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On September 19 2012 05:08 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 05:01 AnomalySC2 wrote:On September 19 2012 00:52 Probe1 wrote:
Why in gods name would you admit that you're a terrible game designer when the public believes its not your fault?! Name a better rts than Starcraft 1/2. None. Now name a better action rpg out there than d2/3. Please don't say Torchlight. Now name the MMO that has constantly remained the benchmark for all others the past 8 years or so. Seriously Blizzard deserve all the shit they've been getting as of late. Are you serious? There have been numerous RTS titles that are better/equal to SC2. D3 is an utter failure, there are no two ways around it. And WoW was successful for many reasons outside of it's gameplay and atm GW2 seems to be outdoing it in terms of quality. Each of Blizzard's recent releases has been a severe downgrade on it's respective series. When Blizzard is incapable of making sequals that actually IMPROVE on the games, then yes, they deserve all the shit they've been getting as of late.
The only RTS I can think that is actually better than SC2 in terms of raw quality, presentation, etc, is CoH, and we all know what an exeptional game that is. Personal preference is a different thing.
As for D3, there's no such thing as utter failure when millions of people play your game. People who argue this mostly are D2 widows who wanted D2 again. The truth is regardless of how much shit it gets the game is fun and does OK in its genre. Torchlight is as serious a competitor to D3 as SWTOR was to WoW, and we all know how that went. Plus WoW is OLD as fuck, it's about time a worthy competitor arrived, GW2 is cool.
Basically, they're not doing THAT bad, the problem with Blizz is it's ran out of games to try their art on, as in, there's no more genres they like that they can improve and polish upon, that's what Blizz does, they have NEVER been known for their creativity and flair.
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On September 19 2012 05:18 jidolboy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 05:15 AnomalySC2 wrote:On September 19 2012 05:11 SupLilSon wrote:On September 19 2012 05:07 AnomalySC2 wrote:On September 19 2012 05:05 Serpico wrote:On September 19 2012 05:01 AnomalySC2 wrote:On September 19 2012 00:52 Probe1 wrote:
Why in gods name would you admit that you're a terrible game designer when the public believes its not your fault?! Name a better rts than Starcraft 1/2. None. Now name a better action rpg out there than d2/3. Please don't say Torchlight. Now name the MMO that has constantly remained the benchmark for all others the past 8 years or so. Seriously Blizzard deserve all the shit they've been getting as of late. total annihilation is easily better than SC 2 and so are the early DOW games. Diablo 3?? Path of Exile and Torchlight 2, you can't just say we can't say something simply because your narrow opinion is so strong you don't want to hear it. That's cool, but i don't see any shows dedicated to professional total annihilation or DOW games. It's a fact that those aren't nearly as good as Starcraft, sorry. It takes much more than a good game to create a successful competitive scene. SC2's competitive scene is largely riding off of the BW / WC3 scenes which has nothing to do with Blizzard or the quality of SC2. TA and early DOW were much better than SC2. And yet, would the competitive scene really be as huge as it is for sc2 if the game was so bad? Come on now.... "ehem" League of Legend.
That is a good point, I'll give you that xD.
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On September 19 2012 01:49 paralleluniverse wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 01:43 IntoTheEmo wrote:
It's also in the timing, WotLK came out shortly after the merger, which was when all the WoW complaints started.
Either way, their actions speak for themselves, they aren't the same company anymore regardless. From WoW alone: the scrapping of the promised water instance for a rushed end game Dragon Soul, the reworking of talents to be similar to D3, how they managed to break the default UI in 5.0, how we got 2 crappily redone troll instances as 4.1 content for months... I realize people make mistakes, but the number of questionable decisions they've made that make you want to go "honestly, why do that for?" is staggering over the recent years.
I mean, did we really need Farmville/Pokemon in WoW? Did we need a BNet GUI on SC2 that looks like it was designed for console? Do we really need chat chan- oh wait.
Not to mention that they managed to disrespect their own game in that OSL broadcast. That was disgusting.
