EPTTeacher suspended for giving zeros - Page 17
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rhmiller907
United States118 Posts
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annul
United States2841 Posts
On June 03 2012 02:39 Magic_Mike wrote: Agreed. I'm pretty sure that kids generally know what is expected of them to get a good grade in their classes. The know what teachers they can slack off for and what ones they have to do all their work. It's pretty common for people to be lazy then blame someone else for their bad grades even though the standards were established long before you ever showed up. Millions of people had to go through the same as some of you put it "shitty" grading process. They aren't going to change it just because you can ace the test without studying. Guess what, some people can't. You knew you had to do the shitty project in order to get the grade you deserved. You chose not to. Therefore you don't deserve it. You deserve the grade you earn according to the scale that you no doubt already knew about. I'm pretty sure, lazy kids don't get blindsided by bad grades. They knew they didn't do shit. They just feel entitled. Michael Phelps is bigger, stronger, faster, and more skilled of a swimmer than everyone else. He can beat the best of them at almost anytime. Should we give him a gold medal just for showing up? We all know that he "could" beat the people who beat him nine times out of ten. Probably just an off day. No. You get the grade you earn. Simple as that. no, but we also should not refuse to give him a medal at all if he wins his race just because he didn't go to the pre-race photo shoot, or just because he didn't go to the post-race press conference. | ||
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gameguard
Korea (South)2131 Posts
On June 03 2012 17:34 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: That's all there is to it. Argue about why the school requires that, don't defend the teacher for breaking the rule (though defending his opinion is a different thing, but it seems many are doing the first). We don't know all the details of how the classroom is, how they grade things, whether their grade is curved or no, what "not completed' actually means or whether or not it differs from teacher/class to teacher/class. wouldnt most people agree that this no zero policy is actually counter productive for the educational standards? Lets face it, this is simply in place to artificially raise the grades so the schools can get funding. Shouldnt the ideal goal of teachers be improving the kids' education? While there is always a grey area on what constitutes acceptable protest for an unjust law or rule, i think most people would agree that what the teacher did was a noble thing. Nevertheless, this is a pretty tough issue to tackle. The fault cant be placed on any one institution. Governments need a way to evaluate schools for funding. The most straight forward way is to look at grades and standardized tests. Public schools need funding. Schools in lower socioeconomic areas especially need some help. Ideally, this would come from better teachers or a change in curriculum, but these things require money, which they cannot get if they dont raise grades. Its a catch 22 and they are forced into artificially raising the grades. Some kind of overarching reforms need to be made in education... | ||
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gameguard
Korea (South)2131 Posts
On June 03 2012 18:30 annul wrote: no, but we also should not refuse to give him a medal at all if he wins his race just because he didn't go to the pre-race photo shoot, or just because he didn't go to the post-race press conference. if those photo shoots and post race conference were incorporated into your rankings, then yea, he wouldnt get the medal by not showing up. | ||
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Zahir
United States947 Posts
I mean you realize it's a little self contradictory to say "students should shut up and do what's assigned no matter what it is" and then support the teacher for doing the exact opposite. There's better ways to learn than by rote, many professors realize this and allow you to skip whatever so long as you pass the exams. Others let you devise your own projects. But no, i guess it's more important to turn kids into disillusioned, unquestioning robot drones who are accustomed to the systems double standards. | ||
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DarkEnergy
Netherlands542 Posts
It was aimed to publicly humiliate me. Gathered my friends in class and left mid class and went to the IT coordinator. Got that cunt to apologies to me but she got of way to light. Lucky for me the next year my class was assigned a different teacher who actually worked with me. Why is this so much fuss then ? We can get zeros to if you do not do your projects or turn in your papers. Thats just normal no stuff to grade = 0 and everything wrong = 1 | ||
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babybell
776 Posts
On June 03 2012 19:21 DarkEnergy wrote: I got a -1 once no joke. It was aimed to publicly humiliate me. Gathered my friends in class and left mid class and went to the IT coordinator. Got that cunt to apologies to me but she got of way to light. Lucky for me the next year my class was assigned a different teacher who actually worked with me. Why is this so much fuss then ? We can get zeros to if you do not do your projects or turn in your papers. Thats just normal no stuff to grade = 0 and everything wrong = 1 You bullied a teacher? Nice. | ||
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Soulforged
Latvia905 Posts
