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Read Full Article at: http://robotsgonebad.com/2012/07/south-korea-implements-new-anti-game-addiction-law/
So I came across this article in my chat with some of my friends. We've heard a lot of discussion about South Korea trying to limit gaming for children under the age of 18, but looks like this is going to be quite a bummer if kids are limited to the amount of games they can play. Do you guys think this will affect the future generation of Korean StarCraft players?
What are your thoughts?
*EDIT LINK FIXED
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There is already a law that limits the available time for playing MMOs (restricts 8 hours a day or something like that). I'm not really surprised that they're taking more action against gaming.
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http://robotsgonebad.com/2012/07/south-korea-implements-new-anti-game-addiction-law/
South Korea is going to start letting parents decide when their kids can game.
In a move to combat online game addiction, the country’s Ministry of Culture, Sports, and Tourism has, of July 1st, implemented a system that prevents children under the age of 18 from playing games during a period that their parents or legal representatives set.
Over 100 game titles will be added to this banlist, and some notable games included are League of Legends, Aion and StarCraft 2. The banlist is part of a new and complicated law in Korea against online gaming addiction.
Games in the ‘Selection System of Game Availability Period’ are online titles, and must be made by companies that have over 300 employees and make more than US$27 million in annual revenues. Games like Diablo 3 and Blade&Soul aren’t included in the banlist, as only players aged 18 and over can play those titles in South Korea anyway.
We’ll probably start seeing other countries overtake the South Koreans in StarCraft 2 soon, then.
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*shrug*
just mandating child time locks
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Implying that there is such a thing as gaming addiction.
EDIT: Probably a bit late, but it looks like people didn't twig onto the humor in what I said. Guess it's just veiled really, almost too well.
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On July 04 2012 02:55 dudeman001 wrote: "... We’ll probably start seeing other countries overtake the South Koreans in StarCraft 2 soon, then."
lol what a drama queen statement, no way is that going to happen
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On July 04 2012 03:00 Matuka wrote: Implying that there is such a thing as gaming addiction.
There is, tho.
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What's with this recent trend world-wide of changing instances where people "prefer to spend significant amounts of their day doing task/event A" suddenly to "omguraddicted to task/event A"?
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On July 04 2012 03:06 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 03:00 Matuka wrote: Implying that there is such a thing as gaming addiction. There is, tho. People can die of gaming addiction.
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On July 04 2012 03:00 Matuka wrote: Implying that there is such a thing as gaming addiction.
Did you see that thread that was posted here just a few days ago by that guy who has been playing for 2 years, still in plat league, who quit his job and everything. Thats an addiction lol.
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On July 04 2012 03:07 sCCrooked wrote: What's with this recent trend world-wide of changing instances where people "prefer to spend significant amounts of their day doing task/event A" suddenly to "omguraddicted to task/event A"?
Because those people treat these events as a basic for survival (which is scientifically incorrect) therefore creates problems in the society.
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They having gaming rehabs in Korea from what I've heard, but their starcraft players will still shine
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On July 04 2012 03:00 Matuka wrote: Implying that there is such a thing as gaming addiction.
there is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_addiction
this doesn't seem too bad, does it? i mean, the parents decide how much and when their child plays, and most parents regulate their childrens consume of games anyway. as they should. i wouldn't want a 13-year-old to play 8 hours a day. seriously.
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Whole article (lol all 150 words of it)
South Korea is going to start letting parents decide when their kids can game.
In a move to combat online game addiction, the country’s Ministry of Culture, Sports, and Tourism has, of July 1st, implemented a system that prevents children under the age of 18 from playing games during a period that their parents or legal representatives set.
Over 100 game titles will be added to this banlist, and some notable games included are League of Legends, Aion and StarCraft 2. The banlist is part of a new and complicated law in Korea against online gaming addiction.
Games in the ‘Selection System of Game Availability Period’ are online titles, and must be made by companies that have over 300 employees and make more than US$27 million in annual revenues. Games like Diablo 3 and Blade&Soul aren’t included in the banlist, as only players aged 18 and over can play those titles in South Korea anyway.
We’ll probably start seeing other countries overtake the South Koreans in StarCraft 2 soon, then.
Yeah this is sensationalist garbage and the thread title is misleading as fuck all.
1) It's an extension of laws that are already in place. 2) It's solely focused on helping parents control their childrens gaming habits by mandating parent locks.
So, with my biggest WOW_ITS_NOTHING.jpg face: Wow, it's absolutely nothing.
On July 04 2012 03:00 Matuka wrote: Implying that there is such a thing as gaming addiction. Keep the >>>>>>http://boards.4chan.org/v/ nonsense out of here.
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I don't see the big deal, it just means that kids can't play at times their parents don't want them to, right? So it's just a way for parents to enforce the rules they've set. I'm not sure why anyone would be bothered by that, unless they're encouraging kids to play when their parents say not to.
If parents are too strict with it in korea, the solution shouldn't be disobeying them, but rather showing the why it might be okay to play games more than that.
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On July 04 2012 03:00 Matuka wrote: Implying that there is such a thing as gaming addiction. I see where you are coming from, but you can get addicted to anything. So there definitely is such a thing as video game addiction.
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since it's parents or representatives who set the rules, if you are under a certain team and you actually earn something with your play/or simply are good at it, this law does not affect them at all. Theoretically it's possible that a person with not that much talent or something gets amazing at the game due to 16 hour/day playtime, even though he's still under 18. Not that i see such a thing happening anyway.
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And how are they going to prevent people from playing games?
You can not simpy stop starcraft!
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On July 04 2012 03:11 Skamtet wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 03:00 Matuka wrote: Implying that there is such a thing as gaming addiction. I see where you are coming from, but you can get addicted to anything. So there definitely is such a thing as video game addiction.
Actually, there really isn't such a thing. The only "addiction" that's ever been "documented" is entirely based on social constructs. There is no actual psychological diagnosis for video game addictions - instances where it's been "reported" can be summarized as "this person was really, really, really stupid".
People can stop spreading around media sensationalism now >.> Yes, there is such a thing as playing too many video games (dependent on the individual), but no, it's not an addiction.
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Oh no! What effect will this have on esports!?!? + Show Spoiler +From what I've heard, gaming is a pretty big problem in SK. No harm in trying to deal with it.
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Blizzard has all these features in their BNet 2.0 games, but most parents aren't educated enough to know that they exist or even use them.
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On July 04 2012 03:07 blubbdavid wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 03:06 Xiphos wrote:On July 04 2012 03:00 Matuka wrote: Implying that there is such a thing as gaming addiction. There is, tho. People can die of gaming addiction.
Negative, I have only heard of people dying of stupidity while excessively gaming.
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Like 3 people have died from gaming. Legitimately. Addiction or not, didn't matter. Not drinking or eating while you game for hours upon hours isn't addiction: its stupid. Anyone else who dies doing it just has a heart attack while gaming, that's not dying of gaming addiction, that dying of a heart attack.
No one dies of a video game addiction, don't say something so ridiculous.
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I'm pretty sure you can already do this in Blizzard games, under the parental control options in your B.net account.
I'm not surprised about this coming from Korea.
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So... this is just parental controls? :|
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Good. More legislation is needed to keep these kids in order.
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I'm in no way an anti-government crackpot, but seriously? Laws to moderate what should be the parents' job? This is silly. It's in no way the government's job to raise the kids.
If they need a law to adress this problem, get a law that targets the parents who neglect the upbringing of the kids. They're the obvious problem.
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On July 04 2012 03:09 juked wrote: They having gaming rehabs in Korea from what I've heard, but their starcraft players will still shine
This is what pops in my head when I think about gaming rehab:
<Phil (Member)> Hi, everyone. My name is Phil. <All Members> Hi, Phil! <Collin (Counselor)> Now, Phil why have you joined us today? <Phil (Member)> I... *looks around nervously* <Dan (Member)> *gives encouraging look* Its ok, you can be honest here. <Phil (Member)> I... *says rest under his breath* was an avid starcraft addict... <Collin (Counselor)> Phil, could you say that a little louder please? <Phil (Member)> *speaks up louder* I said I was an avid starcraft addict. I-I used to get so addicted, I went onto this mode called "online ladder". I... I couldn't even stop playing because after 3 interruptions I would have to yell at my door that I couldn't come answer because I couldn't pause my game. Think I spent nearly 5 hours a day trying to increase my rank. Anyways uh... that's why I'm here. *Everyone claps gives Phil a hug* <Collin (Counselor)> We're glad to have you here, Phil.
Somehow it just doesn't sound as bad as the heroin/crack/alcohol addicts' stories coming from the other rooms.
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we've had this in the US for quite a while for most online games
imo, its kind of ridiculous to implement laws to stop addiction, why is it bad to be addicted to things? why do we feel the need to control people? society :-(
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On July 04 2012 03:31 CaptainCrush wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 03:07 blubbdavid wrote:On July 04 2012 03:06 Xiphos wrote:On July 04 2012 03:00 Matuka wrote: Implying that there is such a thing as gaming addiction. There is, tho. People can die of gaming addiction. Negative, I have only heard of people dying of stupidity while excessively gaming. How can someone die of stupidity? And if YOU only have heard of some who died of stupidity, then how does that make my point negative?
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If a kid doesn't listen to his parents about when he's not allowed to play video games, I don't think the fact that there is now a law saying "you must listen to your parents about when you're not allowed to play video games" will change much.
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On July 04 2012 03:59 blubbdavid wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 03:31 CaptainCrush wrote:On July 04 2012 03:07 blubbdavid wrote:On July 04 2012 03:06 Xiphos wrote:On July 04 2012 03:00 Matuka wrote: Implying that there is such a thing as gaming addiction. There is, tho. People can die of gaming addiction. Negative, I have only heard of people dying of stupidity while excessively gaming. How can someone die of stupidity? And if YOU only have heard of some who died of stupidity, then how does that make my point negative?
It was a joke that you clearly missed....
My point is that nobody has ever been addicted to video games, and anyone claiming to be is just an idiot. Furthermore anyone that ignores their own body over a period of DAYS, to the point of death, is just incredibly stupid.
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On July 04 2012 03:11 Probe1 wrote:Whole article (lol all 150 words of it) Show nested quote +South Korea is going to start letting parents decide when their kids can game.
In a move to combat online game addiction, the country’s Ministry of Culture, Sports, and Tourism has, of July 1st, implemented a system that prevents children under the age of 18 from playing games during a period that their parents or legal representatives set.
Over 100 game titles will be added to this banlist, and some notable games included are League of Legends, Aion and StarCraft 2. The banlist is part of a new and complicated law in Korea against online gaming addiction.
