|
On June 13 2018 02:51 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2018 02:21 Lucumo wrote:On June 13 2018 01:44 Aveng3r wrote:On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys". Would you care to explain this statement? On June 13 2018 01:56 Zaros wrote:On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys". What the US has done? Communism and brutal dictatorship has reduced North Korea to what it is. The US just garuntees the independence of the south and sanctions the north as it would any country going for nukes Apart from this partly being a general statement and putting all of the other US stuff aside (ranging from concentration camps over human experimentation to intentionally destabilizing entire regions)...you do know why North Korea hates the US, right? You know, the war crimes they committed...completely obliterating civilian towns, destroying dams, reservoirs (and thus farmland) etc which led to mass starvation. If you really don't know that, you have to be pretty ignorant in this day and age, considering that knowledge is openly available. North Korea hates the US because they are indoctrinated from birth into an ideology by a regime trying to cling to relevance while its neighbor is prospering. North Korea's GDP is comparable to the annual GDP growth of South Korea. The US is not the reason North Korea is poor and starving now. Your flippant mention of concentration camps which I assume is about Japanese internment in WW2, which if I were to guess your age with an average number ended at least two or almost three of your lifetimes ago, when 1% of the DPRK population at this very moment is in camps, it's a little tone-deaf, is that also the US's fault? I think you're unknowingly trying to transplant a Vietnam mindset to the Korean peninsula which is out of place, and as far as I know Vietnam doesn't hate the US or anyway not to the degree North Korea does. Despite the larger and longer extent of US intervention in Vietnam. So something else is going on.
Which is what I just wrote in my post. GDP and being poor etc has nothing to do with anything I wrote. Well, you guessed mostly wrong. And what NK has or doesn't have is not relevant to the discussion as it's about this statement:
On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity?
If you want to argue that the US is in any way better than NK or even not worse, then we can continue. Otherwise, there is no point.
On June 13 2018 02:59 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2018 02:55 Lucumo wrote:On June 13 2018 02:35 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On June 13 2018 02:32 Lucumo wrote:On June 13 2018 02:23 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On June 13 2018 02:21 Lucumo wrote:On June 13 2018 01:44 Aveng3r wrote:On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys". Would you care to explain this statement? On June 13 2018 01:56 Zaros wrote:On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys". What the US has done? Communism and brutal dictatorship has reduced North Korea to what it is. The US just garuntees the independence of the south and sanctions the north as it would any country going for nukes Apart from this partly being a general statement and putting all of the other US stuff aside (ranging from concentration camps over human experimentation to intentionally destabilizing entire regions)...you do know why North Korea hates the US, right? You know, the war crimes they committed...completely obliterating civilian towns, destroying dams, reservoirs (and thus farmland) etc which led to mass starvation. If you really don't know that, you have to be pretty ignorant in this day and age, considering that knowledge is openly available. You're going to need to provide source for everything you listed in this statement. Or how about you actually inform yourself instead of being some lazy ignorant? The human experimentation stuff is well documented, as is the Korean. Same with concentration camps ranging from the more tame ones in WW2 to the ones used in the US-Philippine war. As for the destabilizing part...leaks help, as that is information you only get via that (the Syria Files are a good example for that). Okay. Wow. So this is happening. Burden of proof is on you. You can't make a claim such as those and not have the proof to back it up. I mentioned everything you need to know, so that it's even easier for you to look it up. If anything, if you are American, you should already know about all these things. On June 13 2018 02:40 Plansix wrote:On June 13 2018 02:32 Lucumo wrote:On June 13 2018 02:23 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On June 13 2018 02:21 Lucumo wrote:On June 13 2018 01:44 Aveng3r wrote:On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys". Would you care to explain this statement? On June 13 2018 01:56 Zaros wrote:On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys". What the US has done? Communism and brutal dictatorship has reduced North Korea to what it is. The US just garuntees the independence of the south and sanctions the north as it would any country going for nukes Apart from this partly being a general statement and putting all of the other US stuff aside (ranging from concentration camps over human experimentation to intentionally destabilizing entire regions)...you do know why North Korea hates the US, right? You know, the war crimes they committed...completely obliterating civilian towns, destroying dams, reservoirs (and thus farmland) etc which led to mass starvation. If you really don't know that, you have to be pretty ignorant in this day and age, considering that knowledge is openly available. You're going to need to provide source for everything you listed in this statement. Or how about you actually inform yourself instead of being some lazy ignorant? The human experimentation stuff is well documented, as is the Korean. Same with concentration camps ranging from the more tame ones in WW2 to the ones used in the US-Philippine war. As for the destabilizing part...leaks help, as that is information you only get via that (the Syria Files are a good example for that). So wait, are you saying that NK hates the US because of every bad thing the US did in modern history? Or all of our history? Not because we back South Korea after a Chinese backed North Korea nearly drove South Korea's army into the ocean? And we could have pushed all the way into North Korea at the time, but didn't because we knew China would become directly involved. And what it cost the president at the time to stop the war from continuing. The modern stuff is separate from the relationship between both countries. If you look at my first reply, the first sentence refers to the US in general. The second one wonders about the relationship part. The more modern stuff is mostly irrelevant to what NK thinks/uses. I'm not going to post something more lengthy here, seeing as some users seem to be pretty...eh. It's actually pretty simple. The US gives the premise and basis by committing tons of atrocities, the NK regime builds on that, uses it. The US does more bad stuff elsewhere which can also be used, hence "mostly". So the hate has a solid ground and is well-justified but the regime keeps it alive (it has been quite some time after all) and tries to fuel it as that also supports them. Your argument is nonsensical as it relates to this discussion. What the US has done throughout its short history is well documented and those who care to know, know. What does this have to do with anything US-NK related as of this moment? You can supplant US for Britain and have the same argument. Or interject Japan and Nanking. What is your point alluding to?
