What are they? They are drugs that basically increase focus, alertness, and wakefulness for extended periods of creative activity. They fall under the category of "Nootropics" and are not considered stimulants.
Side Effects: Not entirely known because they've only been around since the 70's without much widespread scientific review. Also, some people experience absolutely no side effects as long as they provide their body proper nutrition because some of these drugs cause an increased brain activity which requires more fuel. But some include Headache, Arousal, Diarrhea, Skin Rash, and there's more.
Legality: In Canada and the USA some are available by prescription or black market.
Personally, I would like to see absolutely no restrictions on these drugs and any other drugs as it is my body, my life, and my choice what to do with it. But I was wondering if anyone here on the forum has tested any of these types of drugs on themselves and what kind of results you obtained? I am very curious about them.
Please share your experiences in as much detail as you can so that we may all benefit from this information. Myself, I have never used them and have only found out about them yesterday. My interest is peaked. It turns out that some people at Google use them too, among other successful Silicon Valley start-up companies.
Only ever recommended to me by stoners and pseudo-intellectuals. No experience for myself, but I'd wager a bet that they're complete and utter bullshit. Just the next "fad."
Personally, I would like to see absolutely no restrictions on these drugs and any other drugs as it is my body, my life, and my choice what to do with it.
There are no restrictions to how you can obtain these drugs (both legally and illegally). Kind of a weak argument to allow complete openness and permission purely based on your own interests rather than a societal view (which is the whole goal of laws in paper).
Vasopressin hasn't only been around since the 70s, just sayin'. Pretty sure it's been around for longer than mammals have been around
In all seriousness though, calling these chemicals "brain steroids" is pretty goofy... edit: Just read the little blurb on his website. He seems full of shit. Seems interested in selling his own image and book, etc., rather than pushing science
Looks pretty interesting, but until they come up with a ton of scientific, peer-reviewed studies to answer the remaining questions, to complement the usual sensationalist news story, I'll be keeping my distance. Medication affects different people differently, and until there's extensive medical knowledge on layman use for the pill, I'll stick to leading a healthy lifestyle.
Yeah there doesn't seem to be much info on these and I'm really curious as to what they are, exactly... And yeah, obviously there's the idea of that kind of mental drug's effects... interesting though from what I know, I can't really buy into it.
Ten years ago I went on a quest to become an expert on coffee and to sample as many different ways of making it and as many different varieties that existed. I tried everything from the French Press to the Coffee Siphon, Hawaiian Kona to Jamaican Blue Mountain. But unsatisfied with mere coffee, I went on a quest to find out how to use chemicals to enhance my mind. It had its roots in old high-school days when I'd bring a sixpack of Jolt cola to a computer-programming marathon: cramming together study halls and lunch breaks in my senior year. The nootropics of that era were caffeine, sugar, cortisol, dopamine, epinephrine and norepineprhine, and the last four in that list were all natural hormones my body was making itself....
Very interesting overview of some of the major nootropics. It's also fairly responsible and lays out some of the potential harms of using them.
On March 10 2013 12:45 Aerisky wrote: Yeah there doesn't seem to be much info on these and I'm really curious as to what they are, exactly... And yeah, obviously there's the idea of that kind of mental drug's affects... interesting though from what I know, I can't really buy into it.
I can say for certain that from that list of compounds, some of them are fairly well defined. Vasopressin for example, is a naturally occurring substance implicated in things like mood, sexual activity, social activity, etc. One of the things on the list is a drug used in treatment of Parkinson's.
I'm sure all of the things on the list do have effects on the brain, but if they were really that useful for boosting IQ points (lol?) or acting as "brain steroids", I think there would be pretty big incentive for a lot of studies into these effects, which just isn't the case. The spokesman dude says on his site:
I blog about how to be a more powerful entrepreneur and human by upgrading your biology at The Bulletproof Executive. I spent 15 years and $250,000 of my own money hacking my biology to gain an unfair advantage in business and life.
I upgraded my brain by >20 IQ points, lost 100lbs, got ripped and became an expert in mental performance, setting my career on fire. My advice has helped hundreds of people upgrade their careers and lives.
...really. Based on that he doesn't appear to know a damn thing about neuroscience, so I would not take advice from the guy on drugs for the brain
From what I know from a friend that takes some nootropics, and talks with my dad (he is a pediatrician) basically I've heard that they don't know the long term effects of the drugs, but it most likely isn't too harmful. However, it does give you a little boost, but it is often over-exaggerated. It is basically a very damp version of taking a drug stimulant such as adderall, which is a combination of Amphetamine and Dextroamphetamine.
Ten years ago I went on a quest to become an expert on coffee and to sample as many different ways of making it and as many different varieties that existed. I tried everything from the French Press to the Coffee Siphon, Hawaiian Kona to Jamaican Blue Mountain. But unsatisfied with mere coffee, I went on a quest to find out how to use chemicals to enhance my mind. It had its roots in old high-school days when I'd bring a sixpack of Jolt cola to a computer-programming marathon: cramming together study halls and lunch breaks in my senior year. The nootropics of that era were caffeine, sugar, cortisol, dopamine, epinephrine and norepineprhine, and the last four in that list were all natural hormones my body was making itself....
Very interesting overview of some of the major nootropics. It's also fairly responsible and lays out some of the potential harms of using them.
On March 10 2013 12:45 Aerisky wrote: Yeah there doesn't seem to be much info on these and I'm really curious as to what they are, exactly... And yeah, obviously there's the idea of that kind of mental drug's affects... interesting though from what I know, I can't really buy into it.
I can say for certain that from that list of compounds, some of them are fairly well defined. Vasopressin for example, is a naturally occurring substance implicated in things like mood, sexual activity, social activity, etc. One of the things on the list is a drug used in treatment of Parkinson's.
I'm sure all of the things on the list do have effects on the brain, but if they were really that useful for boosting IQ points (lol?) or acting as "brain steroids", I think there would be pretty big incentive for a lot of studies into these effects, which just isn't the case. The spokesman dude says on his site:
I blog about how to be a more powerful entrepreneur and human by upgrading your biology at The Bulletproof Executive. I spent 15 years and $250,000 of my own money hacking my biology to gain an unfair advantage in business and life.
I upgraded my brain by >20 IQ points, lost 100lbs, got ripped and became an expert in mental performance, setting my career on fire. My advice has helped hundreds of people upgrade their careers and lives.
...really. Based on that he doesn't appear to know a damn thing about neuroscience, so I would not take advice from the guy on drugs for the brain
Some nootropics show promise, but they most certainly aren't going to do what this guy claims.
Ten years ago I went on a quest to become an expert on coffee and to sample as many different ways of making it and as many different varieties that existed. I tried everything from the French Press to the Coffee Siphon, Hawaiian Kona to Jamaican Blue Mountain. But unsatisfied with mere coffee, I went on a quest to find out how to use chemicals to enhance my mind. It had its roots in old high-school days when I'd bring a sixpack of Jolt cola to a computer-programming marathon: cramming together study halls and lunch breaks in my senior year. The nootropics of that era were caffeine, sugar, cortisol, dopamine, epinephrine and norepineprhine, and the last four in that list were all natural hormones my body was making itself....
Very interesting overview of some of the major nootropics. It's also fairly responsible and lays out some of the potential harms of using them.
"However, small percentage increments in performance can lead to significant improvements in functional outcome; it is conceivable that a 10% improvement in memory score could lead to an improvement in an A-level grade or degree class."
My personal testament is that methylphenidate (ritalin) is awesome and worked for me and I know a bunch of people from Oxford, Cambridge and London universities who have used it to benefit.
I really hope people read literature rather than look for all the pop-science, tabloid and blog shit with which to form opinions. C'mon guys, prove you are better than the average member of the general public.
