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In order to ensure that this thread meets TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we ask that everyone please adhere to this mod note. Posts containing only Tweets or articles adds nothing to the discussions. Therefore, when providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments will be actioned upon. All in all, please continue to enjoy posting in TL General and partake in discussions as much as you want! But please be respectful when posting or replying to someone. There is a clear difference between constructive criticism/discussion and just plain being rude and insulting. https://www.registertovote.service.gov.uk | ||
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Diabolique
Czech Republic5118 Posts
"Hey, all poor people from around the world, come to Europe, we in Germany have enough money to take care of you. You will get free food, clothes, accommodation, education, money (and women) ... We cannot bear it that you are unhappy in your countries." (this is a translation of an Arabic text - which was originally the translation of her speech inviting all Syrians). This text is still used today in recruitment campaign by people smugglers in the Middle East and Africa for new clients. | ||
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DickMcFanny
Ireland1076 Posts
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RvB
Netherlands6274 Posts
On June 27 2016 03:17 Jibba wrote: Every institution has structural weaknesses. This bridge is being triggered by one of the most feeble and base instincts, and Russia's destructive support of Assad has had big implications for the EU, and the ability to trigger that instinct, from the beginning. They certainly have other reasons for doing it, but this has been one of their benefits from the beginning. Refugee issues strike at the heart of one of the EU's most important agreements, and their refugee status has barely affected Russia at all. The EU's weaknesses doesn't mean you play into Putin's geopolitical hand. This is setting the stage for a bullish outlook on Russia, after the US and UK worked heavily to damage the ruble. Russia is by far the biggest victor of the Brexit. Russia and Putin really have nothing to do with the refugee crisis. The war in Syria was already going on for years and them coming here would have happened regardless of what Putin did. | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
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Godwrath
Spain10142 Posts
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NukeD
Croatia1612 Posts
On June 27 2016 04:12 Diabolique wrote: Angela Merkel's invitation: "Hey, all poor people from around the world, come to Europe, we in Germany have enough money to take care of you. You will get free food, clothes, accommodation, education, money (and women) ... We cannot bear it that you are unhappy in your countries." (this is a translation of an Arabic text - which was originally the translation of her speech inviting all Syrians). This text is still used today in recruitment campaign by people smugglers in the Middle East and Africa for new clients. ... And women?? Is that something they added or? | ||
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Elizar
Germany431 Posts
On June 27 2016 04:12 Diabolique wrote: Angela Merkel's invitation: "Hey, all poor people from around the world, come to Europe, we in Germany have enough money to take care of you. You will get free food, clothes, accommodation, education, money (and women) ... We cannot bear it that you are unhappy in your countries." (this is a translation of an Arabic text - which was originally the translation of her speech inviting all Syrians). This text is still used today in recruitment campaign by people smugglers in the Middle East and Africa for new clients. So lies were spread. The problem is people telling them and people believing them. They are still lies. Even written in bold. | ||
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Diabolique
Czech Republic5118 Posts
On June 27 2016 04:17 NukeD wrote: ... And women?? Is that something they added or? I am just making fun as this is exactly, how the people smugglers offering their services interpret her words. Of course, she did not say this, but her words are interpreted exactly like this. The economic migrants from third world do not understand German, the most even do not care about how it was translated into English. They hear, what they are told by the people, who offer to them: "Pay me 5000-10000 USD and I will get you on a boat to Europe. And there, a paradise waits for you." | ||
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RoomOfMush
1296 Posts
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Banaora
Germany234 Posts
Furthermore she could have made sure the balkan route is closed. This was done later under Austrian management against Germanys explicit will. Sure Greece would need help and we as the European Union could have offered that help to Greece and could have financed refugee camps on their territory. This pressure on Greece in my opinion would have on one side reinforced border controls by Greece - Greece has one of the biggest navies in the European Union. And on the other side this policy could have led to a surge of solidarity with Greece in other countries and they could agree to take real refugees from Greece directly. I have no idea why this has not been done. Sure Germany would have played the bad guy once again. But in my opinion we would have had a solution by now and we would have had a lot of leverage in the deal with Turkey. Maybe if that deal with Turkey fails the thing I wrote about is going to happen. But after all the bad management there is huge reluctance in many European countries to take refugees in. This is the UK thread though and I don't want to write much more on this topic. The chaos of the refugee crisis in my opinion had an impact in the British referendum and one could say had this crisis been better managed, there could now well be a decision to stay in the European Union. Immigration in general had a huge effect on people's vote. | ||
