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Osaka27179 Posts
On June 25 2013 07:55 lolmlg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 07:44 Manifesto7 wrote:
Yawn at the sheeple...
... get off of the site and never come back. Don't want you, don't need you. I'm sorry but as both a mod and a poster I've never found you to be a positive contributor to this website. You never seem to handle your duties or any particular subject with class. At some point you're going to have to realize that lowering yourself to the level of internet posters you dislike isn't going to solve any problems. So as to not veer completely off-topic, though, I just want to say that I found it incredibly amusing to read the first page of this thread, then the last. Emblematic of "internet forum", I suppose.
I don't know who you are.
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On June 25 2013 07:53 Shodaa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 07:47 ZenithM wrote:On June 25 2013 07:31 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 25 2013 07:26 ZenithM wrote:On June 25 2013 07:21 Shodaa wrote:On June 25 2013 07:16 ZenithM wrote:
I like how slowly even mods are contributing to making us feel guilty for being "privileged". This fucking "white straight male are privileged" is so simple-minded, like human beings can be defined by a vector of their color, sexual orientation and gender only. What if I never had parents, am I privileged now too? What if I have dyslexia and can't read or speak correctly?
Stop trying to put people in boxes, and stop feeling proud because you defend the other box. Boxes are precisely what needs to go away. You don't get it. You're not privileged in every term of the sens. At the basis, it's just that if you're straight, you had the privilege of never hiding your orientation, never having to hide who you are, etc. Or your cis, you had the privilege to live your life as your preferred gender. It's just privilege regarding your gender identity or sexual orientation, That's all there is to it, not about if you're poor or not. That's irrelevant here, of course a rich gay person have some privilege that you do not as a poor straight guy. Lol, that's not what is being said here dude. They're combining features like "white+male+heterosexual" make you "more privileged" than "white+male" only. I'm just saying that doesn't work that way. This "privileged in respect to X" is dumb anyway, so yeah I don't get it. I couldn't care less that I'm black or white if I'm deaf and blind. It's not dumb, because if you are deaf and blind and black, it suddenly matters when a deaf/blind white guy is treated better than you simply for being white. This shit happens all the time, and it's why "X Privilege" concepts exist and are studied. But what does calling it a "privilege" accomplish? That's my problem with it. This word sounds like you should take away from the privileged to give to the unfavored, Robin Hood-style, or privileged people should feel guilty or unfavored people should be resentful or should revolt themselves or make excuses for their shortcomings (because they're not privileged like the others) or something. I get what you are saying, but pointing out privilege is just to make people aware on how different your life can be if you happen to of a different sexual orientation or trans*. The end goal is obviously that will be no difference, but we're not there yet.
I guess.
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On June 25 2013 07:55 lolmlg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 07:44 Manifesto7 wrote:
Yawn at the sheeple...
... get off of the site and never come back. Don't want you, don't need you. I'm sorry but as both a mod and a poster I've never found you to be a positive contributor to this website. You never seem to handle your duties or any particular subject with class. At some point you're going to have to realize that lowering yourself to the level of internet posters you dislike isn't going to solve any problems. So as to not veer completely off-topic, though, I just want to say that I found it incredibly amusing to read the first page of this thread, then the last. Emblematic of "internet forum", I suppose.
Lol, wow. I came here in 2011 and even I know Festo is. Get yor learn on son.
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On June 25 2013 08:01 Uncultured wrote:
I think it's cool that TL is willing to put itself out there. I don't really understand why companies do this, other than for publicity, however. And in that manner I think it's a cheap grab at attention.
Pride/Rainbows etc campaings probably gives lots of positive feedback thus generates $$$, companies rarely do anything for other reason than money and if they do they are doin it wrong.
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so, who's winning the TL-insiders/mod betting pool of "how many pages will this thread get"?
can't help but feel you guys saw this coming rofl
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United States44402 Posts
On June 25 2013 08:07 Bore wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 08:01 Uncultured wrote:
I think it's cool that TL is willing to put itself out there. I don't really understand why companies do this, other than for publicity, however. And in that manner I think it's a cheap grab at attention. Pride/Rainbows etc campaings probably gives lots of positive feedback thus generates $$$, companies rarely do anything for other reason than money and if they do they are doin it wrong.
Our values haven't changed since we had a dozen users and no money.
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On June 25 2013 07:53 Shodaa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 07:47 ZenithM wrote:On June 25 2013 07:31 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 25 2013 07:26 ZenithM wrote:On June 25 2013 07:21 Shodaa wrote:On June 25 2013 07:16 ZenithM wrote:
I like how slowly even mods are contributing to making us feel guilty for being "privileged". This fucking "white straight male are privileged" is so simple-minded, like human beings can be defined by a vector of their color, sexual orientation and gender only. What if I never had parents, am I privileged now too? What if I have dyslexia and can't read or speak correctly?