Unlike USA, in plenty of Europe countries the only result of your high school marks would be a national-wide exams. For the subjects the recipient wants to take those exams in (others would default to their average last school years grade, but matter very little for college applications). For example, in Latvia, applying to a uni, the average grade points would be used to separate rankings between students who had same weighted exam marks sum for necessary 2-4 subjects. Because of that, a lot of students, me included, decided to do skimp out on course attendance and homework and just barely pass to be allowed to take the end exam. Doing homework on a subject that you're well ahead of the curve in is often unnecessary. Yes, homework certainly reinforces your knowledge; however, I found that the only thing it improves when you already understand the material, is your execution speed. Which is still good, of course, but not crucial. What if you already solve most math problems as fast as it takes you to write them down? There's still 100 of them you'll have to do, and simply going with immediately giving the answer doesn't cut it with the teachers. You need to show the solution. What if your understanding of physics is good enough(for high school, at least), that, knowing physics formulas(and what they are based on), you can solve any of the textbook homework tasks on the problem? You might see new approaches occasionally during homework, and that'll make you recognize them faster on tests, but what if you already finish those in half the given time, anyway? What if you wrote essays, stories, etc, for multiple years in your free time? Do you really need to write a basic, extra one per subject every few days for homework? There's an example like this for pretty much every subject. Doing homework that is based on the 'no one is left behind' approach can be easy, relatively useless.(compared to the other things you could be doing, depending on how productive you are) It doesn't take a genius or even being smart; a student simply needs to be at the top of the curve in that given subject(plenty overlaps, of course). Same for attendance. Some people just learn faster on their own than in a classroom, where teacher might be repeating material based on the low end of the knowledge curve a good portion of the time. I just prepared to read the textbook on my own and attend the bare minimum of classes. A good sc2 analogy would be to make a high masters player watch gold league stream repeatedly. That's a bad thing to force. No matter the skill distribution in the classroom(i mean private schools, etc - with the scholarships for those who can't afford it), there always will be a top and low end. And the top end will be bored as hell - there is no need to force them. A lot of teachers in my school did cool stuff like giving custom homework for smarter kids to keep them challenged. There also were cases of teachers giving good grades despite some missed homework or classes, if you very actively participate in the classes you attend and do a great job on the assignments you do complete(and do great on the tests). This obviously helps. Because even if the student thinks he can ace the exams at any point, it doesn't mean his parents do not care about his present marks  .Some teachers, of course, proceeded to be like the one this thread is about. If you first show them how skilled you are, most of them would be more lenient, but some were strict just no matter what. I usually made my point to them by getting into a 'barely passing zone' and skipping a lot afterwards. I guess if there was such thing as GPA and it mattered over here, I'd have to 'suck it up'. But I would hate the system for it. The argument 'if it is so easy, why not do it anyway?' applies often, but far from always. First, easy work can take a lot of time anyway, if there is a lot of it - in case of math, physics, etc. You are required to show the process of your solution anyway in most schools; Second, when you are skilled, you become a slave of your skill. You cannot just do a shoddy job, you kinda have to be thorough. It can easily take more time to make an essay for a skilled person than it is for unskilled, for every part of your essay would have a purpose. Hell, you even might be left unsatisfied by the end result and decide to redo certain parts of it, just because you can think that you can do better(even if the previous variation was an easy A anyway). But it does take plenty of time. The argument of 'you should just do what is expected of you' is a bit silly. Yes, high school kids aren't very good at thinking for themselves, but, IMHO, they should anyway. People do need to learn to think for themselves at some point, right? Now, for the preparing for real life, self-discipline, etc argument. In real life, you're expected to deal with the hand you are dealt. Indeed. Well, point is, what you take for the hand you are dealt is not always what it is. There are always alternate solutions. You don't like your boss? You can try to change him slowly with reasonable arguments, circumvent around him higher up the chain, switch department, etc. Rarely ever is the blind 'sucking it up' approach actually the best solution. Persistence is great, but not when it is persistence in mediocrity. What a person needs, in my opinion, is the discipline to make the best choice that they can find. If doing homework in school is indeed an inferior choice to things you prefer to do in that time(in my case, it was programming; but there are plenty examples) - then it's not a responsible choice to take. It is a decent choice, but not the best one. Of course, a lot of smart kids decide to skip out on attendance and homework to do stuff that's worse for them. They are just kids, after all. My point is, what they do with their "extra" time wouldn't be much worse; and I'd rather there was a choice in the first place. I won't comment much on homework/attendance effect on grades in USA, because I don't know how it works precisely, and what are its advantages\disadvantages. But if you're definitely forced to do menial tasks to get good GPA, and you need it to apply for a top college/university, then it sucks. But if there are alternative routes, such as taking exams earlier, taking specific university exams, whatever - then its not so bad. | ||
