On September 07 2012 14:47 J_Slim wrote: My choice is what I choose to do And if I'm causin no harm, it shouldn't bother you Your choice is who you choose to be And if you're causin no harm, then you're alright with me
Strictly looking at physical effects on the body while being high (and not behavioural resolving around obsession around weed to so speak): What if I get high, decide to drive my car somewhere and run over a 7 year old kid? I know, yes, alcohol is legal, but is it not bad to allow additional potentially fatal substances? Besides, weed is much more potent and acts directly compared to alcohol (which usually tries to make you throw up first).
It's NOT a harmless!
If you smoke weed and drive your car you're an idiot who deserves to be punished. Same with drinking and driving
i enjoy driving high, especially on long drives that are 1+ hours.
i've had 3 close calls while i'm high, which none of it were my fault and i was able to avoid an accident due to my reaction. to say weed can cause accident isn't 100% accurate i think, it still largely depends on the driver. i think i can safely say i'm a better driver than the average drivers (i do track days, autox, and often enjoy driving on mountain roads) and i'm very aware of my limits. there are times where i'm too high to drive and i dont drive, i cool off before i do but a small toke to help me enjoy my music makes the overall long drive more enjoyable. its really about responsibility and not being stupid.
txt'ing and driving is multiple times more dangerous.
buddy, you gotta stop man
being high hinders your reaction time by a huge amount. yeha you may examine things at faster rate but all of your blood flows is going to centered around your brain. there won't be ample left for the rest of the body. and the nerves would fail you at close encounters.
Theres several researches that tried proving weed hampers your driving skills and reaction times, most of them only proved that compared to people who drink alcohol, and to people who dont use any substance at all, weed has less car accidents.
The reason is that while high, you feel you are going fucking fast at like 40 MPH, instead of doing stupid stuff because your senses have been "hampered", the weed high sort of naturally adjusts your motor skills to your new sense of perception and reaction, causing a lot less accidents, because the user is driving more safely, even tho he is high.
Of course this is an average, done on a lot of people, I myself have been involved in a car accident while high, but I believe it was 100% my fault and not weeds, fault, I have ADHD and it makes me more than twice as likely to be involved in accidents by lack of proper reaction time.
On September 08 2012 03:53 PanN wrote:
On September 08 2012 03:49 D10 wrote: Driving while high is imprudent, but i agree that it doesnt negatively impact performance, but it might make you more propense to make some mistakes you would make anyways, so watch out!
Doesn't make any sense but sure man. Also, just curious. Would you rather drive on a highway to work every single day that contains 100% sober people, or 100% people really high on weed?
I would much rather drive in one where 100% of the people are high on weed, would make them much more calm, and people wouldnt feel like they are in a rush to get where they want to be, making traffic smoother and safer.
Then I deem you insane. I'd give you an official certificate or something, but I'm not good at photoshop.
What qualification do you have to make that assessment ?
See this is exacly the problem, yall act like you know better for no reason other than "im not druging myself" when dont even know enough to know what that really means
Get off your serious horse, its just a joke obviously.
I'm not really sure what your 2nd statement means, but I'll go ahead and say this. I love marijuana. I also like having as clear of a mind as possible while operating a vehicle that can kill people, I think thats being pretty responsible. I'd feel horrible for the rest of my life if I hurt someone while driving high, the question of "what if I wasn't high while driving that day" would eat at me for the rest of my life.
I don't think weed helps me drive better, you may think it helps you drive better and if it does for you thats great. I still think its irresponsible.
Well I have had hundreds of hours of driving high practice to learn all i need to know about my high shortcommings to feel confident driving, but aside from that I do agree its irresponsible, and recently I have only smoked driving in two ocasions.
But still, ill avoid driving high whenver I can, unless im stuck in traffic, then I love to have a roach with me.
