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On June 12 2018 21:34 Zaros wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2018 18:05 zeo wrote:On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? I know right. If only we could start a war that could potentially end the lives of hundreds of thousands of Koreans north and south of the border to make humanitarians in the west feel better about themselves. Not wanting to do a nonsense deal with Kim doesn't mean you want to start a war. US could continue to isolate the north and encourage regime change without starting a war.
"encourage regime change" Is that a euphemism for attempting to assassinate him and funding a coup?
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On June 12 2018 21:04 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2018 19:51 Plansix wrote:
The meeting is all talk. We will have to wait years before we see if it did any good. NK could start test launching ICBMs over Japan next month and we would be back to square one. My opinion is the deal was done months ago. Why else would Kim Jong Un release the three American prisoners and blow up their tunnels at their nuclear site last month? (May 25th).Throws away his two trump (ha) cards before the 'important summit'? No, deal was done before.
What is deal? The tunnels were for a test site that they were done using. They have nukes now. The prisoners were to get this meeting set up, which is what a NK leader has wanted for 50 years. I have not heard a single detail of what NK plans on doing going forward. This is a photo op at this point.
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On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity?
Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys".
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On June 12 2018 21:51 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2018 21:04 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On June 12 2018 19:51 Plansix wrote:
The meeting is all talk. We will have to wait years before we see if it did any good. NK could start test launching ICBMs over Japan next month and we would be back to square one. My opinion is the deal was done months ago. Why else would Kim Jong Un release the three American prisoners and blow up their tunnels at their nuclear site last month? (May 25th).Throws away his two trump (ha) cards before the 'important summit'? No, deal was done before. What is deal? The tunnels were for a test site that they were done using. They have nukes now. The prisoners were to get this meeting set up, which is what a NK leader has wanted for 50 years. I have not heard a single detail of what NK plans on doing going forward. This is a photo op at this point.
Well the whole McDonald's thing indicates to me that the deal is more about bidding out some access to commercial interests. Trump just cares less about maintaining western imperial power on the peninsula than any previous president.
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On June 12 2018 22:04 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2018 21:51 Plansix wrote:On June 12 2018 21:04 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On June 12 2018 19:51 Plansix wrote:
The meeting is all talk. We will have to wait years before we see if it did any good. NK could start test launching ICBMs over Japan next month and we would be back to square one. My opinion is the deal was done months ago. Why else would Kim Jong Un release the three American prisoners and blow up their tunnels at their nuclear site last month? (May 25th).Throws away his two trump (ha) cards before the 'important summit'? No, deal was done before. What is deal? The tunnels were for a test site that they were done using. They have nukes now. The prisoners were to get this meeting set up, which is what a NK leader has wanted for 50 years. I have not heard a single detail of what NK plans on doing going forward. This is a photo op at this point. Well the whole McDonald's thing indicates to me that the deal is more about bidding out some access to commercial interests. Trump just cares less about maintaining western imperial power on the peninsula than any previous president.
South Korea has to be one of the worst examples to use for imperialism, FYI. It is hard to be imperialistic when they asked you to come and help them during a war against another imperialistic power. And then become a modern democratic nation. America has done a lot of shitty things across the world, South Korea is not one of them.
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On June 12 2018 22:09 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2018 22:04 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 12 2018 21:51 Plansix wrote:On June 12 2018 21:04 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On June 12 2018 19:51 Plansix wrote:
The meeting is all talk. We will have to wait years before we see if it did any good. NK could start test launching ICBMs over Japan next month and we would be back to square one. My opinion is the deal was done months ago. Why else would Kim Jong Un release the three American prisoners and blow up their tunnels at their nuclear site last month? (May 25th).Throws away his two trump (ha) cards before the 'important summit'? No, deal was done before. What is deal? The tunnels were for a test site that they were done using. They have nukes now. The prisoners were to get this meeting set up, which is what a NK leader has wanted for 50 years. I have not heard a single detail of what NK plans on doing going forward. This is a photo op at this point. Well the whole McDonald's thing indicates to me that the deal is more about bidding out some access to commercial interests. Trump just cares less about maintaining western imperial power on the peninsula than any previous president. South Korea has to be one of the worst examples to use for imperialism, FYI. It is hard to be imperialistic when they asked you to come and help them during a war against another imperialistic power. And then become a modern democratic nation. America has done a lot of shitty things across the world, South Korea is not one of them.
