• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:28
CEST 03:28
KST 10:28
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro4 Preview: On Course12Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview7[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Progenitors8Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun13[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16
Community News
Weekly Cups (May 4-10): Clem, MaxPax, herO win1Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !11Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple0RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event12Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results1
StarCraft 2
General
MaNa leaves Team Liquid Weekly Cups (May 4-10): Clem, MaxPax, herO win Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple
Tourneys
2026 GSL Season 2 Qualifiers Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! $5,000 WardiTV Spring Championship 2026 SC2 INu's Battles#16 <BO.9> Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 525 Wheel of Misfortune The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 524 Death and Taxes Mutation # 523 Firewall
Brood War
General
Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ? Flashes ASL S21 Ro8 Review ASL Tickets to Live Event Finals? BW General Discussion Pros React To: Leta vs Tulbo (ASL S21, Ro.8)
Tourneys
[ASL21] Semifinals A [BSL22] RO8 Bracket Stage + Another TieBreaker [ASL21] Semifinals B [ASL21] Ro8 Day 4
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game PC Games Sales Thread
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How EEG Data Can Predict Gam…
TrAiDoS
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1400 users

President Obama Re-Elected - Page 773

Forum Index > General Forum
Post a Reply
Prev 1 771 772 773 774 775 1504 Next
Hey guys! We'll be closing this thread shortly, but we will make an American politics megathread where we can continue the discussions in here.

The new thread can be found here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=383301
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
October 12 2012 02:55 GMT
#15441
On October 12 2012 11:51 CajunMan wrote:

Show nested quote +
On October 12 2012 11:46 JinDesu wrote:
On October 12 2012 11:44 CajunMan wrote:
On October 12 2012 11:41 Tarot wrote:
On October 12 2012 11:40 xDaunt wrote:
On October 12 2012 11:37 Risen wrote:
xDaunt, do you feel everyone gets a fair shot in America? I know I come from privilege and have an upper hand on other people, so obviously I don't think everyone gets a fair shot. What say you?

Yes, everyone gets a fair shot. People are free to make of their lives what they will. The issue is why some do and some don't. In my opinion, it all starts with the family.

Then how is that a fair shot? Last time I checked, you don't get to choose what family you're born into.


The idea isn't that you are given anything it's no one is holding you back. YOU can go out and get a job and work your way through school. YOU can create a new product. YOU can do pursue your heart's desire like everyone else before you. And just like them the one thing you are guarrenteed is the chance to do it for yourself unimpeded.


I think that's fine - except there's quite a lot that impede upon the lower classes' ability to rise amongst the ranks. And I do think the government, over time, has done a lot to remove those impediments.



Actually we do a ton to promote growth we have freaking programs to feed anyone who can't feed themselves programs for every medical or school need. What else do you want? Do you want free money do you think everyone should start rich from Bitch 10 million in the bank and a house with a white picket fence no matter what you do? Where does it end? It doesn't that is where at some point you have to work the government isn't here to prevent you from failing it life its to protect your life and insure others are not in your way (by murder or harm)


Social mobility in the U.S. is lower than the majority of developed nations, including highly socialized nations like Denmark and Norway.
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
kmillz
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1548 Posts
October 12 2012 02:55 GMT
#15442
Just checked like 5 different polls online to see who most people think won the debate, surprisingly all of them gave Ryan the win. Ranging from 55%-45% Ryan to 65%-35% Ryan.
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
October 12 2012 02:56 GMT
#15443
On October 12 2012 11:55 kmillz wrote:
Just checked like 5 different polls online to see who most people think won the debate, surprisingly all of them gave Ryan the win. Ranging from 55%-45% Ryan to 65%-35% Ryan.


you missed the one at the top of google news which had biden at ~60/40
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18857 Posts
October 12 2012 02:56 GMT
#15444
On October 12 2012 11:55 kmillz wrote:
Just checked like 5 different polls online to see who most people think won the debate, surprisingly all of them gave Ryan the win. Ranging from 55%-45% Ryan to 65%-35% Ryan.

That's funny, because I just checked like 5 different polls online to see who most people think won the debate, unsurprisingly all of them gave Biden the win. Ranging from 55%-45% Biden to 65%-35% Biden.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
biology]major
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2253 Posts
October 12 2012 02:56 GMT
#15445
On October 12 2012 11:54 CajunMan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 12 2012 11:50 biology]major wrote:
On October 12 2012 11:40 xDaunt wrote:
On October 12 2012 11:37 Risen wrote:
xDaunt, do you feel everyone gets a fair shot in America? I know I come from privilege and have an upper hand on other people, so obviously I don't think everyone gets a fair shot. What say you?

