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again, people keep missing this, theres a difference between performing poorly because you do not understand the material and performing poorly because you are not even putting in effort. no one is going to give a 0 to someone who is trying but hasnt grasped the material yet. we're talking about people who deliberately skip assignments and exams without bothering to make them up. how is that not worth a 0 if they clearly do not care/ wont put in any effort at all?
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On June 03 2012 03:16 Trezeguet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 03:14 nennx wrote:
Honestly, you'd have to try fail a class. I can't believe we're having this discussion. If you fail a class, its because you 100% fucked up and its 100% your fault, its not the teachers fault. Every teacher lets you make up tests if they know before hand and you have a REAL excuse, and same goes for turning in homework (you can turn things in early, you know). This is a dumb discussion, if you're not willing to give someone a zero because they missed something, you aren't being a good teacher. Period. You really have no idea what it is like to be most kids. So many kids struggle in school, and this kid of attitude from kids who are not struggling makes me sick. A kid's mother's boyfriend shot the mother dead last week. The kid is doing terrible in my class. I guess I should just fail the kid ehh? Plenty of kids have trouble with math in particular, and they are working quite hard to improve. Are they A students? NO, but that does not mean I should fail them straight off.
Sorry, but you cannot let people pass exams because of personal tragedies that had fallen upon them. They deserve special care, they deserve psycological support, but they do not deserve to pass the course. In the end, you won't do them a favor if you put them into a more advanced class if they haven't understood the easier topics before.
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On June 03 2012 03:14 Frozenzen wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 03:10 sereniity wrote:On June 03 2012 03:05 Faveokatro wrote:
^ This. The "I'm too smart/knowledgeable I don't need to do homework" never made sense to me. If it was that easy for you, the assignment would take almost no time, right? I don't understand where this attitude comes from, I was taking multi-variable calc in middle school and guess what. I still did my homework. I wasn't special and you certainly aren't special for earning a B on an English test. Are you joking? That isn't even that good.
Yes because clearly easy homework can't be big, maybe it'd be easy to do it but easy doesn't mean not tedious, boring and most important of all fucking irrelevant since I've already proven I know this shit. The "nationella proven" in Sweden are the finals of the finals, they include everything you have done during the year and it's all compiled into about 5 different tests that you do, I averaged a B. Doesn't that mean that my knowledge qualifies me for the grade B? "That isn't even that good" well wether or not you think a B is good doesn't matter (fyi B is the new MVG, which was the highest previously in Sweden), seeing as I'm getting an F or E in the best case when I've clearly proven that I deserve more (in terms of what I know). Why are you getting an F or an E? Most teachers base most of their evaluation on the nationals, assuming you have actually attended class and handed in the assignments during the term. If you haven't handed in stuff during the term, then the teacher has no choice but to give you a lower grade, unless you do a prövning. Basically, do the shit you are assigned to do or suffer the consequences, or if you are as smart as you think you are then do a prövning to get away from what you see as busywork.
As I said earlier, I've only attended 60% of the class because of issues with the teacher, now please before you repeat what everybody in this thread does "herp derp you'll have bad bosses aswell" please note that it's not just her being a bad teacher, it's her talking shit about us openly and whatnot (which she will hopefully pay for, now that all of our parents are involved...)
And as I also said earlier, I didn't even know that "prövning" existed, now that I do I will check it out. My teacher said that if I do all the assignments I've missed (only 2, which I am indeed completing) I will get an E. I will get an E because according to my teacher, EVERYTHING matters, every single bit of homework etc. When I asked my math teacher if this is the correct way of grading (he was formerly a principal of our school) he says that it's completely incorrect. Ofcourse he wont do anything because "herp derp she's my co-worker".