You seem to also ignore the original statement Zaros made to which I replied. I pointed out that in "the great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity", the US is, if anything, actually the worse party.
Also, I got warned because I used "lazy ignorant". Interesting.
|
On June 13 2018 03:03 Lucumo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2018 02:51 oBlade wrote:On June 13 2018 02:21 Lucumo wrote:On June 13 2018 01:44 Aveng3r wrote:On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys". Would you care to explain this statement? On June 13 2018 01:56 Zaros wrote:On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys". What the US has done? Communism and brutal dictatorship has reduced North Korea to what it is. The US just garuntees the independence of the south and sanctions the north as it would any country going for nukes Apart from this partly being a general statement and putting all of the other US stuff aside (ranging from concentration camps over human experimentation to intentionally destabilizing entire regions)...you do know why North Korea hates the US, right? You know, the war crimes they committed...completely obliterating civilian towns, destroying dams, reservoirs (and thus farmland) etc which led to mass starvation. If you really don't know that, you have to be pretty ignorant in this day and age, considering that knowledge is openly available. North Korea hates the US because they are indoctrinated from birth into an ideology by a regime trying to cling to relevance while its neighbor is prospering. North Korea's GDP is comparable to the annual GDP growth of South Korea. The US is not the reason North Korea is poor and starving now. Your flippant mention of concentration camps which I assume is about Japanese internment in WW2, which if I were to guess your age with an average number ended at least two or almost three of your lifetimes ago, when 1% of the DPRK population at this very moment is in camps, it's a little tone-deaf, is that also the US's fault? I think you're unknowingly trying to transplant a Vietnam mindset to the Korean peninsula which is out of place, and as far as I know Vietnam doesn't hate the US or anyway not to the degree North Korea does. Despite the larger and longer extent of US intervention in Vietnam. So something else is going on. Which is what I just wrote in my post. GDP and being poor etc has nothing to do with anything I wrote. Well, you guessed mostly wrong. And what NK has or doesn't have is not relevant to the discussion as it's about this statement: Show nested quote +On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? If you want to argue that the US is in any way better than NK or even not worse, then we can continue. Otherwise, there is no point.
The US is better than NK in almost every aspect and metric you can think of. P6 just said it, the US isn't perfect, but would you rather live in the US or NK if those were your only options? You're arguing over nothing of matter. Stay on topic of this threads title and description.
Edit: You're comparing what the US did generations ago to what NK is still doing today. There is enough to be said about what previous administrations have done since the Korean War, but today, that's not the topic.
|
On June 13 2018 03:06 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2018 03:03 Lucumo wrote:On June 13 2018 02:51 oBlade wrote:On June 13 2018 02:21 Lucumo wrote:On June 13 2018 01:44 Aveng3r wrote:On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys". Would you care to explain this statement? On June 13 2018 01:56 Zaros wrote:On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys". What the US has done? Communism and brutal dictatorship has reduced North Korea to what it is. The US just garuntees the independence of the south and sanctions the north as it would any country going for nukes Apart from this partly being a general statement and putting all of the other US stuff aside (ranging from concentration camps over human experimentation to intentionally destabilizing entire regions)...you do know why North Korea hates the US, right? You know, the war crimes they committed...completely obliterating civilian towns, destroying dams, reservoirs (and thus farmland) etc which led to mass starvation. If you really don't know that, you have to be pretty ignorant in this day and age, considering that knowledge is openly available. North Korea hates the US because they are indoctrinated from birth into an ideology by a regime trying to cling to relevance while its neighbor is prospering. North Korea's GDP is comparable to the annual GDP growth of South Korea. The US is not the reason North Korea is poor and starving now. Your flippant mention of concentration camps which I assume is about Japanese internment in WW2, which if I were to guess your age with an average number ended at least two or almost three of your lifetimes ago, when 1% of the DPRK population at this very moment is in camps, it's a little tone-deaf, is that also the US's fault? I think you're unknowingly trying to transplant a Vietnam mindset to the Korean peninsula which is out of place, and as far as I know Vietnam doesn't hate the US or anyway not to the degree North Korea does. Despite the larger and longer extent of US intervention in Vietnam. So something else is going on. Which is what I just wrote in my post. GDP and being poor etc has nothing to do with anything I wrote. Well, you guessed mostly wrong. And what NK has or doesn't have is not relevant to the discussion as it's about this statement: On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? If you want to argue that the US is in any way better than NK or even not worse, then we can continue. Otherwise, there is no point. The US is better than NK in almost every aspect and metric you can think of. P6 just said it, the US isn't perfect, but would you rather live in the US or NK if those were your only options? You're arguing over nothing of matter. Stay on topic of this threads title and description.
