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I'm currently a high school senior in California and just received the news that I got accepted to UC Berkeley, UCLA, UC Irvine, Duke, and Johns Hopkins. For now, I want to pursue medical field, but it may change as I attend undergrad.
The obvious choice seems to be Johns Hopkins due to its prestige as a medical school. However, I also heard that it is really tough to get good grades there, the urban environment is supposedly depressing(?), and that undergrad basically doesn't matter, and that even the facility- ranging from teachers, board, dorm, counselors, food - is at the same level as UC Berkeley's, which is a public school.
For reference, I got into Bio-Medical Engineering major in Johns Hopkins. I will have to pay around 20 k for JHU and UCB, and around 13-14 k for UCLA.
Any Suggestions?
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UC Berkeley is the nation's top public school. It isn't exactly easy to get good grades (but that really depends on what kinda student you are =p). UCB is an awesome school though. I'd recommend going there. Then again I may be biased =).
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save your money and go to a JC the first two years.
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On April 03 2006 17:19 DN2perfectionGM wrote:
I'm currently a high school senior in California and just received the news that I got accepted to UC Berkeley, UCLA, UC Irvine, Duke, and Johns Hopkins. For now, I want to pursue medical field, but it may change as I attend undergrad.
The obvious choice seems to be Johns Hopkins due to its prestige as a medical school. However, I also heard that it is really tough to get good grades there, the urban environment is supposedly depressing(?), and that undergrad basically doesn't matter, and that even the facility- ranging from teachers, board, dorm, counselors, food - is at the same level as UC Berkeley's, which is a public school.
For reference, I got into Bio-Medical Engineering major in Johns Hopkins. I will have to pay around 20 k for JHU and UCB, and around 13-14 k for UCLA.
Any Suggestions?
What was your GPA + SAT + STATE + EC's?
This won't help with your decision, but it will sure help me in finding the level i need to be.
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intrigue
Washington, D.C9933 Posts
i suggest not going to jhu. i visited and have friends near there; it is extremely depressing to live there. also, baltimore is one of my least favorite cities next to pittsburgh, and although i know schools like berkeley are also near dangerous areas such as oakland, jhu has a shitty campus on top of a locale with high crime rates. you'll have to weigh going to a very good school (#1 in biomed engineering, your major) against your environment for the next four years.
from what i hear, berkeley really kicks ass. gl hf =) and post your decision when you make it
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just don't go to oakland =P.
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It's a win-win-win situation. Assuming you've visited these schools, choose the one with the best overall environment--the city, kids, weather, social life, activities, etc.
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I go to Duke undergrad. Duke is a great place for medical students, not just because of its schools but because of the area it's in. If you decide not to go the medical route, it's also a good school for studying in general. The faculty and administration are absolutely wonderful - they've treated me very well and have been very caring. The social scene is thriving, lots of good sports teams if you're into that. I could go on but not sure what exactly you care most about.
If you want more info, message me on AIM: wazdawg MSN: tjw4@duke.edu
It's true that undergrad school doesn't really matter - you can attend the worst undergrad school on your list and, with the right performance, can get into any grad school.
edit: when i say it doesnt matter, i just mean it doesnt matter that much as a means for the rest of your career. it matters greatly for how much you like it 
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Wow...you're the first person I've seen in this forum whose decided on a career in medicine (other than me ^^). Good job!
Re. JHU, I don't mean to sound like I'm flaming the school or anything (I didn't even apply to it, my HS grades were pretty terrible), but from what I've heard from old classmates is that it simply isn't worth it. I've *heard* - again, not from first hand experience - the atmosphere was overly competitive and not exactly friendly to people in need of help. Of course, you might be the type to thrive in that sort of environment so I guess the deciding factor would be whether or not Baltimore is your cup of tea. Personally, I hate the weather there (humid) and the ghetto urban sprawl around it isn't what I would call a happy place.
Berkely is also a difficult school according to my friends but from my visits there I found the atmosphere to be much more sympathetic. Theres heavy competition there as well (all UCs are, apparently), but I think you will enjoy the environment there much more. Its very lively :oD.