Games in the ‘Selection System of Game Availability Period’ are online titles, and must be made by companies that have over 300 employees and make more than US$27 million in annual revenues. Games like Diablo 3 and Blade&Soul aren’t included in the banlist, as only players aged 18 and over can play those titles in South Korea anyway.
We’ll probably start seeing other countries overtake the South Koreans in StarCraft 2 soon, then. Yeah this is sensationalist garbage and the thread title is misleading as fuck all. 1) It's an extension of laws that are already in place. 2) It's solely focused on helping parents control their childrens gaming habits by mandating parent locks. So, with my biggest WOW_ITS_NOTHING.jpg face: Wow, it's absolutely nothing. Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 03:00 Matuka wrote: Implying that there is such a thing as gaming addiction. Keep the >>>>>>http://boards.4chan.org/v/ nonsense out of here.
4chan isn't the only website where you can imply things, and it certainly wasn't the first.
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On July 04 2012 03:59 blubbdavid wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 03:31 CaptainCrush wrote:On July 04 2012 03:07 blubbdavid wrote:On July 04 2012 03:06 Xiphos wrote:On July 04 2012 03:00 Matuka wrote: Implying that there is such a thing as gaming addiction. There is, tho. People can die of gaming addiction. Negative, I have only heard of people dying of stupidity while excessively gaming. How can someone die of stupidity? And if YOU only have heard of some who died of stupidity, then how does that make my point negative?
People die of stupidity pretty often actually.
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On July 04 2012 03:07 blubbdavid wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 03:06 Xiphos wrote:On July 04 2012 03:00 Matuka wrote: Implying that there is such a thing as gaming addiction. There is, tho. People can die of gaming addiction. People can die going down the stairs. So what's youir point?
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On July 04 2012 03:58 PhiliBiRD wrote: we've had this in the US for quite a while for most online games
imo, its kind of ridiculous to implement laws to stop addiction, why is it bad to be addicted to things? why do we feel the need to control people? society :-(
They're not implementing laws to control people, they're implementing laws to control children. There is a difference. If my parents hadn't cared, I probably would have forgone school for video games as a teenager too. Kids aren't supposed to be smart, it's why we have parents, and when parents don't work, the law to make sure they reach adulthood with a basic skillset for survival in the real world and no permanent damage.
I almost flunked my second semester of college because I was playing waaaaaaay too much WoW. You don't have to call it addiction if there isn't a physiological response to the activity, but it can be just as destructive if you give up on your responsibilities and relationships.
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I like how at the end of this article it says:
We’ll probably start seeing other countries overtake the South Koreans in StarCraft 2 soon, then. I dont even think thats a possibility at this point. Soon is not the word, the words maybe and eventually are much better to be used. Generally speaking the skill inthe foreigner scenes is weaker than the powerfully established KR Ladder. Oh well I guess its just a poorly written article over all, with a writer who doesnt really know the SC scene like we do. I wish there were a more indepth article to flesh out some of the details on this subject.
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Board was probably all bw fans
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On July 04 2012 03:00 Matuka wrote: Implying that there is such a thing as gaming addiction. someone doesn't understand how the mind works lol. You can be addicted to anything.
Is it really that bad in korea? i mean why is the gov't stepping in.. this is a parental issue 100%
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I'm now 20 and have been addicted to online games since i was like 11 (in the summer when I had no school I would spend 10+ hours a day on the computer, even on school days I would still play at least 4 hours per day), my parents were against it and regulated it at times, but in the end I still managed to play a lot.
Do I think I wasted my teenage years? No. I still had friends that I went out with occasionally, and a few girlfriends. I got good marks at school, got good A levels and got into a good university. I had a hell of a lot more fun playing games than I would have playing sports or other normal activities, and gained a lot of life experience through online games (meeting people, making clans, hosting my own servers etc). I remember the pure excitement of playing my first MMO, and sneaking downstairs at 3am when my parents were in bed to participate in a clan war. Those were good times.
If anything, the negative effects of playing a lot of games have been that I don't really fit in to the real life 'system'. Although I got into a good university, I dropped out and have never had a job. I am now trying to become a professional music producer, but I find it hard to work at something long-term (I can sometimes do months of hard work at something, then get bored and move on to something else). I never felt motivated to get a normal job.
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I actually support this law. Video games have no benefits to life and is a time dump. Kids should be outside being active. There are exceptions to every rule, but video games don't exactly inspire kids to be active and be the best to their human ability.
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On July 04 2012 03:07 blubbdavid wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 03:06 Xiphos wrote:On July 04 2012 03:00 Matuka wrote: Implying that there is such a thing as gaming addiction. There is, tho. People can die of gaming addiction.
If you're talking about the people who die from DVT while gaming the same thing can happen during long airplane flights.
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Uh...
Can't the parents do this already?
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On July 04 2012 04:54 sc14s wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 03:00 Matuka wrote: Implying that there is such a thing as gaming addiction. someone doesn't understand how the mind works lol. You can be addicted to anything. Is it really that bad in korea? i mean why is the gov't stepping in.. this is a parental issue 100%
"the world is an addiction"
-Abraham Lincoln
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As someone who is still addicted to video games and has seen it negatively impact my relationships, I support common sense laws that discourage it without restricting freedom too much. This is a positive thing overall, even if it means there might not be any more Babys or Leenocks.
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On July 04 2012 04:54 sc14s wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 03:00 Matuka wrote: Implying that there is such a thing as gaming addiction. someone doesn't understand how the mind works lol. You can be addicted to anything. Is it really that bad in korea? i mean why is the gov't stepping in.. this is a parental issue 100% While I agree the gov't should have better things to do than enforce how children are restricted when it's the responsibility of the parent, the government of a nation is responsible for the wellbeing of its future generation. I don't know how bad gaming addiction is to the point that it has a significant negative impact in SK, but there definitely is a tipping point where some level of government needs to step in.
Just like how in NA, we have laws enforced that gives children the right to elementary (and higher) education while taking away their right to consume alcohol, it's the government and lawmakers stepping in and setting the foundation for how a parent should raise their child.
If the job market is declining in new qualified people because 30% (some random arbitrary number) of the youth dropped out of highschool to play video games on their parents' expense, then some authority, that is not the parents, needs to improve that as the parents are being terribly irresponsible.
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On July 04 2012 04:55 Mongoose wrote: I'm now 20 and have been addicted to online games since i was like 11 (in the summer when I had no school I would spend 10+ hours a day on the computer, even on school days I would still play at least 4 hours per day), my parents were against it and regulated it at times, but in the end I still managed to play a lot.
Do I think I wasted my teenage years? No. I still had friends that I went out with occasionally, and a few girlfriends. I got good marks at school, got good A levels and got into a good university. I had a hell of a lot more fun playing games than I would have playing sports or other normal activities, and gained a lot of life experience through online games (meeting people, making clans, hosting my own servers etc). I remember the pure excitement of playing my first MMO, and sneaking downstairs at 3am when my parents were in bed to participate in a clan war. Those were good times.
If anything, the negative effects of playing a lot of games have been that I don't really fit in to the real life 'system'. Although I got into a good university, I dropped out and have never had a job. I am now trying to become a professional music producer, but I find it hard to work at something long-term (I can sometimes do months of hard work at something, then get bored and move on to something else). I never felt motivated to get a normal job.
Thats hardly more an addiction than "hanging with friends" or "turning the lights on when you get home". An addiction is when your life turns completely to trash because you simply cannot stop doing something. Meaning living in your mothers basement till you're 50, no job, no education, no friends, etc. All because you can't stop doing a certain thing.
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On July 04 2012 03:31 CaptainCrush wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 03:07 blubbdavid wrote:On July 04 2012 03:06 Xiphos wrote:On July 04 2012 03:00 Matuka wrote: Implying that there is such a thing as gaming addiction. There is, tho. People can die of gaming addiction. Negative, I have only heard of people dying of stupidity while excessively gaming.
You could say the same for any other kind of non-physical addiction. It's always easiest (also the most useless) to just call people stupid.
On topic, I'm unsure what to think of this. I think a lot of responsibility is on the game developers themselves, especially when it comes to "addictive" progression-based mechanics that encourage players to keep playing beyond what they would normally enjoy and be comfortable with. Actually, if I remember correctly Korea recently also had a law dealing specifically with this.
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On July 04 2012 03:07 blubbdavid wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 03:06 Xiphos wrote:On July 04 2012 03:00 Matuka wrote: Implying that there is such a thing as gaming addiction. There is, tho. People can die of gaming addiction.
People can die of anything. Heck, people drown. Ban water?
Parents should be monitoring their children, period.
Also, OP's link still doesn't work
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OP needs more information imo.. Link didn't work for me either.
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I think gaming is still sort of new to many parents and society moves so fast these days that parents are always behind on what their kids are doing. I know everyone always blames parents and says it's their responsibility, but a lot of parents just aren't informed and also have no idea on how to have any sort of control over what their kids are doing. It's an area where the younger generation has an advantage, in any case, I know I was always able to sneak in gaming time despite my parents not liking it. If they can give parents tools to set very clear limits/controls on their child's gaming habits, I don't think that's a bad thing, necessarily, even if it does probably add costs to designing games and if it's implemented in a way that infringes on other qualities that'll be bothersome.
To be honest, I think that in retrospect I would have preferred my parents taking a higher interest in how I would spend my time when I was younger and would have prevented me from spending so much time gaming. One tends to not make the best decisions at age 14 or 15, I guess.
I also want to add that my parents are university educated, yet had no clue on how to set effective limits on anything. My mother would scream about disconnecting internet, but then I'd just say I needed it for school, or I'd play some offline game or my brothers would protest about it etc. They have no effective way to enforce any of these things, unless they're smart, and an official "government approved way of limiting your kids gaming time" isn't so bad as long as it's an effective enforcement that doesn't force e.g. 'always online' gameplay.
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On July 04 2012 03:03 Jonoman92 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 02:55 dudeman001 wrote: "... We’ll probably start seeing other countries overtake the South Koreans in StarCraft 2 soon, then." lol what a drama queen statement, no way is that going to happen Definitely won't be any young, flash-like players anyway. No parent would allow them to play enough to have a chance at getting good.
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Admittedly, people can't die from addiction itself, or stupidity. It's probably death by exhaustion. I made a point, so what's your problem jumping on me? You guys haven't been in Korea and seen things there.
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Koreans needed a nerf anyways.
Fix the link dude, it doesn't work
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Best thing to happen to foreign players in SC2 in a while =P
In all honesty this law's terrible and draconian and won't actually do anything if the SK youth are half as tech savvy as their American counterparts in circumventing blocks.
