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On July 12 2012 13:20 SafeAsCheese wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 12:41 xtruder wrote:
Here's an idea:
The people claiming gaming addiction isn't real are actually addicted and are in denial. I would say people are saying South Korea has a bad understanding of "gaming addiction". They want all their children to be worker bees and study 15 hours a day. A kid plays Starcraft for 4 hours a day instead of reading his Calculus textbook? Must be an addict, let's make some laws. There is a reason South Korea has the highest suicide rates of children by a dramatic margin than any other first world country. Pressure. Constant pressure from parents and governments. I don't mean to come off as a ignorant/racist, but this has been pretty blatant in some Asian countries for quite a few years now.
The only place where this phenomenon is worse, is in China. There you have to compete against 1 million other students in the same field, so 0.001 point on the end score can be the difference between getting admitted to the top35 universities, or a regular one. Same with work in there.
This law does not enforce the curfew, but it forces all applications to have the ability to implement it. The law in itself isn't "harmful" but the problem lies elsewhere. If it's good or bad, we're not able to judge right now. I know one thing. If my (future) child would show that he plays too much games as opposed to working on his future, then I will stop him from doing that, and there's no need for parental control there. The key in my eyes lies in the way you bring up your kids.
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I feel bad for the south korean kids  , too much pressure -> turn to games -> now games are taken away -> kids turn to other things
i'm not qualified to make any judgment, sometimes the world is just sad
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I dont see a problem in parents deciding the playtime of their kids even until they are 18.
Dont come up with "free mind" and shit. Parents are still the boss if you live under their roof and are underaged.
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On July 13 2012 06:39 bailando wrote:
I dont see a problem in parents deciding the playtime of their kids even until they are 18.
Dont come up with "free mind" and shit. Parents are still the boss if you live under their roof and are underaged.
While that is true, I think the argument above about how intense the competition is over there and how much pressure comes from family, shows that their may actually be a problem. Work your kid 15 hours a day without any breaks for relaxation or enjoyment and eventually they'll just turn off their brains and refuse to learn.
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On July 13 2012 09:14 Levi Deninard wrote:
While that is true, I think the argument above about how intense the competition is over there and how much pressure comes from family, shows that their may actually be a problem. Work your kid 15 hours a day without any breaks for relaxation or enjoyment and eventually they'll just turn off their brains and refuse to learn.
I think thats what the western world always thinks..."asians work 20 hours a day and sleep 4".
I mean look at it this way:
Maru is the youngest GSL player (i believe). If he works 14 hours a day for school....and lets say sleeps 6-8 hours theres not much time left especially when he comes home at 6 or 8 pm.
You cant tell me he is GSL Code S when he has only about 4 hours time a day and sometimes no time at all to play!
get outa here! 
If a 14 year old can make it to the highest and most prestigious (hope i wrote that right lol) SC2 tournemant...well fuck me he got time.
I believe pro gamers are just horribly bad at school. At least most of them. especially IF we go that way you all think that theres so much pressure.
Well guess what, its not bad to cut gaming if you can get a decent degree for your later life.
Just my oppinion on that. Hope you understand.
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The linked article gives a pathetic amount of information on the subject. How are exactly are parents going to control their children's online gaming schedules?
And whatever happened to punishing kids for not listening to their parents? Does South Korea really need a law that steps in where parents should have in the first place?
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I think the subliminal message in that was: "screw you SK, now WE can win in starcraft 2." I actually disliked the article almost entirely on that basis. Then again, I'm not affected by what happens to Korean gamers, so that might have something to do with it.
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On July 13 2012 17:48 bailando wrote:I think thats what the western world always thinks..."asians work 20 hours a day and sleep 4". I mean look at it this way: Maru is the youngest GSL player (i believe). If he works 14 hours a day for school....and lets say sleeps 6-8 hours theres not much time left especially when he comes home at 6 or 8 pm. You cant tell me he is GSL Code S when he has only about 4 hours time a day and sometimes no time at all to play! get outa here! If a 14 year old can make it to the highest and most prestigious (hope i wrote that right lol) SC2 tournemant...well fuck me he got time. I believe pro gamers are just horribly bad at school. At least most of them. especially IF we go that way you all think that theres so much pressure. Well guess what, its not bad to cut gaming if you can get a decent degree for your later life. Just my oppinion on that. Hope you understand.
You raised a good point, I will admit my perspective was a bit skewed, with the benefit of hindsight. Regardless though; I don't think the Anti-Gaming law will really solve anything. Since those pro-gamers make decent money over there, I doubt those that are on the higher end (and are young) will care to much about school if they're already making good money, and I'm inclined to think their parents may support that.
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I don't like this. Kids are just going to feel that what they are doing is not approved in the community and thus start to feel bad about their gaming.
Better approach would be to increase age limits on games that provoke to play many hours a day.
