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On June 03 2012 02:00 shawster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 01:47 sereniity wrote:
As I go to school myself I find this a very interesting subject, a question I often bring up is "Are your grades a reflection of your knowledge/skill, or your work put into the class?"
Basically, I feel that even if my english is good enough for grade A, I cannot achieve it unless I come to almost every class and do every piece of homework, even if I get very high scores on my tests. Is this right or wrong?
In my own perfect world, a grade would reflect how a good a certain student is at said subject, not how much time dedicated into it. I know a guy in my english class who is terrible at english, yet he's given grade C. The only reason for that is because he did his homework and was nice to the teacher.
Me on the other hand, had a grudge with the teacher (along with the rest of the class) and I've been having constant meetings with the principal to get ourselves a new teacher (she has a terrible attitude and constantly mocks us, has an aura of prestige as if we're crap and she's the best, yet she can't even spell the word boulder).
Anyway, back on topic, I'm getting an E this year because I basically haven't come to many of her lessons (I have about 60% attendance rate). I did however get a B on my final exams (called 'Nationella Proven' in Sweden).
Maybe this was abit off-topic, I got abit carried away :D... totally disagree with you you're saying that intelligence should be your mark and effort should be less of it. come on now, how successful you are at a certain job is determined by your quality of work. i don't give a shit if you are extremely smart, if that average kid puts out a better product than you he's doing better than you. if you're extremely knowledgeable you should be doing better than the average kid if you are putting out the same effort. it sounds like homework still accounts for a chunk of your mark and that is dragging you down. why don't you just.. iunno.. do it if it's that easy. everyone has to do monotonous tasks, that's the effort part of it.
This is a very common attitude in Sweden. It's gotten to the point where it's "cool" to be good at something but not give a shit about studying, and then whining about not getting good grades. Basically, everyone just wants to fuck around and hang out with friends and only do the tests.
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On June 03 2012 02:00 shawster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 01:47 sereniity wrote:
As I go to school myself I find this a very interesting subject, a question I often bring up is "Are your grades a reflection of your knowledge/skill, or your work put into the class?"
Basically, I feel that even if my english is good enough for grade A, I cannot achieve it unless I come to almost every class and do every piece of homework, even if I get very high scores on my tests. Is this right or wrong?
In my own perfect world, a grade would reflect how a good a certain student is at said subject, not how much time dedicated into it. I know a guy in my english class who is terrible at english, yet he's given grade C. The only reason for that is because he did his homework and was nice to the teacher.
Me on the other hand, had a grudge with the teacher (along with the rest of the class) and I've been having constant meetings with the principal to get ourselves a new teacher (she has a terrible attitude and constantly mocks us, has an aura of prestige as if we're crap and she's the best, yet she can't even spell the word boulder).
Anyway, back on topic, I'm getting an E this year because I basically haven't come to many of her lessons (I have about 60% attendance rate). I did however get a B on my final exams (called 'Nationella Proven' in Sweden).
Maybe this was abit off-topic, I got abit carried away :D... you're saying that intelligence should be your mark and effort should be less of it. come on now, how successful you are at a certain job is determined by your quality of work. i don't give a shit if you are extremely smart, if that average kid puts out a better product than you he's doing better than you.
So just because I wont work hard in an English class with a terrible teacher means I wont work hard if I get a job? I never understood this type of reasoning, it's not rocket science that people will work harder if they're motivated, it's hard to keep yourself motivated if your English teacher is a complete asshat and the school wont do much to solve the problem.
I would love to see how motivated you would be if you hand in assignments and whatnot, in return you get comments such as "Excellent writing, keep on going like that!" and then when you ask what grade you're currently sitting at it's a C. Then you ask what you can do to improve and the only thing the teacher says is "write better", no details or anything.
I worked hardest of all in our English class in the first half of our semester, but it's literally impossible for me to keep working hard if my teacher wont give me any pointers on what I need to do better and I'm stuck at a C when I'm a student who aspires to achieve an A.
Also, in a job you have certain things to keep you motivated, money is usually the biggest one ofcourse but depending on what job you have you might have different motivating factors.
I'm getting my grade in English class, not "how hard did you work class".
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My mother once went to a school, where the kids were of course retarded. And she gave a bad grade to someone cuz he was being a moron, obviously she asked him questions. And then his mother came in to the school complaining about it to the school head master. And she of course being as retarded as the kids, tolld her wtf she was doing and that its not acceptable and she had to remove it.
God I hate that humans can be so dumb.
But hey we have to live with that, maybe thousands of years in the future we will learn just a tad faster.
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On June 03 2012 02:07 sereniity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 02:00 shawster wrote:On June 03 2012 01:47 sereniity wrote:
As I go to school myself I find this a very interesting subject, a question I often bring up is "Are your grades a reflection of your knowledge/skill, or your work put into the class?"
