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On June 25 2013 08:57 Manifesto7 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 08:48 Hryul wrote:On June 25 2013 08:44 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 08:42 Hryul wrote:On June 25 2013 08:24 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 08:21 Hryul wrote:On June 25 2013 08:02 Manifesto7 wrote:On June 25 2013 07:55 lolmlg wrote:On June 25 2013 07:44 Manifesto7 wrote:
Yawn at the sheeple...
... get off of the site and never come back. Don't want you, don't need you. I'm sorry but as both a mod and a poster I've never found you to be a positive contributor to this website. You never seem to handle your duties or any particular subject with class. At some point you're going to have to realize that lowering yourself to the level of internet posters you dislike isn't going to solve any problems. So as to not veer completely off-topic, though, I just want to say that I found it incredibly amusing to read the first page of this thread, then the last. Emblematic of "internet forum", I suppose. I don't know who you are. People where discussing if it is constructive for the discussion to use terms like " privileged white straight male" and then you enter the scene and start insulting people by calling them "sheeple" and "fuck you". That's quite an anti-timing, don't you think? It's not up to me to judge moderators since I'm just another generic 1k posts guy and you the mighty manifesto. But I'm quite glad not every mod has such emotional outburst like you do. Click his profile, kid. He isn't a mod. Manifesto-Prime if we wanted. He gives two shits about you and your feelings. Really, he is a mirror of how the rest of the world feels about all of us and our feelings. Well I am aware, that manifesto is not a mod. I was wrongly using the word "mod" for "member of the staff". (He still can ban users though and does so.) And I guess you follow him closely since you are so eager to jump his bandwagon of talking down onto someone and swearing at people? I wasn't aware that idiots and bigots were on equal intellectual footing. If he talked straight or even up you wouldn't be able to hear him. And from what exactly did you deduce that I am an idiot or bigot? This thread was fifty pages of hand wringing apologetics and a few stupid trolls. Talking down to people is sometimes necessary. And, if you took my post about dipping my penis into butterscotch pudding literally, then, well, sorry? I thought the hyperbole was pretty obvious.
Ban the trolls and shout at people all you want. (Maybe you even spawn a funny pic, like Kwark) I just don't like it that you did it the 4chan way.
I already wondered why this thread stayed open for such a long time. Given the one line OP and the consequent downward spiral of quality.
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On June 25 2013 09:10 jax1492 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 09:03 Manifesto7 wrote:On June 25 2013 08:59 jax1492 wrote:On June 25 2013 08:51 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2013 08:45 jax1492 wrote:
I have to agree with the people who said religion and politics don't have a place in esports. people, no matter their gender or sexual orientation, do of course they do, but what does that have to do with TL? I come to TL to read/watch sc2, no to be told what to think. The banner tells you what to think? The next banner is going to have a "donate to manifesto" sign on it then. you make my point, if you don't agree you get bashed. for the record, i don't care about the logo but i feel that TL should be neutral on issues other than sc2/dota etc. well, that too i guess.
"1. THIS IS OUR HOUSE
You are our guests. We will make all attempts to treat everyone with due respect and to accommodate everyone's wishes as far as reasonably possible. But, this is a private site. We are not funded by any governments. This means we run the site the way we see fit. We are not obligated to observe anyone's notions of "free speech" or even "fairness." We try of course, and that's why we're consistently considered one of the best gaming sites on the web, and you are always free to give us suggestions (Website Feedback Forum). But, we have our limits. If we don't like you, we simply ban you."
Nope, I guess not.
