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What's Wrong with Multiculturalism? - Page 20

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DeepElemBlues
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States5079 Posts
August 15 2012 17:03 GMT
#381
Multiculturalism doesn't work because you need certain public values and beliefs to be held by the vast majority of the population. It's necessary for a civil society. If you have 85% of the population thinking women are equal to men and 15% thinking they aren't as a formal part of their identity, you're going to have friction and problems.
no place i'd rather be than the satellite of love
ddrddrddrddr
Profile Joined August 2010
1344 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-15 18:21:41
August 15 2012 18:21 GMT
#382
Multiculturalism could work if there are laws ensuring that anyone has the inalienable right to choose their cultural boundaries should they wish to with impunity. If people want to tread their women like dirt, that's fine. I might even tolerate it. But the women should have te right to defect and no harm should come to them. You end up with a shrinking culture without women and their only choice is to treat women better. Or is this too naive of a concept and people will just start chaining women in basements...
RvB
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands6285 Posts
August 15 2012 18:47 GMT
#383
On August 16 2012 03:21 ddrddrddrddr wrote:
Multiculturalism could work if there are laws ensuring that anyone has the inalienable right to choose their cultural boundaries should they wish to with impunity. If people want to tread their women like dirt, that's fine. I might even tolerate it. But the women should have te right to defect and no harm should come to them. You end up with a shrinking culture without women and their only choice is to treat women better. Or is this too naive of a concept and people will just start chaining women in basements...

In practise I doubt this will work its very difficult for women to leave their husband even when they get abused and hit. And it's common in some cultures for families to kick out the women who divorce from their men which makes it extremely difficult for them to choose for the self since they're usually not well educated and it's hard for them to get a job.
iPlaY.NettleS
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Australia4423 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-16 12:53:54
August 16 2012 12:51 GMT
#384
On August 16 2012 03:47 RvB wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2012 03:21 ddrddrddrddr wrote:
Multiculturalism could work if there are laws ensuring that anyone has the inalienable right to choose their cultural boundaries should they wish to with impunity. If people want to tread their women like dirt, that's fine. I might even tolerate it. But the women should have te right to defect and no harm should come to them. You end up with a shrinking culture without women and their only choice is to treat women better. Or is this too naive of a concept and people will just start chaining women in basements...

In practise I doubt this will work its very difficult for women to leave their husband even when they get abused and hit. And it's common in some cultures for families to kick out the women who divorce from their men which makes it extremely difficult for them to choose for the self since they're usually not well educated and it's hard for them to get a job.

Actually i recall a case in the UK a few years back where a muslim woman who wore a headscarf permanently applied for a job at a hairdressing salon.The employer at the salon at the job interview asked this woman if she would take her scarf off while working at the salon so that people who went for their haircut could see her hair and maybe ask for that style and she refused.

Anyhow she did not get the job and then sued the employer and won.I'm sure the story is still out there if you want to read more about it.My point is wearing headscarves and burkhas decreases their job opportunities as well , not just their general lack of job experience or education.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7PvoI6gvQs
Bahamut1337
Profile Joined July 2012
Ghana205 Posts
August 16 2012 13:10 GMT
#385
On August 16 2012 21:51 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2012 03:47 RvB wrote:
On August 16 2012 03:21 ddrddrddrddr wrote:
Multiculturalism could work if there are laws ensuring that anyone has the inalienable right to choose their cultural boundaries should they wish to with impunity. If people want to tread their women like dirt, that's fine. I might even tolerate it. But the women should have te right to defect and no harm should come to them. You end up with a shrinking culture without women and their only choice is to treat women better. Or is this too naive of a concept and people will just start chaining women in basements...

In practise I doubt this will work its very difficult for women to leave their husband even when they get abused and hit. And it's common in some cultures for families to kick out the women who divorce from their men which makes it extremely difficult for them to choose for the self since they're usually not well educated and it's hard for them to get a job.

Actually i recall a case in the UK a few years back where a muslim woman who wore a headscarf permanently applied for a job at a hairdressing salon.The employer at the salon at the job interview asked this woman if she would take her scarf off while working at the salon so that people who went for their haircut could see her hair and maybe ask for that style and she refused.