Yes, everyone gets a fair shot. People are free to make of their lives what they will. The issue is why some do and some don't. In my opinion, it all starts with the family.


yeah man, that kid raised in the ghetto with no dad and a mom who can barely pay the bills, has the same "fair" shot as the rich white kid who gets his parents to pay for his college



He does just like them he can not be discriminated against for anything except what his work value is and what his willing to do to get where he wants to go. Everyone has the same opportunity he just like the white kid's parents who worked hard FOR THE SPECIFIC REASON that their kid would not have to go through the trials and tribulations they did.


yeah man, the white kid chose to be born into the rich wealthy family, and the black kid, well he chose wrong
Question.?
CajunMan
Profile Joined July 2010
United States823 Posts
October 12 2012 02:57 GMT
#15446
On October 12 2012 11:55 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 12 2012 11:51 CajunMan wrote:

On October 12 2012 11:46 JinDesu wrote:
On October 12 2012 11:44 CajunMan wrote:
On October 12 2012 11:41 Tarot wrote:
On October 12 2012 11:40 xDaunt wrote:
On October 12 2012 11:37 Risen wrote:
xDaunt, do you feel everyone gets a fair shot in America? I know I come from privilege and have an upper hand on other people, so obviously I don't think everyone gets a fair shot. What say you?

Yes, everyone gets a fair shot. People are free to make of their lives what they will. The issue is why some do and some don't. In my opinion, it all starts with the family.

Then how is that a fair shot? Last time I checked, you don't get to choose what family you're born into.


The idea isn't that you are given anything it's no one is holding you back. YOU can go out and get a job and work your way through school. YOU can create a new product. YOU can do pursue your heart's desire like everyone else before you. And just like them the one thing you are guarrenteed is the chance to do it for yourself unimpeded.


I think that's fine - except there's quite a lot that impede upon the lower classes' ability to rise amongst the ranks. And I do think the government, over time, has done a lot to remove those impediments.



Actually we do a ton to promote growth we have freaking programs to feed anyone who can't feed themselves programs for every medical or school need. What else do you want? Do you want free money do you think everyone should start rich from Bitch 10 million in the bank and a house with a white picket fence no matter what you do? Where does it end? It doesn't that is where at some point you have to work the government isn't here to prevent you from failing it life its to protect your life and insure others are not in your way (by murder or harm)


Social mobility in the U.S. is lower than the majority of developed nations, including highly socialized nations like Denmark and Norway.


Denmark and Norway also are about 1/50 the size of the USA as a whole.
acker
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2958 Posts
October 12 2012 02:57 GMT
#15447
On October 12 2012 11:56 farvacola wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 12 2012 11:55 kmillz wrote:
Just checked like 5 different polls online to see who most people think won the debate, surprisingly all of them gave Ryan the win. Ranging from 55%-45% Ryan to 65%-35% Ryan.

That's funny, because I just checked like 5 different polls online to see who most people think won the debate, unsurprisingly all of them gave Biden the win. Ranging from 55%-45% Biden to 65%-35% Biden.

Does anyone know what betting agencies are saying?

I trust them more than flash polls, people are more honest with money on the line.
sevencck
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada705 Posts
October 12 2012 02:57 GMT
#15448
I didn't think Biden was particularly rude, but whatever it doesn't matter. Biden could have gone junk yard dog on Ryan and Obama would still appear calm, polite, and presidential after the first debate. Win win if you ask me.
I like to think that the moon is there even if I am not looking at it. -Albert Einstein
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
October 12 2012 02:57 GMT
#15449
On October 12 2012 11:55 kmillz wrote:
Just checked like 5 different polls online to see who most people think won the debate, surprisingly all of them gave Ryan the win. Ranging from 55%-45% Ryan to 65%-35% Ryan.

I'm guessing that is a result of Biden's antics.

Krauthammer just said that the winner of the debate depends upon how one received it. If someone read the transcript, it was even. If someone watched it on TV, Biden lost. If someone heard it on radio, Biden won. I'm not sure that I agree with him, but it is an interesting point.
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
October 12 2012 02:58 GMT
#15450
can i haz links to flash polls for the debate?
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
CajunMan
Profile Joined July 2010
United States823 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-12 02:58:57
October 12 2012 02:58 GMT
#15451
On October 12 2012 11:56 biology]major wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 12 2012 11:54 CajunMan wrote:
On October 12 2012 11:50 biology]major wrote:
On October 12 2012 11:40 xDaunt wrote:
On October 12 2012 11:37 Risen wrote:
xDaunt, do you feel everyone gets a fair shot in America? I know I come from privilege and have an upper hand on other people, so obviously I don't think everyone gets a fair shot. What say you?