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On July 04 2012 05:17 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 03:07 blubbdavid wrote:On July 04 2012 03:06 Xiphos wrote:On July 04 2012 03:00 Matuka wrote: Implying that there is such a thing as gaming addiction. There is, tho. People can die of gaming addiction. People can die of anything. Heck, people drown. Ban water? Parents should be monitoring their children, period.
Water may not be banned, but there are usually a lot of rules and restrictions when it comes to things like construction design, urban design, there are rules and services intended to keep people safe on the beach, and so on. TL;DR there's a LOT of stuff in place to help prevent people from drowning, even though avoiding drowning should be fairly straightforward for most people.
It's usually a bad idea to rely on human competence, and human mistake is always likely and happens even to the best. Following good rules is always a lot more simple, straightforward, safe and requires less caution and decision making on behalf of an individual.
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We should ban pens guys. I think everybody around me is addicted to them, I mean they can't stop writing with them! Need to write something? First thing they pick up is a pen.
I guess this law doesn't change much because parents would basically stop their children anyway, but I guess it is a hard restriction for doing something that you enjoy and harm no one else while doing.
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I remember from watching the documentary on the 2005 wcg, Xellos was going on about how his mother tried to stop him playing games, and he had to sneak downstairs at night when his mother was in bed to play. So this shows that kids will get around what their parents want eventually, unless the parent denies all freedom from the kid (which is even worse than letting them play all they want)
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Don't think that the problem is solved just by parents restricting their children. There is a fuckton of PC bangs where the kids can play without parental control. And wtf is up with the bad analogies? Yes, water should be banned, but it is not, because the advantages outweigh the disadvantages by far. Is it the same case with gaming? Analogies are not the way to go in internet discussions, because they often are inaccurate and distort facts by simplifiying them so they favor the standpoint of the one who uses the analogy. Like a wise man once said: Finding proper analogies is as hard as...as...
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That depends on how you interpret the term "addiction". For example, if you see a fat guy do you say he is addicted to eating or that he just does too little exercise? The same could be said for a lot of things, but I'm not going to bring up each example since I would wind up with a wall of text.
Personally I don't think gaming addiction exists and can be cured, and frankly I believe that it's in their culture much like in America with fast food. Allthough this might be a good thing it's about the same as forcing Mc donalds to serve carrots instead of fries in their happy meals, it will just make the kids get there unhealthy food someplace else and won't actually solve the issue.
(Sorry for all the fast food refrences)
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On July 04 2012 03:07 blubbdavid wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 03:06 Xiphos wrote:On July 04 2012 03:00 Matuka wrote: Implying that there is such a thing as gaming addiction. There is, tho. People can die of gaming addiction.
People can die of not eating enough / healthy enough / moving enough / getting enough rest. Every case of 'guy x dies after 3 day straight gaming' is just because they didnt live healthy.
You can't die from gaming nor the addiction
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People can get addicted to just about anything. This law seems kind of drastic though.
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Russian Federation748 Posts
Are cigarettes allowed to sale in South Korea ?
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On July 04 2012 06:22 Kyrillion wrote: Are cigarettes allowed to sale in South Korea ? I doubt they are sold to kids.
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Horrible parenting leads to suicide,(AND is a MUCH MUCH bigger problem) shall we ban that that as well?
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I wonder how kids will react if one of their parents implements this to them lol
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Would not want to grow up in Korea,until i'm 18.
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i wish they would do something about suicide rates rather than fcking video games
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On July 04 2012 03:00 Matuka wrote: Implying that there is such a thing as gaming addiction. LOLOL do you know the game called wow??? well yea that shit was equal to crack for many lost souls haha.(including my self for several years tt)
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I'm mostly just wondering about the circumvention methods.
Also no matter what, the law is giving one individual power to decide what another individual can not do. It'd be weird if your boss suddenly were allowed to prevent you from watching youtube in your personal time. Parent's moderating children is a normal thing though. I know child porn is already moderated by the government, but that's to prevent the spread of abuse to children.
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On July 04 2012 06:40 cmen15 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 03:00 Matuka wrote: Implying that there is such a thing as gaming addiction. LOLOL do you know the game called wow??? well yea that shit was equal to crack for many lost souls haha.(including my self for several years tt)
...No. I bet you it wasn't equal to crack. Merely forsaking "real life" interactions for "virtual" interactions doesn't fit the description of addiction.
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On July 04 2012 05:43 LucidityDark wrote: We should ban pens guys. I think everybody around me is addicted to them, I mean they can't stop writing with them! Need to write something? First thing they pick up is a pen.
I guess this law doesn't change much because parents would basically stop their children anyway, but I guess it is a hard restriction for doing something that you enjoy and harm no one else while doing.
If you look up the definition of addiction you'll realize that you're using the term wrong. People aren't addicted to using pens, its just something that is usually necessary to use when taking notes (etc). Addiction is when a person has an overwhelming psychological compulsion to use/do something, even though continuing to do it has negative consequences in their life (which can take form in a number of ways).
On July 04 2012 06:28 Celadan wrote: Horrible parenting leads to suicide,(AND is a MUCH MUCH bigger problem) shall we ban that that as well?
If the government were capable of banning "horrible parenting" then they probably would. No offense, but if you thought about it for like half a minute you'd realize that regulating how parents interact with their kids would be seriously complicated and horribly intrusive into people's personal rights. Of course the government will try to support organizations that help kids out of child abuse situations, but the government can't do everything.
Also in general determining whether this is an addiction or not isn't that important. Even if kids weren't technically addicted to playing video games, it can still be a form of escapism that is more gratifying than life, which can (and has) led to severe disruptions in their social/academic/work life. For all intents and purposes I think it can become just like an addiction; people would rather play a game because they don't want to face the negative reality of their life. As such it needs to be dealt with just like any other detrimental behaviours (gambling, drinking, overeating, etc.)
Also in response to an earlier comment I'm pretty sure people don't just "forget to eat"...to imagine that happening is mind blowing. Everyone is aware of the signals their body sends them, there is no level of stupidity that could possibly make people forget the feeling of starving hunger and the need to put food in their body, especially when they've been doing it for as long as they've been alive.
It makes more sense to view it in terms of how the feeling of hunger can be blocked or suppressed through an activity which is intensely captivating. If you're really focused in the moment on something that is crucial to you then your brain may be capable of suppressing the hunger signal until that moment has passed. But if gaming continues to be enthralling for longer periods of time, then that hunger signal will always be put to the wayside in favour of more gaming.
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On July 04 2012 03:45 sCCrooked wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 03:09 juked wrote: They having gaming rehabs in Korea from what I've heard, but their starcraft players will still shine This is what pops in my head when I think about gaming rehab: <Phil (Member)> Hi, everyone. My name is Phil. <All Members> Hi, Phil! <Collin (Counselor)> Now, Phil why have you joined us today? <Phil (Member)> I... *looks around nervously* <Dan (Member)> *gives encouraging look* Its ok, you can be honest here. <Phil (Member)> I... *says rest under his breath* was an avid starcraft addict... <Collin (Counselor)> Phil, could you say that a little louder please? <Phil (Member)> *speaks up louder* I said I was an avid starcraft addict. I-I used to get so addicted, I went onto this mode called "online ladder". I... I couldn't even stop playing because after 3 interruptions I would have to yell at my door that I couldn't come answer because I couldn't pause my game. Think I spent nearly 5 hours a day trying to increase my rank. Anyways uh... that's why I'm here. *Everyone claps gives Phil a hug* <Collin (Counselor)> We're glad to have you here, Phil. Somehow it just doesn't sound as bad as the heroin/crack/alcohol addicts' stories coming from the other rooms.
That's because what you describe is not really gaming addiction yet. If you start neglecting things like personal hygiene, sleep, food and work in favor of playing the game and can't stop yourself from doing it, then you are addicted. I reckon the story wouldn't sound all that different from a crack addict's.
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On July 04 2012 03:45 sCCrooked wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 03:09 juked wrote: They having gaming rehabs in Korea from what I've heard, but their starcraft players will still shine This is what pops in my head when I think about gaming rehab: <Phil (Member)> Hi, everyone. My name is Phil. <All Members> Hi, Phil! <Collin (Counselor)> Now, Phil why have you joined us today? <Phil (Member)> I... *looks around nervously* <Dan (Member)> *gives encouraging look* Its ok, you can be honest here. <Phil (Member)> I... *says rest under his breath* was an avid starcraft addict... <Collin (Counselor)> Phil, could you say that a little louder please? <Phil (Member)> *speaks up louder* I said I was an avid starcraft addict. I-I used to get so addicted, I went onto this mode called "online ladder". I... I couldn't even stop playing because after 3 interruptions I would have to yell at my door that I couldn't come answer because I couldn't pause my game. Think I spent nearly 5 hours a day trying to increase my rank. Anyways uh... that's why I'm here. *Everyone claps gives Phil a hug* <Collin (Counselor)> We're glad to have you here, Phil. Somehow it just doesn't sound as bad as the heroin/crack/alcohol addicts' stories coming from the other rooms. What you're describing is olganon.
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On July 04 2012 05:52 blubbdavid wrote:Don't think that the problem is solved just by parents restricting their children. There is a fuckton of PC bangs where the kids can play without parental control.And wtf is up with the bad analogies? Yes, water should be banned, but it is not, because the advantages outweigh the disadvantages by far. Is it the same case with gaming? Analogies are not the way to go in internet discussions, because they often are inaccurate and distort facts by simplifiying them so they favor the standpoint of the one who uses the analogy. Like a wise man once said: On that bolded part: Nope.
Kids won't be able to play in PC Bangs. They will be able to use PCs, but not play those games under the banlist.
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Lol, 8 hours a day is actually a lot, believe it or not. I mean most foreign progamers don't even practice 8 hours a day. However, I wonder how these gaming laws are going to affect the younger progamers in Korea like: Creator, sc, Maru, etc. Are they going to be subject to these laws? Even though they are progamers and make money off SC2?
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On July 04 2012 03:09 Megaliskuu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 03:00 Matuka wrote: Implying that there is such a thing as gaming addiction. Did you see that thread that was posted here just a few days ago by that guy who has been playing for 2 years, still in plat league, who quit his job and everything. Thats an addiction lol. Quit his job for two years to play SC2 and still in plat? Doesn't sound like we lost the technology for interplanetary travel there... I'm all for limiting playtime for kids under 18 as long as it's reasonable and can't be abused. Unfortunately these kinds of laws tend to go too far in the other direction...
