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On June 03 2012 03:07 Trezeguet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 03:04 sluggaslamoo wrote:On June 03 2012 02:52 Trezeguet wrote:
Teacher here.
Imagine you have a student who has gotten 100% on 5 of the 6 quizzes in your class. He answers every question right in class, and often enhances all of his peers' knowledge of a subject by leading class discussions to higher level of thinking. This kid misses the last quiz. So you give him a 0% right!?!? Kid averages a 83% B- student. What a joke.
Think of a 4 point scale where 4 is advanced, 3 is proficient, 2 is basic, and 1 is poor. Giving a student a 0/100 is like giving a kid a -6 on a 4 point scale. The point is that in some situations our grading system is beyond stupid and doesn't make mathematical sense. If teachers use grades as a weapon against students, the students learn less. Just becuase a kid doesn't hand in his homework doesn't mean that you can not assess him in a different way. I'm not saying that there should not be a consequence, just that some teachers can be dicks because they think they are teaching kids a lesson, when what they are mostly teaching the kid is that the teacher is a dick, and that the kid shouldn't pay the teacher much mind. Failing to hand in an assignment is different to being absent during a quiz. If you fail to hand in an assignment, it just means you didn't do any work, plain and simple. Even a half-finished assignment would give you more than a 0. If you don't hand it in at all, you did 0, according to the criteria that would tick off 0 checkpoints, so you get a 0. Dunno how I can make this any clearer. Yeah, but what if a kid works all night, and then gets everything wrong. 0 for that kid too? Also, kids do work that isn't something that will be graded. I don't grade on class participation, but that doesn't mean kids aren't working in my class.
READ THE DESCRIPTION!!!!
"Physics teacher Lynden Dorval gave students a zero for missed tests and assignments"
Get a pass for not handing in an assignment and not attending tests. Sounds like a sweet deal, amirite?
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On June 03 2012 03:06 1Eris1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 03:02 Trezeguet wrote:On June 03 2012 02:59 dreamsmasher wrote:On June 03 2012 02:57 nennx wrote:On June 03 2012 02:52 Trezeguet wrote:
Teacher here.
Imagine you have a student who has gotten 100% on 5 of the 6 quizzes in your class. He answers every question right in class, and often enhances all of his peers' knowledge of a subject by leading class discussions to higher level of thinking. This kid misses the last quiz. So you give him a 0% right!?!? Kid averages a 83% B- student. What a joke.
Think of a 4 point scale where 4 is advanced, 3 is proficient, 2 is basic, and 1 is poor. Giving a student a 0/100 is like giving a kid a -6 on a 4 point scale. The point is that in some situations our grading system is beyond stupid and doesn't make mathematical sense. If teachers use grades as a weapon against students, the students learn less. Just becuase a kid doesn't hand in his homework doesn't mean that you can not assess him in a different way. I'm not saying that there should not be a consequence, just that some teachers can be dicks because they think they are teaching kids a lesson, when what they are mostly teaching the kid is that the teacher is a dick, and that the kid shouldn't pay the teacher much mind. Kid misses quiz, how can you even know if he knows anything that was supposed to be on the quiz? You're saying that because the kid proved he knew 83% of the subject, he should get an A? Sure, thats fine if your scale includes 83+ to be an A, but otherwise not. Who doesn't give makeup quizes anyways?? It actually makes perfect mathematical sense. i think what he means is a 70% corresponds to a 2.0 and a 1.0 corresponds to a 60 or whatever a D is. etc.. Exactly. On June 03 2012 03:00 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On June 03 2012 02:28 Kaitlin wrote:On June 03 2012 02:18 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On June 03 2012 02:00 shawster wrote:On June 03 2012 01:47 sereniity wrote:
As I go to school myself I find this a very interesting subject, a question I often bring up is "Are your grades a reflection of your knowledge/skill, or your work put into the class?"
Basically, I feel that even if my english is good enough for grade A, I cannot achieve it unless I come to almost every class and do every piece of homework, even if I get very high scores on my tests. Is this right or wrong?