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Severedevil
United States4830 Posts
On June 03 2012 19:03 Zahir wrote: So the teacher is a hero for refusing to do what was assigned because he thinks its dumb, but no mercy for any student who does the same. I mean you realize it's a little self contradictory to say "students should shut up and do what's assigned no matter what it is" and then support the teacher for doing the exact opposite. There's better ways to learn than by rote, many professors realize this and allow you to skip whatever so long as you pass the exams. Others let you devise your own projects. But no, i guess it's more important to turn kids into disillusioned, unquestioning robot drones who are accustomed to the systems double standards. Very much this. Whether the pupils should complete the assignments given depends upon the merits of the assignments, and the way the teacher frames and uses those assignments. Treating it any other way places bureaucracy over education... much like suspending a teacher for deviating mildly from a grading guideline. | ||
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dicex
127 Posts
"Unable to evaluate" instead of giving a zero... | ||
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triangle
United States3803 Posts
On June 03 2012 19:43 dicex wrote: That's America for you... A no-zero policy. This happened in Canada. | ||
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solidbebe
Netherlands4921 Posts
Technically still America but he problaby meant USA. | ||
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redDuke
Australia207 Posts
Pfft if the kids are being lazy then of course they should get a zero. Shouldnt sugar coat if for the students/parents. NS of work wont fly if they want a uni/tafe degree and for sure wont in the workforce. Might as well get used to it now. | ||
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sereniity
Sweden1159 Posts
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gameguard
Korea (South)2131 Posts
On June 03 2012 19:03 Zahir wrote: So the teacher is a hero for refusing to do what was assigned because he thinks its dumb, but no mercy for any student who does the same. I mean you realize it's a little self contradictory to say "students should shut up and do what's assigned no matter what it is" and then support the teacher for doing the exact opposite. There's better ways to learn than by rote, many professors realize this and allow you to skip whatever so long as you pass the exams. Others let you devise your own projects. But no, i guess it's more important to turn kids into disillusioned, unquestioning robot drones who are accustomed to the systems double standards. Its sensible enough that he would get fired/suspended for going against the school policy. I dont think there are any arguements against that. Im sure this teacher knew the risks when he did what he did. That doesn't mean what he did was "wrong." Almost nothing is really black and white in this world. If the teacher was assigning math questions for a history class or something, perhaps the students could be justified in not doing them. That doesnt mean they shouldnt fail for it if that is clearly outlined in the syllabus. They would have to go to the school board and make the complaint. The teacher would most likely be fired. However, if the teacher has a sensible course outline and you decide to just not follow it due to your belief that only exam scores matter, it would be harder to make an appeal when you fail the course. Not all rules are equally just or viable, but if you break them, you must face the consequences unless the rule can be ammended. | ||
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Saryph
United States1955 Posts
On June 03 2012 19:21 DarkEnergy wrote: I got a -1 once no joke. It was aimed to publicly humiliate me. Gathered my friends in class and left mid class and went to the IT coordinator. Got that cunt to apologies to me but she got of way to light. Lucky for me the next year my class was assigned a different teacher who actually worked with me. Why is this so much fuss then ? We can get zeros to if you do not do your projects or turn in your papers. Thats just normal no stuff to grade = 0 and everything wrong = 1 If this is true it is disgusting the way you acted, and speaking about her. Too bad they couldn't kick you out of school forever. | ||
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sereniity
Sweden1159 Posts
On June 03 2012 20:51 Saryph wrote: If this is true it is disgusting the way you acted, and speaking about her. Too bad they couldn't kick you out of school forever. Am I missing something? Unless my reading fails me, he didn't even say what he did to her in order to have her give him a -1 O.o...? | ||
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Deleted User 61629
1664 Posts
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Deleted User 61629
1664 Posts
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Zahir
United States947 Posts
My only issue is with people who seem to think all kids who don't do well in school are lazy idiots who deserve whatever they get. The school system isnt perfect, particularly before college. Nor does everyone learn the same way, or thrive in the same setting... And contrary to what some believe, life does not call for absolute conformity to ones setting, you can choose the work and workplace that is right for you. I believe some recognition of the systems imperfections and the burdens it places on individuals should come into play whenever we judge students -- not just teachers. | ||
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