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On December 08 2013 02:11 0x64 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2013 01:59 Shival wrote:On December 08 2013 01:30 udgnim wrote:
been thinking about throwing 1K at bit coin
where should I purchase BTC? mtgox.com?
who provides quickest BTC > USD? Takes a while to get verified, but I would recommend waiting until the market has calmed down again. There's still alot of panicked selling going on. Hmmm mtgox is the priciest one to buy from and they have hard tie dealing with high volume on short periods. For buying, maybe bitstamp or btc-e. Maybe someone can give more information from which you should buy.
he is from USA. maybe campbx is another choice.
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On December 06 2013 03:38 Chrono000 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2013 03:21 Warent wrote:On December 06 2013 01:33 0x64 wrote:
My rhetorical question is: "What is the worst thing that can happen to you if the BTC is widely accepted?" Hm... let's see. Regression, followed by global depression, high unemployment and riots, eventually a third world war (probably financed by a new fiat currency). In order to understand how this work it is of vital importance to understand the key concept of what money is - and why we need it. It's furthermore important to understand why a deflationary currency would be bad, with a big b. The currency will be controlled by those who have most of it - and to increase the value of something you have lots of - you spend less - thus reducing the effective supply of money. The following consequence is that even fewer will spend their money as they keep increasing in relative value more quickly. Eventually trade stops and unemployment follows. Why isn't this happening today you may ask yourself? And the answer is inflation. If you want to keep your wealth in today's system you have to invest it, either indirectly through fractional banking or directly into projects or companies whom create value for their customers. we been using inflationary money since forever and it always fails. u should be rewarded for saving no punished. another point is inflation forcing people to speculate and invest. i know now its much easier to invest when u have money but when u are scrapping by its pretty fucking god damn hard, i tell u. one mistake on your investment and it could screw your life (real estate) Read a little: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/08/the-average-life-expectancy-for-a-fiat-currency-is-27-years-every-30-to-40-years-the-reigning-monetary-system-fails-and-has-to-be-retooled.htmlA graphs: http://blog.elliottwavetechnician.com/2013/10/the-life-span-of-reserve-currency-status.htmlit is mind boggling the amount of turmoil and waste of resources it is to keep resetting the global currency. another point is fiat paper/plastic money is extremely wasteful to create manage and control. im believe its useful but would probably be better if we toned this dinosaur crap back.
First, regarding inflation: You are wrong. I explained the consequences of a mass saving mentality in my above post, it is really not that hard, if everyone saves no one trades and soon we will all be farmers again. Fiat money always failed you say? Funny how some of the most "successful" societies have been backed by so called fiat money. Some contribute the fall of the roman republic to the switch from brass and copper money, given out by the government, to gold money controlled by the rich. Whoever controls the supply of money controls the economy. The age following the fall of the roman empire is, unless I'm mistaken, called the dark ages. During these times precious metals where the major currency.
Secondly. Paper money and coins wasteful? Is this even a serious argument? How much selectivity to mine a bitcoin did you say?
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On December 08 2013 19:49 Warent wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2013 03:38 Chrono000 wrote:On December 06 2013 03:21 Warent wrote:On December 06 2013 01:33 0x64 wrote:
My rhetorical question is: "What is the worst thing that can happen to you if the BTC is widely accepted?" Hm... let's see. Regression, followed by global depression, high unemployment and riots, eventually a third world war (probably financed by a new fiat currency). In order to understand how this work it is of vital importance to understand the key concept of what money is - and why we need it. It's furthermore important to understand why a deflationary currency would be bad, with a big b. The currency will be controlled by those who have most of it - and to increase the value of something you have lots of - you spend less - thus reducing the effective supply of money. The following consequence is that even fewer will spend their money as they keep increasing in relative value more quickly. Eventually trade stops and unemployment follows. Why isn't this happening today you may ask yourself? And the answer is inflation. If you want to keep your wealth in today's system you have to invest it, either indirectly through fractional banking or directly into projects or companies whom create value for their customers. we been using inflationary money since forever and it always fails. u should be rewarded for saving no punished. another point is inflation forcing people to speculate and invest. i know now its much easier to invest when u have money but when u are scrapping by its pretty fucking god damn hard, i tell u. one mistake on your investment and it could screw your life (real estate) Read a little: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/08/the-average-life-expectancy-for-a-fiat-currency-is-27-years-every-30-to-40-years-the-reigning-monetary-system-fails-and-has-to-be-retooled.htmlA graphs: http://blog.elliottwavetechnician.com/2013/10/the-life-span-of-reserve-currency-status.htmlit is mind boggling the amount of turmoil and waste of resources it is to keep resetting the global currency. another point is fiat paper/plastic money is extremely wasteful to create manage and control. im believe its useful but would probably be better if we toned this dinosaur crap back. First, regarding inflation: You are wrong. I explained the consequences of a mass saving mentality in my above post, it is really not that hard, if everyone saves no one trades and soon we will all be farmers again. Fiat money always failed you say? Funny how some of the most "successful" societies have been backed by so called fiat money. Some contribute the fall of the roman republic to the switch from brass and copper money, given out by the government, to gold money controlled by the rich. Whoever controls the supply of money controls the economy. The age following the fall of the roman empire is, unless I'm mistaken, called the dark ages. During these times precious metals where the major currency. Secondly. Paper money and coins wasteful? Is this even a serious argument? How much selectivity to mine a bitcoin did you say?