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On June 03 2012 03:16 Trezeguet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 03:14 nennx wrote:
Honestly, you'd have to try fail a class. I can't believe we're having this discussion. If you fail a class, its because you 100% fucked up and its 100% your fault, its not the teachers fault. Every teacher lets you make up tests if they know before hand and you have a REAL excuse, and same goes for turning in homework (you can turn things in early, you know). This is a dumb discussion, if you're not willing to give someone a zero because they missed something, you aren't being a good teacher. Period. You really have no idea what it is like to be most kids. So many kids struggle in school, and this kid of attitude from kids who are not struggling makes me sick. A kid's mother's boyfriend shot the mother dead last week. The kid is doing terrible in my class. I guess I should just fail the kid ehh? Plenty of kids have trouble with math in particular, and they are working quite hard to improve. Are they A students? NO, but that does not mean I should fail them straight off.
Its sick to me that you'd give someone the stamp of approval when someone is not ready to move on to the next level of education when they are clearly not ready. You're just increasing the chances that they will have trouble in more advanced classes (especially if its math).
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Wow, my teachers gives out zeros for missing assignments, its what you deserve for slacking off.
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On June 03 2012 03:21 sereniity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 03:14 Frozenzen wrote:On June 03 2012 03:10 sereniity wrote:On June 03 2012 03:05 Faveokatro wrote:
^ This. The "I'm too smart/knowledgeable I don't need to do homework" never made sense to me. If it was that easy for you, the assignment would take almost no time, right? I don't understand where this attitude comes from, I was taking multi-variable calc in middle school and guess what. I still did my homework. I wasn't special and you certainly aren't special for earning a B on an English test. Are you joking? That isn't even that good.
Yes because clearly easy homework can't be big, maybe it'd be easy to do it but easy doesn't mean not tedious, boring and most important of all fucking irrelevant since I've already proven I know this shit. The "nationella proven" in Sweden are the finals of the finals, they include everything you have done during the year and it's all compiled into about 5 different tests that you do, I averaged a B. Doesn't that mean that my knowledge qualifies me for the grade B? "That isn't even that good" well wether or not you think a B is good doesn't matter (fyi B is the new MVG, which was the highest previously in Sweden), seeing as I'm getting an F or E in the best case when I've clearly proven that I deserve more (in terms of what I know). Why are you getting an F or an E? Most teachers base most of their evaluation on the nationals, assuming you have actually attended class and handed in the assignments during the term. If you haven't handed in stuff during the term, then the teacher has no choice but to give you a lower grade, unless you do a prövning. Basically, do the shit you are assigned to do or suffer the consequences, or if you are as smart as you think you are then do a prövning to get away from what you see as busywork. As I said earlier, I've only attended 60% of the class because of issues with the teacher, now please before you fucking repeat what everybody in this thread does "herp derp you'll have bad bosses aswell" please note that it's not just her being a bad teacher, it's her talking shit about us openly and whatnot (which she will hopefully pay for, now that all of our parents are involved...) And as I also said earlier, I didn't even know that "prövning" existed, now that I do I will check it out. My teacher said that if I do all the assignments I've missed (only 2, which I am indeed completing) I will get an E.
lets keep this civil if we can. Learning how to operate with someone you have issues with above IS incredibly important. If the only reason why you're getting an E instead of a B is because the teacher has a vendetta against you, then that will be easily resolved by the school board
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I've skipped about as often as I've been attending classes for the final year of high school, still went out with fairly decent grades considering.., teachers would have had any right to 0 me if they wanted to, but they gave me certain deadlines, i.e. if you're not going to be there for the next classes I'll fail you etc, however they did not fail me since I was holding my end to a certain extent..., I guess that's the only reason I attended so many classes..
Problem being that teachers don't make the student realise fast enough what is going to happen if they don't do as they're told, it's frustrating really how harmless some teaches can appear to be over the course of the year and at the latest possible point, when the student is already like: meh, guy is not going to do anything anyways ; they're putting up deadlines which will result in the failure of the student.
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On June 03 2012 03:17 1Eris1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 03:09 Trezeguet wrote:On June 03 2012 03:06 1Eris1 wrote:On June 03 2012 03:02 Trezeguet wrote:On June 03 2012 02:59 dreamsmasher wrote:On June 03 2012 02:57 nennx wrote:On June 03 2012 02:52 Trezeguet wrote:
Teacher here.
