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On May 03 2013 02:24 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 02:16 Simberto wrote:On May 03 2013 02:09 Thieving Magpie wrote:On May 03 2013 02:03 Simberto wrote:On May 03 2013 01:49 Thieving Magpie wrote:On May 03 2013 01:45 discomatt wrote:On May 03 2013 01:39 Thieving Magpie wrote:
By controlling female sexuality we maintain the masculine sexual dominance of female ownership. There's a reason we say "rape and pillage" when we talk about war because we equate rape with the act of domination--specifically with masculine domination. "Rape and pillage" is a literal term. It's not uncommon for the civilian population to be tortured/slain/raped after being defeated. Yes... as I said... we equate rape with domination... we kill off the men and have our way with the civilians... ie, domination... There's a reason we call it rape and not really unfortunate sex accident. That is because that is the definition of rape. Rape is forcing sex onto someone. Not an accident. And domination is obviously a large part of that, because you need to be in a dominant position to do that. And the way our bodies work makes it a lot easier for a man to rape someone than for a woman. I am not quite sure what your point is. Because you didn't read what I wrote I will quote myself. we equate rape with the act of domination Discomatt then implied "rape and pillage" is a throwaway phrase only relevant in war. Which is why I said "equate" as in to compare to things and see them as similar. He was responding to my post wherein I was talking about the misogynistic tendencies of american culture to use the term fuck to mean domination--ie rape. As in an event either fucks us over or we fuck over something we dominate. Because we use that rape/fuck mindset in everyday affairs we also project that onto other people--ie rape culture. Where we dominate the feminine with the masculine. I read what you wrote. You are just not making a lot of obvious sense to me. I still don't quite get your point. We equate rape with domination. Yes. That is because domination is a large part of rape. What are you getting at with this? You are stating this like it is some kind of grand discovery. Is your point that fucking/raping something is used as an allegory for domination, which means...something? I'm saying misogyny is about domination--not about how much/little clothes a woman wears or how sexual she is. I'm saying things aren't sexist *because* people who stream are showing their boobs I'm saying it's sexist when women are told how to look and act and defined by how much they fit that standard. I'm saying that misogyny is the domination of the female identity. I'm saying rape, is the domination of the female. I'm saying that terms like "tits or gtfo" is about the domination of the female and phrases like "good job on not being slutty" is the domination of the female. When we set the parameters for how a person should or shouldn't act--we are being misogynists.
So it is misogynist to tell people they shouldn't act misogynist.
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Now I'm fully aware that sexism is an issue. On the internet as much, and in some cases more, than any other place. It's an issue that needs to be dealt with and spreading awareness and telling people what it's like to be on the receiving end is certainly a perfectly valid way to do so.
However I still have some issues with this particular article. The biggest one is that it is based off youtube comments. Basing anything, anything at all, off youtube comments is stupid. Because youtube comments are stupid. They're the ultimate proof of what happens when you give people absolute anonymity and freedom. They go full retard. The only place that comes close in any way is twitch chat.
Here's the thing: if you have a large following on youtube (or twitch) you are going to have a large number of idiots posting the comments that are stupid beyond belief. No exceptions. Man or woman. Black or white. Fat or skinny. If you have a large youtube following you are going to have a large amount of retards posting comments on your video.
I feel like saying sexism is an issue on the internet and posting youtube videos as proof is like going to a white supremacist meeting and bringing up that as proof when saying that racism is an issue in society. Racism is an issue in society, but your limited evidence does little to support it.
I'm glad she took the time and effort to try to highlight issues of sexism on the internet, I just don't think she managed to highlight any real issue.
Secondly I think it's highly ironic that this is being posted on kotaku. The site that I'm guessing stays afloat only due to it's regular postings of women cosplaying scantily clad female video game characters. God knows it's not because of their quality journalism.
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about the rape following a win (in battle, match, or w/e) it's was not done as an act of dominance. the winers already dominated the losers, dominating the weaker sex too would not be at all fulfilling.
raping was just a way to spread the genes, the genes of the winers. it's what lions are still doing now.
it's a basic evolutionary mechanic shared by some species: come, conquer, kill infants, spread own genes, defend them as much as you can or until you are ousted.
