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We recently presented an article on the exorcisms being conducted in Russian Orthodox Churches across Russia. Our contact, Eugene Safronov, who is an assistant to an exorcist at many of these services, provided us with a harrowing audio recording he made at one exorcism.
http://paranormal.about.com/library/media/audio/russian_exorcism.wma
*warning - This recording may be disturbing to some listeners
Includes excerpts of actual exorcisms conducted by Russian priests. Eugene has acquired video from a Russian television news magazine segment about the church’s “battle with the demonic.” Eugene assisted in the production of the video segment, which appeared on the program Postscriptum with Alexey Pushkov, one of Russia's top weekly news programs.
(WARNING: May be disturbing to some viewers.)
http://paranormal.about.com/library/media/Russian_Exorcism_0001.wmv
Although some scenes of the exorcisms may be disturbing to some viewers, they are not as intense or incredible as other exorcisms that have taken place in the churches.
"On a scale of phenomena from 1 to 12," Eugene says, "the scenes in this video rank about a 6½ or 7." They do not show the full extent of what has happened in some cases, including physical changes in the victim and other more dramatic phenomena. In at least one case, Eugene says, the possessed person actually bent in two, head to toe – backwards!
I'm pretty sure this topic has been discussed before, but I saw the excorcism of Emily Rose few days ago which is based on true story and despite all the controversies I think the film is well made which is worth seeing it for just for the quality of the movie alone. I came across this article which I copied into a notepad which I lost the link to the actual site.
http://clk.about.com/?zi=1/XJ&sdn=paranormal&zu=http://www.fotofetch.com/
The real Emily Rose
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*cue scary music*
Seriously though, I'm not sure if this stuff is real, but I don't reall want to find out. :X
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roflcopters why did I find this funny. Great post 1tym, I'm gonna try that exorcism on a few friends of mine, they all get pissed off at me all the time ><. Could you find a picture of a person bent in two, head to toe backwards? that would be freaking sweet ;D
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Anneliese Michel is not the only one who have died from exorcism over the years. I recall hearing about some priest who killed a woman by putting a plastic bag over her head and then leaving here dead on the floor of the church waiting for her to ressurect. I think they jailed him when the body started to smell.
I would not say that all people that claim to be possesed by a deamon ect ect are mentally ill but I sure hope that they go and see a doctor instead of a priest when it comes to curing the illness.
Oh and I dont belive in such things as exorcisms and such things. And I hope than noone does.
EDIT: Interesting topic however and nice links.
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Well, I think that exorcisms are real because the people who are "possessed" beleive they are real. There is nothing to create reality other than human perception, thus, if one beleives they are truely possessed, and they beleive only an exorcism will expell the demon, then its real enough for them, and thats all the really matters.
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I'm not sure about all this. demons and spirits may well exist...funny how these kind of things always seems to evade science (not that science is THE truth), and recordings of the supernatural are always bad quality. Either because it's all a load of crap, or because these things tend to evade being scientifically proven.
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On November 22 2005 15:13 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
I believe in stargate
poor, poor guy...
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On November 22 2005 15:18 hatedbymany wrote:
She's Cute.
WAS cute. Unless your into that skeletal thing o_o
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On November 22 2005 16:22 Terran)Timmay wrote:
Well, I think that exorcisms are real because the people who are "possessed" beleive they are real. There is nothing to create reality other than human perception, thus, if one beleives they are truely possessed, and they beleive only an exorcism will expell the demon, then its real enough for them, and thats all the really matters.
thats not a bad way to look at it
if it works just because they believe it works.... it still works right haha
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"On a scale of phenomena from 1 to 12," Eugene says, "the scenes in this video rank about a 6½ or 7."
on a scale of silliness from 1 to 12 this is a 10 or 11. 12 would be this.
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exorcism is real whether you believe it or not. It doesnt need to be mathematically or scientifically proven for it to be real. Because it just exist, and demons do possess some individuals. Emily rose was possesed by not 1, but Five Demons. Cain, Lucipher, Judas, and 2 other guys. She tried to ride out the demons but they would not leave under any circumstances. Im Catholic/Christian so i do believe in exorcism.
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On November 22 2005 16:42 Locked wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2005 16:22 Terran)Timmay wrote:
Well, I think that exorcisms are real because the people who are "possessed" beleive they are real. There is nothing to create reality other than human perception, thus, if one beleives they are truely possessed, and they beleive only an exorcism will expell the demon, then its real enough for them, and thats all the really matters. thats not a bad way to look at it if it works just because they believe it works.... it still works right haha Yup, you should never underestimate the power of placebo. I guess it's quite similar to healing and other "supernatural" religious things.
I still dont think people should tamper with it and ignore real medicine expertice as in most of these cases.
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On November 22 2005 16:52 wasted wrote:Show nested quote +"On a scale of phenomena from 1 to 12," Eugene says, "the scenes in this video rank about a 6½ or 7." on a scale of silliness from 1 to 12 this is a 10 or 11. 12 would be this.
"In Scientology doctrine, Xenu (also Xemu) is a galactic ruler who, 75 million years ago, brought billions of people to Earth, stacked them around volcanoes and blew them up with hydrogen bombs. Their souls then clustered together and stuck to the bodies of the living, and continue to cause problems today."