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On June 25 2013 09:08 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 09:06 Bore wrote:On June 25 2013 09:03 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 08:52 Zenocide wrote:On June 25 2013 08:47 Jormundr wrote:On June 25 2013 08:37 Bore wrote:On June 25 2013 08:31 KwarK wrote:On June 25 2013 08:29 Zenocide wrote:On June 25 2013 08:21 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 08:20 Zenocide wrote:
[quote]
That's fine, judge away. I just would like think people on here would be kind enough to not name call when someone is explaining their opinion. Is that too much to ask? If I think your opinion is dumb and you provide crappy evidence to back it up, I am likely to call you dumb. I don't think personal experiences are a crappy way to support your own some of your opinions. My experience talking to you is a great way to form an opinion on your intelligence but a shitty way to form an opinion on tl. Likewise your experience talking to your neighbours is a shitty way to form an opinion on homosexuality within society. But he is not forming an opinion on homosexuality on society he is stating that he dosent like how certain homosexuals act. Or am i missing something here? "I don't hate black people, I just dislike the ones that act so damn niggerish." "I don't hate gay people, I just hate faggots." Notice how neither is really a valuable input to the conversation, and both are self contradictory? Lets rephrase them both to make them less inflammatory and more informative: "I don't hate black people as long as they act white!" "I don't hate gay people as long as they act straight!" This is what that "viewpoint" boils down to. No, I dislike smoking, do I hate smokers? Acting non obnoxious and keeping to yourself =/= acting straight. In response to this I will say this. Fucking deal with it. I don't like my next door neighbor's loud kids or their daughter and her fights with her boyfriend in the driveway. But I silently deal with them. And perhaps then you can "fucking deal with it" regarding his personal opinion? If he keeps it do himself and doesn't voice it out loud for me to read, sure. If not, well then I well tell him he is wrong. That is how opinions work.
But hes asking the "flaming" gay ppl to do same that you are asking him to do: not to bother him with their acting or opinions.
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On June 25 2013 09:11 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 09:10 jax1492 wrote:On June 25 2013 09:03 Manifesto7 wrote:On June 25 2013 08:59 jax1492 wrote:On June 25 2013 08:51 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2013 08:45 jax1492 wrote:
I have to agree with the people who said religion and politics don't have a place in esports. people, no matter their gender or sexual orientation, do of course they do, but what does that have to do with TL? I come to TL to read/watch sc2, no to be told what to think. The banner tells you what to think? The next banner is going to have a "donate to manifesto" sign on it then. you make my point, if you don't agree you get bashed. for the record, i don't care about the logo but i feel that TL should be neutral on issues other than sc2/dota etc. well, that too i guess. "1. THIS IS OUR HOUSE
You are our guests. We will make all attempts to treat everyone with due respect and to accommodate everyone's wishes as far as reasonably possible. But, this is a private site. We are not funded by any governments. This means we run the site the way we see fit. We are not obligated to observe anyone's notions of "free speech" or even "fairness." We try of course, and that's why we're consistently considered one of the best gaming sites on the web, and you are always free to give us suggestions (Website Feedback Forum). But, we have our limits. If we don't like you, we simply ban you."Nope, I guess not.
sigh, ill go back the kpop thread i guess.
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On June 25 2013 09:08 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 09:06 Bore wrote:On June 25 2013 09:03 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 08:52 Zenocide wrote:On June 25 2013 08:47 Jormundr wrote:On June 25 2013 08:37 Bore wrote:On June 25 2013 08:31 KwarK wrote:On June 25 2013 08:29 Zenocide wrote:On June 25 2013 08:21 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 08:20 Zenocide wrote:
[quote]
That's fine, judge away. I just would like think people on here would be kind enough to not name call when someone is explaining their opinion. Is that too much to ask? If I think your opinion is dumb and you provide crappy evidence to back it up, I am likely to call you dumb. I don't think personal experiences are a crappy way to support your own some of your opinions. My experience talking to you is a great way to form an opinion on your intelligence but a shitty way to form an opinion on tl. Likewise your experience talking to your neighbours is a shitty way to form an opinion on homosexuality within society. But he is not forming an opinion on homosexuality on society he is stating that he dosent like how certain homosexuals act. Or am i missing something here? "I don't hate black people, I just dislike the ones that act so damn niggerish." "I don't hate gay people, I just hate faggots." Notice how neither is really a valuable input to the conversation, and both are self contradictory? Lets rephrase them both to make them less inflammatory and more informative: "I don't hate black people as long as they act white!" "I don't hate gay people as long as they act straight!" This is what that "viewpoint" boils down to. No, I dislike smoking, do I hate smokers? Acting non obnoxious and keeping to yourself =/= acting straight. In response to this I will say this. Fucking deal with it. I don't like my next door neighbor's loud kids or their daughter and her fights with her boyfriend in the driveway. But I silently deal with them. And perhaps then you can "fucking deal with it" regarding his personal opinion? If he keeps it do himself and doesn't voice it out loud for me to read, sure. If not, well then I well tell him he is wrong. That is how opinions work.
