On June 21 2013 05:12 Fenris420 wrote: What worries me is how easily some will judge fat people simply for being fat. Who cares why or whether it is possibly to avoid it? The underlying point is that people have different priorities, which is sort of obvious considering how easy it is to stay fit if you prefer that over other things. To me, bashing fat people is the same kind of intolerance as any other bashing of a group of people. I don't get it.
That's just human nature, which is hardly going to just change without reason. It doesn't help that individuals have some influence over their weight, compared to race and such. Makes it slightly more publicly permissible. Either way, it's human nature to judge people based on appearances, and that's not changing.
Im just interested, whats your opinion on smokers?
The parallels to smoking stick in my mind as well. Smoking is already intensely discouraged and regulated, and the lung cancer it causes is treated as a disease. I think cigarettes and shitty food are very similar in their addictive and health ruining effects. I wonder if they can or should be eradicated in the same manner.
But that's the thing, you can't get rid of lung cancer by running 4 miles a day. Yeah, I'm a fattie and I smoke (although trying to quit, kinda), and I'm well aware what I have to do to lose it and keep it off, and frankly yes, I'd rather be inside playing Magic or LoL or what the fuck ever else I want to do then getting up and sweating my ass off. I did 5 years of that sort of shit in the Army and it bored me to death. Sure, I was down to 155 and could run 10 miles no problem, but it's far more enjoyable to be 220 and sitting on my ass.
Not sure what the point of this is in response to the person you quoted. You're an overweight smoker and instead of being active you prefer playing video games. That's pretty much the stereotype of what makes someone become obese; you don't want to put in the effort to be healthy and prefer easy comforts. It's an unattractive attitude to many, and I find it justified. You might be perfectly fine with it, but people can still judge you for these negative personality traits without it being some terrible, crippling bias against your civil rights (not that you are, but others are saying this).
No, you're delusional. Having a "fantastic body" like you're talking about is NOT possible for a majority of people. Yes, being healthy is entirely possible for almost everyone, but that "perfect body" isn't.
Also, many people ARE lucky to be born with a very high metabolism, even if people do (ignorantly) credit your great shape to metabolism and not your work.
Metabolism is nice, but it's maybe 5% at most of what it takes to look great. I worked in a high end gym for many years when I was younger and saw a LOT of VERY overweight people completely change the way they looked. I saw countless people go from ~30%+ body fat to 12-18% and become wayyyyyyy more ripped than I am due to their dedication. People going from 280-330lbs down to 190-220 and looking and feeling great. Eating right and exercise under proper direction by professionals will achieve startling results every single time. There are very VERY few people who can't look DAMN good by even hollywood standards if you actually put in the work. No matter how you cut it, being overweight is a choice. I've seen the transformation in too many people with my own eyes too many times to think otherwise.
Everyone is capable of getting a run, but some people are born on third base. Others have to go through the effort of hitting a triple.
Since you're making the claim, please show some scientific proof that there is such a significant genetic/metabolic difference in a significant part of the population that it puts some people "on third base" compared to others. Unless you have a metabolic disorder or some congenital birth defect, I find it hard to take that metaphor remotely seriously.
On June 21 2013 06:03 Meatloaf wrote: I'm not overweight but recently Ive undergone a "spartan" diet consisting of whole rice 3 times a day during 5 days and supplementary whole rice "cookies" for snacks in between if youre hungry , the last 2 days you started to add some vapor cooked vegetables too)
the process was hard and at first your body gets headache from the lack of sugar (think desintoxication) but after 2 days i felt fuckin great , my body felt agile and my mind quick to react.
of course this was planned along my nutrition consultant (she advised me to do it as its good for the liver) but the best thing i took from it is realising with how little you can make a day and how most of the things we eat have sugar in one way or another , and the one telling you this was a guy (me) who put like 3 spoons of sugar in every coffee.
we eat to fill needs that we create to ourselves , its not that were hungry most of the time ; what most people with overweight needs is education about food and diet , and be willing to learn.
What do you mean with your body having headaches ? I've been cutting sugar pretty much altogether (some fruits every few days and that's it) and I've been getting weird pains in tendons and ligaments.
- There is growing evidence that once you are obese/eat unhealthy for whatever reason, it can get exponentially more difficult to stop eating. "It is similar to what happens with chronic drug abuse." This is only made worse by how companies are scientifically designing food to be addictive to the brain (dozens of articles on this subject). I remember hearing a more recent article than this one on NPR this year but I can't find it atm.
I'd be really interested in getting the opinion of somebody who is overweight (and trying to lose weight) AND who is addicted to something, like drugs or alcohol (and trying to drop it). How similar are they in difficulty? While the "withdrawals" of eating less may not be as volatile (simply feeling funny) are they as powerful a motivator to get back on?