Anyhow she did not get the job and then sued the employer and won.I'm sure the story is still out there if you want to read more about it.My point is wearing headscarves and burkhas decreases their job opportunities as well , not just their general lack of job experience or education.


A few days ago a Muslim woman sued disney for asking her to wear a headscarf which would be suited for their parks, she refused and is now in a courtroom to demand money

When one enter a muslim nation we should behave to their standards
when a Muslim enters the west we should adapt to their standards, and guess what? we do! because they are so much more violent.
Legate
Profile Joined November 2011
46 Posts
August 16 2012 13:20 GMT
#386
What is wrong with multiculturalism?

A lot. But imo the biggest issue is, that a country which pursues a multicultural policy like the one in most western countries, over a long period of time, is basically committing ethnic and cultural suicide.
Severedevil
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4839 Posts
August 17 2012 01:32 GMT
#387
On August 16 2012 22:20 Legate wrote:
What is wrong with multiculturalism?

A lot. But imo the biggest issue is, that a country which pursues a multicultural policy like the one in most western countries, over a long period of time, is basically committing ethnic and cultural suicide.

I certainly hope we're committing ethnic and cultural suicide. Neither is worth preserving.

The danger is not that we'll lose our culture, but that it will be replaced by a repressive, evil one.
My strategy is to fork people.
Roe
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada6002 Posts
August 17 2012 01:42 GMT
#388
On August 17 2012 10:32 Severedevil wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2012 22:20 Legate wrote:
What is wrong with multiculturalism?

A lot. But imo the biggest issue is, that a country which pursues a multicultural policy like the one in most western countries, over a long period of time, is basically committing ethnic and cultural suicide.

I certainly hope we're committing ethnic and cultural suicide. Neither is worth preserving.

The danger is not that we'll lose our culture, but that it will be replaced by a repressive, evil one.


You think our culture is going to be replaced by an evil one, but also that you hope for our culture to die completely? I think there's a lot in western philosophy that is worth keeping (free inquiry, expression, association, etc) don't you?
Oaky
Profile Joined August 2012
United States95 Posts
August 17 2012 07:08 GMT
#389
On August 11 2012 15:42 zalz wrote:
Multiculturalism doesn't work. You need some form of cohession, some larger culture that everyone somehow feels a part of.

If not that, it is simply cultural segregation, something which is already a fact in many places in Europe.


Not all cultures are equal.

You are stupid for putting a value on culture, which is a product of many circumstantial things.
SOOOOOOO MANY BANELINGS!
zalz
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Netherlands3704 Posts
August 17 2012 08:24 GMT
#390
On August 17 2012 16:08 Oaky wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2012 15:42 zalz wrote:
Multiculturalism doesn't work. You need some form of cohession, some larger culture that everyone somehow feels a part of.

If not that, it is simply cultural segregation, something which is already a fact in many places in Europe.


Not all cultures are equal.

You are stupid for putting a value on culture, which is a product of many circumstantial things.


In what way does the circumstantial nature detract from the value? It seems a nonsensical statement.
iPlaY.NettleS
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Australia4423 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-17 08:38:34
August 17 2012 08:32 GMT
#391
On August 17 2012 10:32 Severedevil wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2012 22:20 Legate wrote:
What is wrong with multiculturalism?

A lot. But imo the biggest issue is, that a country which pursues a multicultural policy like the one in most western countries, over a long period of time, is basically committing ethnic and cultural suicide.

I certainly hope we're committing ethnic and cultural suicide. Neither is worth preserving.

If you don't like the culture in the US why not move elsewhere.This self defeating negative crap gets us nowhere.

You think our culture is going to be replaced by an evil one, but also that you hope for our culture to die completely? I think there's a lot in western philosophy that is worth keeping (free inquiry, expression, association, etc) don't you?

The problem boils down to inept governments.How many people on Wall Street were jailed for the 2008 financial crisis? If no-one (OK except small fry Bernie Madoff) was jailed does that mean noone did anything wrong? Most of Obamas advisors are ex Wall Street that should tell you something and the Republicans are just as bad.

