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On June 24 2016 20:29 Diabolique wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 19:50 hifriend wrote:
I hope Scotland sticks with UK for their own sake.
I also hope the EU will not be petty trying to 'punish' the Brits, their only concern should be expediating the process establishing new, reasonable agreements. "They need to discourage other nations from leaving" what kind of a union needs to punish parties to keep them in line, why should it exist then.
I hope this triggers renegotiations from other countries as well, and fundamental reform of EU. EU losing a big chunk of its budget is only positive at this point. EU is not working, yet it keeps growing and its powers keep expanding. The criticism isn't limited to the UK it is ubiquitous. I wish they would see this for what it is and make a serious change of direction. Absolutely. But as they were saying during tonight's BBC broadcast, the EU will need to punish the UK so that no other country dares to follow the UK steps. Otherwise, they could realize that the EU free economic movement area was something that everybody wanted while the today's dictatorship of a mad German lady is something what nobody wants.
Like i keep saying the UK imports far more from Europe than it exports.
If you think the EU is coming out of this with no economic hit you're delusional.
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On June 24 2016 20:06 Ragnarork wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 19:46 DickMcFanny wrote:On June 24 2016 19:42 Linear wrote:On June 24 2016 19:36 DickMcFanny wrote:Ja, ich bin selbst deutsch. Thank you very much!  Fuck, link doesn't work "http://zdf0910-lh.akamaihd.net/z/de09_v1@392871/manifest.f4m" Bei der Wiedergabe ist ein Fehler aufgetreten. Inhalte mit Geoblocking können nur von Deutschland aus abgerufen werden. Waiting for you to either say you're racist or to show me some facts about your earlier claims... Nah, it's just not worth it. I could show you immigration statistics of second and third generation Turks in Germany, I could give you polls after polls after polls showing that Muslims consider Islam above state laws, I could point to a thousand anecdotes of refugees in refugee camps trying to force Islamic bullshit on Christian refugees, I could point at the state of secularism in pretty much every single Muslim majority country. You can just call me racist and in your mind you have won the argument. Outside of the USA, Muslim integration has never worked. You could but you didn't, so stop making baseless claims or put up sources. I for one would be really interested to see these. But something tells me they aren't that legit, or you'd have listed them already.
Well, do you trust Pew research? Or Gallup? Do you think Al Jazeera is trustworthy?
Just as a primer:
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/
![[image loading]](http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/gsi2-overview-1.png)
How is this in any way relatable to the English way of life?
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On June 24 2016 20:32 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 20:21 Makro wrote:
i'm quite surprised i have to say, david cameron was 2% closer to do a brillant political move I dunno, had he won 51/49 he would still have half of the electorate asking to leave and asking for another referendum because when it's that close, anything can make it change.
i agree with what you said, but a first win would at least been quite symbolic for him even at this early stage
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United Kingdom10823 Posts
On June 24 2016 20:25 Dan HH wrote:
Saw the vote breakdown by age brackets, seems the 65+ have decided this referendum. It's the same in my country, I'm 28 and only once out of 10 I've been on the winning side of a vote. With Europe's low natality rates and high life expectancy, there's simply no way for the 18-35 people to compete with the 65+, it's frustrating but I don't think there's anything to be done about it. I can only hope I won't be on the wrong side of history as often when I'm that age.
I hate to say it, because I've valued my right to vote for as long as I've had, but judging by how votes have actually gone...I might just stop voting by the age of 55 (if I make it that far)
It should be down to those who will live with the consequences. I have little right at that stage to vote for such a long term change
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On June 24 2016 20:33 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 20:31 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On June 24 2016 19:48 Hassybaby wrote:
So the UK Petitions site crashed... The left wing authoritarians lost this one. You cannot seriously call for 17,000,000 peoples votes to be ignored becuase the vote didn't go the way you wanted. Indeed, just like you cannot call for 16,500,000 votes to be ignored because the vote went the way you wanted. An almost 50/50 result calls for debate and compromise, not for immediate decision.