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On May 03 2013 02:24 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 02:16 Simberto wrote:On May 03 2013 02:09 Thieving Magpie wrote:On May 03 2013 02:03 Simberto wrote:On May 03 2013 01:49 Thieving Magpie wrote:On May 03 2013 01:45 discomatt wrote:On May 03 2013 01:39 Thieving Magpie wrote:
By controlling female sexuality we maintain the masculine sexual dominance of female ownership. There's a reason we say "rape and pillage" when we talk about war because we equate rape with the act of domination--specifically with masculine domination. "Rape and pillage" is a literal term. It's not uncommon for the civilian population to be tortured/slain/raped after being defeated. Yes... as I said... we equate rape with domination... we kill off the men and have our way with the civilians... ie, domination... There's a reason we call it rape and not really unfortunate sex accident. That is because that is the definition of rape. Rape is forcing sex onto someone. Not an accident. And domination is obviously a large part of that, because you need to be in a dominant position to do that. And the way our bodies work makes it a lot easier for a man to rape someone than for a woman. I am not quite sure what your point is. Because you didn't read what I wrote I will quote myself. we equate rape with the act of domination Discomatt then implied "rape and pillage" is a throwaway phrase only relevant in war. Which is why I said "equate" as in to compare to things and see them as similar. He was responding to my post wherein I was talking about the misogynistic tendencies of american culture to use the term fuck to mean domination--ie rape. As in an event either fucks us over or we fuck over something we dominate. Because we use that rape/fuck mindset in everyday affairs we also project that onto other people--ie rape culture. Where we dominate the feminine with the masculine. I read what you wrote. You are just not making a lot of obvious sense to me. I still don't quite get your point. We equate rape with domination. Yes. That is because domination is a large part of rape. What are you getting at with this? You are stating this like it is some kind of grand discovery. Is your point that fucking/raping something is used as an allegory for domination, which means...something? I'm saying misogyny is about domination--not about how much/little clothes a woman wears or how sexual she is. I'm saying things aren't sexist *because* people who stream are showing their boobs I'm saying it's sexist when women are told how to look and act and defined by how much they fit that standard. I'm saying that misogyny is the domination of the female identity. I'm saying rape, is the domination of the female. I'm saying that terms like "tits or gtfo" is about the domination of the female and phrases like "good job on not being slutty" is the domination of the female. When we set the parameters for how a person should or shouldn't act--we are being misogynists.
Ah, ok, i now understand your point. Though i don't really agree. Setting parameters of what is ok or not is how society works. Not only for women, but also for men. The general concept is not a bad thing, either. It is generally better for a society if all people adhere to some rules.
The point worth arguing is in which areas the parameters should be set, and in which not. Noones has a problem with forcing a man to wear a suit in certain jobs. Apparently the problematic point is not forcing people to look/act a specific way, but doing that when it is somehow related to sexuality.
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On May 03 2013 02:35 Mothra wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 02:24 Thieving Magpie wrote:On May 03 2013 02:16 Simberto wrote:On May 03 2013 02:09 Thieving Magpie wrote:On May 03 2013 02:03 Simberto wrote:On May 03 2013 01:49 Thieving Magpie wrote:On May 03 2013 01:45 discomatt wrote:On May 03 2013 01:39 Thieving Magpie wrote:
By controlling female sexuality we maintain the masculine sexual dominance of female ownership. There's a reason we say "rape and pillage" when we talk about war because we equate rape with the act of domination--specifically with masculine domination. "Rape and pillage" is a literal term. It's not uncommon for the civilian population to be tortured/slain/raped after being defeated. Yes... as I said... we equate rape with domination... we kill off the men and have our way with the civilians... ie, domination... There's a reason we call it rape and not really unfortunate sex accident. That is because that is the definition of rape. Rape is forcing sex onto someone. Not an accident. And domination is obviously a large part of that, because you need to be in a dominant position to do that. And the way our bodies work makes it a lot easier for a man to rape someone than for a woman. I am not quite sure what your point is. Because you didn't read what I wrote I will quote myself. we equate rape with the act of domination Discomatt then implied "rape and pillage" is a throwaway phrase only relevant in war. Which is why I said "equate" as in to compare to things and see them as similar. He was responding to my post wherein I was talking about the misogynistic tendencies of american culture to use the term fuck to mean domination--ie rape. As in an event either fucks us over or we fuck over something we dominate. Because we use that rape/fuck mindset in everyday affairs we also project that onto other people--ie rape culture. Where we dominate the feminine with the masculine. I read what you wrote. You are just not making a lot of obvious sense to me. I still don't quite get your point. We equate rape with domination. Yes. That is because domination is a large part of rape. What are you getting at with this? You are stating this like it is some kind of grand discovery. Is your point that fucking/raping something is used as an allegory for domination, which means...something? I'm saying misogyny is about domination--not about how much/little clothes a woman wears or how sexual she is. I'm saying things aren't sexist *because* people who stream are showing their boobs I'm saying it's sexist when women are told how to look and act and defined by how much they fit that standard. I'm saying that misogyny is the domination of the female identity. I'm saying rape, is the domination of the female. I'm saying that terms like "tits or gtfo" is about the domination of the female and phrases like "good job on not being slutty" is the domination of the female. When we set the parameters for how a person should or shouldn't act--we are being misogynists. So it is misogynist to tell people they shouldn't act misogynist.