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to clear up, most korean internet games (including sites such as naver, cyworld, b.net, etc.) require login and those logins(accounts) require korean social security number to register and the korean social security number shows the person's age and sex. therefore, it can be regulated through KSSN, such as not allowing certain age group unable to access something through the account during certain time or condition.
note: its illegal to forge this information....but not impossible, i used one (kssn generator) for ongamenet.com long ago. but i also noticed it picked up fake kssn and didn't allow registration on other sites.
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[]Phase[] Belgium. July 04 2012 06:11 People can die of not eating enough / healthy enough / moving enough / getting enough rest. Every case of 'guy x dies after 3 day straight gaming' is just because they didnt live healthy.
You can't die from gaming nor the addiction
CaptainCrush United States. July 04 2012 04:06. On July 04 2012 03:59 blubbdavid wrote: Show nested quote +
How can someone die of stupidity? And if YOU only have heard of some who died of stupidity, then how does that make my point negative?
It was a joke that you clearly missed....
My point is that nobody has ever been addicted to video games, and anyone claiming to be is just an idiot. Furthermore anyone that ignores their own body over a period of DAYS, to the point of death, is just incredibly stupid.
Not sure if i did the quote or link thing right, this is my 1st post.
Imo gaming addiction is real. Regardless of weather or not some one thinks that people die because their own stupidity and not because of an addiction. Its still real, and doesn't negate the fact that it happens. My roommate thinks that alcoholism is a joke, but he's an alcoholic, so what does he know. Addiction doesn't always effect yourself. Attached is a link to a news story where a Korean couple's baby died while they where taking care of their virtual baby and its not the only case of this happening either. While yes imo the OP does seem a little overboard that a law needs to be made for children to listen to their parents. Maybe you don't have a personality that allows yourself to be easily addicted to something, but that doenst makeit stupid or not real.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8551122.stm
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Korea: Decades of jail for somebody telling officers you smoke pot. Mandatory military service. Laws forbidding video games. Am I missing any other gems?
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I still don't understand how half the threads about South Korean teenagers are about having overbearing parents that force them to study endlessly and do well in school and the other half are about teenagers that have video game addiction and stay up all night playing video games. Are these two distinct groups of people? Because I don't see how they could overlap.
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So from how I read this it allows a parent to do his or her job more effectively? It's not like the government is trying to limit all children from an activity, it's giving the parents a choice. Why would people be against giving parents helpful way to monitor their children?
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On July 04 2012 06:02 Parskatt wrote:That depends on how you interpret the term "addiction". For example, if you see a fat guy do you say he is addicted to eating or that he just does too little exercise? The same could be said for a lot of things, but I'm not going to bring up each example since I would wind up with a wall of text. Personally I don't think gaming addiction exists and can be cured, and frankly I believe that it's in their culture much like in America with fast food. Allthough this might be a good thing it's about the same as forcing Mc donalds to serve carrots instead of fries in their happy meals, it will just make the kids get there unhealthy food someplace else and won't actually solve the issue. (Sorry for all the fast food refrences)
You don't believe someone who is overweight is addicted to food first glance nor do I believe someone is addicted to gaming because they play games a lot at first glance.
Doesn't mean there aren't fat people who are addicted to food and gamers who are addicted to games. Sure, it's not a physical addiction (although you could make a case for it with adrenaline and other stuff your brain does to you), but it's an addiction nonetheless.
You know what else is (barely) physical? Smoking. You go cold turkey that shit is out of you in a day, so why do people have such a tough time quitting smoking...? They're addicted to it, mentally.
On July 04 2012 07:45 rogzardo wrote: Korea: Decades of jail for somebody telling officers you smoke pot. Mandatory military service. Laws forbidding video games. Am I missing any other gems?
Maybe you should spout out more sensationalist news titles. I'm sure no other country has any stories like this. I don't believe there is anything wrong with mandatory military service, but that's for another thread. As for "Laws forbidding video games." Did you even read the article?
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Someone should fix the title since people aren't really smart enough to read the article.
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Sub-18 yo kids not being allowed to play unless parents say yes? What actual new powers did the parents actualyl get? Havent they always been able to disallow their kids to play while they're not yet 18?
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On July 04 2012 03:31 CaptainCrush wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 03:07 blubbdavid wrote:On July 04 2012 03:06 Xiphos wrote:On July 04 2012 03:00 Matuka wrote: Implying that there is such a thing as gaming addiction. There is, tho. People can die of gaming addiction. Negative, I have only heard of people dying of stupidity while excessively gaming.
You are short sighted since you think your unqualified opinion is more valid than research which has been done on videogame addiction
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On July 04 2012 06:54 Zeke50100 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 06:40 cmen15 wrote:On July 04 2012 03:00 Matuka wrote: Implying that there is such a thing as gaming addiction. LOLOL do you know the game called wow??? well yea that shit was equal to crack for many lost souls haha.(including my self for several years tt) ...No. I bet you it wasn't equal to crack. Merely forsaking "real life" interactions for "virtual" interactions doesn't fit the description of addiction. actually i dropped out of school (1st yr college) and quit my job because of the game so yes it can be equal to crack in my estimation.
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there is no such thing as addiction a better term is dependence, useually they depend on (insert classic example) in order to deal with problems in their lives.
e.g. abusive household therfore games = escapism or a coping mechanism well thats how it was for me
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On July 04 2012 08:18 cristo1122 wrote: there is no such thing as addiction a better term is dependence, useually they depend on (insert classic example) in order to deal with problems in their lives.
e.g. abusive household therfore games = escapism or a coping mechanism well thats how it was for me
You're turning this into a semantic argument. Dependence is a large part of the term addiction.
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the parents are deciding when they can play. no biggie. just lets parents have means to keep their kids from gaming.
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Wow, darn...
I thought banlist meant no SC2 at all, but it just means that SC2 is one game where the parents can restrict their kids from playing right?
I don't quite understand this law then. Could parents not previously already decide when their kids play? I mean that's parenting right? xD
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hah they think this will stop kids playing? Lawlz.
Most parents don't realise that the kids have their parents ID numbers registered to websites, and when they're blocked off their own account, they log into their parents and play. It may be 'illegal' but fuck, kids gotta game. As a teacher here I think the kids should be allowed to play more games as a way to relax. All this law means is overbearing parents will completely STOP their children playing games, forcing them to study etc which is seriously a bigger problem than gaming in my eyes.
When I eventually have a kid here, my kid will be allowed to play games as long as they like, providing they do their homework and their grades are high. I won't be an inactive parent which is what most Koreans are, I will actually take an interest in my childs activities and monitor and look after them myself
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Because of the problems that SK has had so many times with addiction to gaming, I am not surprised at this at all.
If it's not all that surprising to hear about someone die in a PC Bang from gaming for too long, then something has to be done. :/
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On July 04 2012 03:09 Megaliskuu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 03:00 Matuka wrote: Implying that there is such a thing as gaming addiction. Did you see that thread that was posted here just a few days ago by that guy who has been playing for 2 years, still in plat league, who quit his job and everything. Thats an addiction lol. he was moreso watching then playing though. 3000 games total played on a single account is nothing. i have 3 accounts with that many games played and im far from addicted.
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On July 04 2012 03:07 HaXXspetten wrote: Ruining esports
Actually this is a step towards better Foreigner competitiveness.
Don't know if it will actually offset the Korean advantages of infrastructure and expertise in running progaming teams, but it's something.
As for the law itself I've heard the situation in Korea is not really comparable to other countries so I'll refrain from posting my uneducated opinion on it.
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On July 04 2012 09:07 Nuclease wrote: Because of the problems that SK has had so many times with addiction to gaming, I am not surprised at this at all.
If it's not all that surprising to hear about someone die in a PC Bang from gaming for too long, then something has to be done. :/ How does SK's addiction to gaming differ any from American gaming addiction or japanese gaming addiction, or shit, gaming addiction as a whole?
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This sounds awfully familiar. I remember extremely similar news around a year ago, but it faded away with no follow up or clear ramifications.
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Title is insanely misleading please fix -.-'
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On July 04 2012 08:15 sc14s wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 06:54 Zeke50100 wrote:On July 04 2012 06:40 cmen15 wrote:On July 04 2012 03:00 Matuka wrote: Implying that there is such a thing as gaming addiction. LOLOL do you know the game called wow??? well yea that shit was equal to crack for many lost souls haha.(including my self for several years tt) ...No. I bet you it wasn't equal to crack. Merely forsaking "real life" interactions for "virtual" interactions doesn't fit the description of addiction. actually i dropped out of school (1st yr college) and quit my job because of the game so yes it can be equal to crack in my estimation. Before I start, I would like to say, sc14s, that I am not attempting to belittle your very real plight. Your situation is extremely saddening, but I am certain I am not alone in wishing you all the best, both in StarCraft and in life. That said...
The plural of anecdote is not data, and it is most certainly not chemical dependency.
That's a bit harsh, I'll concede, but if there is no physiological need for gaming - i.e. withdrawal symptoms becoming manifest - calling it an addiction reduces the term 'addiction' to something utterly meaningless. It allows the following sentence to be valid: "I'm addicted to conversation - can't even go a day without it! I'm hooked on people!"
The term 'Gaming Addiction' conflates the connotation of the medical term 'addiction' with the technical definition of the term 'Hobby,' taking the accuracy from 'Hobby' (people do spend massive amounts of time on this and other hobbies, after all) and the terror from the word 'addiction' (which, as a very real public health issue, is worthy of legislation). However, Gaming Addiction does not produce physiological cravings - therefore, it fails to fulfill any meaningful medical definition of addiction, meaning that the phrase is itself a contradiction. Moreover, if you argue that you are not using the term 'addiction' in the medical sense, then your definition and the consequent legislation of it has no place in public policy.
Here's the Definition from the American Psychological Association.
This was, again, rather harsh, but I am a firm believer that addiction is a term that, if it should become widely misused, can have disastrous impacts on public policy. The U.S., my homeland, incarcerates addicts as we speak. If we adopt the definition of 'addiction' - as advocated in this thread - that implies that the user is not under physical duress to take the drug, then we are only allowing the perpetuation of a viciously unscientific system by arguing that they are not suffering from a disease, but are rather amoral social deviants. This utter disregard for reality - a negligence embedded into public policy - is something I utterly loathe. This is a consequence of the lazy and negligent definitions being brandied about in our dialogue of addiction and even in this thread. Ergo, I believe my rather acrid words justified.
As I said, I do not wish to call your experiences anything other than trying. Please believe my sincerity on this matter.
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Sorry, link fixed!
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everyone screen was showing starcraft.... no wonder these guys are so good. A side note. Korea really needs to learn how to be parents and control their children these laws are quite asinine.