Personally I think the strongest argument that can be given to an obese person is the life/death one. Considering the dangers of heart disease/attacks/diabetes, if you can convince somebody that they are losing weight to save their life then they have that extra motivation when they don't want to get on the treadmill or want to get that burger.
On June 21 2013 06:19 crazyweasel wrote: Capitalism made people obese, obesity is a disease, therefore capitalism is a disease.
This is some terrible logic, even by general forum standards. As for capitalism causing disease, obesity makes people less productive, so there is an economic incentive against it. Capitalism doesn't like inefficiency...
On June 21 2013 06:21 Striborg wrote: Is there somewhere I can petition to make alcoholism a disease? I don't want to feel left out.
I though alcoholism already was considered a disease.
it is by AMA standards.
"The American Medical Association (AMA) had declared that alcoholism was an illness in 1956. In 1991, The AMA further endorsed the dual classification of alcoholism by the International Classification of Diseases under both psychiatric and medical sections."
On June 21 2013 06:03 Meatloaf wrote: I'm not overweight but recently Ive undergone a "spartan" diet consisting of whole rice 3 times a day during 5 days and supplementary whole rice "cookies" for snacks in between if youre hungry , the last 2 days you started to add some vapor cooked vegetables too)
the process was hard and at first your body gets headache from the lack of sugar (think desintoxication) but after 2 days i felt fuckin great , my body felt agile and my mind quick to react.
of course this was planned along my nutrition consultant (she advised me to do it as its good for the liver) but the best thing i took from it is realising with how little you can make a day and how most of the things we eat have sugar in one way or another , and the one telling you this was a guy (me) who put like 3 spoons of sugar in every coffee.
we eat to fill needs that we create to ourselves , its not that were hungry most of the time ; what most people with overweight needs is education about food and diet , and be willing to learn.
What do you mean with your body having headaches ? I've been cutting sugar pretty much altogether (some fruits every few days and that's it) and I've been getting weird pains in tendons and ligaments.
I got this crazy headache the first two days , my Nutritionist said because of the diet making my blood pressure lower.
didnt got pains in wrists or nothing but my GF did have pain in the articulations sometimes , it really must depend on the person how the sugarless diet affects you the first days.
think that I went from sugar everyday (and i used to take a lot of it!) to none... no fruit , no nothing so the first days were hell.
On June 21 2013 06:23 nukeazerg wrote: Eating less doesn't work neither does increased exercise. Scientific peer review says there is no compelling data to support these ideas.
You may be right, but sources are a good thing in a thread like this.
On June 21 2013 06:14 Heavenlee wrote:Since you're making the claim, please show some scientific proof that there is such a significant genetic/metabolic difference in a significant part of the population that it puts some people "on third base" compared to others. Unless you have a metabolic disorder or some congenital birth defect, I find it hard to take that metaphor remotely seriously.
On June 21 2013 06:23 nukeazerg wrote: Eating less doesn't work neither does increased exercise. Scientific peer review says there is no compelling data to support these ideas.
So I just get home from the store with 2 large bags of snickers. Then I click on subscribed threads and I see this at the top and I'm like "oh right, I was posting in THAT thread before I went to the store" #FACEPALM
On June 21 2013 06:14 Heavenlee wrote: Since you're making the claim, please show some scientific proof that there is such a significant genetic/metabolic difference in a significant part of the population that it puts some people "on third base" compared to others. Unless you have a metabolic disorder or some congenital birth defect, I find it hard to take that metaphor remotely seriously.
I don't have an account to actually access these journals, but simply glancing at the abstract it does appear that at least aerobic exercise results vary greatly based on genetics. I don't know enough about medicine or biology to really argue on the topic however.
On June 21 2013 06:19 crazyweasel wrote: Capitalism made people obese, obesity is a disease, therefore capitalism is a disease.
Many poor populations have been fat eating less than 2000 calories a day.
Um, what? No.
Obesity rates correlate fairly strongly with how rich/developed a country is.
Although I'm pretty sure his point about capitalism was a joke.
I think he might be referring to urban poor populations. People suffer from a lack of available healthy food (only place to get food is convenience stores) and thus they tend to ingest a lot of fatty or high carb foods. Feel free to check me on that one, but I think that among developed countries there are high rates of obesity among those in poverty.
On June 21 2013 06:23 nukeazerg wrote: Eating less doesn't work neither does increased exercise. Scientific peer review says there is no compelling data to support these ideas.
lol. This is physically impossible.
Somebody linked this earlier. Seems like he is essentially focusing on how the caloric intake equation not telling the complete story. Only a few minutes in but seems interesting so far.
EPT