I could go on forever complaining, but yeah, there'll always be people who'll defend Blizzard. I've always joked about how Blizzard would still break sales records if they sold an empty game box. I feel that they're abusing their brand name to its maximum right now, releasing games as if they were still in beta - MoP won't be released with cross realm zones (?), SC2 was released without chat channels, D3 was released without PvP. Yeah their games in the past were missing a few features/had bugs/were imbalanced, but you don't really feel that they've blatantly allowed that to happen. That's what's annoying about them right now. That's why we're so quick to blame it on Activision.
Ah well, back to WC3. With my nostalgia glasses on, clearly. This is the kind of scapegoating and selective memory I'm talking about. The complaints started in WotLK? Really? Did you ever play WoW in Classic and TBC? Remember raid or die, world of roguecraft, welfare epics from arenas, complaints that the game was too hard, waiting for months as Blizzard "balanced" classes at the rate of 1-2 per patch, honor system being nothing but a mindless and skill-less grind, AP-PoM-Pyro, dying in 1 global, etc? Blizzard has made a lot of stupid and moronic decisions before Activision and a lot of stupid and moronic decisions after Activision. Stop using Activision as a scapegoat and put the blame where it belongs -- Blizzard.
I think it's been obvious that Blizzard is in charge to any one paying attention, I also don't see this massive decline in quality that everyone else seems to be experiencing. For me, some of the games have shifted focus (WoW, Diablo, and even SC have all done this) where it doesn't always work as well for me as the original. SC2 has been a hit for me, Diablo 3 was fun but didn't provide nearly as much as a time sink for me while WoW passed me by back after Burning Crusade dumbed down raiding to mostly eliminate 40 man groups (yeah I know they were hard, but fuck if I want some idiot with arena points to be getting gear equal to a boss I encountered halfway through the final 25 BT encounter).
At any rate, it is Blizzard and I think they do a good job of evolving their games which is why I'll be buying the D3 expo, HOTS and whatever their new MMO is (when it comes out in 2 years). Some of the games, like MoP, don't interest me any more but.... they can't all be winners and I just have far less time than I used to when I first started games.
To me Blizzard still is one of the leaders in the industry, and listens to and addresses most of gamer's complaints... even if we don't always like the response. I don't know how many other developers I could say that about.
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I'm not going to bash Blizzard with how SC2 turned out gameplay wise compared to BW. I mean, there are some units/mechanics that I strongly question but even then, I think BW was a bit of a miracle in terms of gameplay. I really don't see it ever being matched unless SC2 is drastically overhauled (get rid of deathballs for all of the races, introduce units that reward good micro/control, etc) and even then it could be hit or miss.
For me, the biggest problem is Blizzard's approach to Battle.Net. They took a complete step backwards with it and then fumbled around for the past two years trying to bring it up to an acceptable state (failing to do so). I could have appreciated the game a lot more if they had taken what worked from BW/WC3 and built on it. This just seems like something a good developer would have gotten correct right off the bat (see Dota 2) as this is purely functional development (as opposed to trying to make the game 'fun').
The current league system is utterly stupid (ladder should be based on a transparent ELO/ICCUP-style system).
The custom game system has left me rarely playing customs.
There is no sense of community when I play.
Why the hell can't I see how many games I've lost? Or which matchup/map I need to work on?
Tournaments?
The quote's pretty funny though.
