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On June 21 2013 01:55 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 01:46 NovaTheFeared wrote:
It turns out that the person you spend the most time with is also the most likely person to commit an act of violence against you? That must be a surprising fact to all who lack critical thinking. Yes, 80% of rape victims around the world get raped for going home, not for walking down a dark alley or for wearing a short skirt. Its like the problem with rape is the fact that men rape women and not that women enjoy being themselves.
I know you want to go back to Op but this number just doesn't prove anything. This is because in a lot of societies spouse rape isn't illegal or less likely to be punished. Let alone countries like Lebanon where men can marry their victim to avoid persecution.
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On June 21 2013 03:32 Hryul wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 01:55 Thieving Magpie wrote:On June 21 2013 01:46 NovaTheFeared wrote:
It turns out that the person you spend the most time with is also the most likely person to commit an act of violence against you? That must be a surprising fact to all who lack critical thinking. Yes, 80% of rape victims around the world get raped for going home, not for walking down a dark alley or for wearing a short skirt. Its like the problem with rape is the fact that men rape women and not that women enjoy being themselves. I know you want to go back to Op but this number just doesn't prove anything. This is because in a lot of societies spouse rape isn't illegal or less likely to be punished. Let alone countries like Lebanon where men can marry their victim to avoid persecution.
So when women are raped outside of the west, it doesn't count as rape?
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On June 21 2013 03:35 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 03:32 Hryul wrote:On June 21 2013 01:55 Thieving Magpie wrote:On June 21 2013 01:46 NovaTheFeared wrote:
It turns out that the person you spend the most time with is also the most likely person to commit an act of violence against you? That must be a surprising fact to all who lack critical thinking. Yes, 80% of rape victims around the world get raped for going home, not for walking down a dark alley or for wearing a short skirt. Its like the problem with rape is the fact that men rape women and not that women enjoy being themselves. I know you want to go back to Op but this number just doesn't prove anything. This is because in a lot of societies spouse rape isn't illegal or less likely to be punished. Let alone countries like Lebanon where men can marry their victim to avoid persecution. So when women are raped outside of the west, it doesn't count as rape?
at first i wanted to write a serious response to this. but on second thought: just stop being polemic please. and discuss the OP.
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Most rape victims, in the west, are raped by people they know.
This statistic shows that when you zoom out from the west and include the rest of the world, 80% of the rapes comes from people women know.
That tells me that women aren't stupid and are more often raped by people they trust instead of some boogieman out there in the world who hides in back alleys waiting for stupid horror movie bimbos to walk to them.
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On June 21 2013 03:49 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Most rape victims, in the west, are raped by people they know.
This statistic shows that when you zoom out from the west and include the rest of the world, 80% of the rapes comes from people women know.
That tells me that women aren't stupid and are more often raped by people they trust instead of some boogieman out there in the world who hides in back alleys waiting for stupid horror movie bimbos to walk to them.
Now this is the problem: in some countries women opting for divorce can't cite "rape" as divorce reason and are stigmatized for divorce. This leads to a situation where women can't realistically avoid the rape because they are legally tied to the rapist.
And as your number originally came from the discussion of "how women can avoid being raped - don't walk down a dark road" this shows nothing.
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On June 21 2013 04:05 Hryul wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 03:49 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Most rape victims, in the west, are raped by people they know.
This statistic shows that when you zoom out from the west and include the rest of the world, 80% of the rapes comes from people women know.
That tells me that women aren't stupid and are more often raped by people they trust instead of some boogieman out there in the world who hides in back alleys waiting for stupid horror movie bimbos to walk to them. Now this is the problem: in some countries women opting for divorce can't cite "rape" as divorce reason and are stigmatized for divorce. This leads to a situation where women can't realistically avoid the rape because they are legally tied to the rapist. And as your number originally came from the discussion of "how women can avoid being raped - don't walk down a dark road" this shows nothing.
well other than the fact that women are still being unwillfully oppressed.
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On June 21 2013 04:09 ComaDose wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 04:05 Hryul wrote:On June 21 2013 03:49 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Most rape victims, in the west, are raped by people they know.