ROFL
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On November 22 2005 16:54 BrutalMenace wrote:
exorcism is real whether you believe it or not. It doesnt need to be mathematically or scientifically proven for it to be real. Because it just exist, and demons do possess some individuals. Emily rose was possesed by not 1, but Five Demons. Cain, Lucipher, Judas, and 2 other guys. She tried to ride out the demons but they would not leave under any circumstances. Im Catholic/Christian so i do believe in exorcism.
not a big surprise that you also defy the rules of logic
the truth is, that you're just to naive or lazy to make up your mind and think
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
this thread is going to be a cesspool for amazing logic i think!
religiousdude1: ghosts took me dog shelly to dem der hut.
randomnaysayer: hell no this is silly!
christian4lyfeJCluvr: Demons are mean, but there is hell so maybe!
athiest1: There is no god you fucking government drones! The bible is really a comic book from thousands of years ago!
I can see it comming now!
Ontopic: i find this stuff interesting. Im Catholic but i look at these things objectively and its kinda fascinating.
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@control then why don't you give us the honor to hear an objective point of view? not enough space in your trolling post?
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
Wasted manner up ffs. If you really cared about what i thought you woulda kept the last part of your post in your anus.
Do you even know what a forum troll is? Or did you hear one of the cool kids use it and now you wave it around to sound intelligent?
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On November 22 2005 16:54 BrutalMenace wrote:
exorcism is real whether you believe it or not. It doesnt need to be mathematically or scientifically proven for it to be real. Because it just exist, and demons do possess some individuals. Emily rose was possesed by not 1, but Five Demons. Cain, Lucipher, Judas, and 2 other guys. She tried to ride out the demons but they would not leave under any circumstances. Im Catholic/Christian so i do believe in exorcism.
ok. but how do you know there were 5, and also their names. Also, if she was posessed by those 5, can those 5 also infect others at the same time? Cos those are some pretty big names in the demon scene. and since judas is in there, all people's souls turn into good or bad spirits at death?
i'd like to know more about this...
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
i want to see the movie too ~_~ like i said these kinda things are fascinating to me. Anyone else seen the movie and have an opinion on it? I liked the exorcist movies but i heard this was pretty good too!
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there was absolutely nothing scary or disturbing about the video posted. Best part was when the priest puts a cross on the womand head and she says "i cannot think with this cross on my head, get it off, i need to think!". If that doesnt scream "look at me look at me!" hysteria i dont know what is. Isn't lying a sin or something?
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On November 22 2005 17:25 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Wasted manner up ffs. If you really cared about what i thought you woulda kept the last part of your post in your anus.
Do you even know what a forum troll is? Or did you hear one of the cool kids use it and now you wave it around to sound intelligent?
maybe i misinterptreted the fact that you start pointless arguments with each and everyone about anything. and that you lately tend to clog almost every thread on this board with "funny" posts as "let it go" or stuff like you posted on page 1 of this thread. it's getting pretty annoying imho
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On November 22 2005 17:29 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
i want to see the movie too ~_~ like i said these kinda things are fascinating to me. Anyone else seen the movie and have an opinion on it? I liked the exorcist movies but i heard this was pretty good too!
The Emily rose movie was very different that the exorcist movie yet I still very much enjoyed it. The movie was focuse alot around the court case. With that said I highly recommend it, just don't expect to get scared from this movie, its not really scary its just quite intresting. I'm not really sure how to describe it better without ruining it.
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are some people really possessed by demons? when dualistic 'phenomena' present some serious, positive evidence verified and duplicated by other scientists I'll take such a question seriously. until then, we have no reason to describe things like this as 'paranormal,' at least not in some mysterious metaphysical sense.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On November 22 2005 17:44 wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2005 17:25 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Wasted manner up ffs. If you really cared about what i thought you woulda kept the last part of your post in your anus.
Do you even know what a forum troll is? Or did you hear one of the cool kids use it and now you wave it around to sound intelligent? maybe i misinterptreted the fact that you start pointless arguments with each and everyone about anything. and that you lately tend to clog almost every thread on this board with "funny" posts as "let it go" or stuff like you posted on page 1 of this thread. it's getting pretty annoying imho
So if you dont want me to start mindless arguements that ruin threads _why the fuck_ would you start a seedless flame of me? If your huge concern is that im going to reduce a thread to ash why the FUCK would you initiate it with me? I made a serious post, with an actual opinion and you go and preemptively strike me?
Use your head.
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Well, if you dont have a priest near for an exorcism, you can always use homeopathy.
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Everyone of inControl's post I see makes me think he's a huge fucking fag. He's always instigating shit in every thread.
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I dont believe in exorcism.
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No matter the name you will attribute to those strange things. The matter is not the question itself, it is the way you answer it.
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On November 22 2005 16:27 aseq wrote:
I'm not sure about all this. demons and spirits may well exist...funny how these kind of things always seems to evade science (not that science is THE truth), and recordings of the supernatural are always bad quality. Either because it's all a load of crap, or because these things tend to evade being scientifically proven.
maybe be SCIENTIFICALLY proven is not the only way to prove something is truth
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On November 22 2005 20:48 Resse wrote:
Everyone of inControl's post I see makes me think he's a huge fucking fag. He's always instigating shit in every thread.
if anyone 'instigated shit' it was wasted. incontrol seems like a fair enough person from the posts ive seen
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On November 22 2005 16:22 Terran)Timmay wrote:
Well, I think that exorcisms are real because the people who are "possessed" beleive they are real. There is nothing to create reality other than human perception, thus, if one beleives they are truely possessed, and they beleive only an exorcism will expell the demon, then its real enough for them, and thats all the really matters.
