EPTLike being born a random poor farmer in tibet. Or currently in syria. Sure, your life is a bit predetermined, but it is also a life with no monetary worries, lots of luxuries, and a bunch of (albeit soft) power and respect.
UK Politics Mega-thread - Page 435
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Simberto
Germany11940 Posts
Like being born a random poor farmer in tibet. Or currently in syria. Sure, your life is a bit predetermined, but it is also a life with no monetary worries, lots of luxuries, and a bunch of (albeit soft) power and respect. | ||
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
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Razyda
1049 Posts
On July 17 2018 06:45 Zaros wrote: ERG won both important votes making it so we won't collect tariffs on behalf of the EU unless they collect tariffs on behalf of the UK and that the U.K. leaves the EU VAT regulatory scheme. Basically meaning Theresa May's brexit plan is dead before it even gets to Brussels. Basically it means no deal Brexit it is and no withdrawal agreement, unless in display of colossal stupidity EU will give UK all Leave campaign promised. Staying in EU vat regime "unlawful" and "unlawful" for Northern Ireland to form a separate customs territory to Great Britain, means there is no way around hard border in NI, means no withdrawal agreement, means no deal whatsoever. | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On July 17 2018 04:07 sc-darkness wrote: Well, if you feel it's ironic considering English is my third language, while it's the native one for you, then so be it. Still, I'd say the queen and not honour their title. It's worthless anyway. What did they achieve? They won the genetic lottery without doing anything. That's a great achievement. I'm impressed. I think I'm on Labour's side in this case even though left wing isn't my cup of tea. Then you're being deliberately disrespectful towards England's head of state, which is a kind of arseholish thing to do, especially since the Queen hasn't made a major diplomatic misstep in her entire life and has treated everybody in every country she's ever visited with the utmost respect and dignity. The Queen's an incredibly important cultural figure, around which most of England can rally. It's something that's easy to miss in this era where everyone seems to hate their country, but here's a truth: Nobody likes politicians, but almost everyone loves the Queen. As an institution the monarchy's real value only comes into play in times of great cultural stress, like what we're in now. Englishness is back on the menu and we're having to redefine it whether we like it or not. The Queen doesn't represent tomorrow, she represents the entirety of English cultural identity and history. She's a bedrock from which we can define our today and tomorrow. She was incredibly important during WW II for the same reason. And likewise, though other nations go up and down in their estimation of our government, most of them love the Queen; she represents everything Great in Britain. Leaning on the privilege argument is simple ignorance. Yes, she was born into fabulous wealth and is taken care of at the taxpayers' expense. The idea that we get nothing back for that money is absolute horseshit. | ||
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Longshank
1648 Posts
On July 17 2018 18:04 iamthedave wrote: Then you're being deliberately disrespectful towards England's head of state, which is a kind of arseholish thing to do, especially since The Queen hasn't made a major diplomatic misstep in her entire life and has treated everybody in every country she's ever visited with the utmost respect and dignity. The Queen's an incredibly important cultural figure, around which most of England can rally. It's something that's easy to miss in this era where everyone seems to hate their country, but here's a truth: Nobody likes politicians, but almost everyone loves the Queen. As an institution the monarchy's real value only comes into play in times of great cultural stress, like what we're in now. Englishness is back on the menu and we're having to redefine it whether we like it or not. The Queen doesn't represent tomorrow, she represents the entirety of English cultural identity and history. She's a bedrock from which we can define our today and tomorrow. She was incredibly important during WW II for the same reason. And likewise, though other nations go up and down in their estimation of our government, most of them love The Queen; she represents everything Great in Britain. Leaning on the privilege argument is simple ignorance. Yes, she was born into fabulous wealth and is taken care of at the taxpayers' expense. The idea that we get nothing back for that money is absolute horseshit. Sorry to be that guy, I agree with what you say, but you don't usually capitalize the 'the' before Queen in a sentence no? Anyways, it's pretty much the same in Sweden. Perhaps not quite as strict as in the UK but it's not ok to be disrespectful towards the King, Queen or Crown Princess. | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On July 17 2018 18:36 Longshank wrote: Sorry to be that guy, I agree with what you say, but you don't usually capitalize the 'the' before Queen in a sentence no? Anyways, it's pretty much the same in Sweden. Perhaps not quite as strict as in the UK but it's not ok to be disrespectful towards the King, Queen or Crown Princess. Yes, that was a minor grammar fail on my part. Fixed | ||
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Razyda
1049 Posts
 . Oddly enough they do that only on the most crucial votes. | ||
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Razyda
1049 Posts
"A radical blueprint for a free trade deal between the UK and the US that would see the NHS opened to foreign competition, a bonfire of consumer and environmental regulations and freedom of movement between the two countries for workers, is to be launched by prominent Brexiters." Second part of the blueprint will probably read: "JRM for governor " Sorry for double post. This thread seems dead now . | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9956 Posts
