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farvacola
United States18832 Posts
On August 25 2012 03:23 Frigo wrote: Well ladies and gentlemen, that is exactly what is wrong with the world. I wouldn't extrapolate quite that dramatically. As someone with a degree of familiarity in regards to performance enhancing substances I can tell you that with the proper resources an elite athlete ought never test positive for anything ever; masking agents are better now than they've ever been before. | ||
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radiatoren
Denmark1907 Posts
http://www.usada.org/media/sanction-armstrong8242012 It is very clear that USADA doesn't even doubt for a second that they would be able to convict him in a case: "...More than 12 witnesses...", "...5 other individuals that the independent review panel’s finding confirmed sufficient and in fact overwhelming evidence..." That being said Armstrong was a great cyclist even before his fight against cancer and the period in which he is not pleading "not guilty" of using doping. Unfortunately doping was even more common at that time and we can probably talk about an "equal" playingfield in those days. | ||
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Terranist
United States2496 Posts
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0neder
United States3733 Posts
And I'm not one of those people who likes to be negative and contrary and a downer. | ||
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HomeWorld
Romania903 Posts
On August 25 2012 03:20 Liquid`Drone wrote: How can people defend this guy? He's quite literally the biggest fraud through sporting history. It's not sad that he's finally caught, it's sad that he managed to trick millions of people into buying his legitimacy and that he managed to create a fraudulent legacy. However, him finally being caught is good. This is a joyous day for cycling, because this has been a very important step towards restoring some of the tarnished reputation it has been developing over the past 2 decades - especially during the armstrong years. And I mean come on. There's no way in hell he'd give up his medals if he didn't know that the public hearing with 10+ former teammates of his burning him on a stake would ruin his reputation even worse than accepting this ruling did. (As should be evident; guy still has supporters? I mean wtf.) Are you on crack? He never got caught, ....the rest tl;dr. Hope you are not so eager to judge a person irl, lets take for example yourself, if I can say without a doubt that you are on crack you (I hope) won't agree with me, if you do, it will be a joyous day for us because this has been a very important step from you towards restoring some of your self esteem and honesty. PS: I know, kinda aggressive stance, but it was needed. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On August 25 2012 03:27 farvacola wrote: I wouldn't extrapolate quite that dramatically. As someone with a degree of familiarity in regards to performance enhancing substances I can tell you that with the proper resources an elite athlete ought never test positive for anything ever; masking agents are better now than they've ever been before. It's ridiculous how far the science has gone. Really if the athlete is stupid enough to get caught they have no one else to really blame but themselves. Need to have good doctors, a nutritionist and possibly a biochemist. o; | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On August 25 2012 03:28 radiatoren wrote: Here is the original source behind the news stories: http://www.usada.org/media/sanction-armstrong8242012 It is very clear that USADA doesn't even doubt for a second that they would be able to convict him in a case: "...More than 12 witnesses...", "...5 other individuals that the independent review panel’s finding confirmed sufficient and in fact overwhelming evidence..." That being said Armstrong was a great cyclist even before his fight against cancer and the period in which he is not pleading "not guilty" of using doping. Unfortunately doping was even more common at that time and we can probably talk about an "equal" playingfield in those days. Of course they would now because they have a better idea of what he did back then and now. They've had several years to work on this shit and the list is ever growing. | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On August 25 2012 03:14 HomeWorld wrote: Does it matter? He (Lance) survived a deadly condition (don't know how, but he did it). I might say that nothing in the world can be more precious than being able to have a normal life, not even 7 lol titles. Just because he had, and survived, cancer doen't mean he suddenly stopped caring about his legacy and life's accomplishments. I'm sure he was/is extremely grateful to be alive, but that doesn't mean his legacy stops mattering to him. On August 25 2012 03:30 HomeWorld wrote: Are you on crack? He never got caught, ....the rest tl;dr. Hope you are not so eager to judge a person irl, lets take for example yourself, if I can say without a doubt that you are on crack you (I hope) won't agree with me, if you do, it will be a joyous day for us because this has been a very important step from you towards restoring some of your self esteem and honesty. PS: I know, kinda aggressive stance, but it was needed. You're missing the point. USADA not only has the truly massive witness testimony but more importantly they have his biological passport and other markers that indicate he doped, some of which is recent (past 2 years) and others that date back to his tour days. In other words, USADA has also the "scientific" evidence to indicate doping. There is more to this case than just "some of Lance's teammates said so". | ||