WOW, first time EVER someone on TL.net said something I wanna say 
Anywayz, what is Exorsismsm thingie? It sounds like pooping fecus crap?! :p
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On November 22 2005 22:33 HappyManRun wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2005 16:22 Terran)Timmay wrote:
Well, I think that exorcisms are real because the people who are "possessed" beleive they are real. There is nothing to create reality other than human perception, thus, if one beleives they are truely possessed, and they beleive only an exorcism will expell the demon, then its real enough for them, and thats all the really matters. WOW, first time EVER someone on TL.net said something I wanna say Anywayz, what is Exorsismsm thingie? It sounds like pooping fecus crap?! :p
exorcism is the art of removing demons from the body of a person. very real and very serious matters
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On November 22 2005 16:22 Terran)Timmay wrote:
Well, I think that exorcisms are real because the people who are "possessed" beleive they are real. There is nothing to create reality other than human perception, thus, if one beleives they are truely possessed, and they beleive only an exorcism will expell the demon, then its real enough for them, and thats all the really matters.
the thing is these people display signs of corruption and possession BEFORE they believe they are infact possessed, and require exorcism to expel the demon and recieve salvation.
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On November 22 2005 22:37 didierdrogba wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2005 22:33 HappyManRun wrote:On November 22 2005 16:22 Terran)Timmay wrote:
Well, I think that exorcisms are real because the people who are "possessed" beleive they are real. There is nothing to create reality other than human perception, thus, if one beleives they are truely possessed, and they beleive only an exorcism will expell the demon, then its real enough for them, and thats all the really matters. WOW, first time EVER someone on TL.net said something I wanna say Anywayz, what is Exorsismsm thingie? It sounds like pooping fecus crap?! :p exorcism is the art of removing demons from the body of a person. very real and very serious matters
Ahh! I thought it has something to do with poops! I was correct...
"Exorcismpoopythingie is the art of removing wastes from the body of a person. very real and very serious matters." Aye too true... imagine if you cannot perform the art of Exorcismpoopythingie...
Anyways, dont take the above comment seriously if you find it offensive, if you believe in exorcism, that's very fine. It is you that see the world, after all, not me seeing the world for you.
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Edit: Found this, might be interesting...
Hmm... official site with comments like so...
The Laity and Deliverance
by L. Margoni
How do deliverance prayers differ from exorcism prayers?
How do evil spirits enter Us?
Today solemn exorcism is limited to the priest who prays in the name of the church. There are three requirements in order for this rite to be performed; the person must be possessed, a priest must perform the exorcism, and finally an exorcism could only be performed with the permission of the bishop (see signs of possession).
With private exorcism a lay-person or religious can pray in his/her own name (not in the name of the church). What this means is the laity cannot use the Roman Ritual of Exorcism to pray in the name of the church.
HOW DO EVIL SPIRITS ENTER US?
Evil spirits enter us through many ways as indicated in the examples below.
Innocent Victim :
* In some cases, evil spirits enter an innocent victim. The victim may be an unborn baby who is cursed from the mother's womb. The curse can be from a jealous relative, friend, enemy, or even the child's own parents.
* Innocent victims may also include children who are not loved, who are mistreated or abused or rejection by other children, siblings, parents, etc. The abuse can range from sexual abuse, mental abuse, or physical abuse.
Those who Choose Evil:
In other cases, an evil spirit may enter us because of involvement in evil practices such as the occult, The occult is any practice that involves ceremonies, rituals, chants, magic, or activities that are obviously not God centered. These activities or rituals can change the course of nature, the the lives of those who are involved in such practices, and of course, the innocent victims.
* The Ouija board is a popular occult board game and there is also Dungeons and Dragons. Satan's main target in Dungeons and Dragons game is our youth. With Dungeons and Dragons, the most powerful and successful players are those who use magic. There is a Dungeons Master Guide that even teaches new beginners how to communicate with the dead, cast spells, and learn to chant.
* The use of magic revolves around evil spirits, psychic abilities and contacting spirits. Magic is a power that does not involve God. It is a power that is derived from such things as voodoo, sorcery, primitive religions and Satanism. Most witches who use magic swear that they do not worship Satan but worship the gods and goddesses of nature (The gods and goddesses of nature are hardly Jesus Christ! Of course they worship Satan! Do not let someone who practices this occult tell you otherwise!). Many of these individuals are unknown because they blend in quite well. They can be found attending church services in every denomination and they practice their magic on the side. If someone tells you white magic is ok--don't believe them!!
* Use of new age tools such as crystals, divination, astrology, tarot cards, crystal balls, reincarnation, pendulums, Yoga, Transcendental Meditation
* Those who make a pact with Satan or attend Satanic services or rituals.
* Going to Séances, fortune tellers, Horoscopes, or spiritualist meetings for the purpose of contact the dead.
* Those who use alcohol or mind changing drugs such as LSD, cocaine, marijuana
* Sex out of wedlock, active homosexuals, masturbation, adultery
* Those who have an abortion
* Those who try to commit suicidal or have suicidal tendencies.
____________________________________________________________________________
That's pretty harsh lol... now I cant watch YuGiOh anymore T__T haha...
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United Kingdom10597 Posts
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On November 22 2005 17:25 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Wasted manner up ffs. If you really cared about what i thought you woulda kept the last part of your post in your anus.