Stop trying to put people in boxes, and stop feeling proud because you defend the other box. Boxes are precisely what needs to go away. You don't get it. You're not privileged in every term of the sens. At the basis, it's just that if you're straight, you had the privilege of never hiding your orientation, never having to hide who you are, etc. Or your cis, you had the privilege to live your life as your preferred gender. It's just privilege regarding your gender identity or sexual orientation, That's all there is to it, not about if you're poor or not. That's irrelevant here, of course a rich gay person have some privilege that you do not as a poor straight guy. Lol, that's not what is being said here dude. They're combining features like "white+male+heterosexual" make you "more privileged" than "white+male" only. I'm just saying that doesn't work that way. This "privileged in respect to X" is dumb anyway, so yeah I don't get it. I couldn't care less that I'm black or white if I'm deaf and blind. It's not dumb, because if you are deaf and blind and black, it suddenly matters when a deaf/blind white guy is treated better than you simply for being white. This shit happens all the time, and it's why "X Privilege" concepts exist and are studied. But what does calling it a "privilege" accomplish? That's my problem with it. This word sounds like you should take away from the privileged to give to the unfavored, Robin Hood-style, or privileged people should feel guilty or unfavored people should be resentful or should revolt themselves or make excuses for their shortcomings (because they're not privileged like the others) or something. I get what you are saying, but pointing out privilege is just to make people aware on how different your life can be if you happen to of a different sexual orientation or trans*. The end goal is obviously that will be no difference, but we're not there yet.
That may be true, but don't expecting a positive response. People don't like being told "You're life was so much easier than mine," even if it is true.
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On June 25 2013 08:01 Manifesto7 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 07:54 Zenocide wrote:On June 25 2013 07:50 Manifesto7 wrote:On June 25 2013 07:44 Zenocide wrote:On June 25 2013 07:28 KwarK wrote:On June 25 2013 07:06 Zenocide wrote:
I have no problems with gay people except the flaming ones who feel the need to shove it in your face, also the ones who feel the need to talk "gay". Can't you just act normal and keep your sexuality to yourself? Can you keep your straight mannerisms to yourself? No? Because that's how you are and you're fortunate enough to have your thing be the majority thing so you don't get confronted by how ridiculous it is to tell a gay guy to stop acting so gay. This is why people bring up privilege, it's because of demands to be normal and accept the status quo when the status quo being demanded happens to be exactly what the guy doing the demanding does anyway. I have gay neighbors and you would never know it because they act like most normal people. I also had a conversation about this very topic, and they felt embarrassed by the fact that some of the homosexual community feel the need show the gayness off to the world as if they are special people. I believe that once more people are more accepting of gays that maybe they will lose the act. When you learn that "i know someone who" is an unacceptable way to talk about an issue, you will sound a lot smarter. Until then, you sound stupid. What is with the constant name calling to anyone with a different viewpoint, and I even support gay rights. And sure thats fine if you don't believe that I live next to gay neighbors, doesn't change the fact that I actually do. I believe you do. However, you need to understand that when you use anecdotal evidence to discuss societal issues, it is unacceptable. The experiences of one person cannot be used to speak for an issue as a whole. That is why you are dumb.
Why are you calling that anecdotal evidence? I'm not trying to prove a fact, I was just simply explaining my personal opinion. Not once did I say anything as 100% fact or speak to the gay rights issue as a whole, in which I do support.
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United States31 Posts
I think the point about flamboyancy is one that doesn't get enough thought put into it. I certainly don't believe that it's an act or anything like that, but I do think it's unfortunate that acting in such a way has become the factor in determining who is gay or not.
The problem with that is that society has made the connection that flamboyant = gay and that's the only way you ever get to assume these kinds of things. You talk to the tons of masculine or "normal"-acting gay folk without knowing because their sexuality as a subject never gets brought up. So the stereotype gets reinforced pretty heavily because homosexuality is able to be hidden, unlike skin color, race, etc.
Because society assumes that all flamboyant people are gay, that's a huge majority of the exposure to "known" homosexuals that people get.
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I've been debating whether or not to post this all morning, but now I think I should.
A lot of you are using the argument "why should gay people get the rainbow banner this week," the idea of privilege and "being gay is nothing special and isn't a big issue anymore." I assure you, being gay still carries a heavy connotation in today's society.
Being a contributor of this website for long while now, I want to share a short experience of mine.