In my own perfect world, a grade would reflect how a good a certain student is at said subject, not how much time dedicated into it. I know a guy in my english class who is terrible at english, yet he's given grade C. The only reason for that is because he did his homework and was nice to the teacher.
Me on the other hand, had a grudge with the teacher (along with the rest of the class) and I've been having constant meetings with the principal to get ourselves a new teacher (she has a terrible attitude and constantly mocks us, has an aura of prestige as if we're crap and she's the best, yet she can't even spell the word boulder).
Anyway, back on topic, I'm getting an E this year because I basically haven't come to many of her lessons (I have about 60% attendance rate). I did however get a B on my final exams (called 'Nationella Proven' in Sweden).
Maybe this was abit off-topic, I got abit carried away :D... totally disagree with you you're saying that intelligence should be your mark and effort should be less of it. come on now, how successful you are at a certain job is determined by your quality of work. i don't give a shit if you are extremely smart, if that average kid puts out a better product than you he's doing better than you. if you're extremely knowledgeable you should be doing better than the average kid if you are putting out the same effort. it sounds like homework still accounts for a chunk of your mark and that is dragging you down. why don't you just.. iunno.. do it if it's that easy. everyone has to do monotonous tasks, that's the effort part of it. If you are acing every test without studying for them, I hardly think it should matter much whether you wrote that retarded pretend diary your english teacher wanted you to write for class. If you are told that the diary is part of your grade, then you'd better do it if you want a good grade. If it's not graded, then you're right. But that's stupid, because what matters is how good I am at English not whether I proved it by repeating an inane task 50 times to get a pat on the head. Yeah, I never liked school much.... Jinro has it right as well. A 0 only says that the teacher is pissed, and has put in 0 effort to evaluate his/her students. That's bullshit. The kid is the one putting in 0 effort, not the teacher. If he misses the test because he's sick, then fine, give him a retake, that's fair because being sick is usually out of your control. But if he just chooses not to go then why the hell should he be rewarded? How is that fair to all the other kids who showed for ALL 6 of the quizes?
How is Failing a kid on a quiz rewarding them?
On June 03 2012 03:09 sluggaslamoo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 03:07 Trezeguet wrote:On June 03 2012 03:04 sluggaslamoo wrote:On June 03 2012 02:52 Trezeguet wrote:
Teacher here.
Imagine you have a student who has gotten 100% on 5 of the 6 quizzes in your class. He answers every question right in class, and often enhances all of his peers' knowledge of a subject by leading class discussions to higher level of thinking. This kid misses the last quiz. So you give him a 0% right!?!? Kid averages a 83% B- student. What a joke.
Think of a 4 point scale where 4 is advanced, 3 is proficient, 2 is basic, and 1 is poor. Giving a student a 0/100 is like giving a kid a -6 on a 4 point scale. The point is that in some situations our grading system is beyond stupid and doesn't make mathematical sense. If teachers use grades as a weapon against students, the students learn less. Just becuase a kid doesn't hand in his homework doesn't mean that you can not assess him in a different way. I'm not saying that there should not be a consequence, just that some teachers can be dicks because they think they are teaching kids a lesson, when what they are mostly teaching the kid is that the teacher is a dick, and that the kid shouldn't pay the teacher much mind. Failing to hand in an assignment is different to being absent during a quiz. If you fail to hand in an assignment, it just means you didn't do any work, plain and simple. Even a half-finished assignment would give you more than a 0. If you don't hand it in at all, you did 0, according to the criteria that would tick off 0 checkpoints, so you get a 0. Dunno how I can make this any clearer. Yeah, but what if a kid works all night, and then gets everything wrong. 0 for that kid too? Also, kids do work that isn't something that will be graded. I don't grade on class participation, but that doesn't mean kids aren't working in my class. "Physics teacher Lynden Dorval gave students a zero for missed tests and assignments" READ THE DESCRIPTION!!!!
Like I said above, a 40% is still failing. There is no reward. The point system is so heavy on the lower end if makes no sense mathematically.