Do you even know what a forum troll is? Or did you hear one of the cool kids use it and now you wave it around to sound intelligent?
do u know what a fucking idiot sounds like? Listen to yourself jackass.
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There is always a spiritual reason behind everything as far as i know. For whatever that happens, there is a spiritual realm that is full of activity to make things (both good and bad) happen. However the good will always win no matter wat=P Angels outnumber demons 3:1 (read Rev)
So yeah exorcism (at least to me) is true and is factual
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Belgium8305 Posts
hm on second thought, never mind
I'm not gonna get into this heap of crap :D
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Anyone who belives in possesion go read the Crucible by Arthur Miller.
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haha dungeons and dragons.
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...And as the years go by
She will grow old and die
The roses in her garden fade away
Not one left for her grave
Not a rose for Emily...
Zombies - Rose for Emily
poor emily
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For those of you who are unaware, The Exorcist is based on a true story, in which the only chief difference is that it happened to a young boy. For those of you who have seen it, you can see how science failed to explain what was happening. The part where the young priest, the skeptical priest, records her voice and there are multiple voices recorded? That really happened. I know this because I know one of the advisors for the movie (Rev. John Nicola, his name is in the credits).
Is the presence of spirits in any way scientifically verifiable? As of yet, no. But a thousand years ago, neither were half of the things we know now. It is worthwhile, I believe, to accept that sometimes you do not know the answer to things, and should continue attempting to find out; not for vindicating your own views, but for the truth.
I oftentimes feel that my posts are wasted on this forum, as there are not enough people who seem willing to entertain the possibility that I may be right about all of us being wrong.
Anywho, it makes me chuckle when I see people say that science discredits religion. Simply because there is a natural cause and/or explanation for something, does not rule out supernatural influence. For instance, many of the plagues of Egypt are known and explicable scientifically. Were they just a string of coincidences, then? We can't say. It was about 3000 years ago.
We should all have a little more humility when dealing with just about anything, but especially about things both relatively unknown and potentially dangerous. Do I believe in possession, personally? Yes. I have seen and heard a lot of very strange things from very reliable people, the aforementioned Fr. Nicola included. I have also read and asked wiser heads about St. Thomas Aquinas' explanations as found in his Summa Theologica.
Could I be wrong? Absolutely. The only things I know for a certainty is that something exists, and beyond that I know that I know nothing else for a certainty. I have beliefs that stem from these two certainties, and I act upon them.
One should never make up one's mind and just hold fast to it without questioning. But if you begin to question, you should never stop, because no answer you ever get will be complete and whole; you've gotta keep trying.
Yeah... hopefully one or two people will actually read this.
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On November 22 2005 16:54 BrutalMenace wrote:
exorcism is real whether you believe it or not. It doesnt need to be mathematically or scientifically proven for it to be real. Because it just exist, and demons do possess some individuals. Emily rose was possesed by not 1, but Five Demons. Cain, Lucipher, Judas, and 2 other guys. She tried to ride out the demons but they would not leave under any circumstances. Im Catholic/Christian so i do believe in exorcism.
I feel bad for you. Not only did you name the demons (which sounds utterly ridiculous), you also are close minded.
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* Those who use alcohol or mind changing drugs such as LSD, cocaine, marijuana
* Sex out of wedlock, active homosexuals, masturbation, adultery
wtf?!?!
im condemned?
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Well, I have changed my mind. I'm now pro exorcism. Not that I believe it is true or anything but the people who do deserve to die or get jailed and thats a common occurance when it comes to exorcism as it seems.
I know I tend to flame chrisitians but I'm going to stop that for a while since this shit is way worse. Comeon, a spirit entering your body ect ect. It's so mindnumbing retarded. There is no such things. I know the best I can get out of this is some of you telling me that I'm ingnorant and that you in some way know this is true without years of medical training and knowledge of epilepsy or scitzofrenia ect. "Some priest in my church told me this is real so it must be true coz he told me that jesus is cool and that is true so everything he says is true. I dont want to stop and think and use logic to see if this makes sense at all."
Please list all logical reasons behind this and dont come and say that it's unexplainable and bla bla bla. What is a deamon/spirit whatever and how and why (ecept that the one possesed have jerked off ect) does it enter ones body. And why does praying and hitting someone with a plus make the deamon leave the body and where does it go after that?
This is just silly, there is no such thing. I hoped this thread would be nice as it were for most of page one but come on.
I just had to went this... sry, I'm back to being fussy and nice now...
