On September 03 2012 08:44 TALegion wrote: I don't believe it's really logically sound to say that a person should never do drugs because they're bad. Don't get me wrong, they are unhealthy, but so is essentially everything we do that isn't eating, sleeping, drinking, and reproducing. Nice cars, big houses, junk food, casual sex, booze, television, video games, and even learning for pleasure are all things could be considered a waste of time and resources that could've been used towards a healthy lifestyle!
We're rather far beyond are primal life styles of having to spend all of our time surviving. We do things for pleasure, which is not healthy. Who's to say what is and isn't healthy, really? We don't need to be at the top of our game to survive, unless you're one of those people who aren't satisfied until they're running a fortune 500 company. So, why do we care so much about leading a, "healthy," lifestyle? As long as you're not a bum living off other people (which is a dick move if you can support yourself), why should anyone else even care?
"I'm the one that's got to die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life the way I want to." -Hendrix
I understand some people's straight-edge choices, but I really don't understand not allowing others to do what they want. As long as you're not puffing it in someone's face, how does weed really affect anyone but yourself? I sincerely hope that no one is such as a straight-up asshole as to actively go against another person because they're living their life differently than you. So, why is it illegal again?
It's not healthy for you, but so what? Neither is McDonalds, Starcraft, chocolate, television, and anything but walking. It's not a gateway drug, but even if it was, I guess my previous argument still applies. It's just not a gateway drug, it's the gateway culture/process that people now have to go through. You can't stop people. Is there a single human being who thinks that the prohibition or DEA have been successful? We're paying for cops to hunt those committing victimless crimes, courts to prosecute them, prisons to hold them, and food to feed them.
I really just don't get it, but I guess I don't need to considering the law's against me.
Marijuana is (well, should be) medicine, not a toy...abusing any kind of medicine will have detrimental effects on you, like I've seen. Maybe marijuana is not as detrimental as some things, but it can be detrimental nonetheless...and I find it selfish to abuse medicine that other people, suffering people, might actually need - no matter what medicine that is. Marijuana, adderall, ketamine, vicodin, whatever. Call me 'holier-than-thou' or whatever you want but those are my honest feelings. I've never abused prescription medicine and I never plan to because that kind of thing just does not sit well with me morally.
I actually concur with you that marijuana does hold some potential for abuse and that actions need to be taken to try and regulate it. I personally was prescribed marijuana because of cartilage-deficient right leg joints (mostly behind the patella and in my hip) and also the fact I have 8 screws and 2 plates holding my jaw together which coupled with the nerve damage in my lower jaw and neck causes me some discomfort on a regular basis. I do however have to debate that recreational use could also be beneficial in the treating of a very common ailment. Too much stress.
Maybe its just me but when I decide to have a nice cold beer or a glass of wine or back when I used to smoke cigarettes, when I wanted a cigarette was usually to relieve stress. I'd smoke a cigarette after a shift at work or I'd come home and have 2-3 beers while I relaxed and unwound from the stresses of working 3 jobs. I think it wouldn't too incorrect for me to say that a lot of puffers (you don't HAVE to smoke, you can vape or eat it too) use MJ for this same exact role. While drinking a little alcohol (not excessive) or smoking a cigarette (I got nothin good on this one) might be bad for you, I found it to be a way to deal with the extreme stresses of my daily life. I can't really deny someone else that same right.
Thank you for being kind and reasonable about the subject and I'm so sorry you had to go through that kind of pain; that's terrible!
Thing is, when I'm stressed, I take a nap...marijuana, as was stated before, is a hallucinogen, as mild as it may be it still alters your perception of reality and we have to draw the line somewhere.
Here's a strange example: I was given vicodin after I got my wisdom teeth out and one tablet didn't make the pain go away entirely, so I tried taking two and...uh, for about the next 38 or so hours I wasn't sure if I was awake or asleep and although the pain wasn't there I remember seeing purple and blue unicorns jumping over my pillows. I didn't think I should be using something that was making me hallucinate to stop pain though, so instead when it started to really hurt I took melatonin, a very mild sleeping pill and just slept until it didn't hurt anymore. That way I wouldn't potentially do something weird or make a decision I'd regret...or see jumping unicorns. That was too, too strange. Though from what I hear the effects of marijuana are not as severe as that. Like I said...just an example.
I just want to add some experience of my own, take what you will from it.
I smoked weed from the age of 14 until I was 18. I started off smoking the odd joint and ended up smoking it every day, usually through a bong or bucket (along with joints). I started smoking tobacco on occasions that I could not source weed. I still smoke tobacco now, 15 years later.