When you are telling a woman how she should behave/dress/act/be instead of letting her just be herself be it slutty or prudish--you're being misogynistic. Because you are dominating her ability to be her own person.
If she wants to get on twitch, take off her top and ask guys to tell her how sexy she is--then it's her right to do it.
If she wants to just stream herself playing mario games--then its her right to do it.
People who try to shame a woman who loves having sex by calling her a slut is misogynistic because they are dictating how that person should act.
People who try to shame a woman who likes playing videogames as being a prude for not showing her tits are being misogynistic because they are dictating how that person should act.
Telling someone not be misogynistic has nothing to do with telling them how to be a person. It is telling them that they are intruding on someone's rights. When I tell them to stop being misogynistic they don't need to change their style of clothes, the way they present themselves, their sexual activity, their anything. It literally is telling them to stop attacking another human being.
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11589 Posts
On May 03 2013 01:36 Jojo131 wrote:
If you're a girl with a YouTube channel, you'll get shat on.
If you're a fat person with a YouTube channel, you'll get shat on.
If you're a black/asian/Pakistani/etc guy with a YouTube channel, you'll get shat on.
If you're a gay guy with a YouTube channel, you'll get shat on.
If you're just a regular guy with a YouTube channel, you'll STILL get shat on.
What I hate about this article is that it's suggesting that the world/internet needs to make some special exception for women because "sexism on the internet" is somehow worse or requires more action compared to all the other reasons someone could be shitting on you over the internet like racism, fat intolerance, homophobia etc.
Nobody gives a shit when people rip on Boogie2988 for being overweight, or for ZJemptv's sexual identity, so why do people care when it comes to people ripping on girl123 for being a girl?
The internet is literally the one place where "comments" made against you probably shouldn't be taken seriously. Most of the time people already know this, then other times... articles like this.
The issue is that none of that should be acceptable, yet it is obviously a product of human interaction that occurs on a regular basis.
By no means is this a "special case", it's simply highlighting one of the worst, most pervasive -isms in our society today.
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On May 02 2013 19:05 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 19:02 ShiroKaisen wrote:On May 02 2013 18:59 MasterOfPuppets wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Before I record the videos I create for various different companies I change my shirt from the loosely fitting singlet I usually wear during the day, to a high-collared t-shirt that will minimise my chances of being objectified. It’s less comfortable, it’s not what I would generally choose to wear, but I do it in attempt to avoid comments about my breasts, my chest, and my physique in general – I try to negate any harassment I possibly can.
So you purposefully make yourself physically uncomfortable and repress a little of your sexuality because you're bothered by random internet users? Seriously? Are you new to the internet? Do you not understand how this thing works? That's like IdrA not playing StarCraft anymore because someone told him he's not a good player. lmao
Obviously, it doesn’t work. Instead of having people disregard gender entirely as it really shouldn’t be relevant to a video about game news, there are streams of responses from men complaining that a woman hasn’t revealed herself to them, as though it’s expected or it’s their right to ask for that. Not only is this incredibly discouraging – these videos take hours and hours of effort to create – it’s easy to feel like you simply can’t win. You can only ignore the comments, but that would make responding to the pleasant viewers or the ones who ask genuine questions impossible.
Nope. It's not impossible. Many people manage to ignore trolls and uneducated children, even on Twitch whose chat is a cancerous cesspool, or YouTube comments ffs.
If jerks on the internet are given a free-pass and allowed to hide behind anonymity when they’re being sexist to someone, then there’s absolutely no reason you can’t use that same anonymity to criticise or educate them. Honestly, just seeing one down-vote or having one person stick up for me is a part of the reason I’m still here and I’m not going to stop fighting. Every single person has the power to fight sexism.