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On September 19 2012 05:19 mordk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 05:08 SupLilSon wrote:On September 19 2012 05:01 AnomalySC2 wrote:On September 19 2012 00:52 Probe1 wrote:
Why in gods name would you admit that you're a terrible game designer when the public believes its not your fault?! Name a better rts than Starcraft 1/2. None. Now name a better action rpg out there than d2/3. Please don't say Torchlight. Now name the MMO that has constantly remained the benchmark for all others the past 8 years or so. Seriously Blizzard deserve all the shit they've been getting as of late. Are you serious? There have been numerous RTS titles that are better/equal to SC2. D3 is an utter failure, there are no two ways around it. And WoW was successful for many reasons outside of it's gameplay and atm GW2 seems to be outdoing it in terms of quality. Each of Blizzard's recent releases has been a severe downgrade on it's respective series. When Blizzard is incapable of making sequals that actually IMPROVE on the games, then yes, they deserve all the shit they've been getting as of late. The only RTS I can think that is actually better than SC2 in terms of raw quality, presentation, etc, is CoH, and we all know what an exeptional game that is. Personal preference is a different thing. As for D3, there's no such thing as utter failure when millions of people play your game. People who argue this mostly are D2 widows who wanted D2 again. The truth is regardless of how much shit it gets the game is fun and does OK in its genre. Torchlight is as serious a competitor to D3 as SWTOR was to WoW, and we all know how that went. Plus WoW is OLD as fuck, it's about time a worthy competitor arrived, GW2 is cool. Basically, they're not doing THAT bad, the problem with Blizz is it's ran out of games to try their art on, as in, there's no more genres they like that they can improve and polish upon, that's what Blizz does, they have NEVER been known for their creativity and flair.
I definitely agree with you except for the point "they have NEVER been known for their creativity and flair." That just isn't true, because what they do do is innovate within a genre in terms of integrated systems and executions just because Porsche didn't invent the wheel doesn't make their cars not "creative" or possessive of "flair".
WoW, and Starcraft blew me away even though I'd tried similar games in the genre, meanwhile Diablo has been a genre that Blizzard really created all on their own and which they are trying to turn into something new with D3 (whether they will succeed or not is something else).
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On September 19 2012 05:08 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 05:01 AnomalySC2 wrote:On September 19 2012 00:52 Probe1 wrote:
Why in gods name would you admit that you're a terrible game designer when the public believes its not your fault?! Name a better rts than Starcraft 1/2. None. Now name a better action rpg out there than d2/3. Please don't say Torchlight. Now name the MMO that has constantly remained the benchmark for all others the past 8 years or so. Seriously Blizzard deserve all the shit they've been getting as of late. D3 is an utter failure, there are no two ways around it.
I...what? It sold 6.3 million copies in the first week. Stop with this ridiculous hyperbole, please.
http://www.kitguru.net/software/gaming/harrison/diablo-3-sales-pass-the-6-3-million-mark-gamers-still-unhappy/
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On September 19 2012 05:01 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 00:52 Probe1 wrote:
Why in gods name would you admit that you're a terrible game designer when the public believes its not your fault?! Name a better rts than Starcraft 1/2. None. Now name a better action rpg out there than d2/3. Please don't say Torchlight. Now name the MMO that has constantly remained the benchmark for all others the past 8 years or so. Seriously Blizzard deserve all the shit they've been getting as of late.
The fact that you need pair starcraft 2 with brood war and diablo 3 with diablo 2 shows how poor your argument is.
The people that made starcraft 1 and diablo 2 are for the most part gone. To bundle these games with their respective sequels and ask "whats better than this?" is completely unfair and yes I can list better RTS games than SC2 and I can name better action rpgs than diablo 3.
On September 19 2012 05:35 Monkeyballs25 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 05:08 SupLilSon wrote:On September 19 2012 05:01 AnomalySC2 wrote:On September 19 2012 00:52 Probe1 wrote:
Why in gods name would you admit that you're a terrible game designer when the public believes its not your fault?! Name a better rts than Starcraft 1/2. None. Now name a better action rpg out there than d2/3. Please don't say Torchlight. Now name the MMO that has constantly remained the benchmark for all others the past 8 years or so. Seriously Blizzard deserve all the shit they've been getting as of late. D3 is an utter failure, there are no two ways around it. I...what? It sold 6.3 million copies in the first week. Stop with this ridiculous hyperbole, please. http://www.kitguru.net/software/gaming/harrison/diablo-3-sales-pass-the-6-3-million-mark-gamers-still-unhappy/
How much money something makes is not a direct indicator of how good the product actually is. Diablo 3 made a lot of money yes. It also made all of that money before word got out about what the game was actually like.