Can't overdose on pot 0 deaths per year related to weed abuse - more than 10 related to a colapsing coke distributor in america Vaporizers highly reducing negative effet of the tobacco and paper burning smoke easier for therapeutical users been smoking weed on and off for 8 years now still not addicted to it
Legalizing means taking control over production and distribuition which will mostly result in better quality weed and by the same mean reduce flagrantly black's market part of the benefits because who gonna buy his dime to "blacko" in a backstreet when you can get it a the nearest store.
having this as a public service and regulation would lower the prices and higher the quality with education and legislation on proper use(just like alchools - licenses in cafés/bar - forbidden while driving)
I was in CALI at the time they voted most people who told me they would vote no were Conservative and Drug dealers
MOST IMPORTANT OF ALL - having a socially acceptable weed - meaning that we stop feeding those mexican cartels who kill thousand of people each year down south the border just to get them cocaine but mostly marijuana. all this by establishing a state production opening a new interior market/jobs with an already existing demand that can create alot of revenues and taxes for the state to invest into medical care for example.
Of course your iq drops from smoking weed,it realy does not make one smarter. Though we have such a huge surplus in brain capacity that this should not realy have a major impact on most people. People who are extremely intelligent and who have a verry high level of consiousness will notice it though. Everytime you smoke weed your level of consiousness drops a tiny bit to never return.
On September 08 2012 06:29 Rassy wrote: is coke realy 200-400/gram in china?
Of course your iq drops from smoking weed,it realy does not make one smarter. Though we have such a huge surplus in brain capacity that this should not realy have a major impact on most people. People who are extremely intelligent and who have a verry high level of consiousness will notice it though. Everytime you smoke weed your level of consiousness drops a tiny bit to never return.
China being china, i don't think they want to share any information about drugs in their own country. World Drug Report 2012 states a street price of 106$ in Hong Kong. Doesn't say much anyway. Is it pure, is it crap? It states 86$ for Germany and where i live it's 35E for crap and 75E for the good stuff. But, the price you mentionend wouldn't astound me. The higher the risk involved, the higher the cost. Harsher laws, prices go up. That's also why there is any money in the weed business. Without risk it's dirt, water and light. Which didn't cost much last time i checked.
To the driving on weed stuff. Of course this shouldn't be allowed. The problem is, weed is the drug which can be traced the longest. Speed, LSD, coke etc are out of your system quite quickly. Depends on the way you check for it of course. Degradation products of weed can be traced for half a year or so in your hair. So if you want to take drugs and keep your driving license, go for the hard stuff. (STUPID!) I never felt comfortable driving high and i don't do it anymore. Got a friend though wo smoked a couple of bongs before each driving lesson and stilll smokes everyday. Never had an accident driving everyday for 14 years. Got another friend, who is a 50+ year old carpenter who is on the road a lot and only smokes weed all day everyday since decades. Literally from breakfast till he goes to sleep. Never had an accident either. He is also a really successful business man. What does this proof? Nothing.
I know a lot of people like this. To me personally smoking weed everyday doesn't work so good. So i just don't do it.
On September 07 2012 17:47 Intr3pid wrote: Why is there no poll for this question in the OP? Would love to know what the majority of TLers think on this subject.
Because it´s hard so answer this question with a simple "Yes" or "No"
Edit: Totally free weed consume can digress into tons of addictions and deaths ( Not directly but I guess the following consequences won´t be funny). As long as there is no limitation or restriction I see no future for legalizing weed.
Post from yesterday, i'd still like to adress it, because i facepalmed so hard. Bring some evidence dude! Without, it's unbelievably stupid propaganda. According to your opinion the Netherlands must have gone down the drain decades ago. Guess what? They're doing just fine.
I do believe that weed addiction is a real thing. Although you don't have the same withdrawals as an alcoholic or someone detoxing from pills, there are mental withdrawals. I have friends who smoke pot everyday and they can hardly remember what they did the previous day. It's almost as if getting high has become a daily routine rather than something recreational. However, I think this depends mostly on the type of person rather than weed itself.
