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On June 08 2013 06:58 JimmiC wrote:
"modeling is about having good, in-fashion looks. what do you prefer athletics be about, the decades of training and the competition or how some woman happened to be blessed with talent and looks, the latter by sheer luck of genes?"
Athletics is about the competition, training so on, and for the record many peoples success in athletics has to do with "the sheer luck of genes" No way I can even jump like lebron or be that size no matter the training.
But just because Anna Kornikova got money and fame from her looks she didn't win a single extra match (unless the oppenent was mezmorized by her booty and missed the ball) In fact she never won a tournment.
"
What her looks got her is money through marketing and modeling. So I really don't see your point.
And many a guy has been overated by his looks, or personality, and made more money because of it. Look at Jon fitch in mma because he is boring he made less money then worse MMA atheletes. It's because pro sports are a entertainment buisness, those that entertain, whether it be looks, personality what ever.
ALSO if you want me to be really factual but politically incorrect, outside of a very very very few women stricly athletically speaking you would never watch them because they are worse. Slower, weaker so on. Danica would be a bit of a exception except the fact that she is a women has got her many benifts. On Athletisicm alone she probably would have never made it. No women Basketball player could compete, hockey, soccer, so on.
So by pure athletism womens sports should not exist just one for both genders, where only the best are,and it would be 99.9999999% men.
okay, so you cite a situation where a female athlete launches a career almost solely on the strength of her ass in a short skirt dancing around...and you ask me what my point is? do I really have to point out how emblematic that is of my entire argument?
"pure athletism" is bullshit, women's leagues exist for a reason and though I won't go deep into specific sports because frankly I pay no attention to them specifically, I'm pretty sure there are multiple athletic careers where women can thrive.
"pro sports are a entertainment business"
1) yeah, you don't find it problematic that corporations think so little of you that they wave flesh in your face and you lap it up?
2) yeah, you don't find it problematic that athletics often comes second to entrancing the lowest common denominator?
again, I'm not a sports guy whatsoever, but I don't think I would be able to ignore all that systematic contempt and cynicism.
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On June 08 2013 07:00 theodorus12 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 06:59 Thieving Magpie wrote:On June 08 2013 06:58 JimmiC wrote:
"modeling is about having good, in-fashion looks. what do you prefer athletics be about, the decades of training and the competition or how some woman happened to be blessed with talent and looks, the latter by sheer luck of genes?"
Athletics is about the competition, training so on, and for the record many peoples success in athletics has to do with "the sheer luck of genes" No way I can even jump like lebron or be that size no matter the training.
But just because Anna Kornikova got money and fame from her looks she didn't win a single extra match (unless the oppenent was mezmorized by her booty and missed the ball) In fact she never won a tournment.
"
What her looks got her is money through marketing and modeling. So I really don't see your point.
And many a guy has been overated by his looks, or personality, and made more money because of it. Look at Jon fitch in mma because he is boring he made less money then worse MMA atheletes. It's because pro sports are a entertainment buisness, those that entertain, whether it be looks, personality what ever.
ALSO if you want me to be really factual but politically incorrect, outside of a very very very few women stricly athletically speaking you would never watch them because they are worse. Slower, weaker so on. Danica would be a bit of a exception except the fact that she is a women has got her many benifts. On Athletisicm alone she probably would have never made it. No women Basketball player could compete, hockey, soccer, so on.
So by pure athletism womens sports should not exist just one for both genders, where only the best are,and it would be 99.9999999% men. It is posters like this that I wish I could block them from TL... Why? Because he is right and it hurts your feelings?
People enjoy watching competition and having those competitions have arbitrary selling points. So whether the competition is Starcraft, Basketball, Magic the Gathering, Football, Chess, Hockey, etc... It doesn't matter what that competition is, there is someone out there who enjoys that sport. There is someone out there who enjoys watching billiards, even if billiard players are not as strong as football players. There are people who enjoy watching Nascar--despite nascar drivers being terrible at running compared to sprinters. There is a niche for everyone and telling those niche groups that their opinions don't count because they don't align with yours is severely xenophobic.
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On June 08 2013 07:02 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 06:51 ComaDose wrote:On June 08 2013 06:47 dAPhREAk wrote:On June 08 2013 06:39 TheExile19 wrote:On June 08 2013 06:31 dAPhREAk wrote:
ummm, thats advertising. they display what people like: either you are incredibly talented, or you have a nice rack. the players have the right (albeit limited in some circumstances) to control the use of their image so if they are fine with it, its cool with me. ...that's great that you're cool with it, but participants in a sexist system of marketing, even with something we'd regard as autonomy/agency/ability to make choices, are still being exploited on some level because of the astronomical benefits of licensing your body's image to corporate advertising. it's a choice between financial success and personal well-being knowing that your image inevitably consumes you as a person and even as an athlete, how fuckin' fair is that? that totally ignores the other half of the coin where those who aren't gifted with acceptable genetics are told to fuck off regardless of accomplishment, no set-for-life-ride for you on the back of advertising. not only am i cool with it, they are too. probably loving their multi-million dollar contracts. they are not told to fuck off regardless of accomplishment. if you're the best in your field, you will be showered with money. as i said, be incredibly talented or have a nice rack. On June 08 2013 06:39 ComaDose wrote:On June 08 2013 06:31 dAPhREAk wrote:On June 08 2013 06:19 TheExile19 wrote:On June 08 2013 06:11 NTTemplar wrote:On June 08 2013 05:59 sunprince wrote:On June 08 2013 05:25 ComaDose wrote:On June 08 2013 05:07 sunprince wrote:
[quote]
Your entire thought process rests upon the sex-negative assumption that "objectification" or "sexualization" is sexist.