simply put i disagree.
people still need to eat, have shelter, pleasure and the many basics. btc been around for nearly 5 years now and so far the stats show that each time the prices reach a peak (even during a rise) people spend bitcoin. believe it or not but people do like to spend.
paper money and coins design, productions, management, storage, security, travel, dispensing facilitates and maintenance of old and new money, plus huge amounts of counterfeiting going on = much waste. digital like digital has done many time before saves us waste. let us move forward.
holy crap price at 760 0_0
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On December 08 2013 21:04 Chrono000 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2013 19:49 Warent wrote:On December 06 2013 03:38 Chrono000 wrote:On December 06 2013 03:21 Warent wrote:On December 06 2013 01:33 0x64 wrote:
My rhetorical question is: "What is the worst thing that can happen to you if the BTC is widely accepted?" Hm... let's see. Regression, followed by global depression, high unemployment and riots, eventually a third world war (probably financed by a new fiat currency). In order to understand how this work it is of vital importance to understand the key concept of what money is - and why we need it. It's furthermore important to understand why a deflationary currency would be bad, with a big b. The currency will be controlled by those who have most of it - and to increase the value of something you have lots of - you spend less - thus reducing the effective supply of money. The following consequence is that even fewer will spend their money as they keep increasing in relative value more quickly. Eventually trade stops and unemployment follows. Why isn't this happening today you may ask yourself? And the answer is inflation. If you want to keep your wealth in today's system you have to invest it, either indirectly through fractional banking or directly into projects or companies whom create value for their customers. we been using inflationary money since forever and it always fails. u should be rewarded for saving no punished. another point is inflation forcing people to speculate and invest. i know now its much easier to invest when u have money but when u are scrapping by its pretty fucking god damn hard, i tell u. one mistake on your investment and it could screw your life (real estate) Read a little: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/08/the-average-life-expectancy-for-a-fiat-currency-is-27-years-every-30-to-40-years-the-reigning-monetary-system-fails-and-has-to-be-retooled.htmlA graphs: http://blog.elliottwavetechnician.com/2013/10/the-life-span-of-reserve-currency-status.htmlit is mind boggling the amount of turmoil and waste of resources it is to keep resetting the global currency. another point is fiat paper/plastic money is extremely wasteful to create manage and control. im believe its useful but would probably be better if we toned this dinosaur crap back. First, regarding inflation: You are wrong. I explained the consequences of a mass saving mentality in my above post, it is really not that hard, if everyone saves no one trades and soon we will all be farmers again. Fiat money always failed you say? Funny how some of the most "successful" societies have been backed by so called fiat money. Some contribute the fall of the roman republic to the switch from brass and copper money, given out by the government, to gold money controlled by the rich. Whoever controls the supply of money controls the economy. The age following the fall of the roman empire is, unless I'm mistaken, called the dark ages. During these times precious metals where the major currency. Secondly. Paper money and coins wasteful? Is this even a serious argument? How much selectivity to mine a bitcoin did you say? simply put i disagree. people still need to eat, have shelter, pleasure and the many basics. btc been around for nearly 5 years now and so far the stats show that each time the prices reach a peak (even during a rise) people spend bitcoin. believe it or not but people do like to spend. paper money and coins design, productions, management, storage, security, travel, dispensing facilitates and maintenance of old and new money, plus huge amounts of counterfeiting going on = much waste. digital like digital has done many time before saves us waste. let us move forward. holy crap price at 760 0_0
You really don't understand economics. None in their right minds would their invest money into companies if they can simply hog bitcoin to have a higher return on their investment. This puts a damper on economic growth and thus recession, into unemployment, into a failed state. That's what would happen, simply put.