Vasopressin? Interesting. I am an ICU RN, we use this drug for ACLS protocols during cardiac arrest (usually during asystole along with another drug called atropine). I would assume that you would not be taking the vaso in high doses. Because Vaso is a 'pressor' or a medication that at a certain dose range clamps down on the vasculature to increase blood pressure. Most pressors (levophed, norepi, ext ext) are some nasty drugs. Normally they cannot be given peripherally, and in doing so you are damaging many organ systems, and peripheral extremities of the body when used for long periods (which can be a short as a number of days.)
So low dose vasopressin? I have heard of it used at some point for septic shock, but have no practice with it. So tacking vaso.... gives you an increased blood pressure. At lose dose I suppose that it could cause increased urine production. But normally vasopressin given at the clinical level clamps the renal artery down so hard, that you can throw a patient into kidney failure, from lack of blood passing through the kidney. (Imagine twisting a garden hose too tight... no water, or in this case blood goes through to the kidney.)
As for the rest of the drugs, they are usually used in urinary retention, and some for the treatment of narcolepsy... but other than vaso, i have very little clinical practice with any of them. If your looking to 'enhance' your brain function and activity- i would think a much safer, healther and cheaper way would be the following:
8 hours of sleep, 8 glasses of h2o a day, exercise.
But for the lasy people- you can always go and get some pseudoephedrine- this is the over the counter stimulant.
Found in:
Dayquil, pseudophed. That will give you a kick.
Edit:
Also holy shit, i was just looking through the ops list again, and i saw this-
Selegiline
That is an MAOI inhibitor. Normally last line in the use for anti-depressive medications. After SSRI, and tricyclics i think. (Not 100% sure on this, as i don't work psych) From what i remember from nursing school, MAOI's have some serious side effects, as well as dietary effects (ie eating certain foods, like cheese) can cause some wild idiosyncratic effects.
The fact that normal people would advocate the use of these drugs.... is pretty weird. Clinically, we use stimulants to increase function. Not any of the above.
On March 10 2013 12:30 Epocalypse wrote: Here's another video of the same guy in the OP video... He seems dopey to me, and I wouldn't take him as the best spokesman. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiY5uFLQG2E
That dude talks like a computer. And it looks like he's staring into space the whole time. Also, why'd he shave half his eyebrows? That shit don't look good at all.
They went to far when the guy, who had been taking a drug for years, suddenly went cold turkey and the withdrawal symptoms he felt during that time was "claimed" by the reporter to be equal to how a normal functioning person with no withdrawal symptoms would feel, and how he felt better when he went back on the drug and that they took that as a "proof" of that the drug was working. What a load of garbage.
I have experimented with a few drugs like these in the last year and a half. I have a presciption for vyvanse, which is essentially adderall and i have to say it can be very effective for sure. They do usually have a list of side effects, won't go into detail but that is why they have so many different ADD medication because they don't work well with everyone. However, most nootropics do not have those lengthy lists of side effects, or at least the are way smaller. I have also tried out Piracetam with alpha gpc choline and enjoyed that because of how low risk it was.
On March 10 2013 13:14 Whiplash wrote: From what I know from a friend that takes some nootropics, and talks with my dad (he is a pediatrician) basically I've heard that they don't know the long term effects of the drugs, but it most likely isn't too harmful. However, it does give you a little boost, but it is often over-exaggerated. It is basically a very damp version of taking a drug stimulant such as adderall, which is a combination of Amphetamine and Dextroamphetamine.
The fact is that we don't understand how the brain works well enough to really do this shit yet, not to mention the data and research simply hasn't been done as to the long term effects, side effects, and even basic efficacy of basically all of this.
Drugs and brain chemistry are just monstrously complicated, and to pretend you have really any idea of what you are doing, especially if you are considering using these substances on a regular basis, is basically a pure gamble at this point.
On March 10 2013 14:42 Gamegene wrote: I wonder which drugs SC progamers have used in their careers and when they first started and ended.
Would be kind of cool if we saw the drug's relationship with performance as effectiveness decreases over time and usage.
This would be a perfect example of where correlation does not necessarily imply causation. I wouldn't be surprised if the most dedicated and focused progamers (/students) with the most pressure on them chose these drugs, while people with a more casual approach didn't. I wouldn't be surprised either if people who was looking for a quick fix and the easy way to become good used drugs such as these. Therefore if people who use stimulants perform better or worse it may not be an indicator of anything except that very correlation.
Personally I have experimented with variants of Modafinil (mostly generic brands, but also some "genuine" for comparison) and racetams (aniracetam + piracetam). I never got a noticable effect by racetams over a couple of months of usage, but maybe it is just very suble. I'm not sure, but I would rather wait for more conclusive results regarding efficacy, safety and proper dosage.
I have been using modafinil on/off for about 5 years now and I really like it (on/off because you build up a resistance, it is expensive and it probably isn't too healthy). It does not magically turn you smart, but it helps tremendously with motivation, focus and fatigue. I get incredibly motivated, and can focus very deeply which I believe allows me to think more seriously about harder subjects. Furthermore it has allowed me to do double all-nights (i.e. 60-80 hours) on a couple of occasions where I had planned terribly without very bad signs of tiredness. I generally try to avoid using it for staying up very late more than every couple of months, but when you fucked yourself and ignored a deadline it can be godsend. The obvious issue is of course how safe it is and how to get proper medical advice and tests to ensure that there are no adverse reactions. Personally I have found ways to get relevant bloodwork done, but generally it can be hard to go say "can you help test if this prescription drug is having any adverse effects on me?".
EDIT: And yes of course good diet, exercise and good attitude is more important, but if you already have that, then nootropics can potentially push you further.
Nootropics: I've been using piracetam, oxiracetam, and sulbamatine for about a year now. I think it helps me (but it's anecdotal) focus a bit better and be less prone to mental exhaustion. My friend who's doing a PhD in neuroscience gave me a couple of papers on the subject that might be of interest to some of you. https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2020953/Nootropic Research.rar
For "brain hacks", Dual n-back test might be interesting too. I practiced it for a year on and off, but lost motivation/commitment these last couple of months. I might start doing them again, since I felt like it was easier to remember people's names and organize my thoughts when I was consistently doing them. Gwern's page on this (listed below) gives a pretty good overview.
On March 10 2013 13:57 Ramiel wrote: Vasopressin? Interesting. I am an ICU RN, we use this drug for ACLS protocols during cardiac arrest (usually during asystole along with another drug called atropine). I would assume that you would not be taking the vaso in high doses. Because Vaso is a 'pressor' or a medication that at a certain dose range clamps down on the vasculature to increase blood pressure. Most pressors (levophed, norepi, ext ext) are some nasty drugs. Normally they cannot be given peripherally, and in doing so you are damaging many organ systems, and peripheral extremities of the body when used for long periods (which can be a short as a number of days.)
So low dose vasopressin? I have heard of it used at some point for septic shock, but have no practice with it. So tacking vaso.... gives you an increased blood pressure. At lose dose I suppose that it could cause increased urine production. But normally vasopressin given at the clinical level clamps the renal artery down so hard, that you can throw a patient into kidney failure, from lack of blood passing through the kidney. (Imagine twisting a garden hose too tight... no water, or in this case blood goes through to the kidney.)
As for the rest of the drugs, they are usually used in urinary retention, and some for the treatment of narcolepsy... but other than vaso, i have very little clinical practice with any of them. If your looking to 'enhance' your brain function and activity- i would think a much safer, healther and cheaper way would be the following:
8 hours of sleep, 8 glasses of h2o a day, exercise.
But for the lasy people- you can always go and get some pseudoephedrine- this is the over the counter stimulant.
Found in:
Dayquil, pseudophed. That will give you a kick.