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On September 19 2012 05:35 Monkeyballs25 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 05:08 SupLilSon wrote:On September 19 2012 05:01 AnomalySC2 wrote:On September 19 2012 00:52 Probe1 wrote:
Why in gods name would you admit that you're a terrible game designer when the public believes its not your fault?! Name a better rts than Starcraft 1/2. None. Now name a better action rpg out there than d2/3. Please don't say Torchlight. Now name the MMO that has constantly remained the benchmark for all others the past 8 years or so. Seriously Blizzard deserve all the shit they've been getting as of late. D3 is an utter failure, there are no two ways around it. I...what? It sold 6.3 million copies in the first week. Stop with this ridiculous hyperbole, please. http://www.kitguru.net/software/gaming/harrison/diablo-3-sales-pass-the-6-3-million-mark-gamers-still-unhappy/
How is that relevant? The game was released in an unfinished state and it was painfuly obvious. The game was released with massive flaws and it was painfuly obvious. There is still no PvP for crying out loud..
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this thread is funny lol
also, sold copies =/= good game
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On September 19 2012 05:11 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 05:07 AnomalySC2 wrote:On September 19 2012 05:05 Serpico wrote:On September 19 2012 05:01 AnomalySC2 wrote:On September 19 2012 00:52 Probe1 wrote:
Why in gods name would you admit that you're a terrible game designer when the public believes its not your fault?! Name a better rts than Starcraft 1/2. None. Now name a better action rpg out there than d2/3. Please don't say Torchlight. Now name the MMO that has constantly remained the benchmark for all others the past 8 years or so. Seriously Blizzard deserve all the shit they've been getting as of late. total annihilation is easily better than SC 2 and so are the early DOW games. Diablo 3?? Path of Exile and Torchlight 2, you can't just say we can't say something simply because your narrow opinion is so strong you don't want to hear it. That's cool, but i don't see any shows dedicated to professional total annihilation or DOW games. It's a fact that those aren't nearly as good as Starcraft, sorry. It takes much more than a good game to create a successful competitive scene. SC2's competitive scene is largely riding off of the BW / WC3 scenes which has nothing to do with Blizzard or the quality of SC2. TA and early DOW were much better than SC2.
TA seems like it'd have too much automation to make a good competitive RTS. DOW might have done, but it seems too similar to WC3 to compete with SC2. SC 1 and 2 were brilliant because they were basically "what if we remade C&C RA with a 3rd faction, and they were all actually balanced".
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On September 19 2012 05:35 Monkeyballs25 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 05:08 SupLilSon wrote:On September 19 2012 05:01 AnomalySC2 wrote:On September 19 2012 00:52 Probe1 wrote:
Why in gods name would you admit that you're a terrible game designer when the public believes its not your fault?! Name a better rts than Starcraft 1/2. None. Now name a better action rpg out there than d2/3. Please don't say Torchlight. Now name the MMO that has constantly remained the benchmark for all others the past 8 years or so. Seriously Blizzard deserve all the shit they've been getting as of late. D3 is an utter failure, there are no two ways around it. I...what? It sold 6.3 million copies in the first week. Stop with this ridiculous hyperbole, please. http://www.kitguru.net/software/gaming/harrison/diablo-3-sales-pass-the-6-3-million-mark-gamers-still-unhappy/
I...what? That has nothing to do with the quality of the product. Stop with this irrelevant statement, please.