Two weeks ago, I was planning an anniversary with my boyfriend of 6 years. I asked him what he wanted, usually we give each other video games. You know what he said?
"I don't want anything this year, I just really want to be able to hold your hand in public"
That really broke my heart because I realized every time he tried to hold my hand when we were out, I would pull my hand away. I did so because I was scared. Some years ago, we held hands and some asshole starting screaming "faggot!!" at us. I didn't want the same thing to happen again. I feared for my own safety and his...and I live in fucking california, a pretty liberal state.
Know what I told my bf? "We can hold hands, but I prefer we don't do it near where we live. I don't want you to get hurt."
Kudos for TL for having this banner today.
I really feel safe in this website.
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United States44402 Posts
On June 25 2013 08:10 Zenocide wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 08:01 Manifesto7 wrote:On June 25 2013 07:54 Zenocide wrote:On June 25 2013 07:50 Manifesto7 wrote:On June 25 2013 07:44 Zenocide wrote:On June 25 2013 07:28 KwarK wrote:On June 25 2013 07:06 Zenocide wrote:
I have no problems with gay people except the flaming ones who feel the need to shove it in your face, also the ones who feel the need to talk "gay". Can't you just act normal and keep your sexuality to yourself? Can you keep your straight mannerisms to yourself? No? Because that's how you are and you're fortunate enough to have your thing be the majority thing so you don't get confronted by how ridiculous it is to tell a gay guy to stop acting so gay. This is why people bring up privilege, it's because of demands to be normal and accept the status quo when the status quo being demanded happens to be exactly what the guy doing the demanding does anyway. I have gay neighbors and you would never know it because they act like most normal people. I also had a conversation about this very topic, and they felt embarrassed by the fact that some of the homosexual community feel the need show the gayness off to the world as if they are special people. I believe that once more people are more accepting of gays that maybe they will lose the act. When you learn that "i know someone who" is an unacceptable way to talk about an issue, you will sound a lot smarter. Until then, you sound stupid. What is with the constant name calling to anyone with a different viewpoint, and I even support gay rights. And sure thats fine if you don't believe that I live next to gay neighbors, doesn't change the fact that I actually do. I believe you do. However, you need to understand that when you use anecdotal evidence to discuss societal issues, it is unacceptable. The experiences of one person cannot be used to speak for an issue as a whole. That is why you are dumb. Why are you calling that anecdotal evidence? I'm not trying to prove a fact, I was just simply explaining my personal opinion. Not once did I say anything as 100% fact or speak to the gay rights issue as a whole, in which I do support.
If you don't want your opinions or yourself to be judged I suggest you keep them to yourself. If you voice them then people will respond.
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I personally don't really care for this. I don't see how it is really relevant to the site as a whole. HQ maybe, but not the site. I'm glad that the staff made sure it wasn't made into an obstructing banner though. Just color changes in a minuscule area of the banner. Not the whole site or even the whole banner either.
as for the discussion, Mani just keep doing what you do. You know you're doing it right as long as Plexa still loves you.
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On June 25 2013 08:10 Zenocide wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 08:01 Manifesto7 wrote:On June 25 2013 07:54 Zenocide wrote:On June 25 2013 07:50 Manifesto7 wrote:On June 25 2013 07:44 Zenocide wrote:On June 25 2013 07:28 KwarK wrote:On June 25 2013 07:06 Zenocide wrote:
I have no problems with gay people except the flaming ones who feel the need to shove it in your face, also the ones who feel the need to talk "gay". Can't you just act normal and keep your sexuality to yourself? Can you keep your straight mannerisms to yourself? No? Because that's how you are and you're fortunate enough to have your thing be the majority thing so you don't get confronted by how ridiculous it is to tell a gay guy to stop acting so gay. This is why people bring up privilege, it's because of demands to be normal and accept the status quo when the status quo being demanded happens to be exactly what the guy doing the demanding does anyway. I have gay neighbors and you would never know it because they act like most normal people. I also had a conversation about this very topic, and they felt embarrassed by the fact that some of the homosexual community feel the need show the gayness off to the world as if they are special people. I believe that once more people are more accepting of gays that maybe they will lose the act. When you learn that "i know someone who" is an unacceptable way to talk about an issue, you will sound a lot smarter. Until then, you sound stupid. What is with the constant name calling to anyone with a different viewpoint, and I even support gay rights. And sure thats fine if you don't believe that I live next to gay neighbors, doesn't change the fact that I actually do. I believe you do. However, you need to understand that when you use anecdotal evidence to discuss societal issues, it is unacceptable. The experiences of one person cannot be used to speak for an issue as a whole. That is why you are dumb. Why are you calling that anecdotal evidence? I'm not trying to prove a fact, I was just simply explaining my personal opinion. Not once did I say anything as 100% fact or speak to the gay rights issue as a whole, in which I do support.