Edit:
Also holy shit, i was just looking through the ops list again, and i saw this-
Selegiline
That is an MAOI inhibitor. Normally last line in the use for anti-depressive medications. After SSRI, and tricyclics i think. (Not 100% sure on this, as i don't work psych) From what i remember from nursing school, MAOI's have some serious side effects, as well as dietary effects (ie eating certain foods, like cheese) can cause some wild idiosyncratic effects.
The fact that normal people would advocate the use of these drugs.... is pretty weird. Clinically, we use stimulants to increase function. Not any of the above.
Yeah MAOI's are pretty bad. Lots of things that you can't do while taking MAOI (including eating chocolate). Could fuck up your blood pressure or give you serotonin syndrome. Anyhow good to see a fellow nurse
It seems very interesting. And with many applications indeed.
But, as some people noted, brain, mind and body as a whole need rest no matter how many enhancing drugs you're taking and how good they are.
I would not mind trying but I will never give up on sleeping/reading/playing/sporting to relax and relieve pressure on my brain mind and body.
It feels people are so lazy to try to have a good hygiene of life that they prefer to rely on drugs instead of looking for other way to improve.
For example reading before sleeping is a really good way to improve your mermory, you can also try to speed up your reading and practice differently when trying to learn/remember something (there was a thread with a scientific article on the differents technics used by students to learn).
Is it really necessary to use enhancing drugs to feel good, act productively and focus ? Frankly I don't think so, as for my own example i know i am able to focus a lot and well for quite a long time as long as i discipline myself.
It's a long video but they talk about smart drugs for a couple minutes starting at the time I linked (10:30). I've heard Tim Ferriss talk about it before, but in this video he also talks a bit about the side effects.
I can't really summarize it without butchering what he says, but it's a lot of interesting anecdotal evidence and he mentions that even though people aren't bringing up negative side effects it doesn't really mean there aren't any.
These things will increase your memory and attention span in the short term: Caffeine, Amphetamines, Cocaine, (Pseudo)Ephedrine, Cathinones, Nicotine, Modafinil
These things will most significantly benefit your long term memory and brain health: Regular exercise, enough sleep, eating plenty of fruits and vegetables
These things may or may not cause a small effect on brain function: Racetams, Choline supplements, Noopept, CoQ10, Lion's Mane, "Designed" vitamins (i.e. sulbutiamine)
Many of the most popular "smart drugs" (Piracetam, Sulbutiamine, Ginkgo Biloba, etc.) have been around for decades or even millenia but are still known only in medical circles or among esoteric practicioners of herbal medicine. Why is this? If these compounds have proven cognitive benefits, why are they not ubiquitous? How come every grade-school child gets fluoride for the development of their teeth (despite fluoride's being a known neurotoxin) but not, say, Piracetam for the development of their brains? Why does the nightly news slant stories to appeal more to a fear-of-change than the promise of a richer cognitive future? There is no clear answer to this question. Many of the smart drugs mentioned have decades of medical research and widespread use behind them, as well as very minor, manageable, or nonexistent side effects, but are still used primarily as a crutch for people already experiencing cognitive decline, rather than as a booster-rocket for people with healthy brains. Unfortunately, there is a large bias in Western medicine in favor of prescription once something bad has already begun, rather than up-front prevention. There's also the very wise principle of "leave well enough alone" - in this case, extended to mean, don't add unnecessary or unnatural chemical compounds to the human body in place of a normal diet. [Smart Drug Smarts would argue that the average human diet has strayed so far from what is physiologically "normal" that leaving well enough alone is already a failed proposition.]
On March 11 2013 07:19 rezoacken wrote: "Your life fixed with a pill/potion in 5 seconds."
Selling dreams since -2000BC.
Pseudo-science is just another form of mythical bullshit.
If you take drugs, don't try to justify yourself.
I'm pretty sure pharmacology isn't pseudoscience. Okay, well modern practices in marketing drugs are pretty close, but it's still fairly well-established that drugs exist that affect the body in fairly predictable ways.
I think it's mostly just stimulants that are used for this. So many 'herbal mixtures' have guarana in it which is just caffeine and as far as I know doesn't do anything beneficial long term.
Personally I try to use rosemary as a herb more frequently, because it supposedly enhances memory and I had been having memory problems, and I sometimes have lemon balm tea because that one also has positive effects. I doubt it's actually noticeable, but at least it's just tea or seasoning, so it can't really hurt.
It wouldn't surprise me if there actually do existed supplements which would remove hidden minor deficiencies for the brain and make you function better, but I'm not enough of an expert to know any of this.
And of course there are drugs that make you function better short-term, like many stimulants.
I doubt if there are wonder drugs that offer substantial long-term benefits up and beyond what you would achieve at optimal health & nutrition etc. already.
On March 11 2013 15:28 Anne wrote: Many of the most popular "smart drugs" (Piracetam, Sulbutiamine, Ginkgo Biloba, etc.) have been around for decades or even millenia but are still known only in medical circles or among esoteric practicioners of herbal medicine. Why is this? If these compounds have proven cognitive benefits, why are they not ubiquitous? How come every grade-school child gets fluoride for the development of their teeth (despite fluoride's being a known neurotoxin) but not, say, Piracetam for the development of their brains? Why does the nightly news slant stories to appeal more to a fear-of-change than the promise of a richer cognitive future?
Maybe because "a meta-analysis in 2012 reported zero effect sizes for the impact of Ginkgo biloba on memory, attention and problem-solving", according to wiki.
On March 12 2013 05:27 DDie wrote: A friend of mine is taking ritalin (he is studying to be a judge), he didn't had any major side effects.
He's addicted to it, not physically, but addicted in the sense that he simply can't study anymore unless he's taking the pill, it's that good he says.
Thank god I will be old or dead before this brave new world becomes a standard. Kids drugging themselves to get small edge on other kids fueled by globalized capitalism in job-market competition.
On March 12 2013 05:27 DDie wrote: A friend of mine is taking ritalin (he is studying to be a judge), he didn't had any major side effects.
He's addicted to it, not physically, but addicted in the sense that he simply can't study anymore unless he's taking the pill, it's that good he says.
Thank god I will be old or dead before this brave new world becomes a standard. Kids drugging themselves to get small edge on other kids fueled by globalized capitalism in job-market competition.
It's common with med students, it made the news, there is a movie on the subject (limitless).
On March 12 2013 05:27 DDie wrote: A friend of mine is taking ritalin (he is studying to be a judge), he didn't had any major side effects.
He's addicted to it, not physically, but addicted in the sense that he simply can't study anymore unless he's taking the pill, it's that good he says.
Thank god I will be old or dead before this brave new world becomes a standard. Kids drugging themselves to get small edge on other kids fueled by globalized capitalism in job-market competition.
It's common with med students, it made the news, there is a movie on the subject (limitless).
It's already pretty standard if you ask me.
Med students starting their career by abusing prescription drugs?
Honestly though, sometimes I feel that universities having these big tests that require you to study so much material is pretty difficult for students and that it's almost okay to try and manage these things that reward an unnaturally high level of concentration (for a day or two to make deadlines) by using drugs in a responsible manner just during these moments.
Like, what is coffee use if not this in so many cases?
On March 12 2013 05:27 DDie wrote: A friend of mine is taking ritalin (he is studying to be a judge), he didn't had any major side effects.
He's addicted to it, not physically, but addicted in the sense that he simply can't study anymore unless he's taking the pill, it's that good he says.
Thank god I will be old or dead before this brave new world becomes a standard. Kids drugging themselves to get small edge on other kids fueled by globalized capitalism in job-market competition.
It's common with med students, it made the news, there is a movie on the subject (limitless).
It's already pretty standard if you ask me.
Med students starting their career by abusing prescription drugs?