And again, stop hyping the coin. Price has been on average at 760 for more than a day. It's moreover turning down a bit again.
Correction: It's dropping like a stone. 700 now. Massive wall of 900 bitcoins placed at 700 now.
http://bitcoinwisdom.com/
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On December 08 2013 21:13 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2013 21:04 Chrono000 wrote:On December 08 2013 19:49 Warent wrote:On December 06 2013 03:38 Chrono000 wrote:On December 06 2013 03:21 Warent wrote:On December 06 2013 01:33 0x64 wrote:
My rhetorical question is: "What is the worst thing that can happen to you if the BTC is widely accepted?" Hm... let's see. Regression, followed by global depression, high unemployment and riots, eventually a third world war (probably financed by a new fiat currency). In order to understand how this work it is of vital importance to understand the key concept of what money is - and why we need it. It's furthermore important to understand why a deflationary currency would be bad, with a big b. The currency will be controlled by those who have most of it - and to increase the value of something you have lots of - you spend less - thus reducing the effective supply of money. The following consequence is that even fewer will spend their money as they keep increasing in relative value more quickly. Eventually trade stops and unemployment follows. Why isn't this happening today you may ask yourself? And the answer is inflation. If you want to keep your wealth in today's system you have to invest it, either indirectly through fractional banking or directly into projects or companies whom create value for their customers. we been using inflationary money since forever and it always fails. u should be rewarded for saving no punished. another point is inflation forcing people to speculate and invest. i know now its much easier to invest when u have money but when u are scrapping by its pretty fucking god damn hard, i tell u. one mistake on your investment and it could screw your life (real estate) Read a little: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/08/the-average-life-expectancy-for-a-fiat-currency-is-27-years-every-30-to-40-years-the-reigning-monetary-system-fails-and-has-to-be-retooled.htmlA graphs: http://blog.elliottwavetechnician.com/2013/10/the-life-span-of-reserve-currency-status.htmlit is mind boggling the amount of turmoil and waste of resources it is to keep resetting the global currency. another point is fiat paper/plastic money is extremely wasteful to create manage and control. im believe its useful but would probably be better if we toned this dinosaur crap back. First, regarding inflation: You are wrong. I explained the consequences of a mass saving mentality in my above post, it is really not that hard, if everyone saves no one trades and soon we will all be farmers again. Fiat money always failed you say? Funny how some of the most "successful" societies have been backed by so called fiat money. Some contribute the fall of the roman republic to the switch from brass and copper money, given out by the government, to gold money controlled by the rich. Whoever controls the supply of money controls the economy. The age following the fall of the roman empire is, unless I'm mistaken, called the dark ages. During these times precious metals where the major currency. Secondly. Paper money and coins wasteful? Is this even a serious argument? How much selectivity to mine a bitcoin did you say? simply put i disagree. people still need to eat, have shelter, pleasure and the many basics. btc been around for nearly 5 years now and so far the stats show that each time the prices reach a peak (even during a rise) people spend bitcoin. believe it or not but people do like to spend. paper money and coins design, productions, management, storage, security, travel, dispensing facilitates and maintenance of old and new money, plus huge amounts of counterfeiting going on = much waste. digital like digital has done many time before saves us waste. let us move forward. holy crap price at 760 0_0 You really don't understand economics. None in their right minds would their invest money into companies if they can simply hog bitcoin to have a higher return on their investment. This puts a damper on economic growth and thus recession, into unemployment, into a failed state. That's what would happen, simply put. And again, stop hyping the coin. Price has been on average at 760 for more than a day. It's moreover turning down a bit again.