That's how it works though, like it or not. If the numbers were switched and Brexit didn't happen plenty of people would be very happy with majority rule and would call Brexiters anti-democratic for contesting the result because of how close they are.
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United Kingdom10823 Posts
On June 24 2016 20:38 Makro wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 20:32 OtherWorld wrote:On June 24 2016 20:21 Makro wrote:
i'm quite surprised i have to say, david cameron was 2% closer to do a brillant political move I dunno, had he won 51/49 he would still have half of the electorate asking to leave and asking for another referendum because when it's that close, anything can make it change. i agree with what you said, but a first win would at least been quite symbolic for him even at this early stage
Plus he would've gotten away with a promise he didn't want himself
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I guess "Brexit"s and anti-EU guys are missing a point.
Look. I live in Turkey. I live in a Muslim country. My family and my wifes family are Muslim's too. I live in Istanbul with at least 2 MILLION (Not thousand) emmigrants. And infamous Ramadan is happening right now.
But you lived in EU (or at least prosecular) nations. If you took EU only as a political or economic organization youll miss one big thing. It also represents common good sense. Ofc there is a Norway example but lets be honest, none of EU country is civilized like them. (I know Turks aren't civilized either. Hell... no way near them)
Before Erdogan "regime" we were ruled by democracy too. But there was and always be some demogog, good speecher, a politician with mass media power (hi Berlusconi) abuses democracys flaws. I always feel being a EU country gives good sense to its citizens.
I'm not saying English will become Nazi's of the new age. England has the longest history of democracy in modern era. But still i feel like heavy anti immigration, proBrit policies can change that to a degree.
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It's a bit like people who haven't sent an e-mail in their lives voting on net neutrality or encryption laws in the US.
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On June 24 2016 20:33 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 20:31 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On June 24 2016 19:48 Hassybaby wrote:
So the UK Petitions site crashed... The left wing authoritarians lost this one. You cannot seriously call for 17,000,000 peoples votes to be ignored becuase the vote didn't go the way you wanted. Indeed, just like you cannot call for 16,500,000 votes to be ignored because the vote went the way you wanted. An almost 50/50 result calls for debate and compromise, not for immediate decision.
Well, the politic of EU has clearly show that it does not care of democracy (Greece, France) and their supporters too, see some declarations or just pandemonia's posts, this is quite funny but pretty dangerous.
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On June 24 2016 20:37 DickMcFanny wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 20:06 Ragnarork wrote:On June 24 2016 19:46 DickMcFanny wrote:On June 24 2016 19:42 Linear wrote:On June 24 2016 19:36 DickMcFanny wrote:Ja, ich bin selbst deutsch. Thank you very much! Fuck, link doesn't work "http://zdf0910-lh.akamaihd.net/z/de09_v1@392871/manifest.f4m" Bei der Wiedergabe ist ein Fehler aufgetreten. Inhalte mit Geoblocking können nur von Deutschland aus abgerufen werden. Waiting for you to either say you're racist or to show me some facts about your earlier claims... Nah, it's just not worth it. I could show you immigration statistics of second and third generation Turks in Germany, I could give you polls after polls after polls showing that Muslims consider Islam above state laws, I could point to a thousand anecdotes of refugees in refugee camps trying to force Islamic bullshit on Christian refugees, I could point at the state of secularism in pretty much every single Muslim majority country. You can just call me racist and in your mind you have won the argument. Outside of the USA, Muslim integration has never worked. You could but you didn't, so stop making baseless claims or put up sources. I for one would be really interested to see these. But something tells me they aren't that legit, or you'd have listed them already. Well, do you trust Pew research? Or Gallup? Do you think Al Jazeera is trustworthy? Just as a primer: http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/How is this in any way relatable to the English way of life?
I think you were asked to provide source to prove that Muslims want sharia law in Britain/European countries, not in their home countries. Try again.