Oh and you'll also save a buttload of money here as opposed to JHU. You're gonna need that for the 35k+ a year you'll be spending in medical school
UCLA seems to be a *much* easier school compared to the above two in terms of difficulty levels in the core and upper division sciences that you will be saturated in. Again, this is from heresay though I've had attempted some of their tests from friends of mine - not too difficult, even compared to my school.
I'd also like to address the JHU aura that so many people have had
Btw, I came from UCR so my opinions and insights might not matter so much...theres a lot of smart cookies in this forum though that might be able to contribute more info on this.
I can tell you though that uniformly, medical schools prefer the higher GPA/MCAT combination much more than the actual school you came from. A 2.5 at MIT will get you pretty much *nowhere* while a 3.8 at a Cal State (coupled with a 33+ MCAT) will make you a competative applicant in many medical schools.
If you want to get into a *good* medical school, I think the least of your worries should be the prestige of your undergraduate institution. I would recommend laying off the SC (blasphemy! but it really fucked up my GPA first two years) and focus on earning a LOT of volunteering/research hours, starting clubs, going on clinical missions and maintaining your GPA. That shouldn't be that big a problem considering you were a stellar HS student, but college level work also demands a different type of concentration. Best of luck!
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I went to JHU for some summer program, and although the program itself was great, I didn't like the feel of Baltimore and JHU's campus.
I think I'm also going to head into the medical field, and I'm almost sure I'm going to Duke, so come to Duke with me and we can join Nony :D
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First of all, congratulations.
A few thoughts:
All of those schools will provide you with a great number of opportunities that will all strengthen your candidacy as a pre-med applicant. It basically somes down to what environment you think is better for you.
The advantages of a private school are in the low student to faculty ratio. A better ratio means:
1) it's easier it is to get good recommendation letters
2) it's easier it is to secure a good research position
Both of these are important considerations for med school. If your G-chem class has 200 people (not too unlikely at any of your Cali schools), then it'll be harder to catch the professor after class. You seem pretty driven though, and you can certainly get those at either Cal or UCLA if you don't mind working a bit,
I would shy away from Irvine just because it's such a lousy college town. You want to live it up a little...you know...work hard and play hard.
That said, it would be far better to have a 3.9 at UCI than to have a 3.4 at Hopkins, everything else being equal. For that reason, I would also hesitate to pursue an engineering degree because the average GPA is so much lower, plus the mentality and atmosphere is just a bit different. Not "bad" different, but probably not traditional for applying to med school.
I do NOT think you should base your decision on Hopkins being a prestigious medical school. UCLA is near the top 10 in med schools, Duke is top 5, and Berkeley's affiliate med school UCSF is also top 5. I really don't think it means anything when you're applying.
Go where you think you can thrive. That is the bottom line. If you don't like where you are, you are not going to be as motivated. Since it looks like you got scholarships that nearly equal out what you have to pay, visit the campuses, talk to the students, ask about their premed opportunities, and spend a day touring the college town.
I don't think you can go wrong with any of those choices, provided you work hard and enjoy the atmosphere.
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Just fyi, UCLA is in the top 10 in med schools (beh I'm waiting for my acceptance letter- *prays*). They're a smidge below Duke and above Yale (whoa it didn't look right to me either but I read it on US News). Like Radar said(edit: like what everyone said, I type too damn slow), you can't really go wrong with any of your options.
Radar, I have a couple questions for you regarding the engineering pathway you mentioned.
How is the average GPA lower than a "traditional" biochemistry/biology student? I would imagine that the averages are around the same score (2.8-3.2). Perhaps you mean its more competative/difficult to stand out? That would make more sense for me.
Also, my understanding is that it is not necessarily a bad thing approach the medical school process in a non-traditional manner. Humanities majors typically have the highest mean MCAT score, followed by math majors, engineers then -sadly- the science majors who studied so hard for that forsaken test for 3+ years. I would argue that if you happen to succeed in a non-traditional path, you have a much higher chance of getting into a prestigious medical school simply because your Liberal Women's Feminist Studies coupled with your awesome MCAT, would make your application stand out much more than the 40000 or so Biology majors applying for a slot.
