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Gorsameth
Netherlands22619 Posts
On June 27 2016 01:00 Banaora wrote: According to this interview from Sky News there is no brexit plan. Neither Downing Street nor the Brexit campaigners prepared one. Is that for real? I don't see how this is any different from the Republican party in the US striving to have Obamacare declared illegal while having 0 plans for a different system. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22619 Posts
On June 27 2016 01:31 Godwrath wrote: That would be the most expensive and stupid bluff that i can think off. Is it tho? The vote happened, the referendum is done. Camerons options were 1) trigger article 50 as he said he would and take away any way back or 2) resign right away, let someone else trigger article 50 and hope no one in the leave camp has the guts to do it. option 1 means a brexit 100%. option 2 has a chance of not being a brexit. Its not a stupid bluff when it is the only chance he has of winning (no brexit). | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10165 Posts
To me it sounds like people is still on the denial phase. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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xM(Z
Romania5299 Posts
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REDBLUEGREEN
Germany1904 Posts
On June 27 2016 00:20 Jibba wrote: How about pointing out Russia was proven right? It's actually kind of easy to break up the EU. All they had to do was bomb the shit out of Syria. This is going swimmingly for them. British people are at each other's throats, and ignoring the root of the international forces that led them there, which just happens to be a country that wants the EU weakened and destabilized. Not to mention the UK probably took the hardest line on EU sanctions against Russia. Now those sanctions are set up to be buried. Eh. It's was mostly NATO that destabilized the European periphery with wars and funding of rebel groups. Sure Russia also did it's part and of course heavily propagandized the refugee crisis and supported right(and left) wing anti-EU groups. In the end I don't think either Russia or the US would like to see a United States of Europe since even though we are allies the US might lose it's undoubtly world hegemon status. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 27 2016 02:03 xM(Z wrote: still, i expected the brexiters to have a leader and a plan of sorts by now, instead everyone seems to be washing their hands of all of this. I get the impression that a lot of people expected them to have a plan, but they seemed more focused on winning by straight up lying to people. | ||
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Melliflue
United Kingdom1389 Posts
On June 27 2016 02:03 xM(Z wrote: still, i expected the brexiters to have a leader and a plan of sorts by now, instead everyone seems to be washing their hands of all of this. If a brexiteer takes over then they will expected to deliver on all the things they kinda-but-never-actually promised; more money for the NHS but also keeping all the money for people who received money from the EU; better trade deals with non-EU countries than we had within the EU; putting into British law the worker rights given by EU law; access to the single market without freedom of movement for workers; and so on. Nobody wants to have to do all that. It is better to be on the outside criticising and saying how much better you could have done it. | ||
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Diabolique
Czech Republic5118 Posts
On June 27 2016 03:02 Melliflue wrote: If a brexiteer takes over then they will expected to deliver on all the things they kinda-but-never-actually promised; more money for the NHS but also keeping all the money for people who received money from the EU; better trade deals with non-EU countries than we had within the EU; putting into British law the worker rights given by EU law; access to the single market without freedom of movement for workers; and so on. Nobody wants to have to do all that. It is better to be on the outside criticising and saying how much better you could have done it. Yes, the funny thing is, some of these things are even contradictory. I was quite happy, after the results were announced, but seeing, the UK does not have a trustworthy leader with a clear program, who would be the face of the new effort and would take all the responsibility (sorry, Farage is not such a guy), it seems more and more as an unwanted catastrophe. The only thing, which would make sense, would be to have BREXIT in the program of some reasonable party, the party would win elections, then make the referendum and then perform it. Now, it is just a Greek tragedy. | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13424 Posts