That is not how opinions work... opinions can be dumb beyond believe but they can't be wrong, that's why they called opinions
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A lot of the comments in this thread remind me of the new Lonely Island song:
Spring Break ANthem
While I really dislike most of their stuff, there is an underlying truth. You'd be surprised at the amount of people who are offended/weirded out by the images of gay marriage as opposed to the men at spring break joking about roofies and crushing pussy.
I believe that was what they were going for when they made this.
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On June 25 2013 09:16 dr.fahrenheit wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 09:08 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 09:06 Bore wrote:On June 25 2013 09:03 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 08:52 Zenocide wrote:On June 25 2013 08:47 Jormundr wrote:On June 25 2013 08:37 Bore wrote:On June 25 2013 08:31 KwarK wrote:On June 25 2013 08:29 Zenocide wrote:On June 25 2013 08:21 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
If I think your opinion is dumb and you provide crappy evidence to back it up, I am likely to call you dumb.
I don't think personal experiences are a crappy way to support your own some of your opinions. My experience talking to you is a great way to form an opinion on your intelligence but a shitty way to form an opinion on tl. Likewise your experience talking to your neighbours is a shitty way to form an opinion on homosexuality within society. But he is not forming an opinion on homosexuality on society he is stating that he dosent like how certain homosexuals act. Or am i missing something here? "I don't hate black people, I just dislike the ones that act so damn niggerish." "I don't hate gay people, I just hate faggots." Notice how neither is really a valuable input to the conversation, and both are self contradictory? Lets rephrase them both to make them less inflammatory and more informative: "I don't hate black people as long as they act white!" "I don't hate gay people as long as they act straight!" This is what that "viewpoint" boils down to. No, I dislike smoking, do I hate smokers? Acting non obnoxious and keeping to yourself =/= acting straight. In response to this I will say this. Fucking deal with it. I don't like my next door neighbor's loud kids or their daughter and her fights with her boyfriend in the driveway. But I silently deal with them. And perhaps then you can "fucking deal with it" regarding his personal opinion? If he keeps it do himself and doesn't voice it out loud for me to read, sure. If not, well then I well tell him he is wrong. That is how opinions work. That is not how opinions work... opinions can be dumb beyond believe but they can't be wrong, that's why they called opinions
Yep, and I can call them wrong or dumb. Because that's my opinion. If you keep it to yourself, your safe.
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why is this thread over 60 pages long?
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On June 25 2013 09:19 a176 wrote:
why is this thread over 60 pages long?
Because there are a lot of morons on the internet and people on TL have far more patience than I do trying to debate them about their inane attitudes to LGBT rights
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Will TL be officially commenting on other political and social issues? Or is this a one time thing. I just want to know what to expect.
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On June 25 2013 09:19 a176 wrote:
why is this thread over 60 pages long?
3 people playing devil's advocate and two who are legitimately insane.
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I've always thought r/atheism was one of the most obnoxious subreddits and pretty much avoided it like the plague because of how they seem to believe they are superior to everyone else. Reading this thread though makes me see how some of the posters there have ended up the way they are though.
I'm glad my country isn't full of people who shape all their views based on their religion (and I'm not talking about anywhere in the middle east here).
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On June 25 2013 08:11 neoghaleon55 wrote:
I've been debating whether or not to post this all morning, but now I think I should.
A lot of you are using the argument "why should gay people get the rainbow banner this week," the idea of privilege and "being gay is nothing special and isn't a big issue anymore." I assure you, being gay still carries a heavy connotation in today's society.
Being a contributor of this website for long while now, I want to share a short experience of mine.
Two weeks ago, I was planning an anniversary with my boyfriend of 6 years. I asked him what he wanted, usually we give each other video games. You know what he said?
"I don't want anything this year, I just really want to be able to hold your hand in public"
That really broke my heart because I realized every time he tried to hold my hand when we were out, I would pull my hand away. I did so because I was scared. Some years ago, we held hands and some asshole starting screaming "faggot!!" at us. I didn't want the same thing to happen again. I feared for my own safety and his...and I live in fucking california, a pretty liberal state.
Know what I told my bf? "We can hold hands, but I prefer we don't do it near where we live. I don't want you to get hurt."
Kudos for TL for having this banner today.