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On November 23 2005 06:59 ObsoleteLogic wrote:For those of you who are unaware, The Exorcist is based on a true story, in which the only chief difference is that it happened to a young boy. For those of you who have seen it, you can see how science failed to explain what was happening. The part where the young priest, the skeptical priest, records her voice and there are multiple voices recorded? That really happened. I know this because I know one of the advisors for the movie (Rev. John Nicola, his name is in the credits). Is the presence of spirits in any way scientifically verifiable? As of yet, no. But a thousand years ago, neither were half of the things we know now. It is worthwhile, I believe, to accept that sometimes you do not know the answer to things, and should continue attempting to find out; not for vindicating your own views, but for the truth. I oftentimes feel that my posts are wasted on this forum, as there are not enough people who seem willing to entertain the possibility that I may be right about all of us being wrong. Anywho, it makes me chuckle when I see people say that science discredits religion. Simply because there is a natural cause and/or explanation for something, does not rule out supernatural influence. For instance, many of the plagues of Egypt are known and explicable scientifically. Were they just a string of coincidences, then? We can't say. It was about 3000 years ago. We should all have a little more humility when dealing with just about anything, but especially about things both relatively unknown and potentially dangerous. Do I believe in possession, personally? Yes. I have seen and heard a lot of very strange things from very reliable people, the aforementioned Fr. Nicola included. I have also read and asked wiser heads about St. Thomas Aquinas' explanations as found in his Summa Theologica. Could I be wrong? Absolutely. The only things I know for a certainty is that something exists, and beyond that I know that I know nothing else for a certainty. I have beliefs that stem from these two certainties, and I act upon them. One should never make up one's mind and just hold fast to it without questioning. But if you begin to question, you should never stop, because no answer you ever get will be complete and whole; you've gotta keep trying. Yeah... hopefully one or two people will actually read this.
Good post. I fully agree with the wasting of posts here.. probably because of the youngsters on this board.
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On November 23 2005 07:20 Eatme wrote:
Well, I have changed my mind. I'm now pro exorcism. Not that I believe it is true or anything but the people who do deserve to die or get jailed and thats a common occurance when it comes to exorcism as it seems.
I know I tend to flame chrisitians but I'm going to stop that for a while since this shit is way worse. Comeon, a spirit entering your body ect ect. It's so mindnumbing retarded. There is no such things. I know the best I can get out of this is some of you telling me that I'm ingnorant and that you in some way know this is true without years of medical training and knowledge of epilepsy or scitzofrenia ect. "Some priest in my church told me this is real so it must be true coz he told me that jesus is cool and that is true so everything he says is true. I dont want to stop and think and use logic to see if this makes sense at all."
Please list all logical reasons behind this and dont come and say that it's unexplainable and bla bla bla. What is a deamon/spirit whatever and how and why (ecept that the one possesed have jerked off ect) does it enter ones body. And why does praying and hitting someone with a plus make the deamon leave the body and where does it go after that?
This is just silly, there is no such thing. I hoped this thread would be nice as it were for most of page one but come on.
I just had to went this... sry, I'm back to being fussy and nice now...
Have you ever used an ouija-bord? It is used to summon ghosts/entities. You've probably heard of it. Anyway do some research about it. The reason it is so dangerous is because noone knows exactly what happens. Well basically u let the entity take possesion over your body so it will give you the answers you ask it. If a strong ghost/entity does NOT want to leave your body it will stay till driven out. And that is a fact my friend.
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On November 23 2005 06:59 ObsoleteLogic wrote:For those of you who are unaware, The Exorcist is based on a true story, in which the only chief difference is that it happened to a young boy. For those of you who have seen it, you can see how science failed to explain what was happening. The part where the young priest, the skeptical priest, records her voice and there are multiple voices recorded? That really happened. I know this because I know one of the advisors for the movie (Rev. John Nicola, his name is in the credits). Is the presence of spirits in any way scientifically verifiable? As of yet, no. But a thousand years ago, neither were half of the things we know now. It is worthwhile, I believe, to accept that sometimes you do not know the answer to things, and should continue attempting to find out; not for vindicating your own views, but for the truth. I oftentimes feel that my posts are wasted on this forum, as there are not enough people who seem willing to entertain the possibility that I may be right about all of us being wrong. Anywho, it makes me chuckle when I see people say that science discredits religion. Simply because there is a natural cause and/or explanation for something, does not rule out supernatural influence. For instance, many of the plagues of Egypt are known and explicable scientifically. Were they just a string of coincidences, then? We can't say. It was about 3000 years ago. We should all have a little more humility when dealing with just about anything, but especially about things both relatively unknown and potentially dangerous. Do I believe in possession, personally? Yes. I have seen and heard a lot of very strange things from very reliable people, the aforementioned Fr. Nicola included. I have also read and asked wiser heads about St. Thomas Aquinas' explanations as found in his Summa Theologica. Could I be wrong? Absolutely. The only things I know for a certainty is that something exists, and beyond that I know that I know nothing else for a certainty. I have beliefs that stem from these two certainties, and I act upon them. One should never make up one's mind and just hold fast to it without questioning. But if you begin to question, you should never stop, because no answer you ever get will be complete and whole; you've gotta keep trying. Yeah... hopefully one or two people will actually read this.
Actually, I sympathize with your position. However, you're making an important mistake. I fully agree that, as Socrates claimed, one ought to continue searching for the truth rather than cast it as unknowable or known absolutely. But there is an important distinction to be made between searching for the truth, conducting experiments, pursuing alternate areas of research and believing that paranormal activity without question exists regardless of the lack of any clear scientific evidence. I fully support the former and I fully condemn the latter.
Furthermore, many people, yourself included it seems, are for some reason unable to recognize that dualism in any modern form fails to put forth any positive hypotheses. In other words, there is no theoretical vehicle as of yet that dualists can use to test their theories. We need clear theories about what dualism would look like and explanations and predictions about phenomena based on those theories. Currently, we are utterly lacking in this aspect.
We simply have no good reason to believe that paranormal activity is anything other than material.
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On November 23 2005 08:13 Knosi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2005 07:20 Eatme wrote:
Well, I have changed my mind. I'm now pro exorcism. Not that I believe it is true or anything but the people who do deserve to die or get jailed and thats a common occurance when it comes to exorcism as it seems.