Like most things weed should be done in moderation, I myself do it 1-2 times a month when I have a light schedule.
But of course weed should be legalized, it has medical benefits and economical benefits. I don't understand why the government would want money going into the hands of drug cartels when they can tax the substance and put a little money into their own pockets. It has been proven that weed is a less harmful substance, at least physically, than alcohol and cigarettes.
Canabis addiction definatly is a real thing, and yes it is kinda funny to see how misinformed some people are. The effects of canabis are still greatly underestimated by the majority.
Slowly more and more research is beeing done (from wich alot in the netherlands) and the more research is done, the more dangerous canabis apears to be. The number of people looking for professional help with their canabis adiction has been rising fast over the past years in the netherlands,as the dangers of,and adiction canabis becomes more well known. In 2010 there where 10.000 people getting professional threatment for their canabis adiction according to jelinek institute (one of the manny institues in the netherlands wich deals with adiction), this on an estimated totall of 400k frequent users (this last estimate is way to low btw) It is estimated that 10% of current users (in the netherlands) is adicted to canabis, this is a higher pecentage for example then the percentage of alcohol users beeing adicted to alcohol (wish is estimated at ~ 8%) I can link alot of sites with scientific research to proove this and manny more of the dangerous effects of canabis but unfortunatly it all is in dutch, so not verry usefull here.
for dutch users who like to know more and want to use less:
What I think is most interesting and disturbing/frightening is the real reason why weed is illegal. After watching the documentary, a few videos, and reading a lot of the conversation on here the conclusion I see is that there is a lot of money in keeping weed illegal.
What I mean by that is specifically the amount of money that is put into the "war on drugs" most of the money that is poured into that "industry" is to go after weed. One quote from the documentary was that 5 million dollars go into drug enforcement in Canada and 4 million of that is specifically for weed. The other 1 million is for the hard drugs. I can only imagine how much more money is spent in the United States. And who do you think pays for this drug enforcement? Of course us the tax payers. So to the guy who talks about the expense weed would have on other people if it was made legal (health care burden), we are already paying the big expense, the witch hunt of marijuana enforcement.
The other main reason why weed is illegal is because of the pharmaceutical companies. In fact weed would probably be legal today if pharmaceutical companies were able to put a patent on weed, but they can't because it is most effective in its natural plant form. Quite frankly I am disgusted by our pharmaceutical companies because they aren't about saving lives but making money. All the pills and shit that America runs on has so many adverse side effects and these pills have caused more deaths than marijuana ever has or will. So the legalization of weed would hurt the wallets of all the big pharmaceutical companies. People wouldn't be so reliant on all those pills.
There was also a post earlier about how the middle class has the most control of policies. And while I would like that to be true I would argue that the filthy rich lobbyist and special interest groups in Washington have more control over policy. No matter how much we pride ourselves to be a great democracy it is very evident that the more money you have the louder your voice is.
So this is what really sickens me. The fact that marijuana is still illegal today not because the politicians don't realize how truly harmless marijuana is, especially compared to alcohol, cigarettes, prescription pills, and fast food, (politicians can't be that dumb) but it is because their pockets are being lined by the special interest lobbyists. It is because the prohibition of marijuana is a business in itself.
On September 08 2012 14:34 ChiknAdobo wrote: What I think is most interesting and disturbing/frightening is the real reason why weed is illegal. After watching the documentary, a few videos, and reading a lot of the conversation on here the conclusion I see is that there is a lot of money in keeping weed illegal.
What I mean by that is specifically the amount of money that is put into the "war on drugs" most of the money that is poured into that "industry" is to go after weed. One quote from the documentary was that 5 million dollars go into drug enforcement in Canada and 4 million of that is specifically for weed. The other 1 million is for the hard drugs. I can only imagine how much more money is spent in the United States. And who do you think pays for this drug enforcement? Of course us the tax payers. So to the guy who talks about the expense weed would have on other people if it was made legal (health care burden), we are already paying the big expense, the witch hunt of marijuana enforcement.