Honestly though, sometimes I feel that universities having these big tests that require you to study so much material is pretty difficult for students and that it's almost okay to try and manage these things that reward an unnaturally high level of concentration (for a day or two to make deadlines) by using drugs in a responsible manner just during these moments.
Like, what is coffee use if not this in so many cases?
At least here in Brazil, it's ridiculously easy to get prescriptions (you can get then for R$40-50, which is about $20), if you want to take the ''legit'' way, you can just go to doctor and say your going to use it anyway but would rather have some medical monitoring, most doctors will give it to you.
I'm seriously considering taking some of these drugs.
In my cardgame tournaments, I used to drop Ritalin and Concerta(basically a slow-release Ritalin) to keep my head in one place, shut out distractions and become hyperconcentrated. It improved my performance by a decent margin, only because distractions, even if you're not actively noticing them, really put a damper on your cognitive abilities. But Ritalin is nothing new. I've looked this stuff up in the past, but I haven't found anything that really makes me say "Wow. I need to try this."
... I was secretly hoping this thread could convince me otherwise.
On March 10 2013 15:32 dudeman001 wrote: Does alpha brain actually induce lucid dreaming like it advertises?
You can become a lucid dreamer within 3-4 weeks of practice. It's not that hard, you just have to put in minimal effort.
There's also certain drugs that can give you different dreams. I acquired a batch of something known as Dream Herb once and I had occasional success with it. I didn't even know what would be a proper dosage and at what time of the day I should take it, or whether I should take it as a supplement in lower doses for a few weeks, and so on. It wasn't that expensive, so I thought that I could gradually increase the dosage and take it daily, but I didn't trust it would be safe to use this long-term given the lack of research available, furthermore, the taste is utterly vile, so it's only usable in capsules, which adds another level of complexity.
The one time where it did had the promised effects was really interesting. I had very vivid dreams the entire night. I was actually really happy with it for that time, I mean, wouldn't it be wonderful if the 8 hours a day we spend sleeping were more interesting? ^^
Oh boy Dave Asprey. He sells a ton of products and his methods for evaulating scientific evidence are atrocious. I cringe every time he brags on his blog about how many studies on subject X he read. Some examples of things he's selling:
Special coffee that isn't contaminated with toxins like all the other coffee you might drink.
On March 10 2013 15:32 dudeman001 wrote: Does alpha brain actually induce lucid dreaming like it advertises?
You can become a lucid dreamer within 3-4 weeks of practice. It's not that hard, you just have to put in minimal effort.
There's also certain drugs that can give you different dreams. I acquired a batch of something known as Dream Herb once and I had occasional success with it. I didn't even know what would be a proper dosage and at what time of the day I should take it, or whether I should take it as a supplement in lower doses for a few weeks, and so on. It wasn't that expensive, so I thought that I could gradually increase the dosage and take it daily, but I didn't trust it would be safe to use this long-term given the lack of research available, furthermore, the taste is utterly vile, so it's only usable in capsules, which adds another level of complexity.
The one time where it did had the promised effects was really interesting. I had very vivid dreams the entire night. I was actually really happy with it for that time, I mean, wouldn't it be wonderful if the 8 hours a day we spend sleeping were more interesting? ^^
If you guys want more info on this; this is a very good thread. Bit outdated, but useful nonetheless.
On March 11 2013 07:19 rezoacken wrote: "Your life fixed with a pill/potion in 5 seconds."
Selling dreams since -2000BC.
Pseudo-science is just another form of mythical bullshit.
If you take drugs, don't try to justify yourself.
I'm pretty sure pharmacology isn't pseudoscience. Okay, well modern practices in marketing drugs are pretty close, but it's still fairly well-established that drugs exist that affect the body in fairly predictable ways.
He is not calling genuine pharmacology a pseudoscience. He's calling the moronic claims of the salesman from the video pseudoscience -- which to be honest is being too nice
Personally I dose about a 2.4g of piracetam every now and then with some choline bitartrate. You'll notice the effects if you use it with caffeine, but after your first "high" it's just a little boost that goes largely unnoticed. Other nootropics are more noticeable in certain regards, and you can read about all of them in different places. Some journal articles even have peer-reviewed studies on cognitive improvement in patients with degenerative brain issues that were not related to treating the degeneration, which suggests that the overall cognitive boost can be applied to normal individuals as well.
If you're interested, start with piracetam and build from there. There are a lot of resources for nootropics online. I suggest buying bulk and doing the dose adjustments yourself. Stay away from amphetamines (colloquially known as "speed" or "adderall") because they're illegal without a prescription, but in all honesty, I've been told by a medical professional with 40 years in the field that there are no real lasting side effects to amphetamine use (not abuse).
Anyone have any experience with noopept and CDPcholine? I'll probably start a small stack with those, a little resveratrol, and maybe some fish oil or something. Though I have thought about modafinil, too.
On March 12 2013 10:48 Avtonikov wrote: Anyone have any experience with noopept and CDPcholine? I'll probably start a small stack with those, a little resveratrol, and maybe some fish oil or something. Though I have thought about modafinil, too.
I have been experimenting with nootropics for the last year or so. They are by no means a miracle drug,for me at least. I did notice a slight increase in memory. Stuff would just come to me a little faster...but i also changed my diet and exercise habits. So it could have came from better general health. I have been taking modafinil (modalert brand) for the last 2 months. 200mg before breakfast with my coffee. There are for sure some noticeable improvements with it. Once again nothing life changing but i no longer have a mid day crash. My head feels as clear at 8am as it does at 8pm. I was taking adderall for a while but i really didnt enjoy the speedy effects of it. I felt awake and alert,but not really myself. Modafinil doesnt have the speedy edge to it. Just a clearness. The only negatives i have had from it is the awful awful taste of the pill itself and my pee smells like sulfur.
On March 12 2013 05:27 DDie wrote: A friend of mine is taking ritalin (he is studying to be a judge), he didn't had any major side effects.
He's addicted to it, not physically, but addicted in the sense that he simply can't study anymore unless he's taking the pill, it's that good he says.
Thank god I will be old or dead before this brave new world becomes a standard. Kids drugging themselves to get small edge on other kids fueled by globalized capitalism in job-market competition.
It's common with med students, it made the news, there is a movie on the subject (limitless).
It's already pretty standard if you ask me.
Med students starting their career by abusing prescription drugs?
Honestly though, sometimes I feel that universities having these big tests that require you to study so much material is pretty difficult for students and that it's almost okay to try and manage these things that reward an unnaturally high level of concentration (for a day or two to make deadlines) by using drugs in a responsible manner just during these moments.
Like, what is coffee use if not this in so many cases?
Pharmacology student here.
It's really common, especially med students. You know the side effects and know about the drugs available and what they do, so you can make an educated guess as to whether its worth the risk or not. When studying something like anatomy or anything particularly memory intensive, using these drugs is really, really tempting. I would've too; just they're hard to get in the UK. It's not just "to do better"; it also is to make things easier, and a lot of emphasis is put onto some test marks and their contributions to your final degree; especially if you want to get placement in certain labs. For example, if I want to work in a neuroscience lab I'd need high marks on my excitable cell units.
At least my anecdotal evidence is that good diet and exercise works in all the ways that said drugs are meant to They may give some minor positive effects but its just like losing weight, there simply is no shortcut
Creatine will make you feel more awake/give you a bit more energy. It's possible Piracetam will work with it but drugs hitting the same pathway without solid research is going to be risky.
Piracetam and Modafinil are a bit more complex. I'd say take one or the other as from quickly looking at mechanisms (Modafinil seems to be the source of debate) they shouldn't interfere with each other too much; there's a chance of it and without expert advice in the field I'd be hesitant to try it.