Is this woman stupid? People on the internet are given a free-pass to do and say far more than just being sexist to some uptight, sensitive and easily-offended woman like her who apparently doesn't understand how the internet works or that you can't censor it. I mean lmao, I'm not a big deal, but in my many years of competitive gaming I've had hundreds if not thousands of people call me a no-life, a basement dweller, a loser (all of which baseless assumptions ofc) and wishing things like death and cancer and rape on me and my family, JUST BECAUSE I BEAT THEM AT VIDEO GAMES. Do you think that affected me in any way, shape or form? No lol. I just laugh and brush it off, and it even makes me feel better about myself that these people are so easily irritated. Protip to her: stop being butthurt, either get off the Internet or learn to deal with. Seriously. Re-assess your life: does it really mean that much to you that some kiddies on the other side of the world purposefully post mean or "sexist" things about you just to get you riled up? Because you're kinda getting trolled here hun, getting trolled big time if you acknowledge their presence. So because it sucks, we shouldn't complain about it and try to change it? That's a shitty attitude. If you complain about it, the trolls have won. Trying to change it on any wide scale is futile, it's simply not going to happen. You can have a well-moderated community like TL, of course, where these people are banned without a second thought, but you will never exterminate this from the Internet, you simply can't.
That's such a terribly defeatist attitude. Even if you can't win, not putting in an effort at all is just stupid and lazy.
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Northern Ireland23745 Posts
Nobody is saying they don't have a right to do it. Most aren't saying they shouldn't show tits either. Not sure where you're getting that from
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On May 03 2013 02:39 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 02:24 Thieving Magpie wrote:On May 03 2013 02:16 Simberto wrote:On May 03 2013 02:09 Thieving Magpie wrote:On May 03 2013 02:03 Simberto wrote:On May 03 2013 01:49 Thieving Magpie wrote:On May 03 2013 01:45 discomatt wrote:On May 03 2013 01:39 Thieving Magpie wrote:
By controlling female sexuality we maintain the masculine sexual dominance of female ownership. There's a reason we say "rape and pillage" when we talk about war because we equate rape with the act of domination--specifically with masculine domination. "Rape and pillage" is a literal term. It's not uncommon for the civilian population to be tortured/slain/raped after being defeated. Yes... as I said... we equate rape with domination... we kill off the men and have our way with the civilians... ie, domination... There's a reason we call it rape and not really unfortunate sex accident. That is because that is the definition of rape. Rape is forcing sex onto someone. Not an accident. And domination is obviously a large part of that, because you need to be in a dominant position to do that. And the way our bodies work makes it a lot easier for a man to rape someone than for a woman. I am not quite sure what your point is. Because you didn't read what I wrote I will quote myself. we equate rape with the act of domination Discomatt then implied "rape and pillage" is a throwaway phrase only relevant in war. Which is why I said "equate" as in to compare to things and see them as similar. He was responding to my post wherein I was talking about the misogynistic tendencies of american culture to use the term fuck to mean domination--ie rape. As in an event either fucks us over or we fuck over something we dominate. Because we use that rape/fuck mindset in everyday affairs we also project that onto other people--ie rape culture. Where we dominate the feminine with the masculine. I read what you wrote. You are just not making a lot of obvious sense to me. I still don't quite get your point. We equate rape with domination. Yes. That is because domination is a large part of rape. What are you getting at with this? You are stating this like it is some kind of grand discovery. Is your point that fucking/raping something is used as an allegory for domination, which means...something? I'm saying misogyny is about domination--not about how much/little clothes a woman wears or how sexual she is. I'm saying things aren't sexist *because* people who stream are showing their boobs I'm saying it's sexist when women are told how to look and act and defined by how much they fit that standard. I'm saying that misogyny is the domination of the female identity. I'm saying rape, is the domination of the female. I'm saying that terms like "tits or gtfo" is about the domination of the female and phrases like "good job on not being slutty" is the domination of the female. When we set the parameters for how a person should or shouldn't act--we are being misogynists. Ah, ok, i now understand your point. Though i don't really agree. Setting parameters of what is ok or not is how society works. Not only for women, but also for men. The general concept is not a bad thing, either. It is generally better for a society if all people adhere to some rules. The point worth arguing is in which areas the parameters should be set, and in which not. Noones has a problem with forcing a man to wear a suit in certain jobs. Apparently the problematic point is not forcing people to look/act a specific way, but doing that when it is somehow related to sexuality.