In reality, viewing others as sexual beings is a normal part of healthy human sexual behavior, and the whole obsession with "objectification" is nothing more than the demonization of normal sexual desires. I disagree. Objectification means treating a person as a thing. which is not healthy human sexual behavior. There's a reason I put "objectification" in quotes. The whole point is that what is commonly demonized as "objectification" is nothing more than finding someone sexually attractive, which doesn't actually treat them as a thing. On June 08 2013 05:25 ComaDose wrote:On June 08 2013 05:11 sunprince wrote:
[quote]
I believe the point being made is that marketing your own sexuality does not make you a victim of sexism, contrary to those who like to perpetuate female victimology. why would someone make such an irrelivant point? like who is even talking about that? and who are these people who think so I have never heard anyone with a shred of knowledge about gender issues claim anyone from sex workers to models is a victim of sexism based on their career choice :/ A large number of people here are arguing that portraying women sexually is sexist. The majority of feminists argue that sex workers are victims. Let us get it clear that being sexist means you discriminate based on gender, in this regard portraying women sexually would be sexist if men weren't. However reality is that both men and women in many industries are portrayed sexually, hence there is no discrimination based on gender. why does every thread associated with gender discrimination on TL lean this way after a certain point the bolded conclusion, without any ameliorating statements, is fucking laughable. you can only possibly reach it if you ignore every other sphere of human interaction and media. On June 08 2013 06:16 dAPhREAk wrote:
people are using objectify and market interchangeably. sports figures are products so of course they are treated like objects/things. they are trying to sell themselves to others (especially sponsors). sports organizers are trying to sell their sports and when they have tits and ass, they are going to use it to sell to their consumers (men). men like boobs. ...yeah, what's your point, it still contributes to a sexist society and it still solidifies the image that only hot women with boobs that men like are rewarded. if you think that's inevitable, whatever, but it's still a little fucked, eh? ummm, thats advertising. they display what people like: either you are incredibly talented, or you have a nice rack. the players have the right (albeit limited in some circumstances) to control the use of their image so if they are fine with it, its cool with me. but if you're increadably talented and have a nice rack it is observed that you are judged more on your rack than your talent, both in the media and by the standard citizen. but mostly in the case of women. which is the sexualization and objectification we are talking about. i dont agree with that characterization. people arent saying "she won a gold medal, whatever, but look at that fucking rack!!" arn't they saying that? i thought thats what this topic was about and the relivance of the article referencing the record setting pole vaulting model. you said: "as i said, be incredibly talented or have a nice rack." those things are not mutally exclusive and there exists an exteremly talented woman with a nice rack who doesnt want the tabloids to read her cup size. might as well ask the tabloids to hire legitimate writers--it would be as productive. people want to know stuff, magazines sell it. maybe my world is isolated, but i have never seen someone disregard an olympian's achievements to discuss her rack size.
of course sexualizing women is the best buisiness model currently. and the tabloids are just the easyest example. how bout the people in this thread that said: "i only watch girls sports cause they are hot." can you argue that that is not objectifying? do you think that takes away from the athlets acomplishment? (even if its not a gold medal?)
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On June 08 2013 07:02 theodorus12 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 07:00 NTTemplar wrote:On June 08 2013 06:52 Thieving Magpie wrote:On June 08 2013 06:49 JimmiC wrote:
If they didn't want people to think about there boobs, they wouldn't wear outfits that accentuate them. Same way if a man didn't want women to think about his abs he wouldn't take off his shirt. In case you didn't know, people don't dress to please you, they dress to please themselves. Was about to mention this myself having heard quite a few guys say "if she doesn't want me to look, she wouldn't wear it", fully knowing that the majority of girls I know dress like they do since it is comfortable, not to show off. Just like I don't wear tight shirts to "try and show off my body" but because I like clothing that doesn't restrict my movement much like a lot of baggier clothes do, most girls I know at least wear clothes they are comfortable in. Simply put, thinking people dress for you as opposed to wearing something they themselves are comfortable in is a rather ignorant and perhaps selfcentered view in my eyes. It's her freedom to wear whatever she wants, but it's also my freedom to look at her boobs or ass....
Which I also addressed in the post prior to the one you quoted.
In the quoted post I was pointing out that just because a girl has some cleavage doesn't mean she wants people to look at her boobs, many times it is simply clothing they are comfortable in.
Just like there are women who don't wear bras, not because they want people to see their nipples poking through their shirt, but because there are those who find bras very uncomfortable to wear.