Basically, I feel that even if my english is good enough for grade A, I cannot achieve it unless I come to almost every class and do every piece of homework, even if I get very high scores on my tests. Is this right or wrong?
In my own perfect world, a grade would reflect how a good a certain student is at said subject, not how much time dedicated into it. I know a guy in my english class who is terrible at english, yet he's given grade C. The only reason for that is because he did his homework and was nice to the teacher.
Me on the other hand, had a grudge with the teacher (along with the rest of the class) and I've been having constant meetings with the principal to get ourselves a new teacher (she has a terrible attitude and constantly mocks us, has an aura of prestige as if we're crap and she's the best, yet she can't even spell the word boulder).
Anyway, back on topic, I'm getting an E this year because I basically haven't come to many of her lessons (I have about 60% attendance rate). I did however get a B on my final exams (called 'Nationella Proven' in Sweden).
Maybe this was abit off-topic, I got abit carried away :D... you're saying that intelligence should be your mark and effort should be less of it. come on now, how successful you are at a certain job is determined by your quality of work. i don't give a shit if you are extremely smart, if that average kid puts out a better product than you he's doing better than you. So just because I wont work hard in an English class with a terrible teacher means I wont work hard if I get a job? I never understood this type of reasoning, it's not rocket science that people will work harder if they're motivated, it's hard to keep yourself motivated if your English teacher is a complete asshat and the school wont do much to solve the problem. In a job you have certain things to keep you motivated, money is usually the biggest one ofcourse but depending on what job you have you might have different motivating factors. As I said, I'm getting my grade in English class, not "how hard did you work class".
First of all, you're not entitled to anything. Second, in real life, you have to learn to work with the hand that you're dealt, that means having to deal with people that you don't particularly like. If you're not willing to put effort into your work because your teacher is an "asshat", then I doubt you'd be very good at anything except complaining. You need to give up that shitty entitled attitude because you're not special, you're just like every other Swedish kid that spends too much time on the Internet.
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On June 03 2012 02:12 Animzor wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 02:07 sereniity wrote:On June 03 2012 02:00 shawster wrote:On June 03 2012 01:47 sereniity wrote:
As I go to school myself I find this a very interesting subject, a question I often bring up is "Are your grades a reflection of your knowledge/skill, or your work put into the class?"
Basically, I feel that even if my english is good enough for grade A, I cannot achieve it unless I come to almost every class and do every piece of homework, even if I get very high scores on my tests. Is this right or wrong?
In my own perfect world, a grade would reflect how a good a certain student is at said subject, not how much time dedicated into it. I know a guy in my english class who is terrible at english, yet he's given grade C. The only reason for that is because he did his homework and was nice to the teacher.
Me on the other hand, had a grudge with the teacher (along with the rest of the class) and I've been having constant meetings with the principal to get ourselves a new teacher (she has a terrible attitude and constantly mocks us, has an aura of prestige as if we're crap and she's the best, yet she can't even spell the word boulder).
Anyway, back on topic, I'm getting an E this year because I basically haven't come to many of her lessons (I have about 60% attendance rate). I did however get a B on my final exams (called 'Nationella Proven' in Sweden).
Maybe this was abit off-topic, I got abit carried away :D... you're saying that intelligence should be your mark and effort should be less of it. come on now, how successful you are at a certain job is determined by your quality of work. i don't give a shit if you are extremely smart, if that average kid puts out a better product than you he's doing better than you. So just because I wont work hard in an English class with a terrible teacher means I wont work hard if I get a job? I never understood this type of reasoning, it's not rocket science that people will work harder if they're motivated, it's hard to keep yourself motivated if your English teacher is a complete asshat and the school wont do much to solve the problem. In a job you have certain things to keep you motivated, money is usually the biggest one ofcourse but depending on what job you have you might have different motivating factors. As I said, I'm getting my grade in English class, not "how hard did you work class". First of all, you're not entitled to anything. Second, in real life, you have to learn to work with the hand that you're dealt, that means having to deal with people that you don't particularly like. If you're not willing to put effort into your work because your teacher is an "asshat", then I doubt you'd be very good at anything except complaining. You need to give up that shitty entitled attitude because you're not special, you're just like every other Swedish kid that spends too much time on the Internet.
Maybe that's why I'm becoming a personal trainer, so I can be my own boss and have my own customers  ...
Why do you start insulting me anyway? How do you know what I'm like? Pretty silly to start using ad-hominem attacks...
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Sweden33719 Posts
On June 03 2012 02:00 shawster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 01:47 sereniity wrote:
As I go to school myself I find this a very interesting subject, a question I often bring up is "Are your grades a reflection of your knowledge/skill, or your work put into the class?"
Basically, I feel that even if my english is good enough for grade A, I cannot achieve it unless I come to almost every class and do every piece of homework, even if I get very high scores on my tests. Is this right or wrong?