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On June 24 2016 20:36 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 20:29 Diabolique wrote:On June 24 2016 19:50 hifriend wrote:
I hope Scotland sticks with UK for their own sake.
I also hope the EU will not be petty trying to 'punish' the Brits, their only concern should be expediating the process establishing new, reasonable agreements. "They need to discourage other nations from leaving" what kind of a union needs to punish parties to keep them in line, why should it exist then.
I hope this triggers renegotiations from other countries as well, and fundamental reform of EU. EU losing a big chunk of its budget is only positive at this point. EU is not working, yet it keeps growing and its powers keep expanding. The criticism isn't limited to the UK it is ubiquitous. I wish they would see this for what it is and make a serious change of direction. Absolutely. But as they were saying during tonight's BBC broadcast, the EU will need to punish the UK so that no other country dares to follow the UK steps. Otherwise, they could realize that the EU free economic movement area was something that everybody wanted while the today's dictatorship of a mad German lady is something what nobody wants. Like i keep saying the UK imports far more from Europe than it exports. If you think the EU is coming out of this with no economic hit you're delusional.
Nobody says the EU will not have an economic hit. This is also the problem, that they will not act in the best economic interests of both sides, but they will try to punish the UK in such a way that no other country thinks about leaving the EU as well.
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On June 24 2016 20:41 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 20:37 DickMcFanny wrote:On June 24 2016 20:06 Ragnarork wrote:On June 24 2016 19:46 DickMcFanny wrote:On June 24 2016 19:42 Linear wrote:On June 24 2016 19:36 DickMcFanny wrote:Ja, ich bin selbst deutsch. Thank you very much! Fuck, link doesn't work "http://zdf0910-lh.akamaihd.net/z/de09_v1@392871/manifest.f4m" Bei der Wiedergabe ist ein Fehler aufgetreten. Inhalte mit Geoblocking können nur von Deutschland aus abgerufen werden. Waiting for you to either say you're racist or to show me some facts about your earlier claims... Nah, it's just not worth it. I could show you immigration statistics of second and third generation Turks in Germany, I could give you polls after polls after polls showing that Muslims consider Islam above state laws, I could point to a thousand anecdotes of refugees in refugee camps trying to force Islamic bullshit on Christian refugees, I could point at the state of secularism in pretty much every single Muslim majority country. You can just call me racist and in your mind you have won the argument. Outside of the USA, Muslim integration has never worked. You could but you didn't, so stop making baseless claims or put up sources. I for one would be really interested to see these. But something tells me they aren't that legit, or you'd have listed them already. Well, do you trust Pew research? Or Gallup? Do you think Al Jazeera is trustworthy? Just as a primer: http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/How is this in any way relatable to the English way of life? I think you were asked to provide source to prove that Muslims want sharia law in Britain/European countries, not in their home countries. Try again.
Yeah, I can't dig too far now, I'm at work. But at the same site you will find statistics that around 40% of Muslims in the UK (specifically) want Sharia Law and that 25% thought that murders against people who insult their prophet are justified.
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On June 24 2016 20:41 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 20:37 DickMcFanny wrote:On June 24 2016 20:06 Ragnarork wrote:On June 24 2016 19:46 DickMcFanny wrote:On June 24 2016 19:42 Linear wrote:On June 24 2016 19:36 DickMcFanny wrote:Ja, ich bin selbst deutsch. Thank you very much! Fuck, link doesn't work "http://zdf0910-lh.akamaihd.net/z/de09_v1@392871/manifest.f4m" Bei der Wiedergabe ist ein Fehler aufgetreten. Inhalte mit Geoblocking können nur von Deutschland aus abgerufen werden. Waiting for you to either say you're racist or to show me some facts about your earlier claims... Nah, it's just not worth it. I could show you immigration statistics of second and third generation Turks in Germany, I could give you polls after polls after polls showing that Muslims consider Islam above state laws, I could point to a thousand anecdotes of refugees in refugee camps trying to force Islamic bullshit on Christian refugees, I could point at the state of secularism in pretty much every single Muslim majority country. You can just call me racist and in your mind you have won the argument. Outside of the USA, Muslim integration has never worked. You could but you didn't, so stop making baseless claims or put up sources. I for one would be really interested to see these. But something tells me they aren't that legit, or you'd have listed them already. Well, do you trust Pew research? Or Gallup? Do you think Al Jazeera is trustworthy? Just as a primer: http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/How is this in any way relatable to the English way of life? I think you were asked to provide source to prove that Muslims want sharia law in Britain/European countries, not in their home countries. Try again.