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On June 08 2013 07:04 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 06:49 JimmiC wrote:
If they didn't want people to think about there boobs, they wouldn't wear outfits that accentuate them. Same way if a man didn't want women to think about his abs he wouldn't take off his shirt.
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In case you didn't know, people don't dress to please you, they dress to please themselves" LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Did you write that with a straight face? Wow talk about pretentious, naive, iggnorant. If people dressed to please themselves everyone would where the most comfortable cheapest thing. People dress the way they do to impress others. Whether it be friends, opposite sex, who ever. You don't wear a teamliquid shirt to please youself you wear it to indicate to others that you support team liquid. Any brand, logo, style, is all for others. You don't need it, you know what you are, who you support and so on.
If I wore a TL shirt it would be because I like TL
I would not wear a TL shirt in some perverse agenda to convince random people in the street to log on to TL
When I put on my Nike Shoes, I am not trying to convince everyone to wear Nike shoes.
When I wear a jersey, I'm not trying to convince everyone to start rooting for my team.
What I wear, I wear because I like it.
What you wear, you wear because you like it.
When a woman wears something she likes, and you happen to be attracted to it, she isn't asking you to fuck her.
When a man wears something you like, and you happened to be attracted to him, he isn't asking you to fuck him.
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On June 08 2013 07:05 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 07:00 theodorus12 wrote:On June 08 2013 06:59 Thieving Magpie wrote:On June 08 2013 06:58 JimmiC wrote:
"modeling is about having good, in-fashion looks. what do you prefer athletics be about, the decades of training and the competition or how some woman happened to be blessed with talent and looks, the latter by sheer luck of genes?"
Athletics is about the competition, training so on, and for the record many peoples success in athletics has to do with "the sheer luck of genes" No way I can even jump like lebron or be that size no matter the training.
But just because Anna Kornikova got money and fame from her looks she didn't win a single extra match (unless the oppenent was mezmorized by her booty and missed the ball) In fact she never won a tournment.
"
What her looks got her is money through marketing and modeling. So I really don't see your point.
And many a guy has been overated by his looks, or personality, and made more money because of it. Look at Jon fitch in mma because he is boring he made less money then worse MMA atheletes. It's because pro sports are a entertainment buisness, those that entertain, whether it be looks, personality what ever.
ALSO if you want me to be really factual but politically incorrect, outside of a very very very few women stricly athletically speaking you would never watch them because they are worse. Slower, weaker so on. Danica would be a bit of a exception except the fact that she is a women has got her many benifts. On Athletisicm alone she probably would have never made it. No women Basketball player could compete, hockey, soccer, so on.
So by pure athletism womens sports should not exist just one for both genders, where only the best are,and it would be 99.9999999% men. It is posters like this that I wish I could block them from TL... Why? Because he is right and it hurts your feelings? People enjoy watching competition and having those competitions have arbitrary selling points. So whether the competition is Starcraft, Basketball, Magic the Gathering, Football, Chess, Hockey, etc... It doesn't matter what that competition is, there is someone out there who enjoys that sport. There is someone out there who enjoys watching billiards, even if billiard players are not as strong as football players. There are people who enjoy watching Nascar--despite nascar drivers being terrible at running compared to sprinters. There is a niche for everyone and telling those niche groups that their opinions don't count because they don't align with yours is severely xenophobic.
On June 08 2013 07:07 NTTemplar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 07:02 theodorus12 wrote:On June 08 2013 07:00 NTTemplar wrote:On June 08 2013 06:52 Thieving Magpie wrote:On June 08 2013 06:49 JimmiC wrote:
If they didn't want people to think about there boobs, they wouldn't wear outfits that accentuate them. Same way if a man didn't want women to think about his abs he wouldn't take off his shirt. In case you didn't know, people don't dress to please you, they dress to please themselves. Was about to mention this myself having heard quite a few guys say "if she doesn't want me to look, she wouldn't wear it", fully knowing that the majority of girls I know dress like they do since it is comfortable, not to show off. Just like I don't wear tight shirts to "try and show off my body" but because I like clothing that doesn't restrict my movement much like a lot of baggier clothes do, most girls I know at least wear clothes they are comfortable in. Simply put, thinking people dress for you as opposed to wearing something they themselves are comfortable in is a rather ignorant and perhaps selfcentered view in my eyes. It's her freedom to wear whatever she wants, but it's also my freedom to look at her boobs or ass.... Which I also addressed in the post prior to the one you quoted. In the quoted post I was pointing out that just because a girl has some cleavage doesn't mean she wants people to look at her boobs, many times it is simply clothing they are comfortable in. Just like there are women who don't wear bras, not because they want people to see their nipples poking through their shirt, but because there are those who find bras very uncomfortable to wear.
I don't care whether she wants me to look or not, it's my freedom to look whenever I want.
And I think it's quite obvious most girls dress sexy because they like the attention, not because it's comfortable, or why do you think so many girls like high heels so much?