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On June 03 2012 03:05 Faveokatro wrote:
^ This. The "I'm too smart/knowledgeable I don't need to do homework" never made sense to me. If it was that easy for you, the assignment would take almost no time, right? I don't understand where this attitude comes from, I was taking multi-variable calc in middle school and guess what. I still did my homework. I wasn't special and you certainly aren't special for earning a B on an English test. Are you joking? That isn't even that good.
Yes because clearly easy homework can't be big, maybe it'd be easy to do it but easy doesn't mean not tedious, boring and most important of all fucking irrelevant since I've already proven I know this shit.
The "nationella proven" in Sweden are the finals of the finals, they include everything you have done during the year and it's all compiled into about 5 different tests that you do, I averaged a B. Doesn't that mean that my knowledge qualifies me for the grade B?
"That isn't even that good" well wether or not you think a B is good doesn't matter (fyi B is the new MVG, which was the highest previously in Sweden), seeing as I'm getting an F or E in the best case when I've clearly proven that I deserve more (in terms of what I know).
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Imo, and this is coming from someone who honestly thought that he was too smart for high school as well.
If the kid is actually intelligent enough in the subject, but is still too thick / arrogant to bother doing an assignment (most of which if you were actually as good as you thought you were, would take less than an hour of your oh so precious high school teen life), he doesn't deserve squat.
If you didn't bother to do an assignment / take a test, you obviously made a statement about how much you want the grades.
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On June 03 2012 03:07 Trezeguet wrote:
Yeah, but what if a kid works all night, and then gets everything wrong. 0 for that kid too? Also, kids do work that isn't something that will be graded. I don't grade on class participation, but that doesn't mean kids aren't working in my class.
No? Why would you give someone a zero for getting everything wrong. No reasonable teacher does that.
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On June 03 2012 03:05 Faveokatro wrote:
^ This. The "I'm too smart/knowledgeable I don't need to do homework" never made sense to me. If it was that easy for you, the assignment would take almost no time, right? I don't understand where this attitude comes from, I was taking multi-variable calc in middle school and guess what. I still did my homework. I wasn't special and you certainly aren't special for earning a B on an English test. Are you joking? That isn't even that good.
As pointed out by others, the most common excuses of "my teacher sucks" or "my teacher is an asshole" are equally irrelevant. You'll have shitty professors, you'll have shitty bosses, you'll deal with a LOT of crappy coworkers in your life. The value you bring isn't solely in the quality of work you produce - even more solitary/quantifiable work like research is now very team-based. You need to learn how to tolerate and make the best of situations with people you don't like. Since you seem to think that those rules don't apply to when you enter "the real world," let me assure you that that isn't the case. Even as a personal trainer, you have bosses. Many of them. They're called clients.
you're lucky then to go to a school system that allows you to do that.
i skipped 2 years in math and even then i remember having a lot of difficulty doing so, many school officials are extremely reluctant to ALLOW you to do this kind of thing, only in GOOD school districts (aka you parents make a good living) that you are allowed to do something. if i was allowed to take calculus early, i probably would have thought math was more interesting etc... instead you have to trudge through years of algebra (like essentially algebra 2 is the same as algebra 1, precalc could be learned with algebra 2 etc...)
this work analogy is absolutely fucking terrible. you are paid for your work, your time, school is not the same at all. if it is boring, who the fuck cares get paid blow trees right.
actually what you say is false, have you never gone to a weed out course, where they give you a ton of easy monotonous work that simply occupies a lot of time?
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On June 03 2012 03:07 Trezeguet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 03:04 sluggaslamoo wrote:On June 03 2012 02:52 Trezeguet wrote:
Teacher here.
Imagine you have a student who has gotten 100% on 5 of the 6 quizzes in your class. He answers every question right in class, and often enhances all of his peers' knowledge of a subject by leading class discussions to higher level of thinking. This kid misses the last quiz. So you give him a 0% right!?!? Kid averages a 83% B- student. What a joke.