I know I tend to flame chrisitians but I'm going to stop that for a while since this shit is way worse. Comeon, a spirit entering your body ect ect. It's so mindnumbing retarded. There is no such things. I know the best I can get out of this is some of you telling me that I'm ingnorant and that you in some way know this is true without years of medical training and knowledge of epilepsy or scitzofrenia ect. "Some priest in my church told me this is real so it must be true coz he told me that jesus is cool and that is true so everything he says is true. I dont want to stop and think and use logic to see if this makes sense at all."
Please list all logical reasons behind this and dont come and say that it's unexplainable and bla bla bla. What is a deamon/spirit whatever and how and why (ecept that the one possesed have jerked off ect) does it enter ones body. And why does praying and hitting someone with a plus make the deamon leave the body and where does it go after that?
This is just silly, there is no such thing. I hoped this thread would be nice as it were for most of page one but come on.
I just had to went this... sry, I'm back to being fussy and nice now... Have you ever used an ouija-bord? It is used to summon ghosts/entities. You've probably heard of it. Anyway do some research about it. The reason it is so dangerous is because noone knows exactly what happens. Well basically u let the entity take possesion over your body so it will give you the answers you ask it. If a strong ghost/entity does NOT want to leave your body it will stay till driven out. And that is a fact my friend. I cannot argue that weird stuff does not happend when using an ouija-board but it's most likely something that has to do with ideomotor effect or other subconscious moving of the planchette, glass, coin or whatever you use while using the board.
When blindfolded people cant make any readable messages.
Ouija boards and exorcism ar both hoaxes and that is a fact my friend.
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Belgium8305 Posts
how can you say an ouija-board lets an entity take possession of your body and then say it's a fact ztoirhbrontyityooyinjityntgbngrborntbthuiretardiofhgrtfhjbrtjhniot
ok i'm cool i'm cool
seriously though, I'm not gonna go around bashing religious people because I'm an atheist, if they feel the need to believe in some higher power, whatever, if it works for them, fine, as long as they don't go around bugging other people about it
but to state unprovable crap and then claim it's fact is just plain retarded, sorry (I especially hate it when people act like the Bible is The Big Book O' Facts)
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nothing is a fact, my friends
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obsoletelogic that was a nice post and yea i agree
eatme...that was bullshit how can u explain all that weird shit that happens, the voices that occur the paranormal shit and all sudden telekenises (whatever) moving things around
the hate for the cross (plus, u dumbass) why would someone hate the cross so much no one does that except the devil or ghost :/
do u know where demons are? they are in hell thats where they go you dumb shit pluz people who get possesed are those who do not believe in possession or something in that form so good luck
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does the importance of carefully controlled experiments mean nothing to you people?
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Belgium8305 Posts
of course, I consider everything bullshit till it has been soundly and irrefutably proven and I think that's how everyone should evaluate data
sadly this is nowhere near the case
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Just make sure you don't end up like this guy
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United Kingdom10597 Posts
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wow radu that guy sucks. that is so easy how did he fuck that up. loooos fake almost, or did he pull a muscle?
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United Kingdom10597 Posts
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United Kingdom10597 Posts
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there's a difference between citing 'patterns of paranormal behavior' and putting forth a serious theory about dualism.
Does parapsychology possess any significant body of theory concerning what a nonmaterial being is like, a theory of what nonphysical elements compose it, and what nonphysical laws govern their interactions with each other and with the various aspects of the material world? Importantly, this question concerns only the EXISTENCE of of relevant theory, not its verification. Does parapsychology have any significant body of generally shared theory with which to even address the empirical phenomena? The sad fact of it is, it does not. This a fact that separates it from other 'theoretical underdogs' that become accepted theories.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On November 23 2005 08:13 Knosi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2005 07:20 Eatme wrote:
Well, I have changed my mind. I'm now pro exorcism. Not that I believe it is true or anything but the people who do deserve to die or get jailed and thats a common occurance when it comes to exorcism as it seems.
I know I tend to flame chrisitians but I'm going to stop that for a while since this shit is way worse. Comeon, a spirit entering your body ect ect. It's so mindnumbing retarded. There is no such things. I know the best I can get out of this is some of you telling me that I'm ingnorant and that you in some way know this is true without years of medical training and knowledge of epilepsy or scitzofrenia ect. "Some priest in my church told me this is real so it must be true coz he told me that jesus is cool and that is true so everything he says is true. I dont want to stop and think and use logic to see if this makes sense at all."
Please list all logical reasons behind this and dont come and say that it's unexplainable and bla bla bla. What is a deamon/spirit whatever and how and why (ecept that the one possesed have jerked off ect) does it enter ones body. And why does praying and hitting someone with a plus make the deamon leave the body and where does it go after that?
This is just silly, there is no such thing. I hoped this thread would be nice as it were for most of page one but come on.
I just had to went this... sry, I'm back to being fussy and nice now... Have you ever used an ouija-bord? It is used to summon ghosts/entities. You've probably heard of it. Anyway do some research about it. The reason it is so dangerous is because noone knows exactly what happens. Well basically u let the entity take possesion over your body so it will give you the answers you ask it. If a strong ghost/entity does NOT want to leave your body it will stay till driven out. And that is a fact my friend.
And I suppose you know this because you've been possesed in this way yourself?
