Lance Armstrong to lose Titles, Banned - Page 24

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farvacola

United States18856 Posts

August 24 2012 18:27 GMT

#461

On August 25 2012 03:23 Frigo wrote:

Show nested quote +

Well ladies and gentlemen, that is exactly what is wrong with the world.

I wouldn't extrapolate quite that dramatically. As someone with a degree of familiarity in regards to performance enhancing substances I can tell you that with the proper resources an elite athlete ought never test positive for anything ever; masking agents are better now than they've ever been before.

radiatoren

Denmark1907 Posts

August 24 2012 18:28 GMT

#462

Here is the original source behind the news stories:
http://www.usada.org/media/sanction-armstrong8242012

It is very clear that USADA doesn't even doubt for a second that they would be able to convict him in a case:
"...More than 12 witnesses...",
"...5 other individuals that the independent review panel’s finding confirmed sufficient and in fact overwhelming evidence..."

That being said Armstrong was a great cyclist even before his fight against cancer and the period in which he is not pleading "not guilty" of using doping. Unfortunately doping was even more common at that time and we can probably talk about an "equal" playingfield in those days.

Terranist

United States2496 Posts

August 24 2012 18:29 GMT

#463

imo the rest of the cycling world is angry that they couldn't beat him. he was never caught and he never will be, it's pathetic that they intend to harass him for the rest of his days because they will never have a way to catch him cheating while he is retired.

0neder

United States3733 Posts

August 24 2012 18:30 GMT

#464

When everyone loved him I discerned something about him. I always suspected him of doping even when my brothers and friends thought I was being silly. I would not be surprised.

And I'm not one of those people who likes to be negative and contrary and a downer.

HomeWorld

Romania903 Posts

August 24 2012 18:30 GMT

#465

On August 25 2012 03:20 Liquid`Drone wrote:
How can people defend this guy? He's quite literally the biggest fraud through sporting history. It's not sad that he's finally caught, it's sad that he managed to trick millions of people into buying his legitimacy and that he managed to create a fraudulent legacy. However, him finally being caught is good. This is a joyous day for cycling, because this has been a very important step towards restoring some of the tarnished reputation it has been developing over the past 2 decades - especially during the armstrong years.

And I mean come on. There's no way in hell he'd give up his medals if he didn't know that the public hearing with 10+ former teammates of his burning him on a stake would ruin his reputation even worse than accepting this ruling did. (As should be evident; guy still has supporters? I mean wtf.)

Are you on crack? He never got caught, ....the rest tl;dr.
Hope you are not so eager to judge a person irl, lets take for example yourself, if I can say without a doubt that you are on crack you (I hope) won't agree with me, if you do, it will be a joyous day for us because this has been a very important step from you towards restoring some of your self esteem and honesty.

PS: I know, kinda aggressive stance, but it was needed.

StarStruck

25339 Posts

August 24 2012 18:30 GMT

#466

On August 25 2012 03:27 farvacola wrote:

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It's ridiculous how far the science has gone.

Really if the athlete is stupid enough to get caught they have no one else to really blame but themselves.

Need to have good doctors, a nutritionist and possibly a biochemist. o;

StarStruck

25339 Posts

August 24 2012 18:33 GMT

#467

On August 25 2012 03:28 radiatoren wrote:
Here is the original source behind the news stories:
http://www.usada.org/media/sanction-armstrong8242012

It is very clear that USADA doesn't even doubt for a second that they would be able to convict him in a case:
"...More than 12 witnesses...",
"...5 other individuals that the independent review panel’s finding confirmed sufficient and in fact overwhelming evidence..."

That being said Armstrong was a great cyclist even before his fight against cancer and the period in which he is not pleading "not guilty" of using doping. Unfortunately doping was even more common at that time and we can probably talk about an "equal" playingfield in those days.

Of course they would now because they have a better idea of what he did back then and now.

They've had several years to work on this shit and the list is ever growing.

L_Master

United States8017 Posts

August 24 2012 18:34 GMT

#468

On August 25 2012 03:14 HomeWorld wrote:

Show nested quote +

On August 25 2012 03:06 L_Master wrote:

On August 25 2012 03:01 HomeWorld wrote:

On August 25 2012 02:47 sAsImre wrote:

On August 25 2012 02:46 HomeWorld wrote:

On August 25 2012 02:40 Trok67 wrote:

On August 25 2012 02:25 Mr Showtime wrote:
Unbelievably fucking stupid. He's been harassed non-stop, and he finally gives in. Now they are going to take them away EVEN THOUGH THERE IS STILL NO EVIDENCE. He'll get them back. This is far too moronic for him not to get them back.

no evidence ? 10 american teammates or so, most of them ready to testify under oath, saying that he was using PEDs along with the US-postal team. He got tested positive by a test on TdF 1999 tested back in 2005 (but the test was supposed to be anonymous so didnt count) and some positive blood test that they were about to reveal.