Yes, everyone gets a fair shot. People are free to make of their lives what they will. The issue is why some do and some don't. In my opinion, it all starts with the family.


yeah man, that kid raised in the ghetto with no dad and a mom who can barely pay the bills, has the same "fair" shot as the rich white kid who gets his parents to pay for his college



He does just like them he can not be discriminated against for anything except what his work value is and what his willing to do to get where he wants to go. Everyone has the same opportunity he just like the white kid's parents who worked hard FOR THE SPECIFIC REASON that their kid would not have to go through the trials and tribulations they did.


yeah man, the white kid chose to be born into the rich wealthy family, and the black kid, well he chose wrong


Neither of them chose anything with their birth but the white kid can choose to do drugs and become a meth head and the black kid and get a full time job and work his way through college for free if he studies hard enough.
JinDesu
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3990 Posts
October 12 2012 02:58 GMT
#15452
On October 12 2012 11:51 CajunMan wrote:

Show nested quote +
On October 12 2012 11:46 JinDesu wrote:
On October 12 2012 11:44 CajunMan wrote:
On October 12 2012 11:41 Tarot wrote:
On October 12 2012 11:40 xDaunt wrote:
On October 12 2012 11:37 Risen wrote:
xDaunt, do you feel everyone gets a fair shot in America? I know I come from privilege and have an upper hand on other people, so obviously I don't think everyone gets a fair shot. What say you?

Yes, everyone gets a fair shot. People are free to make of their lives what they will. The issue is why some do and some don't. In my opinion, it all starts with the family.

Then how is that a fair shot? Last time I checked, you don't get to choose what family you're born into.


The idea isn't that you are given anything it's no one is holding you back. YOU can go out and get a job and work your way through school. YOU can create a new product. YOU can do pursue your heart's desire like everyone else before you. And just like them the one thing you are guarrenteed is the chance to do it for yourself unimpeded.


I think that's fine - except there's quite a lot that impede upon the lower classes' ability to rise amongst the ranks. And I do think the government, over time, has done a lot to remove those impediments.



Actually we do a ton to promote growth we have freaking programs to feed anyone who can't feed themselves programs for every medical or school need. What else do you want? Do you want free money do you think everyone should start rich from Bitch 10 million in the bank and a house with a white picket fence no matter what you do? Where does it end? It doesn't that is where at some point you have to work the government isn't here to prevent you from failing it life its to protect your life and insure others are not in your way (by murder or harm)


I'm not arguing for welfare programs. I'm arguing against corporations taking advantage of the poor, and the majority taking advantage of the minority. Things like women's suffrage, gay rights, etc.

I personally like the ACA's concept. I think it's just implemented incorrectly. The government should regulate against unfair practices - not take over. That's my idea of government.
Yargh
acker
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2958 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-12 02:59:59
October 12 2012 02:59 GMT
#15453
http://www.businessinsider.com/intrade-obama-contract-rallies-during-vice-presidential-debate-2012-10

Intrade's odds.

Basically, nothing substantial has changed.
biology]major
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2253 Posts
October 12 2012 03:00 GMT
#15454
On October 12 2012 11:58 CajunMan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 12 2012 11:56 biology]major wrote:
On October 12 2012 11:54 CajunMan wrote:
On October 12 2012 11:50 biology]major wrote:
On October 12 2012 11:40 xDaunt wrote:
On October 12 2012 11:37 Risen wrote:
xDaunt, do you feel everyone gets a fair shot in America? I know I come from privilege and have an upper hand on other people, so obviously I don't think everyone gets a fair shot. What say you?

Yes, everyone gets a fair shot. People are free to make of their lives what they will. The issue is why some do and some don't. In my opinion, it all starts with the family.


yeah man, that kid raised in the ghetto with no dad and a mom who can barely pay the bills, has the same "fair" shot as the rich white kid who gets his parents to pay for his college



He does just like them he can not be discriminated against for anything except what his work value is and what his willing to do to get where he wants to go. Everyone has the same opportunity he just like the white kid's parents who worked hard FOR THE SPECIFIC REASON that their kid would not have to go through the trials and tribulations they did.


yeah man, the white kid chose to be born into the rich wealthy family, and the black kid, well he chose wrong


Neither of them chose anything with their birth but the white kid can choose to do drugs and become a meth head and the black kid and get a full time job and work his way through college for free if he studies hard enough.


yeah man, its the same fair shot. One has the luxury of choosing to be a meth head and still possibly succeed
Question.?
Harbinger631
Profile Joined September 2010
United States376 Posts
October 12 2012 03:01 GMT
#15455
If you want to talk about American fairness, the issue that you people should be talking about is not whether or not you were born in a good socioeconomic status, it's whether or not you have both parents, and if they're worth a damn.
DoubleReed
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States4130 Posts
October 12 2012 03:01 GMT
#15456
On October 12 2012 11:58 JinDesu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 12 2012 11:51 CajunMan wrote:

On October 12 2012 11:46 JinDesu wrote:
On October 12 2012 11:44 CajunMan wrote:
On October 12 2012 11:41 Tarot wrote:
On October 12 2012 11:40 xDaunt wrote:
On October 12 2012 11:37 Risen wrote:
xDaunt, do you feel everyone gets a fair shot in America? I know I come from privilege and have an upper hand on other people, so obviously I don't think everyone gets a fair shot. What say you?