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I can't imagine this will change much; parents are usually able to decide what their kids do & when, anyways. This just makes it easier.
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Korean kids are just in school for an absurd amount of time, 15 hrs doesnt = 15 hours of reading a book or something. At a certain point, you'll just tune out and sleep with your eyes open (or closed). The real problem is the amount of study asian kids (i really only know sk and china situation) go through. It's really not that much more productive than western education, and it really cuts down on developing skills that don't involve endless cramming. In some situations, it's not just gaming that's being targeted, children who spend time involved in art or music often have to quit becuase "three hours painting could be 3 hours studying math".
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On July 13 2012 17:48 bailando wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 09:14 Levi Deninard wrote:
While that is true, I think the argument above about how intense the competition is over there and how much pressure comes from family, shows that their may actually be a problem. Work your kid 15 hours a day without any breaks for relaxation or enjoyment and eventually they'll just turn off their brains and refuse to learn. I think thats what the western world always thinks..."asians work 20 hours a day and sleep 4". I mean look at it this way: Maru is the youngest GSL player (i believe). If he works 14 hours a day for school....and lets say sleeps 6-8 hours theres not much time left especially when he comes home at 6 or 8 pm. You cant tell me he is GSL Code S when he has only about 4 hours time a day and sometimes no time at all to play! get outa here! If a 14 year old can make it to the highest and most prestigious (hope i wrote that right lol) SC2 tournemant...well fuck me he got time. I believe pro gamers are just horribly bad at school. At least most of them. especially IF we go that way you all think that theres so much pressure. Well guess what, its not bad to cut gaming if you can get a decent degree for your later life. Just my oppinion on that. Hope you understand.
Degree won't do you any good , or at least that's what i heard from most of the adults nowdays . Everyone in the world has gotten smarter , degree is getting more and more common nowdays . Guys i know told me they struggled getting a job after getting a degree , saying people are favouring those with experiences .
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On July 15 2012 16:06 DeltaSigmaL wrote:
Korean kids are just in school for an absurd amount of time, 15 hrs doesnt = 15 hours of reading a book or something. At a certain point, you'll just tune out and sleep with your eyes open (or closed). The real problem is the amount of study asian kids (i really only know sk and china situation) go through. It's really not that much more productive than western education, and it really cuts down on developing skills that don't involve endless cramming. In some situations, it's not just gaming that's being targeted, children who spend time involved in art or music often have to quit becuase "three hours painting could be 3 hours studying math".
Koreans aren't studying for like 15-20 hours straight unlike what most people believe. What Koreans mainly focus on, is preparing for the superexam that pretty much determines your future in Korea. School rarely helps, so if you go to some schools, students are talking nonstop and ignoring the teacher the whole time or sleeping (although when the teacher calls on the student, they can somehow answer the question perfectly). What they do after school is go to the hagwons that focus on the exam itself, so they do more of their real studying outside of school. This is the main problem, they either need to change the exam or change what is taught in schools. While it does facilitate intense studying and helps the country a lot due to these hard working individuals, it does cause high suicide rates and childhoods that are empty (although many parents spoil their children immensely during their youth to give them some happiness). But the results do speak for themselves, although it could use some modification.
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On July 13 2012 06:39 bailando wrote:
I dont see a problem in parents deciding the playtime of their kids even until they are 18.
Dont come up with "free mind" and shit. Parents are still the boss if you live under their roof and are underaged.
yeah this is how normal familys should work, but it isnt suppose to be a freaking law!
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On July 13 2012 17:48 bailando wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 09:14 Levi Deninard wrote:
While that is true, I think the argument above about how intense the competition is over there and how much pressure comes from family, shows that their may actually be a problem. Work your kid 15 hours a day without any breaks for relaxation or enjoyment and eventually they'll just turn off their brains and refuse to learn. I think thats what the western world always thinks..."asians work 20 hours a day and sleep 4". I mean look at it this way: Maru is the youngest GSL player (i believe). If he works 14 hours a day for school....and lets say sleeps 6-8 hours theres not much time left especially when he comes home at 6 or 8 pm. You cant tell me he is GSL Code S when he has only about 4 hours time a day and sometimes no time at all to play! get outa here! If a 14 year old can make it to the highest and most prestigious (hope i wrote that right lol) SC2 tournemant...well fuck me he got time. I believe pro gamers are just horribly bad at school. At least most of them. especially IF we go that way you all think that theres so much pressure. Well guess what, its not bad to cut gaming if you can get a decent degree for your later life. Just my oppinion on that. Hope you understand.
Maru dropped out of school to go full time pro gamer. That's why he is able to play at a Code S level, plus his youth affords him plenty of speed and energy plus his brain is still developing so he can REALLY learn Starcraft. Your ability to learn from experience is incredible when you're so young. But yeah, my main point is he doesn't attend school.