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the thing is, even though i love progaming and such, it really does fk u up in terms on education... although it didn't effect me much, a majority of people who want to become a progamer.. DONT, and if ur unsuccessful, with a shitty background in ur education, ur screwed.. or u have to waste counless years on giving urself a foundation for university.
stand by it
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dont parents already have control over the amount of time their children can play anyway? doesnt seem like a big difference.
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On July 04 2012 13:40 SpaceFighting wrote: the thing is, even though i love progaming and such, it really does fk u up in terms on education... although it didn't effect me much, a majority of people who want to become a progamer.. DONT, and if ur unsuccessful, with a shitty background in ur education, ur screwed.. or u have to waste counless years on giving urself a foundation for university.
stand by it
But isn't that your own decision? What about musicians or artists who want to become professional, especially musicians who want to become full-time performers? Aren't there not many who want that? Does that fuck them up in terms of education? Isn't that up for them to decide? Isn't up to them how they handle their lives? If they mess up it's their fault. There shouldn't be laws preventing people from taking risks in their lives. It's not like they're going to be dead or anything. They can still find minimum wage jobs or better. It's not like no one's going to hire them.
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On July 04 2012 11:32 RHMVNovus wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 08:15 sc14s wrote:On July 04 2012 06:54 Zeke50100 wrote:On July 04 2012 06:40 cmen15 wrote:On July 04 2012 03:00 Matuka wrote: Implying that there is such a thing as gaming addiction. LOLOL do you know the game called wow??? well yea that shit was equal to crack for many lost souls haha.(including my self for several years tt) ...No. I bet you it wasn't equal to crack. Merely forsaking "real life" interactions for "virtual" interactions doesn't fit the description of addiction. actually i dropped out of school (1st yr college) and quit my job because of the game so yes it can be equal to crack in my estimation. Before I start, I would like to say, sc14s, that I am not attempting to belittle your very real plight. Your situation is extremely saddening, but I am certain I am not alone in wishing you all the best, both in StarCraft and in life. That said... The plural of anecdote is not data, and it is most certainly not chemical dependency. That's a bit harsh, I'll concede, but if there is no physiological need for gaming - i.e. withdrawal symptoms becoming manifest - calling it an addiction reduces the term 'addiction' to something utterly meaningless. It allows the following sentence to be valid: "I'm addicted to conversation - can't even go a day without it! I'm hooked on people!" The term 'Gaming Addiction' conflates the connotation of the medical term 'addiction' with the technical definition of the term 'Hobby,' taking the accuracy from 'Hobby' (people do spend massive amounts of time on this and other hobbies, after all) and the terror from the word 'addiction' (which, as a very real public health issue, is worthy of legislation). However, Gaming Addiction does not produce physiological cravings - therefore, it fails to fulfill any meaningful medical definition of addiction, meaning that the phrase is itself a contradiction. Moreover, if you argue that you are not using the term 'addiction' in the medical sense, then your definition and the consequent legislation of it has no place in public policy. Here's the Definition from the American Psychological Association.This was, again, rather harsh, but I am a firm believer that addiction is a term that, if it should become widely misused, can have disastrous impacts on public policy. The U.S., my homeland, incarcerates addicts as we speak. If we adopt the definition of 'addiction' - as advocated in this thread - that implies that the user is not under physical duress to take the drug, then we are only allowing the perpetuation of a viciously unscientific system by arguing that they are not suffering from a disease, but are rather amoral social deviants. This utter disregard for reality - a negligence embedded into public policy - is something I utterly loathe. This is a consequence of the lazy and negligent definitions being brandied about in our dialogue of addiction and even in this thread. Ergo, I believe my rather acrid words justified. As I said, I do not wish to call your experiences anything other than trying. Please believe my sincerity on this matter. Just as an aside that (what happened) was years ago.
you are arguing semantics about the difference between a physical chemical addiction and a mental addiction.. obviously they are different, You are pretty much taking it too literal and missing the point.
but regardless of if its "addiction" or not it is still possibly destructive to individuals which is what actually matters.
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China already has tons of laws like this. That's one of the reasons esports isn't a lot bigger over there.
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The new generation of gamers/hackers incoming...
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This is what your parents meant if you've ever heard them say to you, "There's more to life than just video games." Anything done to the extreme can be (and probably will be) bad for you.
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On July 04 2012 07:50 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 06:02 Parskatt wrote:That depends on how you interpret the term "addiction". For example, if you see a fat guy do you say he is addicted to eating or that he just does too little exercise? The same could be said for a lot of things, but I'm not going to bring up each example since I would wind up with a wall of text. Personally I don't think gaming addiction exists and can be cured, and frankly I believe that it's in their culture much like in America with fast food. Allthough this might be a good thing it's about the same as forcing Mc donalds to serve carrots instead of fries in their happy meals, it will just make the kids get there unhealthy food someplace else and won't actually solve the issue. (Sorry for all the fast food refrences) You don't believe someone who is overweight is addicted to food first glance nor do I believe someone is addicted to gaming because they play games a lot at first glance. Doesn't mean there aren't fat people who are addicted to food and gamers who are addicted to games. Sure, it's not a physical addiction (although you could make a case for it with adrenaline and other stuff your brain does to you), but it's an addiction nonetheless. You know what else is (barely) physical? Smoking. You go cold turkey that shit is out of you in a day, so why do people have such a tough time quitting smoking...? They're addicted to it, mentally. Well actually smoking is not "barely" physical, if you are addicted to smoking it is hard to stop, even if you want to, since the lack of nicotine will often make people feel really sick. I haven't heard of a single person that actually wants to quit playing computer games but can't since they actually get ill from it. Maybe fastfood was a bad refrence since people that eat it actually feel ill if they try to switch diet :/
If anyone actually has seen a guy that is so addicted to playing computer that he get sick/ suffer from depression etc from himself choosing not to play even though he doesnt like it im all ears,. btw: being bored doesn't count
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This is only a small step towards completely ban gaming from the country. The goverment wants to stop all gaming, but they have to forbid it in small steps, else people will make too much protest. It's quite sad.
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On July 04 2012 15:57 sc14s wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 11:32 RHMVNovus wrote:On July 04 2012 08:15 sc14s wrote:On July 04 2012 06:54 Zeke50100 wrote:On July 04 2012 06:40 cmen15 wrote:On July 04 2012 03:00 Matuka wrote: Implying that there is such a thing as gaming addiction. LOLOL do you know the game called wow??? well yea that shit was equal to crack for many lost souls haha.(including my self for several years tt) ...No. I bet you it wasn't equal to crack. Merely forsaking "real life" interactions for "virtual" interactions doesn't fit the description of addiction. actually i dropped out of school (1st yr college) and quit my job because of the game so yes it can be equal to crack in my estimation. Before I start, I would like to say, sc14s, that I am not attempting to belittle your very real plight. Your situation is extremely saddening, but I am certain I am not alone in wishing you all the best, both in StarCraft and in life. That said... The plural of anecdote is not data, and it is most certainly not chemical dependency. That's a bit harsh, I'll concede, but if there is no physiological need for gaming - i.e. withdrawal symptoms becoming manifest - calling it an addiction reduces the term 'addiction' to something utterly meaningless. It allows the following sentence to be valid: "I'm addicted to conversation - can't even go a day without it! I'm hooked on people!" The term 'Gaming Addiction' conflates the connotation of the medical term 'addiction' with the technical definition of the term 'Hobby,' taking the accuracy from 'Hobby' (people do spend massive amounts of time on this and other hobbies, after all) and the terror from the word 'addiction' (which, as a very real public health issue, is worthy of legislation). However, Gaming Addiction does not produce physiological cravings - therefore, it fails to fulfill any meaningful medical definition of addiction, meaning that the phrase is itself a contradiction. Moreover, if you argue that you are not using the term 'addiction' in the medical sense, then your definition and the consequent legislation of it has no place in public policy. Here's the Definition from the American Psychological Association.This was, again, rather harsh, but I am a firm believer that addiction is a term that, if it should become widely misused, can have disastrous impacts on public policy. The U.S., my homeland, incarcerates addicts as we speak. If we adopt the definition of 'addiction' - as advocated in this thread - that implies that the user is not under physical duress to take the drug, then we are only allowing the perpetuation of a viciously unscientific system by arguing that they are not suffering from a disease, but are rather amoral social deviants. This utter disregard for reality - a negligence embedded into public policy - is something I utterly loathe. This is a consequence of the lazy and negligent definitions being brandied about in our dialogue of addiction and even in this thread. Ergo, I believe my rather acrid words justified. As I said, I do not wish to call your experiences anything other than trying. Please believe my sincerity on this matter. Just as an aside that (what happened) was years ago. you are arguing semantics about the difference between a physical chemical addiction and a mental addiction.. obviously they are different, You are pretty much taking it too literal and missing the point. but regardless of if its "addiction" or not it is still possibly destructive to individuals which is what actually matters. As I said, however, semantics matter. Words mean things.
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On July 04 2012 13:37 logikly wrote: everyone screen was showing starcraft.... no wonder these guys are so good. A side note. Korea really needs to learn how to be parents and control their children these laws are quite asinine. Yes all Koreans are bad parents because of SC...
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On July 05 2012 06:14 Supamang wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 13:37 logikly wrote: everyone screen was showing starcraft.... no wonder these guys are so good. A side note. Korea really needs to learn how to be parents and control their children these laws are quite asinine. Yes all Koreans are bad parents because of SC...
I think he means these laws should be obsolete with good parental supervision. As in, making sure he does his/her homework instead of playing hours on end. I know I tried, and I would have succeeded if it weren't for my parents :/
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On July 04 2012 09:16 snotboogie wrote:Actually this is a step towards better Foreigner competitiveness. Don't know if it will actually offset the Korean advantages of infrastructure and expertise in running progaming teams, but it's something. As for the law itself I've heard the situation in Korea is not really comparable to other countries so I'll refrain from posting my uneducated opinion on it.
...what?
lowering the skill level for a sport is better for it?
LOL
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this already happened no?
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A lot of games in south korea already had this implemented on their own. It's not as big a change as you'd think.
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On July 04 2012 03:09 Megaliskuu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 03:00 Matuka wrote: Implying that there is such a thing as gaming addiction. Did you see that thread that was posted here just a few days ago by that guy who has been playing for 2 years, still in plat league, who quit his job and everything. Thats an addiction lol.
If there's anyone whose fail enough to play full time for 2 years and still be in plat then in all honesty he probably couldn't hold down a job anyway
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On July 04 2012 09:07 Nuclease wrote: Because of the problems that SK has had so many times with addiction to gaming, I am not surprised at this at all.