Think of a 4 point scale where 4 is advanced, 3 is proficient, 2 is basic, and 1 is poor. Giving a student a 0/100 is like giving a kid a -6 on a 4 point scale. The point is that in some situations our grading system is beyond stupid and doesn't make mathematical sense. If teachers use grades as a weapon against students, the students learn less. Just becuase a kid doesn't hand in his homework doesn't mean that you can not assess him in a different way. I'm not saying that there should not be a consequence, just that some teachers can be dicks because they think they are teaching kids a lesson, when what they are mostly teaching the kid is that the teacher is a dick, and that the kid shouldn't pay the teacher much mind. Failing to hand in an assignment is different to being absent during a quiz. If you fail to hand in an assignment, it just means you didn't do any work, plain and simple. Even a half-finished assignment would give you more than a 0. If you don't hand it in at all, you did 0, according to the criteria that would tick off 0 checkpoints, so you get a 0. Dunno how I can make this any clearer. Yeah, but what if a kid works all night, and then gets everything wrong. 0 for that kid too? Also, kids do work that isn't something that will be graded. I don't grade on class participation, but that doesn't mean kids aren't working in my class.
a turned in, half completed assignment wouldn't get a 0. Thats why the concept of partial credit exists. Not handing in the assignment at all makes it irrelevant if they started it or not. if they have work, they will submit it. I'm not saying if you miss a single deadline youre completely screwed, but its the same as with missing a quiz. If you miss it, and after a fair amount of time there has been no attempt to make it up or submit it late, yes that does deserve a 0.
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100-90 A __________4 A
90-80 B _________ 3 B
80-70 C ____________2 C
70-60 D ___________ 1 D
60-50 F ___________ 0 F
50-40 F ___________ -1 F
40-30 F
30-20 F
20-10 F
10-0 F _____________-5 F
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Am I the only one who clicked the link and thought "oh thank you it's not in the U.S again". haha. The news on TL just gets more and more depressing.
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On June 03 2012 03:10 sereniity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 03:05 Faveokatro wrote:
^ This. The "I'm too smart/knowledgeable I don't need to do homework" never made sense to me. If it was that easy for you, the assignment would take almost no time, right? I don't understand where this attitude comes from, I was taking multi-variable calc in middle school and guess what. I still did my homework. I wasn't special and you certainly aren't special for earning a B on an English test. Are you joking? That isn't even that good.
Yes because clearly easy homework can't be big, maybe it'd be easy to do it but easy doesn't mean not tedious, boring and most important of all fucking irrelevant since I've already proven I know this shit. The "nationella proven" in Sweden are the finals of the finals, they include everything you have done during the year and it's all compiled into about 5 different tests that you do, I averaged a B. Doesn't that mean that my knowledge qualifies me for the grade B? "That isn't even that good" well wether or not you think a B is good doesn't matter (fyi B is the new MVG, which was the highest previously in Sweden), seeing as I'm getting an F or E in the best case when I've clearly proven that I deserve more (in terms of what I know).
Why are you getting an F or an E? Most teachers base most of their evaluation on the nationals, assuming you have actually attended class and handed in the assignments during the term. If you haven't handed in stuff during the term, then the teacher has no choice but to give you a lower grade, unless you do a prövning.
Basically, do the shit you are assigned to do or suffer the consequences, or if you are as smart as you think you are then do a prövning to get away from what you see as busywork.
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Honestly, you'd have to try fail a class. I can't believe we're having this discussion. If you fail a class, its because you 100% fucked up and its 100% your fault, its not the teachers fault. Every teacher lets you make up tests if they know before hand and you have a REAL excuse, and same goes for turning in homework (you can turn things in early, you know). This is a dumb discussion, if you're not willing to give someone a zero because they missed something, you aren't being a good/responsible teacher. Period.
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what the OP is missing (not their fault ofc) and what the news isn't clarifying on (to make a better story) is if the students missed the exam and CHOSE not to make it up, or simply missed and he gave a 0 without a chance for make up. If you have an exam and choose not to go to it without a legitimate reason absolutely thats a 0. you did no work, you deserve no credit. however if they missed it, were absent or something, and he didn't let them make it up thatd be different
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On June 03 2012 03:11 dreamsmasher wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 03:05 Faveokatro wrote:
^ This. The "I'm too smart/knowledgeable I don't need to do homework" never made sense to me. If it was that easy for you, the assignment would take almost no time, right? I don't understand where this attitude comes from, I was taking multi-variable calc in middle school and guess what. I still did my homework. I wasn't special and you certainly aren't special for earning a B on an English test. Are you joking? That isn't even that good.