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On June 08 2013 07:05 ComaDose wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 07:02 dAPhREAk wrote:On June 08 2013 06:51 ComaDose wrote:On June 08 2013 06:47 dAPhREAk wrote:On June 08 2013 06:39 TheExile19 wrote:On June 08 2013 06:31 dAPhREAk wrote:
ummm, thats advertising. they display what people like: either you are incredibly talented, or you have a nice rack. the players have the right (albeit limited in some circumstances) to control the use of their image so if they are fine with it, its cool with me. ...that's great that you're cool with it, but participants in a sexist system of marketing, even with something we'd regard as autonomy/agency/ability to make choices, are still being exploited on some level because of the astronomical benefits of licensing your body's image to corporate advertising. it's a choice between financial success and personal well-being knowing that your image inevitably consumes you as a person and even as an athlete, how fuckin' fair is that? that totally ignores the other half of the coin where those who aren't gifted with acceptable genetics are told to fuck off regardless of accomplishment, no set-for-life-ride for you on the back of advertising. not only am i cool with it, they are too. probably loving their multi-million dollar contracts. they are not told to fuck off regardless of accomplishment. if you're the best in your field, you will be showered with money. as i said, be incredibly talented or have a nice rack. On June 08 2013 06:39 ComaDose wrote:On June 08 2013 06:31 dAPhREAk wrote:On June 08 2013 06:19 TheExile19 wrote:On June 08 2013 06:11 NTTemplar wrote:On June 08 2013 05:59 sunprince wrote:On June 08 2013 05:25 ComaDose wrote:
[quote]
I disagree. Objectification means treating a person as a thing. which is not healthy human sexual behavior. There's a reason I put "objectification" in quotes. The whole point is that what is commonly demonized as "objectification" is nothing more than finding someone sexually attractive, which doesn't actually treat them as a thing. On June 08 2013 05:25 ComaDose wrote:[quote]
why would someone make such an irrelivant point? like who is even talking about that? and who are these people who think so I have never heard anyone with a shred of knowledge about gender issues claim anyone from sex workers to models is a victim of sexism based on their career choice :/ A large number of people here are arguing that portraying women sexually is sexist. The majority of feminists argue that sex workers are victims. Let us get it clear that being sexist means you discriminate based on gender, in this regard portraying women sexually would be sexist if men weren't. However reality is that both men and women in many industries are portrayed sexually, hence there is no discrimination based on gender. why does every thread associated with gender discrimination on TL lean this way after a certain point the bolded conclusion, without any ameliorating statements, is fucking laughable. you can only possibly reach it if you ignore every other sphere of human interaction and media. On June 08 2013 06:16 dAPhREAk wrote:
people are using objectify and market interchangeably. sports figures are products so of course they are treated like objects/things. they are trying to sell themselves to others (especially sponsors). sports organizers are trying to sell their sports and when they have tits and ass, they are going to use it to sell to their consumers (men). men like boobs. ...yeah, what's your point, it still contributes to a sexist society and it still solidifies the image that only hot women with boobs that men like are rewarded. if you think that's inevitable, whatever, but it's still a little fucked, eh? ummm, thats advertising. they display what people like: either you are incredibly talented, or you have a nice rack. the players have the right (albeit limited in some circumstances) to control the use of their image so if they are fine with it, its cool with me. but if you're increadably talented and have a nice rack it is observed that you are judged more on your rack than your talent, both in the media and by the standard citizen. but mostly in the case of women. which is the sexualization and objectification we are talking about. i dont agree with that characterization. people arent saying "she won a gold medal, whatever, but look at that fucking rack!!" arn't they saying that? i thought thats what this topic was about and the relivance of the article referencing the record setting pole vaulting model. you said: "as i said, be incredibly talented or have a nice rack." those things are not mutally exclusive and there exists an exteremly talented woman with a nice rack who doesnt want the tabloids to read her cup size. might as well ask the tabloids to hire legitimate writers--it would be as productive. people want to know stuff, magazines sell it. maybe my world is isolated, but i have never seen someone disregard an olympian's achievements to discuss her rack size. of course sexualizing women is the best buisiness model currently. and the tabloids are just the easyest example. how bout the people in this thread that said: "i only watch girls sports cause they are hot." can you argue that that is not objectifying? do you think that takes away from the athlets acomplishment? (even if its not a gold medal?)
i dont care why people watch women's sports, nor would i presume to tell people to only watch women's sports because of their talent. the only thing i remotely care about is how the sports themselves represent themselves. if women's NFL turned into this, I would have a problem:
+ Show Spoiler +
but as long as it stays like this and advertises its sexiest girls to promote itself, i have no problem:
+ Show Spoiler +
i have a problem with sports requiring girls to wear skirts/bikinis for no apparent reason other than to show their tits and ass. i do not have a problem with girls wearing skirts/bikinis to promote themselves outside of the actual sport.
personally, i dont understand why someone would watch women's sports for the tits and ass. just watch porn.
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On June 08 2013 07:04 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 06:49 JimmiC wrote:
If they didn't want people to think about there boobs, they wouldn't wear outfits that accentuate them. Same way if a man didn't want women to think about his abs he wouldn't take off his shirt.
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In case you didn't know, people don't dress to please you, they dress to please themselves" LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Did you write that with a straight face? Wow talk about pretentious, naive, iggnorant. If people dressed to please themselves everyone would where the most comfortable cheapest thing. People dress the way they do to impress others. Whether it be friends, opposite sex, who ever. You don't wear a teamliquid shirt to please youself you wear it to indicate to others that you support team liquid. Any brand, logo, style, is all for others. You don't need it, you know what you are, who you support and so on.