Yes, everyone gets a fair shot. People are free to make of their lives what they will. The issue is why some do and some don't. In my opinion, it all starts with the family.

Then how is that a fair shot? Last time I checked, you don't get to choose what family you're born into.


The idea isn't that you are given anything it's no one is holding you back. YOU can go out and get a job and work your way through school. YOU can create a new product. YOU can do pursue your heart's desire like everyone else before you. And just like them the one thing you are guarrenteed is the chance to do it for yourself unimpeded.


I think that's fine - except there's quite a lot that impede upon the lower classes' ability to rise amongst the ranks. And I do think the government, over time, has done a lot to remove those impediments.



Actually we do a ton to promote growth we have freaking programs to feed anyone who can't feed themselves programs for every medical or school need. What else do you want? Do you want free money do you think everyone should start rich from Bitch 10 million in the bank and a house with a white picket fence no matter what you do? Where does it end? It doesn't that is where at some point you have to work the government isn't here to prevent you from failing it life its to protect your life and insure others are not in your way (by murder or harm)


I'm not arguing for welfare programs. I'm arguing against corporations taking advantage of the poor, and the majority taking advantage of the minority. Things like women's suffrage, gay rights, etc.

I personally like the ACA's concept. I think it's just implemented incorrectly. The government should regulate against unfair practices - not take over. That's my idea of government.


ACA is not Socialized healthcare. It's regulation. I have no idea what you mean because ACA is not a government takeover of healthcare by any normal definition.
Rassy
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands2308 Posts
October 12 2012 03:01 GMT
#15457
If ryan won according to polls it must be because he is young and biden is old.
Maybe ryan represents "change" better then the seasoned biden.
Think what the candidates say is pretty irrelevant btw, and its mostly how people come across what makes the winner(see romney winning first debate while apearently using a few lies)
Souma
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
October 12 2012 03:01 GMT
#15458
It comes down to a simple scenario.

Two kids. Academic ability exactly the same. They both apply to Harvard. One kid came from a middle-class family with a single mother. The other was born into the family of two wealthy Harvard graduates who have been boosting the school with donations.

They've both worked equally as hard. Do they both have equal chances of getting accepted into Harvard?

Yeah, hard work totally means everything.
Writer
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
October 12 2012 03:02 GMT
#15459
Things we all got from tonight's debate I think:

-Obama would be best off meeting about 1/2 to 2/3 of the way between his performance a week ago and Biden's tonight at the next debates
-Ryan has officially come out and said they would not attempt to reverse Roe v. Wade with their court appointments
-Romney would do well to develop a few more specifics when Obama inevitably mentions lack of specifics
-moderators should meet halfway between a week ago and tonight
-Ryan did not come off as a policy wonk (questionable, this may not be agreed on by all)
acker
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2958 Posts
October 12 2012 03:02 GMT
#15460
https://data.intrade.com/graphing/jsp/timeAndSalesForm.jsp?contractId=743474&tradeURL=https://www.intrade.com

Wait, Intrade's ticking up a bit.

I'm just going to wait.
Prev 1 771 772 773 774 775 1504 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
2026 GSL Season 2: Qualifiers
CranKy Ducklings106
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SpeCial 207
Nina 110
CosmosSc2 42
RuFF_SC2 3
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 6321
Artosis 438
NaDa 38
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm152
League of Legends
summit1g9491
Doublelift3957
JimRising 449
Counter-Strike
minikerr14
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox1013
Other Games
tarik_tv3214
Day[9].tv934
monkeys_forever527
C9.Mang0499
WinterStarcraft410
Maynarde162
ViBE80
Mew2King28
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick653
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 214
• davetesta31
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• Scarra966
• Day9tv934
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
8h 32m
OSC
8h 32m
Replay Cast
22h 32m
RSL Revival
1d 8h
OSC
1d 11h
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
BSL
2 days
Bonyth vs Doodle
Dewalt vs TerrOr
GSL
3 days
Cure vs herO
SHIN vs Maru
BSL
3 days
OyAji vs JDConan
DragOn vs TBD
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
GSL
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-05-12
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
KK 2v2 League Season 1
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W7
YSL S3
Escore Tournament S2: W8
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
WardiTV Spring 2026
2026 GSL S2
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026: Closed Qualifier
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.