On June 25 2013 08:18 Maxd11 wrote: So this is just TL showing support for the LGBT community? And the thread turns into this?
This happens in every thread about gay or trans* people to be honest. Unfortunately, there's still work to be done. But on the bright side, there are *a lot* of people that have shown their support.
On June 25 2013 07:06 Zenocide wrote: I have no problems with gay people except the flaming ones who feel the need to shove it in your face, also the ones who feel the need to talk "gay". Can't you just act normal and keep your sexuality to yourself?
Can you keep your straight mannerisms to yourself? No? Because that's how you are and you're fortunate enough to have your thing be the majority thing so you don't get confronted by how ridiculous it is to tell a gay guy to stop acting so gay. This is why people bring up privilege, it's because of demands to be normal and accept the status quo when the status quo being demanded happens to be exactly what the guy doing the demanding does anyway.
I have gay neighbors and you would never know it because they act like most normal people. I also had a conversation about this very topic, and they felt embarrassed by the fact that some of the homosexual community feel the need show the gayness off to the world as if they are special people. I believe that once more people are more accepting of gays that maybe they will lose the act.
When you learn that "i know someone who" is an unacceptable way to talk about an issue, you will sound a lot smarter. Until then, you sound stupid.
What is with the constant name calling to anyone with a different viewpoint, and I even support gay rights. And sure thats fine if you don't believe that I live next to gay neighbors, doesn't change the fact that I actually do.
T
I believe you do. However, you need to understand that when you use anecdotal evidence to discuss societal issues, it is unacceptable. The experiences of one person cannot be used to speak for an issue as a whole. That is why you are dumb.
Why are you calling that anecdotal evidence? I'm not trying to prove a fact, I was just simply explaining my personal opinion. Not once did I say anything as 100% fact or speak to the gay rights issue as a whole, in which I do support.
If you don't want your opinions or yourself to be judged I suggest you keep them to yourself. If you voice them then people will respond.
That's fine, judge away. I just would like think people on here would be kind enough to not name call when someone is explaining their opinion. Is that too much to ask?
You are allowed to name call or be condescending if you hold the majority opinion. One of the unwritten rules. Just accuse them of privilege, since they don't have to fear retribution for stating their opinions.
On June 25 2013 07:44 Manifesto7 wrote: Yawn at the sheeple...
... get off of the site and never come back. Don't want you, don't need you.
I'm sorry but as both a mod and a poster I've never found you to be a positive contributor to this website. You never seem to handle your duties or any particular subject with class. At some point you're going to have to realize that lowering yourself to the level of internet posters you dislike isn't going to solve any problems.
So as to not veer completely off-topic, though, I just want to say that I found it incredibly amusing to read the first page of this thread, then the last. Emblematic of "internet forum", I suppose.
I don't know who you are.
People where discussing if it is constructive for the discussion to use terms like "privileged white straight male" and then you enter the scene and start insulting people by calling them "sheeple" and "fuck you". That's quite an anti-timing, don't you think?
It's not up to me to judge moderators since I'm just another generic 1k posts guy and you the mighty manifesto. But I'm quite glad not every mod has such emotional outburst like you do.
Click his profile, kid. He isn't a mod. Manifesto-Prime if we wanted. He gives two shits about you and your feelings. Really, he is a mirror of how the rest of the world feels about all of us and our feelings.
On June 25 2013 08:11 neoghaleon55 wrote: I've been debating whether or not to post this all morning, but now I think I should.
A lot of you are using the argument "why should gay people get the rainbow banner this week," the idea of privilege and "being gay is nothing special and isn't a big issue anymore." I assure you, being gay still carries a heavy connotation in today's society.
Being a contributor of this website for long while now, I want to share a short experience of mine.
Two weeks ago, I was planning an anniversary with my boyfriend of 6 years. I asked him what he wanted, usually we give each other video games. You know what he said?
"I don't want anything this year, I just really want to be able to hold your hand in public"
That really broke my heart because I realized every time he tried to hold my hand when we were out, I would pull my hand away. I did so because I was scared. Some years ago, we held hands and some asshole starting screaming "faggot!!" at us. I didn't want the same thing to happen again. I feared for my own safety and his...and I live in fucking california, a pretty liberal state.
Know what I told my bf? "We can hold hands, but I prefer we don't do it near where we live. I don't want you to get hurt."
Kudos for TL for having this banner today. I really feel safe in this website.
While you all bicker, you gloss over why shit like a simple rainbow horse is still important, and it's stuff like this post.
I was in Paris a couple of weeks ago and I was frightened by all the hate against gay people I saw there because of the recent legalization of gay marriage.
I don't know if this is off topic. (What is the topic anyway?) But this Australian gay marriage ad gets to me every time and I felt like sharing it.