No, people dress the way they do to be comfortable around others, this often includes wearing clothes that accentuates your attractive features, as feeling attractive is very comfortable for many.
At least in my social environments people primarly dress according to comfort, exceptions are job interviews or clubbing were people tend to dress to impress, but everyday clothing is chosen based on comfort in my social environment at least.
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On June 08 2013 07:08 JimmiC wrote:
Women have more rights then Men in todays society. And for some reason traditionally female traits ahve been cannonized were traditionally male traits have been demonized. e fact that I point this out does not make me evil it makes me aware.
nope
I sincerely think you could not explicate this statement into something comprehensible if you tried
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On June 08 2013 07:08 JimmiC wrote:I think it's reality you dislike not me. I'm not saying "this is how it should be, or shouldn't be" I'm saying this is how it is. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it real. Women have more rights then Men in todays society. And for some reason traditionally female traits ahve been cannonized were traditionally male traits have been demonized. The fact that I point this out does not make me evil it makes me aware.
Um... you do know that if people are complaining about something existing it is because they *see* it existing in front of them and disagree with it. I did not even think that you are suggesting that things should or shouldn't be something.
But I also don't find it surprising that you like that women are treated the way they are and for you to also believe women have more rights than men. I find that people who see women as these people who dress for men, who have boobs for men, who are being sexy for men, that those same people (usually men) also talk about how women have all the rights.
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On June 08 2013 07:05 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 07:00 theodorus12 wrote:On June 08 2013 06:59 Thieving Magpie wrote:On June 08 2013 06:58 JimmiC wrote:
"modeling is about having good, in-fashion looks. what do you prefer athletics be about, the decades of training and the competition or how some woman happened to be blessed with talent and looks, the latter by sheer luck of genes?"
Athletics is about the competition, training so on, and for the record many peoples success in athletics has to do with "the sheer luck of genes" No way I can even jump like lebron or be that size no matter the training.
But just because Anna Kornikova got money and fame from her looks she didn't win a single extra match (unless the oppenent was mezmorized by her booty and missed the ball) In fact she never won a tournment.
"
What her looks got her is money through marketing and modeling. So I really don't see your point.
And many a guy has been overated by his looks, or personality, and made more money because of it. Look at Jon fitch in mma because he is boring he made less money then worse MMA atheletes. It's because pro sports are a entertainment buisness, those that entertain, whether it be looks, personality what ever.
ALSO if you want me to be really factual but politically incorrect, outside of a very very very few women stricly athletically speaking you would never watch them because they are worse. Slower, weaker so on. Danica would be a bit of a exception except the fact that she is a women has got her many benifts. On Athletisicm alone she probably would have never made it. No women Basketball player could compete, hockey, soccer, so on.
So by pure athletism womens sports should not exist just one for both genders, where only the best are,and it would be 99.9999999% men. It is posters like this that I wish I could block them from TL... Why? Because he is right and it hurts your feelings? People enjoy watching competition and having those competitions have arbitrary selling points. So whether the competition is Starcraft, Basketball, Magic the Gathering, Football, Chess, Hockey, etc... It doesn't matter what that competition is, there is someone out there who enjoys that sport. There is someone out there who enjoys watching billiards, even if billiard players are not as strong as football players. There are people who enjoy watching Nascar--despite nascar drivers being terrible at running compared to sprinters. There is a niche for everyone and telling those niche groups that their opinions don't count because they don't align with yours is severely xenophobic.
You can't compare billiard to football etc. Why would I want to watch lesser (female) players playing a sport, when I could watch the men game and enjoy a better game? It's the same reason no one wants to watch bronze league tournaments.
Most of the viewers of female sports most likely only tune in to watch some boobs...
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On June 08 2013 07:09 theodorus12 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 07:05 Thieving Magpie wrote:On June 08 2013 07:00 theodorus12 wrote:On June 08 2013 06:59 Thieving Magpie wrote:On June 08 2013 06:58 JimmiC wrote:
"modeling is about having good, in-fashion looks. what do you prefer athletics be about, the decades of training and the competition or how some woman happened to be blessed with talent and looks, the latter by sheer luck of genes?"
Athletics is about the competition, training so on, and for the record many peoples success in athletics has to do with "the sheer luck of genes" No way I can even jump like lebron or be that size no matter the training.
But just because Anna Kornikova got money and fame from her looks she didn't win a single extra match (unless the oppenent was mezmorized by her booty and missed the ball) In fact she never won a tournment.
"
What her looks got her is money through marketing and modeling. So I really don't see your point.
And many a guy has been overated by his looks, or personality, and made more money because of it. Look at Jon fitch in mma because he is boring he made less money then worse MMA atheletes. It's because pro sports are a entertainment buisness, those that entertain, whether it be looks, personality what ever.
ALSO if you want me to be really factual but politically incorrect, outside of a very very very few women stricly athletically speaking you would never watch them because they are worse. Slower, weaker so on. Danica would be a bit of a exception except the fact that she is a women has got her many benifts. On Athletisicm alone she probably would have never made it. No women Basketball player could compete, hockey, soccer, so on.