Then you've got the welfare culture where unemployed workshys think they are owed a living by hard working folks.Time to roll back the welfare state and you might start seeing strong work ethic and other values start creeping back into more of the population.Society would be better off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7PvoI6gvQs
DoubleReed
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States4130 Posts
August 17 2012 12:49 GMT
#392
Excuse me, but multiculturalism is responsible for huge bounds in culture. Jazz comes from African rhythms mixing with western tonalities and instruments. It led to Rock and Pop. This Afro-European music has essentially dominated the globe because it's just so much better than everything before it.

As for the "racism is natural" charge, Implicit Racism is very different from Explicit Racism. People do not create bigoted laws based on Implicit Racism. Almost everyone is an implicit racist. That's not at all a fair charge.
iPlaY.NettleS
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Australia4423 Posts
August 17 2012 14:14 GMT
#393
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7PvoI6gvQs
SiroKO
Profile Joined February 2012
France721 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-22 20:01:09
August 22 2012 20:00 GMT
#394
On August 17 2012 23:14 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp3Eam5FX58



I seriously don't understand why women are free to use their natural "indirect and psychological" violence while men are forced to be on a playground which isnt theirs.

The cleric's premisse is "if YOU beat your wife".
He never discussed about the reasons, but you obviously need to have a good one.

In case she harasses you psychologically very hard, or cheats with another man, I don't see anything wrong with light beating not causing any bruises.
Claiming there's virtually no scenario where light beatings could be an option is by far more extremist.




Our envy always last longer than the happiness of those we envy
Shady Sands
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4021 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-22 20:07:58
August 22 2012 20:07 GMT
#395
On August 23 2012 05:00 SiroKO wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2012 23:14 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp3Eam5FX58



I seriously don't understand why women are free to use their natural "indirect and psychological" violence while men are forced to be on a playground which isnt theirs.

The cleric's premisse is "if YOU beat your wife".
He never discussed about the reasons, but you obviously need to have a good one.

In case she harasses you psychologically very hard, or cheats with another man, I don't see anything wrong with light beating not causing any bruises.
Claiming there's virtually no scenario where light beatings could be an option is by far more extremist.






Dude, physical violence in the context of an intimate relationship is never okay. Kind of scary that people still think it is.

If she's treating you like shit, it doesn't give you the right to beat her. It does, however, give you the right to leave, and leave her penniless with the divorce settlement (assuming you were smart and got a pre-nup drafted and signed in a male-friendly jurisdiction.)
Что?
SiroKO
Profile Joined February 2012
France721 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-22 20:23:49
August 22 2012 20:21 GMT
#396
On August 23 2012 05:07 Shady Sands wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2012 05:00 SiroKO wrote:
On August 17 2012 23:14 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp3Eam5FX58



I seriously don't understand why women are free to use their natural "indirect and psychological" violence while men are forced to be on a playground which isnt theirs.

The cleric's premisse is "if YOU beat your wife".
He never discussed about the reasons, but you obviously need to have a good one.

In case she harasses you psychologically very hard, or cheats with another man, I don't see anything wrong with light beating not causing any bruises.
Claiming there's virtually no scenario where light beatings could be an option is by far more extremist.






Dude, physical violence in the context of an intimate relationship is never okay. Kind of scary that people still think it is.

If she's treating you like shit, it doesn't give you the right to beat her. It does, however, give you the right to leave, and leave her penniless with the divorce settlement (assuming you were smart and got a pre-nup drafted and signed in a male-friendly jurisdiction.)


I'm not saying direct violence is the solution.
My point is that in a few cases, I consider it to be healthier than the typical sly judiciary/psychological tricks.

Ofc, the "violence" I'm talking about has nothing to do with a beat-down or an uppercut.
Our envy always last longer than the happiness of those we envy
DoubleReed
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States4130 Posts
August 22 2012 21:09 GMT
#397
On August 23 2012 05:21 SiroKO wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2012 05:07 Shady Sands wrote:
On August 23 2012 05:00 SiroKO wrote:
On August 17 2012 23:14 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp3Eam5FX58



I seriously don't understand why women are free to use their natural "indirect and psychological" violence while men are forced to be on a playground which isnt theirs.

The cleric's premisse is "if YOU beat your wife".
He never discussed about the reasons, but you obviously need to have a good one.

In case she harasses you psychologically very hard, or cheats with another man, I don't see anything wrong with light beating not causing any bruises.
Claiming there's virtually no scenario where light beatings could be an option is by far more extremist.