I don't even know where to start with that...
I guess I'll just say that previous presidents didn't want a unified Korea and Trump doesn't give a damn (other than the ego boost he'd get if got it). Let the Koreans decide (without threats from the US) how they want to resolve it.
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On June 12 2018 22:25 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2018 22:09 Plansix wrote:On June 12 2018 22:04 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 12 2018 21:51 Plansix wrote:On June 12 2018 21:04 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On June 12 2018 19:51 Plansix wrote:
The meeting is all talk. We will have to wait years before we see if it did any good. NK could start test launching ICBMs over Japan next month and we would be back to square one. My opinion is the deal was done months ago. Why else would Kim Jong Un release the three American prisoners and blow up their tunnels at their nuclear site last month? (May 25th).Throws away his two trump (ha) cards before the 'important summit'? No, deal was done before. What is deal? The tunnels were for a test site that they were done using. They have nukes now. The prisoners were to get this meeting set up, which is what a NK leader has wanted for 50 years. I have not heard a single detail of what NK plans on doing going forward. This is a photo op at this point. Well the whole McDonald's thing indicates to me that the deal is more about bidding out some access to commercial interests. Trump just cares less about maintaining western imperial power on the peninsula than any previous president. South Korea has to be one of the worst examples to use for imperialism, FYI. It is hard to be imperialistic when they asked you to come and help them during a war against another imperialistic power. And then become a modern democratic nation. America has done a lot of shitty things across the world, South Korea is not one of them. I don't even know where to start with that... I guess I'll just say that previous presidents didn't want a unified Korea and Trump doesn't give a damn (other than the ego boost he'd get if got it). Let the Koreans decide (without threats from the US) how they want to resolve it.
Yeah, unification totally would have happened if it were not for the US. Of course. For the countries to unify, one government needs to give up power or share power with the other. One of the governments is a democracy supported by the US. The other is a brutal dictatorship backed by China. Brutal dictators don’t normally give up power a democracy filled with people that want to see that dictator rot in prison. And China does not want a democracy on its door step.
Not everything is America’s fault. Some things are just the way they are because the people in that nation decided it would be like that.
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On June 12 2018 20:51 Womwomwom wrote:
So Taf, you can't actually provide any working out to your conclusion outside of a vaguely worded statement? Just like how you couldn't provide any working out to your old claim that Clinton's email server was worse than the Enigma machine being cracked.
I mean, your literal argument is "I know how to world works and I can speak Trump while you idiots can't." I'm sorry if that makes me an idiot but that's extremely unconvincing. To bring up Dennis Rodman, people would expect some working out if you argued that he wasn't one of the greatest rebounders of all time. They would want something factual, like a simple rebound rate statistic, rather than a whole bunch of feels that can be summed up as "Probably don't understand what I just said if u don't REALLY hoop"
Really, what makes this situation any different from the 1994 Agreed Framework where the language actually less vague that what we got today? If your argument hinges off an assumption or feeling that a combination of South Korea having a pro-unification administration and Trump having no qualms complementing dictators is going to solve things, feel free to say that. But leave the armchair strategizing at home, there's zero way to dispute any of it because you're not showing any working out.
I walked you through the strategic logic of the publicly available information. You can either do the logical analysis or not. If you require a piece of text written by someone with a PhD next to their name to tell you how to think, you have my sympathy.
You're also claiming I made an argument I did not make. I expect you to retract that statement. That I'm well read enough of Foreign Policy to know a bit about how the public-facing stuff works is just a reality. It took Nixon's staff 3 years of work before they ever agreed to meet with Mao. Reference. Or something like the "Iran Deal", with took several years of discussions before it even became a public one. Reference. As I said, everyone talks, constantly.
What has changed with NK? I don't know exactly, which I've said. However, something has clearly changed within the strategic decision making of the leadership. Deals can't happen if both sides aren't getting something out of it. NK has made plain, since the March letter, that they want security guarantees. Against whom?