So by pure athletism womens sports should not exist just one for both genders, where only the best are,and it would be 99.9999999% men. It is posters like this that I wish I could block them from TL... Why? Because he is right and it hurts your feelings? People enjoy watching competition and having those competitions have arbitrary selling points. So whether the competition is Starcraft, Basketball, Magic the Gathering, Football, Chess, Hockey, etc... It doesn't matter what that competition is, there is someone out there who enjoys that sport. There is someone out there who enjoys watching billiards, even if billiard players are not as strong as football players. There are people who enjoy watching Nascar--despite nascar drivers being terrible at running compared to sprinters. There is a niche for everyone and telling those niche groups that their opinions don't count because they don't align with yours is severely xenophobic. Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 07:07 NTTemplar wrote:On June 08 2013 07:02 theodorus12 wrote:On June 08 2013 07:00 NTTemplar wrote:On June 08 2013 06:52 Thieving Magpie wrote:On June 08 2013 06:49 JimmiC wrote:
If they didn't want people to think about there boobs, they wouldn't wear outfits that accentuate them. Same way if a man didn't want women to think about his abs he wouldn't take off his shirt. In case you didn't know, people don't dress to please you, they dress to please themselves. Was about to mention this myself having heard quite a few guys say "if she doesn't want me to look, she wouldn't wear it", fully knowing that the majority of girls I know dress like they do since it is comfortable, not to show off. Just like I don't wear tight shirts to "try and show off my body" but because I like clothing that doesn't restrict my movement much like a lot of baggier clothes do, most girls I know at least wear clothes they are comfortable in. Simply put, thinking people dress for you as opposed to wearing something they themselves are comfortable in is a rather ignorant and perhaps selfcentered view in my eyes. It's her freedom to wear whatever she wants, but it's also my freedom to look at her boobs or ass.... Which I also addressed in the post prior to the one you quoted. In the quoted post I was pointing out that just because a girl has some cleavage doesn't mean she wants people to look at her boobs, many times it is simply clothing they are comfortable in. Just like there are women who don't wear bras, not because they want people to see their nipples poking through their shirt, but because there are those who find bras very uncomfortable to wear. I don't care whether she wants me to look or not, it's my freedom to look whenever I want. And I think it's quite obvious most girls dress sexy because they like the attention, not because it's comfortable, or why do you think so many girls like high heels so much?
Women wore high heels so that they could be more like powerful men at the time http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21151350
Because, it turns out, women like feeling good about themselves. When women at the time all started wearing heels, men stopped wearing high heels and started to make fun of it. Hence why people would laugh if a man walked around in high heels today--because if he did he would look like a woman and its a hilarious thing to them for a man to ever want to be similar to a woman.
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Brittney Griner is a beast
on the court... and off.
so yeah
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On June 08 2013 07:13 theodorus12 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 07:05 Thieving Magpie wrote:On June 08 2013 07:00 theodorus12 wrote:On June 08 2013 06:59 Thieving Magpie wrote:On June 08 2013 06:58 JimmiC wrote:
"modeling is about having good, in-fashion looks. what do you prefer athletics be about, the decades of training and the competition or how some woman happened to be blessed with talent and looks, the latter by sheer luck of genes?"
Athletics is about the competition, training so on, and for the record many peoples success in athletics has to do with "the sheer luck of genes" No way I can even jump like lebron or be that size no matter the training.
But just because Anna Kornikova got money and fame from her looks she didn't win a single extra match (unless the oppenent was mezmorized by her booty and missed the ball) In fact she never won a tournment.
"
What her looks got her is money through marketing and modeling. So I really don't see your point.
And many a guy has been overated by his looks, or personality, and made more money because of it. Look at Jon fitch in mma because he is boring he made less money then worse MMA atheletes. It's because pro sports are a entertainment buisness, those that entertain, whether it be looks, personality what ever.
ALSO if you want me to be really factual but politically incorrect, outside of a very very very few women stricly athletically speaking you would never watch them because they are worse. Slower, weaker so on. Danica would be a bit of a exception except the fact that she is a women has got her many benifts. On Athletisicm alone she probably would have never made it. No women Basketball player could compete, hockey, soccer, so on.
So by pure athletism womens sports should not exist just one for both genders, where only the best are,and it would be 99.9999999% men. It is posters like this that I wish I could block them from TL... Why? Because he is right and it hurts your feelings? People enjoy watching competition and having those competitions have arbitrary selling points. So whether the competition is Starcraft, Basketball, Magic the Gathering, Football, Chess, Hockey, etc... It doesn't matter what that competition is, there is someone out there who enjoys that sport. There is someone out there who enjoys watching billiards, even if billiard players are not as strong as football players. There are people who enjoy watching Nascar--despite nascar drivers being terrible at running compared to sprinters. There is a niche for everyone and telling those niche groups that their opinions don't count because they don't align with yours is severely xenophobic. You can't compare billiard to football etc. Why would I want to watch lesser (female) players playing a sport, when I could watch the men game and enjoy a better game? It's the same reason no one wants to watch bronze league tournaments. Most of the viewers of female sports most likely only tune in to watch some boobs...