You do realize that doesn't make any sense, right? If anything, asking something like: "Would you rather live in Syria or NK if those were your only options?" would make a lot more sense as you usually inflict harm and exploit the people elsewhere.
|
On June 13 2018 03:10 Lucumo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2018 03:06 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On June 13 2018 03:03 Lucumo wrote:On June 13 2018 02:51 oBlade wrote:On June 13 2018 02:21 Lucumo wrote:On June 13 2018 01:44 Aveng3r wrote:On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys". Would you care to explain this statement? On June 13 2018 01:56 Zaros wrote:On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys". What the US has done? Communism and brutal dictatorship has reduced North Korea to what it is. The US just garuntees the independence of the south and sanctions the north as it would any country going for nukes Apart from this partly being a general statement and putting all of the other US stuff aside (ranging from concentration camps over human experimentation to intentionally destabilizing entire regions)...you do know why North Korea hates the US, right? You know, the war crimes they committed...completely obliterating civilian towns, destroying dams, reservoirs (and thus farmland) etc which led to mass starvation. If you really don't know that, you have to be pretty ignorant in this day and age, considering that knowledge is openly available. North Korea hates the US because they are indoctrinated from birth into an ideology by a regime trying to cling to relevance while its neighbor is prospering. North Korea's GDP is comparable to the annual GDP growth of South Korea. The US is not the reason North Korea is poor and starving now. Your flippant mention of concentration camps which I assume is about Japanese internment in WW2, which if I were to guess your age with an average number ended at least two or almost three of your lifetimes ago, when 1% of the DPRK population at this very moment is in camps, it's a little tone-deaf, is that also the US's fault? I think you're unknowingly trying to transplant a Vietnam mindset to the Korean peninsula which is out of place, and as far as I know Vietnam doesn't hate the US or anyway not to the degree North Korea does. Despite the larger and longer extent of US intervention in Vietnam. So something else is going on. Which is what I just wrote in my post. GDP and being poor etc has nothing to do with anything I wrote. Well, you guessed mostly wrong. And what NK has or doesn't have is not relevant to the discussion as it's about this statement: On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? If you want to argue that the US is in any way better than NK or even not worse, then we can continue. Otherwise, there is no point. The US is better than NK in almost every aspect and metric you can think of. P6 just said it, the US isn't perfect, but would you rather live in the US or NK if those were your only options? You're arguing over nothing of matter. Stay on topic of this threads title and description. You do realize that doesn't make any sense, right? If anything, asking something like: "Would you rather live in Syria or NK if those were your only options?" would make a lot more sense as you usually inflict harm and exploit the people elsewhere.
We're discussing USA vs NK. Not another country. So the comparison is valid. If this was a general political thread, then possibly.
You seem to be angry about something.
|
Ah the classic and never ending debate of who did more bad stuff. Here is the real question, what would the NK regime do with military might and economic power to that of the US?
|
On June 13 2018 03:15 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2018 03:10 Lucumo wrote:On June 13 2018 03:06 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On June 13 2018 03:03 Lucumo wrote:On June 13 2018 02:51 oBlade wrote:On June 13 2018 02:21 Lucumo wrote:On June 13 2018 01:44 Aveng3r wrote:On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys". Would you care to explain this statement? On June 13 2018 01:56 Zaros wrote:On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys". What the US has done? Communism and brutal dictatorship has reduced North Korea to what it is. The US just garuntees the independence of the south and sanctions the north as it would any country going for nukes Apart from this partly being a general statement and putting all of the other US stuff aside (ranging from concentration camps over human experimentation to intentionally destabilizing entire regions)...you do know why North Korea hates the US, right? You know, the war crimes they committed...completely obliterating civilian towns, destroying dams, reservoirs (and thus farmland) etc which led to mass starvation. If you really don't know that, you have to be pretty ignorant in this day and age, considering that knowledge is openly available. North Korea hates the US because they are indoctrinated from birth into an ideology by a regime trying to cling to relevance while its neighbor is prospering. North Korea's GDP is comparable to the annual GDP growth of South Korea. The US is not the reason North Korea is poor and starving now. Your flippant mention of concentration camps which I assume is about Japanese internment in WW2, which if I were to guess your age with an average number ended at least two or almost three of your lifetimes ago, when 1% of the DPRK population at this very moment is in camps, it's a little tone-deaf, is that also the US's fault? I think you're unknowingly trying to transplant a Vietnam mindset to the Korean peninsula which is out of place, and as far as I know Vietnam doesn't hate the US or anyway not to the degree North Korea does. Despite the larger and longer extent of US intervention in Vietnam. So something else is going on. Which is what I just wrote in my post. GDP and being poor etc has nothing to do with anything I wrote. Well, you guessed mostly wrong. And what NK has or doesn't have is not relevant to the discussion as it's about this statement: On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? If you want to argue that the US is in any way better than NK or even not worse, then we can continue. Otherwise, there is no point. The US is better than NK in almost every aspect and metric you can think of. P6 just said it, the US isn't perfect, but would you rather live in the US or NK if those were your only options? You're arguing over nothing of matter. Stay on topic of this threads title and description. You do realize that doesn't make any sense, right? If anything, asking something like: "Would you rather live in Syria or NK if those were your only options?" would make a lot more sense as you usually inflict harm and exploit the people elsewhere. We're discussing USA vs NK. Not another country. So the comparison is valid. If this was a general political thread, then possibly. You seem to be angry about something.
We are discussion the image of the US vs the image of NK. Comparing the living conditions in both countries doesn't make any sense and has pretty much no relevance to the image of either country. And if you want to start saying "but", you have to realize that living conditions are an end result.
Not really. I am wondering, however, why people keep trying to steer the discussion away from the original point. And well, I am at least annoyed by you, considering I have a heavy disdain for ignorant as well as lazy people.