I'd also recommend lowering the dose of both if you're mixing Creatine and another; just to be on the safe side and prevent liver/kidney issues. Creatine seems to be disposed of fairly rapidly but I can't see much without putting more effort in on the metabolism of Piracetam. Also note that if both cause the same side effect (say, nausea) that side effect will likely be intensified.
I did much more research on the stacking part. I see that Modafinil will be only used once in a while, shouldn't stack that at all.
Piracetam and Creatine though, I've read that it's actually good if you stack, seeing as one is a memory enhancer and the other is a energy enhancer making you remember much more quickly. Since I eat eggs everyday, I don't have to add Choline to the mix, also I smoke a lot of marijunana which is a acetylcholinesterase inhibitor. Going to be checking this out, seeing as I'm about to embark on a journey that I will need as much energy as possible and memory.
First of all, it seems as though people are talking about both prescription drugs like modafinil, selegiline, galantamine, and vasopressin interchangeably along with random dietary supplements and chemicals like piracetam. Prescription drugs have been studied by drug companies and scientists for 15 years in order to make it through a very comprehensive 3-stage FDA approval process. They are proven safe and effective in double-blind, randomized, placebo controlled trials in patients with the medical condition the drug is designed to treat. This is a high standard so you can be certain that the drug works when taken properly.
This is compared to supplements and whatever else you buy online. I would never take any of this (vitamins/minerals excluded) or advise a family member of friend to, either. This stuff is not tested for safety or efficacy and in general any evidence for the use is very weak/conflicting. It is unregulated, potentially dangerous, and unlikely to work. Companies aren't required to prove efficacy to market a product so they often don't bother in order to save money. I think people are tempted by broad claims and a quick/easy fix but I would say stay away. Taking random shit like this is how you end up as a yahoo news story for someone that died of contaminated/adulterated whatever.
Having said that, the drugs mentioned are indicated for use in actual medical conditions, not to 'boost intelligence'. Drugs can have nasty side effects and this is a reason that one of guiding principles in medical treatment is to use as few drugs as possible. Is somebody on something they don't need? Cool, take them off of it right away.
galantamine is indicated for treatment of alzheimers. vasopressin has already been mentioned by the ER guy... you don't want to take that if you're healthy. selegiline is an antidepressant/MAO-B inhibitor and has a black box warning (serious FDA warning) for causing suicidal thoughts, also something you would never want to take if healthy. modafinil is a CNS stimulant, so getting a little warmer as far as magically increasing intelligence, but you would still want to use something like adderall (also a CNS stimulant), but actually designed to treat ADHD instead. creatine is for body builders, how would that possibly make you smarter? I don't think anything mentioned in the OP would make you smarter.
The general thought for how a drug works is to correct an imbalance that is making you sick. If you're already healthy then it's likely to not work. Kind of like a person with normal blood pressure would never want to be on a blood pressure med... there's no reason and it can only cause harm. You'll probably be able to pay better attention on adderall, but really if you get enough sleep, exercise, and eat right then you could also boost your energy and attention span. adderall can cause things like insomnia and headache in 1/4 of users, as well as decreased appetite, abdominal pain, dry mouth, etc.
As fun as it is to think that Limitless may be possible, that's not the world we live in today.
On March 19 2013 07:51 calgar wrote: Here's my 2 cents as a PharmD student.
First of all, it seems as though people are talking about both prescription drugs like modafinil, selegiline, galantamine, and vasopressin interchangeably along with random dietary supplements and chemicals like piracetam. Prescription drugs have been studied by drug companies and scientists for 15 years in order to make it through a very comprehensive 3-stage FDA approval process. They are proven safe and effective in double-blind, randomized, placebo controlled trials in patients with the medical condition the drug is designed to treat. This is a high standard so you can be certain that the drug works when taken properly.
This is compared to supplements and whatever else you buy online. I would never take any of this (vitamins/minerals excluded) or advise a family member of friend to, either. This stuff is not tested for safety or efficacy and in general any evidence for the use is very weak/conflicting. It is unregulated, potentially dangerous, and unlikely to work. Companies aren't required to prove efficacy to market a product so they often don't bother in order to save money. I think people are tempted by broad claims and a quick/easy fix but I would say stay away. Taking random shit like this is how you end up as a yahoo news story for someone that died of contaminated/adulterated whatever.
Having said that, the drugs mentioned are indicated for use in actual medical conditions, not to 'boost intelligence'. Drugs can have nasty side effects and this is a reason that one of guiding principles in medical treatment is to use as few drugs as possible. Is somebody on something they don't need? Cool, take them off of it right away.
galantamine is indicated for treatment of alzheimers. vasopressin has already been mentioned by the ER guy... you don't want to take that if you're healthy. selegiline is an antidepressant/MAO-B inhibitor and has a black box warning (serious FDA warning) for causing suicidal thoughts, also something you would never want to take if healthy. modafinil is a CNS stimulant, so getting a little warmer as far as magically increasing intelligence, but you would still want to use something like adderall (also a CNS stimulant), but actually designed to treat ADHD instead. creatine is for body builders, how would that possibly make you smarter? I don't think anything mentioned in the OP would make you smarter.
The general thought for how a drug works is to correct an imbalance that is making you sick. If you're already healthy then it's likely to not work. Kind of like a person with normal blood pressure would never want to be on a blood pressure med... there's no reason and it can only cause harm. You'll probably be able to pay better attention on adderall, but really if you get enough sleep, exercise, and eat right then you could also boost your energy and attention span. adderall can cause things like insomnia and headache in 1/4 of users, as well as decreased appetite, abdominal pain, dry mouth, etc.
As fun as it is to think that Limitless may be possible, that's not the world we live in today.
On March 10 2013 12:30 Epocalypse wrote: Here's another video of the same guy in the OP video... He seems dopey to me, and I wouldn't take him as the best spokesman. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiY5uFLQG2E
That dude talks like a computer. And it looks like he's staring into space the whole time. Also, why'd he shave half his eyebrows? That shit don't look good at all.
I actually ordered from his store. His stuff is great. Bulletproof Coffee is actually pretty good. I love EM Wave too (but then again, it complements my yoga).
MCT Oil, I'm not 100% sure on that yet (if you were never in a diet based on fat, its really hard on your stomach at the beginning).
About Onnit: Alpha GPC is OK. I'm definitely unsure of the price you pay. If it does something, its definitely subtle. New Mood: Haven't seen much difference.
On March 12 2013 07:50 JackDT wrote: Oh boy Dave Asprey. He sells a ton of products and his methods for evaulating scientific evidence are atrocious. I cringe every time he brags on his blog about how many studies on subject X he read. Some examples of things he's selling:
Special coffee that isn't contaminated with toxins like all the other coffee you might drink.
On March 10 2013 13:57 Ramiel wrote: Vasopressin? Interesting. I am an ICU RN, we use this drug for ACLS protocols during cardiac arrest (usually during asystole along with another drug called atropine). I would assume that you would not be taking the vaso in high doses. Because Vaso is a 'pressor' or a medication that at a certain dose range clamps down on the vasculature to increase blood pressure. Most pressors (levophed, norepi, ext ext) are some nasty drugs. Normally they cannot be given peripherally, and in doing so you are damaging many organ systems, and peripheral extremities of the body when used for long periods (which can be a short as a number of days.)
So low dose vasopressin? I have heard of it used at some point for septic shock, but have no practice with it. So tacking vaso.... gives you an increased blood pressure. At lose dose I suppose that it could cause increased urine production. But normally vasopressin given at the clinical level clamps the renal artery down so hard, that you can throw a patient into kidney failure, from lack of blood passing through the kidney. (Imagine twisting a garden hose too tight... no water, or in this case blood goes through to the kidney.)