There's a reason I keep going back to the assassination of Kim's older brother. "Who killed him?" and "Why?" answer most of the strategic calculations that we have no public information about. Without that information, you cannot judge why NK changed position so rapidly. 9 months & 2 carrier groups in the Sea of Japan ago, Trump was taunting him as "Rocket Man", but now they've opened up the most direct communication between the countries since the founding of NK. Something big changed, but no one will say what it was.
That's why we should be cautiously optimistic about these outcomes. Something big has changed, NK is operating in their public-facing strategic interests, when they previously weren't. Because, again, who does NK need "security guarantees" against?
Also, while we're on the subject, it's going to be fun to find out where NK got a bunch of their missile tech. Those export ban violation prosecutions are going to be fun.
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On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys".
Would you care to explain this statement?
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On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys".
What the US has done? Communism and brutal dictatorship has reduced North Korea to what it is. The US just garuntees the independence of the south and sanctions the north as it would any country going for nukes
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On June 13 2018 01:44 Aveng3r wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys". Would you care to explain this statement?
On June 13 2018 01:56 Zaros wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys". What the US has done? Communism and brutal dictatorship has reduced North Korea to what it is. The US just garuntees the independence of the south and sanctions the north as it would any country going for nukes
Apart from this partly being a general statement and putting all of the other US stuff aside (ranging from concentration camps over human experimentation to intentionally destabilizing entire regions)...you do know why North Korea hates the US, right? You know, the war crimes they committed...completely obliterating civilian towns, destroying dams, reservoirs (and thus farmland) etc which led to mass starvation. If you really don't know that, you have to be pretty ignorant in this day and age, considering that knowledge is openly available.
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On June 13 2018 02:21 Lucumo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2018 01:44 Aveng3r wrote:On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys". Would you care to explain this statement? Show nested quote +On June 13 2018 01:56 Zaros wrote:On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys". What the US has done? Communism and brutal dictatorship has reduced North Korea to what it is. The US just garuntees the independence of the south and sanctions the north as it would any country going for nukes Apart from this partly being a general statement and putting all of the other US stuff aside (ranging from concentration camps over human experimentation to intentionally destabilizing entire regions)...you do know why North Korea hates the US, right? You know, the war crimes they committed...completely obliterating civilian towns, destroying dams, reservoirs (and thus farmland) etc which led to mass starvation. If you really don't know that, you have to be pretty ignorant in this day and age, considering that knowledge is openly available.
You're going to need to provide source for everything you listed in this statement.
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On June 13 2018 02:23 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2018 02:21 Lucumo wrote:On June 13 2018 01:44 Aveng3r wrote:On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys". Would you care to explain this statement? On June 13 2018 01:56 Zaros wrote:On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys". What the US has done? Communism and brutal dictatorship has reduced North Korea to what it is. The US just garuntees the independence of the south and sanctions the north as it would any country going for nukes Apart from this partly being a general statement and putting all of the other US stuff aside (ranging from concentration camps over human experimentation to intentionally destabilizing entire regions)...you do know why North Korea hates the US, right? You know, the war crimes they committed...completely obliterating civilian towns, destroying dams, reservoirs (and thus farmland) etc which led to mass starvation. If you really don't know that, you have to be pretty ignorant in this day and age, considering that knowledge is openly available. You're going to need to provide source for everything you listed in this statement.
Or how about you actually inform yourself instead of being some lazy ignorant? The human experimentation stuff is well documented, as is the Korean. Same with concentration camps ranging from the more tame ones in WW2 to the ones used in the US-Philippine war. As for the destabilizing part...leaks help, as that is information you only get via that (the Syria Files are a good example for that).
User was warned for this post.
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So... The President of the most powerful country in the world met Trump.
Interesting....