There is so much proof that he preferred to avoid the trial because he had absolutely no chance to get away with it

It is strange to see how many american people are still defending him. You guys usually are known to give a very strong value to the law and how people should respect it in any circumstances. And yet one can hear "it is no big deal other were doing it also", "it is still a great performance he should get away with it", "he won tour de france 7 times he shouldnt get harras like that", "thats so long ago they should just drop it...".

The law is the law period and you can't just let people get away with it. It broke the rules and he has to pay for it.

Ten peoples ready to jump from a bridge is not an evidence of that said bridge being deadly.
Suffice to say, we should wait for those 10 american teammates to testify first then jump to conclusions.

1999/2005. that's all it have to be said. Not mentionning the fact some blood test were supposed to be reaveled in case of a trial. they can't testimate since Armstrong refused the trial, you trapped yourself with ignorance here mate.

Jumpy jumpy to conclusions you are, aren't you? The thing is that there are no direct evidences incriminating Lance for using banned substances/bla bla (and you know what that means). Yet we are so eager to throw stones at him just because "he might". That's not the way of doing justice. Also I believe Lance gives a crap for those 7 titles, I guess he's more than happy to be alive than to care for those titles.

Rest of your post is fine, though I'm not sure people are eager to "throw stones" at him.

But this gives a crap about his 7 titles....that is complete, total BS. That is the man's cycling legacy, his major life's body of work. That's like saying you worked and slaved away in the laboratory for 20 years to come up with a drug to cure Alzheimer's and then when somebody else copied it and stole credit you wouldn't care? No way man...

Does it matter? He (Lance) survived a deadly condition (don't know how, but he did it). I might say that nothing in the world can be more precious than being able to have a normal life, not even 7 lol titles.

Just because he had, and survived, cancer doen't mean he suddenly stopped caring about his legacy and life's accomplishments. I'm sure he was/is extremely grateful to be alive, but that doesn't mean his legacy stops mattering to him.

On August 25 2012 03:30 HomeWorld wrote:

Show nested quote +

Are you on crack? He never got caught, ....the rest tl;dr.
Hope you are not so eager to judge a person irl, lets take for example yourself, if I can say without a doubt that you are on crack you (I hope) won't agree with me, if you do, it will be a joyous day for us because this has been a very important step from you towards restoring some of your self esteem and honesty.

PS: I know, kinda aggressive stance, but it was needed.

You're missing the point. USADA not only has the truly massive witness testimony but more importantly they have his biological passport and other markers that indicate he doped, some of which is recent (past 2 years) and others that date back to his tour days.

In other words, USADA has also the "scientific" evidence to indicate doping. There is more to this case than just "some of Lance's teammates said so".

multiversed

United States233 Posts

August 24 2012 18:39 GMT

#469

i'm also curious about testosterone in his system. it is common for people in his situation to have replacement therapy because they can no longer produce normal levels. this has become the recent medical marijuana style trend in MMA. everyone is filing for TRT permits and getting them... it's a really blurry fucking line.

Warlock40

601 Posts

August 24 2012 18:43 GMT

#470

I like Lance Armstrong, I really do. But it should be obvious that, especially in a field such as this, testing negative does not prove innocence whatsoever. From what I understand based on some random documentary I watched, it's sort of like this - new drugs continue to be made, and testing agencies are in a perpetual state of catch-up. Today, Drug X might be made, and it might be awhile before tests for Drug X can be devised. By that time, Drug Y will be in use, and so on. If Lance Armstrong tested negative for Drugs A through Y, that could just mean that he was on Drug Z.

That said, I still like Lance Armstrong. I think it's time to dust off those LIVESTRONG bracelets, if only for the retro/hipster/anti-conformative vibe they would give.

HomeWorld

Romania903 Posts

August 24 2012 18:48 GMT

#471

On August 25 2012 03:34 L_Master wrote:

Show nested quote +

On August 25 2012 03:14 HomeWorld wrote:

On August 25 2012 03:06 L_Master wrote:

On August 25 2012 03:01 HomeWorld wrote:

On August 25 2012 02:47 sAsImre wrote:

On August 25 2012 02:46 HomeWorld wrote:

On August 25 2012 02:40 Trok67 wrote:

Ten peoples ready to jump from a bridge is not an evidence of that said bridge being deadly.
Suffice to say, we should wait for those 10 american teammates to testify first then jump to conclusions.