On June 25 2013 08:27 Elroi wrote: I was in Paris a couple of weeks ago and I was frightened by all the hate against gay people I saw there because of the recent legalization of gay marriage.
I was extremely surprised of the reaction in France. I guess I just had a much too rosy picture of that "liberal" nation.
On June 25 2013 07:06 Zenocide wrote: I have no problems with gay people except the flaming ones who feel the need to shove it in your face, also the ones who feel the need to talk "gay". Can't you just act normal and keep your sexuality to yourself?
Can you keep your straight mannerisms to yourself? No? Because that's how you are and you're fortunate enough to have your thing be the majority thing so you don't get confronted by how ridiculous it is to tell a gay guy to stop acting so gay. This is why people bring up privilege, it's because of demands to be normal and accept the status quo when the status quo being demanded happens to be exactly what the guy doing the demanding does anyway.
I have gay neighbors and you would never know it because they act like most normal people. I also had a conversation about this very topic, and they felt embarrassed by the fact that some of the homosexual community feel the need show the gayness off to the world as if they are special people. I believe that once more people are more accepting of gays that maybe they will lose the act.
When you learn that "i know someone who" is an unacceptable way to talk about an issue, you will sound a lot smarter. Until then, you sound stupid.
What is with the constant name calling to anyone with a different viewpoint, and I even support gay rights. And sure thats fine if you don't believe that I live next to gay neighbors, doesn't change the fact that I actually do.
T
I believe you do. However, you need to understand that when you use anecdotal evidence to discuss societal issues, it is unacceptable. The experiences of one person cannot be used to speak for an issue as a whole. That is why you are dumb.
Why are you calling that anecdotal evidence? I'm not trying to prove a fact, I was just simply explaining my personal opinion. Not once did I say anything as 100% fact or speak to the gay rights issue as a whole, in which I do support.
If you don't want your opinions or yourself to be judged I suggest you keep them to yourself. If you voice them then people will respond.
That's fine, judge away. I just would like think people on here would be kind enough to not name call when someone is explaining their opinion. Is that too much to ask?
If I think your opinion is dumb and you provide crappy evidence to back it up, I am likely to call you dumb.
I don't think personal experiences are a crappy way to support your own some of your opinions.
On June 25 2013 08:27 Elroi wrote: I was in Paris a couple of weeks ago and I was frightened by all the hate against gay people I saw there because of the recent legalization of gay marriage.
I was extremely surprised of the reaction in France. I guess I just had a much too rosy picture of that "liberal" nation.
I'd love to remember where I found it so I could show you, but there was a map regarding attitudes towards homosexuality in Europe, and France came out absolutely terribly. It was very surprising.
On June 25 2013 08:27 Elroi wrote: I was in Paris a couple of weeks ago and I was frightened by all the hate against gay people I saw there because of the recent legalization of gay marriage.
I was extremely surprised of the reaction in France. I guess I just had a much too rosy picture of that "liberal" nation.
Yeah, they are about as progressive as all of Europe on that front. Which is to say they are just as super racist and homophobic as the US is. No on is special, every nation has its flaws.
On June 25 2013 07:28 KwarK wrote: [quote] Can you keep your straight mannerisms to yourself? No? Because that's how you are and you're fortunate enough to have your thing be the majority thing so you don't get confronted by how ridiculous it is to tell a gay guy to stop acting so gay. This is why people bring up privilege, it's because of demands to be normal and accept the status quo when the status quo being demanded happens to be exactly what the guy doing the demanding does anyway.
I have gay neighbors and you would never know it because they act like most normal people. I also had a conversation about this very topic, and they felt embarrassed by the fact that some of the homosexual community feel the need show the gayness off to the world as if they are special people. I believe that once more people are more accepting of gays that maybe they will lose the act.
When you learn that "i know someone who" is an unacceptable way to talk about an issue, you will sound a lot smarter. Until then, you sound stupid.
What is with the constant name calling to anyone with a different viewpoint, and I even support gay rights. And sure thats fine if you don't believe that I live next to gay neighbors, doesn't change the fact that I actually do.
T
I believe you do. However, you need to understand that when you use anecdotal evidence to discuss societal issues, it is unacceptable. The experiences of one person cannot be used to speak for an issue as a whole. That is why you are dumb.
Why are you calling that anecdotal evidence? I'm not trying to prove a fact, I was just simply explaining my personal opinion. Not once did I say anything as 100% fact or speak to the gay rights issue as a whole, in which I do support.
If you don't want your opinions or yourself to be judged I suggest you keep them to yourself. If you voice them then people will respond.
That's fine, judge away. I just would like think people on here would be kind enough to not name call when someone is explaining their opinion. Is that too much to ask?