On June 13 2018 03:18 Plansix wrote:
Ah the classic and never ending debate of who did more bad stuff. Here is the real question, what would the NK regime do with military might and economic power to that of the US?
In this case, I would argue, it's actually rather easy. As for the question of what the NK regime would do...it's pretty much impossible to know as we lack any sort of usable data. Policies shift, depending on how much power you have and where you are situated. It also depends on how they would have amassed that power. Over time or just "plop"? Still, I highly doubt it would be much conventional warfare. Probably on a similar level as the US at the highest.
|
I also have a distain for people throw around insults but refuse engage in discussion good faith discussion by responding to a question is likely to undercut their main point.
But I’ll do it for you, they would likely find another nation to oppress. China is to powerful is their partner in the region, so my bet is they would make efforts to invade Japan and assert dominance over south china sea and pacific ocean at large.
|
On June 13 2018 03:22 Lucumo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2018 03:15 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On June 13 2018 03:10 Lucumo wrote:On June 13 2018 03:06 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On June 13 2018 03:03 Lucumo wrote:On June 13 2018 02:51 oBlade wrote:On June 13 2018 02:21 Lucumo wrote:On June 13 2018 01:44 Aveng3r wrote:On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys". Would you care to explain this statement? On June 13 2018 01:56 Zaros wrote:On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys". What the US has done? Communism and brutal dictatorship has reduced North Korea to what it is. The US just garuntees the independence of the south and sanctions the north as it would any country going for nukes Apart from this partly being a general statement and putting all of the other US stuff aside (ranging from concentration camps over human experimentation to intentionally destabilizing entire regions)...you do know why North Korea hates the US, right? You know, the war crimes they committed...completely obliterating civilian towns, destroying dams, reservoirs (and thus farmland) etc which led to mass starvation. If you really don't know that, you have to be pretty ignorant in this day and age, considering that knowledge is openly available. North Korea hates the US because they are indoctrinated from birth into an ideology by a regime trying to cling to relevance while its neighbor is prospering. North Korea's GDP is comparable to the annual GDP growth of South Korea. The US is not the reason North Korea is poor and starving now. Your flippant mention of concentration camps which I assume is about Japanese internment in WW2, which if I were to guess your age with an average number ended at least two or almost three of your lifetimes ago, when 1% of the DPRK population at this very moment is in camps, it's a little tone-deaf, is that also the US's fault? I think you're unknowingly trying to transplant a Vietnam mindset to the Korean peninsula which is out of place, and as far as I know Vietnam doesn't hate the US or anyway not to the degree North Korea does. Despite the larger and longer extent of US intervention in Vietnam. So something else is going on. Which is what I just wrote in my post. GDP and being poor etc has nothing to do with anything I wrote. Well, you guessed mostly wrong. And what NK has or doesn't have is not relevant to the discussion as it's about this statement: On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? If you want to argue that the US is in any way better than NK or even not worse, then we can continue. Otherwise, there is no point. The US is better than NK in almost every aspect and metric you can think of. P6 just said it, the US isn't perfect, but would you rather live in the US or NK if those were your only options? You're arguing over nothing of matter. Stay on topic of this threads title and description. You do realize that doesn't make any sense, right? If anything, asking something like: "Would you rather live in Syria or NK if those were your only options?" would make a lot more sense as you usually inflict harm and exploit the people elsewhere. We're discussing USA vs NK. Not another country. So the comparison is valid. If this was a general political thread, then possibly. You seem to be angry about something. We are discussion the image of the US vs the image of NK. Comparing the living conditions in both countries doesn't make any sense and has pretty much no relevance to the image of either country. And if you want to start saying "but", you have to realize that living conditions are an end result. Not really. I am wondering, however, why people keep trying to steer the discussion away from the original point. And well, I am at least annoyed by you, considering I have a heavy disdain for ignorant as well as lazy people. Show nested quote +On June 13 2018 03:18 Plansix wrote:
Ah the classic and never ending debate of who did more bad stuff. Here is the real question, what would the NK regime do with military might and economic power to that of the US? In this case, I would argue, it's actually rather easy. As for the question of what the NK regime would do...it's pretty much impossible to know as we lack any sort of usable data. Policies shift, depending on how much power you have and where you are situated.
And the image of the US is better (used to be anyway) than NK. Your argument holds no water still. The US is a world military power with bases in far too many countries, constantly responding to threats. Do they interfere a lot? Probably. Does the US have an image problem at the moment? Sure, we'll go with that. You still have yet to make any sense or logical/reasoned argument for your statements of past US actions as they currently affect today's political climate in regards to NK and the negotiations currently going on.
And living conditions are the results of the political policy of the ruling government. The US adopted a policy (still in progress) that all should be free to live and do what they want within the confines of established law. NK is a dictatorship that has nowhere near the freedom Americans have.
|
On June 13 2018 03:30 Plansix wrote:
I also have a distain for people throw around insults but refuse engage in discussion good faith discussion by responding to a question is likely to undercut their main point.
But I’ll do it for you, they would likely find another nation to oppress. China is to powerful is their partner in the region, so my bet is they would make efforts to invade Japan and assert dominance over south china sea and pacific ocean at large.
Which question did I not respond to?
What are you basing that assumption on though?