Weed was a gateway drug for me. This was at least partially due to the social circles I become involved with in order to get hold of weed. It was also partly due to wanting to try to get different kinds of high. Things went in a different direction before I got to heroin, which would of been the most likely progression after the drugs that I was using at the time, so I did not get a really bad habit (phet was probably the most addictive thing that I used, but that was not used daily).
At the age of 14 I was the most intelligent child I knew. That was never measured but it did not need to be as I simply learned many times faster than the brightest of my peers. By the age of 18 I was no longer ahead of my peers. I was still clever, but not abnormally so. I have always thought that the drug use had a lot to do with that, but that is an assumption with no real evidence.
I certainly had some good times as a teenager, but I would not recommend that other kids do the same. My stance would be that we need to stop kids getting hold of other adult-only substances (alcohol, tobacco etc) before canabis is legalized.
So tired of hearing marijuana users says that it has no negative effects on one's health. Utter bullshit. Seriously, get out. But, hey let's make it legal just like cigarettes. I mean, you want to fuck yourself over? Go ahead - less competition for me.
Look, if it didn't affect you, you wouldn't use it (i.e. it's used for the effects that it gives). To think that these effects are solely positive is so naive. Still, I'm all for legalization just like I said. Just make sure we start drug testing those on welfare and don't expect me to pay for your health insurance or make up for your lowered productivity on the job. Lame.
That being said, if you can actually smoke marijuana and not have it affect you and those around you - go right ahead with no argument from me.
On September 03 2012 08:56 Jojo131 wrote: I'd rather we just banned the whole lot, weed, alcohol, etc.
Can't even recall the number of trips to the hospital, vomit puddles and phone calls from the police my friends and I had to deal with because half of us couldn't find a better way to have a good time. No worthwhile hobbies, no set goals.
I agree.. just because some dumb asses couldn't handle themselves it should be illegal for everyone!
Mhmm, and I'm sure the number of times that drugs are abused is just once in a blue moon right?
On September 03 2012 08:44 TALegion wrote: I don't believe it's really logically sound to say that a person should never do drugs because they're bad. Don't get me wrong, they are unhealthy, but so is essentially everything we do that isn't eating, sleeping, drinking, and reproducing. Nice cars, big houses, junk food, casual sex, booze, television, video games, and even learning for pleasure are all things could be considered a waste of time and resources that could've been used towards a healthy lifestyle!
We're rather far beyond are primal life styles of having to spend all of our time surviving. We do things for pleasure, which is not healthy. Who's to say what is and isn't healthy, really? We don't need to be at the top of our game to survive, unless you're one of those people who aren't satisfied until they're running a fortune 500 company. So, why do we care so much about leading a, "healthy," lifestyle? As long as you're not a bum living off other people (which is a dick move if you can support yourself), why should anyone else even care?
"I'm the one that's got to die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life the way I want to." -Hendrix
I understand some people's straight-edge choices, but I really don't understand not allowing others to do what they want. As long as you're not puffing it in someone's face, how does weed really affect anyone but yourself? I sincerely hope that no one is such as a straight-up asshole as to actively go against another person because they're living their life differently than you. So, why is it illegal again?
It's not healthy for you, but so what? Neither is McDonalds, Starcraft, chocolate, television, and anything but walking. It's not a gateway drug, but even if it was, I guess my previous argument still applies. It's just not a gateway drug, it's the gateway culture/process that people now have to go through. You can't stop people. Is there a single human being who thinks that the prohibition or DEA have been successful? We're paying for cops to hunt those committing victimless crimes, courts to prosecute them, prisons to hold them, and food to feed them.
I really just don't get it, but I guess I don't need to considering the law's against me.
Marijuana is (well, should be) medicine, not a toy...abusing any kind of medicine will have detrimental effects on you, like I've seen. Maybe marijuana is not as detrimental as some things, but it can be detrimental nonetheless...and I find it selfish to abuse medicine that other people, suffering people, might actually need - no matter what medicine that is. Marijuana, adderall, ketamine, vicodin, whatever. Call me 'holier-than-thou' or whatever you want but those are my honest feelings. I've never abused prescription medicine and I never plan to because that kind of thing just does not sit well with me morally.
I actually concur with you that marijuana does hold some potential for abuse and that actions need to be taken to try and regulate it. I personally was prescribed marijuana because of cartilage-deficient right leg joints (mostly behind the patella and in my hip) and also the fact I have 8 screws and 2 plates holding my jaw together which coupled with the nerve damage in my lower jaw and neck causes me some discomfort on a regular basis. I do however have to debate that recreational use could also be beneficial in the treating of a very common ailment. Too much stress.