If I think your opinion is dumb and you provide crappy evidence to back it up, I am likely to call you dumb.
I don't think personal experiences are a crappy way to support your own some of your opinions.
My experience talking to you is a great way to form an opinion on your intelligence but a shitty way to form an opinion on tl. Likewise your experience talking to your neighbours is a shitty way to form an opinion on homosexuality within society.
the only misgivings about this I had were that it seems like an easy but empty gesture, the equivalent of 'so brave' on reddit. but the fact that there's so much shit in this thread proves that it is, in fact, brave, so I'm okay with it.
On June 25 2013 07:28 KwarK wrote: [quote] Can you keep your straight mannerisms to yourself? No? Because that's how you are and you're fortunate enough to have your thing be the majority thing so you don't get confronted by how ridiculous it is to tell a gay guy to stop acting so gay. This is why people bring up privilege, it's because of demands to be normal and accept the status quo when the status quo being demanded happens to be exactly what the guy doing the demanding does anyway.
I have gay neighbors and you would never know it because they act like most normal people. I also had a conversation about this very topic, and they felt embarrassed by the fact that some of the homosexual community feel the need show the gayness off to the world as if they are special people. I believe that once more people are more accepting of gays that maybe they will lose the act.
When you learn that "i know someone who" is an unacceptable way to talk about an issue, you will sound a lot smarter. Until then, you sound stupid.
What is with the constant name calling to anyone with a different viewpoint, and I even support gay rights. And sure thats fine if you don't believe that I live next to gay neighbors, doesn't change the fact that I actually do.
T
I believe you do. However, you need to understand that when you use anecdotal evidence to discuss societal issues, it is unacceptable. The experiences of one person cannot be used to speak for an issue as a whole. That is why you are dumb.
Why are you calling that anecdotal evidence? I'm not trying to prove a fact, I was just simply explaining my personal opinion. Not once did I say anything as 100% fact or speak to the gay rights issue as a whole, in which I do support.
If you don't want your opinions or yourself to be judged I suggest you keep them to yourself. If you voice them then people will respond.
That's fine, judge away. I just would like think people on here would be kind enough to not name call when someone is explaining their opinion. Is that too much to ask?
If I think your opinion is dumb and you provide crappy evidence to back it up, I am likely to call you dumb.
I don't think personal experiences are a crappy way to support your own some of your opinions.
Any argument that starts with "Well I have these gay friends," might as well end with "And that justifies my opinion on why I don't like BLANK". Its one step away from "I know lots of gay people. My garbage man is gay and I even tip him".
On June 25 2013 07:06 Zenocide wrote: I have no problems with gay people except the flaming ones who feel the need to shove it in your face, also the ones who feel the need to talk "gay". Can't you just act normal and keep your sexuality to yourself?
Can you keep your straight mannerisms to yourself? No? Because that's how you are and you're fortunate enough to have your thing be the majority thing so you don't get confronted by how ridiculous it is to tell a gay guy to stop acting so gay. This is why people bring up privilege, it's because of demands to be normal and accept the status quo when the status quo being demanded happens to be exactly what the guy doing the demanding does anyway.
I have gay neighbors and you would never know it because they act like most normal people. I also had a conversation about this very topic, and they felt embarrassed by the fact that some of the homosexual community feel the need show the gayness off to the world as if they are special people. I believe that once more people are more accepting of gays that maybe they will lose the act.
When you learn that "i know someone who" is an unacceptable way to talk about an issue, you will sound a lot smarter. Until then, you sound stupid.
What is with the constant name calling to anyone with a different viewpoint, and I even support gay rights. And sure thats fine if you don't believe that I live next to gay neighbors, doesn't change the fact that I actually do.
T
I believe you do. However, you need to understand that when you use anecdotal evidence to discuss societal issues, it is unacceptable. The experiences of one person cannot be used to speak for an issue as a whole. That is why you are dumb.
Why are you calling that anecdotal evidence? I'm not trying to prove a fact, I was just simply explaining my personal opinion. Not once did I say anything as 100% fact or speak to the gay rights issue as a whole, in which I do support.
If you don't want your opinions or yourself to be judged I suggest you keep them to yourself. If you voice them then people will respond.
That's fine, judge away. I just would like think people on here would be kind enough to not name call when someone is explaining their opinion. Is that too much to ask?
You are allowed to name call or be condescending if you hold the majority opinion. One of the unwritten rules. Just accuse them of privilege, since they don't have to fear retribution for stating their opinions.
Actually it's more like when you have evidence to back your claim and the opposing side has none. For example, you can feel free to say that the holocaust was a hoax on here (I've seen it at least three times). Unfortunately, most people aren't dumb enough to buy the one poorly done study by a guy with a history of doing shitty studies to gain notoriety.
