EPTUK Politics Mega-thread - Page 555
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Oukka
Finland1683 Posts
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maybenexttime
Poland5837 Posts
On September 10 2019 05:53 Oukka wrote: Revoking A50 should only really happen after a referendum. But if the question is again leave/remain then the referendum is as useless as the first one, leave doesn't mean anything until it is defined and I cannot see the brexiteer side agreeing to a referendum that has several leave option against a simple remain. So a meaningful second referendum feels quite far away at the moment. Maybe the election will clear the situation but I'm still very much doubtful about that. The election won't clear anything due to the FPTP system that you have, as well as the fact that the two main parties don't even have clear opinions on the issue. A second referendum is the best course of action. Just split it into two rounds, so that in the second round you have remain vs the most preferred version of Brexit or make it a ranked vote. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22452 Posts
On September 10 2019 03:42 maybenexttime wrote: Won't happen unless the EU denies the extension, which I also don't see happening.I'm predicting the parliament being with its back against the wall, revoking a. 50, and Boris swallowing the Brexit Party, winning the election and shrugging his hands, admitting that he can't leave after a. 50 was revoked. But in that event yes, I can see enough of the more moderate Brexiters defact to avert disaster. If a simple majority is enough, because I don't see em getting 2/3. After that comes chaos tho, hell angry brexiters might cause it to get a majority again in parliament and they can trigger A50 again and keep this whole show going :p | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9915 Posts
Parliament sometimes is just great haha. In other news, the Lib Dems are now officially pursuing ra policy of revoking A50. Personally I think that would be nearly as disastrous as no-deal Brexit in the long term. I also think Labour and the Lib Dems need to present a united front, whatever that happens to be, to stand a chance of beating Boris. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/09/liberal-democrats-poised-to-back-revoking-article-50-brexit The Liberal Democrats are set to officially back revoking article 50 in an attempt to position themselves as the most pro-EU political party. The move would effectively sever the chances of an alliance with Labour at a forthcoming general election. The Lib Dem leader, Jo Swinson, said she would support the cancellation of Brexit, and the party expected to adopt this policy and write it into its election manifesto. “I relish the chance to take the fight to Boris Johnson in an election and I’m confident we’d make significant gains,” said Swinson, who was elected as the party’s first female leader in July. “Whenever the election comes, our position is clear and unequivocal. A majority Liberal Democrat government would not renegotiate Brexit, we would cancel it by revoking article 50 and remaining in the European Union.” She will take the proposal to a vote at the party’s autumn conference in Bournemouth, which starts on Saturday. | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4427 Posts
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/19/labour-may-stay-neutral-if-second-referendum-is-between-its-brexit-deal-or-remain Personally i’m guessing the UK will leave with a deal on Oct 31 but anything could happen really. | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On September 10 2019 18:46 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Not surprising from Lib Dems considering Corbyn wouldn’t even commit to backing remain in a 2nd referendum instead opting to take a neutral stance. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/19/labour-may-stay-neutral-if-second-referendum-is-between-its-brexit-deal-or-remain Personally i’m guessing the UK will leave with a deal on Oct 31 but anything could happen really. That seems highly unlikely. We'll hit the same roadblock we have for years (if not others): The GFA. Since day one it seems nobody thought about it, and once it came up nobody had a solution, and years later nobody has one. I somehow doubt that Boris Johnson is the political genius we need to resolve an issue actual competent people haven't been able to. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5837 Posts
On September 10 2019 19:40 iamthedave wrote: That seems highly unlikely. We'll hit the same roadblock we have for years (if not others): The GFA. Since day one it seems nobody thought about it, and once it came up nobody had a solution, and years later nobody has one. I somehow doubt that Boris Johnson is the political genius we need to resolve an issue actual competent people haven't been able to. May actually mentioned that as a serious obstacle either during the campaign or shortly after the referendum. They were aware of it, just pretended it doesn't exist. | ||
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schaf
Germany1326 Posts
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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Simberto
Germany11918 Posts
The whole thing is so incredibly stupid, and has been stupid from the start. It seems as if the UK really needs to touch the hot stove to learn. But it is just so pointless. You could simply not do it, but for some inexplicable reason, the UK really, really wants to burn themselves and ignore anyone and anything that could help them prevent it. And at this point, i think a lot of people are simply tired of it. I just hope that once people realize just how shit this decision was, that they learn some lessons from it. But honestly, i expect them not to. They will still blame the EU or whatever other scapegoat they can find for their own bad decisions. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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pmh