This statistic shows that when you zoom out from the west and include the rest of the world, 80% of the rapes comes from people women know.
That tells me that women aren't stupid and are more often raped by people they trust instead of some boogieman out there in the world who hides in back alleys waiting for stupid horror movie bimbos to walk to them. Now this is the problem: in some countries women opting for divorce can't cite "rape" as divorce reason and are stigmatized for divorce. This leads to a situation where women can't realistically avoid the rape because they are legally tied to the rapist. And as your number originally came from the discussion of "how women can avoid being raped - don't walk down a dark road" this shows nothing. well other than the fact that women are still being unwillfully oppressed.
well - yes. I just saw on wikipedia that 42% of women below the age of 18 are forced into a marriage on the whole of Africa. Disturbing.
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On June 21 2013 04:09 ComaDose wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 04:05 Hryul wrote:On June 21 2013 03:49 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Most rape victims, in the west, are raped by people they know.
This statistic shows that when you zoom out from the west and include the rest of the world, 80% of the rapes comes from people women know.
That tells me that women aren't stupid and are more often raped by people they trust instead of some boogieman out there in the world who hides in back alleys waiting for stupid horror movie bimbos to walk to them. Now this is the problem: in some countries women opting for divorce can't cite "rape" as divorce reason and are stigmatized for divorce. This leads to a situation where women can't realistically avoid the rape because they are legally tied to the rapist. And as your number originally came from the discussion of "how women can avoid being raped - don't walk down a dark road" this shows nothing. well other than the fact that women are still being unwillfully oppressed.
Well, sunprince would disagree with that.
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On June 21 2013 04:05 Hryul wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 03:49 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Most rape victims, in the west, are raped by people they know.
This statistic shows that when you zoom out from the west and include the rest of the world, 80% of the rapes comes from people women know.
That tells me that women aren't stupid and are more often raped by people they trust instead of some boogieman out there in the world who hides in back alleys waiting for stupid horror movie bimbos to walk to them. Now this is the problem: in some countries women opting for divorce can't cite "rape" as divorce reason and are stigmatized for divorce. This leads to a situation where women can't realistically avoid the rape because they are legally tied to the rapist. And as your number originally came from the discussion of "how women can avoid being raped - don't walk down a dark road" this shows nothing.
Um... being someone who grew up in a country where divorce was outright illegal. What people do is move out and stay with family.
The reason many don't is because rape culture normalizes rape so most of the time they get sent back to the rapist.
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On June 21 2013 05:02 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 04:05 Hryul wrote:On June 21 2013 03:49 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Most rape victims, in the west, are raped by people they know.
This statistic shows that when you zoom out from the west and include the rest of the world, 80% of the rapes comes from people women know.
That tells me that women aren't stupid and are more often raped by people they trust instead of some boogieman out there in the world who hides in back alleys waiting for stupid horror movie bimbos to walk to them. Now this is the problem: in some countries women opting for divorce can't cite "rape" as divorce reason and are stigmatized for divorce. This leads to a situation where women can't realistically avoid the rape because they are legally tied to the rapist. And as your number originally came from the discussion of "how women can avoid being raped - don't walk down a dark road" this shows nothing. The reason many don't is because rape culture normalizes rape so most of the time they get sent back to the rapist.
No. You can't say things like this. The phrase "rape culture" is a terrible abomination of deconstructionism which seeks to ascribe rape-apologism to virtually everything that exists in modern society. That's fucking retarded. There is absolutely nothing approaching what could reasonably be called "normalization" of rape in the West. The vast majority of people abhor rape and consider it one of the most vile crimes imaginable. At best you can say there is too much rape (i.e. more than none) but not that our society isd somehow encouraging it by pretending it's "normal," because that's simply, totally, utterly, and completely false.