Anecdotal evidence = personal experience used to prove a point, even if it isn't true for all situations. It is by nature, not fact.
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On June 25 2013 08:08 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 08:07 Bore wrote:On June 25 2013 08:01 Uncultured wrote:
I think it's cool that TL is willing to put itself out there. I don't really understand why companies do this, other than for publicity, however. And in that manner I think it's a cheap grab at attention. Pride/Rainbows etc campaings probably gives lots of positive feedback thus generates $$$, companies rarely do anything for other reason than money and if they do they are doin it wrong. Our values haven't changed since we had a dozen users and no money.
I guess i shoud have clarified that i meant "real" companies that exist to generate wealth. Not TL.
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On June 25 2013 08:08 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 08:07 Bore wrote:On June 25 2013 08:01 Uncultured wrote:
I think it's cool that TL is willing to put itself out there. I don't really understand why companies do this, other than for publicity, however. And in that manner I think it's a cheap grab at attention. Pride/Rainbows etc campaings probably gives lots of positive feedback thus generates $$$, companies rarely do anything for other reason than money and if they do they are doin it wrong. Our values haven't changed since we had a dozen users and no money.
lol common now bud, you havent been around that long, and besides that your also wrong about the values part. Im not saying its for the worse, alot of us were bunch of x17ers who spouted all kinds of homophobia and racism. This has changed, its good.
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On June 25 2013 07:53 Shodaa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 07:47 ZenithM wrote:On June 25 2013 07:31 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 25 2013 07:26 ZenithM wrote:On June 25 2013 07:21 Shodaa wrote:On June 25 2013 07:16 ZenithM wrote:
I like how slowly even mods are contributing to making us feel guilty for being "privileged". This fucking "white straight male are privileged" is so simple-minded, like human beings can be defined by a vector of their color, sexual orientation and gender only. What if I never had parents, am I privileged now too? What if I have dyslexia and can't read or speak correctly?
Stop trying to put people in boxes, and stop feeling proud because you defend the other box. Boxes are precisely what needs to go away. You don't get it. You're not privileged in every term of the sens. At the basis, it's just that if you're straight, you had the privilege of never hiding your orientation, never having to hide who you are, etc. Or your cis, you had the privilege to live your life as your preferred gender. It's just privilege regarding your gender identity or sexual orientation, That's all there is to it, not about if you're poor or not. That's irrelevant here, of course a rich gay person have some privilege that you do not as a poor straight guy. Lol, that's not what is being said here dude. They're combining features like "white+male+heterosexual" make you "more privileged" than "white+male" only. I'm just saying that doesn't work that way. This "privileged in respect to X" is dumb anyway, so yeah I don't get it. I couldn't care less that I'm black or white if I'm deaf and blind. It's not dumb, because if you are deaf and blind and black, it suddenly matters when a deaf/blind white guy is treated better than you simply for being white. This shit happens all the time, and it's why "X Privilege" concepts exist and are studied. But what does calling it a "privilege" accomplish? That's my problem with it. This word sounds like you should take away from the privileged to give to the unfavored, Robin Hood-style, or privileged people should feel guilty or unfavored people should be resentful or should revolt themselves or make excuses for their shortcomings (because they're not privileged like the others) or something. I get what you are saying, but pointing out privilege is just to make people aware on how different your life can be if you happen to of a different sexual orientation or trans*. The end goal is obviously that will be no difference, but we're not there yet.
I think that you would make the point much better if you would post a list with various problems that are specific to trans or gay people. I don't see anything constructive in adding "privileged white straight male" somewhere into that.
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So this is just TL showing support for the LGBT community? And the thread turns into this? 