In my own perfect world, a grade would reflect how a good a certain student is at said subject, not how much time dedicated into it. I know a guy in my english class who is terrible at english, yet he's given grade C. The only reason for that is because he did his homework and was nice to the teacher.
Me on the other hand, had a grudge with the teacher (along with the rest of the class) and I've been having constant meetings with the principal to get ourselves a new teacher (she has a terrible attitude and constantly mocks us, has an aura of prestige as if we're crap and she's the best, yet she can't even spell the word boulder).
Anyway, back on topic, I'm getting an E this year because I basically haven't come to many of her lessons (I have about 60% attendance rate). I did however get a B on my final exams (called 'Nationella Proven' in Sweden).
Maybe this was abit off-topic, I got abit carried away :D... totally disagree with you you're saying that intelligence should be your mark and effort should be less of it. come on now, how successful you are at a certain job is determined by your quality of work. i don't give a shit if you are extremely smart, if that average kid puts out a better product than you he's doing better than you. if you're extremely knowledgeable you should be doing better than the average kid if you are putting out the same effort. it sounds like homework still accounts for a chunk of your mark and that is dragging you down. why don't you just.. iunno.. do it if it's that easy. everyone has to do monotonous tasks, that's the effort part of it.
If you are acing every test without studying for them, I hardly think it should matter much whether you wrote that retarded pretend diary your english teacher wanted you to write for class.
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On June 03 2012 02:18 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 02:00 shawster wrote:On June 03 2012 01:47 sereniity wrote:
As I go to school myself I find this a very interesting subject, a question I often bring up is "Are your grades a reflection of your knowledge/skill, or your work put into the class?"
Basically, I feel that even if my english is good enough for grade A, I cannot achieve it unless I come to almost every class and do every piece of homework, even if I get very high scores on my tests. Is this right or wrong?
In my own perfect world, a grade would reflect how a good a certain student is at said subject, not how much time dedicated into it. I know a guy in my english class who is terrible at english, yet he's given grade C. The only reason for that is because he did his homework and was nice to the teacher.
Me on the other hand, had a grudge with the teacher (along with the rest of the class) and I've been having constant meetings with the principal to get ourselves a new teacher (she has a terrible attitude and constantly mocks us, has an aura of prestige as if we're crap and she's the best, yet she can't even spell the word boulder).
Anyway, back on topic, I'm getting an E this year because I basically haven't come to many of her lessons (I have about 60% attendance rate). I did however get a B on my final exams (called 'Nationella Proven' in Sweden).
Maybe this was abit off-topic, I got abit carried away :D... totally disagree with you you're saying that intelligence should be your mark and effort should be less of it. come on now, how successful you are at a certain job is determined by your quality of work. i don't give a shit if you are extremely smart, if that average kid puts out a better product than you he's doing better than you. if you're extremely knowledgeable you should be doing better than the average kid if you are putting out the same effort. it sounds like homework still accounts for a chunk of your mark and that is dragging you down. why don't you just.. iunno.. do it if it's that easy. everyone has to do monotonous tasks, that's the effort part of it. If you are acing every test without studying for them, I hardly think it should matter much whether you wrote that retarded pretend diary your english teacher wanted you to write for class.
Exactly my point, however the older generation seems to disagree with this kind of thinking.
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School shouldn't be just about getting grades and doing tests. Homework breeds work ethic and discipline. Both of those traits become far more valuable than passing tests as you get older. If you have work ethic and discipline you can accomplish far more than just being run of the mill "smart".
I fucked around a complained a lot too, I would always bitch about doing well on the tests and why should I have to do homework etc. Thinking like that is an oversimplified way of looking at things and you aren't seeing the big picture.
I applaud the teacher for giving zeros, it wasn't done enough when I was in school and I know i skated by a ton with far less than my best effort. Habits like not giving it your all and not having discipline become WAY harder to break as you get older. The kids need to be taught that lesson asap for their own sake.
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On June 03 2012 02:05 Roachu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 01:47 sereniity wrote:
As I go to school myself I find this a very interesting subject, a question I often bring up is "Are your grades a reflection of your knowledge/skill, or your work put into the class?"
Basically, I feel that even if my english is good enough for grade A, I cannot achieve it unless I come to almost every class and do every piece of homework, even if I get very high scores on my tests. Is this right or wrong?
In my own perfect world, a grade would reflect how a good a certain student is at said subject, not how much time dedicated into it. After all, when I'm looking for a job, my grades should show how good I am at said thing, not how nice I was in class. Just because I didn't come to every English class doesn't mean I wont come to work every day. I know a guy in my english class who is terrible at english, yet he's given grade C. The only reason for that is because he did his homework and was nice to the teacher.
Me on the other hand, had a grudge with the teacher (along with the rest of the class) and I've been having constant meetings with the principal to get ourselves a new teacher (she has a terrible attitude and constantly mocks us, has an aura of prestige as if we're crap and she's the best, yet she can't even spell the word boulder).