On June 13 2018 03:32 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2018 03:22 Lucumo wrote:On June 13 2018 03:15 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On June 13 2018 03:10 Lucumo wrote:On June 13 2018 03:06 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On June 13 2018 03:03 Lucumo wrote:On June 13 2018 02:51 oBlade wrote:On June 13 2018 02:21 Lucumo wrote:On June 13 2018 01:44 Aveng3r wrote:On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:
[quote]
Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys". Would you care to explain this statement? On June 13 2018 01:56 Zaros wrote:On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:
[quote]
Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys". What the US has done? Communism and brutal dictatorship has reduced North Korea to what it is. The US just garuntees the independence of the south and sanctions the north as it would any country going for nukes Apart from this partly being a general statement and putting all of the other US stuff aside (ranging from concentration camps over human experimentation to intentionally destabilizing entire regions)...you do know why North Korea hates the US, right? You know, the war crimes they committed...completely obliterating civilian towns, destroying dams, reservoirs (and thus farmland) etc which led to mass starvation. If you really don't know that, you have to be pretty ignorant in this day and age, considering that knowledge is openly available. North Korea hates the US because they are indoctrinated from birth into an ideology by a regime trying to cling to relevance while its neighbor is prospering. North Korea's GDP is comparable to the annual GDP growth of South Korea. The US is not the reason North Korea is poor and starving now. Your flippant mention of concentration camps which I assume is about Japanese internment in WW2, which if I were to guess your age with an average number ended at least two or almost three of your lifetimes ago, when 1% of the DPRK population at this very moment is in camps, it's a little tone-deaf, is that also the US's fault? I think you're unknowingly trying to transplant a Vietnam mindset to the Korean peninsula which is out of place, and as far as I know Vietnam doesn't hate the US or anyway not to the degree North Korea does. Despite the larger and longer extent of US intervention in Vietnam. So something else is going on. Which is what I just wrote in my post. GDP and being poor etc has nothing to do with anything I wrote. Well, you guessed mostly wrong. And what NK has or doesn't have is not relevant to the discussion as it's about this statement: On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? If you want to argue that the US is in any way better than NK or even not worse, then we can continue. Otherwise, there is no point. The US is better than NK in almost every aspect and metric you can think of. P6 just said it, the US isn't perfect, but would you rather live in the US or NK if those were your only options? You're arguing over nothing of matter. Stay on topic of this threads title and description. You do realize that doesn't make any sense, right? If anything, asking something like: "Would you rather live in Syria or NK if those were your only options?" would make a lot more sense as you usually inflict harm and exploit the people elsewhere. We're discussing USA vs NK. Not another country. So the comparison is valid. If this was a general political thread, then possibly. You seem to be angry about something. We are discussion the image of the US vs the image of NK. Comparing the living conditions in both countries doesn't make any sense and has pretty much no relevance to the image of either country. And if you want to start saying "but", you have to realize that living conditions are an end result. Not really. I am wondering, however, why people keep trying to steer the discussion away from the original point. And well, I am at least annoyed by you, considering I have a heavy disdain for ignorant as well as lazy people. On June 13 2018 03:18 Plansix wrote:
Ah the classic and never ending debate of who did more bad stuff. Here is the real question, what would the NK regime do with military might and economic power to that of the US? In this case, I would argue, it's actually rather easy. As for the question of what the NK regime would do...it's pretty much impossible to know as we lack any sort of usable data. Policies shift, depending on how much power you have and where you are situated. And the image of the US is better (used to be anyway) than NK. Your argument holds no water still. The US is a world military power with bases in far too many countries, constantly responding to threats. Do they interfere a lot? Probably. Does the US have an image problem at the moment? Sure, we'll go with that. You still have yet to make any sense or logical/reasoned argument for your statements of past US actions as they currently affect today's political climate in regards to NK and the negotiations currently going on. And living conditions are the results of the political policy of the ruling government. The US adopted a policy (still in progress) that all should be free to live and do what they want within the confines of established law. NK is a dictatorship that has nowhere near the freedom Americans have.
Well, I used the wrong word as an image is not a reflection (which would have been the correct choice). So you are not wrong with that one. The US is the world's most aggressive nation, above China and Russia. Just because a lot of that is subtle, it doesn't mean it's there. And without people leaking information, a lot of it we would never know.
I never talked about today's climate though? Like I said above, I pointed out the dissonance in this statement:
"Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity?"
If you think the US is above the NK morality-wise, then sure, there is something to be discussed. If not, then not. Heck, even if you take just the last ten years of the US, they have Syria on their plate which alone counts for a lot.
There is another thing. What about the exploitation of the banana republics by the US? What about "modern colonization"? What about the way they got to their current point? It's like you just look at both countries superficially and go: "Yep, that country is worse".