The issue basically boils down to 1. Does adding this law add to the principles of freedom and equality? 2. If #1 is yes, does this law bear the possibility of having significant negative effects on our country? 3. If #2 is no, will this law be difficult to implement? 4. If #3 is no, then you don't have any ground to stand on.
On June 25 2013 07:16 ZenithM wrote: I like how slowly even mods are contributing to making us feel guilty for being "privileged". This fucking "white straight male are privileged" is so simple-minded, like human beings can be defined by a vector of their color, sexual orientation and gender only. What if I never had parents, am I privileged now too? What if I have dyslexia and can't read or speak correctly? Stop trying to put people in boxes, and stop feeling proud because you defend the other box. Boxes are precisely what needs to go away.
You don't get it. You're not privileged in every term of the sens. At the basis, it's just that if you're straight, you had the privilege of never hiding your orientation, never having to hide who you are, etc. Or your cis, you had the privilege to live your life as your preferred gender. It's just privilege regarding your gender identity or sexual orientation,
That's all there is to it, not about if you're poor or not. That's irrelevant here, of course a rich gay person have some privilege that you do not as a poor straight guy.
Lol, that's not what is being said here dude. They're combining features like "white+male+heterosexual" make you "more privileged" than "white+male" only. I'm just saying that doesn't work that way. This "privileged in respect to X" is dumb anyway, so yeah I don't get it. I couldn't care less that I'm black or white if I'm deaf and blind.
It's not dumb, because if you are deaf and blind and black, it suddenly matters when a deaf/blind white guy is treated better than you simply for being white. This shit happens all the time, and it's why "X Privilege" concepts exist and are studied.
But what does calling it a "privilege" accomplish? That's my problem with it. This word sounds like you should take away from the privileged to give to the unfavored, Robin Hood-style, or privileged people should feel guilty or unfavored people should be resentful or should revolt themselves or make excuses for their shortcomings (because they're not privileged like the others) or something.
I get what you are saying, but pointing out privilege is just to make people aware on how different your life can be if you happen to of a different sexual orientation or trans*.
The end goal is obviously that will be no difference, but we're not there yet.
I think that you would make the point much better if you would post a list with various problems that are specific to trans or gay people. I don't see anything constructive in adding "privileged white straight male" somewhere into that.
Are you serious? Lakarah posted as MASSIVE list earlier in the thread. I will see if I can find it.
I have gay neighbors and you would never know it because they act like most normal people. I also had a conversation about this very topic, and they felt embarrassed by the fact that some of the homosexual community feel the need show the gayness off to the world as if they are special people. I believe that once more people are more accepting of gays that maybe they will lose the act.
When you learn that "i know someone who" is an unacceptable way to talk about an issue, you will sound a lot smarter. Until then, you sound stupid.
What is with the constant name calling to anyone with a different viewpoint, and I even support gay rights. And sure thats fine if you don't believe that I live next to gay neighbors, doesn't change the fact that I actually do.
T
I believe you do. However, you need to understand that when you use anecdotal evidence to discuss societal issues, it is unacceptable. The experiences of one person cannot be used to speak for an issue as a whole. That is why you are dumb.
Why are you calling that anecdotal evidence? I'm not trying to prove a fact, I was just simply explaining my personal opinion. Not once did I say anything as 100% fact or speak to the gay rights issue as a whole, in which I do support.
If you don't want your opinions or yourself to be judged I suggest you keep them to yourself. If you voice them then people will respond.
That's fine, judge away. I just would like think people on here would be kind enough to not name call when someone is explaining their opinion. Is that too much to ask?
If I think your opinion is dumb and you provide crappy evidence to back it up, I am likely to call you dumb.
I don't think personal experiences are a crappy way to support your own some of your opinions.
My experience talking to you is a great way to form an opinion on your intelligence but a shitty way to form an opinion on tl. Likewise your experience talking to your neighbours is a shitty way to form an opinion on homosexuality within society.
But he is not forming an opinion on homosexuality on society he is stating that he dosent like how certain homosexuals act. Or am i missing something here?
On June 25 2013 08:27 Elroi wrote: I was in Paris a couple of weeks ago and I was frightened by all the hate against gay people I saw there because of the recent legalization of gay marriage.
I was extremely surprised of the reaction in France. I guess I just had a much too rosy picture of that "liberal" nation.
Yeah, they are about as progressive as all of Europe on that front. Which is to say they are just as super racist and homophobic as the US is. No on is special, every nation has its flaws.
I am actually midly offended that you would compare US to a country such as Denmark in this regard. US is literally decades, yes decades, behind when it comes to homosexuals rights. 24 years to be exact.
EPT