Imagine you have a student who has gotten 100% on 5 of the 6 quizzes in your class. He answers every question right in class, and often enhances all of his peers' knowledge of a subject by leading class discussions to higher level of thinking. This kid misses the last quiz. So you give him a 0% right!?!? Kid averages a 83% B- student. What a joke.
Think of a 4 point scale where 4 is advanced, 3 is proficient, 2 is basic, and 1 is poor. Giving a student a 0/100 is like giving a kid a -6 on a 4 point scale. The point is that in some situations our grading system is beyond stupid and doesn't make mathematical sense. If teachers use grades as a weapon against students, the students learn less. Just becuase a kid doesn't hand in his homework doesn't mean that you can not assess him in a different way. I'm not saying that there should not be a consequence, just that some teachers can be dicks because they think they are teaching kids a lesson, when what they are mostly teaching the kid is that the teacher is a dick, and that the kid shouldn't pay the teacher much mind. Kid misses quiz, how can you even know if he knows anything that was supposed to be on the quiz? You're saying that because the kid proved he knew 83% of the subject, he should get an A? Sure, thats fine if your scale includes 83+ to be an A, but otherwise not. Who doesn't give makeup quizes anyways?? It actually makes perfect mathematical sense. i think what he means is a 70% corresponds to a 2.0 and a 1.0 corresponds to a 60 or whatever a D is. etc.. Exactly. On June 03 2012 03:00 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On June 03 2012 02:28 Kaitlin wrote:On June 03 2012 02:18 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On June 03 2012 02:00 shawster wrote:On June 03 2012 01:47 sereniity wrote:
As I go to school myself I find this a very interesting subject, a question I often bring up is "Are your grades a reflection of your knowledge/skill, or your work put into the class?"
Basically, I feel that even if my english is good enough for grade A, I cannot achieve it unless I come to almost every class and do every piece of homework, even if I get very high scores on my tests. Is this right or wrong?
In my own perfect world, a grade would reflect how a good a certain student is at said subject, not how much time dedicated into it. I know a guy in my english class who is terrible at english, yet he's given grade C. The only reason for that is because he did his homework and was nice to the teacher.
Me on the other hand, had a grudge with the teacher (along with the rest of the class) and I've been having constant meetings with the principal to get ourselves a new teacher (she has a terrible attitude and constantly mocks us, has an aura of prestige as if we're crap and she's the best, yet she can't even spell the word boulder).
Anyway, back on topic, I'm getting an E this year because I basically haven't come to many of her lessons (I have about 60% attendance rate). I did however get a B on my final exams (called 'Nationella Proven' in Sweden).
Maybe this was abit off-topic, I got abit carried away :D... totally disagree with you you're saying that intelligence should be your mark and effort should be less of it. come on now, how successful you are at a certain job is determined by your quality of work. i don't give a shit if you are extremely smart, if that average kid puts out a better product than you he's doing better than you. if you're extremely knowledgeable you should be doing better than the average kid if you are putting out the same effort. it sounds like homework still accounts for a chunk of your mark and that is dragging you down. why don't you just.. iunno.. do it if it's that easy. everyone has to do monotonous tasks, that's the effort part of it. If you are acing every test without studying for them, I hardly think it should matter much whether you wrote that retarded pretend diary your english teacher wanted you to write for class. If you are told that the diary is part of your grade, then you'd better do it if you want a good grade. If it's not graded, then you're right. But that's stupid, because what matters is how good I am at English not whether I proved it by repeating an inane task 50 times to get a pat on the head. Yeah, I never liked school much.... Jinro has it right as well. A 0 only says that the teacher is pissed, and has put in 0 effort to evaluate his/her students. That's bullshit. The kid is the one putting in 0 effort, not the teacher. If he misses the test because he's sick, then fine, give him a retake, that's fair because being sick is usually out of your control. But if he just chooses not to go then why the hell should he be rewarded? How is that fair to all the other kids who showed for ALL 6 of the quizes? How is Failing a kid on a quiz rewarding them? On June 03 2012 03:09 sluggaslamoo wrote:On June 03 2012 03:07 Trezeguet wrote:On June 03 2012 03:04 sluggaslamoo wrote:On June 03 2012 02:52 Trezeguet wrote:
Teacher here.