I really feel safe in this website.
Thanks for sharing your story, it was quite touching. I'm really glad to see that you feel welcome here. I hope that eventually it'll be the same in the world outside of TL.net.
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On June 25 2013 09:18 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 09:16 dr.fahrenheit wrote:On June 25 2013 09:08 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 09:06 Bore wrote:On June 25 2013 09:03 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 08:52 Zenocide wrote:On June 25 2013 08:47 Jormundr wrote:On June 25 2013 08:37 Bore wrote:On June 25 2013 08:31 KwarK wrote:On June 25 2013 08:29 Zenocide wrote:
[quote]
I don't think personal experiences are a crappy way to support your own some of your opinions.
My experience talking to you is a great way to form an opinion on your intelligence but a shitty way to form an opinion on tl. Likewise your experience talking to your neighbours is a shitty way to form an opinion on homosexuality within society. But he is not forming an opinion on homosexuality on society he is stating that he dosent like how certain homosexuals act. Or am i missing something here? "I don't hate black people, I just dislike the ones that act so damn niggerish." "I don't hate gay people, I just hate faggots." Notice how neither is really a valuable input to the conversation, and both are self contradictory? Lets rephrase them both to make them less inflammatory and more informative: "I don't hate black people as long as they act white!" "I don't hate gay people as long as they act straight!" This is what that "viewpoint" boils down to. No, I dislike smoking, do I hate smokers? Acting non obnoxious and keeping to yourself =/= acting straight. In response to this I will say this. Fucking deal with it. I don't like my next door neighbor's loud kids or their daughter and her fights with her boyfriend in the driveway. But I silently deal with them. And perhaps then you can "fucking deal with it" regarding his personal opinion? If he keeps it do himself and doesn't voice it out loud for me to read, sure. If not, well then I well tell him he is wrong. That is how opinions work. That is not how opinions work... opinions can be dumb beyond believe but they can't be wrong, that's why they called opinions Yep, and I can call them wrong or dumb. Because that's my opinion. If you keep it to yourself, your safe.
 Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't think your guarantee of safety will deter anyone from posting his opinion (though I wish it would  )
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On June 25 2013 09:22 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
Will TL be officially commenting on other political and social issues? Or is this a one time thing. I just want to know what to expect.
Pretty sure TL promotes equality and non-discrimination across the board. Hope this helps.
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This thread is exactly the reason we still need as much visibility for this issue as we can get.
If the banner was put up and there were 5-10 pages of people going "cool! great to have support / banner looks sweet gj" then the only purpose being served is an inclusive celebration for pro gay rights folks, which is nice but not progressive. The existence of a pushback denotes the fact that this is reaching people who hold an opposing opinion, which is the only way societal issues change.
If all the cool people who are pro rights are just having a cool-person party and all the lame anti-rights bigots never even catch wind of it, nothing has really changed. Increasing the visibility helps reach the people that need to be reached, for every guy who's posted in this thread there's probably at least 10 who are just watching, and maybe some of them have been swayed by stories like neoghaleon's, or at least had their eyes opened to the exploration of this topic in more depth than their upbringing encouraged.
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Yes!! This is awesome! Far too many people need to be reminded that everyone deserves to be respected, and that every relationship is equally special and meaningful, whether between two men, a man and a woman, or two women.
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A great thing questioned in a terrible post which has cause bigots and morons to rear their heads.
Love the thought and its simple little things that show support that help.
Someone previously posted the gay marriage in Australia advert there is currently discussion regarding gay marriage and holding a referendum at the next election I would love for this to happen and see where it goes hopefully in the positive.
Australia also recently passed new laws that allow those who are transgender to change their gender on their official documentation (Licences, passports etc) good stepping stones to a hopefully open and accepting future.
It pisses me off that I wrote accepting there :/ It shouldn't have to be something someone accepts like its something they deal with despite disagreeing with. I guess I just want it to be the first step towards a better community
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On June 25 2013 09:16 dr.fahrenheit wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 09:08 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 09:06 Bore wrote:On June 25 2013 09:03 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 08:52 Zenocide wrote:On June 25 2013 08:47 Jormundr wrote:On June 25 2013 08:37 Bore wrote:On June 25 2013 08:31 KwarK wrote:On June 25 2013 08:29 Zenocide wrote:On June 25 2013 08:21 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
If I think your opinion is dumb and you provide crappy evidence to back it up, I am likely to call you dumb.