Pre-emptively: no, rape jokes do not normalize rape; no, the low conviction rates for rapists do not normalize rape; no, questioning the veracity of a rape accusation does not normalize rape (anymore than it normalizes any other crime in which accusers are allowed to be questioned i.e. pretty much all of them). For a real example of the normalization of rape, look to certain Middle-Eastern societies which permit a husband to forcibly have sex with his wife, or to the tendency of pre-modern armies to rape conquered women with the full blessings of their leaders. That is rape normalization. Modern society does not have a "rape culture."
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On June 21 2013 07:02 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 05:02 Thieving Magpie wrote:On June 21 2013 04:05 Hryul wrote:On June 21 2013 03:49 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Most rape victims, in the west, are raped by people they know.
This statistic shows that when you zoom out from the west and include the rest of the world, 80% of the rapes comes from people women know.
That tells me that women aren't stupid and are more often raped by people they trust instead of some boogieman out there in the world who hides in back alleys waiting for stupid horror movie bimbos to walk to them. Now this is the problem: in some countries women opting for divorce can't cite "rape" as divorce reason and are stigmatized for divorce. This leads to a situation where women can't realistically avoid the rape because they are legally tied to the rapist. And as your number originally came from the discussion of "how women can avoid being raped - don't walk down a dark road" this shows nothing. The reason many don't is because rape culture normalizes rape so most of the time they get sent back to the rapist. No. You can't say things like this. The phrase "rape culture" is a terrible abomination of deconstructionism which seeks to ascribe rape-apologism to virtually everything that exists in modern society. That's fucking retarded. There is absolutely nothing approaching what could reasonably be called "normalization" of rape in the West. The vast majority of people abhor rape and consider it one of the most vile crimes imaginable. At best you can say there is too much rape (i.e. more than none) but not that our society isd somehow encouraging it by pretending it's "normal," because that's simply, totally, utterly, and completely false. Pre-emptively: no, rape jokes do not normalize rape; no, the low conviction rates for rapists do not normalize rape; no, questioning the veracity of a rape accusation does not normalize rape (anymore than it normalizes any other crime in which accusers are allowed to be questioned i.e. pretty much all of them). For a real example of the normalization of rape, look to certain Middle-Eastern societies which permit a husband to forcibly have sex with his wife, or to the tendency of pre-modern armies to rape conquered women with the full blessings of their leaders. That is rape normalization. Modern society does not have a "rape culture."
uh yeah modern society has a rape culture. just look at the replys to this thread.
There are a few things wrong with your post but I will start with the obvious one. How can you think joking about rape does not normalize it? thats pretty much exactly what it does... how can you state for certain that people knowing that rapists rarely get convicted has never influenced a rapists desision to rape?
also how can you watch modern movies of men chasing women and using their bodies to intimidate them to let them inside, get a kiss, get laid or w/e as not evidence of rape culture?
EDIT: rape culture =/= culture where rape is okay
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On June 21 2013 07:02 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 05:02 Thieving Magpie wrote:On June 21 2013 04:05 Hryul wrote:On June 21 2013 03:49 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Most rape victims, in the west, are raped by people they know.
This statistic shows that when you zoom out from the west and include the rest of the world, 80% of the rapes comes from people women know.
That tells me that women aren't stupid and are more often raped by people they trust instead of some boogieman out there in the world who hides in back alleys waiting for stupid horror movie bimbos to walk to them. Now this is the problem: in some countries women opting for divorce can't cite "rape" as divorce reason and are stigmatized for divorce. This leads to a situation where women can't realistically avoid the rape because they are legally tied to the rapist. And as your number originally came from the discussion of "how women can avoid being raped - don't walk down a dark road" this shows nothing. The reason many don't is because rape culture normalizes rape so most of the time they get sent back to the rapist. No. You can't say things like this. The phrase "rape culture" is a terrible abomination of deconstructionism which seeks to ascribe rape-apologism to virtually everything that exists in modern society. That's fucking retarded. There is absolutely nothing approaching what could reasonably be called "normalization" of rape in the West. The vast majority of people abhor rape and consider it one of the most vile crimes imaginable. At best you can say there is too much rape (i.e. more than none) but not that our society isd somehow encouraging it by pretending it's "normal," because that's simply, totally, utterly, and completely false. Pre-emptively: no, rape jokes do not normalize rape; no, the low conviction rates for rapists do not normalize rape; no, questioning the veracity of a rape accusation does not normalize rape (anymore than it normalizes any other crime in which accusers are allowed to be questioned i.e. pretty much all of them). For a real example of the normalization of rape, look to certain Middle-Eastern societies which permit a husband to forcibly have sex with his wife, or to the tendency of pre-modern armies to rape conquered women with the full blessings of their leaders. That is rape normalization. Modern society does not have a "rape culture."