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Sweden33719 Posts
On November 23 2005 10:32 Chibi[OWNS] wrote:
mitsy this is a serious discussion about ghosts............
Rofl
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United Kingdom10597 Posts
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From the real emily rose link:
One of the demons called himself Hitler, and spoke with a Frankish accent (Hitler was born in Austria). Not one of those present during the exorcism ever had a doubt about the authenticity of the presence of these demons.
They nickname themselves. It doesn't have to mean it's the real Lucifer or Judas or Cain..etc(It's possible they may be the real ones but it's almost impossible to prove). Most likely like a codename specifically for their mission which that time is attacking Emily Rose (Annaliese Michel). One thing I've read about is that they ever named themselves according to specialties. For instance, Gluttony, Greed, Lust, Pride....etc. This possession is using names of big characters in the bible. I think they're naming themselves according to rank for this possession.
Damn tricky evil demons. There have been an exorcism where they pretend to be cured where it's only one demon who left the possessed person. The priest knew that it is trick through what is known as the Holy Spirit which I won't further elaborate except that it's something or someone on the good side. (I'll tell that the Holy Spirit is real through experience but I can't properly prove it .....yet?). Anyways, before that Catholic priest was called, that possessed guy had been "exorcised" by Buddhist & Taoist priests but which the demons "returned" or more specifically reactivate. Hope we humans can vaporize them into non-existence or use them to power our "Matrix" for messing in our lives....
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Dan[SES], just a quick note on your terminology... dualism is total seperation of spiritual and physical realms. I never said I believe or support that.
Anyway... I think that the mere fact that humans can conceive of the notion of something empirically unverifiable, and even conceptualize (in a strictly non-physical sense) the actuality of such a thing, shows something to us. It's inconsistant with the rest of our nature; we can conceive of the notion of a different color than those we can perceive, but can we conceptualize it?
It's a rather interesting thought, I think (:
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So , what kinda proofs you guys had since your so sure about this ? :C
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On November 22 2005 16:22 Terran)Timmay wrote:
Well, I think that exorcisms are real because the people who are "possessed" beleive they are real. There is nothing to create reality other than human perception, thus, if one beleives they are truely possessed, and they beleive only an exorcism will expell the demon, then its real enough for them, and thats all the really matters.
On November 23 2005 09:57 vGl-CoW wrote:
of course, I consider everything bullshit till it has been soundly and irrefutably proven and I think that's how everyone should evaluate data
sadly this is nowhere near the case
i dont understand you people who have this strange view of reality that it only includes what you can touch see and hear personally. It is very ignorant to think the world is as simple as that...and if thats not the case, what defines normal/reality in your eyes? None of you have ever been to outter space or seen it with yoru own two eyes, how do you know it exists? other planets? Even other countries, how do you know there are other continents in the world if you've never been to them, or seen the entire planet as a whole, proving to you that its not just one big landmass that the evil government has seperated into regions and made them into "countries" in our eyes.
you say give evidence to support/prove it? give me evidence to refute it!
...anyone up for a 1v1?
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Sweden33719 Posts
On November 23 2005 18:18 Chraej wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2005 16:22 Terran)Timmay wrote:
Well, I think that exorcisms are real because the people who are "possessed" beleive they are real. There is nothing to create reality other than human perception, thus, if one beleives they are truely possessed, and they beleive only an exorcism will expell the demon, then its real enough for them, and thats all the really matters. Show nested quote +On November 23 2005 09:57 vGl-CoW wrote:
of course, I consider everything bullshit till it has been soundly and irrefutably proven and I think that's how everyone should evaluate data
sadly this is nowhere near the case i dont understand you people who have this strange view of reality that it only includes what you can touch see and hear personally. It is very ignorant to think the world is as simple as that...and if thats not the case, what defines normal/reality in your eyes? None of you have ever been to outter space or seen it with yoru own two eyes, how do you know it exists? other planets? Even other countries, how do you know there are other continents in the world if you've never been to them, or seen the entire planet as a whole, proving to you that its not just one big landmass that the evil government has seperated into regions and made them into "countries" in our eyes. you say give evidence to support/prove it? give me evidence to refute it! ...anyone up for a 1v1?
Because people have been sailing for the past 123819028390 years, maybe THAT'S why we know it's not one gigantic pizz a -_--------------
MAYBE all the hundreds of photos from space are a million times better than the evidence you've got working for your side -_-
Sure, if you want to argue for exocism etc, that's fine.. But comparing it to something so well documented as what you just compared it to is stupid!
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and that movie is evidence of possession...so...if you research it, its well documented indeed. If all that is false, why couldnt your view of the earth be false...saying someone sailed the world and took photos doesnt prove anything if saying someone recorded, witnessed, and confessed to being possessed doesnt prove anything...logic?
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Typical religious copout, "prove me wrong". Sorry pal, the burden of proof lays soley on the proclaimer. Can you prove that i havent read Revision 13 of the zoning and clearances book for washington state? No, you cant. If i claim that i have, then it is up to me to prove that i have.
Scientists do not require that they themselves have tangible proof of something, simply that someone does, and that person can show it if called upon. Then of course there is some faith in abstract theories like the big bang and so forth when it comes to things that have no direct proof in existence, yet have so many other backings to support them excluding you from hypocrisy.
Exorcism has absolutely nothing backing it up other than another person's opinion.