Dude, physical violence in the context of an intimate relationship is never okay. Kind of scary that people still think it is.

If she's treating you like shit, it doesn't give you the right to beat her. It does, however, give you the right to leave, and leave her penniless with the divorce settlement (assuming you were smart and got a pre-nup drafted and signed in a male-friendly jurisdiction.)


I'm not saying direct violence is the solution.
My point is that in a few cases, I consider it to be healthier than the typical sly judiciary/psychological tricks.

Ofc, the "violence" I'm talking about has nothing to do with a beat-down or an uppercut.


???

You just said "I don't see anything wrong with a light beating." Yea, you're real classy here.

I'm a little confused. Are men too stupid and dim-witted to use psychological harm of your own? What exactly is the issue here? It sounds like you're just a dumb brute who only understands physical violence.

No. Hitting, restraining, and raping people is not okay. I think maybe you need to go back to Kindergarten to learn basic morality.
Shady Sands
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4021 Posts
August 22 2012 21:26 GMT
#398
On August 23 2012 05:21 SiroKO wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2012 05:07 Shady Sands wrote:
On August 23 2012 05:00 SiroKO wrote:
On August 17 2012 23:14 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp3Eam5FX58



I seriously don't understand why women are free to use their natural "indirect and psychological" violence while men are forced to be on a playground which isnt theirs.

The cleric's premisse is "if YOU beat your wife".
He never discussed about the reasons, but you obviously need to have a good one.

In case she harasses you psychologically very hard, or cheats with another man, I don't see anything wrong with light beating not causing any bruises.
Claiming there's virtually no scenario where light beatings could be an option is by far more extremist.






Dude, physical violence in the context of an intimate relationship is never okay. Kind of scary that people still think it is.

If she's treating you like shit, it doesn't give you the right to beat her. It does, however, give you the right to leave, and leave her penniless with the divorce settlement (assuming you were smart and got a pre-nup drafted and signed in a male-friendly jurisdiction.)


I'm not saying direct violence is the solution.
My point is that in a few cases, I consider it to be healthier than the typical sly judiciary/psychological tricks.

Ofc, the "violence" I'm talking about has nothing to do with a beat-down or an uppercut.


Here's the thing: if you ever feel the need to inflict pain, physical or emotional, your significant other, then it's time to just walk away. Love shouldn't ever be about wanting to hurt someone.

That's what I meant with the "right to leave". You always have a right to leave. That's the trump card in a relationship. The trump card should never be "I have a right to slap you around a little" or "emotionally abuse you to the point of making you suicidal".

Note that this applies for the woman just as much it does for the man. If a girl feels like she has the right to sleep around to take revenge on her boyfriend/husband, she's much better off just leaving. It's just not healthy to keep going in that sort of situation. Even if there's hope for a turnaround, chances are things will just get worse and eventually spiral out of control.
Что?
SiroKO
Profile Joined February 2012
France721 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-22 22:38:01
August 22 2012 22:37 GMT
#399
On August 23 2012 06:26 Shady Sands wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2012 05:21 SiroKO wrote:
On August 23 2012 05:07 Shady Sands wrote:
On August 23 2012 05:00 SiroKO wrote:
On August 17 2012 23:14 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp3Eam5FX58



I seriously don't understand why women are free to use their natural "indirect and psychological" violence while men are forced to be on a playground which isnt theirs.

The cleric's premisse is "if YOU beat your wife".
He never discussed about the reasons, but you obviously need to have a good one.

In case she harasses you psychologically very hard, or cheats with another man, I don't see anything wrong with light beating not causing any bruises.
Claiming there's virtually no scenario where light beatings could be an option is by far more extremist.






Dude, physical violence in the context of an intimate relationship is never okay. Kind of scary that people still think it is.

If she's treating you like shit, it doesn't give you the right to beat her. It does, however, give you the right to leave, and leave her penniless with the divorce settlement (assuming you were smart and got a pre-nup drafted and signed in a male-friendly jurisdiction.)


I'm not saying direct violence is the solution.
My point is that in a few cases, I consider it to be healthier than the typical sly judiciary/psychological tricks.

Ofc, the "violence" I'm talking about has nothing to do with a beat-down or an uppercut.


Here's the thing: if you ever feel the need to inflict pain, physical or emotional, your significant other, then it's time to just walk away. Love shouldn't ever be about wanting to hurt someone.