Rape jokes don't normalize rape? Uhm. Ok. I don't understand that assertion at all. I think you have to explain that one. At the very least it creates a hostile environment for women and rape victims.
But have you seen some of the crazies talk about the rape problem in the military? That women should be expected to be raped in the military and other such delightful things? Of course they're crazies, but someone should talk about the crazies.
Of course most people abhor rape and such. Guess what? They abhor rape in Middle Eastern countries too. But when rape actually occurs is when the apologism starts. That's when suddenly rape is redefined, along with consent, along with flirting, along with asking for it, etc. etc. That's when a girl wearing too little clothing or wearing too much makeup or out too late at night becomes suspicious.
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What you've failed to realise with all this statistic quoting and redirection to spousal rape is that there's a very good reason people are warned about walking home late at night on their own; they're making themselves vulnerable.
I walk home alone late at night all the time and I accept the fact that if something happens very likely nobody will be there to help or even see it happen. I definitely feel a lot less safe then compared to walking down the main street on a sunny day, though thankfully I've made it home every time so far. Sometimes people don't.
Would you be happy with your young daughter walking home alone late at night? Would you use your statistics to comfort yourself knowing that it's more likely that you'll rape your own child when she gets home than some boogeyman waiting in a bush for her to come past? I think you'd still worry, but maybe I'm just afraid of the dark.
If you are even remotely realistic about this you will recognise immediately why police advise women to walk home with a friend or get a taxi rather than walk home alone; not because they don't understand rape statistics but because they understand the risks involved and that precautions are advisable.
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On June 21 2013 07:02 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 05:02 Thieving Magpie wrote:On June 21 2013 04:05 Hryul wrote:On June 21 2013 03:49 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Most rape victims, in the west, are raped by people they know.
This statistic shows that when you zoom out from the west and include the rest of the world, 80% of the rapes comes from people women know.
That tells me that women aren't stupid and are more often raped by people they trust instead of some boogieman out there in the world who hides in back alleys waiting for stupid horror movie bimbos to walk to them. Now this is the problem: in some countries women opting for divorce can't cite "rape" as divorce reason and are stigmatized for divorce. This leads to a situation where women can't realistically avoid the rape because they are legally tied to the rapist. And as your number originally came from the discussion of "how women can avoid being raped - don't walk down a dark road" this shows nothing. The reason many don't is because rape culture normalizes rape so most of the time they get sent back to the rapist. No. You can't say things like this. The phrase "rape culture" is a terrible abomination of deconstructionism which seeks to ascribe rape-apologism to virtually everything that exists in modern society. That's fucking retarded. There is absolutely nothing approaching what could reasonably be called "normalization" of rape in the West. The vast majority of people abhor rape and consider it one of the most vile crimes imaginable. At best you can say there is too much rape (i.e. more than none) but not that our society isd somehow encouraging it by pretending it's "normal," because that's simply, totally, utterly, and completely false. Pre-emptively: no, rape jokes do not normalize rape; no, the low conviction rates for rapists do not normalize rape; no, questioning the veracity of a rape accusation does not normalize rape (anymore than it normalizes any other crime in which accusers are allowed to be questioned i.e. pretty much all of them). For a real example of the normalization of rape, look to certain Middle-Eastern societies which permit a husband to forcibly have sex with his wife, or to the tendency of pre-modern armies to rape conquered women with the full blessings of their leaders. That is rape normalization. Modern society does not have a "rape culture."