|
TLADT24920 Posts
On June 13 2018 03:22 Lucumo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2018 03:15 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On June 13 2018 03:10 Lucumo wrote:On June 13 2018 03:06 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On June 13 2018 03:03 Lucumo wrote:On June 13 2018 02:51 oBlade wrote:On June 13 2018 02:21 Lucumo wrote:On June 13 2018 01:44 Aveng3r wrote:On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys". Would you care to explain this statement? On June 13 2018 01:56 Zaros wrote:On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys". What the US has done? Communism and brutal dictatorship has reduced North Korea to what it is. The US just garuntees the independence of the south and sanctions the north as it would any country going for nukes Apart from this partly being a general statement and putting all of the other US stuff aside (ranging from concentration camps over human experimentation to intentionally destabilizing entire regions)...you do know why North Korea hates the US, right? You know, the war crimes they committed...completely obliterating civilian towns, destroying dams, reservoirs (and thus farmland) etc which led to mass starvation. If you really don't know that, you have to be pretty ignorant in this day and age, considering that knowledge is openly available. North Korea hates the US because they are indoctrinated from birth into an ideology by a regime trying to cling to relevance while its neighbor is prospering. North Korea's GDP is comparable to the annual GDP growth of South Korea. The US is not the reason North Korea is poor and starving now. Your flippant mention of concentration camps which I assume is about Japanese internment in WW2, which if I were to guess your age with an average number ended at least two or almost three of your lifetimes ago, when 1% of the DPRK population at this very moment is in camps, it's a little tone-deaf, is that also the US's fault? I think you're unknowingly trying to transplant a Vietnam mindset to the Korean peninsula which is out of place, and as far as I know Vietnam doesn't hate the US or anyway not to the degree North Korea does. Despite the larger and longer extent of US intervention in Vietnam. So something else is going on. Which is what I just wrote in my post. GDP and being poor etc has nothing to do with anything I wrote. Well, you guessed mostly wrong. And what NK has or doesn't have is not relevant to the discussion as it's about this statement: On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? If you want to argue that the US is in any way better than NK or even not worse, then we can continue. Otherwise, there is no point. The US is better than NK in almost every aspect and metric you can think of. P6 just said it, the US isn't perfect, but would you rather live in the US or NK if those were your only options? You're arguing over nothing of matter. Stay on topic of this threads title and description. You do realize that doesn't make any sense, right? If anything, asking something like: "Would you rather live in Syria or NK if those were your only options?" would make a lot more sense as you usually inflict harm and exploit the people elsewhere. We're discussing USA vs NK. Not another country. So the comparison is valid. If this was a general political thread, then possibly. You seem to be angry about something. We are discussion the image of the US vs the image of NK. Comparing the living conditions in both countries doesn't make any sense and has pretty much no relevance to the image of either country. And if you want to start saying "but", you have to realize that living conditions are an end result. Not really. I am wondering, however, why people keep trying to steer the discussion away from the original point. And well, I am at least annoyed by you, considering I have a heavy disdain for ignorant as well as lazy people. Show nested quote +On June 13 2018 03:18 Plansix wrote:
Ah the classic and never ending debate of who did more bad stuff. Here is the real question, what would the NK regime do with military might and economic power to that of the US? In this case, I would argue, it's actually rather easy. As for the question of what the NK regime would do...it's pretty much impossible to know as we lack any sort of usable data. Policies shift, depending on how much power you have and where you are situated. It also depends on how they would have amassed that power. Over time or just "plop"? Still, I highly doubt it would be much conventional warfare. Probably on a similar level as the US at the highest.
I advise you to stop using words such as lazy and ignorant if you want to engage in a fruitful discussion.
|
On June 13 2018 03:32 Lucumo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2018 03:30 Plansix wrote:
I also have a distain for people throw around insults but refuse engage in discussion good faith discussion by responding to a question is likely to undercut their main point.
But I’ll do it for you, they would likely find another nation to oppress. China is to powerful is their partner in the region, so my bet is they would make efforts to invade Japan and assert dominance over south china sea and pacific ocean at large.
Which question did I not respond to? What are you basing that assumption on though?
The general aspirations of China and their close ally, North Korea. China is already pushing the limits of their control in the South China sea. They stole a US underwater drone. If they could get away with it, they would support a full takeover of South Korea and Japan.
You don’t believe that imperialism would just die if the US stopped asserting power in the world?
|
On June 13 2018 03:42 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2018 03:32 Lucumo wrote:On June 13 2018 03:30 Plansix wrote:
I also have a distain for people throw around insults but refuse engage in discussion good faith discussion by responding to a question is likely to undercut their main point.
But I’ll do it for you, they would likely find another nation to oppress. China is to powerful is their partner in the region, so my bet is they would make efforts to invade Japan and assert dominance over south china sea and pacific ocean at large.
Which question did I not respond to? What are you basing that assumption on though? The general aspirations of China and their close ally, North Korea. China is already pushing the limits of their control in the South China sea. They stole a US underwater drone. If they could get away with it, they would support a full takeover of South Korea and Japan. You don’t believe that imperialism would just die if the US stopped asserting power in the world?
China is not irrational though and conventional warfare against a sizable modern nation can only get you so far. It's also why I don't think Russia would ever actually invade Eastern Europe.
Imperialism is well and alive thanks to the US, China and Russia, mostly. If one of them goes away, nothing changes.
|
On June 13 2018 03:51 Lucumo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2018 03:42 Plansix wrote:On June 13 2018 03:32 Lucumo wrote:On June 13 2018 03:30 Plansix wrote:
I also have a distain for people throw around insults but refuse engage in discussion good faith discussion by responding to a question is likely to undercut their main point.
But I’ll do it for you, they would likely find another nation to oppress. China is to powerful is their partner in the region, so my bet is they would make efforts to invade Japan and assert dominance over south china sea and pacific ocean at large.
Which question did I not respond to? What are you basing that assumption on though? The general aspirations of China and their close ally, North Korea. China is already pushing the limits of their control in the South China sea. They stole a US underwater drone. If they could get away with it, they would support a full takeover of South Korea and Japan. You don’t believe that imperialism would just die if the US stopped asserting power in the world? China is not irrational though and conventional warfare against a sizable modern nation can only get you so far. It's also why I don't think Russia would ever actually invade Eastern Europe. Imperialism is well and alive thanks to the US, China and Russia, mostly. If one of them goes away, nothing changes.