Imagine you have a student who has gotten 100% on 5 of the 6 quizzes in your class. He answers every question right in class, and often enhances all of his peers' knowledge of a subject by leading class discussions to higher level of thinking. This kid misses the last quiz. So you give him a 0% right!?!? Kid averages a 83% B- student. What a joke.
Think of a 4 point scale where 4 is advanced, 3 is proficient, 2 is basic, and 1 is poor. Giving a student a 0/100 is like giving a kid a -6 on a 4 point scale. The point is that in some situations our grading system is beyond stupid and doesn't make mathematical sense. If teachers use grades as a weapon against students, the students learn less. Just becuase a kid doesn't hand in his homework doesn't mean that you can not assess him in a different way. I'm not saying that there should not be a consequence, just that some teachers can be dicks because they think they are teaching kids a lesson, when what they are mostly teaching the kid is that the teacher is a dick, and that the kid shouldn't pay the teacher much mind. Failing to hand in an assignment is different to being absent during a quiz. If you fail to hand in an assignment, it just means you didn't do any work, plain and simple. Even a half-finished assignment would give you more than a 0. If you don't hand it in at all, you did 0, according to the criteria that would tick off 0 checkpoints, so you get a 0. Dunno how I can make this any clearer. Yeah, but what if a kid works all night, and then gets everything wrong. 0 for that kid too? Also, kids do work that isn't something that will be graded. I don't grade on class participation, but that doesn't mean kids aren't working in my class. "Physics teacher Lynden Dorval gave students a zero for missed tests and assignments" READ THE DESCRIPTION!!!! Like I said above, a 40% is still failing. There is no reward. The point system is so heavy on the lower end if makes no sense mathematically. What does grading school have to do with it? We could theoretically switch 0-20% F, 20-40% D, etc etc. But colleges would then only look for people with A's, instead of those with A's and B's right now. It's not about the letter, it's about what it implies.
because a 0 will skew you average so that even if you try to make it up later (to do better later to compensate or whatever), it will make it difficult or almost impossible to do so without weighting grades differently you see?
assuming no weighting of grades for example, maybe i for
got to do an assignment oops i got a 0.
i try for hard from now on to do much better. i get a 100% on the next assignment, i'm still failing (50%)
i get another 100 (200/3), ii'm still in D range. of course this 100 scenario is highly unlikely, what if i'm just an average student and get 70's etc...?, then i could be going all semester and end up with a barely passing (or not passing grade).
translate that into GPA, it becomes so that after you do badly once with a 0, there is very little incentive to try hard anymore.
again this is assuming no weighting of grades, no special treatment, or no dropping of grades etc..
he's talking about the effect of outliers on arithmetic average (mainly at the lower end of the grading spectrum) and how that adversely affects your GPA by distorting incentives.
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wait, how is giving out zeroes for incomplete assignments warranted? since this is a physics class, i believe you should be able to receive partial credit for the work you've done. it's not like an english research paper or anything like that.
hmm i just read the video description and it said "Physics teacher Lynden Dorval gave students a zero for missed tests and assignments." how come the video only talked about incomplete assignments? wtf?
unless they're using the words incomplete and missed interchangeably..