As pointed out by others, the most common excuses of "my teacher sucks" or "my teacher is an asshole" are equally irrelevant. You'll have shitty professors, you'll have shitty bosses, you'll deal with a LOT of crappy coworkers in your life. The value you bring isn't solely in the quality of work you produce - even more solitary/quantifiable work like research is now very team-based. You need to learn how to tolerate and make the best of situations with people you don't like. Since you seem to think that those rules don't apply to when you enter "the real world," let me assure you that that isn't the case. Even as a personal trainer, you have bosses. Many of them. They're called clients. you're lucky then to go to a school system that allows you to do that. i skipped 2 years in math and even then i remember having a lot of difficulty doing so, many school officials are extremely reluctant to ALLOW you to do this kind of thing, only in GOOD school districts (aka you parents make a good living) that you are allowed to do something. if i was allowed to take calculus early, i probably would have thought math was more interesting etc... instead you have to trudge through years of algebra (like essentially algebra 2 is the same as algebra 1, precalc could be learned with algebra 2 etc...) this work analogy is absolutely fucking terrible. you are paid for your work, your time, school is not the same at all. if it is boring, who the fuck cares get paid blow trees right.
No it's actually a great analogy. You might not know it but what happens in school, especially high school matters forever. Many jobs require you to have transcripts of your grades when you apply. So yes, you are in a sense getting paid to go to school.
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United States24671 Posts
There are a few issues here.
The first is that the teacher was insubordinate. The school's decision that teachers shouldn't given zeroes might be good, or it might be the dumbest idea ever. They made their decision, either way. They told the teacher not to give zeroes. He gave zeroes. That's insubordination.
The sad thing is how often this seems to happen in public schools. The board of education or administration comes up with rules and mandates for the teacher to follow that completely undermine instruction and are horribly counter productive, and the teachers are powerless to do anything about it. Sometimes teacher tenure helps to alleviating some of this, but the teacher in the OP has been teaching for over 30 years so seniority isn't necessarily enough to combat this issue.
The second issue is the policy to not give zeroes. As Trezeguet pointed out, giving zeroes is not always the right thing to do. It's not about giving kids free points. The first thing to consider is how arbitrary our 100 point scale is, as well as the cutoffs for mastery, passing, failing, etc.. The second thing to consider is that some grading systems have been found (through significant amounts of research) to have more of an overall positive effect on student learning than others. Giving a kid who doesn't complete some work early in the year zeroes with no chance to earn back some of the credit maybe be perfectly fair, but it could also guarantee that the kid will fail the class for the rest of the year. Not only will he be less likely to get his act together and try to bring his average up from <40% to >70% (versus <60% on a less brutal grading scheme), but he will be more likely to be a disruption in class which will negatively impact other learners since he's not learning himself. Grading schemes that punish students to teach them a lesson don't necessarily teach students a lesson.
On June 03 2012 03:14 nennx wrote:
Honestly, you'd have to try fail a class. I can't believe we're having this discussion. If you fail a class, its because you 100% fucked up and its 100% your fault, its not the teachers fault. Every teacher lets you make up tests if they know before hand and you have a REAL excuse, and same goes for turning in homework (you can turn things in early, you know). This is a dumb discussion, if you're not willing to give someone a zero because they missed something, you aren't being a good/responsible teacher. Period.
This type of attitude as an educator results in a less educated general public.
Putting 'period' at the end of a post on tl seems to correlate strongly with someone who is very firm in their beliefs without any evidence to back them up.