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ok so everyone that think it's all bullshit and really stupid, try to get a ouija board, use it seriously, then u'll know. And i can guarantee you won't like it.
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United Kingdom10597 Posts
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On November 23 2005 18:57 Fayth[pG] wrote:
ok so everyone that think it's all bullshit and really stupid, try to get a ouija board, use it seriously, then u'll know. And i can guarantee you won't like it. I did. I moved it around myself to fuck with everyone. You do know the secret underground rule dont you?
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yeah i've head that ouija boards are freaky, i've never used one though, everyone that uses them gets freaked though.
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Exorcism is real but people look at the word as some crazy demonic thing which it is not. possesion and demons are fake. The storys however are true, but people have changed them and put there own words into them over time. There is a spirtual side, and a reality side to exorcism, the spiritual side is the side where people believe demons have walked into an individuals body, and took control over them. I don't believe that is real, people can however lose control of thereself. The exorcists put evil upon thereselves because they either hate themselves for doing something wrong in the past, then they go insane, or they have been traumatized. People like Emily Rose for example create these images and demons in there head, kind of like they have 2 personalitys, then they become so upset, and so much is going throw there mind that they force themselves to do things like drink there own piss. Exorcism is not natural or spirtual, anybody can be an exorcist if they want to. exorcism is a mental illness.
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Why fight with all your might to not believe something so simple, and apparently, evident as this footage and the existance of demons? alot of posters cant stand the thought and believe that they have somehow dividned the answer to life and its mysteries in a snap.
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and some people cannot stand the thought of not knowing so bad that they must make up shit in order to sleep at night. The unknown is a scary thought sometimes, some of us can handle it, some cant.
And please man, that "video evidence" did nothing but further solidify my disbelief in exorcism. All i saw were bored attention starved house wives.
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"The Bible never says that human soul life exists inside the womb(physical body)."
Meaning there is no soul in our bodies as of now. We need to evolve as HUMANS to earn it. We are soulless, however we do have something divine namely our pineal gland located in the middle of the brain. We need to train it again because it hasn't been used for who knows how long.
"people who live a certain way or achieve certain things are described sometimes as being divine (see the bhudda boi who meditates for ages THEN starts to exhibit divine properties). is this because spirits (whatever) are attracted to them/their way of life/purity/strength of soul/whatever?"
Noone exhibits divine properties, you earn them. And not by just meditating like the most people do. But by meditating how your supposed to. That is leaving your body mindless so you can reach a higher dimension than then just the fifth(dreamworld). In this dimension you can eliminate your ego's. The more ego's you free, the more Christ you become. So in the end if you have eliminated all your ego's, you are a god and you can walk on water etc.
There are so many more details but I don't have the time to explain it, nor do I have the energy because I'm writing this for maybe a few interested. The rest will flame me.
http://www.gnosis-usa.com is where you will find the information if you are intestered in this, the practices you will need to do to evolve.
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Belgium8305 Posts
oh Knosi is with the gnostici, that explains a lot haha
and as for Chraej, Newbsaibot pretty much nailed it right there. First of all, I don't need to see with my own eyes that the world is round or whatever, that's not at all what I said, there just needs to be proof that can be put forth.
Second of all, yeah, proof of burden is on you, of course. If you make up something crazy, it's up to you to prove it, not to the rest to disprove it. If you disagree, go prove that the flying spaghetti monster doesn't exist.
The footage doesn't prove ANYTHING. Go take a look in your average mental institution, you'll see plenty of people that look like they're regular demon-motels by the way they're behaving. Does this mean they're possessed? No, they're just insane.
Believing in stuff is basically nothing more than accepting easy answers to the unknown. I don't know how the universe was created, but I'd rather wait till science figures it out (and they're doing a fine job on it, too) than to just assume some almighty entity created it.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On November 23 2005 18:57 Fayth[pG] wrote:
ok so everyone that think it's all bullshit and really stupid, try to get a ouija board, use it seriously, then u'll know. And i can guarantee you won't like it.
http://skepdic.com/ouija.html
Yawn
;p
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Sweden33719 Posts
On November 23 2005 18:53 Chraej wrote:
and that movie is evidence of possession...so...if you research it, its well documented indeed. If all that is false, why couldnt your view of the earth be false...saying someone sailed the world and took photos doesnt prove anything if saying someone recorded, witnessed, and confessed to being possessed doesnt prove anything...logic?
Didn't even watch the movie, but from the description, no.
The evidence put forth by your side is not in the least bit scientific or unbiased.. It's testimonials by people who have something to gain, or don't know any better -_-
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Omfg she's insane...but let's say she has demons so that we can publicize the existence of demons so that the gullible people will follow God!
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On November 24 2005 05:19 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2005 18:57 Fayth[pG] wrote:
ok so everyone that think it's all bullshit and really stupid, try to get a ouija board, use it seriously, then u'll know. And i can guarantee you won't like it. http://skepdic.com/ouija.htmlYawn ;p
lol
http://skepdic.com/exorcism.html
for those who are too bored reading all these posts to reach to a conclusion,here's what these guys say about exorcism.
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On November 24 2005 05:19 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2005 18:57 Fayth[pG] wrote:
ok so everyone that think it's all bullshit and really stupid, try to get a ouija board, use it seriously, then u'll know. And i can guarantee you won't like it. http://skepdic.com/ouija.htmlYawn ;p
wow this credible site OBVIOUSLY disproves the realiabilty of ouija boards
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