Maybe its just me but when I decide to have a nice cold beer or a glass of wine or back when I used to smoke cigarettes, when I wanted a cigarette was usually to relieve stress. I'd smoke a cigarette after a shift at work or I'd come home and have 2-3 beers while I relaxed and unwound from the stresses of working 3 jobs. I think it wouldn't too incorrect for me to say that a lot of puffers (you don't HAVE to smoke, you can vape or eat it too) use MJ for this same exact role. While drinking a little alcohol (not excessive) or smoking a cigarette (I got nothin good on this one) might be bad for you, I found it to be a way to deal with the extreme stresses of my daily life. I can't really deny someone else that same right.
Thank you for being kind and reasonable about the subject and I'm so sorry you had to go through that kind of pain; that's terrible!
Thing is, when I'm stressed, I take a nap...marijuana, as was stated before, is a hallucinogen, as mild as it may be it still alters your perception of reality and we have to draw the line somewhere.
Here's a strange example: I was given vicodin after I got my wisdom teeth out and one tablet didn't make the pain go away entirely, so I tried taking two and...uh, for about the next 38 or so hours I wasn't sure if I was awake or asleep and although the pain wasn't there I remember seeing purple and blue unicorns jumping over my pillows. I didn't think I should be using something that was making me hallucinate to stop pain though, so instead when it started to really hurt I took melatonin, a very mild sleeping pill and just slept until it didn't hurt anymore. That way I wouldn't potentially do something weird or make a decision I'd regret...or see jumping unicorns. That was too, too strange. Though from what I hear the effects of marijuana are not as severe as that. Like I said...just an example.
Cannabis indica basically has no hallucinogenic properties (large doses, but you will never experience major visuals or mind altering things) and pretty much puts you to sleep in medium to large doses. And it has cannabinoids which helps prevent cancer.
On September 03 2012 08:44 TALegion wrote: I don't believe it's really logically sound to say that a person should never do drugs because they're bad. Don't get me wrong, they are unhealthy, but so is essentially everything we do that isn't eating, sleeping, drinking, and reproducing. Nice cars, big houses, junk food, casual sex, booze, television, video games, and even learning for pleasure are all things could be considered a waste of time and resources that could've been used towards a healthy lifestyle!
We're rather far beyond are primal life styles of having to spend all of our time surviving. We do things for pleasure, which is not healthy. Who's to say what is and isn't healthy, really? We don't need to be at the top of our game to survive, unless you're one of those people who aren't satisfied until they're running a fortune 500 company. So, why do we care so much about leading a, "healthy," lifestyle? As long as you're not a bum living off other people (which is a dick move if you can support yourself), why should anyone else even care?
"I'm the one that's got to die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life the way I want to." -Hendrix
I understand some people's straight-edge choices, but I really don't understand not allowing others to do what they want. As long as you're not puffing it in someone's face, how does weed really affect anyone but yourself? I sincerely hope that no one is such as a straight-up asshole as to actively go against another person because they're living their life differently than you. So, why is it illegal again?
It's not healthy for you, but so what? Neither is McDonalds, Starcraft, chocolate, television, and anything but walking. It's not a gateway drug, but even if it was, I guess my previous argument still applies. It's just not a gateway drug, it's the gateway culture/process that people now have to go through. You can't stop people. Is there a single human being who thinks that the prohibition or DEA have been successful? We're paying for cops to hunt those committing victimless crimes, courts to prosecute them, prisons to hold them, and food to feed them.
I really just don't get it, but I guess I don't need to considering the law's against me.
Marijuana is (well, should be) medicine, not a toy...abusing any kind of medicine will have detrimental effects on you, like I've seen. Maybe marijuana is not as detrimental as some things, but it can be detrimental nonetheless...and I find it selfish to abuse medicine that other people, suffering people, might actually need - no matter what medicine that is. Marijuana, adderall, ketamine, vicodin, whatever. Call me 'holier-than-thou' or whatever you want but those are my honest feelings. I've never abused prescription medicine and I never plan to because that kind of thing just does not sit well with me morally.
I actually concur with you that marijuana does hold some potential for abuse and that actions need to be taken to try and regulate it. I personally was prescribed marijuana because of cartilage-deficient right leg joints (mostly behind the patella and in my hip) and also the fact I have 8 screws and 2 plates holding my jaw together which coupled with the nerve damage in my lower jaw and neck causes me some discomfort on a regular basis. I do however have to debate that recreational use could also be beneficial in the treating of a very common ailment. Too much stress.