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multiversed
United States233 Posts
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Warlock40
601 Posts
That said, I still like Lance Armstrong. I think it's time to dust off those LIVESTRONG bracelets, if only for the retro/hipster/anti-conformative vibe they would give. | ||
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HomeWorld
Romania903 Posts
On August 25 2012 03:34 L_Master wrote: Just because he had, and survived, cancer doen't mean he suddenly stopped caring about his legacy and life's accomplishments. I'm sure he was/is extremely grateful to be alive, but that doesn't mean his legacy stops mattering to him. Yet a hell lot of people question how he built his "legacy". I am not trying to defend him, I just consider him innocent until proven otherwise. What USADA did isn't ok either, you cannot judge a person and later find him guilty just because that person refused to take any further role in that simulacrum. The way I see it, USADA ruling was rushed and not based on compelling facts. Kind of "you took your toys from the sandbox ?! No problem, I'll erase all your castles and ban you from the sandbox". | ||
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SayGen
United States1209 Posts
If he passed the tests than the substances he was using weren't illegal for said competetion, imho Also after 10 years of allegations, I'd be fed up with the whole thing too. | ||
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Thojorin
Germany162 Posts
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MVega
763 Posts
Now he can just get on with his life. Life is short, his legacy means fuck all. | ||
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Steel
Japan2283 Posts
Regardless if he did or not, its still a huge accomplishment, and they couldn't convict while he was competing. Any conviction now is just spite or greed. Idk, if he did take drugs I really don't believe he deserved a title...regardless of whether or not other people took drugs as well. You just can't tolerate that kind of stuff at all. I don't know much about law but I wish there was a proper trial with a defense against the anti-doping industry so that he can receive a punishment proportional to the evidence. | ||
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IMABUNNEH
United Kingdom1062 Posts
He's being done now because he can't be bothered to fight them anymore. | ||
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VictorJones
United States235 Posts
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Kihshra
178 Posts
On August 25 2012 04:08 IMABUNNEH wrote: There's still no proof he DID do anything wrong right? Throughout his career he never tested positive, was never late or missed a single drug test. He's being done now because he can't be bothered to fight them anymore. Oh, there are evidence, or usada wouldn't have gone that far. But they won't reveal their evidence cause there won't be any trial, so Armstrong will still be able to claim he's innocent. Convenient, right ? | ||
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Trok67
France384 Posts
On August 25 2012 04:08 IMABUNNEH wrote: There's still no proof he DID do anything wrong right? Throughout his career he never tested positive, was never late or missed a single drug test. He's being done now because he can't be bothered to fight them anymore. STOP with this bullshit of NO PROOFS. I don't know who launched this non-sense but just read the article about the investigations. There are a LOT OF PROOFS. Testimonies of many many american teammates, medical teams, and so on and so on. He also got tested positive one time in 1999 (sample tested back in 20205 showed presence of EPO) and he also got blood samples consistant with blood transfusion tested in 2010 2011. The evidence are just massive, I mean, come on, a lot of people were ready to testify against him + drug test positive, what do you need more ? In a real trial it would be even more persuasive than if he admitted himself to do it. He just avoided any trial by saying it does not want one because he knows he does not stand a single chance to face the evidence and he prefers to avoid them to be released. | ||
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zev318
Canada4306 Posts
On August 25 2012 03:43 Warlock40 wrote: I like Lance Armstrong, I really do. But it should be obvious that, especially in a field such as this, testing negative does not prove innocence whatsoever. From what I understand based on some random documentary I watched, it's sort of like this - new drugs continue to be made, and testing agencies are in a perpetual state of catch-up. Today, Drug X might be made, and it might be awhile before tests for Drug X can be devised. By that time, Drug Y will be in use, and so on. If Lance Armstrong tested negative for Drugs A through Y, that could just mean that he was on Drug Z. That said, I still like Lance Armstrong. I think it's time to dust off those LIVESTRONG bracelets, if only for the retro/hipster/anti-conformative vibe they would give. that's just saying guilty until proven innocent and how is he going to prove that to people? if he is doping then he's not going to say oh well im on drug Z. and if he isn't doping, you just go ahead and say well u must be on drug Z that we cant prove yet, and then if eventually u cant prove that he is on drug Z, you're going to say he's on drug AB. its a never ending cycle, you could go on forever, maybe 100 years from now you'll finally get to say "AH HA! i caught u with drug AB finally!" | ||
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