The other main reason why weed is illegal is because of the pharmaceutical companies. In fact weed would probably be legal today if pharmaceutical companies were able to put a patent on weed, but they can't because it is most effective in its natural plant form. Quite frankly I am disgusted by our pharmaceutical companies because they aren't about saving lives but making money. All the pills and shit that America runs on has so many adverse side effects and these pills have caused more deaths than marijuana ever has or will. So the legalization of weed would hurt the wallets of all the big pharmaceutical companies. People wouldn't be so reliant on all those pills.
There was also a post earlier about how the middle class has the most control of policies. And while I would like that to be true I would argue that the filthy rich lobbyist and special interest groups in Washington have more control over policy. No matter how much we pride ourselves to be a great democracy it is very evident that the more money you have the louder your voice is.
So this is what really sickens me. The fact that marijuana is still illegal today not because the politicians don't realize how truly harmless marijuana is, especially compared to alcohol, cigarettes, prescription pills, and fast food, (politicians can't be that dumb) but it is because their pockets are being lined by the special interest lobbyists. It is because the prohibition of marijuana is a business in itself.
Does that disgust anyone else or is it just me?
Those are pretty serious allegations. Got any links with some proof? I don't mean YouTube videos of people claiming it to be true, though, like, evidence.
On September 08 2012 14:34 ChiknAdobo wrote: What I think is most interesting and disturbing/frightening is the real reason why weed is illegal. After watching the documentary, a few videos, and reading a lot of the conversation on here the conclusion I see is that there is a lot of money in keeping weed illegal.
What I mean by that is specifically the amount of money that is put into the "war on drugs" most of the money that is poured into that "industry" is to go after weed. One quote from the documentary was that 5 million dollars go into drug enforcement in Canada and 4 million of that is specifically for weed. The other 1 million is for the hard drugs. I can only imagine how much more money is spent in the United States. And who do you think pays for this drug enforcement? Of course us the tax payers. So to the guy who talks about the expense weed would have on other people if it was made legal (health care burden), we are already paying the big expense, the witch hunt of marijuana enforcement.
The other main reason why weed is illegal is because of the pharmaceutical companies. In fact weed would probably be legal today if pharmaceutical companies were able to put a patent on weed, but they can't because it is most effective in its natural plant form. Quite frankly I am disgusted by our pharmaceutical companies because they aren't about saving lives but making money. All the pills and shit that America runs on has so many adverse side effects and these pills have caused more deaths than marijuana ever has or will. So the legalization of weed would hurt the wallets of all the big pharmaceutical companies. People wouldn't be so reliant on all those pills.
There was also a post earlier about how the middle class has the most control of policies. And while I would like that to be true I would argue that the filthy rich lobbyist and special interest groups in Washington have more control over policy. No matter how much we pride ourselves to be a great democracy it is very evident that the more money you have the louder your voice is.
So this is what really sickens me. The fact that marijuana is still illegal today not because the politicians don't realize how truly harmless marijuana is, especially compared to alcohol, cigarettes, prescription pills, and fast food, (politicians can't be that dumb) but it is because their pockets are being lined by the special interest lobbyists. It is because the prohibition of marijuana is a business in itself.
Does that disgust anyone else or is it just me?
Those are pretty serious allegations. Got any links with some proof? I don't mean YouTube videos of people claiming it to be true, though, like, evidence.
Unfortunately I don't have any links to articles but most of the information comes from the documentary that is in the op. There is also another video clip that was posted in the high thread. While there isn't any definitive statistics, that I have, on pharmaceutical lobbyists lobbying against weed these are the connections that I have seen.
Another industry that thrives on marijuana prohibition is the prison system, this is also mentioned in the documentary. The number of private prisons in our country has grown drastically. I can't remember the exact stats but they are in the documentary. If anyone hasn't watched it yet you definitely should. I know its long make some popcorn or something.