Maybe its just me but when I decide to have a nice cold beer or a glass of wine or back when I used to smoke cigarettes, when I wanted a cigarette was usually to relieve stress. I'd smoke a cigarette after a shift at work or I'd come home and have 2-3 beers while I relaxed and unwound from the stresses of working 3 jobs. I think it wouldn't too incorrect for me to say that a lot of puffers (you don't HAVE to smoke, you can vape or eat it too) use MJ for this same exact role. While drinking a little alcohol (not excessive) or smoking a cigarette (I got nothin good on this one) might be bad for you, I found it to be a way to deal with the extreme stresses of my daily life. I can't really deny someone else that same right.
Thank you for being kind and reasonable about the subject and I'm so sorry you had to go through that kind of pain; that's terrible!
Thing is, when I'm stressed, I take a nap...marijuana, as was stated before, is a hallucinogen, as mild as it may be it still alters your perception of reality and we have to draw the line somewhere.
Here's a strange example: I was given vicodin after I got my wisdom teeth out and one tablet didn't make the pain go away entirely, so I tried taking two and...uh, for about the next 38 or so hours I wasn't sure if I was awake or asleep and although the pain wasn't there I remember seeing purple and blue unicorns jumping over my pillows. I didn't think I should be using something that was making me hallucinate to stop pain though, so instead when it started to really hurt I took melatonin, a very mild sleeping pill and just slept until it didn't hurt anymore. That way I wouldn't potentially do something weird or make a decision I'd regret...or see jumping unicorns. That was too, too strange. Though from what I hear the effects of marijuana are not as severe as that. Like I said...just an example.
Cannabis indica basically has no hallucinogenic properties (large doses, but you will never experience major visuals or mind altering things) and pretty much puts you to sleep in medium to large doses. And it has cannabinoids which helps prevent cancer.
Ah, thank you for the info there, though I figured I would have heard about it by now if people were really seeing crazy things while high. (That is, you hear about LSD freakouts but I've never heard of a marijuana freakout.) It still slows you down, however, which in some situations could be quite dangerous.
And of course there's my own moral high-horse that I'm just glued to. ('Least I admit it.)
On September 03 2012 08:27 OmiDeLta wrote: My bigger problem is that marijuana has legit medical purposes but people want to abuse it just to get high. Abuse of prescription drugs is a huge hot-button issue with me. Personal stuff that nobody wants to hear about, blah blah blah...I am too tired to be awake and too awake to sleep...
Leave it be mate. You had a bad start entering this discussion, which happens. I admire your passion, but you seem to blame marijuana consumption a little too hard. I guess from you posts, your still under 20. I'm a bit older unfortunately and i'd like to share some "wisdom":
Your friends drastically changing might have been influenced by them taking up smoking, yes. But it doesn't have to be the ultimate reason. You gotta realise that stuff like this is absolutely normal. People change, first of all in their "teen" years. I switched my entire circle of friends when i was 16-17 just because i got to know new people which i prefered to hang around with and my interests changed. That's the way it goes sometimes. I don't know your situation, i don't know you, i don't know your friends. But them smoking weed may not be the only reason.
Also don't trust everyone who is a respected scientist, doctor or whatever. There are maybe as much "smarter", "more respected" people with a complete different opinion. No one is all knowing and everyone has their own motives. Also, people lie to you. Polititians lie, doctors lie and parents lie. Sad but true.
As you seem to be interested in the topic, just check the "The Union" out, which was mentionend and linked a couple of times in this thread. It helps to see things from a different perspective. You don't have to believe anything in there and it may be a bit biased, but informing yourself, staying open minded, doesn't hurt. It has some really good points to think about and both sides give their argumentation (of course favoring the pro legalisation side, but you know that in advance). "Smart people read at least 2 different newspapers. A conservative one and a liberal one."
No one wants everybody to get high all the time and no one wants to make people like you smoke. It's just if you are misinformed (which you are), prepare to get owned in a legalize weed discussion. I also think, smoking weed may be hurtful to you if you suffer a mental condition or something like that. And of course if you abuse it hardcore. That's when the alcohol/etc. comparisons come into play.
My english is not perfect, but i hope you get what i want to tell you. I'd also like to see your evidence for weed damaging your brain the way your meanigless little pic indicated. Take care.
edit: Also don't take stuff personal on the internet.
On September 03 2012 08:44 TALegion wrote: I don't believe it's really logically sound to say that a person should never do drugs because they're bad. Don't get me wrong, they are unhealthy, but so is essentially everything we do that isn't eating, sleeping, drinking, and reproducing. Nice cars, big houses, junk food, casual sex, booze, television, video games, and even learning for pleasure are all things could be considered a waste of time and resources that could've been used towards a healthy lifestyle!