www.yougotpwned.com
On September 19 2012 05:43 stormssc wrote:
this thread is funny lol
also, sold copies =/= good game
^^this
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On September 19 2012 05:37 omnic wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 05:01 AnomalySC2 wrote:On September 19 2012 00:52 Probe1 wrote:
Why in gods name would you admit that you're a terrible game designer when the public believes its not your fault?! Name a better rts than Starcraft 1/2. None. Now name a better action rpg out there than d2/3. Please don't say Torchlight. Now name the MMO that has constantly remained the benchmark for all others the past 8 years or so. Seriously Blizzard deserve all the shit they've been getting as of late. The fact that you need pair starcraft 2 with brood war and diablo 3 with diablo 2 shows how poor your argument is. The people that made starcraft 1 and diablo 2 are for the most part gone. To bundle these games with their respective sequels and ask "whats better than this?" is completely unfair and yes I can list better RTS games than SC2 and I can name better action rpgs than diablo 3. Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 05:35 Monkeyballs25 wrote:On September 19 2012 05:08 SupLilSon wrote:On September 19 2012 05:01 AnomalySC2 wrote:On September 19 2012 00:52 Probe1 wrote:
Why in gods name would you admit that you're a terrible game designer when the public believes its not your fault?! Name a better rts than Starcraft 1/2. None. Now name a better action rpg out there than d2/3. Please don't say Torchlight. Now name the MMO that has constantly remained the benchmark for all others the past 8 years or so. Seriously Blizzard deserve all the shit they've been getting as of late. D3 is an utter failure, there are no two ways around it. I...what? It sold 6.3 million copies in the first week. Stop with this ridiculous hyperbole, please. http://www.kitguru.net/software/gaming/harrison/diablo-3-sales-pass-the-6-3-million-mark-gamers-still-unhappy/ How much money something makes is not a direct indicator of how good the product actually is. Diablo 3 made a lot of money yes. It also made all of that money before word got out about what the game was actually like.
I'm sure it was somewhat disappointing, but utter failure? You'd need something like the TORtanic to merit that description.
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What if Activision is REALLY ordering Blizzard what to do, and that article was actually one of Activision's orders?
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On September 19 2012 05:55 Monkeyballs25 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 05:37 omnic wrote:On September 19 2012 05:01 AnomalySC2 wrote:On September 19 2012 00:52 Probe1 wrote:
Why in gods name would you admit that you're a terrible game designer when the public believes its not your fault?! Name a better rts than Starcraft 1/2. None. Now name a better action rpg out there than d2/3. Please don't say Torchlight. Now name the MMO that has constantly remained the benchmark for all others the past 8 years or so. Seriously Blizzard deserve all the shit they've been getting as of late. The fact that you need pair starcraft 2 with brood war and diablo 3 with diablo 2 shows how poor your argument is. The people that made starcraft 1 and diablo 2 are for the most part gone. To bundle these games with their respective sequels and ask "whats better than this?" is completely unfair and yes I can list better RTS games than SC2 and I can name better action rpgs than diablo 3. On September 19 2012 05:35 Monkeyballs25 wrote:On September 19 2012 05:08 SupLilSon wrote:On September 19 2012 05:01 AnomalySC2 wrote:On September 19 2012 00:52 Probe1 wrote:
Why in gods name would you admit that you're a terrible game designer when the public believes its not your fault?! Name a better rts than Starcraft 1/2. None. Now name a better action rpg out there than d2/3. Please don't say Torchlight. Now name the MMO that has constantly remained the benchmark for all others the past 8 years or so. Seriously Blizzard deserve all the shit they've been getting as of late. D3 is an utter failure, there are no two ways around it. I...what? It sold 6.3 million copies in the first week. Stop with this ridiculous hyperbole, please. http://www.kitguru.net/software/gaming/harrison/diablo-3-sales-pass-the-6-3-million-mark-gamers-still-unhappy/ How much money something makes is not a direct indicator of how good the product actually is. Diablo 3 made a lot of money yes. It also made all of that money before word got out about what the game was actually like. I'm sure it was somewhat disappointing, but utter failure? You'd need something like the TORtanic to merit that description.
I would say that diablo 3 was a utter failure. Maybe not as bad as TORtanic but then again you don't get to decide what utter failure means for the rest of us.
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Btw, I think wow vanilla is the best wow that ever was, when they introduced honor the game went to shit, and Blizzard went downhill from there.
All you guys claiming TBC was the best expansion, you are the ones responsible for Blizzards downfall, you supported their mediocrity to its fullest, and do so till today even tho you complain.
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Still hate activision. Starting to dislike blizzard (sometime after D3 and crap job on SC2 design/balance) . My hope is in the indies/open sourcers.
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I can't think of any good reason for releasing this.
You really think that only one guy or one shadowy room of executives is responsible for every fuck-up? Really?
No, I never believed one guy or one shadowy room of executives (nice hyperbole) was responsible for every fuck-up. I believed they were responsible for several, big, fuck-ups though.