Although I do believe that Rape Culture exists in the west--the conversation I was having was about him saying
"Now this is the problem: in some countries women opting for divorce can't cite "rape" as divorce reason and are stigmatized for divorce. This leads to a situation where women can't realistically avoid the rape because they are legally tied to the rapist."
Wherein I shared my experience growing up in a country where divorce, as an act, was illegal outright and didn't have corner cases for it.
And my telling him that in that culture, the reason people don't leave their rapist husbands is that they do not get support.
There are no shelters, families sometimes don't let them back, and the law won't consider as anything but married.
ie rape culture.
I do believe the west has their own version--but its mainly the fetisization of the helpless female and the power dynamic spread through that fantasy.
This is most common in video games, movies, and books where in the a male hero is normally told that he has to save some type of helpless damsel and in doing so he gets the reward of fucking her. Its the treatment of women as a reward that men "win over" that teaches women that they are only valued when sought after.
So of course they will care about their looks, especially when we tell her that's what her role in society is. When we teach them that the feminine is helpless and the masculine is the savior, it leads to desire being relegated to one person seeking and the other person being the prize of that search.
But no, legally enforcing rape culture is not something the west does. The west mostly tells people that they're undesirable if they don't maintain gender roles. Women will be told they're too manly if they're strong and athletic, men will be called weak if they act feminine.
But that's different from the rape culture in other countries.
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On June 21 2013 07:24 Reason wrote:
What you've failed to realise with all this statistic quoting and redirection to spousal rape is that there's a very good reason people are warned about walking home late at night on their own; they're making themselves vulnerable.
I walk home alone late at night all the time and I accept the fact that if something happens very likely nobody will be there to help or even see it happen. I definitely feel a lot less safe then compared to walking down the main street on a sunny day, though thankfully I've made it home every time so far. Sometimes people don't.
Would you be happy with your young daughter walking home alone late at night? Would you use your statistics to comfort yourself knowing that it's more likely that you'll rape your own child when she gets home than some boogeyman waiting in a bush for her to come past? I think you'd still worry, but maybe I'm just afraid of the dark.
If you are even remotely realistic about this you will recognise immediately why police advise women to walk home with a friend or get a taxi rather than walk home alone; not because they don't understand rape statistics but because they understand the risks involved and that precautions are advisable.
There's a good chance you'll be mugged. A good chance you'll be robbed at gun point. I've even had a friend who was robbed at gun point down the street from where he was living (he was dropping mail off at the time).
I would definitely tell my daughter not to walk alone at night. But not because of rape. I'd advise her to keep sharp and stay with friends because there are dangerous people out there and I would tell my son to do the same thing. I do not believe in that rape monster in the darkness who's only there to rape young girls. I do believe in thieves, I believe in pickpockets. I believe in drunk drivers who might swerve to the side when tired at night, I believe in gang violence that spreads too far (I've had two friends shot in a shoot out, one survived, one died)
But no, statistics tells me that I should be more worried about her male friends wanting to hang out alone with her too often than I am in the boogieman.
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On June 21 2013 07:24 Reason wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
What you've failed to realise with all this statistic quoting and redirection to spousal rape is that there's a very good reason people are warned about walking home late at night on their own; they're making themselves vulnerable.
I walk home alone late at night all the time and I accept the fact that if something happens very likely nobody will be there to help or even see it happen. I definitely feel a lot less safe then compared to walking down the main street on a sunny day, though thankfully I've made it home every time so far. Sometimes people don't.
Would you be happy with your young daughter walking home alone late at night? Would you use your statistics to comfort yourself knowing that it's more likely that you'll rape your own child when she gets home than some boogeyman waiting in a bush for her to come past? I think you'd still worry, but maybe I'm just afraid of the dark.
If you are even remotely realistic about this you will recognise immediately why police advise women to walk home with a friend or get a taxi rather than walk home alone; not because they don't understand rape statistics but because they understand the risks involved and that precautions are advisable.
we are not talking about advice given to women by police officers. we are talking about the reaction of police officers to recieving a reporting of a rape. countless recorded examples demonstrate that the police force. (i can specifically reference in toronto, canada which is one of the more liberal cities, and you can imagine where else it happens) blatantly profile, blame, tease, and overall fail to help people whom have litterally just been raped. i mean common you cant argue against that being a bad thing.