I don't think personal experiences are a crappy way to support your own some of your opinions. My experience talking to you is a great way to form an opinion on your intelligence but a shitty way to form an opinion on tl. Likewise your experience talking to your neighbours is a shitty way to form an opinion on homosexuality within society. But he is not forming an opinion on homosexuality on society he is stating that he dosent like how certain homosexuals act. Or am i missing something here? "I don't hate black people, I just dislike the ones that act so damn niggerish." "I don't hate gay people, I just hate faggots." Notice how neither is really a valuable input to the conversation, and both are self contradictory? Lets rephrase them both to make them less inflammatory and more informative: "I don't hate black people as long as they act white!" "I don't hate gay people as long as they act straight!" This is what that "viewpoint" boils down to. No, I dislike smoking, do I hate smokers? Acting non obnoxious and keeping to yourself =/= acting straight. In response to this I will say this. Fucking deal with it. I don't like my next door neighbor's loud kids or their daughter and her fights with her boyfriend in the driveway. But I silently deal with them. And perhaps then you can "fucking deal with it" regarding his personal opinion? If he keeps it do himself and doesn't voice it out loud for me to read, sure. If not, well then I well tell him he is wrong. That is how opinions work. That is not how opinions work... opinions can be dumb beyond believe but they can't be wrong, that's why they called opinions
In my opinion gravity is fake. I guess my opinion isn't wrong in your eyes. But I don't think you could say it's correct either. So what could you say about it? What you could say is that my opinion is meaningless because it stems from a total lack of understanding gravity. If someone demonstrates they don't understand or acknowledge crucial facts related to the subject then it's very possible they will form a very misinformed and thus worthless opinion on the subject. So if you don't want to call it "wrong", would you be okay with calling it meaningless or misinformed instead?
When someone makes up a fantasyland claim that gay people are gay because they actively choose to be gay and then forms a negative/offensive opinion against homosexuality then it's perfectly ok to go ahead and let the person know that, while they can hold that opinion, it is completely useless in any context outside of their own misinformed brain
Letting someone know they're making useless opinions is not disrespectful. It's helpful because assuming they aren't stubborn they will fix their ways eventually. This is just a general response to some of the stuff I read concerning some of the homophobic comments throughout the thread. A lot of the responses are pathetic cries for 'respecting opinions' when really the focus should be pointing out which opinions stem from facts and which ones stem from misinformed imaginations that don't belong anywhere except for inside the owner's head
On June 25 2013 09:23 garbanzo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 08:11 neoghaleon55 wrote:
I've been debating whether or not to post this all morning, but now I think I should.
A lot of you are using the argument "why should gay people get the rainbow banner this week," the idea of privilege and "being gay is nothing special and isn't a big issue anymore." I assure you, being gay still carries a heavy connotation in today's society.
Being a contributor of this website for long while now, I want to share a short experience of mine.
Two weeks ago, I was planning an anniversary with my boyfriend of 6 years. I asked him what he wanted, usually we give each other video games. You know what he said?
"I don't want anything this year, I just really want to be able to hold your hand in public"
That really broke my heart because I realized every time he tried to hold my hand when we were out, I would pull my hand away. I did so because I was scared. Some years ago, we held hands and some asshole starting screaming "faggot!!" at us. I didn't want the same thing to happen again. I feared for my own safety and his...and I live in fucking california, a pretty liberal state.
Know what I told my bf? "We can hold hands, but I prefer we don't do it near where we live. I don't want you to get hurt."
Kudos for TL for having this banner today.
I really feel safe in this website.
Thanks for sharing your story, it was quite touching. I'm really glad to see that you feel welcome here. I hope that eventually it'll be the same in the world outside of TL.net.
Damn, that is a strong story. You don't need to be gay to be moved by that. Why the fuck should any person have to deal with that? Every single person should be in favor of equality. TL showing support in a small way shouldn't be viewed as radical or even questionable. It should be viewed as a no-brainer. If there's an opportunity to raise awareness to many thousands of site viewers about a serious equality issue very easily, such as TL adding colors to a banner, then this opportunity should be seized and not criticized at all. Criticisms against homosexuality are religious and irrational
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