If it's not all that surprising to hear about someone die in a PC Bang from gaming for too long, then something has to be done. :/
Theres already been multiple cases of gaming addiction where deaths have been a result or abuse/violence. I remember a case where a mother neglected her baby for gaming which resulted in the baby's death. Another is when a child was crying and the parent ruptured the lung of a child and killed him when they punched him/her extremely hard for disturbing them while gaming. In vietnam there were also cases of people killing themselves because they're extremely addicted when their parents refused to let them game. (some jumped out the apartment and died, others injured themselves)
This kind of news is just shadowed by everything else people deemed important. It might not be prominent, but it still happens. The addiction is real, not some bullshit people spew out.
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I sincerely doubt that this law is going to particularly impact potential pro gamers. Sure, it is remotely possible that some parents will nuke their children's SC2 time just to keep them from going pro and enter the profession chosen by the parents instead, but those will probably be the exception. Really, those kinds of parents would have found a way anyway.
However, the parents whose children are so hooked that they'll sneak to the computer to play when the parents are asleep can now block their children from playing without staying up all night watching their children and ruining their careers. More to the point, this law requires any online game being sold in Korea to provide the abilitty for the parents to do that.
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Battle.net already has full parential controls and as such shouldn't be affected by this much through.
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What if the partents of Maru prime decide that they want him to go to medical school, and puts a block on his sc2 play, hes only 14/15. that would suck lol.
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So, what happens to leenock and creator?
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Wow, seriously. How can so many people in this thread claim online gaming addiction is actually stupidity? I would ask those people, if they don't feel stupid, because they never did any research even though they obviously spend a lot of time online.
There are plenty reports of gaming addiction, just google the x stories of failed WoW lives. If you read what those people are saying, you will notice that they are describing the symptoms of a real addiction. Organizing your entire life to maximize gaming time isn't stupidity, that's called methodical. People start to depend on the social structure they have built in their online worlds and they also never learned to distinguish between good and bad rewards for effort; i.e. they feel like grabbing that new piece of armor or being promoted to master league, actually tells something about their success in life.
Just because you aren't affected doesn't mean addicts are stupid. They probably had some different lessons from their parents than most people, but to say they are stupid is plain ignorance. (I thought plain ignorance is a bannable offense on TL?)
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On July 11 2012 10:45 nimbim wrote: Wow, seriously. How can so many people in this thread claim online gaming addiction is actually stupidity? I would ask those people, if they don't feel stupid, because they never did any research even though they obviously spend a lot of time online.
There are plenty reports of gaming addiction, just google the x stories of failed WoW lives. If you read what those people are saying, you will notice that they are describing the symptoms of a real addiction. Organizing your entire life to maximize gaming time isn't stupidity, that's called methodical. People start to depend on the social structure they have built in their online worlds and they also never learned to distinguish between good and bad rewards for effort; i.e. they feel like grabbing that new piece of armor or being promoted to master league, actually tells something about their success in life.
Just because you aren't affected doesn't mean addicts are stupid. They probably had some different lessons from their parents than most people, but to say they are stupid is plain ignorance. (I thought plain ignorance is a bannable offense on TL?)
Hmm if they are addicted they should either try to fix it or if they are under age their parents shouldn't be letting it happen. It shouldn't be up to the government to fix gaming addiction or anything. That should be the parents/family not the government. I know when I was younger my dad would only let me play games for 2 hours a day at most when I was younger. The only times there were exceptions to this rule were if it was really crappy outside and nothing to do, even then we still wouldnt' be allowed to play all day (me and brother).
It's something parents can do and if their kid throws a tantrum then threaten to make it shorter or not be allowed to be for x amount of days. It's the only way to stop it.
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You can get addicted to anything that releases your brain's reward chemicals, seratonin and dopamine. That's... why they're an addiction. Because you want the reward. This kind of cannot be broken down any simpler than that, your brain likes things that makes it happy, so it will continue partaking in whatever nets it such a reward.
That said, I still think it's up to the user (at least when they're of age) to control themselves. I'd like to say that I can do it so others should be able to as well, but that sadly isn't the case, partially because of differences in people on the biological level, but also because some people are just too damn lazy/weak willed. I want to help the former, but have no tolerance of the latter.
(Then again I'm not very strong willed when it comes to staying in shape and such so I'm a hypocrite).
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On July 04 2012 03:09 qotsager wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 03:00 Matuka wrote: Implying that there is such a thing as gaming addiction. there is. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_addictionthis doesn't seem too bad, does it? i mean, the parents decide how much and when their child plays, and most parents regulate their childrens consume of games anyway. as they should. i wouldn't want a 13-year-old to play 8 hours a day. seriously.
Formally there is no such thing as Video game addiction. First off, quoting wikipedia on this matter is inappropriate. Second, the Diagnostic and Statistic Manual V or DSM V for short is not going to recognize Internet Addiction or Video Game Addiction as formal diagnoses. Until there has been more research on the matter and the authorities on the matter make it a formal diagnosis, it is not a psychological disorder. I'd argue that so called "Internet Addiction" and "Video Game Addiction" are merely symptoms of a larger problem such as a personality disorder, problems with the formation of the prefrontal cortex of the brain, ADHD, et cetera,
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On July 04 2012 06:02 Parskatt wrote:
That depends on how you interpret the term "addiction". For example, if you see a fat guy do you say he is addicted to eating or that he just does too little exercise? The same could be said for a lot of things, but I'm not going to bring up each example since I would wind up with a wall of text.
Personally I don't think gaming addiction exists and can be cured, and frankly I believe that it's in their culture much like in America with fast food. Allthough this might be a good thing it's about the same as forcing Mc donalds to serve carrots instead of fries in their happy meals, it will just make the kids get there unhealthy food someplace else and won't actually solve the issue.
(Sorry for all the fast food refrences)
On July 11 2012 23:52 NEOtheONE wrote:
Formally there is no such thing as Video game addiction. First off, quoting wikipedia on this matter is inappropriate. Second, the Diagnostic and Statistic Manual V or DSM V for short is not going to recognize Internet Addiction or Video Game Addiction as formal diagnoses. Until there has been more research on the matter and the authorities on the matter make it a formal diagnosis, it is not a psychological disorder. I'd argue that so called "Internet Addiction" and "Video Game Addiction" are merely symptoms of a larger problem such as a personality disorder, problems with the formation of the prefrontal cortex of the brain, ADHD, et cetera,
Educate yourselves:
http://www.yourbrainonporn.com/recent-internet-addiction-studies-include-porn
That site is very thorough on the science behind addiction and the politics at play re "there is no such thing as video game addiction."
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On July 11 2012 23:58 KamMoye wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 06:02 Parskatt wrote:
That depends on how you interpret the term "addiction". For example, if you see a fat guy do you say he is addicted to eating or that he just does too little exercise? The same could be said for a lot of things, but I'm not going to bring up each example since I would wind up with a wall of text.
Personally I don't think gaming addiction exists and can be cured, and frankly I believe that it's in their culture much like in America with fast food. Allthough this might be a good thing it's about the same as forcing Mc donalds to serve carrots instead of fries in their happy meals, it will just make the kids get there unhealthy food someplace else and won't actually solve the issue.
(Sorry for all the fast food refrences) Show nested quote +On July 11 2012 23:52 NEOtheONE wrote:
Formally there is no such thing as Video game addiction. First off, quoting wikipedia on this matter is inappropriate. Second, the Diagnostic and Statistic Manual V or DSM V for short is not going to recognize Internet Addiction or Video Game Addiction as formal diagnoses. Until there has been more research on the matter and the authorities on the matter make it a formal diagnosis, it is not a psychological disorder. I'd argue that so called "Internet Addiction" and "Video Game Addiction" are merely symptoms of a larger problem such as a personality disorder, problems with the formation of the prefrontal cortex of the brain, ADHD, et cetera, Educate yourselves: http://www.yourbrainonporn.com/recent-internet-addiction-studies-include-pornThat site is very thorough on the science behind addiction and the politics at play re "there is no such thing as video game addiction."
The DSM is the authority on the matters of diagnosing. You cannot just point to some research and say "see there is such a thing" because in order for something to be an "addiction" it has to have measurable and objective diagnostic criteria that is recognized by the authorities in the field, in this case Counselors, Psychologists, and Psychiatrists.
Furthermore, I have done far more research into the matter than just one article here and there. I have already read dozens of articles on the matter many of which have findings that disagree. Until my field (counseling psychology) recognizes it as a formal diagnosis, I will not treat it as such.
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Don't they have parents in korea? What i am suggesting is that the parents are responsible for their children. With this law non addictive children to good parents will be restricted in their spare time by the government because lousy parents can't control their children from playing all day long. I think this kind of mentality is called collective punishment and is not the way to good because it's an infringement of your personal freedom. Also as battle.net is part of the internet the law will limit the freedom of speech as battle.net is a forum for creative outlets and communication.
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On July 12 2012 00:04 NEOtheONE wrote:
The DSM is the authority on the matters of diagnosing. You cannot just point to some research and say "see there is such a thing" because in order for something to be an "addiction" it has to have measurable and objective diagnostic criteria that is recognized by the authorities in the field, in this case Counselors, Psychologists, and Psychiatrists.
Did you even read the link? What understanding did you take away from it?
Here's anothe one: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/cupids-poisoned-arrow/201205/porn-and-dsm-5-are-sexual-politics-play
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South Korea is going to start letting parents decide when their kids can game.
This is completely... dumb.
Put this in perspective. When I was 17, I played ~9-10 hours of games every day, with a focus on SC2. My grades slipped, my relationship suffered, and as a result my parents installed "Computer Time" on my computer. I was limited to two hours of *any kind of PC gaming* a day. Being computer savvy I was able to get around the program in multiple different ways, but eventually all of the holes were covered and I wasn't able to play anymore. My parents decided, without the government's help, that they could limit the amount of games I was playing.
I'm 20 now and I play whenever I want, but I try to keep a balance of "real" things in my life. But the point is, my parents had the right to limit my play time. Simple as that. They don't need the government's help in any of this. If they want to limit a child's right to use the computer or other gaming systems, they can. Simple as that. Whether or not you agree with their motives.
That being said... This system is not terrible. Instead of simply locking everyone out of playing for a certain block of the day, they let parents decide in a way that they don't have to be tech-savvy in order to enforce. And, if the parent is actually has a brain, they'll let their kid play whenever they want to as long as it doesn't interfere with their school and stuff.