Since when have nations ever been rational actors? How many nations have been stupid enough to invade Russia? Or fight protracted wars in the Middle East? China just ended term limits for its head of state, which has always been a great move when you have a charismatic leader at the helm.
Why would a nation the size of China not invade Japan and South Korea? Both of them lack nukes. Both of them are incapable of defending themselves from the full force of the Chinese military. Who would stop them besides the US? The EU? NATO? The world of politics abhors a power vacuum. And the US pulling out of South Korea and ending its defense agreement with Japan would be a power vacuum like we have not seen in our lifetime.
|
On June 13 2018 03:03 Lucumo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2018 02:51 oBlade wrote:On June 13 2018 02:21 Lucumo wrote:On June 13 2018 01:44 Aveng3r wrote:On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys". Would you care to explain this statement? On June 13 2018 01:56 Zaros wrote:On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys". What the US has done? Communism and brutal dictatorship has reduced North Korea to what it is. The US just garuntees the independence of the south and sanctions the north as it would any country going for nukes Apart from this partly being a general statement and putting all of the other US stuff aside (ranging from concentration camps over human experimentation to intentionally destabilizing entire regions)...you do know why North Korea hates the US, right? You know, the war crimes they committed...completely obliterating civilian towns, destroying dams, reservoirs (and thus farmland) etc which led to mass starvation. If you really don't know that, you have to be pretty ignorant in this day and age, considering that knowledge is openly available. North Korea hates the US because they are indoctrinated from birth into an ideology by a regime trying to cling to relevance while its neighbor is prospering. North Korea's GDP is comparable to the annual GDP growth of South Korea. The US is not the reason North Korea is poor and starving now. Your flippant mention of concentration camps which I assume is about Japanese internment in WW2, which if I were to guess your age with an average number ended at least two or almost three of your lifetimes ago, when 1% of the DPRK population at this very moment is in camps, it's a little tone-deaf, is that also the US's fault? I think you're unknowingly trying to transplant a Vietnam mindset to the Korean peninsula which is out of place, and as far as I know Vietnam doesn't hate the US or anyway not to the degree North Korea does. Despite the larger and longer extent of US intervention in Vietnam. So something else is going on. Which is what I just wrote in my post. GDP and being poor etc has nothing to do with anything I wrote. Well, you guessed mostly wrong. And what NK has or doesn't have is not relevant to the discussion as it's about this statement: Show nested quote +On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? If you want to argue that the US is in any way better than NK or even not worse, then we can continue. Otherwise, there is no point. Show nested quote +On June 13 2018 02:59 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On June 13 2018 02:55 Lucumo wrote:On June 13 2018 02:35 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On June 13 2018 02:32 Lucumo wrote:On June 13 2018 02:23 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On June 13 2018 02:21 Lucumo wrote:On June 13 2018 01:44 Aveng3r wrote:On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys". Would you care to explain this statement? On June 13 2018 01:56 Zaros wrote:On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys". What the US has done? Communism and brutal dictatorship has reduced North Korea to what it is. The US just garuntees the independence of the south and sanctions the north as it would any country going for nukes Apart from this partly being a general statement and putting all of the other US stuff aside (ranging from concentration camps over human experimentation to intentionally destabilizing entire regions)...you do know why North Korea hates the US, right? You know, the war crimes they committed...completely obliterating civilian towns, destroying dams, reservoirs (and thus farmland) etc which led to mass starvation. If you really don't know that, you have to be pretty ignorant in this day and age, considering that knowledge is openly available. You're going to need to provide source for everything you listed in this statement. Or how about you actually inform yourself instead of being some lazy ignorant? The human experimentation stuff is well documented, as is the Korean. Same with concentration camps ranging from the more tame ones in WW2 to the ones used in the US-Philippine war. As for the destabilizing part...leaks help, as that is information you only get via that (the Syria Files are a good example for that). Okay. Wow. So this is happening. Burden of proof is on you. You can't make a claim such as those and not have the proof to back it up. I mentioned everything you need to know, so that it's even easier for you to look it up. If anything, if you are American, you should already know about all these things. On June 13 2018 02:40 Plansix wrote:On June 13 2018 02:32 Lucumo wrote:On June 13 2018 02:23 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On June 13 2018 02:21 Lucumo wrote:On June 13 2018 01:44 Aveng3r wrote:On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys". Would you care to explain this statement? On June 13 2018 01:56 Zaros wrote:On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys". What the US has done? Communism and brutal dictatorship has reduced North Korea to what it is. The US just garuntees the independence of the south and sanctions the north as it would any country going for nukes Apart from this partly being a general statement and putting all of the other US stuff aside (ranging from concentration camps over human experimentation to intentionally destabilizing entire regions)...you do know why North Korea hates the US, right? You know, the war crimes they committed...completely obliterating civilian towns, destroying dams, reservoirs (and thus farmland) etc which led to mass starvation. If you really don't know that, you have to be pretty ignorant in this day and age, considering that knowledge is openly available. You're going to need to provide source for everything you listed in this statement. Or how about you actually inform yourself instead of being some lazy ignorant? The human experimentation stuff is well documented, as is the Korean. Same with concentration camps ranging from the more tame ones in WW2 to the ones used in the US-Philippine war. As for the destabilizing part...leaks help, as that is information you only get via that (the Syria Files are a good example for that). So wait, are you saying that NK hates the US because of every bad thing the US did in modern history? Or all of our history? Not because we back South Korea after a Chinese backed North Korea nearly drove South Korea's army into the ocean? And we could have pushed all the way into North Korea at the time, but didn't because we knew China would become directly involved. And what it cost the president at the time to stop the war from continuing. The modern stuff is separate from the relationship between both countries. If you look at my first reply, the first sentence refers to the US in general. The second one wonders about the relationship part. The more modern stuff is mostly irrelevant to what NK thinks/uses. I'm not going to post something more lengthy here, seeing as some users seem to be pretty...eh. It's actually pretty simple. The US gives the premise and basis by committing tons of atrocities, the NK regime builds on that, uses it. The US does more bad stuff elsewhere which can also be used, hence "mostly". So the hate has a solid ground and is well-justified but the regime keeps it alive (it has been quite some time after all) and tries to fuel it as that also supports them. Your argument is nonsensical as it relates to this discussion. What the US has done throughout its short history is well documented and those who care to know, know. What does this have to do with anything US-NK related as of this moment? You can supplant US for Britain and have the same argument. Or interject Japan and Nanking. What is your point alluding to? You seem to also ignore the original statement Zaros made to which I replied. I pointed out that in "the great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity", the US is, if anything, actually the worse party. Also, I got warned because I used "lazy ignorant". Interesting.