Parameters will always be a gray area. But just to show a point, I set in bold your comment about "noones has a problem with forcing a man to wear a suit in certain jobs."
That is part of celebrating the masculine.
A man has to wear a suit, a woman can either wear a suit or a dress. But a man can't wear a dress--that is considered weird. Why? Because it is seen as weaker. Women are allowed to wear a dress because they are seen as weaker.
In the end, neither the man nor the woman prefers to wear a suit and they'd much rather wear a shirt and jeans--but because we live in a society where masculine and feminine norms need to be emphasized and segregated, we end up with silly rules like men can't wear dresses (or be deemed weird) and women can't show cleavage (or be deemed a slut).
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On May 03 2013 02:41 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 02:35 Mothra wrote:On May 03 2013 02:24 Thieving Magpie wrote:On May 03 2013 02:16 Simberto wrote:On May 03 2013 02:09 Thieving Magpie wrote:On May 03 2013 02:03 Simberto wrote:On May 03 2013 01:49 Thieving Magpie wrote:On May 03 2013 01:45 discomatt wrote:On May 03 2013 01:39 Thieving Magpie wrote:
By controlling female sexuality we maintain the masculine sexual dominance of female ownership. There's a reason we say "rape and pillage" when we talk about war because we equate rape with the act of domination--specifically with masculine domination. "Rape and pillage" is a literal term. It's not uncommon for the civilian population to be tortured/slain/raped after being defeated. Yes... as I said... we equate rape with domination... we kill off the men and have our way with the civilians... ie, domination... There's a reason we call it rape and not really unfortunate sex accident. That is because that is the definition of rape. Rape is forcing sex onto someone. Not an accident. And domination is obviously a large part of that, because you need to be in a dominant position to do that. And the way our bodies work makes it a lot easier for a man to rape someone than for a woman. I am not quite sure what your point is. Because you didn't read what I wrote I will quote myself. we equate rape with the act of domination Discomatt then implied "rape and pillage" is a throwaway phrase only relevant in war. Which is why I said "equate" as in to compare to things and see them as similar. He was responding to my post wherein I was talking about the misogynistic tendencies of american culture to use the term fuck to mean domination--ie rape. As in an event either fucks us over or we fuck over something we dominate. Because we use that rape/fuck mindset in everyday affairs we also project that onto other people--ie rape culture. Where we dominate the feminine with the masculine. I read what you wrote. You are just not making a lot of obvious sense to me. I still don't quite get your point. We equate rape with domination. Yes. That is because domination is a large part of rape. What are you getting at with this? You are stating this like it is some kind of grand discovery. Is your point that fucking/raping something is used as an allegory for domination, which means...something? I'm saying misogyny is about domination--not about how much/little clothes a woman wears or how sexual she is. I'm saying things aren't sexist *because* people who stream are showing their boobs I'm saying it's sexist when women are told how to look and act and defined by how much they fit that standard. I'm saying that misogyny is the domination of the female identity. I'm saying rape, is the domination of the female. I'm saying that terms like "tits or gtfo" is about the domination of the female and phrases like "good job on not being slutty" is the domination of the female. When we set the parameters for how a person should or shouldn't act--we are being misogynists. So it is misogynist to tell people they shouldn't act misogynist. When you are telling a woman how she should behave/dress/act/be instead of letting her just be herself be it slutty or prudish--you're being misogynistic. Because you are dominating her ability to be her own person. If she wants to get on twitch, take off her top and ask guys to tell her how sexy she is--then it's her right to do it. If she wants to just stream herself playing mario games--then its her right to do it. People who try to shame a woman who loves having sex by calling her a slut is misogynistic because they are dictating how that person should act. People who try to shame a woman who likes playing videogames as being a prude for not showing her tits are being misogynistic because they are dictating how that person should act. Telling someone not be misogynistic has nothing to do with telling them how to be a person. It is telling them that they are intruding on someone's rights. When I tell them to stop being misogynistic they don't need to change their style of clothes, the way they present themselves, their sexual activity, their anything. It literally is telling them to stop attacking another human being.
Hmm, but their misogynistic ways is a part of who they are and probably falls under the "their anything" category. Not being able to tolerate intolerance is intolerance in itself.
