UK Politics Mega-thread - Page 585

On September 07 2020 22:07 Silvanel wrote:
Irish call it "sabre rattling". https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/brexit-senior-irish-politicians-play-down-sabre-rattling-from-uk-on-withdrawal-deal-1.4348572 I guess, we will see.

On September 07 2020 23:51 Oukka wrote:
The bits of this legislation seen and reported by the Guardian journalists + Show Spoiler + don't seem that drastic, obviously still not great. Now the government really doesn't have any goodwill left (if it had any to begin with), so it is hard to tell people to wait until the actual law text is out, but I think waiting until the actual bill is published might be reasonable here.

Oh man, I'm almost defending the Tories. :r

On September 09 2020 00:23 Nouar wrote:
Nothing to see here, a bunch of very nice, very decent people. Only wanting that "democrat leaders need to be shot dead in the street" at a rally in Salem. QAnon, Patriot Prayers, Proud Boys, all very very nice people, since of course they will vote for one of the candidates. Guess who ?

https://www.newsweek.com/salem-protest-far-right-qanon-democrats-shot-1530230


Of course the police is taking heavy action :



Probably self defense.

On September 08 2020 23:44 m4ini wrote:


Except, after today when Brandon Lewis was standing in parliament announcing that "Yes, indeed, it does break international law - but only in a very specific way", anyone even remotely defending this crooked bullshit belongs in the same pillories as the government.

There's nothing reasonable. There also was never any good faith from the british. Under Theresa May, maybe. She clearly wasn't great, but at least she acted with a shred of integrity.

Nothing since Johnson can be described as "done with integrity". And then you have people like you, arguing that it "might be reasonable", when absolutely nothing the UK government has said and/or done since Johnson was reasonable.

It's absolute idiocy. There's no credit to give Johnsons clownshow. None. He has done absolutely nothing right, neither in regards to Brexit nor in regards to Covid. There's nothing reasonable here. In fact, people like you are the reason that this country will turn into a dump, because all they have to do is not blatantly getting rid of workers protection - it's enough to make small changes with a big impact (like here) to have you say "well it's kinda reasonable if you look at this that way".

It's not even pragmatic. It's ideological bullshit. Put this way: if your government does something illegal that could lead to an all out trade war, or rather, the only thing preventing an all out trade war being that the "other side" isn't as pubescent as your own, you should immediately be concerned, not starting to wonder if there's a way you could justify it.

The EU is legally in a position to impose tariffs and even sanctions if the UK goes against the WA. As we know, the leaders of the UK have the mental capacity of a 7 year old, so if the EU indeed retaliates (fully in accordance with the law), the UK will not accept that it's a legal punishment, and retaliate as well, potentially leading to a trade war. There's a few ways to prevent that, all of which would need good will (the UK has none left, rightfully so) or trust (lol).

It's just incredible to see the UK go from a renown "pragmatic country" to a untrustworthy banana republic, lead by crooks and cheered on by idiots - in the span of less than a decade. It's absolutely mindblowing.

On September 09 2020 02:22 KwarK wrote:
I don’t think Brexit is anything like as popular as it was when it was just an idea. Now it’s just “we ordered a shit sandwich so let’s just keep eating shit so it’s over sooner”. The number of committed Leavers has gone down as the reality approaches.

On September 07 2020 23:51 Oukka wrote:
The bits of this legislation seen and reported by the Guardian journalists + Show Spoiler + don't seem that drastic, obviously still not great. Now the government really doesn't have any goodwill left (if it had any to begin with), so it is hard to tell people to wait until the actual law text is out, but I think waiting until the actual bill is published might be reasonable here.

Oh man, I'm almost defending the Tories. :r

On September 09 2020 21:18 Razyda wrote:


Don't seem drastic???

"Under the protocol EU tariffs could apply to goods going from Britain to Northern Ireland if they are “at risk” of entering the EU market (by crossing the border into Ireland). But the protocol does not define what “at risk” goods are. The government wants to give UK ministers the power to decide this unilaterally. "

This one basically gives UK government control over SM - EU wouldnt let that go even if Juncker was PM let alone BJ.

State aid: The protocol says EU state aid law will apply in Northern Ireland. The UK government accepts this in so far as it refers to subsidies going to firms in Northern Ireland. But it is concerned that the protocol, as it stands, could also apply to firms in Britain if they have ancillary relations with firms in Northern Ireland. It wants to eliminate this risk by allowing the UK government to decide in what circumstances EU state aid rules apply.

Not as terrifying, but similarly unacceptable, as it would let NI companies (and effectively UK - there is nothing stoping UK company from buying NI company and invest subsidies from government into it) undercut EU companies.

If BJ go through with it, there wont even be a trade war, he may as well change his name to Fidel.

On September 09 2020 22:11 Oukka wrote:


I think there are some legitimate concerns relating the tariffs if and when they are imposed to the goods going from GB to NI. I also think that the best way to alleviate those concerns would be to remain within the single market (and EU), but given that the government has determined that their line is to leave these then they have to come up with alternative ways. Afaik Northern Ireland is one of the poorest regions in the UK already, so any extra trade barriers that increase consumer prices are a concern. Again, best solution appears to be to stay within the single market, but if it is not an option then something else has to happen.

I can see why the government wants to posture itself as defenders of the people of NI from the evil EU imposing unfair restrictions and tariffs, despite that being, let's say, a very liberal interpretation of the facts. It is also a negotiation tactic which many people (me included) think just serves to weaken the UK arguments and highlight how stupid this whole ordeal is.

The state aid rules are in a similar place, they make sense from the governments position, but also show how weak the position and arguments of the government are. Also this just serves to show how important the state aid regulations EU is demanding are, if the trade agreement doesn't cover those the UK firms would be free to undercut just as you said.

I don't know, maybe I've become so desensitised and dulled by the stupidity of the Brexit that this just seemed like a completely normal thing in the bizarro-world where the Brexit is actually going ahead in just about the worst way possible. Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with it but I just couldn't see it as that shocking. Now that government ministers have gone on track saying that they recognise it is illegal and the bill itself is published noting that it comes to effect 'notwithstanding' the international agreements there is even less defending the bill. However, I'd be surprised if this is going to actually have any significant impact on the government popularity or brexit stances.

On September 09 2020 22:17 Gorsameth wrote:
And yet NI is in this position because Boris sold them out to get his WA.
The government knowing placed them outside the UK by proposing a deal to the EU where the border would be located across the Irish sea.
They don't get to pretend like they now case about the people of NI.