the markets thin all the way up! this baby is making a come back special :O
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On December 08 2013 21:18 Chrono000 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2013 21:13 Shival wrote:On December 08 2013 21:04 Chrono000 wrote:On December 08 2013 19:49 Warent wrote:On December 06 2013 03:38 Chrono000 wrote:On December 06 2013 03:21 Warent wrote:On December 06 2013 01:33 0x64 wrote:
My rhetorical question is: "What is the worst thing that can happen to you if the BTC is widely accepted?" Hm... let's see. Regression, followed by global depression, high unemployment and riots, eventually a third world war (probably financed by a new fiat currency). In order to understand how this work it is of vital importance to understand the key concept of what money is - and why we need it. It's furthermore important to understand why a deflationary currency would be bad, with a big b. The currency will be controlled by those who have most of it - and to increase the value of something you have lots of - you spend less - thus reducing the effective supply of money. The following consequence is that even fewer will spend their money as they keep increasing in relative value more quickly. Eventually trade stops and unemployment follows. Why isn't this happening today you may ask yourself? And the answer is inflation. If you want to keep your wealth in today's system you have to invest it, either indirectly through fractional banking or directly into projects or companies whom create value for their customers. we been using inflationary money since forever and it always fails. u should be rewarded for saving no punished. another point is inflation forcing people to speculate and invest. i know now its much easier to invest when u have money but when u are scrapping by its pretty fucking god damn hard, i tell u. one mistake on your investment and it could screw your life (real estate) Read a little: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/08/the-average-life-expectancy-for-a-fiat-currency-is-27-years-every-30-to-40-years-the-reigning-monetary-system-fails-and-has-to-be-retooled.htmlA graphs: http://blog.elliottwavetechnician.com/2013/10/the-life-span-of-reserve-currency-status.htmlit is mind boggling the amount of turmoil and waste of resources it is to keep resetting the global currency. another point is fiat paper/plastic money is extremely wasteful to create manage and control. im believe its useful but would probably be better if we toned this dinosaur crap back. First, regarding inflation: You are wrong. I explained the consequences of a mass saving mentality in my above post, it is really not that hard, if everyone saves no one trades and soon we will all be farmers again. Fiat money always failed you say? Funny how some of the most "successful" societies have been backed by so called fiat money. Some contribute the fall of the roman republic to the switch from brass and copper money, given out by the government, to gold money controlled by the rich. Whoever controls the supply of money controls the economy. The age following the fall of the roman empire is, unless I'm mistaken, called the dark ages. During these times precious metals where the major currency. Secondly. Paper money and coins wasteful? Is this even a serious argument? How much selectivity to mine a bitcoin did you say? simply put i disagree. people still need to eat, have shelter, pleasure and the many basics. btc been around for nearly 5 years now and so far the stats show that each time the prices reach a peak (even during a rise) people spend bitcoin. believe it or not but people do like to spend. paper money and coins design, productions, management, storage, security, travel, dispensing facilitates and maintenance of old and new money, plus huge amounts of counterfeiting going on = much waste. digital like digital has done many time before saves us waste. let us move forward. holy crap price at 760 0_0 You really don't understand economics. None in their right minds would their invest money into companies if they can simply hog bitcoin to have a higher return on their investment. This puts a damper on economic growth and thus recession, into unemployment, into a failed state. That's what would happen, simply put. And again, stop hyping the coin. Price has been on average at 760 for more than a day. It's moreover turning down a bit again. the markets thin all the way up! this baby is making a come back special :O
Hahaha, no it's not, there's a huge wall at 700, can't go up at the moment.
Edit: gone now, should go up to 730-780 or so now.
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On December 08 2013 21:21 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2013 21:18 Chrono000 wrote:On December 08 2013 21:13 Shival wrote:On December 08 2013 21:04 Chrono000 wrote:On December 08 2013 19:49 Warent wrote:On December 06 2013 03:38 Chrono000 wrote:On December 06 2013 03:21 Warent wrote:On December 06 2013 01:33 0x64 wrote:
My rhetorical question is: "What is the worst thing that can happen to you if the BTC is widely accepted?" Hm... let's see. Regression, followed by global depression, high unemployment and riots, eventually a third world war (probably financed by a new fiat currency). In order to understand how this work it is of vital importance to understand the key concept of what money is - and why we need it. It's furthermore important to understand why a deflationary currency would be bad, with a big b. The currency will be controlled by those who have most of it - and to increase the value of something you have lots of - you spend less - thus reducing the effective supply of money. The following consequence is that even fewer will spend their money as they keep increasing in relative value more quickly. Eventually trade stops and unemployment follows. Why isn't this happening today you may ask yourself? And the answer is inflation. If you want to keep your wealth in today's system you have to invest it, either indirectly through fractional banking or directly into projects or companies whom create value for their customers. we been using inflationary money since forever and it always fails. u should be rewarded for saving no punished. another point is inflation forcing people to speculate and invest. i know now its much easier to invest when u have money but when u are scrapping by its pretty fucking god damn hard, i tell u. one mistake on your investment and it could screw your