That's what I meant with the "right to leave". You always have a right to leave. That's the trump card in a relationship. The trump card should never be "I have a right to slap you around a little" or "emotionally abuse you to the point of making you suicidal".

Note that this applies for the woman just as much it does for the man. If a girl feels like she has the right to sleep around to take revenge on her boyfriend/husband, she's much better off just leaving. It's just not healthy to keep going in that sort of situation. Even if there's hope for a turnaround, chances are things will just get worse and eventually spiral out of control.


The thing is, the pain inflicted by men, even if it's light, is often obvious and thus (judiciarly but not only) reprehensible.
While the typical sly emotionnal harassment or persecution is indirect, by far more damaging, but cannot be seen, thus can hardly be condemned.

I see in our society how indirect violence dominates everything, and I sometimes wish people would be more direct and less hypocritical.
For instance, I much prefer being slapped in the face, rather than suddenly be ignored and having to bear her sneaky remarks on my back.

But sadly, today we only hear about violent stupid fucks, or smart never-violent gentlemen... thus when you talk about violence, even rationally, people automatically label you as a stupid machismo brute.


Our envy always last longer than the happiness of those we envy
starfries
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada3508 Posts
August 23 2012 00:05 GMT
#400
On August 23 2012 07:37 SiroKO wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2012 06:26 Shady Sands wrote:
On August 23 2012 05:21 SiroKO wrote:
On August 23 2012 05:07 Shady Sands wrote:
On August 23 2012 05:00 SiroKO wrote:
On August 17 2012 23:14 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp3Eam5FX58



I seriously don't understand why women are free to use their natural "indirect and psychological" violence while men are forced to be on a playground which isnt theirs.

The cleric's premisse is "if YOU beat your wife".
He never discussed about the reasons, but you obviously need to have a good one.

In case she harasses you psychologically very hard, or cheats with another man, I don't see anything wrong with light beating not causing any bruises.
Claiming there's virtually no scenario where light beatings could be an option is by far more extremist.






Dude, physical violence in the context of an intimate relationship is never okay. Kind of scary that people still think it is.

If she's treating you like shit, it doesn't give you the right to beat her. It does, however, give you the right to leave, and leave her penniless with the divorce settlement (assuming you were smart and got a pre-nup drafted and signed in a male-friendly jurisdiction.)


I'm not saying direct violence is the solution.
My point is that in a few cases, I consider it to be healthier than the typical sly judiciary/psychological tricks.

Ofc, the "violence" I'm talking about has nothing to do with a beat-down or an uppercut.


Here's the thing: if you ever feel the need to inflict pain, physical or emotional, your significant other, then it's time to just walk away. Love shouldn't ever be about wanting to hurt someone.

That's what I meant with the "right to leave". You always have a right to leave. That's the trump card in a relationship. The trump card should never be "I have a right to slap you around a little" or "emotionally abuse you to the point of making you suicidal".

Note that this applies for the woman just as much it does for the man. If a girl feels like she has the right to sleep around to take revenge on her boyfriend/husband, she's much better off just leaving. It's just not healthy to keep going in that sort of situation. Even if there's hope for a turnaround, chances are things will just get worse and eventually spiral out of control.


The thing is, the pain inflicted by men, even if it's light, is often obvious and thus (judiciarly but not only) reprehensible.
While the typical sly emotionnal harassment or persecution is indirect, by far more damaging, but cannot be seen, thus can hardly be condemned.

I see in our society how indirect violence dominates everything, and I sometimes wish people would be more direct and less hypocritical.
For instance, I much prefer being slapped in the face, rather than suddenly be ignored and having to bear her sneaky remarks on my back.

But sadly, today we only hear about violent stupid fucks, or smart never-violent gentlemen... thus when you talk about violence, even rationally, people automatically label you as a stupid machismo brute.



yeah but the idea is that the correct response to abuse, emotional or otherwise is not "more abuse". two wrongs don't make a right, don't fight fire with fire, and all that good stuff.

I mean, if she's being a bitch, then what you're saying is that there are two possible responses
a) be a bitch right back at her
b) PIMP SLAP DAT HO
while SS is pointing out there's a third response
c) find someone else who isn't a bitch
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