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On June 03 2012 03:14 nennx wrote:
Honestly, you'd have to try fail a class. I can't believe we're having this discussion. If you fail a class, its because you 100% fucked up and its 100% your fault, its not the teachers fault. Every teacher lets you make up tests if they know before hand and you have a REAL excuse, and same goes for turning in homework (you can turn things in early, you know). This is a dumb discussion, if you're not willing to give someone a zero because they missed something, you aren't being a good teacher. Period.
You really have no idea what it is like to be most kids. So many kids struggle in school, and this kid of attitude from kids who are not struggling makes me sick. A kid's mother's boyfriend shot the mother dead last week. The kid is doing terrible in my class. I guess I should just fail the kid ehh? Plenty of kids have trouble with math in particular, and they are working quite hard to improve. Are they A students? NO, but that does not mean I should fail them straight off.
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On June 03 2012 01:52 Roachu wrote:
I imagine Canada have clear course descriptions like we have in Sweden and here we fail the fucking course if we don't meet the requirements. In Sweden we have IG (Swedish: icke godkänd, rough translation: YOU DID NOT PASS) and if you don't pass your assignments and tests you don't pass the course. This is totally warranted and everything else is bullshit.
Edit: I'm going to university now where they are more strict overall but IMO the same attitude should show across the board. It might be a shock to some kids in high school but education is one of the most important things in they world and if they don't understand what a 0 means for them they will suffer for it in the future.
As long as it's not "YOU SHALL NOT PASS"... ;-)
And yeah, the case is totally not understandable for me, would interest me to hear the opinion of somebody who is on the side of the school.
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On June 03 2012 03:09 Trezeguet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 03:06 1Eris1 wrote:On June 03 2012 03:02 Trezeguet wrote:On June 03 2012 02:59 dreamsmasher wrote:On June 03 2012 02:57 nennx wrote:On June 03 2012 02:52 Trezeguet wrote:
Teacher here.
Imagine you have a student who has gotten 100% on 5 of the 6 quizzes in your class. He answers every question right in class, and often enhances all of his peers' knowledge of a subject by leading class discussions to higher level of thinking. This kid misses the last quiz. So you give him a 0% right!?!? Kid averages a 83% B- student. What a joke.
Think of a 4 point scale where 4 is advanced, 3 is proficient, 2 is basic, and 1 is poor. Giving a student a 0/100 is like giving a kid a -6 on a 4 point scale. The point is that in some situations our grading system is beyond stupid and doesn't make mathematical sense. If teachers use grades as a weapon against students, the students learn less. Just becuase a kid doesn't hand in his homework doesn't mean that you can not assess him in a different way. I'm not saying that there should not be a consequence, just that some teachers can be dicks because they think they are teaching kids a lesson, when what they are mostly teaching the kid is that the teacher is a dick, and that the kid shouldn't pay the teacher much mind. Kid misses quiz, how can you even know if he knows anything that was supposed to be on the quiz? You're saying that because the kid proved he knew 83% of the subject, he should get an A? Sure, thats fine if your scale includes 83+ to be an A, but otherwise not. Who doesn't give makeup quizes anyways?? It actually makes perfect mathematical sense. i think what he means is a 70% corresponds to a 2.0 and a 1.0 corresponds to a 60 or whatever a D is. etc.. Exactly. On June 03 2012 03:00 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On June 03 2012 02:28 Kaitlin wrote:On June 03 2012 02:18 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On June 03 2012 02:00 shawster wrote:On June 03 2012 01:47 sereniity wrote:
As I go to school myself I find this a very interesting subject, a question I often bring up is "Are your grades a reflection of your knowledge/skill, or your work put into the class?"
Basically, I feel that even if my english is good enough for grade A, I cannot achieve it unless I come to almost every class and do every piece of homework, even if I get very high scores on my tests. Is this right or wrong?
In my own perfect world, a grade would reflect how a good a certain student is at said subject, not how much time dedicated into it. I know a guy in my english class who is terrible at english, yet he's given grade C. The only reason for that is because he did his homework and was nice to the teacher.
Me on the other hand, had a grudge with the teacher (along with the rest of the class) and I've been having constant meetings with the principal to get ourselves a new teacher (she has a terrible attitude and constantly mocks us, has an aura of prestige as if we're crap and she's the best, yet she can't even spell the word boulder).