Pretty sure we could poll sections of the US and replace the question with "Christian Values be the basis for the law of the land" and get similar results. But we still allow Texas to exist.
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On June 24 2016 20:40 Aceace wrote:
I guess "Brexit"s and anti-EU guys are missing a point.
Look. I live in Turkey. I live in a Muslim country. My family and my wifes family are Muslim's too. I live in Istanbul with at least 2 MILLION (Not thousand) emmigrants. And infamous Ramadan is happening right now.
But you lived in EU (or at least prosecular) nations. If you took EU only as a political or economic organization youll miss one big thing. It also represents common good sense. Ofc there is a Norway example but lets be honest, none of EU country is civilized like them. (I know Turks aren't civilized either. Hell... no way near them)
Before Erdogan "regime" we were ruled by democracy too. But there was and always be some demogog, good speecher, a politician with mass media power (hi Berlusconi) abuses democracys flaws. I always feel being a EU country gives good sense to its citizens.
I'm not saying English will become Nazi's of the new age. England has the longest history of democracy in modern era. But still i feel like heavy anti immigration, proBrit policies can change that to a degree.
What did you want to say? Yes, Turkey before Erdogan was a democracy. Now it is not. EU before Merkel + company was a democracy. Now it is not.
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On June 24 2016 20:41 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 20:37 DickMcFanny wrote:On June 24 2016 20:06 Ragnarork wrote:On June 24 2016 19:46 DickMcFanny wrote:On June 24 2016 19:42 Linear wrote:On June 24 2016 19:36 DickMcFanny wrote:Ja, ich bin selbst deutsch. Thank you very much! Fuck, link doesn't work "http://zdf0910-lh.akamaihd.net/z/de09_v1@392871/manifest.f4m" Bei der Wiedergabe ist ein Fehler aufgetreten. Inhalte mit Geoblocking können nur von Deutschland aus abgerufen werden. Waiting for you to either say you're racist or to show me some facts about your earlier claims... Nah, it's just not worth it. I could show you immigration statistics of second and third generation Turks in Germany, I could give you polls after polls after polls showing that Muslims consider Islam above state laws, I could point to a thousand anecdotes of refugees in refugee camps trying to force Islamic bullshit on Christian refugees, I could point at the state of secularism in pretty much every single Muslim majority country. You can just call me racist and in your mind you have won the argument. Outside of the USA, Muslim integration has never worked. You could but you didn't, so stop making baseless claims or put up sources. I for one would be really interested to see these. But something tells me they aren't that legit, or you'd have listed them already. Well, do you trust Pew research? Or Gallup? Do you think Al Jazeera is trustworthy? Just as a primer: http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/How is this in any way relatable to the English way of life? I think you were asked to provide source to prove that Muslims want sharia law in Britain/European countries, not in their home countries. Try again.
It's not hard to use google, that information is readily available.
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On June 24 2016 20:41 Diabolique wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 20:36 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On June 24 2016 20:29 Diabolique wrote:On June 24 2016 19:50 hifriend wrote:
I hope Scotland sticks with UK for their own sake.
I also hope the EU will not be petty trying to 'punish' the Brits, their only concern should be expediating the process establishing new, reasonable agreements. "They need to discourage other nations from leaving" what kind of a union needs to punish parties to keep them in line, why should it exist then.