On September 08 2012 14:34 ChiknAdobo wrote: What I think is most interesting and disturbing/frightening is the real reason why weed is illegal. After watching the documentary, a few videos, and reading a lot of the conversation on here the conclusion I see is that there is a lot of money in keeping weed illegal.
What I mean by that is specifically the amount of money that is put into the "war on drugs" most of the money that is poured into that "industry" is to go after weed. One quote from the documentary was that 5 million dollars go into drug enforcement in Canada and 4 million of that is specifically for weed. The other 1 million is for the hard drugs. I can only imagine how much more money is spent in the United States. And who do you think pays for this drug enforcement? Of course us the tax payers. So to the guy who talks about the expense weed would have on other people if it was made legal (health care burden), we are already paying the big expense, the witch hunt of marijuana enforcement.
The other main reason why weed is illegal is because of the pharmaceutical companies. In fact weed would probably be legal today if pharmaceutical companies were able to put a patent on weed, but they can't because it is most effective in its natural plant form. Quite frankly I am disgusted by our pharmaceutical companies because they aren't about saving lives but making money. All the pills and shit that America runs on has so many adverse side effects and these pills have caused more deaths than marijuana ever has or will. So the legalization of weed would hurt the wallets of all the big pharmaceutical companies. People wouldn't be so reliant on all those pills.
There was also a post earlier about how the middle class has the most control of policies. And while I would like that to be true I would argue that the filthy rich lobbyist and special interest groups in Washington have more control over policy. No matter how much we pride ourselves to be a great democracy it is very evident that the more money you have the louder your voice is.
So this is what really sickens me. The fact that marijuana is still illegal today not because the politicians don't realize how truly harmless marijuana is, especially compared to alcohol, cigarettes, prescription pills, and fast food, (politicians can't be that dumb) but it is because their pockets are being lined by the special interest lobbyists. It is because the prohibition of marijuana is a business in itself.
Does that disgust anyone else or is it just me?
Those are pretty serious allegations. Got any links with some proof? I don't mean YouTube videos of people claiming it to be true, though, like, evidence.
Unfortunately I don't have any links to articles but most of the information comes from the documentary that is in the op. There is also another video clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=buIhQqOXMMs that was posted in the high thread. While there isn't any definitive statistics, that I have, on pharmaceutical lobbyists lobbying against weed these are the connections that I have seen.
Another industry that thrives on marijuana prohibition is the prison system, this is also mentioned in the documentary. The number of private prisons in our country has grown drastically. I can't remember the exact stats but they are in the documentary. If anyone hasn't watched it yet you definitely should. I know its long make some popcorn or something.
Telling people to "go watch the documentary" really isn't the same thing as providing sources and evidence for your beliefs. I know its a lot of work, but if you can take the time to learn where the information in that video comes from and then explain it to someone, that would be a lot more potent than forwarding the video to them. Internalizing the information isn't as important as knowing the information is true.
I don't disagree with your statements. I just feel that many of us don't have the patience for "documentaries" like this, and would rather read the list of sources.
Even if I'm an avid alcohol drinker (beer) and tobacco smoker as those things are even worse than smoking weed (think about how many car accidents and dead people were caused by drunken drivers each and every year or the violent behaviors exhibited by drunken persons, for example, or how toxic tobacco smoke is for everyone), I'm all in for banning every substances that alters the natural state of mind or health in a very bad way, weed being not an exception. And if that ever happens, I'll abide it. I think it's futile to try to ban or exempt weed, we aren't even able to ban (lack of will) the most ever destructive "legal" substances like alcohol or tobacco. I think human race needs to look at the greater picture not at a peephole represented only by some substances that alters ones state of mind in such a radical (and unnatural) measure (be it mild ones) This is the sad truth indeed and sadly nothing is done against it. Till the "miracle" happens just DO NOT DRINK AND DRIVE
I love how the op posted different articles that were totally biased and against each other in their views of marijuana legalization, it needs to be legalized though because of how agriculturally important it is to our economy!
EPT