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On June 03 2012 03:16 Trezeguet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 03:14 nennx wrote:
Honestly, you'd have to try fail a class. I can't believe we're having this discussion. If you fail a class, its because you 100% fucked up and its 100% your fault, its not the teachers fault. Every teacher lets you make up tests if they know before hand and you have a REAL excuse, and same goes for turning in homework (you can turn things in early, you know). This is a dumb discussion, if you're not willing to give someone a zero because they missed something, you aren't being a good teacher. Period. You really have no idea what it is like to be most kids. So many kids struggle in school, and this kid of attitude from kids who are not struggling makes me sick. A kid's mother's boyfriend shot the mother dead last week. The kid is doing terrible in my class. I guess I should just fail the kid ehh? Plenty of kids have trouble with math in particular, and they are working quite hard to improve. Are they A students? NO, but that does not mean I should fail them straight off.
I'm not quite seeing eye-to-eye with you. If a kid does not demonstrate sufficient understanding of the subject material, how could you do anything other than fail them? I understand that some kids have troubling external issues that may affect their grades and others may just not be comfortable with some subjects. But isn't it part of your responsibility as an educator to make sure that kids leave your class with at least some basic understanding of the subject?
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Wow i got alot of zeros in math B due to doing fuck all at test and my teacher was praised :< Shame that teacher with balls being put down
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On June 03 2012 03:24 Pazuzu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 03:21 sereniity wrote:On June 03 2012 03:14 Frozenzen wrote:On June 03 2012 03:10 sereniity wrote:On June 03 2012 03:05 Faveokatro wrote:
^ This. The "I'm too smart/knowledgeable I don't need to do homework" never made sense to me. If it was that easy for you, the assignment would take almost no time, right? I don't understand where this attitude comes from, I was taking multi-variable calc in middle school and guess what. I still did my homework. I wasn't special and you certainly aren't special for earning a B on an English test. Are you joking? That isn't even that good.
Yes because clearly easy homework can't be big, maybe it'd be easy to do it but easy doesn't mean not tedious, boring and most important of all fucking irrelevant since I've already proven I know this shit. The "nationella proven" in Sweden are the finals of the finals, they include everything you have done during the year and it's all compiled into about 5 different tests that you do, I averaged a B. Doesn't that mean that my knowledge qualifies me for the grade B? "That isn't even that good" well wether or not you think a B is good doesn't matter (fyi B is the new MVG, which was the highest previously in Sweden), seeing as I'm getting an F or E in the best case when I've clearly proven that I deserve more (in terms of what I know). Why are you getting an F or an E? Most teachers base most of their evaluation on the nationals, assuming you have actually attended class and handed in the assignments during the term. If you haven't handed in stuff during the term, then the teacher has no choice but to give you a lower grade, unless you do a prövning. Basically, do the shit you are assigned to do or suffer the consequences, or if you are as smart as you think you are then do a prövning to get away from what you see as busywork. As I said earlier, I've only attended 60% of the class because of issues with the teacher, now please before you fucking repeat what everybody in this thread does "herp derp you'll have bad bosses aswell" please note that it's not just her being a bad teacher, it's her talking shit about us openly and whatnot (which she will hopefully pay for, now that all of our parents are involved...) And as I also said earlier, I didn't even know that "prövning" existed, now that I do I will check it out. My teacher said that if I do all the assignments I've missed (only 2, which I am indeed completing) I will get an E. lets keep this civil if we can. Learning how to operate with someone you have issues with above IS incredibly important. If the only reason why you're getting an E instead of a B is because the teacher has a vendetta against you, then that will be easily resolved by the school board
Agreed. I got past high school successfully with straight As while the more than half the school faculty HATED me (seriously, out of everyone in my year that graduated, I was the only one with an F for behaviour) and 60% attendance. Its all about working on your own at home if you have incompetent teachers and sucking up and doing the graded work coz you know it's important. The teacher's gonna last what, a year? Your grades might determine your college which would subsequently decide your job.
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On June 03 2012 03:25 billy5000 wrote:
wait, how is giving out zeroes for incomplete assignments warranted? since this is a physics class, i believe you should be able to receive partial credit for the work you've done. it's not like an english research paper or anything like that.
hmm i just read the video description and it said "Physics teacher Lynden Dorval gave students a zero for missed tests and assignments." how come the video only talked about incomplete assignments? wtf?