Anyway, back on topic, I'm getting an E this year because I basically haven't come to many of her lessons (I have about 60% attendance rate). I did however get a B on my final exams (called 'Nationella Proven' in Sweden).
Maybe this was abit off-topic, I got abit carried away :D... That's a bit of a dicey question I think, since your grades should be a reflection of your knowledge, or maybe rather acquired knowledge. On the other hand how is anyone supposed to know if you're not there? My experience is a lot of courses are poorly structured as they require a lot of attendance in order to pass while the literature might be most of what you need to learn. In university courses attendance doesn't mean shit unless there are mandatory introduction lectures or seminars, but the your score on the exams are what counts. In high school thought most of what counts to your grade is done during classes together with exam results. Though in my experience nobody who skips out on a lot of classes aren't going to post a good result on exams or assignments.
Well I'm getting a B or more on every test I'm doing, including the final exams. Without studying at all. That's how they're supposed to know of my knowledge.
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On June 03 2012 02:18 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 02:00 shawster wrote:On June 03 2012 01:47 sereniity wrote:
As I go to school myself I find this a very interesting subject, a question I often bring up is "Are your grades a reflection of your knowledge/skill, or your work put into the class?"
Basically, I feel that even if my english is good enough for grade A, I cannot achieve it unless I come to almost every class and do every piece of homework, even if I get very high scores on my tests. Is this right or wrong?
In my own perfect world, a grade would reflect how a good a certain student is at said subject, not how much time dedicated into it. I know a guy in my english class who is terrible at english, yet he's given grade C. The only reason for that is because he did his homework and was nice to the teacher.
Me on the other hand, had a grudge with the teacher (along with the rest of the class) and I've been having constant meetings with the principal to get ourselves a new teacher (she has a terrible attitude and constantly mocks us, has an aura of prestige as if we're crap and she's the best, yet she can't even spell the word boulder).
Anyway, back on topic, I'm getting an E this year because I basically haven't come to many of her lessons (I have about 60% attendance rate). I did however get a B on my final exams (called 'Nationella Proven' in Sweden).
Maybe this was abit off-topic, I got abit carried away :D... totally disagree with you you're saying that intelligence should be your mark and effort should be less of it. come on now, how successful you are at a certain job is determined by your quality of work. i don't give a shit if you are extremely smart, if that average kid puts out a better product than you he's doing better than you. if you're extremely knowledgeable you should be doing better than the average kid if you are putting out the same effort. it sounds like homework still accounts for a chunk of your mark and that is dragging you down. why don't you just.. iunno.. do it if it's that easy. everyone has to do monotonous tasks, that's the effort part of it. If you are acing every test without studying for them, I hardly think it should matter much whether you wrote that retarded pretend diary your english teacher wanted you to write for class.
This. If you are really smart/that good at english or whatever subject, it should be an easy task for you to do your homework and shit.
Singapore have a ridiculous system where they have a % for every single assignment/homework. The first question the student ask when the teacher give out assignments/homework is: "Does this count into my final marks/grades?". If yes, we would do it. If not, you'll be surprised to see more than 10% of the class submitting it.
I think every education system is flawed in certain ways(Suited for different kind of people) but clever people would just know how to get good grades in every system.
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On June 03 2012 02:18 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 02:00 shawster wrote:On June 03 2012 01:47 sereniity wrote:
As I go to school myself I find this a very interesting subject, a question I often bring up is "Are your grades a reflection of your knowledge/skill, or your work put into the class?"
Basically, I feel that even if my english is good enough for grade A, I cannot achieve it unless I come to almost every class and do every piece of homework, even if I get very high scores on my tests. Is this right or wrong?
In my own perfect world, a grade would reflect how a good a certain student is at said subject, not how much time dedicated into it. I know a guy in my english class who is terrible at english, yet he's given grade C. The only reason for that is because he did his homework and was nice to the teacher.
Me on the other hand, had a grudge with the teacher (along with the rest of the class) and I've been having constant meetings with the principal to get ourselves a new teacher (she has a terrible attitude and constantly mocks us, has an aura of prestige as if we're crap and she's the best, yet she can't even spell the word boulder).
Anyway, back on topic, I'm getting an E this year because I basically haven't come to many of her lessons (I have about 60% attendance rate). I did however get a B on my final exams (called 'Nationella Proven' in Sweden).
Maybe this was abit off-topic, I got abit carried away :D... totally disagree with you you're saying that intelligence should be your mark and effort should be less of it. come on now, how successful you are at a certain job is determined by your quality of work. i don't give a shit if you are extremely smart, if that average kid puts out a better product than you he's doing better than you. if you're extremely knowledgeable you should be doing better than the average kid if you are putting out the same effort. it sounds like homework still accounts for a chunk of your mark and that is dragging you down. why don't you just.. iunno.. do it if it's that easy. everyone has to do monotonous tasks, that's the effort part of it. If you are acing every test without studying for them, I hardly think it should matter much whether you wrote that retarded pretend diary your english teacher wanted you to write for class.