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On June 21 2013 07:31 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 07:24 Reason wrote:
What you've failed to realise with all this statistic quoting and redirection to spousal rape is that there's a very good reason people are warned about walking home late at night on their own; they're making themselves vulnerable.
I walk home alone late at night all the time and I accept the fact that if something happens very likely nobody will be there to help or even see it happen. I definitely feel a lot less safe then compared to walking down the main street on a sunny day, though thankfully I've made it home every time so far. Sometimes people don't.
Would you be happy with your young daughter walking home alone late at night? Would you use your statistics to comfort yourself knowing that it's more likely that you'll rape your own child when she gets home than some boogeyman waiting in a bush for her to come past? I think you'd still worry, but maybe I'm just afraid of the dark.
If you are even remotely realistic about this you will recognise immediately why police advise women to walk home with a friend or get a taxi rather than walk home alone; not because they don't understand rape statistics but because they understand the risks involved and that precautions are advisable. There's a good chance you'll be mugged. A good chance you'll be robbed at gun point. I've even had a friend who was robbed at gun point down the street from where he was living (he was dropping mail off at the time). I would definitely tell my daughter not to walk alone at night. But not because of rape. I'd advise her to keep sharp and stay with friends because there are dangerous people out there and I would tell my son to do the same thing. I do not believe in that rape monster in the darkness who's only there to rape young girls. I do believe in thieves, I believe in pickpockets. I believe in drunk drivers who might swerve to the side when tired at night, I believe in gang violence that spreads too far (I've had two friends shot in a shoot out, one survived, one died) But no, statistics tells me that I should be more worried about her male friends wanting to hang out alone with her too often than I am in the boogieman.
I was just reading in the paper the other day about some woman in Glasgow who got raped walking home alone late at night. It's not the first time I've read such a story and it won't be the last. I don't really care if you accept the danger or not, it's present and warning against it isn't victim blaming. Not sure what you're really trying to prove here with your ignorant attitude, it doesn't matter if your getting shanked for your wallet, beaten up for your hairstyle or violently raped, warning any victim against any possible risk does not constitute victim blaming.
What you've done there is just listed a bunch of stuff that happens and acknowledged that you would tell your daughter not to walk home alone at night for those reasons, but you're refusing to acknowledge that rape should be added to that list. It's actually irrelevant, you've admitted that it's obviously the right thing to do and that's all that's in question here.
Those statistics aren't relevant in the slightest, I don't know why you keep quoting them as they've got nothing to do with anything that's been mentioned.
On June 21 2013 07:34 ComaDose wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 07:24 Reason wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
What you've failed to realise with all this statistic quoting and redirection to spousal rape is that there's a very good reason people are warned about walking home late at night on their own; they're making themselves vulnerable.
I walk home alone late at night all the time and I accept the fact that if something happens very likely nobody will be there to help or even see it happen. I definitely feel a lot less safe then compared to walking down the main street on a sunny day, though thankfully I've made it home every time so far. Sometimes people don't.
Would you be happy with your young daughter walking home alone late at night? Would you use your statistics to comfort yourself knowing that it's more likely that you'll rape your own child when she gets home than some boogeyman waiting in a bush for her to come past? I think you'd still worry, but maybe I'm just afraid of the dark.
If you are even remotely realistic about this you will recognise immediately why police advise women to walk home with a friend or get a taxi rather than walk home alone; not because they don't understand rape statistics but because they understand the risks involved and that precautions are advisable.
we are not talking about advice given to women by police officers. we are talking about the reaction of police officers to recieving a reporting of a rape. countless recorded examples demonstrate that the police force. (i can specifically reference in toronto, canada which is one of the more liberal cities, and you can imagine where else it happens) blatantly profile, blame, tease, and overall fail to help people whom have litterally just been raped . i mean common you cant argue against that being a bad thing.
No, I can't, I haven't and I won't. I haven't said victim blaming is good. I haven't denied it's existence. I've done the opposite.