I hope this triggers renegotiations from other countries as well, and fundamental reform of EU. EU losing a big chunk of its budget is only positive at this point. EU is not working, yet it keeps growing and its powers keep expanding. The criticism isn't limited to the UK it is ubiquitous. I wish they would see this for what it is and make a serious change of direction. Absolutely. But as they were saying during tonight's BBC broadcast, the EU will need to punish the UK so that no other country dares to follow the UK steps. Otherwise, they could realize that the EU free economic movement area was something that everybody wanted while the today's dictatorship of a mad German lady is something what nobody wants. Like i keep saying the UK imports far more from Europe than it exports. If you think the EU is coming out of this with no economic hit you're delusional. Nobody says the EU will not have an economic hit. This is also the problem, that they will not act in the best economic interests of both sides, but they will try to punish the UK in such a way that no other country thinks about leaving the EU as well.
If Merkel keeps bringing in a million refugees a year the economy will not be the main issue here.
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On June 24 2016 20:44 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 20:41 OtherWorld wrote:On June 24 2016 20:37 DickMcFanny wrote:On June 24 2016 20:06 Ragnarork wrote:On June 24 2016 19:46 DickMcFanny wrote:On June 24 2016 19:42 Linear wrote:On June 24 2016 19:36 DickMcFanny wrote:Ja, ich bin selbst deutsch. Thank you very much! Fuck, link doesn't work "http://zdf0910-lh.akamaihd.net/z/de09_v1@392871/manifest.f4m" Bei der Wiedergabe ist ein Fehler aufgetreten. Inhalte mit Geoblocking können nur von Deutschland aus abgerufen werden. Waiting for you to either say you're racist or to show me some facts about your earlier claims... Nah, it's just not worth it. I could show you immigration statistics of second and third generation Turks in Germany, I could give you polls after polls after polls showing that Muslims consider Islam above state laws, I could point to a thousand anecdotes of refugees in refugee camps trying to force Islamic bullshit on Christian refugees, I could point at the state of secularism in pretty much every single Muslim majority country. You can just call me racist and in your mind you have won the argument. Outside of the USA, Muslim integration has never worked. You could but you didn't, so stop making baseless claims or put up sources. I for one would be really interested to see these. But something tells me they aren't that legit, or you'd have listed them already. Well, do you trust Pew research? Or Gallup? Do you think Al Jazeera is trustworthy? Just as a primer: http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/How is this in any way relatable to the English way of life? I think you were asked to provide source to prove that Muslims want sharia law in Britain/European countries, not in their home countries. Try again. Pretty sure we could poll sections of the US and replace the question with "Christian Values be the basis for the law of the land" and get similar results. But we still allow Texas to exist.
Hum, there are some differences with the current use of sharia and Christian values you know?
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instead of blaming the people that voted for leave, their concern should be adressed and it's clearly not by saying that they are racist or something else that things will go better
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On June 24 2016 20:40 algue wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 20:33 OtherWorld wrote:On June 24 2016 20:31 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On June 24 2016 19:48 Hassybaby wrote:
So the UK Petitions site crashed... The left wing authoritarians lost this one. You cannot seriously call for 17,000,000 peoples votes to be ignored becuase the vote didn't go the way you wanted. Indeed, just like you cannot call for 16,500,000 votes to be ignored because the vote went the way you wanted. An almost 50/50 result calls for debate and compromise, not for immediate decision. That's how it works though, like it or not. If the numbers were switched and Brexit didn't happen plenty of people would be very happy with majority rule and would call Brexiters anti-democratic for contesting the result because of how close they are.
That's true. But that's not what should happen, unless you don't want to resolve any problems.
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EPT
rescued us from the diabolical economic strategy the Labour idiots had, our country was back on track, more people in jobs and economy getting better and better (beating forecasts last year!). Yet no one believed him when he was on about economic issues and is forced to die by his sword 