1416 Posts
On September 09 2019 18:24 Razyda wrote: There also is an issue that Brexit preparation in EU (I am saying EU because I am somewhat doubtful about UK ones) will reach the point where no Brexit is actually more damaging than any Brexit. You would think its kinda close to this point. British economy grew last semester,thus far they are not suffering all that much under the "thread" of brexit. Its a gamble where to place your money. I go with leave 31 oct with a deal. | ||
KwarK
United States44179 Posts
On September 11 2019 00:52 pmh wrote: You would think its kinda close to this point. British economy grew last semester,thus far they are not suffering all that much under the "thread" of brexit. Its a gamble where to place your money. I go with leave 31 oct with a deal. Pound has fallen really far. Global income denominated in pounds looks better but the purchasing power of Brits has fallen by 20% at a time when domestic production of consumables is at an all time low and wages are stagnant. British population are hurting from Brexit. | ||
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pmh
1416 Posts
Inflation is the way these things are done,also with the crisis in 2007. (which is why we now pay twice as much for a house). Its the most indirect and least painful way for paying the cost,it comes slowly and people start to notice that their income doesnt carry as far as it did only after a few years have passed. But the economy still looks good because the assets are going up,there is something fundamentally wrong with the way we look at the economy,i wont deny that. I dont know how much all of this is because of brexit or because the european economys face more and more competition in general. The uk is not the only european country where the common people are worse of then they where 10 years ago. You can see it all over europe maybe with the exception of eastern europe. | ||
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Longshank
1648 Posts
Just as it looked to be a dull week, the prorogation of Parliament has been ruled unlawful. Brexit, the gift that keeps on giving. | ||
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Banaora
Germany234 Posts
That an Humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, that she will be graciously pleased to direct Ministers to lay before this House, not later than 11.00pm Wednesday 11 September, all correspondence and other communications (whether formal or informal, in both written and electronic form, including but not limited to messaging services including WhatsApp, Telegram, Signal, Facebook messenger, private email accounts both encrypted and unencrypted, text messaging and iMessage and the use of both official and personal mobile phones) to, from or within the present administration, since 23 July 2019 relating to the prorogation of Parliament sent or received by one or more of the following individuals: Hugh Bennett, Simon Burton, Dominic Cummings, Nikki da Costa, Tom Irven, Sir Roy Stone, Christopher James, Lee Cain or Beatrice Timpson; and that Ministers be further directed to lay before this House no later than 11.00pm Wednesday 11 September all the documents prepared within Her Majesty's Government since 23 July 2019 relating to operation Yellowhammer and submitted to the Cabinet or a Cabinet Committee. Let's see whether the government complies and if not whether there are criminal charges for example under the snoopers' charter. It's also interesting to note that Dominic Grieve is one of the members of the privy council of the queen. [Edit] This is the government's reply: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/government-response-to-humble-address-motion | ||
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FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Netherlands30548 Posts
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/831199/20190802_Latest_Yellowhammer_Planning_assumptions_CDL.pdf Only one change, the heading in the obtained leaks was 'base scenario' and is now 'worst case'. Interesting spin. So...significant medical supply chain disruption , food price increases, increase of the illegal economy, no international data for law enforcement, local fuel shortages, and job losses and resulting protests. | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On September 12 2019 01:35 Banaora wrote: The week wasn't dull at all before the court's ruling. There was another standing order 24 motion by Dominic Grieve requiring all messages concerning operation yellowhammer and the prorogation of parliament to be published by 11pm today. This motion passed 311-302. Let's see whether the government complies and if not whether there are criminal charges for example under the snoopers' charter. It's also interesting to note that Dominic Grieve is one of the members of the privy council of the queen. [Edit] This is the government's reply: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/government-response-to-humble-address-motion Don't forget Bercow simultaneously retiring and giving a giant middle finger to the Tories. | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4427 Posts
On September 11 2019 19:30 Longshank wrote: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-49661855 Just as it looked to be a dull week, the prorogation of Parliament has been ruled unlawful. Brexit, the gift that keeps on giving. I wouldn’t get your hopes up. Fact is the new law that he needs to seek an extension has the deadline of Oct 19, Boris may just sit on his hands for another month.Quite likely he will put up an amended treaty for vote before even attempting to get an extension. | ||
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Deleted User 26513
2376 Posts
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