Actually it should. It teaches responsibility and time management, something that most kids in school lack considerably.
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On June 03 2012 02:05 Roachu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 01:47 sereniity wrote:
As I go to school myself I find this a very interesting subject, a question I often bring up is "Are your grades a reflection of your knowledge/skill, or your work put into the class?"
Basically, I feel that even if my english is good enough for grade A, I cannot achieve it unless I come to almost every class and do every piece of homework, even if I get very high scores on my tests. Is this right or wrong?
In my own perfect world, a grade would reflect how a good a certain student is at said subject, not how much time dedicated into it. After all, when I'm looking for a job, my grades should show how good I am at said thing, not how nice I was in class. Just because I didn't come to every English class doesn't mean I wont come to work every day. I know a guy in my english class who is terrible at english, yet he's given grade C. The only reason for that is because he did his homework and was nice to the teacher.
Me on the other hand, had a grudge with the teacher (along with the rest of the class) and I've been having constant meetings with the principal to get ourselves a new teacher (she has a terrible attitude and constantly mocks us, has an aura of prestige as if we're crap and she's the best, yet she can't even spell the word boulder).
Anyway, back on topic, I'm getting an E this year because I basically haven't come to many of her lessons (I have about 60% attendance rate). I did however get a B on my final exams (called 'Nationella Proven' in Sweden).
Maybe this was abit off-topic, I got abit carried away :D... That's a bit of a dicey question I think, since your grades should be a reflection of your knowledge, or maybe rather acquired knowledge. On the other hand how is anyone supposed to know if you're not there? My experience is a lot of courses are poorly structured as they require a lot of attendance in order to pass while the literature might be most of what you need to learn. In university courses attendance doesn't mean shit unless there are mandatory introduction lectures or seminars, but the your score on the exams are what counts. In high school thought most of what counts to your grade is done during classes together with exam results. Though in my experience nobody who skips out on a lot of classes aren't going to post a good result on exams or assignments.
No, it's not dicey at all. Grades are based on performance and a reflect exactly how the student performed in the class. You have tests, quizzes, homework, etc. You know up front what you are being graded on. Some classes my homework was graded, some it was not. Some classes had no homework. If you want a good grade, then you must performed on the graded portion of the class. If the only thing that is graded is a single final exam, then that's it. Don't show up, don't do homework, just do well on that one test. It's really quite simple.
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On June 03 2012 02:18 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 02:00 shawster wrote:On June 03 2012 01:47 sereniity wrote:
As I go to school myself I find this a very interesting subject, a question I often bring up is "Are your grades a reflection of your knowledge/skill, or your work put into the class?"
Basically, I feel that even if my english is good enough for grade A, I cannot achieve it unless I come to almost every class and do every piece of homework, even if I get very high scores on my tests. Is this right or wrong?
In my own perfect world, a grade would reflect how a good a certain student is at said subject, not how much time dedicated into it. I know a guy in my english class who is terrible at english, yet he's given grade C. The only reason for that is because he did his homework and was nice to the teacher.
Me on the other hand, had a grudge with the teacher (along with the rest of the class) and I've been having constant meetings with the principal to get ourselves a new teacher (she has a terrible attitude and constantly mocks us, has an aura of prestige as if we're crap and she's the best, yet she can't even spell the word boulder).
Anyway, back on topic, I'm getting an E this year because I basically haven't come to many of her lessons (I have about 60% attendance rate). I did however get a B on my final exams (called 'Nationella Proven' in Sweden).
Maybe this was abit off-topic, I got abit carried away :D... totally disagree with you you're saying that intelligence should be your mark and effort should be less of it. come on now, how successful you are at a certain job is determined by your quality of work. i don't give a shit if you are extremely smart, if that average kid puts out a better product than you he's doing better than you. if you're extremely knowledgeable you should be doing better than the average kid if you are putting out the same effort. it sounds like homework still accounts for a chunk of your mark and that is dragging you down. why don't you just.. iunno.. do it if it's that easy. everyone has to do monotonous tasks, that's the effort part of it. If you are acing every test without studying for them, I hardly think it should matter much whether you wrote that retarded pretend diary your english teacher wanted you to write for class.
If you are told that the diary is part of your grade, then you'd better do it if you want a good grade. If it's not graded, then you're right.
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On June 03 2012 02:14 sereniity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 02:12 Animzor wrote:On June 03 2012 02:07 sereniity wrote:On June 03 2012 02:00 shawster wrote:On June 03 2012 01:47 sereniity wrote:
As I go to school myself I find this a very interesting subject, a question I often bring up is "Are your grades a reflection of your knowledge/skill, or your work put into the class?"