This is what the shitstorm started from. The news story lacks the clarification, since in all likely hood that would make the case much less exciting. I have a feeling it's 0's for missed assignments not partially done ones; partial credit is ubiquitous in high schools.
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On June 03 2012 03:21 sereniity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 03:14 Frozenzen wrote:On June 03 2012 03:10 sereniity wrote:On June 03 2012 03:05 Faveokatro wrote:
^ This. The "I'm too smart/knowledgeable I don't need to do homework" never made sense to me. If it was that easy for you, the assignment would take almost no time, right? I don't understand where this attitude comes from, I was taking multi-variable calc in middle school and guess what. I still did my homework. I wasn't special and you certainly aren't special for earning a B on an English test. Are you joking? That isn't even that good.
Yes because clearly easy homework can't be big, maybe it'd be easy to do it but easy doesn't mean not tedious, boring and most important of all fucking irrelevant since I've already proven I know this shit. The "nationella proven" in Sweden are the finals of the finals, they include everything you have done during the year and it's all compiled into about 5 different tests that you do, I averaged a B. Doesn't that mean that my knowledge qualifies me for the grade B? "That isn't even that good" well wether or not you think a B is good doesn't matter (fyi B is the new MVG, which was the highest previously in Sweden), seeing as I'm getting an F or E in the best case when I've clearly proven that I deserve more (in terms of what I know). Why are you getting an F or an E? Most teachers base most of their evaluation on the nationals, assuming you have actually attended class and handed in the assignments during the term. If you haven't handed in stuff during the term, then the teacher has no choice but to give you a lower grade, unless you do a prövning. Basically, do the shit you are assigned to do or suffer the consequences, or if you are as smart as you think you are then do a prövning to get away from what you see as busywork. As I said earlier, I've only attended 60% of the class because of issues with the teacher, now please before you fucking repeat what everybody in this thread does "herp derp you'll have bad bosses aswell" please note that it's not just her being a bad teacher, it's her talking shit about us openly and whatnot (which she will hopefully pay for, now that all of our parents are involved...) And as I also said earlier, I didn't even know that "prövning" existed, now that I do I will check it out. My teacher said that if I do all the assignments I've missed (only 2, which I am indeed completing) I will get an E.
This sounds like one of the few cases it might actually be related to a bad teacher, you'll have to forgive people for being dismissive, as in 95% of all cases it's just entitled kids whining about stuff they have to learn how to handle.
And well, you may have live with bosses being really really rude and just deal with it, since jobs can be hard to come by. Be happy you can get your parents help to get rid of a terrible teacher.
In general though, often the teachers are bound by rules and regulations, if you don't follow the kursplan it can really bite your ass. Which means things students see as irrelevant might be important due to arbitrary rules.
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On June 03 2012 03:21 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 03:16 Trezeguet wrote:On June 03 2012 03:14 nennx wrote:
Honestly, you'd have to try fail a class. I can't believe we're having this discussion. If you fail a class, its because you 100% fucked up and its 100% your fault, its not the teachers fault. Every teacher lets you make up tests if they know before hand and you have a REAL excuse, and same goes for turning in homework (you can turn things in early, you know). This is a dumb discussion, if you're not willing to give someone a zero because they missed something, you aren't being a good teacher. Period. You really have no idea what it is like to be most kids. So many kids struggle in school, and this kid of attitude from kids who are not struggling makes me sick. A kid's mother's boyfriend shot the mother dead last week. The kid is doing terrible in my class. I guess I should just fail the kid ehh? Plenty of kids have trouble with math in particular, and they are working quite hard to improve. Are they A students? NO, but that does not mean I should fail them straight off. Sorry, but you cannot let people pass exams because of personal tragedies that had fallen upon them. They deserve special care, they deserve psycological support, but they do not deserve to pass the course. In the end, you won't do them a favor if you put them into a more advanced class if they haven't understood the easier topics before.