That leads me to really wonder why you just posted what you did.
On June 21 2013 00:21 DoubleReed wrote:
Reason, in that example, you are the victim and I am blaming you. Notice how unfair it is.
That doesn't mean anything.
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On June 21 2013 07:42 Reason wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 07:31 Thieving Magpie wrote:On June 21 2013 07:24 Reason wrote:
What you've failed to realise with all this statistic quoting and redirection to spousal rape is that there's a very good reason people are warned about walking home late at night on their own; they're making themselves vulnerable.
I walk home alone late at night all the time and I accept the fact that if something happens very likely nobody will be there to help or even see it happen. I definitely feel a lot less safe then compared to walking down the main street on a sunny day, though thankfully I've made it home every time so far. Sometimes people don't.
Would you be happy with your young daughter walking home alone late at night? Would you use your statistics to comfort yourself knowing that it's more likely that you'll rape your own child when she gets home than some boogeyman waiting in a bush for her to come past? I think you'd still worry, but maybe I'm just afraid of the dark.
If you are even remotely realistic about this you will recognise immediately why police advise women to walk home with a friend or get a taxi rather than walk home alone; not because they don't understand rape statistics but because they understand the risks involved and that precautions are advisable. There's a good chance you'll be mugged. A good chance you'll be robbed at gun point. I've even had a friend who was robbed at gun point down the street from where he was living (he was dropping mail off at the time). I would definitely tell my daughter not to walk alone at night. But not because of rape. I'd advise her to keep sharp and stay with friends because there are dangerous people out there and I would tell my son to do the same thing. I do not believe in that rape monster in the darkness who's only there to rape young girls. I do believe in thieves, I believe in pickpockets. I believe in drunk drivers who might swerve to the side when tired at night, I believe in gang violence that spreads too far (I've had two friends shot in a shoot out, one survived, one died) But no, statistics tells me that I should be more worried about her male friends wanting to hang out alone with her too often than I am in the boogieman. I was just reading in the paper the other day about some woman in Glasgow who got raped walking home alone late at night. It's not the first time I've read such a story and it won't be the last. I don't really care if you accept the danger or not, it's present and warning against it isn't victim blaming. Not sure what you're really trying to prove here with your ignorant attitude, it doesn't matter if your getting shanked for your wallet, beaten up for your hairstyle or violently raped, warning any victim against any possible risk does not constitute victim blaming. What you've done there is just listed a bunch of stuff that happens and acknowledged that you would tell your daughter not to walk home alone at night for those reasons, but you're refusing to acknowledge that rape should be added to that list. It's actually irrelevant, you've admitted that it's obviously the right thing to do and that's all that's in question here. Statistics don't matter at all here, I don't know why you keep mentioning them as they've got nothing to do with anything that's been mentioned.
I would not tell my daughter to not go out at night or she'll be raped.
I will tell my kids that going out alone is dangerous. I will tell my male friends, and my female friends. The warning is not for rape, the warning is for gang violence, extremist victims of poverty, its a warning of a desperate lower class who can only lash out at the middle class.
But I will not tell them that horror movies are real and that the only thing people want is to fuck them, that when a starving homeless man shows up with a knife, that he is only doing it to get into her pants because that's apparently the only thing she can offer to her attackers--because it isn't. I will not raise her to be defined by who she fucks and when she fucks.
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On June 21 2013 03:49 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Most rape victims, in the west, are raped by people they know.
This statistic shows that when you zoom out from the west and include the rest of the world, 80% of the rapes comes from people women know.
That tells me that women aren't stupid and are more often raped by people they trust instead of some boogieman out there in the world who hides in back alleys waiting for stupid horror movie bimbos to walk to them.
While I haven't clicked on your link and I kinda wanted the discussion to get back on point, it clearly isn't. When people talk about rape, they clearly don't have spousal rape in mind (although it is apparently a far larger problem than the kind of rape that they do have in mind). When you ask a girl on the street "are you afraid of being raped?" and she answers yes, I will bet you anything you like that if you then ask her "are you afraid of being raped by your boyfriend/husband?", the answer will be no in almost all cases, statistics about who is actually more likely to rape her be damned.