life (real estate) Read a little: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/08/the-average-life-expectancy-for-a-fiat-currency-is-27-years-every-30-to-40-years-the-reigning-monetary-system-fails-and-has-to-be-retooled.htmlA graphs: http://blog.elliottwavetechnician.com/2013/10/the-life-span-of-reserve-currency-status.htmlit is mind boggling the amount of turmoil and waste of resources it is to keep resetting the global currency. another point is fiat paper/plastic money is extremely wasteful to create manage and control. im believe its useful but would probably be better if we toned this dinosaur crap back. First, regarding inflation: You are wrong. I explained the consequences of a mass saving mentality in my above post, it is really not that hard, if everyone saves no one trades and soon we will all be farmers again. Fiat money always failed you say? Funny how some of the most "successful" societies have been backed by so called fiat money. Some contribute the fall of the roman republic to the switch from brass and copper money, given out by the government, to gold money controlled by the rich. Whoever controls the supply of money controls the economy. The age following the fall of the roman empire is, unless I'm mistaken, called the dark ages. During these times precious metals where the major currency. Secondly. Paper money and coins wasteful? Is this even a serious argument? How much selectivity to mine a bitcoin did you say? simply put i disagree. people still need to eat, have shelter, pleasure and the many basics. btc been around for nearly 5 years now and so far the stats show that each time the prices reach a peak (even during a rise) people spend bitcoin. believe it or not but people do like to spend. paper money and coins design, productions, management, storage, security, travel, dispensing facilitates and maintenance of old and new money, plus huge amounts of counterfeiting going on = much waste. digital like digital has done many time before saves us waste. let us move forward. holy crap price at 760 0_0 You really don't understand economics. None in their right minds would their invest money into companies if they can simply hog bitcoin to have a higher return on their investment. This puts a damper on economic growth and thus recession, into unemployment, into a failed state. That's what would happen, simply put. And again, stop hyping the coin. Price has been on average at 760 for more than a day. It's moreover turning down a bit again. the markets thin all the way up! this baby is making a come back special :O Hahaha, no it's not, there's a huge wall at 700, can't go up at the moment. Edit: gone now, should go up to 730-780 or so now.
be interesting to see what happens at the end of december. such a recovery, if one, is gona boost massive confidence in traders.
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On December 08 2013 21:26 Chrono000 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2013 21:21 Shival wrote:On December 08 2013 21:18 Chrono000 wrote:On December 08 2013 21:13 Shival wrote:On December 08 2013 21:04 Chrono000 wrote:On December 08 2013 19:49 Warent wrote:On December 06 2013 03:38 Chrono000 wrote:On December 06 2013 03:21 Warent wrote:On December 06 2013 01:33 0x64 wrote:
My rhetorical question is: "What is the worst thing that can happen to you if the BTC is widely accepted?" Hm... let's see. Regression, followed by global depression, high unemployment and riots, eventually a third world war (probably financed by a new fiat currency). In order to understand how this work it is of vital importance to understand the key concept of what money is - and why we need it. It's furthermore important to understand why a deflationary currency would be bad, with a big b. The currency will be controlled by those who have most of it - and to increase the value of something you have lots of - you spend less - thus reducing the effective supply of money. The following consequence is that even fewer will spend their money as they keep increasing in relative value more quickly. Eventually trade stops and unemployment follows. Why isn't this happening today you may ask yourself? And the answer is inflation. If you want to keep your wealth in today's system you have to invest it, either indirectly through fractional banking or directly into projects or companies whom create value for their customers. we been using inflationary money since forever and it always fails. u should be rewarded for saving no punished. another point is inflation forcing people to speculate and invest. i know now its much easier to invest when u have money but when u are scrapping by its pretty fucking god damn hard, i tell u. one mistake on your investment and it could screw your life (real estate) Read a little: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/08/the-average-life-expectancy-for-a-fiat-currency-is-27-years-every-30-to-40-years-the-reigning-monetary-system-fails-and-has-to-be-retooled.htmlA graphs: http://blog.elliottwavetechnician.com/2013/10/the-life-span-of-reserve-currency-status.htmlit is mind boggling the amount of turmoil and waste of resources it is to keep resetting the global currency. another point is fiat paper/plastic money is extremely wasteful to create manage and control. im believe its useful but would probably be better if we toned this dinosaur crap back. First, regarding inflation: You are wrong. I explained the consequences of a mass saving mentality in my above post, it is really not that hard, if everyone saves no one trades and soon we will all be farmers again. Fiat money always failed you say? Funny how some of the most "successful" societies have been backed by so called fiat money. Some contribute the fall of the roman republic to the switch from brass and copper money, given out by the government, to gold money controlled by the rich. Whoever controls the supply of money controls the economy. The age following the fall of the roman empire is, unless I'm mistaken, called the dark ages. During these times precious metals where the major currency. Secondly. Paper money and coins wasteful? Is this even a serious argument? How much selectivity to mine a bitcoin did you say? simply put i disagree. people still need to eat, have shelter, pleasure and the many basics. btc been around for nearly 5 years now and so far the stats show that each time the prices reach a peak (even during a rise) people spend bitcoin. believe it or not but people do like to spend. paper