I've seen things like this proposed before and they never seem to get too far, so hopefully nothing will come of it. | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9956 Posts
On September 21 2018 08:22 kollin wrote: I would put money on Norway model being the final 2019 deal reached. Probably needs an election between then and now because it's unlikely May has the remaining political capital to change course without electoral approval so late in the day. Do you get the feeling the EU leaders are trying to force an election so they can have some kind of real, committed policy to work with? | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18393 Posts
On September 21 2018 16:11 Jockmcplop wrote: Do you get the feeling the EU leaders are trying to force an election so they can have some kind of real, committed policy to work with? I don't really get the feeling the EU leaders are trying to force an election. They *are* trying to get a deal that works best for the EU. If that means the UK descends into a chaotic reelection because May can't get her shit together, that's kinda the UK's problem. Bungling shit from day 1 and then expecting Europe to just rubber stamp whatever "deal" you cobble together, however bad it is for the EU, is not the way you should Brexit. Blame your own government for their bungling. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9956 Posts
On September 21 2018 18:50 Acrofales wrote: I don't really get the feeling the EU leaders are trying to force an election. They *are* trying to get a deal that works best for the EU. If that means the UK descends into a chaotic reelection because May can't get her shit together, that's kinda the UK's problem. Bungling shit from day 1 and then expecting Europe to just rubber stamp whatever "deal" you cobble together, however bad it is for the EU, is not the way you should Brexit. Blame your own government for their bungling. I'm not trying to blame the EU at all. The tories have screwed this up over and over from day one, and as a result have no real ideas on how to approach brexit. I genuinely think EU leaders want this to end well, but personally I can't see a way that this can happen with May in charge. A leadership challenge would actually reduce the chaos, due to the circumstances within our government. One faction needs to take charge instead of having May as a kind of compromise politician trying to keep things from descending into chaos. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22487 Posts
I dont see that time table working out. | ||
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Sirion
131 Posts
As to the EU leaders, they don't care. Brexit is happening, the UK is sidelined and there are more important topics to deal with. Barnier is negotiating competently, and nobody wants to get involved with a deluded PM and even more deluded MPs sniping from the sidelines. In the EU press Brexit is not even a front page topic, you get perhaps one article every few weeks. Politically, the UK political scene is widely overestimating its own importance. In particular, they just don't get that Ireland ranks above the UK in the eyes of EU leaders. And it does not help that the British press is extremely incompetent. Appallingly so. As if journalists cannot read any text which is longer than a tweet or two. I seriously don't get it. When moving to the UK I had a positive image of the UK press (well, not Sun or Daily Mail), but have since been thoroughly disillusioned. If you want a better understanding of Brexit, read the Irish press, in particular Tony Connelly. He seems to have a decent grasp of the problems and the politics. Well, this turned into kind of a rant, but Brexit is stressing me immensely. | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
On September 21 2018 19:24 Gorsameth wrote: Between the time it takes to hold elections, forming a government and the Holiday season you would be looking at 2019 before a new government can seriously get to work and then you have 3 months to do the whole negotiation from basically 0 again. I dont see that time table working out. I think if the EU feels the UK is seriously committed to avoiding no deal, then they'll grant an extension. My confidence that there won't be a no deal situation is, ultimately, due to my faith both in Parliament voting to avoid it as well as the EU being flexible. I'm less confident about the latter of these than the former, in all honesty though. Also there'll be some sort of interplay between Brexit and the fact that the ECB is about to cut back massively on bond buying within the eurozone, which will really cause Italy to suffer. Itll likely result in further sidelining of Brexit by the EU in order to keep the eurozone together, but it also might be true that one way of maintaining political support for the euro project is i not being seen as overly intransigent, which is where Brexit provides an opportunity. I think that's fairly unlikely regardless. | ||
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Sirion
131 Posts
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
On September 21 2018 22:16 Sirion wrote: With May's speech just now I update my no deal prediction to 90%. What a mess. And there isn't really a way for parliament to stop this, since parliament does not get to vote on no deal. Parliament gets debate time in the case of a no deal looking likely under the EU Withdrawal Act - I can't see May surviving a confidence vote should it come to this. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22487 Posts
On September 21 2018 22:23 kollin wrote: Parliament gets debate time in the case of a no deal looking likely under the EU Withdrawal Act - I can't see May surviving a confidence vote should it come to this. May was never going to survive Brexit anyway. The only reason no one has made an actual move to replace her is because no one wants to be in charge when Brexit happens. May's Premiership solely exists to be a scapegoat. | ||
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