Basically, I feel that even if my english is good enough for grade A, I cannot achieve it unless I come to almost every class and do every piece of homework, even if I get very high scores on my tests. Is this right or wrong?
In my own perfect world, a grade would reflect how a good a certain student is at said subject, not how much time dedicated into it. I know a guy in my english class who is terrible at english, yet he's given grade C. The only reason for that is because he did his homework and was nice to the teacher.
Me on the other hand, had a grudge with the teacher (along with the rest of the class) and I've been having constant meetings with the principal to get ourselves a new teacher (she has a terrible attitude and constantly mocks us, has an aura of prestige as if we're crap and she's the best, yet she can't even spell the word boulder).
Anyway, back on topic, I'm getting an E this year because I basically haven't come to many of her lessons (I have about 60% attendance rate). I did however get a B on my final exams (called 'Nationella Proven' in Sweden).
Maybe this was abit off-topic, I got abit carried away :D... you're saying that intelligence should be your mark and effort should be less of it. come on now, how successful you are at a certain job is determined by your quality of work. i don't give a shit if you are extremely smart, if that average kid puts out a better product than you he's doing better than you. So just because I wont work hard in an English class with a terrible teacher means I wont work hard if I get a job? I never understood this type of reasoning, it's not rocket science that people will work harder if they're motivated, it's hard to keep yourself motivated if your English teacher is a complete asshat and the school wont do much to solve the problem. In a job you have certain things to keep you motivated, money is usually the biggest one ofcourse but depending on what job you have you might have different motivating factors. As I said, I'm getting my grade in English class, not "how hard did you work class". First of all, you're not entitled to anything. Second, in real life, you have to learn to work with the hand that you're dealt, that means having to deal with people that you don't particularly like. If you're not willing to put effort into your work because your teacher is an "asshat", then I doubt you'd be very good at anything except complaining. You need to give up that shitty entitled attitude because you're not special, you're just like every other Swedish kid that spends too much time on the Internet. Maybe that's why I'm becoming a personal trainer, so I can be my own boss and have my own customers ... Why do you start insulting me anyway? How do you know what I'm like? Pretty silly to start using ad-hominem attacks...
Thats not really an insult, and the guys point is very clear and reasonable. There's a big difference between being able to tell people how they should work out, and spending the time learning how that person operates and designing a plan that best suits them. The difference is night and day for how good of a personal trainer you are and it's not all that different to your attitudes on homework.
The comments you're making, as smart as they might sound to yourself sound very foolish to people that are past the high school phase of their life. I was one of those "Smart kids" that passed classes with final exams being a core reason and it took me a long term to develop any kind of work ethic in the real world, that should have been developed in school. You don't get handed anything in life because you have the knowledge to do something, quite often you have to prove you can do "lesser" jobs before you can get into something that truly pushes your skillset, remember that.
I think the best teachers are the ones that can get the most out of each student, I've had a few in my life where they worked with me on assignments to give me things that interested me and I scored extremely well in those classes. I also had a few "bad" teachers, but I never made an effort to become a better student either. If you truly don't like a teacher, or believe in what they have to say then drop the class and either a) take it later or b) take it during summer. Using the bad teacher excuse won't get you very far in life, you need to work around it for your own sake.
I'll leave you with this, I'm sure everybody here has worked for a "Bad boss" who was far worse than any teacher we ever had. I'm talking about the unintelligent lifer in a dead end job kind of bad boss. The lessons you learn in school will help you cope with those situations a lot better, if you try to work past the adversity of a bad teacher or a bad system.
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United States123 Posts
On June 03 2012 02:07 sereniity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 02:00 shawster wrote:On June 03 2012 01:47 sereniity wrote:
As I go to school myself I find this a very interesting subject, a question I often bring up is "Are your grades a reflection of your knowledge/skill, or your work put into the class?"
Basically, I feel that even if my english is good enough for grade A, I cannot achieve it unless I come to almost every class and do every piece of homework, even if I get very high scores on my tests. Is this right or wrong?
In my own perfect world, a grade would reflect how a good a certain student is at said subject, not how much time dedicated into it. I know a guy in my english class who is terrible at english, yet he's given grade C. The only reason for that is because he did his homework and was nice to the teacher.
Me on the other hand, had a grudge with the teacher (along with the rest of the class) and I've been having constant meetings with the principal to get ourselves a new teacher (she has a terrible attitude and constantly mocks us, has an aura of prestige as if we're crap and she's the best, yet she can't even spell the word boulder).
Anyway, back on topic, I'm getting an E this year because I basically haven't come to many of her lessons (I have about 60% attendance rate). I did however get a B on my final exams (called 'Nationella Proven' in Sweden).