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On June 13 2018 02:32 Lucumo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2018 02:23 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On June 13 2018 02:21 Lucumo wrote:On June 13 2018 01:44 Aveng3r wrote:On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys". Would you care to explain this statement? On June 13 2018 01:56 Zaros wrote:On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys". What the US has done? Communism and brutal dictatorship has reduced North Korea to what it is. The US just garuntees the independence of the south and sanctions the north as it would any country going for nukes Apart from this partly being a general statement and putting all of the other US stuff aside (ranging from concentration camps over human experimentation to intentionally destabilizing entire regions)...you do know why North Korea hates the US, right? You know, the war crimes they committed...completely obliterating civilian towns, destroying dams, reservoirs (and thus farmland) etc which led to mass starvation. If you really don't know that, you have to be pretty ignorant in this day and age, considering that knowledge is openly available. You're going to need to provide source for everything you listed in this statement. Or how about you actually inform yourself instead of being some lazy ignorant? The human experimentation stuff is well documented, as is the Korean. Same with concentration camps ranging from the more tame ones in WW2 to the ones used in the US-Philippine war. As for the destabilizing part...leaks help, as that is information you only get via that (the Syria Files are a good example for that).
Okay. Wow. So this is happening. Burden of proof is on you. You can't make a claim such as those and not have the proof to back it up.
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On June 13 2018 02:32 Lucumo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2018 02:23 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On June 13 2018 02:21 Lucumo wrote:On June 13 2018 01:44 Aveng3r wrote:On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys". Would you care to explain this statement? On June 13 2018 01:56 Zaros wrote:On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys". What the US has done? Communism and brutal dictatorship has reduced North Korea to what it is. The US just garuntees the independence of the south and sanctions the north as it would any country going for nukes Apart from this partly being a general statement and putting all of the other US stuff aside (ranging from concentration camps over human experimentation to intentionally destabilizing entire regions)...you do know why North Korea hates the US, right? You know, the war crimes they committed...completely obliterating civilian towns, destroying dams, reservoirs (and thus farmland) etc which led to mass starvation. If you really don't know that, you have to be pretty ignorant in this day and age, considering that knowledge is openly available. You're going to need to provide source for everything you listed in this statement. Or how about you actually inform yourself instead of being some lazy ignorant? The human experimentation stuff is well documented, as is the Korean. Same with concentration camps ranging from the more tame ones in WW2 to the ones used in the US-Philippine war. As for the destabilizing part...leaks help, as that is information you only get via that (the Syria Files are a good example for that).
So wait, are you saying that NK hates the US because of every bad thing the US did in modern history? Or all of our history? Not because we back South Korea after a Chinese backed North Korea nearly drove South Korea's army into the ocean? And we could have pushed all the way into North Korea at the time, but didn't because we knew China would become directly involved. And what it cost the president at the time to stop the war from continuing.
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On June 13 2018 02:21 Lucumo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2018 01:44 Aveng3r wrote:On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys". Would you care to explain this statement? Show nested quote +On June 13 2018 01:56 Zaros wrote:On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys". What the US has done? Communism and brutal dictatorship has reduced North Korea to what it is. The US just garuntees the independence of the south and sanctions the north as it would any country going for nukes Apart from this partly being a general statement and putting all of the other US stuff aside (ranging from concentration camps over human experimentation to intentionally destabilizing entire regions)...you do know why North Korea hates the US, right? You know, the war crimes they committed...completely obliterating civilian towns, destroying dams, reservoirs (and thus farmland) etc which led to mass starvation. If you really don't know that, you have to be pretty ignorant in this day and age, considering that knowledge is openly available.
North Korea hates the US because they are indoctrinated from birth into an ideology by a regime trying to cling to relevance while its neighbor is prospering. North Korea's GDP is comparable to the annual GDP growth of South Korea. The US is not the reason North Korea is poor and starving now. Your flippant mention of concentration camps which I assume is about Japanese internment in WW2, which if I were to guess your age with an average number ended at least two or almost three of your lifetimes ago, when 1% of the DPRK population at this very moment is in camps, it's a little tone-deaf, is that also the US's fault?
I think you're unknowingly trying to transplant a Vietnam mindset to the Korean peninsula which is out of place, and as far as I know Vietnam doesn't hate the US or anyway not to the degree North Korea does. Despite the larger and longer extent of US intervention in Vietnam. So something else is going on.