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On July 12 2012 00:10 KamMoye wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 00:04 NEOtheONE wrote:
The DSM is the authority on the matters of diagnosing. You cannot just point to some research and say "see there is such a thing" because in order for something to be an "addiction" it has to have measurable and objective diagnostic criteria that is recognized by the authorities in the field, in this case Counselors, Psychologists, and Psychiatrists.
Did you even read the link? What understanding did you take away from it? Here's anothe one: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/cupids-poisoned-arrow/201205/porn-and-dsm-5-are-sexual-politics-play
Yes I did read the first site you linked, and what I took away from it was these were the results of 4 studies, which you always have to take with a grain of salt. I do agree that there is better evidence for sex related addictions, but these are not the same as general internet or video game problems. Sex triggers more hormones and areas of the brain. Of course one could also then argue that there is such a thing as "love addiction" that is being addicted to falling in "love," Which would really be an addiction to the combination of hormones that occur when you fall in love. The problem is that you can quickly start diagnosing anything and everything. Read through the DSM and you'll probably find you somewhat meet the criteria for a wide variety of disorders. Ultimately, it comes down to whether the behavior truly impairs the individual from functioning "normally" in society. The problem of course is that "normal functioning" is a subjective and relative term and is being made by a society that itself is sick with problems of its own.
The disorders related to the Internet and gaming are in the appendices under things that need to be researched for good reason. The Internet has only been in existence for about 3 decades, and the research into it and possible addiction is far more recent. The last thing we need in Psychology and Counseling is another blanket diagnosis being applied without adequate research into it. Is overuse of the Internet and video games dysfunctional, yes it certainly is. But are these primary problems or simply symptoms of larger problems related to brain development, social functioning, peer problems, et cetera; this remains to be seen.
EDIT: also 10 total studies on the subject matter of Internet Addiction as of a post made in March of this year is a rather low number, and by low number I mean you should be hesitant to jump to any conclusions until more research is done. There are many ways to inflate results of studies, and you also have to consider sample size and ethnic diversity as well.
In order for these problems to be the primary problem you have to eliminate the other issues that could precipitate someone turning to the Internet and video games as a way to escape. These include problems interacting with peers, problems with brain development, genetic disorders, problems in the family life, problems with interacting with people they are sexually attracted to, et cetera.
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On July 12 2012 00:39 NEOtheONE wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 00:10 KamMoye wrote:On July 12 2012 00:04 NEOtheONE wrote:
The DSM is the authority on the matters of diagnosing. You cannot just point to some research and say "see there is such a thing" because in order for something to be an "addiction" it has to have measurable and objective diagnostic criteria that is recognized by the authorities in the field, in this case Counselors, Psychologists, and Psychiatrists.
Did you even read the link? What understanding did you take away from it? Here's anothe one: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/cupids-poisoned-arrow/201205/porn-and-dsm-5-are-sexual-politics-play Yes I did read the first site you linked, and what I took away from it was these were the results of 4 studies, which you always have to take with a grain of salt. I do agree that there is better evidence for sex related addictions, but these are not the same as general internet or video game problems. Sex triggers more hormones and areas of the brain. Of course one could also then argue that there is such a thing as "love addiction" that is being addicted to falling in "love," Which would really be an addiction to the combination of hormones that occur when you fall in love. The problem is that you can quickly start diagnosing anything and everything. Read through the DSM and you'll probably find you somewhat meet the criteria for a wide variety of disorders. Ultimately, it comes down to whether the behavior truly impairs the individual from functioning "normally" in society. The problem of course is that "normal functioning" is a subjective and relative term and is being made by a society that itself is sick with problems of its own. The disorders related to the Internet and gaming are in the appendices under things that need to be researched for good reason. The Internet has only been in existence for about 3 decades, and the research into it and possible addiction is far more recent. The last thing we need in Psychology and Counseling is another blanket diagnosis being applied without adequate research into it. Is overuse of the Internet and video games dysfunctional, yes it certainly is. But are these primary problems or simply symptoms of larger problems related to brain development, social functioning, peer problems, et cetera; this remains to be seen. EDIT: also 10 total studies on the subject matter of Internet Addiction as of a post made in March of this year is a rather low number, and by low number I mean you should be hesitant to jump to any conclusions until more research is done. There are many ways to inflate results of studies, and you also have to consider sample size and ethnic diversity as well. In order for these problems to be the primary problem you have to eliminate the other issues that could precipitate someone turning to the Internet and video games as a way to escape. These include problems interacting with peers, problems with brain development, genetic disorders, problems in the family life, problems with interacting with people they are sexually attracted to, et cetera.
The point you do not seem to be understanding is that addiction is not just something you can start "quickly diagnosing." It is something that manifests via physical changes in your brain, most notably by the protein Delta FosB.
In any case, the fundamental brain changes for all addictions—both behavioral and chemical—are so similar that addiction specialists now consider all addiction to be one disease rather than many different diseases. Whether someone is diagnosed with gambling, videogaming or Internet addiction, it indicates that a specific collection of anatomical and physiological abnormalities has occurred (with minor variations).
Indeed, the same molecular switch triggers addiction-related brain changes in all addicts. The master switch that triggers these changes is the protein DeltaFosB. Both chronic, high level consumption of natural rewards (sex, sugar, high-fat) and chronic administration of virtually any drug of abuse cause DeltaFosB to accumulate in the reward circuit, thus triggering a cascade of further brain changes.
It would be interesting, but redundant, to isolate particular types of Internet addiction in order to establish the reality of any one of them, including porn addiction.
You can view these "new" addictions through physical means. An unwillingness to do that is an example of the politics at play.
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Here's an idea:
The people claiming gaming addiction isn't real are actually addicted and are in denial.
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On July 12 2012 12:41 xtruder wrote: Here's an idea:
The people claiming gaming addiction isn't real are actually addicted and are in denial.
I would say people are saying South Korea has a bad understanding of "gaming addiction".
They want all their children to be worker bees and study 15 hours a day. A kid plays Starcraft for 4 hours a day instead of reading his Calculus textbook? Must be an addict, let's make some laws.
There is a reason South Korea has the highest suicide rates of children by a dramatic margin than any other first world country. Pressure. Constant pressure from parents and governments.
I don't mean to come off as a ignorant/racist, but this has been pretty blatant in some Asian countries for quite a few years now.
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On July 12 2012 12:41 xtruder wrote: Here's an idea:
The people claiming gaming addiction isn't real are actually addicted and are in denial.
Agreed.
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On July 05 2012 17:13 Hertzy wrote: I sincerely doubt that this law is going to particularly impact potential pro gamers. Sure, it is remotely possible that some parents will nuke their children's SC2 time just to keep them from going pro and enter the profession chosen by the parents instead, but those will probably be the exception. Really, those kinds of parents would have found a way anyway.
However, the parents whose children are so hooked that they'll sneak to the computer to play when the parents are asleep can now block their children from playing without staying up all night watching their children and ruining their careers. More to the point, this law requires any online game being sold in Korea to provide the abilitty for the parents to do that. But that's exactly what XellOs did
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On July 12 2012 13:20 SafeAsCheese wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 12:41 xtruder wrote: Here's an idea:
The people claiming gaming addiction isn't real are actually addicted and are in denial. I would say people are saying South Korea has a bad understanding of "gaming addiction". They want all their children to be worker bees and study 15 hours a day. A kid plays Starcraft for 4 hours a day instead of reading his Calculus textbook? Must be an addict, let's make some laws. There is a reason South Korea has the highest suicide rates of children by a dramatic margin than any other first world country. Pressure. Constant pressure from parents and governments. I don't mean to come off as a ignorant/racist, but this has been pretty blatant in some Asian countries for quite a few years now.
The only place where this phenomenon is worse, is in China. There you have to compete against 1 million other students in the same field, so 0.001 point on the end score can be the difference between getting admitted to the top35 universities, or a regular one. Same with work in there.
This law does not enforce the curfew, but it forces all applications to have the ability to implement it. The law in itself isn't "harmful" but the problem lies elsewhere. If it's good or bad, we're not able to judge right now. I know one thing. If my (future) child would show that he plays too much games as opposed to working on his future, then I will stop him from doing that, and there's no need for parental control there. The key in my eyes lies in the way you bring up your kids.
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I feel bad for the south korean kids , too much pressure -> turn to games -> now games are taken away -> kids turn to other things
i'm not qualified to make any judgment, sometimes the world is just sad
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I dont see a problem in parents deciding the playtime of their kids even until they are 18.
Dont come up with "free mind" and shit. Parents are still the boss if you live under their roof and are underaged.
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On July 13 2012 06:39 bailando wrote: I dont see a problem in parents deciding the playtime of their kids even until they are 18.
Dont come up with "free mind" and shit. Parents are still the boss if you live under their roof and are underaged.
While that is true, I think the argument above about how intense the competition is over there and how much pressure comes from family, shows that their may actually be a problem. Work your kid 15 hours a day without any breaks for relaxation or enjoyment and eventually they'll just turn off their brains and refuse to learn.
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On July 13 2012 09:14 Levi Deninard wrote:
While that is true, I think the argument above about how intense the competition is over there and how much pressure comes from family, shows that their may actually be a problem. Work your kid 15 hours a day without any breaks for relaxation or enjoyment and eventually they'll just turn off their brains and refuse to learn.
I think thats what the western world always thinks..."asians work 20 hours a day and sleep 4". I mean look at it this way: Maru is the youngest GSL player (i believe). If he works 14 hours a day for school....and lets say sleeps 6-8 hours theres not much time left especially when he comes home at 6 or 8 pm.
You cant tell me he is GSL Code S when he has only about 4 hours time a day and sometimes no time at all to play! get outa here! 
If a 14 year old can make it to the highest and most prestigious (hope i wrote that right lol) SC2 tournemant...well fuck me he got time. I believe pro gamers are just horribly bad at school. At least most of them. especially IF we go that way you all think that theres so much pressure. Well guess what, its not bad to cut gaming if you can get a decent degree for your later life. Just my oppinion on that. Hope you understand.
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The linked article gives a pathetic amount of information on the subject. How are exactly are parents going to control their children's online gaming schedules?
And whatever happened to punishing kids for not listening to their parents? Does South Korea really need a law that steps in where parents should have in the first place?
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I think the subliminal message in that was: "screw you SK, now WE can win in starcraft 2." I actually disliked the article almost entirely on that basis. Then again, I'm not affected by what happens to Korean gamers, so that might have something to do with it.