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On June 25 2013 08:12 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 08:10 Zenocide wrote:On June 25 2013 08:01 Manifesto7 wrote:On June 25 2013 07:54 Zenocide wrote:On June 25 2013 07:50 Manifesto7 wrote:On June 25 2013 07:44 Zenocide wrote:On June 25 2013 07:28 KwarK wrote:On June 25 2013 07:06 Zenocide wrote:
I have no problems with gay people except the flaming ones who feel the need to shove it in your face, also the ones who feel the need to talk "gay". Can't you just act normal and keep your sexuality to yourself? Can you keep your straight mannerisms to yourself? No? Because that's how you are and you're fortunate enough to have your thing be the majority thing so you don't get confronted by how ridiculous it is to tell a gay guy to stop acting so gay. This is why people bring up privilege, it's because of demands to be normal and accept the status quo when the status quo being demanded happens to be exactly what the guy doing the demanding does anyway. I have gay neighbors and you would never know it because they act like most normal people. I also had a conversation about this very topic, and they felt embarrassed by the fact that some of the homosexual community feel the need show the gayness off to the world as if they are special people. I believe that once more people are more accepting of gays that maybe they will lose the act. When you learn that "i know someone who" is an unacceptable way to talk about an issue, you will sound a lot smarter. Until then, you sound stupid. What is with the constant name calling to anyone with a different viewpoint, and I even support gay rights. And sure thats fine if you don't believe that I live next to gay neighbors, doesn't change the fact that I actually do. T I believe you do. However, you need to understand that when you use anecdotal evidence to discuss societal issues, it is unacceptable. The experiences of one person cannot be used to speak for an issue as a whole. That is why you are dumb. Why are you calling that anecdotal evidence? I'm not trying to prove a fact, I was just simply explaining my personal opinion. Not once did I say anything as 100% fact or speak to the gay rights issue as a whole, in which I do support. If you don't want your opinions or yourself to be judged I suggest you keep them to yourself. If you voice them then people will respond.
That's fine, judge away. I just would like think people on here would be kind enough to not name call when someone is explaining their opinion. Is that too much to ask?
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On June 25 2013 08:02 Manifesto7 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 07:55 lolmlg wrote:On June 25 2013 07:44 Manifesto7 wrote:
Yawn at the sheeple...
... get off of the site and never come back. Don't want you, don't need you. I'm sorry but as both a mod and a poster I've never found you to be a positive contributor to this website. You never seem to handle your duties or any particular subject with class. At some point you're going to have to realize that lowering yourself to the level of internet posters you dislike isn't going to solve any problems. So as to not veer completely off-topic, though, I just want to say that I found it incredibly amusing to read the first page of this thread, then the last. Emblematic of "internet forum", I suppose. I don't know who you are.
People where discussing if it is constructive for the discussion to use terms like "privileged white straight male" and then you enter the scene and start insulting people by calling them "sheeple" and "fuck you". That's quite an anti-timing, don't you think?
It's not up to me to judge moderators since I'm just another generic 1k posts guy and you the mighty manifesto. But I'm quite glad not every mod has such emotional outburst like you do.
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On June 25 2013 08:20 Zenocide wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 08:12 KwarK wrote:On June 25 2013 08:10 Zenocide wrote:On June 25 2013 08:01 Manifesto7 wrote:On June 25 2013 07:54 Zenocide wrote:On June 25 2013 07:50 Manifesto7 wrote:On June 25 2013 07:44 Zenocide wrote:On June 25 2013 07:28 KwarK wrote:On June 25 2013 07:06 Zenocide wrote:
I have no problems with gay people except the flaming ones who feel the need to shove it in your face, also the ones who feel the need to talk "gay". Can't you just act normal and keep your sexuality to yourself? Can you keep your straight mannerisms to yourself? No? Because that's how you are and you're fortunate enough to have your thing be the majority thing so you don't get confronted by how ridiculous it is to tell a gay guy to stop acting so gay. This is why people bring up privilege, it's because of demands to be normal and accept the status quo when the status quo being demanded happens to be exactly what the guy doing the demanding does anyway. I have gay neighbors and you would never know it because they act like most normal people. I also had a conversation about this very topic, and they felt embarrassed by the fact that some of the homosexual community feel the need show the gayness off to the world as if they are special people. I believe that once more people are more accepting of gays that maybe they will lose the act. When you learn that "i know someone who" is an unacceptable way to talk about an issue, you will sound a lot smarter. Until then, you sound stupid. What is with the constant name calling to anyone with a different viewpoint, and I even support gay rights. And sure thats fine if you don't believe that I live next to gay neighbors, doesn't change the fact that I actually do. T I believe you do. However, you need to understand that when you use anecdotal evidence to discuss societal issues, it is unacceptable. The experiences of one person cannot be used to speak for an issue as a whole. That is why you are dumb. Why are you calling that anecdotal evidence? I'm not trying to prove a fact, I was just simply explaining my personal opinion. Not once did I say anything as 100% fact or speak to the gay rights issue as a whole, in which I do support. If you don't want your opinions or yourself to be judged I suggest you keep them to yourself. If you voice them then people will respond. That's fine, judge away. I just would like think people on here would be kind enough to not name call when someone is explaining their opinion. Is that too much to ask?
If I think your opinion is dumb and you provide crappy evidence to back it up, I am likely to call you dumb.
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EPT