We're rather far beyond are primal life styles of having to spend all of our time surviving. We do things for pleasure, which is not healthy. Who's to say what is and isn't healthy, really? We don't need to be at the top of our game to survive, unless you're one of those people who aren't satisfied until they're running a fortune 500 company. So, why do we care so much about leading a, "healthy," lifestyle? As long as you're not a bum living off other people (which is a dick move if you can support yourself), why should anyone else even care?
"I'm the one that's got to die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life the way I want to." -Hendrix
I understand some people's straight-edge choices, but I really don't understand not allowing others to do what they want. As long as you're not puffing it in someone's face, how does weed really affect anyone but yourself? I sincerely hope that no one is such as a straight-up asshole as to actively go against another person because they're living their life differently than you. So, why is it illegal again?
It's not healthy for you, but so what? Neither is McDonalds, Starcraft, chocolate, television, and anything but walking. It's not a gateway drug, but even if it was, I guess my previous argument still applies. It's just not a gateway drug, it's the gateway culture/process that people now have to go through. You can't stop people. Is there a single human being who thinks that the prohibition or DEA have been successful? We're paying for cops to hunt those committing victimless crimes, courts to prosecute them, prisons to hold them, and food to feed them.
I really just don't get it, but I guess I don't need to considering the law's against me.
Marijuana is (well, should be) medicine, not a toy...abusing any kind of medicine will have detrimental effects on you, like I've seen. Maybe marijuana is not as detrimental as some things, but it can be detrimental nonetheless...and I find it selfish to abuse medicine that other people, suffering people, might actually need - no matter what medicine that is. Marijuana, adderall, ketamine, vicodin, whatever. Call me 'holier-than-thou' or whatever you want but those are my honest feelings. I've never abused prescription medicine and I never plan to because that kind of thing just does not sit well with me morally.
I actually concur with you that marijuana does hold some potential for abuse and that actions need to be taken to try and regulate it. I personally was prescribed marijuana because of cartilage-deficient right leg joints (mostly behind the patella and in my hip) and also the fact I have 8 screws and 2 plates holding my jaw together which coupled with the nerve damage in my lower jaw and neck causes me some discomfort on a regular basis. I do however have to debate that recreational use could also be beneficial in the treating of a very common ailment. Too much stress.
Maybe its just me but when I decide to have a nice cold beer or a glass of wine or back when I used to smoke cigarettes, when I wanted a cigarette was usually to relieve stress. I'd smoke a cigarette after a shift at work or I'd come home and have 2-3 beers while I relaxed and unwound from the stresses of working 3 jobs. I think it wouldn't too incorrect for me to say that a lot of puffers (you don't HAVE to smoke, you can vape or eat it too) use MJ for this same exact role. While drinking a little alcohol (not excessive) or smoking a cigarette (I got nothin good on this one) might be bad for you, I found it to be a way to deal with the extreme stresses of my daily life. I can't really deny someone else that same right.
Thank you for being kind and reasonable about the subject and I'm so sorry you had to go through that kind of pain; that's terrible!
Thing is, when I'm stressed, I take a nap...marijuana, as was stated before, is a hallucinogen, as mild as it may be it still alters your perception of reality and we have to draw the line somewhere.
Here's a strange example: I was given vicodin after I got my wisdom teeth out and one tablet didn't make the pain go away entirely, so I tried taking two and...uh, for about the next 38 or so hours I wasn't sure if I was awake or asleep and although the pain wasn't there I remember seeing purple and blue unicorns jumping over my pillows. I didn't think I should be using something that was making me hallucinate to stop pain though, so instead when it started to really hurt I took melatonin, a very mild sleeping pill and just slept until it didn't hurt anymore. That way I wouldn't potentially do something weird or make a decision I'd regret...or see jumping unicorns. That was too, too strange. Though from what I hear the effects of marijuana are not as severe as that. Like I said...just an example.
Cannabis indica basically has no hallucinogenic properties (large doses, but you will never experience major visuals or mind altering things) and pretty much puts you to sleep in medium to large doses. And it has cannabinoids which helps prevent cancer.
Ah, thank you for the info there, though I figured I would have heard about it by now if people were really seeing crazy things while high. It still slows you down, however, which in some situations could be quite dangerous.
And of course there's my own moral high-horse that I'm just glued to. ('Least I admit it.)
Two different types of weed - cannabis indica (sleepy, body high) and cannabis sativa (uplifting, trippy high). People refer to sativa when they talk about seeing crazy things (which really doesn't happen with ANY type of weed....)
I understand it slows you down and could be potentially dangerous, but many people do more dangerous and stupid things when they are angry (recreational use helps), stressed (recreational use helps), and anxious (recreational use helps). I know it's a WEAK argument, but the argument about weed slowing you down causing dangerous situations is weak as well.