think of it as supporting the NA scene if it helps you. I lean towards the highest standard of competition in SC2 myself, but then in bronze league/the NA scene/whatever metaphor you like, the players aren't so hard up for interest or quite so drenched in corporate and consumer apathy that they're convinced that taking off their clothes will drum some viewers up.
though, you never know until you try I guess. EG.lingerie [RC]
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On June 08 2013 07:13 theodorus12 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 07:05 Thieving Magpie wrote:On June 08 2013 07:00 theodorus12 wrote:On June 08 2013 06:59 Thieving Magpie wrote:On June 08 2013 06:58 JimmiC wrote:
"modeling is about having good, in-fashion looks. what do you prefer athletics be about, the decades of training and the competition or how some woman happened to be blessed with talent and looks, the latter by sheer luck of genes?"
Athletics is about the competition, training so on, and for the record many peoples success in athletics has to do with "the sheer luck of genes" No way I can even jump like lebron or be that size no matter the training.
But just because Anna Kornikova got money and fame from her looks she didn't win a single extra match (unless the oppenent was mezmorized by her booty and missed the ball) In fact she never won a tournment.
"
What her looks got her is money through marketing and modeling. So I really don't see your point.
And many a guy has been overated by his looks, or personality, and made more money because of it. Look at Jon fitch in mma because he is boring he made less money then worse MMA atheletes. It's because pro sports are a entertainment buisness, those that entertain, whether it be looks, personality what ever.
ALSO if you want me to be really factual but politically incorrect, outside of a very very very few women stricly athletically speaking you would never watch them because they are worse. Slower, weaker so on. Danica would be a bit of a exception except the fact that she is a women has got her many benifts. On Athletisicm alone she probably would have never made it. No women Basketball player could compete, hockey, soccer, so on.
So by pure athletism womens sports should not exist just one for both genders, where only the best are,and it would be 99.9999999% men. It is posters like this that I wish I could block them from TL... Why? Because he is right and it hurts your feelings? People enjoy watching competition and having those competitions have arbitrary selling points. So whether the competition is Starcraft, Basketball, Magic the Gathering, Football, Chess, Hockey, etc... It doesn't matter what that competition is, there is someone out there who enjoys that sport. There is someone out there who enjoys watching billiards, even if billiard players are not as strong as football players. There are people who enjoy watching Nascar--despite nascar drivers being terrible at running compared to sprinters. There is a niche for everyone and telling those niche groups that their opinions don't count because they don't align with yours is severely xenophobic. You can't compare billiard to football etc. Why would I want to watch lesser (female) players playing a sport, when I could watch the men game and enjoy a better game? It's the same reason no one wants to watch bronze league tournaments. Most of the viewers of female sports most likely only tune in to watch some boobs...
The US viewership watches more college sports than professional sports despite college sports being athletically inferior in every way.
Every group has its fans.
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On June 08 2013 07:17 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 07:09 theodorus12 wrote:On June 08 2013 07:05 Thieving Magpie wrote:On June 08 2013 07:00 theodorus12 wrote:On June 08 2013 06:59 Thieving Magpie wrote:On June 08 2013 06:58 JimmiC wrote:
"modeling is about having good, in-fashion looks. what do you prefer athletics be about, the decades of training and the competition or how some woman happened to be blessed with talent and looks, the latter by sheer luck of genes?"
Athletics is about the competition, training so on, and for the record many peoples success in athletics has to do with "the sheer luck of genes" No way I can even jump like lebron or be that size no matter the training.
But just because Anna Kornikova got money and fame from her looks she didn't win a single extra match (unless the oppenent was mezmorized by her booty and missed the ball) In fact she never won a tournment.
"
What her looks got her is money through marketing and modeling. So I really don't see your point.
And many a guy has been overated by his looks, or personality, and made more money because of it. Look at Jon fitch in mma because he is boring he made less money then worse MMA atheletes. It's because pro sports are a entertainment buisness, those that entertain, whether it be looks, personality what ever.
ALSO if you want me to be really factual but politically incorrect, outside of a very very very few women stricly athletically speaking you would never watch them because they are worse. Slower, weaker so on. Danica would be a bit of a exception except the fact that she is a women has got her many benifts. On Athletisicm alone she probably would have never made it. No women Basketball player could compete, hockey, soccer, so on.