So when people talk about rape, they think about a subset of rape cases, namely those committed by strangers. I know I do. Spousal rape is a specific case of domestic violence, imho, and treated differently (not taken more lightly, but it is clearly a different class of crimes).
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^This is exactly why all those statistics and stuff are irrelevant. You may be more likely to have an accident at home than anywhere else but it doesn't mean health and safety rules aren't rammed down your throat contantly, the statistical deviation between likelihood and/or severity of injury are not taken into account. It's simply warning: danger!
On June 21 2013 07:48 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 07:42 Reason wrote:On June 21 2013 07:31 Thieving Magpie wrote:On June 21 2013 07:24 Reason wrote:
What you've failed to realise with all this statistic quoting and redirection to spousal rape is that there's a very good reason people are warned about walking home late at night on their own; they're making themselves vulnerable.
I walk home alone late at night all the time and I accept the fact that if something happens very likely nobody will be there to help or even see it happen. I definitely feel a lot less safe then compared to walking down the main street on a sunny day, though thankfully I've made it home every time so far. Sometimes people don't.
Would you be happy with your young daughter walking home alone late at night? Would you use your statistics to comfort yourself knowing that it's more likely that you'll rape your own child when she gets home than some boogeyman waiting in a bush for her to come past? I think you'd still worry, but maybe I'm just afraid of the dark.
If you are even remotely realistic about this you will recognise immediately why police advise women to walk home with a friend or get a taxi rather than walk home alone; not because they don't understand rape statistics but because they understand the risks involved and that precautions are advisable. There's a good chance you'll be mugged. A good chance you'll be robbed at gun point. I've even had a friend who was robbed at gun point down the street from where he was living (he was dropping mail off at the time). I would definitely tell my daughter not to walk alone at night. But not because of rape. I'd advise her to keep sharp and stay with friends because there are dangerous people out there and I would tell my son to do the same thing. I do not believe in that rape monster in the darkness who's only there to rape young girls. I do believe in thieves, I believe in pickpockets. I believe in drunk drivers who might swerve to the side when tired at night, I believe in gang violence that spreads too far (I've had two friends shot in a shoot out, one survived, one died) But no, statistics tells me that I should be more worried about her male friends wanting to hang out alone with her too often than I am in the boogieman. I was just reading in the paper the other day about some woman in Glasgow who got raped walking home alone late at night. It's not the first time I've read such a story and it won't be the last. I don't really care if you accept the danger or not, it's present and warning against it isn't victim blaming. Not sure what you're really trying to prove here with your ignorant attitude, it doesn't matter if your getting shanked for your wallet, beaten up for your hairstyle or violently raped, warning any victim against any possible risk does not constitute victim blaming. What you've done there is just listed a bunch of stuff that happens and acknowledged that you would tell your daughter not to walk home alone at night for those reasons, but you're refusing to acknowledge that rape should be added to that list. It's actually irrelevant, you've admitted that it's obviously the right thing to do and that's all that's in question here. Statistics don't matter at all here, I don't know why you keep mentioning them as they've got nothing to do with anything that's been mentioned. I would not tell my daughter to not go out at night or she'll be raped. I will tell my kids that going out alone is dangerous. I will tell my male friends, and my female friends. The warning is not for rape, the warning is for gang violence, extremist victims of poverty, its a warning of a desperate lower class who can only lash out at the middle class. But I will not tell them that horror movies are real and that the only thing people want is to fuck them, that when a starving homeless man shows up with a knife, that he is only doing it to get into her pants because that's apparently the only thing she can offer to her attackers--because it isn't. I will not raise her to be defined by who she fucks and when she fucks.
You sound like you're disagreeing with me on the finer details, but all I'm talking about is the fundamental principle, which we clearly agree upon.
Personally, I would tell my daughter not to go out at night because it's dangerous. I'm not going to go into gory details because the specific reasons why she should avoid doing so are irrelevant.
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EPT