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NukeD
Croatia1612 Posts
On June 27 2016 04:28 RoomOfMush wrote: It actually is a paradise in comparison to what they have. Water is falling from the sky and food grows on trees. The only things you have to look out for is racists and bureaucrats and the latter is far more dangerous than the former. While on the other hand we have to look out for rapists and terrorists. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Diabolique
Czech Republic5118 Posts
And the problem will not be solved, until Merkel does not publicly declare: "Now, the Dublin EU treaty applies again. Stop coming. We are full. Each refugee has to apply for asylum in the first safe country on the way (=the first country without war). Whoever will continue, will be deported to the first safe country." And then, she will take the billions of EUROs saved and will pay for food, equipment, housing and eveything in refugee camps in Lebanon, Jordan, and other countries, where the REAL WAR REFUGEES are. Had she done this 2 months ago, I think, there would have been no BREXIT. This could make the difference of the 2%. | ||
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pmh
1416 Posts
On June 27 2016 01:40 Gorsameth wrote: Is it tho? The vote happened, the referendum is done. Camerons options were 1) trigger article 50 as he said he would and take away any way back or 2) resign right away, let someone else trigger article 50 and hope no one in the leave camp has the guts to do it. option 1 means a brexit 100%. option 2 has a chance of not being a brexit. Its not a stupid bluff when it is the only chance he has of winning (no brexit). Hmm this is very interesting perspective. Might be true, I don't think anyone in the leave camp has the guts to trigger article 50. Which is probably one reason why they don't seem to be in a hurry at all. And which might also explain the pressure from Europe to trigger the article asap. Banking on the thought that no one dares to. Triggering article 50 feels like political suicide,even though the majority voted to do so. The person who does (and probably his party as well) will take all the blame when something goes bad, and that something will go bad seems like a certainty. | ||
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DickMcFanny
Ireland1076 Posts
On June 27 2016 04:31 NukeD wrote: While on the other hand we have to look out for rapists and terrorists. User was temp banned for this post. How is this ban-worthy? Let's not kid ourselves, when Merkel made the decision to open the floodgates, she was briefed by her security experts saying 'Rape will increase by X, the likelihood for terrorist attacks will increase by Y' and she decided that X amount of rapes and Y amount of terrorist attacks were a reasonable tradeoff. And it's not like NukeD was describing the remote possibility of that happening. It already happened and it's still happening pretty much every day. | ||
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pmh
1416 Posts
If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost. Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron. With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership. How? Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor. And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legislation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew. The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction. The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50? Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders? Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-manoeuvred and check-mated. If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act. The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice. When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take. All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign | ||
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Deleuze
United Kingdom2102 Posts
On June 27 2016 01:31 Godwrath wrote: That would be the most expensive and stupid bluff that i can think off. Almost as expensive and stupid as proposing a referendum the stake of which was the very future of your country in order to secure leadership and win a majority for your party. | ||
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pmh
1416 Posts
He is the one who promised a referendum, and he also promised to invoke article 50 right away after the referendum. As he is the one who promised it,he is also the one who should execute the result. He now put the burden of executing the result with the leave campaign,making the execution a very tricky affair that will take forever. . | ||
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Reaps
United Kingdom1280 Posts
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SoSexy
Italy3725 Posts
On June 27 2016 04:31 NukeD wrote: While on the other hand we have to look out for rapists and terrorists. User was temp banned for this post. Congratulations, mods. | ||
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Diabolique
Czech Republic5118 Posts
I already made some comment in the Automated ban list. Some Mods are ... not that intelligent. This is exactly the reason, why BREXIT is happening, why TRUMP will become the next US president. People have enough of Political correctness. | ||
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