As for the rest of the drugs, they are usually used in urinary retention, and some for the treatment of narcolepsy... but other than vaso, i have very little clinical practice with any of them. If your looking to 'enhance' your brain function and activity- i would think a much safer, healther and cheaper way would be the following:
8 hours of sleep, 8 glasses of h2o a day, exercise.
But for the lasy people- you can always go and get some pseudoephedrine- this is the over the counter stimulant.
Found in:
Dayquil, pseudophed. That will give you a kick.
Edit:
Also holy shit, i was just looking through the ops list again, and i saw this-
Selegiline
That is an MAOI inhibitor. Normally last line in the use for anti-depressive medications. After SSRI, and tricyclics i think. (Not 100% sure on this, as i don't work psych) From what i remember from nursing school, MAOI's have some serious side effects, as well as dietary effects (ie eating certain foods, like cheese) can cause some wild idiosyncratic effects.
The fact that normal people would advocate the use of these drugs.... is pretty weird. Clinically, we use stimulants to increase function. Not any of the above.
Yeah MAOI's are pretty bad. Lots of things that you can't do while taking MAOI (including eating chocolate). Could fuck up your blood pressure or give you serotonin syndrome. Anyhow good to see a fellow nurse
This isn't entirely correct, as selegiline is a MAO-B inhibitor and will not inhibit MAO-A at low doses, so no dietary restrictions, though I don't know what dosage they're recommending for nootropic effects. Serotonin syndrome is also almost nonexistent in MAOI's; one of their few advantages over the more commonly prescribed SSRI's is their relative lack of side effects.
Whatever "goal" you're striving for by taking nootropics, you can get 90% there by eating a clean diet and taking basic supplements. The next 10%, imo, is wayy too risky for the reward you're going to get.
If you're doing this as a means unto itself, then this doesn't apply to you, but if you're doing this as a means to an end, in order to perform better in your daily life, you're better off staying away until substantial studies come out that give the okay, or at the very least until these substances are tested by more people.
On March 12 2013 07:50 JackDT wrote: Oh boy Dave Asprey. He sells a ton of products and his methods for evaulating scientific evidence are atrocious. I cringe every time he brags on his blog about how many studies on subject X he read. Some examples of things he's selling:
Special coffee that isn't contaminated with toxins like all the other coffee you might drink.
No idea about the vibration or earthing. Sounds/looks gimmicky crap. But his coffee is, honestly, the best.
What 'toxins' are absent that make it more expensive than Starbucks brand (or any other reputable brand)? Do you know that it's not just repackaged folgers? Everything else on the site screams scam so I'm going to guess the coffee is extremely plain and just overpriced. A fool and his money are soon parted, as the saying goes.
On March 12 2013 07:50 JackDT wrote: Oh boy Dave Asprey. He sells a ton of products and his methods for evaulating scientific evidence are atrocious. I cringe every time he brags on his blog about how many studies on subject X he read. Some examples of things he's selling:
Special coffee that isn't contaminated with toxins like all the other coffee you might drink.
No idea about the vibration or earthing. Sounds/looks gimmicky crap. But his coffee is, honestly, the best.
What 'toxins' are absent that make it more expensive than Starbucks brand (or any other reputable brand)? Do you know that it's not just repackaged folgers? Everything else on the site screams scam so I'm going to guess the coffee is extremely plain and just overpriced. A fool and his money are soon parted, as the saying goes.
It's a common psychological trick. Reminds me of this Bullshit episode about bottled water:
On March 12 2013 07:50 JackDT wrote: Oh boy Dave Asprey. He sells a ton of products and his methods for evaulating scientific evidence are atrocious. I cringe every time he brags on his blog about how many studies on subject X he read. Some examples of things he's selling:
Special coffee that isn't contaminated with toxins like all the other coffee you might drink.
No idea about the vibration or earthing. Sounds/looks gimmicky crap. But his coffee is, honestly, the best.
What 'toxins' are absent that make it more expensive than Starbucks brand (or any other reputable brand)? Do you know that it's not just repackaged folgers? Everything else on the site screams scam so I'm going to guess the coffee is extremely plain and just overpriced. A fool and his money are soon parted, as the saying goes.
Its OK if you are skeptical. I was too. Worst-case scenario is I would lose out on 20 bucks (or between 5-10$ opportunity costs) and on the up-side, I would find a great new product (which imo, it is a great product). Not much to lose honestly. And I did use products (e.g: Alpha GPC, Piracetam) which I didn't find that great, but that's OK too.
Its better to know than to be in the dark. A lot of the great things in life came from not being afraid of trying something new or being proven wrong over something I was highly skeptical of.
I've worked at a Starbucks for a few years when I was much younger and I genuinely like Bulletproof Coffee a lot more. I never completely tolerated other coffee since I was in HS almost a decade ago (random bouts of odd depression/), but with BP, it definitely feels different.
So this isin't about: "here are documents X and Y proving that toxins don't exist in this coffee and I went to the laboratories to double-check his claims". Its just: "try it and maybe, just maybe you'l love it too "
I'm sure you've heard of: "never be afraid of making a mistake". This applies to the big things in life and to the small things too (such as the case here).
I have tried piracetam, aniracetam, and oxiracetan. I wanted to get pramiracetam as it is much more potent, iv been unable to find a source for bulk powder. I paired them all with a Choline supplement... One thing i definitely noticed is my short term memory was much better.. I also found it a bit easier to think about things as if my thoughts were clearer. I'm guessing this is the "brain-fog" its supposed to help with. Aniracetam seemed to give me more typos.. don't know what that's about. I know that Pramiracetam and phenyl-piracetam are the most potent of the racetams.. and β-Phenyl-γ-aminobutyric acid (phenibut) is pretty powerful.. For anyone looking to try them i reccomend a choline supplement because it seems to be more effective or atleast synergistic with the lesser racetams. -researched a few years ago information could be slightly inaccurate.
What happens when people become dependent on these drugs within the next 3 years? This is just the elite, doing what they do indoctrinating society on their new agenda of genetic mutation and transhumanism. Sounds nuts? So did Elivs being allowed to shake his hops wildly on T.V. literally ONLY 50yrs. ago. Slowly but surely. First it's this to "better your brain" then it's "I need this to better my whatever" then before you know you're just desensitized to it and you need everything that's on the market for you to "better yourself". Just be cautious, God has given you what you need. There;s always side effects, when you think about it nothing like this "just works" for free.
On March 19 2013 14:17 xContagion wrote: What happens when people become dependent on these drugs within the next 3 years? This is just the elite, doing what they do indoctrinating society on their new agenda of genetic mutation and transhumanism. Sounds nuts? So did Elivs being allowed to shake his hops wildly on T.V. literally ONLY 50yrs. ago. Slowly but surely. First it's this to "better your brain" then it's "I need this to better my whatever" then before you know you're just desensitized to it and you need everything that's on the market for you to "better yourself". Just be cautious, God has given you what you need. There;s always side effects, when you think about it nothing like this "just works" for free.
You're retarded, did you even look to see if there was an addiction potential?