Anyway, back on topic, I'm getting an E this year because I basically haven't come to many of her lessons (I have about 60% attendance rate). I did however get a B on my final exams (called 'Nationella Proven' in Sweden).
Maybe this was abit off-topic, I got abit carried away :D... totally disagree with you you're saying that intelligence should be your mark and effort should be less of it. come on now, how successful you are at a certain job is determined by your quality of work. i don't give a shit if you are extremely smart, if that average kid puts out a better product than you he's doing better than you. if you're extremely knowledgeable you should be doing better than the average kid if you are putting out the same effort. it sounds like homework still accounts for a chunk of your mark and that is dragging you down. why don't you just.. iunno.. do it if it's that easy. everyone has to do monotonous tasks, that's the effort part of it. If you are acing every test without studying for them, I hardly think it should matter much whether you wrote that retarded pretend diary your english teacher wanted you to write for class. If you are told that the diary is part of your grade, then you'd better do it if you want a good grade. If it's not graded, then you're right. But that's stupid, because what matters is how good I am at English not whether I proved it by repeating an inane task 50 times to get a pat on the head. Yeah, I never liked school much.... Jinro has it right as well. A 0 only says that the teacher is pissed, and has put in 0 effort to evaluate his/her students. That's bullshit. The kid is the one putting in 0 effort, not the teacher. If he misses the test because he's sick, then fine, give him a retake, that's fair because being sick is usually out of your control. But if he just chooses not to go then why the hell should he be rewarded? How is that fair to all the other kids who showed for ALL 6 of the quizes? How is Failing a kid on a quiz rewarding them? Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 03:09 sluggaslamoo wrote:On June 03 2012 03:07 Trezeguet wrote:On June 03 2012 03:04 sluggaslamoo wrote:On June 03 2012 02:52 Trezeguet wrote:
Teacher here.
Imagine you have a student who has gotten 100% on 5 of the 6 quizzes in your class. He answers every question right in class, and often enhances all of his peers' knowledge of a subject by leading class discussions to higher level of thinking. This kid misses the last quiz. So you give him a 0% right!?!? Kid averages a 83% B- student. What a joke.
Think of a 4 point scale where 4 is advanced, 3 is proficient, 2 is basic, and 1 is poor. Giving a student a 0/100 is like giving a kid a -6 on a 4 point scale. The point is that in some situations our grading system is beyond stupid and doesn't make mathematical sense. If teachers use grades as a weapon against students, the students learn less. Just becuase a kid doesn't hand in his homework doesn't mean that you can not assess him in a different way. I'm not saying that there should not be a consequence, just that some teachers can be dicks because they think they are teaching kids a lesson, when what they are mostly teaching the kid is that the teacher is a dick, and that the kid shouldn't pay the teacher much mind. Failing to hand in an assignment is different to being absent during a quiz. If you fail to hand in an assignment, it just means you didn't do any work, plain and simple. Even a half-finished assignment would give you more than a 0. If you don't hand it in at all, you did 0, according to the criteria that would tick off 0 checkpoints, so you get a 0. Dunno how I can make this any clearer. Yeah, but what if a kid works all night, and then gets everything wrong. 0 for that kid too? Also, kids do work that isn't something that will be graded. I don't grade on class participation, but that doesn't mean kids aren't working in my class. "Physics teacher Lynden Dorval gave students a zero for missed tests and assignments" READ THE DESCRIPTION!!!! Like I said above, a 40% is still failing. There is no reward. The point system is so heavy on the lower end if makes no sense mathematically.
What does grading school have to do with it? We could theoretically switch 0-20% F, 20-40% D, etc etc. But colleges would then only look for people with A's, instead of those with A's and B's right now. It's not about the letter, it's about what it implies.
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I'm still checking the page elements on that for a link from The Onion. I so very much want to believe that people are smarter than this. Why.jpeg
So what normally happens in this school when people don't do work? They get good grades anyway? Maybe it's like a welfare or communism simulation, where they take grade percentages from the harder working kids and divide them among the lazy to evenly spread the grades.