On September 03 2012 09:09 CaptainAmerica wrote: So tired of hearing marijuana users says that it has no negative effects on one's health. Utter bullshit. Seriously, get out. But, hey let's make it legal just like cigarettes. I mean, you want to fuck yourself over? Go ahead - less competition for me.
Look, if it didn't affect you, you wouldn't use it (i.e. it's used for the effects that it gives). To think that these effects are solely positive is so naive. Still, I'm all for legalization just like I said. Just make sure we start drug testing those on welfare and don't expect me to pay for your health insurance or make up for your lowered productivity on the job. Lame.
That being said, if you can actually smoke marijuana and not have it affect you and those around you - go right ahead with no argument from me.
GLHF
So tired of hearing anti-marijuana people spouting propoganda and base-less studies. The words "might have" or "may cause" to you people seem to mean "OMGTHISPROVESIT". You remind me of the fanatics who think the world has been taken over by reptilian aliens (no joke, there's actually people that believe this) and look at some headline without bothering to read the whole article or educate yourself thoroughly on the subject before jumping to some very irrational conclusion.
There's no proof of anything bad other than "it may not be right for some people or under certain circumstances" and "smoking anything is bad". The first is true of ALL medicines and the second is easily squashed with the simple fact that you can eat/drink/vaporize MJ too and get everything you need from it. These methods do not have ANY harmful side-effects.
Would you drive a car hammered? Would you operate heavy demolition or construction equipment while on any sort of strong painkiller? Would you try mixing drugs together to see if you can get a stronger effect?
If you answer "yes" to ANY of these, the problem is not in the substances but the user. The word to remember when discussing ANYTHING that would limit ANYONE in their freedoms is "responsibility". People willing to be responsible for their own actions are less and less common these days.
On September 03 2012 08:44 TALegion wrote: I don't believe it's really logically sound to say that a person should never do drugs because they're bad. Don't get me wrong, they are unhealthy, but so is essentially everything we do that isn't eating, sleeping, drinking, and reproducing. Nice cars, big houses, junk food, casual sex, booze, television, video games, and even learning for pleasure are all things could be considered a waste of time and resources that could've been used towards a healthy lifestyle!
We're rather far beyond are primal life styles of having to spend all of our time surviving. We do things for pleasure, which is not healthy. Who's to say what is and isn't healthy, really? We don't need to be at the top of our game to survive, unless you're one of those people who aren't satisfied until they're running a fortune 500 company. So, why do we care so much about leading a, "healthy," lifestyle? As long as you're not a bum living off other people (which is a dick move if you can support yourself), why should anyone else even care?
"I'm the one that's got to die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life the way I want to." -Hendrix
I understand some people's straight-edge choices, but I really don't understand not allowing others to do what they want. As long as you're not puffing it in someone's face, how does weed really affect anyone but yourself? I sincerely hope that no one is such as a straight-up asshole as to actively go against another person because they're living their life differently than you. So, why is it illegal again?
It's not healthy for you, but so what? Neither is McDonalds, Starcraft, chocolate, television, and anything but walking. It's not a gateway drug, but even if it was, I guess my previous argument still applies. It's just not a gateway drug, it's the gateway culture/process that people now have to go through. You can't stop people. Is there a single human being who thinks that the prohibition or DEA have been successful? We're paying for cops to hunt those committing victimless crimes, courts to prosecute them, prisons to hold them, and food to feed them.
I really just don't get it, but I guess I don't need to considering the law's against me.
Marijuana is (well, should be) medicine, not a toy...abusing any kind of medicine will have detrimental effects on you, like I've seen. Maybe marijuana is not as detrimental as some things, but it can be detrimental nonetheless...and I find it selfish to abuse medicine that other people, suffering people, might actually need - no matter what medicine that is. Marijuana, adderall, ketamine, vicodin, whatever. Call me 'holier-than-thou' or whatever you want but those are my honest feelings. I've never abused prescription medicine and I never plan to because that kind of thing just does not sit well with me morally.
So do you think we should be angry at caffeine abusers, too, since they are abusing a much more dangerous drug than marijuana?
Caffeine isn't medicine so that doesn't really work in this context...that is, it's a separate issue. I'm just talking about medicine...
Caffeine is used in a ton of prescription and over the counter drugs even though it isn't prescribed on its own to my knowledge.
On September 03 2012 08:44 TALegion wrote: I don't believe it's really logically sound to say that a person should never do drugs because they're bad. Don't get me wrong, they are unhealthy, but so is essentially everything we do that isn't eating, sleeping, drinking, and reproducing. Nice cars, big houses, junk food, casual sex, booze, television, video games, and even learning for pleasure are all things could be considered a waste of time and resources that could've been used towards a healthy lifestyle!