Btw what's wrong with Irvine? I like the asian population T_T.
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MURICA15980 Posts
I heard Johns Hopkins Pre-Med has a 95% acceptance rate to medical schools. Take that however you want.
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Braavos36374 Posts
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http://www.jhu.edu/~jhumag/0402web/wholly2.html
I didn't realize the acceptance rate was that high. *If* I were you I'd take JHU purely because of that. Of course, I did spectacularly bad in my first years in college and it led to a hellish med school application process (30 applications, 1 pending acceptance, jesus.). I don't expect that you will follow that miserable example, of course.
Still, I'd factor in the costs, the student life and the general feel of the college. Again, you seem to be intelligent enought to succeed at any college you choose (unlike me T_T). You might as well enjoy it ^_^.
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On April 03 2006 18:24 radar14 wrote:
First of all, congratulations.
A few thoughts:
All of those schools will provide you with a great number of opportunities that will all strengthen your candidacy as a pre-med applicant. It basically somes down to what environment you think is better for you.
The advantages of a private school are in the low student to faculty ratio. A better ratio means:
1) it's easier it is to get good recommendation letters
2) it's easier it is to secure a good research position
Both of these are important considerations for med school. If your G-chem class has 200 people (not too unlikely at any of your Cali schools), then it'll be harder to catch the professor after class. You seem pretty driven though, and you can certainly get those at either Cal or UCLA if you don't mind working a bit,
I would shy away from Irvine just because it's such a lousy college town. You want to live it up a little...you know...work hard and play hard.
That said, it would be far better to have a 3.9 at UCI than to have a 3.4 at Hopkins, everything else being equal. For that reason, I would also hesitate to pursue an engineering degree because the average GPA is so much lower, plus the mentality and atmosphere is just a bit different. Not "bad" different, but probably not traditional for applying to med school.
I do NOT think you should base your decision on Hopkins being a prestigious medical school. UCLA is near the top 10 in med schools, Duke is top 5, and Berkeley's affiliate med school UCSF is also top 5. I really don't think it means anything when you're applying.
Go where you think you can thrive. That is the bottom line. If you don't like where you are, you are not going to be as motivated. Since it looks like you got scholarships that nearly equal out what you have to pay, visit the campuses, talk to the students, ask about their premed opportunities, and spend a day touring the college town.
I don't think you can go wrong with any of those choices, provided you work hard and enjoy the atmosphere.
Here's a hint: don't get your recommendation from your gen chem teacher. You want your rec letters to come from people who know you from research or from upper division or graduate level (as an undergrad, yes) work. If you're applying to an RU (undergradute research, yes it is RU and not UR, I have no idea why), you're probably going to be stuck getting your recs from an upper div teacher.
In an upper div class, it's pretty easy to get noticed if you really shine, because upper div rarely goes over 30 students pretty much regardless of where you are (unless your university tries to seperate the men from the boys much later on, which is highly unusual). Nevertheless, there still is a trade-off, but it's more based on your individual personality.
In larger schools with a larger department in your field, there will be fewer people getting those exceptional letters of recommendation. However, to get one, you have to be aggressive. You have to get to know a prof and spend a lot of time in his office hours. This is the real advantage to doing grad level work as an undergrad -- it gives you more opportunities to ask questions (since spending 1+ hour(s) a week for a few months in office hours for an upper div class either means you don't have what it takes or you're pretending you don't have what it takes, which certainly won't get you anywhere).
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United States5262 Posts
OMG IF YOU WANT TO BE A DOCTOR GO TO JOHNS HOPKINS OR UCSD THEY HAVE SUCH GOOD MED PROGRAMS
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The real bottom line is that as a high schooler, you really don't know the things you need to know about yourself to know what school to go to. I had a number of reasons for picking the college I did over some others that were stronger, and I was happy with that decision until it came time when I moved from a dorm to an apartment (since my school does not guarantee housing) and I discovered how much of a hassel that truly is. I'm still having a good time, but I've had some regrets, although it doesn't make sense for me to leave now since my school is very open about letting me take grad classes as an undergrad and since I already have several professors in my corner.