money and coins design, productions, management, storage, security, travel, dispensing facilitates and maintenance of old and new money, plus huge amounts of counterfeiting going on = much waste. digital like digital has done many time before saves us waste. let us move forward. holy crap price at 760 0_0 You really don't understand economics. None in their right minds would their invest money into companies if they can simply hog bitcoin to have a higher return on their investment. This puts a damper on economic growth and thus recession, into unemployment, into a failed state. That's what would happen, simply put. And again, stop hyping the coin. Price has been on average at 760 for more than a day. It's moreover turning down a bit again. the markets thin all the way up! this baby is making a come back special :O Hahaha, no it's not, there's a huge wall at 700, can't go up at the moment. Edit: gone now, should go up to 730-780 or so now. be interesting to see what happens at the end of december. such a recovery, if one is, gona boost massive confidence in traders.
What recovery are you talking about? At best this is stabilization/correction.
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Chrono has bee hyping up everything as huge comebacks and rises. Cant help but think he has a motive beyond just owning some coins himself.
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On December 08 2013 21:34 Gorsameth wrote:
Chrono has bee hyping up everything as huge comebacks and rises. Cant help but think he has a motive beyond just owning some coins himself.
You should see reddit or BTC-e live chat. All this hyping is what makes this coin a dangerous investment. They're all invested in bitcoin and want to get rich, that's all there's to it. They don't give a rat's ass about the technology behind it. This behaviour is exactly what caused dot-com bubble and others to occur.
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just having some fun guys!
by the way never look at the troll box on btc-e. it will corrupt your mind.
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On December 08 2013 21:13 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2013 21:04 Chrono000 wrote:On December 08 2013 19:49 Warent wrote:On December 06 2013 03:38 Chrono000 wrote:On December 06 2013 03:21 Warent wrote:On December 06 2013 01:33 0x64 wrote:
My rhetorical question is: "What is the worst thing that can happen to you if the BTC is widely accepted?" Hm... let's see. Regression, followed by global depression, high unemployment and riots, eventually a third world war (probably financed by a new fiat currency). In order to understand how this work it is of vital importance to understand the key concept of what money is - and why we need it. It's furthermore important to understand why a deflationary currency would be bad, with a big b. The currency will be controlled by those who have most of it - and to increase the value of something you have lots of - you spend less - thus reducing the effective supply of money. The following consequence is that even fewer will spend their money as they keep increasing in relative value more quickly. Eventually trade stops and unemployment follows. Why isn't this happening today you may ask yourself? And the answer is inflation. If you want to keep your wealth in today's system you have to invest it, either indirectly through fractional banking or directly into projects or companies whom create value for their customers. we been using inflationary money since forever and it always fails. u should be rewarded for saving no punished. another point is inflation forcing people to speculate and invest. i know now its much easier to invest when u have money but when u are scrapping by its pretty fucking god damn hard, i tell u. one mistake on your investment and it could screw your life (real estate) Read a little: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/08/the-average-life-expectancy-for-a-fiat-currency-is-27-years-every-30-to-40-years-the-reigning-monetary-system-fails-and-has-to-be-retooled.htmlA graphs: http://blog.elliottwavetechnician.com/2013/10/the-life-span-of-reserve-currency-status.htmlit is mind boggling the amount of turmoil and waste of resources it is to keep resetting the global currency. another point is fiat paper/plastic money is extremely wasteful to create manage and control. im believe its useful but would probably be better if we toned this dinosaur crap back. First, regarding inflation: You are wrong. I explained the consequences of a mass saving mentality in my above post, it is really not that hard, if everyone saves no one trades and soon we will all be farmers again. Fiat money always failed you say? Funny how some of the most "successful" societies have been backed by so called fiat money. Some contribute the fall of the roman republic to the switch from brass and copper money, given out by the government, to gold money controlled by the rich. Whoever controls the supply of money controls the economy. The age following the fall of the roman empire is, unless I'm mistaken, called the dark ages. During these times precious metals where the major currency. Secondly. Paper money and coins wasteful? Is this even a serious argument? How much selectivity to mine a bitcoin did you say? simply put i disagree. people still need to eat, have shelter, pleasure and the many basics. btc been around for nearly 5 years now and so far the stats show that each time the prices reach a peak (even during a rise) people spend bitcoin. believe it or not but people do like to spend. paper money and coins design, productions, management, storage, security, travel, dispensing facilitates and maintenance of old and new money, plus huge amounts of counterfeiting going on = much waste. digital like digital has done many time before saves us waste. let us move forward. holy crap price at 760 0_0 You really don't understand economics. None in their right minds would their invest money into companies if they can simply hog bitcoin to have a higher return on their investment. This puts a damper on economic growth and thus recession, into unemployment, into a failed state. That's what would happen, simply put. And again, stop hyping the coin. Price has been on average at 760 for more than a day. It's moreover turning down a bit again. Correction: It's dropping like a stone. 700 now. Massive wall of 900 bitcoins placed at 700 now. http://bitcoinwisdom.com/
Just think of it as housing.