We're rather far beyond are primal life styles of having to spend all of our time surviving. We do things for pleasure, which is not healthy. Who's to say what is and isn't healthy, really? We don't need to be at the top of our game to survive, unless you're one of those people who aren't satisfied until they're running a fortune 500 company. So, why do we care so much about leading a, "healthy," lifestyle? As long as you're not a bum living off other people (which is a dick move if you can support yourself), why should anyone else even care?
"I'm the one that's got to die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life the way I want to." -Hendrix
I understand some people's straight-edge choices, but I really don't understand not allowing others to do what they want. As long as you're not puffing it in someone's face, how does weed really affect anyone but yourself? I sincerely hope that no one is such as a straight-up asshole as to actively go against another person because they're living their life differently than you. So, why is it illegal again?
It's not healthy for you, but so what? Neither is McDonalds, Starcraft, chocolate, television, and anything but walking. It's not a gateway drug, but even if it was, I guess my previous argument still applies. It's just not a gateway drug, it's the gateway culture/process that people now have to go through. You can't stop people. Is there a single human being who thinks that the prohibition or DEA have been successful? We're paying for cops to hunt those committing victimless crimes, courts to prosecute them, prisons to hold them, and food to feed them.
I really just don't get it, but I guess I don't need to considering the law's against me.
Marijuana is (well, should be) medicine, not a toy...abusing any kind of medicine will have detrimental effects on you, like I've seen. Maybe marijuana is not as detrimental as some things, but it can be detrimental nonetheless...and I find it selfish to abuse medicine that other people, suffering people, might actually need - no matter what medicine that is. Marijuana, adderall, ketamine, vicodin, whatever. Call me 'holier-than-thou' or whatever you want but those are my honest feelings. I've never abused prescription medicine and I never plan to because that kind of thing just does not sit well with me morally.
So do you think we should be angry at caffeine abusers, too, since they are abusing a much more dangerous drug than marijuana?
Caffeine isn't medicine so that doesn't really work in this context...that is, it's a separate issue. I'm just talking about medicine...
Caffeine is used in a ton of prescription and over the counter drugs even though it isn't prescribed on its own to my knowledge.
Lol marijuana should be a medicine... I couldn't agree more, and it should be as available as Tylenol (since it does 10x the job Tylenol does and won't fuck you over nearly as hard as popping Tylenol constantly will)
On September 03 2012 09:41 Jojo131 wrote: *Hear what I want to hear, post sources of things that say what I want to hear, everything else is bullshit lalalala*
Noticing quite a lot of this on both sides.
Ey yo. It's a discussion in an online gaming forum wtf do you expect?
The difference is, the really good, proven arguments are only on the pro side. Am i hearing what to hear? Maybe, but then i challenge you to come up with some proof countering those arguments. Go ahead!
On September 03 2012 09:41 Jojo131 wrote: *Hear what I want to hear, post sources of things that say what I want to hear, everything else is bullshit lalalala*
Noticing quite a lot of this on both sides.
I suppose that is true, but frankly I can't find a single source that supports the drug as either fatal/dangerous/damaging etc etc etc that isn't written up by legislators and then constantly smashed down by renowned physicians/doctors across the globe...
I suppose my biggest argument here is that I would like to see three things from "Pro-banners"
1) Proof it is dangerous to not only your health but those around you 2) Proof that it is a "gateway" drug in the sense you smoke it and want to get another "fix". It would be hard not to argue that the blackmarket is the real gateway drug because you go to the dealer and he goes "yo I got this new shit in"... You don't walk up and go "GIVE ME THAT COCAINE MOTHERFUCKER" because you're strung out on pot. 3) Why pot should be illegal vs every other drug that isn't. It is safer than Tylenol/Alcohol/Cigarettes and pretty much every other drug/consumable item known to man.
EDIT: IF you're curious, he goes on to say that it is his medical opinion that the drug is rather harmless but there are studies dhowing a possible conncetion with mental disorders (schizophrenia) but the studies are "not conclusive" such that it should be discouraged to smoke pot.
He also compares all of the rumors and explains why pot doesn't lead to death etc etc.
'I don't think it [marijuana] contributes very much to people dying. It's not in the league of alcohol or tobacco,' says Dr. Stephen Sidney, an associate director of clinical research with the Kaiser Permanente health plan who has studied the effects of marijuana use on life span.
The debate began in May, when the journal ran an editorial by a British medical professor and colleagues suggesting the United Kingdom isn't paying enough attention to the health risks of marijuana.