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I'm also a HS senior from California and I would definitely pick Berkeley. Berkeley is such a good deal for an undergraduate education that it would be a shame not to take it. I realize that JHU and Duke are good schools, but imo, they are not good enough to spend $40k on. I would only spend that much money on top tier schools (HYP, MIT, Stanford, Wharton, CIT)
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
JHU BME dept is EXTREMELY cutthroat and pple are ubercompetitive. If you want to get in touch with pple who go there, I have friends that I can get online for u to talk with =)
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On April 03 2006 18:40 fig_newbie wrote:
Just fyi, UCLA is in the top 10 in med schools (beh I'm waiting for my acceptance letter- *prays*). They're a smidge below Duke and above Yale (whoa it didn't look right to me either but I read it on US News). Like Radar said(edit: like what everyone said, I type too damn slow), you can't really go wrong with any of your options.
Radar, I have a couple questions for you regarding the engineering pathway you mentioned.
How is the average GPA lower than a "traditional" biochemistry/biology student? I would imagine that the averages are around the same score (2.8-3.2). Perhaps you mean its more competative/difficult to stand out? That would make more sense for me.
Also, my understanding is that it is not necessarily a bad thing approach the medical school process in a non-traditional manner. Humanities majors typically have the highest mean MCAT score, followed by math majors, engineers then -sadly- the science majors who studied so hard for that forsaken test for 3+ years. I would argue that if you happen to succeed in a non-traditional path, you have a much higher chance of getting into a prestigious medical school simply because your Liberal Women's Feminist Studies coupled with your awesome MCAT, would make your application stand out much more than the 40000 or so Biology majors applying for a slot.
Btw what's wrong with Irvine? I like the asian population T_T.
Engineering is undoubtedly harder than the easier sciences like psychobiology and biology. Engineering majors face stricter admissions requirements than any other major, so on average the students are more capable than the average science major student. Once again, it's doable, but you have to be extremely gifted to take all your engineering classes, premed classes, and still maintain a competitive GPA.
On a similar note, I think that any humanities or liberal arts major that apply to med school are extraordinary. These are extremely intelligent people that excel at two nearly opposite aspects of college coursework. It's also helpful for the MCAT because that test is ALL about reading comprehension. Yes, you need to learn scienctific material, but what will get you the great scores is being able to quickly read the passages and eliminate answers based on incomplete information. And liberal arts majors are great at that. Once again, it's harder to take this route. It's hard to find a group of students to study with for both your humanities and science classes...you tend to bond with people in your major. If you have the passion, by all means pursue "nontraditional routes" to med school.
Nothing wrong with Irvine as a school, and if you like Asians, that's certainly your place. But it's a huge commuter school (read: dead on weekends) and the college town atmosphere is practically nonexistent. I mean, it's in the suburbs. Unless you reallllly enjoy the Spectrum and...Wild Rivers...
Someone mentioned getting letters of rec from upper divison profs...well yes, that's definitely better if you can manage it. The problem is that med applicants need to apply third year, which is generally when you start taking upper division courses. So it can be a bit hectic since you don't have a whole lot of classes to choose from. I definitely agree that the smaller class size is great for a letter of rec.
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Radar are you a medical student? Just curious.
Also, I wasn't aware that engineering majors are screened more thoroughly than other majors. Anyone care to elaborate?
Ah and regarding Irvine - I never really found the drive to downtown LA to be that far. I guess I've been driving too far and too often to realize it might be a bit of a hassle for normal people.
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my suggestion is pick the UC.. because if it's your plan to attend any kind of gradschool, especially medical school, you should plan on spending your money strategically. If you go to a private school your tuition and room&board will be so ridiculous. But hey if you have money to burn go to Johns Hopkins.
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i'd also suggest UC to you because there would be a much more diverse student body there for you to interact with, and also the climate in California is probably much more reasonable for you than Maryland lol. Have you ever been to Maryland? If you've never lived on the East Coast i'd at least tell you to think about climate and weather as a factor. I say this as someone who used to live in Maryland and now lives in California.