You can either buy a used one or build a new one.
Sure the price of the market goes up.
Understanding economy or disagreeing with some principles is a different matter.
I think personally that the value of a currency should adapt to the productivity of its economic area.
This creates problems within countries as the economic dynamics varies quite a bit. Even bigger problems appears on the European scale. Now, if your argument is that it would damper economic growth, then what dampers it now?
What's the difference in your opinion with gold? If stocking your money into something that doesn't grow makes you free money, then why not put all your money on gold...
If something, bitcoin is much easier to spend than gold. (Sure I can buy a beer with gold in one place in Finland but the rates are outrageous :D).
And I am also again against hyping the coin as well, the volatility is there to stay. Monday opens, new cash flows in and maybe some strange new in the middle of the week causes some panic... Anyway, there hasn't been much of a volume since the fall from 1200.
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On December 09 2013 03:09 0x64 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2013 21:13 Shival wrote:On December 08 2013 21:04 Chrono000 wrote:On December 08 2013 19:49 Warent wrote:On December 06 2013 03:38 Chrono000 wrote:On December 06 2013 03:21 Warent wrote:On December 06 2013 01:33 0x64 wrote:
My rhetorical question is: "What is the worst thing that can happen to you if the BTC is widely accepted?" Hm... let's see. Regression, followed by global depression, high unemployment and riots, eventually a third world war (probably financed by a new fiat currency). In order to understand how this work it is of vital importance to understand the key concept of what money is - and why we need it. It's furthermore important to understand why a deflationary currency would be bad, with a big b. The currency will be controlled by those who have most of it - and to increase the value of something you have lots of - you spend less - thus reducing the effective supply of money. The following consequence is that even fewer will spend their money as they keep increasing in relative value more quickly. Eventually trade stops and unemployment follows. Why isn't this happening today you may ask yourself? And the answer is inflation. If you want to keep your wealth in today's system you have to invest it, either indirectly through fractional banking or directly into projects or companies whom create value for their customers. we been using inflationary money since forever and it always fails. u should be rewarded for saving no punished. another point is inflation forcing people to speculate and invest. i know now its much easier to invest when u have money but when u are scrapping by its pretty fucking god damn hard, i tell u. one mistake on your investment and it could screw your life (real estate) Read a little: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/08/the-average-life-expectancy-for-a-fiat-currency-is-27-years-every-30-to-40-years-the-reigning-monetary-system-fails-and-has-to-be-retooled.htmlA graphs: http://blog.elliottwavetechnician.com/2013/10/the-life-span-of-reserve-currency-status.htmlit is mind boggling the amount of turmoil and waste of resources it is to keep resetting the global currency. another point is fiat paper/plastic money is extremely wasteful to create manage and control. im believe its useful but would probably be better if we toned this dinosaur crap back. First, regarding inflation: You are wrong. I explained the consequences of a mass saving mentality in my above post, it is really not that hard, if everyone saves no one trades and soon we will all be farmers again. Fiat money always failed you say? Funny how some of the most "successful" societies have been backed by so called fiat money. Some contribute the fall of the roman republic to the switch from brass and copper money, given out by the government, to gold money controlled by the rich. Whoever controls the supply of money controls the economy. The age following the fall of the roman empire is, unless I'm mistaken, called the dark ages. During these times precious metals where the major currency. Secondly. Paper money and coins wasteful? Is this even a serious argument? How much selectivity to mine a bitcoin did you say? simply put i disagree. people still need to eat, have shelter, pleasure and the many basics. btc been around for nearly 5 years now and so far the stats show that each time the prices reach a peak (even during a rise) people spend bitcoin. believe it or not but people do like to spend. paper money and coins design, productions, management, storage, security, travel, dispensing facilitates and maintenance of old and new money, plus huge amounts of counterfeiting going on = much waste. digital like digital has done many time before saves us waste. let us move forward. holy crap price at 760 0_0 You really don't understand economics. None in their right minds would their invest money into companies if they can simply hog bitcoin to have a higher return on their investment. This puts a damper on economic growth and thus recession, into unemployment, into a failed state. That's what would happen, simply put. And again, stop hyping the coin. Price has been on average at 760 for more than a day. It's moreover turning down a bit again. Correction: It's dropping like a stone. 