'We were concerned that smoking is constantly being regarded as a major public health hazard, while cannabis, which is also usually smoked rather than consumed any other way, seems to have been completely overlooked,' says Dr. John A. Henry, a professor at the Imperial College School of Medicine at St Mary's Hospital in London.
Tobacco smoking kills almost 1 percent of smokers each year in the United Kingdom, and if marijuana had the same effect, some 30,000 people would die from it annually, Henry and colleagues wrote.
'Even if the number of deaths attributable to cannabis turned out to be a fraction of that figure, smoking cannabis [marijuana] would still be a major public health hazard,' the team wrote.
Studies Debunk Pot-Death Connection
The suggestions in the editorial spawned a flurry of letters and commentaries. In the most recent one, printed in the Sept. 20 issue of the British Medical Journal, Sidney points to two studies that debunked any connection between marijuana and higher death rates.
In a Swedish study, researchers found no link between marijuana use among more than 45,000 male military conscripts, aged 18 to 20, and their death rates over the next 15 years.
Another study of 65,171 men and women enrolled in the Kaiser Permanente health plan found that, with the exception of AIDS patients, marijuana users were not more likely than others to die over a 10-year period.
Sidney acknowledges the follow-up periods are short, and says the marijuana users in the studies could still suffer from higher rates of disease later in life.
Even so, evidence suggests smoking pot is much safer than smoking cigarettes, he says. 'One of the reasons is that marijuana is not inherently as addictive as tobacco because it doesn't contain nicotine. Many more people get addicted to tobacco smoking than marijuana smoking.'
Also, pot users take much less smoke into their lungs than tobacco users, and many stop using marijuana as they get older, Sidney says. 'It's the unusual person who's smoking seven marijuana cigarettes or joints a day. They're not smoking more than one on average, and they tend to quit.'
Most compelling part btw relating to a Professor claiming it is overlooked and then being smashed down for it.
On September 03 2012 09:41 Jojo131 wrote: *Hear what I want to hear, post sources of things that say what I want to hear, everything else is bullshit lalalala*
Noticing quite a lot of this on both sides.
I suppose that is true, but frankly I can't find a single source that supports the drug as either fatal/dangerous/damaging etc etc etc that isn't written up by legislators and then constantly smashed down by renowned physicians/doctors across the globe...
I suppose my biggest argument here is that I would like to see three things from "Pro-banners"
1) Proof it is dangerous to not only your health but those around you 2) Proof that it is a "gateway" drug in the sense you smoke it and want to get another "fix". It would be hard not to argue that the blackmarket is the real gateway drug because you go to the dealer and he goes "yo I got this new shit in"... You don't walk up and go "GIVE ME THAT COCAINE MOTHERFUCKER" because you're strung out on pot. 3) Why pot should be illegal vs every other drug that isn't. It is safer than Tylenol/Alcohol/Cigarettes and pretty much every other drug/consumable item known to man.
Whoever said earlier that their dad is a "Researcher" made me lol at work today. My dad is probably the best autobody man in the province and I wouldn't know fuck all about how to fix a car so why even bring that up in disscussion... Using anecdotal evidence was just the cherry on top of his terrible points...
The only way Pot is a "Gateway" drug is because prohibition makes you interact with sketchy people. In my province which is known for its bud I have never had a dealer sell anything other than pot. Maybe it's different in other areas but here I haven't seen it.
The guy who owns the place I work smokes a ton of pot and hes a self made millionaire who started with next to nothing.
On September 02 2012 11:22 Mohdoo wrote: Alcohol is harder to get in high school than weed is.
This is so true. Prohibition isn't control, it is admittance that there is no desire to control.
This is not true at all. Or at least with any high school I know of.
Getting booze was always a challenge and we always had to pay the boot like 10 bucks so we would be paying $35 for a mickey of shitty booze and it was almost always a panic to get some. We would also have to bus for like 40 minutes to get to a Gov't owned liquor store.
Or at my school I could ask nearly any person in my class and have a hook up after school for pot one phone call away and get an 1/8 of an ounce for like $30ish and have them drop it off.
Which one is more appealing to you?
If pot was decriminalized it would be more like alcohol and it would be much more difficult to get weed as a kid.
At the very least keeping Marijuana illegal for medication is disgusting and immoral. People suffering from Chemo, AIDS, Numerous GI Disorders and people suffering from Chronic pain are being denied treatment that would massively increase their quality of life. I watched a documentary on a soldier who was shot in the head and lost a massive chunk of his brain and the only way he could cope with the pain and his mental issues was by smoking hash.
EPT
and i'd like to share some "wisdom": 