I'm Sorry but how is the US worse than a Slave state regime that locks you up and your entire family in a labour/concentration camp for speaking out in anyway different from the Regime way of thinking. A regime that starves its people to feed its military, a regime that will kill anyone who tries to leave, that has essentially brainwashed millions of people.
I don't understand what kind of warped world view you have to have to think North Korea is in any way or measure better than the US.
|
On June 13 2018 04:02 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2018 03:51 Lucumo wrote:On June 13 2018 03:42 Plansix wrote:On June 13 2018 03:32 Lucumo wrote:On June 13 2018 03:30 Plansix wrote:
I also have a distain for people throw around insults but refuse engage in discussion good faith discussion by responding to a question is likely to undercut their main point.
But I’ll do it for you, they would likely find another nation to oppress. China is to powerful is their partner in the region, so my bet is they would make efforts to invade Japan and assert dominance over south china sea and pacific ocean at large.
Which question did I not respond to? What are you basing that assumption on though? The general aspirations of China and their close ally, North Korea. China is already pushing the limits of their control in the South China sea. They stole a US underwater drone. If they could get away with it, they would support a full takeover of South Korea and Japan. You don’t believe that imperialism would just die if the US stopped asserting power in the world? China is not irrational though and conventional warfare against a sizable modern nation can only get you so far. It's also why I don't think Russia would ever actually invade Eastern Europe. Imperialism is well and alive thanks to the US, China and Russia, mostly. If one of them goes away, nothing changes. Since when have nations ever been rational actors? How many nations have been stupid enough to invade Russia? Or fight protracted wars in the Middle East? China just ended term limits for its head of state, which has always been a great move when you have a charismatic leader at the helm. Why would a nation the size of China not invade Japan and South Korea? Both of them lack nukes. Both of them are incapable of defending themselves from the full force of the Chinese military. Who would stop them besides the US? The EU? NATO? The world of politics abhors a power vacuum. And the US pulling out of South Korea and ending its defense agreement with Japan would be a power vacuum like we have not seen in our lifetime.
Russia has been forever and the ME is generally someone that can't counter-invade you.
We have advanced a lot in technology though. Size doesn't matter that much. You can take a lot of damage, especially if you concentrate a lot of your strength (be it military, economic) in one place. Taking that amount of damage isn't really worth it for the conquests. I mean, war stopped being profitable in the late 1800s. After that, you usually only had different ideologies clashing when it comes to great powers. Apart from that, there were one-sided conquests (or what appeared to be one-sided) or ethnic stuff. Smaller, modern nations might lose, but they can still heavily sting. You would need a very good reason to try to conquer those. And then you also have to consider trade relations and alliances etc etc. Also, the US is imperialistic, so them pulling out (by their own choice) is rather unlikely.
|
Again, you are arguing from this rational, analytical historians viewpoint. War isn’t profitable, but that didn’t stop wars post 1800. Nations are not rational actors. Claiming that war won’t happen is based on the false assumption that we have moved beyond warfare. But really the reality is American military dominance has made the act of invading other nations no longer viable for nations like China and Russia. Our retreat from that military dominance won’t be meet with a continuation of the status quo. Nations will respond out of either fear of military conflict or a new found way to shore up some economic weakness in the nation.
|
On June 13 2018 04:19 Lucumo wrote:
I mean, war stopped being profitable in the late 1800s. After that, you usually only had different ideologies clashing when it comes to great powers.
Here are some books worth reading to expand your knowledge: War Is a Racket, Confessions of an Economic Hit Man, The Arms Bazaar, and Eisenhower's 1961 farewell address.
|
Do you think Trump has a shot at the Peace nobel prize after today?
|
He didn’t do anything beyond have congress say “military exercises will continue as normal after today.” It was a photo op and a meeting. Changing the course of NK and selling congress on that deal is going to be much harder work.
|
On June 13 2018 04:56 SoSexy wrote:
Do you think Trump has a shot at the Peace nobel prize after today? Why? He hasn't done anything.
(and because someone will inevitably bring it up, no Obama didn't deserve one either).
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