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I think the reason for e-misogyny lies deep in the society in general. Backlash of sorts.
It's well known phenomenon and hard to fix. It's one of the things that annoy me especially much in internet based communities and therefore I personally stay a good distance away from any of them. You can enjoy your favourite pastimes without mass suggestion.
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11589 Posts
On May 03 2013 01:06 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 00:51 yamato77 wrote:
The fact that this thread has devolved to the point that people are placing blame on the woman who "puts herself out there" is quite discouraging for my opinion on the intelligence of the average TL forum goer. It's not a question of her conforming to the norms that internet society has created, it is a question of those norms at their base. There is no denying that females are regularly objectified on the internet. This practice is wrong, and it should be stopped.
Why?
Let me explain it as a series of questions.
Do you think women enjoy video games? If not, you're out of touch with reality. This is obvious.
Why do you think women enjoy video games? Do you think it's for the same reasons as men? Again, obviously. Not only are video games entertainment, but they have developed into being community facilitators. People develop games not only technologically now, but socially. Denying this is to ignore the immense popularity of games that create interaction. Any multiplayer game is inherently social.
So why should video game culture be exclusive to men? If women enjoy video games, why are they excluded from being a part of the social communities we create, whether that be YouTube contributors, Twitch streamers, TL writers, or even professional players? If you don't think they are excluded, read her article. It's not an isolated incident. If she can be driven to the point of nearly giving up on attempting to be a part of this gaming community by the comments and messages she is sent, it's painfully obvious that many other women feel the same way, and either haven't said anything or are being ignored.
Do you know what keeps the professional players, the casters, and the content creators going in their pursuit of achieving in a career in gaming? It's the fans. It's all of us, who are a de facto support system for those pioneers of gaming culture who provide the content we enjoy. People like Sean Plott keep making content for StarCraft not because there's money in it, whether there is or not, they keep making it because of their passion for the game, and for us, the fans. Our positive feedback keeps them motivated.
If all you're ever receiving is negative or degrading feedback, such as the comments of those articles, you will quit. If you don't, you'll be driven insane. Understand the lengths to which this woman went to NOT get objectified by this community. And it didn't work. Do you feel like this is acceptable? We at TL pride ourselves for being better than the average gaming community, and for the large part, we are. But reading this thread has made me realize that there are some biases that we still hold, and sexism is obviously one of them.
You all rationalize the wrongs she experiences on a day-to-day basis with "That's just the internet, of course people are going to say those things! She should ignore them, or accept them, because that's how the internet is." Why? Why should the internet be sexist? These comments reveal an ugly truth, that sexism is still pervasive in our society, but it's taken a new form. Just as it was legislated against and not tolerated in the physical world, we must not tolerate it in this digital one.
So next time, instead of accepting this as the norm of internet society, reject that idea. You are just as much a part of the internet as that guy who said he'd cum on her forehead. And if you don't reject that behavior and accept females int gaming culture, and the internet as a whole, you might as well be that guy. Is that who you want to be? Are games truly appealing to women though? Specifically online gaming, which more often than not is inherently a competitive experience. These types of games bring out the competitive drive of men and caress or bruise egos, which can lead to rather terrible verbal confrontations. In any case, maybe it's just me but I've always had this view that in general men are more competitive than women, maybe that's entirely wrong and I'm misinformed. Also I don't think it's a stretch to say that games like Gears of War or Call of Duty are very much more appealing to males than females. I do think that sexism is pretty out of control on the internet (the OP is a perfect example), but I think that isn't the only thing keeping women out of gaming, it's just the majority of games that are popular are far more appealing to dudes. On a side note, you'd think gamers would WANT more women in the entertainment medium though.....
Women play games, and they enjoy them just as much as men do. The problem, as you point out here, is that most games are marketed toward men, and they are the most visible and popular ones. However, there are reasonable female populations in games like World of Warcraft and league of Legends that also include marketing elements that target women.
Games are competitive, yes, but women can also be competitive. Males are more often conditioned to be competitive, but the existence of women's sports includes the notion that they can be competitive just as well. Also, some games have both competitive and social elements within them, and it is more often than not the social aspect of a game that initially draws the female gamer to participate in it.
I do agree with your last notion there; why exclude women from gaming? Wouldn't it be awesome if your wife or girlfriend could enjoy playing video games with you, and was a part of the same community of gamers that you belong to? Yet the pervasive sexism in the culture of gamers restricts that as an overt possibility.