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On June 13 2018 02:35 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2018 02:32 Lucumo wrote:On June 13 2018 02:23 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On June 13 2018 02:21 Lucumo wrote:On June 13 2018 01:44 Aveng3r wrote:On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys". Would you care to explain this statement? On June 13 2018 01:56 Zaros wrote:On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys". What the US has done? Communism and brutal dictatorship has reduced North Korea to what it is. The US just garuntees the independence of the south and sanctions the north as it would any country going for nukes Apart from this partly being a general statement and putting all of the other US stuff aside (ranging from concentration camps over human experimentation to intentionally destabilizing entire regions)...you do know why North Korea hates the US, right? You know, the war crimes they committed...completely obliterating civilian towns, destroying dams, reservoirs (and thus farmland) etc which led to mass starvation. If you really don't know that, you have to be pretty ignorant in this day and age, considering that knowledge is openly available. You're going to need to provide source for everything you listed in this statement. Or how about you actually inform yourself instead of being some lazy ignorant? The human experimentation stuff is well documented, as is the Korean. Same with concentration camps ranging from the more tame ones in WW2 to the ones used in the US-Philippine war. As for the destabilizing part...leaks help, as that is information you only get via that (the Syria Files are a good example for that). Okay. Wow. So this is happening. Burden of proof is on you. You can't make a claim such as those and not have the proof to back it up.
I mentioned everything you need to know, so that it's even easier for you to look it up. If anything, if you are American, you should already know about all these things.
On June 13 2018 02:40 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2018 02:32 Lucumo wrote:On June 13 2018 02:23 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On June 13 2018 02:21 Lucumo wrote:On June 13 2018 01:44 Aveng3r wrote:On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys". Would you care to explain this statement? On June 13 2018 01:56 Zaros wrote:On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys". What the US has done? Communism and brutal dictatorship has reduced North Korea to what it is. The US just garuntees the independence of the south and sanctions the north as it would any country going for nukes Apart from this partly being a general statement and putting all of the other US stuff aside (ranging from concentration camps over human experimentation to intentionally destabilizing entire regions)...you do know why North Korea hates the US, right? You know, the war crimes they committed...completely obliterating civilian towns, destroying dams, reservoirs (and thus farmland) etc which led to mass starvation. If you really don't know that, you have to be pretty ignorant in this day and age, considering that knowledge is openly available. You're going to need to provide source for everything you listed in this statement. Or how about you actually inform yourself instead of being some lazy ignorant? The human experimentation stuff is well documented, as is the Korean. Same with concentration camps ranging from the more tame ones in WW2 to the ones used in the US-Philippine war. As for the destabilizing part...leaks help, as that is information you only get via that (the Syria Files are a good example for that). So wait, are you saying that NK hates the US because of every bad thing the US did in modern history? Or all of our history? Not because we back South Korea after a Chinese backed North Korea nearly drove South Korea's army into the ocean? And we could have pushed all the way into North Korea at the time, but didn't because we knew China would become directly involved. And what it cost the president at the time to stop the war from continuing.
The modern stuff is separate from the relationship between both countries. If you look at my first reply, the first sentence refers to the US in general. The second one wonders about the relationship part. The more modern stuff is mostly irrelevant to what NK thinks/uses.
I'm not going to post something more lengthy here, seeing as some users seem to be pretty...eh. It's actually pretty simple. The US gives the premise and basis by committing tons of atrocities, the NK regime builds on that, uses it. The US does more bad stuff elsewhere which can also be used, hence "mostly". So the hate has a solid ground and is well-justified but the regime keeps it alive (it has been quite some time after all) and tries to fuel it as that also supports them.