I know what you mean, but that isn't exactly my point. Probably my fault. What I am trying to get at is that when students do 0% of the homework, they haven't done 0 work if they are active in my class and participating. That is work too, and I can reward that with a higher than a 0% on the homework. You are right though that when this kid does none of the work outside of class for the rest of the year, there will be other ways in which I will be evaluating the kid's knowledge. Sure, the kid will have less work to do than the others but no one would want to trade shoes.
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My mother is a teacher at a middle school currently and they aren't allowed to give grades below 60. So she'll have a student that does shit all semester not doing the assignments, not doing tests but hey, they get a 60!
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On June 03 2012 03:28 Trezeguet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 03:21 JustPassingBy wrote:On June 03 2012 03:16 Trezeguet wrote:On June 03 2012 03:14 nennx wrote:
Honestly, you'd have to try fail a class. I can't believe we're having this discussion. If you fail a class, its because you 100% fucked up and its 100% your fault, its not the teachers fault. Every teacher lets you make up tests if they know before hand and you have a REAL excuse, and same goes for turning in homework (you can turn things in early, you know). This is a dumb discussion, if you're not willing to give someone a zero because they missed something, you aren't being a good teacher. Period. You really have no idea what it is like to be most kids. So many kids struggle in school, and this kid of attitude from kids who are not struggling makes me sick. A kid's mother's boyfriend shot the mother dead last week. The kid is doing terrible in my class. I guess I should just fail the kid ehh? Plenty of kids have trouble with math in particular, and they are working quite hard to improve. Are they A students? NO, but that does not mean I should fail them straight off. Sorry, but you cannot let people pass exams because of personal tragedies that had fallen upon them. They deserve special care, they deserve psycological support, but they do not deserve to pass the course. In the end, you won't do them a favor if you put them into a more advanced class if they haven't understood the easier topics before. I know what you mean, but that isn't exactly my point. Probably my fault. What I am trying to get at is that when students do 0% of the homework, they haven't done 0 work if they are active in my class and participating. That is work too, and I can reward that with a higher than a 0% on the homework. You are right though that when this kid does none of the work outside of class for the rest of the year, there will be other ways in which I will be evaluating the kid's knowledge. Sure, the kid will have less work to do than the others but no one would want to trade shoes.
Well said and reasoned. Thanks for clarifying i was confused too
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Please put this in the OP
http://www.cbc.ca/news/offbeat/story/2012/05/31/edmonton-teacher-zeros-sheppard.html
Dorval said he always gave uncompleted work what is called "reluctant zeros," where his students were given a number of opportunities to make up the assignment and have the zero replaced with a mark.
"Most of my students did that," he said. "By the end of the year, I hardly had any zeros at all."
He does recall however, one student who had only completed six of 15 items.
Parents are largely unaware of the policy, as teachers were instructed not to speak about it, he said.
Other schools in the Edmonton public system also use no-zero marking, he said.
It is clear that he gives several opportunities for students to not get a 0. The only time students get a 0, is when they are obviously adamant on getting a 0.
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On June 03 2012 03:05 Faveokatro wrote:
^ This. The "I'm too smart/knowledgeable I don't need to do homework" never made sense to me. If it was that easy for you, the assignment would take almost no time, right? I don't understand where this attitude comes from, I was taking multi-variable calc in middle school and guess what. I still did my homework. I wasn't special and you certainly aren't special for earning a B on an English test. Are you joking? That isn't even that good.
As pointed out by others, the most common excuses of "my teacher sucks" or "my teacher is an asshole" are equally irrelevant. You'll have shitty professors, you'll have shitty bosses, you'll deal with a LOT of crappy coworkers in your life. The value you bring isn't solely in the quality of work you produce - even more solitary/quantifiable work like research is now very team-based. You need to learn how to tolerate and make the best of situations with people you don't like. Since you seem to think that those rules don't apply to when you enter "the real world," let me assure you that that isn't the case. Even as a personal trainer, you have bosses. Many of them. They're called clients.
Uh what. Easy things can be very time consuming. And when it's easy and time consuming, it's tedious.
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|
|
|
EPT