There's none btw
[edit] Just so I don't sound like so much of a dick:
Cognitive enhancers are drugs, supplements, nutraceuticals, and functional foods that enhance attentional control and memory.[5][6] Nootropics are cognitive enhancers that are neuroprotective or extremely nontoxic. Nootropics are by definition cognitive enhancers, but a cognitive enhancer is not necessarily a nootropic. Giurgea's Nootropic Criteria: Enhances learning and memory. Enhance learned behaviors under conditions which are known to disrupt them. Example: hypoxia (oxygen deficiency). Protect the brain from physical or chemical injury. Enhance the tonic cortical/subcortical control mechanisms Exhibit few side effects and extremely low toxicity, while lacking the pharmacology of typical psychotropic drugs (motor stimulation, sedation etc.). Since Giurgea's original criteria were first published, there has been little agreement as to what truly constitutes a nootropic compound. The most well defined criteria to date was established by Skondia in 1979. Skondia utilizes a metabolic approach, taking into account the pharmacological mode of action. Skondia's Nootropic Criteria: I. No direct vasoactivity A. No vasodilation B. No vasoconstriction II. EEG activity: No change in basic rhythm A. Quantitative EEG: Increased power spectrum (beta 2 and alpha) B. Qualitative EEG: Decreased delta waves and cerebral suffering III. Must pass blood-brain barrier A. Under normal conditions B. Under pathological conditions IV. Must show metabolic activity in: A. Animal brain metabolism 1. Molecular 2. Physiopathological B. Human brain metabolism (clinical evaluation) 1. A-V differences a. Increased extraction quotients of O2 b. Increased extraction quotients of glucose c. Reduced lactate pyruvate ratio 2. Regional cerebral metabolic rates (rCMR) a. Increased ICMR of O2 b. Increased rCMR of glucose 3. Regional cerebral blood flow: Normalization V. Minimal side effects VI. Clinical trials must be conducted with several rating scales designed to objectify metabolic cerebral improvement.
On March 19 2013 13:33 FoxShine wrote: I have tried piracetam, aniracetam, and oxiracetan. I wanted to get pramiracetam as it is much more potent, iv been unable to find a source for bulk powder. I paired them all with a Choline supplement... One thing i definitely noticed is my short term memory was much better.. I also found it a bit easier to think about things as if my thoughts were clearer. I'm guessing this is the "brain-fog" its supposed to help with. Aniracetam seemed to give me more typos.. don't know what that's about. I know that Pramiracetam and phenyl-piracetam are the most potent of the racetams.. and β-Phenyl-γ-aminobutyric acid (phenibut) is pretty powerful.. For anyone looking to try them i reccomend a choline supplement because it seems to be more effective or atleast synergistic with the lesser racetams. -researched a few years ago information could be slightly inaccurate.
This post has a lot of good stuff in it, if you want a TL;DR for the whole thread look here
Why SC2? Studies show that if you're good at the game your thought process is practically turned off when you're playing SC. I'm not sure that this kinds of drugs would help you out.
On March 12 2013 07:50 JackDT wrote: Oh boy Dave Asprey. He sells a ton of products and his methods for evaulating scientific evidence are atrocious. I cringe every time he brags on his blog about how many studies on subject X he read. Some examples of things he's selling:
Special coffee that isn't contaminated with toxins like all the other coffee you might drink.
No idea about the vibration or earthing. Sounds/looks gimmicky crap. But his coffee is, honestly, the best.
What 'toxins' are absent that make it more expensive than Starbucks brand (or any other reputable brand)? Do you know that it's not just repackaged folgers? Everything else on the site screams scam so I'm going to guess the coffee is extremely plain and just overpriced. A fool and his money are soon parted, as the saying goes.
this. as a colombian, i can tell you, just invest in a good colombian coffee. you will never look back.
Modalert definitely is NOT a placebo, and adderall even more so (amphetamines are NOT placebo's lol)
Though, what you get out of it is up to you. I totally agree that a good diet + sleep + health is the biggest factor. Keeping your brain clear and awake is only one part of the puzzle
On March 19 2013 18:15 BrTarolg wrote: Modalert definitely is NOT a placebo, and adderall even more so (amphetamines are NOT placebo's lol)
Though, what you get out of it is up to you. I totally agree that a good diet + sleep + health is the biggest factor. Keeping your brain clear and awake is only one part of the puzzle
Everything should, imo, be taken with moderation. Modalert would lose on its effect if used daily, but cycle them a week every time at least.
Amphetamines are horrible though. Dependency, known side effects, etc... Should not take it.
Tried this combination today: Artichoke Leaf Extract 500mg + Forskolin 10mg ($21.00 + $11.50) LifeExtension brand for both.
Tim Ferriss said this:
The quest: Think harder. The drugs: Forskolin (from Coleus forskohlii) and artichoke extract Where to get it: Online Benefits: “If you want to go all-natural for enhancing your learning and memory, this duo fits the bill. Bonus: Artichokes contain luteolin, which can inhibit PDE5, which is also how Cialis and other ED drugs work. Who doesn’t want to demolish Sudoku while sporting a massive boner?
This was my first time trying this and it seemed to have absolutely no effect. Neither did it have the pick me up effect that coffee does, but I didn't get a boner either. I'll try again over the next week to see if there is any difference; but given my first experience I don't expect any results.
On March 10 2013 12:45 Aerisky wrote: Yeah there doesn't seem to be much info on these and I'm really curious as to what they are, exactly... And yeah, obviously there's the idea of that kind of mental drug's affects... interesting though from what I know, I can't really buy into it.
I can say for certain that from that list of compounds, some of them are fairly well defined. Vasopressin for example, is a naturally occurring substance implicated in things like mood, sexual activity, social activity, etc. One of the things on the list is a drug used in treatment of Parkinson's.
I'm sure all of the things on the list do have effects on the brain, but if they were really that useful for boosting IQ points (lol?) or acting as "brain steroids", I think there would be pretty big incentive for a lot of studies into these effects, which just isn't the case. The spokesman dude says on his site:
I blog about how to be a more powerful entrepreneur and human by upgrading your biology at The Bulletproof Executive. I spent 15 years and $250,000 of my own money hacking my biology to gain an unfair advantage in business and life.
I upgraded my brain by >20 IQ points, lost 100lbs, got ripped and became an expert in mental performance, setting my career on fire. My advice has helped hundreds of people upgrade their careers and lives.
...really. Based on that he doesn't appear to know a damn thing about neuroscience, so I would not take advice from the guy on drugs for the brain
Hahaha. If anyone believes this spokesperson based on that, I also have one weird trick to loose weight, aguide on tricking women into sleeping with you, and a secret pill that will add 4 inches to your penis in 4 weeks.
All drugs have a price. Although if this can score you a scholarship and a great career or something like, then it's obviously worth it. But I don't buy any bullshit that advertises a pill as having "zero" long term side effects. Horseshit.
On March 10 2013 12:45 Aerisky wrote: Yeah there doesn't seem to be much info on these and I'm really curious as to what they are, exactly... And yeah, obviously there's the idea of that kind of mental drug's affects... interesting though from what I know, I can't really buy into it.
I can say for certain that from that list of compounds, some of them are fairly well defined. Vasopressin for example, is a naturally occurring substance implicated in things like mood, sexual activity, social activity, etc. One of the things on the list is a drug used in treatment of Parkinson's.
I'm sure all of the things on the list do have effects on the brain, but if they were really that useful for boosting IQ points (lol?) or acting as "brain steroids", I think there would be pretty big incentive for a lot of studies into these effects, which just isn't the case. The spokesman dude says on his site:
I blog about how to be a more powerful entrepreneur and human by upgrading your biology at The Bulletproof Executive. I spent 15 years and $250,000 of my own money hacking my biology to gain an unfair advantage in business and life.
I upgraded my brain by >20 IQ points, lost 100lbs, got ripped and became an expert in mental performance, setting my career on fire. My advice has helped hundreds of people upgrade their careers and lives.
...really. Based on that he doesn't appear to know a damn thing about neuroscience, so I would not take advice from the guy on drugs for the brain
Hahaha. If anyone believes this spokesperson based on that, I also have one weird trick to loose weight, aguide on tricking women into sleeping with you, and a secret pill that will add 4 inches to your penis in 4 weeks.