Maybe this was abit off-topic, I got abit carried away :D... you're saying that intelligence should be your mark and effort should be less of it. come on now, how successful you are at a certain job is determined by your quality of work. i don't give a shit if you are extremely smart, if that average kid puts out a better product than you he's doing better than you. So just because I wont work hard in an English class with a terrible teacher means I wont work hard if I get a job? I never understood this type of reasoning, it's not rocket science that people will work harder if they're motivated, it's hard to keep yourself motivated if your English teacher is a complete asshat and the school wont do much to solve the problem.
Have you ever had a bad boss? I can assure you it's MUCH worse than having a bad professor/teacher. Believe it or not, the case you described is just as applicable, if not more so, than a case where you have an engaging teacher. Learning to do work for shitty people in places of authority is a skill that has to be honed just as much as your understanding of the subject itself.
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On June 03 2012 02:12 Animzor wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 02:07 sereniity wrote:On June 03 2012 02:00 shawster wrote:On June 03 2012 01:47 sereniity wrote:
As I go to school myself I find this a very interesting subject, a question I often bring up is "Are your grades a reflection of your knowledge/skill, or your work put into the class?"
Basically, I feel that even if my english is good enough for grade A, I cannot achieve it unless I come to almost every class and do every piece of homework, even if I get very high scores on my tests. Is this right or wrong?
In my own perfect world, a grade would reflect how a good a certain student is at said subject, not how much time dedicated into it. I know a guy in my english class who is terrible at english, yet he's given grade C. The only reason for that is because he did his homework and was nice to the teacher.
Me on the other hand, had a grudge with the teacher (along with the rest of the class) and I've been having constant meetings with the principal to get ourselves a new teacher (she has a terrible attitude and constantly mocks us, has an aura of prestige as if we're crap and she's the best, yet she can't even spell the word boulder).
Anyway, back on topic, I'm getting an E this year because I basically haven't come to many of her lessons (I have about 60% attendance rate). I did however get a B on my final exams (called 'Nationella Proven' in Sweden).
Maybe this was abit off-topic, I got abit carried away :D... you're saying that intelligence should be your mark and effort should be less of it. come on now, how successful you are at a certain job is determined by your quality of work. i don't give a shit if you are extremely smart, if that average kid puts out a better product than you he's doing better than you. So just because I wont work hard in an English class with a terrible teacher means I wont work hard if I get a job? I never understood this type of reasoning, it's not rocket science that people will work harder if they're motivated, it's hard to keep yourself motivated if your English teacher is a complete asshat and the school wont do much to solve the problem. In a job you have certain things to keep you motivated, money is usually the biggest one ofcourse but depending on what job you have you might have different motivating factors. As I said, I'm getting my grade in English class, not "how hard did you work class". First of all, you're not entitled to anything. Second, in real life, you have to learn to work with the hand that you're dealt, that means having to deal with people that you don't particularly like. If you're not willing to put effort into your work because your teacher is an "asshat", then I doubt you'd be very good at anything except complaining. You need to give up that shitty entitled attitude because you're not special, you're just like every other Swedish kid that spends too much time on the Internet.
Completely agree. Don't blame your teacher if you're conceited enough to think you could easily get an A by just "applying yourself".
There are plenty of options available in Swedish schools for people who already know the material. It's just a matter of seeking them out.
For you, I'd recommend doing a "prövning" in English. There's absolutely no point in attending those classes if you feel you already know the material and feel you could pass with an A. With a "prövning" you can get that A and not have to attend classes.
They usually let you do "nationella prov" (if applicable in that subject). Give you a book to read which you'll have to do a written assignment on. Then they call you in one day to discuss the assignment orally and possibly do another exam on the course contents. You'll be done with it all in less than a month. Absolutely worth it if you already know the subject as you claim.
They usually have 2 teachers responsible for "prövningar". If your teacher is one of them, request the other.
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Lol, as someone who's undergoing some hardcore difficult education, I assure you "being smart" doesn't get you very far when past high school.
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On June 03 2012 02:07 Animzor wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 02:00 shawster wrote:On June 03 2012 01:47 sereniity wrote:
As I go to school myself I find this a very interesting subject, a question I often bring up is "Are your grades a reflection of your knowledge/skill, or your work put into the class?"
Basically, I feel that even if my english is good enough for grade A, I cannot achieve it unless I come to almost every class and do every piece of homework, even if I get very high scores on my tests. Is this right or wrong?
In my own perfect world, a grade would reflect how a good a certain student is at said subject, not how much time dedicated into it. I know a guy in my english class who is terrible at english, yet he's given grade C. The only reason for that is because he did his homework and was nice to the teacher.
Me on the other hand, had a grudge with the teacher (along with the rest of the class) and I've been having constant meetings with the principal to get ourselves a new teacher (she has a terrible attitude and constantly mocks us, has an aura of prestige as if we're crap and she's the best, yet she can't even spell the word boulder).
Anyway, back on topic, I'm getting an E this year because I basically haven't come to many of her lessons (I have about 60% attendance rate). I did however get a B on my final exams (called 'Nationella Proven' in Sweden).