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On July 13 2012 17:48 bailando wrote:I think thats what the western world always thinks..."asians work 20 hours a day and sleep 4". I mean look at it this way: Maru is the youngest GSL player (i believe). If he works 14 hours a day for school....and lets say sleeps 6-8 hours theres not much time left especially when he comes home at 6 or 8 pm. You cant tell me he is GSL Code S when he has only about 4 hours time a day and sometimes no time at all to play! get outa here!  If a 14 year old can make it to the highest and most prestigious (hope i wrote that right lol) SC2 tournemant...well fuck me he got time. I believe pro gamers are just horribly bad at school. At least most of them. especially IF we go that way you all think that theres so much pressure. Well guess what, its not bad to cut gaming if you can get a decent degree for your later life. Just my oppinion on that. Hope you understand.
You raised a good point, I will admit my perspective was a bit skewed, with the benefit of hindsight. Regardless though; I don't think the Anti-Gaming law will really solve anything. Since those pro-gamers make decent money over there, I doubt those that are on the higher end (and are young) will care to much about school if they're already making good money, and I'm inclined to think their parents may support that.
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I don't like this. Kids are just going to feel that what they are doing is not approved in the community and thus start to feel bad about their gaming.
Better approach would be to increase age limits on games that provoke to play many hours a day.
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I can't imagine this will change much; parents are usually able to decide what their kids do & when, anyways. This just makes it easier.
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Korean kids are just in school for an absurd amount of time, 15 hrs doesnt = 15 hours of reading a book or something. At a certain point, you'll just tune out and sleep with your eyes open (or closed). The real problem is the amount of study asian kids (i really only know sk and china situation) go through. It's really not that much more productive than western education, and it really cuts down on developing skills that don't involve endless cramming. In some situations, it's not just gaming that's being targeted, children who spend time involved in art or music often have to quit becuase "three hours painting could be 3 hours studying math".
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On July 13 2012 17:48 bailando wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 09:14 Levi Deninard wrote:
While that is true, I think the argument above about how intense the competition is over there and how much pressure comes from family, shows that their may actually be a problem. Work your kid 15 hours a day without any breaks for relaxation or enjoyment and eventually they'll just turn off their brains and refuse to learn. I think thats what the western world always thinks..."asians work 20 hours a day and sleep 4". I mean look at it this way: Maru is the youngest GSL player (i believe). If he works 14 hours a day for school....and lets say sleeps 6-8 hours theres not much time left especially when he comes home at 6 or 8 pm. You cant tell me he is GSL Code S when he has only about 4 hours time a day and sometimes no time at all to play! get outa here!  If a 14 year old can make it to the highest and most prestigious (hope i wrote that right lol) SC2 tournemant...well fuck me he got time. I believe pro gamers are just horribly bad at school. At least most of them. especially IF we go that way you all think that theres so much pressure. Well guess what, its not bad to cut gaming if you can get a decent degree for your later life. Just my oppinion on that. Hope you understand.
Degree won't do you any good , or at least that's what i heard from most of the adults nowdays . Everyone in the world has gotten smarter , degree is getting more and more common nowdays . Guys i know told me they struggled getting a job after getting a degree , saying people are favouring those with experiences .
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On July 15 2012 16:06 DeltaSigmaL wrote: Korean kids are just in school for an absurd amount of time, 15 hrs doesnt = 15 hours of reading a book or something. At a certain point, you'll just tune out and sleep with your eyes open (or closed). The real problem is the amount of study asian kids (i really only know sk and china situation) go through. It's really not that much more productive than western education, and it really cuts down on developing skills that don't involve endless cramming. In some situations, it's not just gaming that's being targeted, children who spend time involved in art or music often have to quit becuase "three hours painting could be 3 hours studying math".
Koreans aren't studying for like 15-20 hours straight unlike what most people believe. What Koreans mainly focus on, is preparing for the superexam that pretty much determines your future in Korea. School rarely helps, so if you go to some schools, students are talking nonstop and ignoring the teacher the whole time or sleeping (although when the teacher calls on the student, they can somehow answer the question perfectly). What they do after school is go to the hagwons that focus on the exam itself, so they do more of their real studying outside of school. This is the main problem, they either need to change the exam or change what is taught in schools. While it does facilitate intense studying and helps the country a lot due to these hard working individuals, it does cause high suicide rates and childhoods that are empty (although many parents spoil their children immensely during their youth to give them some happiness). But the results do speak for themselves, although it could use some modification.
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On July 13 2012 06:39 bailando wrote: I dont see a problem in parents deciding the playtime of their kids even until they are 18.
Dont come up with "free mind" and shit. Parents are still the boss if you live under their roof and are underaged. yeah this is how normal familys should work, but it isnt suppose to be a freaking law!
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On July 13 2012 17:48 bailando wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 09:14 Levi Deninard wrote:
While that is true, I think the argument above about how intense the competition is over there and how much pressure comes from family, shows that their may actually be a problem. Work your kid 15 hours a day without any breaks for relaxation or enjoyment and eventually they'll just turn off their brains and refuse to learn. I think thats what the western world always thinks..."asians work 20 hours a day and sleep 4". I mean look at it this way: Maru is the youngest GSL player (i believe). If he works 14 hours a day for school....and lets say sleeps 6-8 hours theres not much time left especially when he comes home at 6 or 8 pm. You cant tell me he is GSL Code S when he has only about 4 hours time a day and sometimes no time at all to play! get outa here!  If a 14 year old can make it to the highest and most prestigious (hope i wrote that right lol) SC2 tournemant...well fuck me he got time. I believe pro gamers are just horribly bad at school. At least most of them. especially IF we go that way you all think that theres so much pressure. Well guess what, its not bad to cut gaming if you can get a decent degree for your later life. Just my oppinion on that. Hope you understand.
Maru dropped out of school to go full time pro gamer. That's why he is able to play at a Code S level, plus his youth affords him plenty of speed and energy plus his brain is still developing so he can REALLY learn Starcraft. Your ability to learn from experience is incredible when you're so young. But yeah, my main point is he doesn't attend school.
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Seriously, who must die to stop stupid people from believing there is such thing as gaming addiction. How did north america combat smoking? They put pictures of charcoaled up lungs on the packs. If they really believe games can be addicting just put a picture of the fucking ugliest nerd you can find on the sc2 box instead of jim raynor or something.
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how in the world are you supposed to enforce a law that mandates the amount of time that children spend playing video games?
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What a bass ackwrards law. Instead of doing the parenting, lets have settings to do it for us. More and more separation in this technological age, even within a family:/, doesn't bode well for the future.
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This is so sad, i thought the koreans was ahead of other countries of thinking about gaming but when i read about this i dont know anymore. If i couldent play at the times i wanted to i would probably have a much more boring life. I think things like alcohol is going to be big over there for people under the age of 18 :/
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On July 12 2012 09:52 KamMoye wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 00:39 NEOtheONE wrote:On July 12 2012 00:10 KamMoye wrote:On July 12 2012 00:04 NEOtheONE wrote:
The DSM is the authority on the matters of diagnosing. You cannot just point to some research and say "see there is such a thing" because in order for something to be an "addiction" it has to have measurable and objective diagnostic criteria that is recognized by the authorities in the field, in this case Counselors, Psychologists, and Psychiatrists.
Did you even read the link? What understanding did you take away from it? Here's anothe one: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/cupids-poisoned-arrow/201205/porn-and-dsm-5-are-sexual-politics-play Yes I did read the first site you linked, and what I took away from it was these were the results of 4 studies, which you always have to take with a grain of salt. I do agree that there is better evidence for sex related addictions, but these are not the same as general internet or video game problems. Sex triggers more hormones and areas of the brain. Of course one could also then argue that there is such a thing as "love addiction" that is being addicted to falling in "love," Which would really be an addiction to the combination of hormones that occur when you fall in love. The problem is that you can quickly start diagnosing anything and everything. Read through the DSM and you'll probably find you somewhat meet the criteria for a wide variety of disorders. Ultimately, it comes down to whether the behavior truly impairs the individual from functioning "normally" in society. The problem of course is that "normal functioning" is a subjective and relative term and is being made by a society that itself is sick with problems of its own. The disorders related to the Internet and gaming are in the appendices under things that need to be researched for good reason. The Internet has only been in existence for about 3 decades, and the research into it and possible addiction is far more recent. The last thing we need in Psychology and Counseling is another blanket diagnosis being applied without adequate research into it. Is overuse of the Internet and video games dysfunctional, yes it certainly is. But are these primary problems or simply symptoms of larger problems related to brain development, social functioning, peer problems, et cetera; this remains to be seen. EDIT: also 10 total studies on the subject matter of Internet Addiction as of a post made in March of this year is a rather low number, and by low number I mean you should be hesitant to jump to any conclusions until more research is done. There are many ways to inflate results of studies, and you also have to consider sample size and ethnic diversity as well. In order for these problems to be the primary problem you have to eliminate the other issues that could precipitate someone turning to the Internet and video games as a way to escape. These include problems interacting with peers, problems with brain development, genetic disorders, problems in the family life, problems with interacting with people they are sexually attracted to, et cetera. The point you do not seem to be understanding is that addiction is not just something you can start "quickly diagnosing." It is something that manifests via physical changes in your brain, most notably by the protein Delta FosB. Show nested quote +In any case, the fundamental brain changes for all addictions—both behavioral and chemical—are so similar that addiction specialists now consider all addiction to be one disease rather than many different diseases. Whether someone is diagnosed with gambling, videogaming or Internet addiction, it indicates that a specific collection of anatomical and physiological abnormalities has occurred (with minor variations).
Indeed, the same molecular switch triggers addiction-related brain changes in all addicts. The master switch that triggers these changes is the protein DeltaFosB. Both chronic, high level consumption of natural rewards (sex, sugar, high-fat) and chronic administration of virtually any drug of abuse cause DeltaFosB to accumulate in the reward circuit, thus triggering a cascade of further brain changes.
It would be interesting, but redundant, to isolate particular types of Internet addiction in order to establish the reality of any one of them, including porn addiction. You can view these "new" addictions through physical means. An unwillingness to do that is an example of the politics at play.
I get where you are going with physical changes in the brain, but the problem is the general public does not understand that. Furthermore, how do you determine whether someone needs the brain scan to check to see if he/she is an addict to begin with? I'm not denying that there is a point where you can go so far that addicted is the only way to describe it. I'm saying that the problem lies in what happens up until that point, which is the topic at hand. What constitutes problematic gaming? The answer is that it is very subjective. If you play SC2 8-12+ hours a day and are a pro-gamer are you addicted or at risk for becoming addicted? If you play 5-6 hours a day and work full time are you addicted or at risk of becoming addicted? If you play 4 hours a day go to school part time and work full time are you addicted or at risk of addiction?
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