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Seriously, who must die to stop stupid people from believing there is such thing as gaming addiction. How did north america combat smoking? They put pictures of charcoaled up lungs on the packs. If they really believe games can be addicting just put a picture of the fucking ugliest nerd you can find on the sc2 box instead of jim raynor or something.
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how in the world are you supposed to enforce a law that mandates the amount of time that children spend playing video games?
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What a bass ackwrards law. Instead of doing the parenting, lets have settings to do it for us. More and more separation in this technological age, even within a family:/, doesn't bode well for the future.
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This is so sad, i thought the koreans was ahead of other countries of thinking about gaming but when i read about this i dont know anymore. If i couldent play at the times i wanted to i would probably have a much more boring life. I think things like alcohol is going to be big over there for people under the age of 18 :/
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On July 12 2012 09:52 KamMoye wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 00:39 NEOtheONE wrote:On July 12 2012 00:10 KamMoye wrote:On July 12 2012 00:04 NEOtheONE wrote:
The DSM is the authority on the matters of diagnosing. You cannot just point to some research and say "see there is such a thing" because in order for something to be an "addiction" it has to have measurable and objective diagnostic criteria that is recognized by the authorities in the field, in this case Counselors, Psychologists, and Psychiatrists.
Did you even read the link? What understanding did you take away from it? Here's anothe one: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/cupids-poisoned-arrow/201205/porn-and-dsm-5-are-sexual-politics-play Yes I did read the first site you linked, and what I took away from it was these were the results of 4 studies, which you always have to take with a grain of salt. I do agree that there is better evidence for sex related addictions, but these are not the same as general internet or video game problems. Sex triggers more hormones and areas of the brain. Of course one could also then argue that there is such a thing as "love addiction" that is being addicted to falling in "love," Which would really be an addiction to the combination of hormones that occur when you fall in love. The problem is that you can quickly start diagnosing anything and everything. Read through the DSM and you'll probably find you somewhat meet the criteria for a wide variety of disorders. Ultimately, it comes down to whether the behavior truly impairs the individual from functioning "normally" in society. The problem of course is that "normal functioning" is a subjective and relative term and is being made by a society that itself is sick with problems of its own. The disorders related to the Internet and gaming are in the appendices under things that need to be researched for good reason. The Internet has only been in existence for about 3 decades, and the research into it and possible addiction is far more recent. The last thing we need in Psychology and Counseling is another blanket diagnosis being applied without adequate research into it. Is overuse of the Internet and video games dysfunctional, yes it certainly is. But are these primary problems or simply symptoms of larger problems related to brain development, social functioning, peer problems, et cetera; this remains to be seen. EDIT: also 10 total studies on the subject matter of Internet Addiction as of a post made in March of this year is a rather low number, and by low number I mean you should be hesitant to jump to any conclusions until more research is done. There are many ways to inflate results of studies, and you also have to consider sample size and ethnic diversity as well. In order for these problems to be the primary problem you have to eliminate the other issues that could precipitate someone turning to the Internet and video games as a way to escape. These include problems interacting with peers, problems with brain development, genetic disorders, problems in the family life, problems with interacting with people they are sexually attracted to, et cetera. The point you do not seem to be understanding is that addiction is not just something you can start "quickly diagnosing." It is something that manifests via physical changes in your brain, most notably by the protein Delta FosB. Show nested quote +In any case, the fundamental brain changes for all addictions—both behavioral and chemical—are so similar that addiction specialists now consider all addiction to be one disease rather than many different diseases. Whether someone is diagnosed with gambling, videogaming or Internet addiction, it indicates that a specific collection of anatomical and physiological abnormalities has occurred (with minor variations).
Indeed, the same molecular switch triggers addiction-related brain changes in all addicts. The master switch that triggers these changes is the protein DeltaFosB. Both chronic, high level consumption of natural rewards (sex, sugar, high-fat) and chronic administration of virtually any drug of abuse cause DeltaFosB to accumulate in the reward circuit, thus triggering a cascade of further brain changes.
It would be interesting, but redundant, to isolate particular types of Internet addiction in order to establish the reality of any one of them, including porn addiction. You can view these "new" addictions through physical means. An unwillingness to do that is an example of the politics at play.
I get where you are going with physical changes in the brain, but the problem is the general public does not understand that. Furthermore, how do you determine whether someone needs the brain scan to check to see if he/she is an addict to begin with? I'm not denying that there is a point where you can go so far that addicted is the only way to describe it. I'm saying that the problem lies in what happens up until that point, which is the topic at hand. What constitutes problematic gaming? The answer is that it is very subjective. If you play SC2 8-12+ hours a day and are a pro-gamer are you addicted or at risk for becoming addicted? If you play 5-6 hours a day and work full time are you addicted or at risk of becoming addicted? If you play 4 hours a day go to school part time and work full time are you addicted or at risk of addiction?
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EPT