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On May 03 2013 02:28 LOveRH wrote:
This makes me sad but this also happens to both men and women. I read articles that even politicians, men and woman have to dress a certain way and it could be a difference between losing and winning. Pretty sad when you could be campaigning for something meaningful and the only thing people will vote for you for is how good you look in your clothes.
I think what guys forget is that women (from a girls point of view) can be a lot more sensitive to online harassment then dudes are. I have been sexually harassed over the internet many times and some of it can be brushed off but sometimes it really does cross a line. I been fortunate enough to play games where if someone is incredibility offensive i can ask a GM to ban that person (with proof). I don't mind guys being guys but some stuff should really not be tolerated or ignored.
I think both men and woman need to understand that even on the internet we are still human. Things can effect us just as much as real life if it hits a nerve. It's sad that on Youtube and other places its, kinda like monkey-see-monkey-do. They see people saying nasty things and they think that's what people do. It's an endless cycle of bullshit. I think the best way to stop this is for everyone to wake up and try not to be total dicks over the internet.
i think you are quite the idealist. People fail to understand that hungry children in Africa, who are shown on pictures are human and you expect them to see a human in a random username+wall of text?
@topic: yes, sexism in the internet is retarded, can be disgusting and in the gaming industry, where most of the people are men it isnt rare. But ignoring them is the only useful way to handle it, making a thread about it will only make it worse.
If you are provoked by jerks in reality there are two ways of dealing with it: punching/punishing the provoking person so hard he never tries that again, or ignoring him, which will make them loose interest. Obviously you can't do the first thing in the internet, so ignoring them is the only solution.
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United States41937 Posts
On May 03 2013 02:38 xM(Z wrote:
about the rape following a win (in battle, match, or w/e) it's was not done as an act of dominance. the winers already dominated the losers, dominating the weaker sex too would not be at all fulfilling.
raping was just a way to spread the genes, the genes of the winers. it's what lions are still doing now.
it's a basic evolutionary mechanic shared by some species: come, conquer, kill infants, spread own genes, defend them as much as you can or until you are ousted.
Humans aren't lions.
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I'm pretty sure all the chronic complaining and constantly playing the victim is helping these gals overcome sexist stereotypes about women....
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On May 03 2013 02:49 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 02:38 xM(Z wrote:
about the rape following a win (in battle, match, or w/e) it's was not done as an act of dominance. the winers already dominated the losers, dominating the weaker sex too would not be at all fulfilling.
raping was just a way to spread the genes, the genes of the winers. it's what lions are still doing now.
it's a basic evolutionary mechanic shared by some species: come, conquer, kill infants, spread own genes, defend them as much as you can or until you are ousted. Humans aren't lions.
Lions don't really rape either--that's ducks.
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On May 03 2013 02:50 Zaqwert wrote:
I'm pretty sure all the chronic complaining and constantly playing the victim is helping these gals overcome sexist stereotypes about women....
I'm pretty sure all the chronic complaining and constantly playing the victim is helping these men excuse their objectification of women.......
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On May 03 2013 02:52 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 02:50 Zaqwert wrote:
I'm pretty sure all the chronic complaining and constantly playing the victim is helping these gals overcome sexist stereotypes about women.... I'm pretty sure all the chronic complaining and constantly playing the victim is helping these men excuse their objectification of women.......
why does it need excused if its the way they really feel about it?
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United States41937 Posts
On May 03 2013 02:50 Zaqwert wrote:
I'm pretty sure all the chronic complaining and constantly playing the victim is helping these gals overcome sexist stereotypes about women....
Care to add "she's overreacting" or would you rather not go full cliche?
If someone is being victimised then bringing attention to it is not playing the victim, it is being the victim. This shouldn't need explaining but apparently it does so here we are. I really dislike sharing tl with the likes of you.
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On May 03 2013 02:49 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 02:38 xM(Z wrote:
about the rape following a win (in battle, match, or w/e) it's was not done as an act of dominance. the winers already dominated the losers, dominating the weaker sex too would not be at all fulfilling.
raping was just a way to spread the genes, the genes of the winers. it's what lions are still doing now.
it's a basic evolutionary mechanic shared by some species: come, conquer, kill infants, spread own genes, defend them as much as you can or until you are ousted. Humans aren't lions.
humans aren't aliens either. the same evolutionary mechanics are shared by different species just because.
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EPT