Yet a hell lot of people question how he built his "legacy". I am not trying to defend him, I just consider him innocent until proven otherwise. What USADA did isn't ok either, you cannot judge a person and later find him guilty just because that person refused to take any further role in that simulacrum. The way I see it, USADA ruling was rushed and not based on compelling facts. Kind of "you took your toys from the sandbox ?! No problem, I'll erase all your castles and ban you from the sandbox".

SayGen

United States1209 Posts

August 24 2012 18:49 GMT

#472

He passed literally hundreds of drug tests over the years.
If he passed the tests than the substances he was using weren't illegal for said competetion, imho

Also after 10 years of allegations, I'd be fed up with the whole thing too.

Thojorin

Germany162 Posts

August 24 2012 18:53 GMT

#473

it ends... in utter darkness

MVega

763 Posts

August 24 2012 18:57 GMT

#474

So weird. Apparently half of atheletes said they would take a drug that would guarentee them a win but would kill them within 5 years, because winning a medal or whatever is just that important to them. That doesn't however mean that Lance Armstrong is one of those atheletes. He could be in the other half of athletes and he's a guy who has been through a lot and been under siege for so long over allegations of doping ... It's really not that hard to imagine he just wouldn't give a fuck about his legacy as much as other people seem to. He knows he won, other cyclists know he won, his friends and family and fans know he won, why should he care what people think about him 50 years after he's dead? He'll be dead.

Now he can just get on with his life. Life is short, his legacy means fuck all.

Steel

Japan2283 Posts

August 24 2012 19:05 GMT

#475

Regardless if he did or not, its still a huge accomplishment, and they couldn't convict while he was competing. Any conviction now is just spite or greed.

Idk, if he did take drugs I really don't believe he deserved a title...regardless of whether or not other people took drugs as well. You just can't tolerate that kind of stuff at all. I don't know much about law but I wish there was a proper trial with a defense against the anti-doping industry so that he can receive a punishment proportional to the evidence.

IMABUNNEH

United Kingdom1062 Posts

August 24 2012 19:08 GMT

#476

There's still no proof he DID do anything wrong right? Throughout his career he never tested positive, was never late or missed a single drug test.

He's being done now because he can't be bothered to fight them anymore.

VictorJones

United States235 Posts

August 24 2012 19:10 GMT

#477

USADA has evidence, just not hard evidence. Interested to see how this pans out

Kihshra

178 Posts

August 24 2012 19:17 GMT

#478

On August 25 2012 04:08 IMABUNNEH wrote:
There's still no proof he DID do anything wrong right? Throughout his career he never tested positive, was never late or missed a single drug test.

He's being done now because he can't be bothered to fight them anymore.

Oh, there are evidence, or usada wouldn't have gone that far. But they won't reveal their evidence cause there won't be any trial, so Armstrong will still be able to claim he's innocent. Convenient, right ?

Trok67

France384 Posts

August 24 2012 19:19 GMT

#479

STOP with this bullshit of NO PROOFS. I don't know who launched this non-sense but just read the article about the investigations. There are a LOT OF PROOFS. Testimonies of many many american teammates, medical teams, and so on and so on. He also got tested positive one time in 1999 (sample tested back in 20205 showed presence of EPO) and he also got blood samples consistant with blood transfusion tested in 2010 2011. The evidence are just massive, I mean, come on, a lot of people were ready to testify against him + drug test positive, what do you need more ? In a real trial it would be even more persuasive than if he admitted himself to do it.

He just avoided any trial by saying it does not want one because he knows he does not stand a single chance to face the evidence and he prefers to avoid them to be released.

zev318

Canada4306 Posts

August 24 2012 19:25 GMT

#480

On August 25 2012 03:43 Warlock40 wrote:
I like Lance Armstrong, I really do. But it should be obvious that, especially in a field such as this, testing negative does not prove innocence whatsoever. From what I understand based on some random documentary I watched, it's sort of like this - new drugs continue to be made, and testing agencies are in a perpetual state of catch-up. Today, Drug X might be made, and it might be awhile before tests for Drug X can be devised. By that time, Drug Y will be in use, and so on. If Lance Armstrong tested negative for Drugs A through Y, that could just mean that he was on Drug Z.

That said, I still like Lance Armstrong. I think it's time to dust off those LIVESTRONG bracelets, if only for the retro/hipster/anti-conformative vibe they would give.

that's just saying guilty until proven innocent and how is he going to prove that to people? if he is doping then he's not going to say oh well im on drug Z. and if he isn't doping, you just go ahead and say well u must be on drug Z that we cant prove yet, and then if eventually u cant prove that he is on drug Z, you're going to say he's on drug AB. its a never ending cycle, you could go on forever, maybe 100 years from now you'll finally get to say "AH HA! i caught u with drug AB finally!"

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