU companies. If BJ go through with it, there wont even be a trade war, he may as well change his name to Fidel. I think there are some legitimate concerns relating the tariffs if and when they are imposed to the goods going from GB to NI. I also think that the best way to alleviate those concerns would be to remain within the single market (and EU), but given that the government has determined that their line is to leave these then they have to come up with alternative ways. Afaik Northern Ireland is one of the poorest regions in the UK already, so any extra trade barriers that increase consumer prices are a concern. Again, best solution appears to be to stay within the single market, but if it is not an option then something else has to happen. I can see why the government wants to posture itself as defenders of the people of NI from the evil EU imposing unfair restrictions and tariffs, despite that being, let's say, a very liberal interpretation of the facts. It is also a negotiation tactic which many people (me included) think just serves to weaken the UK arguments and highlight how stupid this whole ordeal is. The state aid rules are in a similar place, they make sense from the governments position, but also show how weak the position and arguments of the government are. Also this just serves to show how important the state aid regulations EU is demanding are, if the trade agreement doesn't cover those the UK firms would be free to undercut just as you said. I don't know, maybe I've become so desensitised and dulled by the stupidity of the Brexit that this just seemed like a completely normal thing in the bizarro-world where the Brexit is actually going ahead in just about the worst way possible. Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with it but I just couldn't see it as that shocking. Now that government ministers have gone on track saying that they recognise it is illegal and the bill itself is published noting that it comes to effect 'notwithstanding' the international agreements there is even less defending the bill. However, I'd be surprised if this is going to actually have any significant impact on the government popularity or brexit stances. The government knowing placed them outside the UK by proposing a deal to the EU where the border would be located across the Irish sea. They don't get to pretend like they now case about the people of NI. | ||
Harris1st
Germany6035 Posts
September 09 2020 13:40 GMT
#11698
User was warned for this post | ||
WombaT
Northern Ireland20508 Posts
September 09 2020 13:45 GMT
#11699
On September 09 2020 22:17 Gorsameth wrote: Show nested quote + And yet NI is in this position because Boris sold them out to get his WA. On September 09 2020 22:11 Oukka wrote: On September 09 2020 21:18 Razyda wrote: On September 07 2020 23:51 Oukka wrote: The bits of this legislation seen and reported by the Guardian journalists + Show Spoiler + https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2020/sep/07/coronaviruss-live-news-brexit-withdrawal-agreement-eustice-defends-apparent-threat-to-override-eu-withdrawal-agreement-as-just-tidying-up-loose-ends-live-news?page=with:block-5f5607718f08a919fc877c27#block-5f5607718f08a919fc877c27 Oh man, I'm almost defending the Tories. :r Don't seem drastic??? "Under the protocol EU tariffs could apply to goods going from Britain to Northern Ireland if they are “at risk” of entering the EU market (by crossing the border into Ireland). But the protocol does not define what “at risk” goods are. The government wants to give UK ministers the power to decide this unilaterally. " This one basically gives UK government control over SM - EU wouldnt let that go even if Juncker was PM let alone BJ. State aid: The protocol says EU state aid law will apply in Northern Ireland. The UK government accepts this in so far as it refers to subsidies going to firms in Northern Ireland. But it is concerned that the protocol, as it stands, could also apply to firms in Britain if they have ancillary relations with firms in Northern Ireland. It wants to eliminate this risk by allowing the UK government to decide in what circumstances EU state aid rules apply. Not as terrifying, but similarly unacceptable, as it would let NI companies (and effectively UK - there is nothing stoping UK company from buying NI company and invest subsidies from government into it) undercut EU companies. If BJ go through with it, there wont even be a trade war, he may as well change his name to Fidel. I think there are some legitimate concerns relating the tariffs if and when they are imposed to the goods going from GB to NI. I also think that the best way to alleviate those concerns would be to remain within the single market (and EU), but given that the government has determined that their line is to leave these then they have to come up with alternative ways. Afaik Northern Ireland is one of the poorest regions in the UK already, so any extra trade barriers that increase consumer prices are a concern. Again, best solution appears to be to stay within the single market, but if it is not an option then something else has to happen. I can see why the government wants to posture itself as defenders of the people of NI from the evil EU imposing unfair restrictions and tariffs, despite that being, let's say, a very liberal interpretation of the facts. It is also a negotiation tactic which many people (me included) think just serves to weaken the UK arguments and highlight how stupid this whole ordeal is. The state aid rules are in a similar place, they make sense from the governments position, but also show how weak the position and arguments of the government are. Also this just serves to show how important the state aid regulations EU is demanding are, if the trade agreement doesn't cover those the UK firms would be free to undercut just as you said. I don't know, maybe I've become so desensitised and dulled by the stupidity of the Brexit that this just seemed like a completely normal thing in the bizarro-world where the Brexit is actually going ahead in just about the worst way possible. Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with it but I just couldn't see it as that shocking. Now that government ministers have gone on track saying that they recognise it is illegal and the bill itself is published noting that it comes to effect 'notwithstanding' the international agreements there is even less defending the bill. However, I'd be surprised if this is going to actually have any significant impact on the government popularity or brexit stances. The government knowing placed them outside the UK by proposing a deal to the EU where the border would be located across the Irish sea. They don't get to pretend like they now case about the people of NI. I was OK with that deal, hardcore unionists not so much. There’s a reason the most socially conservative area of the UK kind of bucked the general trend and voted Remain, and by a pretty big margin too. Given how our economy is structured and especially in agriculture, business owners or workers in our various industries know and can correctly observe how the EU affects their bottom line. Unlike say the less tangible or predictable ‘if we leave and take back control x might happen’, people here directly have dealings with EU regulation and benefits. If we’re going to leave, well for a lot of people NI being some kind of bridge zone between the EU via the land border with Ireland and close proximity to the UK wasn’t too bad as compromises go. Could be our unique selling point and incentive much-needed investment. We don’t lack talented people we just haemorrhage them. The alternative seems pretty shit to me. We’d not be in the EU, nor pseudo in the EU, but hey at least we can get state aid from the UK. Given how this government and previous ones have tended to treat NI, I’m not exactly over the moon about sacrificing that for hypothetical state aid that is probably not going to be forthcoming. Not that the British particularly care about our Southern brethren, but depending on what deal is agreed this is hugely economically impactful there too. Aside from the UK being the chief export market, the majority of Irish European exports go through the UK and into Europe via Calais, so that’s a looming catastrophe over their economy. I mean, it’s a fucking mess let’s be real. It’s not even balancing benefits and costs here, where are the benefits of Brexit? We’re just weighing up which condiment will make eating the shit we’re contractually obliged to consume the least unpalatable. | ||
Oukka
Finland1663 Posts
September 09 2020 14:00 GMT
#11700
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