On June 27 2016 03:02 Melliflue wrote: If a brexiteer takes over then they will expected to deliver on all the things they kinda-but-never-actually promised; more money for the NHS but also keeping all the money for people who received money from the EU; better trade deals with non-EU countries than we had within the EU; putting into British law the worker rights given by EU law; access to the single market without freedom of movement for workers; and so on. Nobody wants to have to do all that. It is better to be on the outside criticising and saying how much better you could have done it. By resigning Cameron has basically crippled the brexit movement. They are forced to try and fail on some counts resulting in disillusion or not even try resulting in anger. The brexit referendum has thrown UK politics into a shit show for years to come. | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On June 27 2016 01:13 LegalLord wrote: You're not wrong that it would be mostly in Russia's interests if the EU were to have troubles (maybe not in general, certainly in its current iteration). But maybe you'd be better off considering what made it so fragile that some bombing of some country that has been in civil war for a long time, would set off a crisis like this. Maybe it's the EU itself that turned some random FP intervention by Russia among others into a full-blown internal crisis. Not that I accept that as the truth, mind you - this entire point is about as stupid as the one MP who said that Russia bombed Syria to encourage Brexit. It's really easy to blame evil Russia with its fascist leader Putler than to accept that the EU itself had the structural weakness that gave the Eurosceptics so much ammunition. Every institution has structural weaknesses. This bridge is being triggered by one of the most feeble and base instincts, and Russia's destructive support of Assad has had big implications for the EU, and the ability to trigger that instinct, from the beginning. They certainly have other reasons for doing it, but this has been one of their benefits from the beginning. Refugee issues strike at the heart of one of the EU's most important agreements, and their refugee status has barely affected Russia at all. The EU's weaknesses doesn't mean you play into Putin's geopolitical hand. This is setting the stage for a bullish outlook on Russia, after the US and UK worked heavily to damage the ruble. Russia is by far the biggest victor of the Brexit. | ||
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Diabolique
Czech Republic5118 Posts
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Sermokala
United States14210 Posts
On June 27 2016 03:23 Diabolique wrote: Just please, stop pretending, Putin has anything to do with the migrant crisis. This crisis has been caused by one single person in the world - Angela Merkel. Yeah darn her for respecting human rights and not forcing refugees to go back to their war torn homelands. Give us a break on the anti-Germany bus the entire EU has enjoyed the free transit provisions for decades until now. | ||
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NukeD
Croatia1612 Posts
On June 27 2016 03:38 Sermokala wrote: Yeah darn her for respecting human rights and not forcing refugees to go back to their war torn homelands. Give us a break on the anti-Germany bus the entire EU has enjoyed the free transit provisions for decades until now. There are better ways to do it other than how she's done it. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5869 Posts
On June 27 2016 03:38 Sermokala wrote: Yeah darn her for respecting human rights and not forcing refugees to go back to their war torn homelands. Give us a break on the anti-Germany bus the entire EU has enjoyed the free transit provisions for decades until now. Except that the vast majority of those people are not from Syria and are not refugees either... | ||
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Reaps
United Kingdom1280 Posts
On June 27 2016 03:50 maybenexttime wrote: Except that the vast majority of those people are not from Syria and are not refugees either... This, i believe 1 in 5 are from Syria. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14210 Posts
On June 27 2016 03:50 NukeD wrote: There are better ways to do it other than how she's done it. And those are? Don't just make a vague statement and expect people to respect it. On June 27 2016 03:50 maybenexttime wrote: Except that the vast majority of those people are not from Syria and are not refugees either... Then they're coming from the rest of the war torn middle east or Africa. And yes they're refugees even if they're moving for economic reasons because they're country is in ruins from the wars in their homelands. | ||
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Lonyo
United Kingdom3884 Posts
On June 27 2016 01:31 Godwrath wrote: That would be the most expensive and stupid bluff that i can think off. Well, he was sensible by stepping down and giving the responsibility to his successor, since it buys time to try and sort things out, and it also absolves him of direct responsibility. I doubt the rest of it was really there, but you don't want your legacy and last act to be actually activate Article 50. So he washed his hands of his whole mess, which was clever from a personal perspective, and also bought himself/the country 3 months of reflection before triggering the 2 year process, which is good from a country/EU perspective in some ways, but also bad because it prolongs uncertainty. | ||
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NukeD
Croatia1612 Posts
On June 27 2016 03:59 Sermokala wrote: And those are? Don't just make a vague statement and expect people to respect it. Then they're coming from the rest of the war torn middle east or Africa. And yes they're refugees even if they're moving for economic reasons because they're country is in ruins from the wars in their homelands. Surelly you can think of something better than exclaiming "hey everyone! Come to germany! Everyone! We accept everyone in any number!". | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 27 2016 04:05 NukeD wrote: Surelly you can think of something better than exclaiming "hey everyone! Come to germany! Everyone! We accept everyone in any number!". That isn't a solution, that is just claiming it could be better. It can always be better, but that doesn't mean you stop doing it. | ||
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