700 now. Massive wall of 900 bitcoins placed at 700 now. http://bitcoinwisdom.com/ Just think of it as housing. You can either buy a used one or build a new one. Sure the price of the market goes up. Understanding economy or disagreeing with some principles is a different matter. I think personally that the value of a currency should adapt to the productivity of its economic area. This creates problems within countries as the economic dynamics varies quite a bit. Even bigger problems appears on the European scale. Now, if your argument is that it would damper economic growth, then what dampers it now? What's the difference in your opinion with gold? If stocking your money into something that doesn't grow makes you free money, then why not put all your money on gold... If something, bitcoin is much easier to spend than gold. (Sure I can buy a beer with gold in one place in Finland but the rates are outrageous :D). And I am also again against hyping the coin as well, the volatility is there to stay. Monday opens, new cash flows in and maybe some strange new in the middle of the week causes some panic... Anyway, there hasn't been much of a volume since the fall from 1200.
Sorry, but there's nothing to disagree about. You're going against every bit of economic theory there is. Hogging money puts a damper on economic growth, there's nothing to argue about. Investing money into housing is indirectly supporting a whole industrial sector. What sector does bitcoin support, but yourself?
What is dampening economic growth for developed countries at the moment is; increased competition on a globalized scale. Economic malpractice by bankers and regulators, which caused banks to collapse and put 'too big to fail' banks under heavy pressure. This in turn demanded countries to bail the banks out, to steer off a total collapse of the financial system. However, that in turn resulted in a sovereign debt crisis. But none of these has anything to do with an inflationary currency. Developing countries also use inflationary currency and also manage a high economic growth.
Gold is a relatively secure commodity to invest in, but has an overall slow growth, thus usually it's better to invest into stocks. Which is also why you see gold going up during crisis years, and gold going down when the crisis seems over. Thats because people start shipping their money from gold to stocks, taking on average a higher return on investment.
The problem arises when something that does not support economic growth shows better potential at returning profit. Which is why you should have some inflation instead of deflation. Investing into gold or bitcoin doesn't make you money out of thin air, the rising value of bitcoin means it's sucking up more money, which cannot be used for economic growth (if hogged obviously). On a whole, there's no net gain, but rather a net loss, loss of economic growth. You may gain value, but someone else has to lose it.
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On December 09 2013 05:02 Shival wrote:
What is dampening economic growth for developed countries at the moment is; increased competition on a globalized scale. Economic malpractice by bankers and regulators, which caused banks to collapse and put 'too big to fail' banks under heavy pressure.
it's the falling rate of profits that drives them to "malpractice," you can't ever understand anything by appealing to the moral failings of individuals
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Yes of course, and the increased pressure of making more profit by shareholders. That still doesn't make it anything else than malpractice, no need to sweeten the actions.
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my point is that it's a structural problem in the capitalist system and you can't ever regulate it away, there will always be financial crisis and shady dealings as long as there is capitalism. if they didn't do it, somebody else would
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That's not inherent to capitalism but rather of society itself. Communism has it fair share of shady dealings in history, not to mention economic collapse.
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ah yes, the two great options
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On December 09 2013 05:46 sam!zdat wrote:
ah yes, the two great options
Any great example that worked so far then? I dare say none have worked, and none will ever work unless you somehow manage to subdue human nature.
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you're right Mrs. Thatcher
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EPT