Whatever Activision probably mandated they release this statement and others like it.
AND IF THEY DIDN'T that's even worse. It just means Blizzard is actually bringing it's parent company down by releasing garbage products. I know I haven't touched anything Activision related in years because of things that were supposedly Blizzard's fault all along?
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On September 19 2012 05:59 omnic wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 05:55 Monkeyballs25 wrote:On September 19 2012 05:37 omnic wrote:On September 19 2012 05:01 AnomalySC2 wrote:On September 19 2012 00:52 Probe1 wrote:
Why in gods name would you admit that you're a terrible game designer when the public believes its not your fault?! Name a better rts than Starcraft 1/2. None. Now name a better action rpg out there than d2/3. Please don't say Torchlight. Now name the MMO that has constantly remained the benchmark for all others the past 8 years or so. Seriously Blizzard deserve all the shit they've been getting as of late. The fact that you need pair starcraft 2 with brood war and diablo 3 with diablo 2 shows how poor your argument is. The people that made starcraft 1 and diablo 2 are for the most part gone. To bundle these games with their respective sequels and ask "whats better than this?" is completely unfair and yes I can list better RTS games than SC2 and I can name better action rpgs than diablo 3. On September 19 2012 05:35 Monkeyballs25 wrote:On September 19 2012 05:08 SupLilSon wrote:On September 19 2012 05:01 AnomalySC2 wrote:On September 19 2012 00:52 Probe1 wrote:
Why in gods name would you admit that you're a terrible game designer when the public believes its not your fault?! Name a better rts than Starcraft 1/2. None. Now name a better action rpg out there than d2/3. Please don't say Torchlight. Now name the MMO that has constantly remained the benchmark for all others the past 8 years or so. Seriously Blizzard deserve all the shit they've been getting as of late. D3 is an utter failure, there are no two ways around it. I...what? It sold 6.3 million copies in the first week. Stop with this ridiculous hyperbole, please. http://www.kitguru.net/software/gaming/harrison/diablo-3-sales-pass-the-6-3-million-mark-gamers-still-unhappy/ How much money something makes is not a direct indicator of how good the product actually is. Diablo 3 made a lot of money yes. It also made all of that money before word got out about what the game was actually like. I'm sure it was somewhat disappointing, but utter failure? You'd need something like the TORtanic to merit that description. I would say that diablo 3 was a utter failure. Maybe not as bad as TORtanic but then again you don't get to decide what utter failure means for the rest of us.
I suppose, I can't account for personal expectations of what the game would be like. I was looking at it more from a business viewpoint. The trouble is its more difficult to tell how many people are playing globally D3 globally compared to SC2 and WoW, and how much their still taking in from new game sales and RMAH activity.
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I was going to say that this is actually what people don't want to hear. Now that Blizzard says Activision can't be blamed, then the only conclusion you can draw from recently released games is that Blizzard is losing its touch.
On September 19 2012 00:32 -Kaiser- wrote:
Lol, poor Blizzard. There goes their only excuse for garbage content.
Pretty much sums up my thoughts.
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On September 19 2012 05:35 Monkeyballs25 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 05:08 SupLilSon wrote:On September 19 2012 05:01 AnomalySC2 wrote:On September 19 2012 00:52 Probe1 wrote:
Why in gods name would you admit that you're a terrible game designer when the public believes its not your fault?! Name a better rts than Starcraft 1/2. None. Now name a better action rpg out there than d2/3. Please don't say Torchlight. Now name the MMO that has constantly remained the benchmark for all others the past 8 years or so. Seriously Blizzard deserve all the shit they've been getting as of late. D3 is an utter failure, there are no two ways around it. I...what? It sold 6.3 million copies in the first week. Stop with this ridiculous hyperbole, please. http://www.kitguru.net/software/gaming/harrison/diablo-3-sales-pass-the-6-3-million-mark-gamers-still-unhappy/
it sold that many because everyone had waited 10 years to get it. But to bad no one could play the game the first week either. It was the same way with the newest Duke Nukem title. Everyone had hyped it up so much that everyone bought it. Then played it and realized it was shit.
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EPT