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On June 13 2018 02:55 Lucumo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2018 02:35 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On June 13 2018 02:32 Lucumo wrote:On June 13 2018 02:23 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On June 13 2018 02:21 Lucumo wrote:On June 13 2018 01:44 Aveng3r wrote:On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys". Would you care to explain this statement? On June 13 2018 01:56 Zaros wrote:On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys". What the US has done? Communism and brutal dictatorship has reduced North Korea to what it is. The US just garuntees the independence of the south and sanctions the north as it would any country going for nukes Apart from this partly being a general statement and putting all of the other US stuff aside (ranging from concentration camps over human experimentation to intentionally destabilizing entire regions)...you do know why North Korea hates the US, right? You know, the war crimes they committed...completely obliterating civilian towns, destroying dams, reservoirs (and thus farmland) etc which led to mass starvation. If you really don't know that, you have to be pretty ignorant in this day and age, considering that knowledge is openly available. You're going to need to provide source for everything you listed in this statement. Or how about you actually inform yourself instead of being some lazy ignorant? The human experimentation stuff is well documented, as is the Korean. Same with concentration camps ranging from the more tame ones in WW2 to the ones used in the US-Philippine war. As for the destabilizing part...leaks help, as that is information you only get via that (the Syria Files are a good example for that). Okay. Wow. So this is happening. Burden of proof is on you. You can't make a claim such as those and not have the proof to back it up. I mentioned everything you need to know, so that it's even easier for you to look it up. If anything, if you are American, you should already know about all these things. Show nested quote +On June 13 2018 02:40 Plansix wrote:On June 13 2018 02:32 Lucumo wrote:On June 13 2018 02:23 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On June 13 2018 02:21 Lucumo wrote:On June 13 2018 01:44 Aveng3r wrote:On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys". Would you care to explain this statement? On June 13 2018 01:56 Zaros wrote:On June 12 2018 22:01 Lucumo wrote:On June 12 2018 15:09 Zaros wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it repulsive that the so called leader of the free world will not only make a deal but a public deal and talk about their great relationship with a mass murderer with crimes against humanity? Why? If anything, the US is the worse party here. I also doubt they will ever apologize for what they have done to NK because, hey, they are the "good guys". What the US has done? Communism and brutal dictatorship has reduced North Korea to what it is. The US just garuntees the independence of the south and sanctions the north as it would any country going for nukes Apart from this partly being a general statement and putting all of the other US stuff aside (ranging from concentration camps over human experimentation to intentionally destabilizing entire regions)...you do know why North Korea hates the US, right? You know, the war crimes they committed...completely obliterating civilian towns, destroying dams, reservoirs (and thus farmland) etc which led to mass starvation. If you really don't know that, you have to be pretty ignorant in this day and age, considering that knowledge is openly available. You're going to need to provide source for everything you listed in this statement. Or how about you actually inform yourself instead of being some lazy ignorant? The human experimentation stuff is well documented, as is the Korean. Same with concentration camps ranging from the more tame ones in WW2 to the ones used in the US-Philippine war. As for the destabilizing part...leaks help, as that is information you only get via that (the Syria Files are a good example for that). So wait, are you saying that NK hates the US because of every bad thing the US did in modern history? Or all of our history? Not because we back South Korea after a Chinese backed North Korea nearly drove South Korea's army into the ocean? And we could have pushed all the way into North Korea at the time, but didn't because we knew China would become directly involved. And what it cost the president at the time to stop the war from continuing. The modern stuff is separate from the relationship between both countries. If you look at my first reply, the first sentence refers to the US in general. The second one wonders about the relationship part. The more modern stuff is mostly irrelevant to what NK thinks/uses. I'm not going to post something more lengthy here, seeing as some users seem to be pretty...eh. It's actually pretty simple. The US gives the premise and basis by committing tons of atrocities, the NK regime builds on that, uses it. The US does more bad stuff elsewhere which can also be used, hence "mostly". So the hate has a solid ground and is well-justified but the regime keeps it alive (it has been quite some time after all) and tries to fuel it as that also supports them.
Your argument is nonsensical as it relates to this discussion. What the US has done throughout its short history is well documented and those who care to know, know. What does this have to do with anything US-NK related as of this moment? You can supplant US for Britain and have the same argument. Or interject Japan and Nanking. What is your point alluding to?
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Rulers abusing their citizens to maintain a grasp on power is as old as humanity itself. The US did not invent abuse and atrocities. The US is far from a perfect nation, but we did not invest or drive NK to be the way it is. If we magically left SK and that entire region tomorrow, NK would be unchanged.
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