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On June 03 2012 03:15 Magic_Mike wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 03:11 dreamsmasher wrote:On June 03 2012 03:05 Faveokatro wrote:
^ This. The "I'm too smart/knowledgeable I don't need to do homework" never made sense to me. If it was that easy for you, the assignment would take almost no time, right? I don't understand where this attitude comes from, I was taking multi-variable calc in middle school and guess what. I still did my homework. I wasn't special and you certainly aren't special for earning a B on an English test. Are you joking? That isn't even that good.
As pointed out by others, the most common excuses of "my teacher sucks" or "my teacher is an asshole" are equally irrelevant. You'll have shitty professors, you'll have shitty bosses, you'll deal with a LOT of crappy coworkers in your life. The value you bring isn't solely in the quality of work you produce - even more solitary/quantifiable work like research is now very team-based. You need to learn how to tolerate and make the best of situations with people you don't like. Since you seem to think that those rules don't apply to when you enter "the real world," let me assure you that that isn't the case. Even as a personal trainer, you have bosses. Many of them. They're called clients. you're lucky then to go to a school system that allows you to do that. i skipped 2 years in math and even then i remember having a lot of difficulty doing so, many school officials are extremely reluctant to ALLOW you to do this kind of thing, only in GOOD school districts (aka you parents make a good living) that you are allowed to do something. if i was allowed to take calculus early, i probably would have thought math was more interesting etc... instead you have to trudge through years of algebra (like essentially algebra 2 is the same as algebra 1, precalc could be learned with algebra 2 etc...) this work analogy is absolutely fucking terrible. you are paid for your work, your time, school is not the same at all. if it is boring, who the fuck cares get paid blow trees right. No it's actually a great analogy. You might not know it but what happens in school, especially high school matters forever. Many jobs require you to have transcripts of your grades when you apply. So yes, you are in a sense getting paid to go to school.
i have never ever been asked about my high school grades other than when i have applied to college, and your grades in college matter if you are 1) applying to grad school/professional school 2) your first job. it definitely does not matter 'forever'.
this was spoken like someone who blindly listened to their parents or something.
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On June 03 2012 03:15 Magic_Mike wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 03:11 dreamsmasher wrote:On June 03 2012 03:05 Faveokatro wrote:
^ This. The "I'm too smart/knowledgeable I don't need to do homework" never made sense to me. If it was that easy for you, the assignment would take almost no time, right? I don't understand where this attitude comes from, I was taking multi-variable calc in middle school and guess what. I still did my homework. I wasn't special and you certainly aren't special for earning a B on an English test. Are you joking? That isn't even that good.
As pointed out by others, the most common excuses of "my teacher sucks" or "my teacher is an asshole" are equally irrelevant. You'll have shitty professors, you'll have shitty bosses, you'll deal with a LOT of crappy coworkers in your life. The value you bring isn't solely in the quality of work you produce - even more solitary/quantifiable work like research is now very team-based. You need to learn how to tolerate and make the best of situations with people you don't like. Since you seem to think that those rules don't apply to when you enter "the real world," let me assure you that that isn't the case. Even as a personal trainer, you have bosses. Many of them. They're called clients. you're lucky then to go to a school system that allows you to do that. i skipped 2 years in math and even then i remember having a lot of difficulty doing so, many school officials are extremely reluctant to ALLOW you to do this kind of thing, only in GOOD school districts (aka you parents make a good living) that you are allowed to do something. if i was allowed to take calculus early, i probably would have thought math was more interesting etc... instead you have to trudge through years of algebra (like essentially algebra 2 is the same as algebra 1, precalc could be learned with algebra 2 etc...) this work analogy is absolutely fucking terrible. you are paid for your work, your time, school is not the same at all. if it is boring, who the fuck cares get paid blow trees right. No it's actually a great analogy. You might not know it but what happens in school, especially high school matters forever. Many jobs require you to have transcripts of your grades when you apply. So yes, you are in a sense getting paid to go to school.
uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh no. experience >>>>>>>>>>>> grades.
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EPT