Just thought id try this for a month. So i got myself some Iodine and B1 (Thirimine) multi vitamins to take once a day for a month. Will see how it goes xD
Ten years ago I went on a quest to become an expert on coffee and to sample as many different ways of making it and as many different varieties that existed. I tried everything from the French Press to the Coffee Siphon, Hawaiian Kona to Jamaican Blue Mountain. But unsatisfied with mere coffee, I went on a quest to find out how to use chemicals to enhance my mind. It had its roots in old high-school days when I'd bring a sixpack of Jolt cola to a computer-programming marathon: cramming together study halls and lunch breaks in my senior year. The nootropics of that era were caffeine, sugar, cortisol, dopamine, epinephrine and norepineprhine, and the last four in that list were all natural hormones my body was making itself....
Very interesting overview of some of the major nootropics. It's also fairly responsible and lays out some of the potential harms of using them.
You guys want a real brain hack? Enjoy your life. The brain cannot tell reality from imagination. Go back to your childhood by imagining things, and then enjoy the time that you have. At work, at home, doing your loundry while you sign your favorite song with that awfull voice you have.
It sticks to your friends and family, and it atracks women, who cant understand why a "looser" like you can be so happy.
You dont need a drug, all you need, is a desire to be happy.
On March 26 2013 02:36 anatase wrote: So anyone tried Creatine ?
I see it being advertised as a muscle gain pill but I don't really care about this.
Any feedback ?
I do feel some clarity whenever I am speaking (or public speaking for that matter). But creatine seems to be really subtle. You're just never sure if it is "working" or not
On March 10 2013 12:45 Aerisky wrote: Yeah there doesn't seem to be much info on these and I'm really curious as to what they are, exactly... And yeah, obviously there's the idea of that kind of mental drug's affects... interesting though from what I know, I can't really buy into it.
I can say for certain that from that list of compounds, some of them are fairly well defined. Vasopressin for example, is a naturally occurring substance implicated in things like mood, sexual activity, social activity, etc. One of the things on the list is a drug used in treatment of Parkinson's.
I'm sure all of the things on the list do have effects on the brain, but if they were really that useful for boosting IQ points (lol?) or acting as "brain steroids", I think there would be pretty big incentive for a lot of studies into these effects, which just isn't the case. The spokesman dude says on his site:
I blog about how to be a more powerful entrepreneur and human by upgrading your biology at The Bulletproof Executive. I spent 15 years and $250,000 of my own money hacking my biology to gain an unfair advantage in business and life.
I upgraded my brain by >20 IQ points, lost 100lbs, got ripped and became an expert in mental performance, setting my career on fire. My advice has helped hundreds of people upgrade their careers and lives.
...really. Based on that he doesn't appear to know a damn thing about neuroscience, so I would not take advice from the guy on drugs for the brain
Hahaha. If anyone believes this spokesperson based on that, I also have one weird trick to loose weight, aguide on tricking women into sleeping with you, and a secret pill that will add 4 inches to your penis in 4 weeks.
Sounds legit, sign me up!
What he wrote is cheesy but it is a pretty well known story. You have to see his biohacking in the same way like Tim Ferris. Its exaggerated, but they are sound advice.
See Grass-Fed beef. Recommended Vitamins, supplements (which btw, can be bought anywhere).
Not sure why and how you guys are so skeptical about using Vitamin D
On March 10 2013 12:16 Epocalypse wrote: Personally, I would like to see absolutely no restrictions on these drugs and any other drugs as it is my body, my life, and my choice what to do with it.
While I generally agree with the concept of personal freedom that you promoted, the other issue is fairness; namely in competition (Chess, Starcraft, etc.), where other performance-enhancing drugs are already prohibited in physical sport.
Aside from that, many people tend to be really stupid and/or ignorant, and will try all sorts of things for recreation, desperation, or experimentation/curosity. Without things like prescriptions and drug laws, the large population of people who don't look carefully before they leap could become a large liability on society with things like health care costs or maybe even unemployment (although I suppose that could possibly be mitigated by increased drug costs, but the issue then is it's somewhat unfair for the legitimate users to be paying more)
In the case of this new drug, they're potentially giving themselves a shorter lifespan or Alzheimer's/psychosis/schizophrenia/etc. without fairly being informed of that possibility.
On March 26 2013 04:56 iloveav wrote: You guys want a real brain hack? Enjoy your life. The brain cannot tell reality from imagination. Go back to your childhood by imagining things, and then enjoy the time that you have. At work, at home, doing your loundry while you sign your favorite song with that awfull voice you have.
It sticks to your friends and family, and it atracks women, who cant understand why a "looser" like you can be so happy.
You dont need a drug, all you need, is a desire to be happy.
One of the things we do as psychologists to determine whether or not someone lies on the psychotic end of the neurotic-borderline-psychotic spectrum in psychodynamic theory is to see if someone has the capacity for "reality testing," or having their brain determine reality from imagination/delusion/hallucination/dream, so in that regard, I disagree.
The quest: Think harder. The drugs: Forskolin (from Coleus forskohlii) and artichoke extract Where to get it: Online Benefits: “If you want to go all-natural for enhancing your learning and memory, this duo fits the bill. Bonus: Artichokes contain luteolin, which can inhibit PDE5, which is also how Cialis and other ED drugs work. Who doesn’t want to demolish Sudoku while sporting a massive boner?
This was my first time trying this and it seemed to have absolutely no effect. Neither did it have the pick me up effect that coffee does, but I didn't get a boner either. I'll try again over the next week to see if there is any difference; but given my first experience I don't expect any results.
On March 24 2013 04:20 MountainDewJunkie wrote: All drugs have a price. Although if this can score you a scholarship and a great career or something like, then it's obviously worth it. But I don't buy any bullshit that advertises a pill as having "zero" long term side effects. Horseshit.
Yup. If there are positive effects, chances are there are negative ones too.
Here's a clip of Tim Ferriss talking about this and modafinil:
I think more studies should be done on nootropics ideally, however, I believe that since they're basically just specific and formulated combinations of vitamins, they should be freely and widely distributed. I see no reason why we should not increase our cognitive abilities and just, in a very basic sense, our capacity to think, perceive and interpret information. Caffeine is actually a huge nootropic, and honestly, no one can deny its effects on mental performance. There's a reason hundreds of thousands of people drink a cup of joe to get their day started.
Personally, I don't take these (what I assume to be) prescription meds like Provigil. Instead, I take vitamins, supplements and foods that have been correlated to increases in mental performance (I say correlated because I don't think there's enough evidence to prove a causal link yet). Essentially, natural nootropics. Things like, as I've already stated, caffeine, omega fish oils (they have a compound in them that is good for mental cognition, I forgot what it's called though), vitamin B-12, and surprisingly, eggs.
Used Modafinil today for studying. First time. It worked pretty good.. I'm writing a report about it (studying psychology). Obviously I am not allowed to use test subjects at my university, so why not do it myself. Didn't seem to stop other great names in history.
On May 16 2013 04:33 Uni1987 wrote: Used Modafinil today for studying. First time. It worked pretty good.. I'm writing a report about it (studying psychology). Obviously I am not allowed to use test subjects at my university, so why not do it myself. Didn't seem to stop other great names in history.
Will post report later if anyone is interested!
I would be more interested in a report on how it affects you in the long-term, if there are any noticeable downsides of any nature, if it remains as useful without increasing the dosage, all that sort of stuff. Not necessarily representative of anything in and of itself (being a one-man test and all) but I'm fairly curious about this topic and as a poster above mentioned, there's not enough research on this.
On May 16 2013 04:33 Uni1987 wrote: Used Modafinil today for studying. First time. It worked pretty good.. I'm writing a report about it (studying psychology). Obviously I am not allowed to use test subjects at my university, so why not do it myself. Didn't seem to stop other great names in history.
Will post report later if anyone is interested!
You need to get your roomie involved, but give him placebo's, see if feeling smarter also straighten his As?
EPT
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