So by pure athletism womens sports should not exist just one for both genders, where only the best are,and it would be 99.9999999% men. It is posters like this that I wish I could block them from TL... Why? Because he is right and it hurts your feelings? People enjoy watching competition and having those competitions have arbitrary selling points. So whether the competition is Starcraft, Basketball, Magic the Gathering, Football, Chess, Hockey, etc... It doesn't matter what that competition is, there is someone out there who enjoys that sport. There is someone out there who enjoys watching billiards, even if billiard players are not as strong as football players. There are people who enjoy watching Nascar--despite nascar drivers being terrible at running compared to sprinters. There is a niche for everyone and telling those niche groups that their opinions don't count because they don't align with yours is severely xenophobic. On June 08 2013 07:07 NTTemplar wrote:On June 08 2013 07:02 theodorus12 wrote:On June 08 2013 07:00 NTTemplar wrote:On June 08 2013 06:52 Thieving Magpie wrote:On June 08 2013 06:49 JimmiC wrote:
If they didn't want people to think about there boobs, they wouldn't wear outfits that accentuate them. Same way if a man didn't want women to think about his abs he wouldn't take off his shirt. In case you didn't know, people don't dress to please you, they dress to please themselves. Was about to mention this myself having heard quite a few guys say "if she doesn't want me to look, she wouldn't wear it", fully knowing that the majority of girls I know dress like they do since it is comfortable, not to show off. Just like I don't wear tight shirts to "try and show off my body" but because I like clothing that doesn't restrict my movement much like a lot of baggier clothes do, most girls I know at least wear clothes they are comfortable in. Simply put, thinking people dress for you as opposed to wearing something they themselves are comfortable in is a rather ignorant and perhaps selfcentered view in my eyes. It's her freedom to wear whatever she wants, but it's also my freedom to look at her boobs or ass.... Which I also addressed in the post prior to the one you quoted. In the quoted post I was pointing out that just because a girl has some cleavage doesn't mean she wants people to look at her boobs, many times it is simply clothing they are comfortable in. Just like there are women who don't wear bras, not because they want people to see their nipples poking through their shirt, but because there are those who find bras very uncomfortable to wear. I don't care whether she wants me to look or not, it's my freedom to look whenever I want. And I think it's quite obvious most girls dress sexy because they like the attention, not because it's comfortable, or why do you think so many girls like high heels so much? Women wore high heels so that they could be more like powerful men at the time http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21151350Because, it turns out, women like feeling good about themselves. When women at the time all started wearing heels, men stopped wearing high heels and started to make fun of it. Hence why people would laugh if a man walked around in high heels today--because if he did he would look like a woman and its a hilarious thing to them for a man to ever want to be similar to a woman.
high heels make more sense when used by cavalry. interesting.
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On June 08 2013 07:18 TheExile19 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 07:13 theodorus12 wrote:On June 08 2013 07:05 Thieving Magpie wrote:On June 08 2013 07:00 theodorus12 wrote:On June 08 2013 06:59 Thieving Magpie wrote:On June 08 2013 06:58 JimmiC wrote:
"modeling is about having good, in-fashion looks. what do you prefer athletics be about, the decades of training and the competition or how some woman happened to be blessed with talent and looks, the latter by sheer luck of genes?"
Athletics is about the competition, training so on, and for the record many peoples success in athletics has to do with "the sheer luck of genes" No way I can even jump like lebron or be that size no matter the training.
But just because Anna Kornikova got money and fame from her looks she didn't win a single extra match (unless the oppenent was mezmorized by her booty and missed the ball) In fact she never won a tournment.
"
What her looks got her is money through marketing and modeling. So I really don't see your point.
And many a guy has been overated by his looks, or personality, and made more money because of it. Look at Jon fitch in mma because he is boring he made less money then worse MMA atheletes. It's because pro sports are a entertainment buisness, those that entertain, whether it be looks, personality what ever.
ALSO if you want me to be really factual but politically incorrect, outside of a very very very few women stricly athletically speaking you would never watch them because they are worse. Slower, weaker so on. Danica would be a bit of a exception except the fact that she is a women has got her many benifts. On Athletisicm alone she probably would have never made it. No women Basketball player could compete, hockey, soccer, so on.
So by pure athletism womens sports should not exist just one for both genders, where only the best are,and it would be 99.9999999% men. It is posters like this that I wish I could block them from TL... Why? Because he is right and it hurts your feelings? People enjoy watching competition and having those competitions have arbitrary selling points. So whether the competition is Starcraft, Basketball, Magic the Gathering, Football, Chess, Hockey, etc... It doesn't matter what that competition is, there is someone out there who enjoys that sport. There is someone out there who enjoys watching billiards, even if billiard players are not as strong as football players. There are people who enjoy watching Nascar--despite nascar drivers being terrible at running compared to sprinters. There is a niche for everyone and telling those niche groups that their opinions don't count because they don't align with yours is severely xenophobic. You can't compare billiard to football etc. Why would I want to watch lesser (female) players playing a sport, when I could watch the men game and enjoy a better game? It's the same reason no one wants to watch bronze league tournaments. Most of the viewers of female sports most likely only tune in to watch some boobs... think of it as supporting the NA scene if it helps you. I lean towards the highest standard of competition in SC2 myself, but then in bronze league/the NA scene/whatever metaphor you like, the players aren't so hard up for interest or quite so drenched in corporate and consumer apathy that they're convinced that taking off their clothes will drum some viewers up. though, you never know until you try I guess. EG.lingerie [RC]
Being that Day9 got the biggest when he started streaming funday monday and noobie tuesday and got even more recognition when he decided to analyze none-GSL matches. It's obvious that watching "bronze league" play is a very financially successful model.
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We are guys, and most of us are straight, so obviously we aren't looking at male athletes in a sexual way? lol.
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EPT