Maybe this was abit off-topic, I got abit carried away :D... totally disagree with you you're saying that intelligence should be your mark and effort should be less of it. come on now, how successful you are at a certain job is determined by your quality of work. i don't give a shit if you are extremely smart, if that average kid puts out a better product than you he's doing better than you. if you're extremely knowledgeable you should be doing better than the average kid if you are putting out the same effort. it sounds like homework still accounts for a chunk of your mark and that is dragging you down. why don't you just.. iunno.. do it if it's that easy. everyone has to do monotonous tasks, that's the effort part of it. This is a very common attitude in Sweden. It's gotten to the point where it's "cool" to be good at something but not give a shit about studying, and then whining about not getting good grades. Basically, everyone just wants to fuck around and hang out with friends and only do the tests.
why shouldn't i have the option to just skip everything via tests. i always thought everything in school was boring (up till like senior year where I was taking like 7-8 AP classes.
i did this in university for a lot of classes too (like freshman level classes). many professors were much more accomodating to this (i never attended a single freshman chemistry/physics lecture) and still aced everything.
what's the big deal?
the classes that i did attend were the ones where i either (actually needed to attend) or found to be interesting on my own. i also attended many classes that i did not sign up for the sole intent of improving my own field of knowledge (or because the school wouldn't let me).
if you can study on your own and have a strong understanding of the material, i dont think you should be forced to do a bunch of monotonous work that is trivial (face it all of middle school is pretty much glorified babysitting and subjects in freshman-junior year in high school is like rehashed shit you should have known a long time ago).
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On June 03 2012 02:35 jacksonlee wrote:
Lol, as someone who's undergoing some hardcore difficult education, I assure you "being smart" doesn't get you very far when past high school.
There's a quote by Calvin Coolidge that says basically the same thing...
"Nothing in the world can take the place of Persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'Press On' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
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On June 03 2012 02:28 Kaitlin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 02:18 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On June 03 2012 02:00 shawster wrote:On June 03 2012 01:47 sereniity wrote:
As I go to school myself I find this a very interesting subject, a question I often bring up is "Are your grades a reflection of your knowledge/skill, or your work put into the class?"
Basically, I feel that even if my english is good enough for grade A, I cannot achieve it unless I come to almost every class and do every piece of homework, even if I get very high scores on my tests. Is this right or wrong?
In my own perfect world, a grade would reflect how a good a certain student is at said subject, not how much time dedicated into it. I know a guy in my english class who is terrible at english, yet he's given grade C. The only reason for that is because he did his homework and was nice to the teacher.
Me on the other hand, had a grudge with the teacher (along with the rest of the class) and I've been having constant meetings with the principal to get ourselves a new teacher (she has a terrible attitude and constantly mocks us, has an aura of prestige as if we're crap and she's the best, yet she can't even spell the word boulder).
Anyway, back on topic, I'm getting an E this year because I basically haven't come to many of her lessons (I have about 60% attendance rate). I did however get a B on my final exams (called 'Nationella Proven' in Sweden).
Maybe this was abit off-topic, I got abit carried away :D... totally disagree with you you're saying that intelligence should be your mark and effort should be less of it. come on now, how successful you are at a certain job is determined by your quality of work. i don't give a shit if you are extremely smart, if that average kid puts out a better product than you he's doing better than you. if you're extremely knowledgeable you should be doing better than the average kid if you are putting out the same effort. it sounds like homework still accounts for a chunk of your mark and that is dragging you down. why don't you just.. iunno.. do it if it's that easy. everyone has to do monotonous tasks, that's the effort part of it. If you are acing every test without studying for them, I hardly think it should matter much whether you wrote that retarded pretend diary your english teacher wanted you to write for class. If you are told that the diary is part of your grade, then you'd better do it if you want a good grade. If it's not graded, then you're right.
Agreed. I'm pretty sure that kids generally know what is expected of them to get a good grade in their classes. The know what teachers they can slack off for and what ones they have to do all their work. It's pretty common for people to be lazy then blame someone else for their bad grades even though the standards were established long before you ever showed up. Millions of people had to go through the same as some of you put it "shitty" grading process. They aren't going to change it just because you can ace the test without studying. Guess what, some people can't. You knew you had to do the shitty project in order to get the grade you deserved. You chose not to. Therefore you don't deserve it. You deserve the grade you earn according to the scale that you no doubt already knew about. I'm pretty sure, lazy kids don't get blindsided by bad grades. They knew they didn't do shit. They just feel entitled.
Michael Phelps is bigger, stronger, faster, and more skilled of a swimmer than everyone else. He can beat the best of them at almost anytime. Should we give him a gold medal just for showing up? We all know that he "could" beat the people who beat him nine times out of ten. Probably just an off day. No. You get the grade you earn. Simple as that.
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