When I was in your place deciding a school, I had lived on both coasts so I knew what to expect, and I chose a school on the west coast lol.
/but maybe its just my bias like mnm ;;
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fig_newbie: I'm not a med student...I'm a 4th year undergrad, applying this year. I've learned a lot about the process by seeing others go through it  I think I'm a little biased against Irvine because I live near there, but it's a great school for sure and it's true that LA is just a hop down the freeway. Are you going there soon?
And starofNC, the original poster already told us that Hopkins will only cost him 20K, so he has some sort of scholarship/financial aid. If he didn't have that, and money was tight, I would agree that a UC would be a great choice.
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Radar - Thats awesome! I'm going through this ridiculous medical school application process right now, and I'm still in limbo as to where I'll be going this fall. Sadly, only UCLA has given me the interviews and I'm still not sure if they'll accept me. Hopefully I'll find out soon, for better or worse, because the waiting is driving me insane.
Also, did anyone notice the banner at the top of the page? St. George University....one of the Caribbean med schools.
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Thanks for all the comments.
Im more interested in, however, the environment, social gatherings, and how the school's going to help me, rather than the money i have to pay. For instance, I wanna know more about the fact that JHU is a depressing place? But 90+ % acceptance rate to med school? The last fact seems to go against the whole notion of the importance of GPA if 90% who probably gets lower GPA due to the difficulty of JHU courses get accepted? maybe crazy MCAT?
The amount of money I have to pay is about the same for Berkeley and Johns Hopkins. Both are around 20K because I got about 20+k grant from JHU since my parent's contribution was determined to be around 20 K by FAFSA.
And thedeadhaji, I would love to talk to you and ur friends who attend JHU BME, the same major as the one I'm considering! But how?
Contact me:
AIM: w0rkhardp1ayhard
MSN: yaomingsminimi@yahoo.com
And for that one person who wanted to know my academic profile:
SAT: 2330 (mixed) 2240 (composite)
GPA: 4.78 (#1)
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Frankly, I chose BME because I heard it was the best course JHU offered 0.o; But since Im considering medical school, should I change my major if I do attend JHU? It seems like a lot of extra work that will take my time away from preparation for med? although Im not yet sure about bio major and focusing on engineering will maybe show me a wider depth of what I want to do with my life? though so many people I know say majoring in engineering in college isnt what u expect but all theory and waste of time??
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IMO if your good enough to get accepted into Johns Hopkins undergrad than you can probably get good enough grades to get into med school from any good undergrad.
Johns Hopkins is still THE medical school though, which is also important.
I'd personally do Johns Hopkins in your situation, it's a good school all around and you can always transfer if you want to.
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If you check the link I sent (its an excerpt from student magazine at JHU itself) it gives the statistics of the accepted medical students. The accepted undergrads/alumni average GPAs and MCATS hover around the national average for accepted medical students (~3.6 GPA, 31 MCAT). 90% of students at JHU have those average statistics.
I'm actually a bit curious to know how a department can average a 3.6 GPA . Thats incredibly high. I'm not saying JHU inflates its grades - the thread speaks volumes of the interstudent competition - but when it comes down to it, it does seem like people succeed at that school. But do they have fun doing it?
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u think maybe transferring from jhu to jhu med is ezier than from else where? maybe any advantage? maybe as undergrad, i could take advantage of jhu clinic taht's at a humongous scale by volunteering in it. Or at least i'll get to know the whole hospital/ med school scene while i'm there?
I am concerned about the whole weather/ social scene there and whether i'll have better time in UCB too, but maybe i'll have to make some trade offs then... If jhu is indeed better and worth the sacrifice
Who knows maybe there are hot girls in jhu, which wil brighten my stay there!
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Don't pussy out and go to Berkeley which is clearly not as good as Duke & JHU.
Between JHU and Duke, it's your call, but from what I hear Duke >>> JHU in terms of social life.
With that said, it would be cool to have you at Duke with me! But I realize JHU is better for your major (which i guess should be your biggest concern) :/
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EPT
