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On September 29 2012 07:56 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 07:49 sam!zdat wrote:On September 29 2012 07:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On September 29 2012 07:31 sam!zdat wrote:On September 29 2012 07:30 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On September 29 2012 06:54 DoubleReed wrote:
Eh, for schools I think a major problem is our culture that absolutely disrespects teachers all the time. That stupid crap about "if you can't do, teach" and such is just idiotic and shameful. Teachers work damn hard and good teachers work really damn hard. And for some reason America has an incredibly dismissive attitude toward teachers. Of course we're going to have a terrible education system. IMO this is the biggest problem, and it's one of the reasons why I really get pissed at Chris Christie.
Religion is another problem. We have a huge anti-intellectual branch in the US, and that doesn't help our education. Especially as kids are now completely confused about evolution.
Another issue is that there is a ton of money flowing into private schools. It just makes a lot of wealthier communities not care about public education (and it's heavily tied to Religion in schools). Personally, I think it we should try banning private schools. That may raise some eyebrows, but it definitely worked for Norway. Think about it. I'm not sure how private schools are an issue. As far as I know they don't take money from public schools. They siphon off unconscionable amounts of bourgeois give-a-shit from public schools. (I say this as the product of the american private school system, an education for which my parents paid upwards of 20k per year) They siphon off 'give a shit?' That must be a technical term I am unfamiliar with. Do you seriously not catch my point? I was rather pleased with that turn of phrase. I'm teasing because I think you are off base. I don't see private schools as taking away from public ones.
I witnessed it first hand. I grew up in Dallas, where anybody who can afford it gets their kids the fuck out of the public school system, which is a mess. Because of this, nobody with any social or political clout puts much effort into schools, because their precious snowflake is in a private academy, and so the schools get worse and the problem loops around again.
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On September 29 2012 07:49 sam!zdat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 07:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On September 29 2012 07:31 sam!zdat wrote:On September 29 2012 07:30 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On September 29 2012 06:54 DoubleReed wrote:
Eh, for schools I think a major problem is our culture that absolutely disrespects teachers all the time. That stupid crap about "if you can't do, teach" and such is just idiotic and shameful. Teachers work damn hard and good teachers work really damn hard. And for some reason America has an incredibly dismissive attitude toward teachers. Of course we're going to have a terrible education system. IMO this is the biggest problem, and it's one of the reasons why I really get pissed at Chris Christie.
Religion is another problem. We have a huge anti-intellectual branch in the US, and that doesn't help our education. Especially as kids are now completely confused about evolution.
Another issue is that there is a ton of money flowing into private schools. It just makes a lot of wealthier communities not care about public education (and it's heavily tied to Religion in schools). Personally, I think it we should try banning private schools. That may raise some eyebrows, but it definitely worked for Norway. Think about it. I'm not sure how private schools are an issue. As far as I know they don't take money from public schools. They siphon off unconscionable amounts of bourgeois give-a-shit from public schools. (I say this as the product of the american private school system, an education for which my parents paid upwards of 20k per year) They siphon off 'give a shit?' That must be a technical term I am unfamiliar with. Do you seriously not catch my point? I was rather pleased with that turn of phrase. Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 07:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
If you want to make money then banker, if you want to be loved then teacher. Erm.. why don't we show them our love by giving them the only standard of value our society recognizes, viz. money? and of course bankers, whom we hate, get that value. very silly, american civilization, very silly edit: not to mention attracting more talented teachers. What if you're like every human being ever, and you want both love and money? Can't complain about bad teachers if you don't fucking pay them well. edit edit: I don't know why you are so blind on this point. When corporations want to have better employees than the other corporations, what do they do?? Your attitude is a sure recipe for terrible schools "if you want to be loved" my overeducated ass
Teachers are paid well.
To your other point: if a corporation wants to have better employees there are a lot of options on the table. Paying more is just one option and sometimes not an option at all. For example if you want better employees you can fire the bad ones - an option many schools don't have.
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On September 29 2012 07:26 sam!zdat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 07:15 dannystarcraft wrote:On September 29 2012 06:54 DoubleReed wrote:
Eh, for schools I think a major problem is our culture that absolutely disrespects teachers all the time. That stupid crap about "if you can't do, teach" and such is just idiotic and shameful. Teachers work damn hard and good teachers work really damn hard. And for some reason America has an incredibly dismissive attitude toward teachers. Of course we're going to have a terrible education system. IMO this is the biggest problem, and it's one of the reasons why I really get pissed at Chris Christie.
Religion is another problem. We have a huge anti-intellectual branch in the US, and that doesn't help our education. Especially as kids are now completely confused about evolution.
Another issue is that there is a ton of money flowing into private schools. It just makes a lot of wealthier communities not care about public education (and it's heavily tied to Religion in schools). Personally, I think it we should try banning private schools. That may raise some eyebrows, but it definitely worked for Norway. Think about it. I have to disagree with you on several points, but I do agree with you on some. I think the whole "If you can't do, teach" applies in many cases in college. The reason is because a lot of professors are so caught up in the nice little bubble that academia is, that they have no idea how to get things done in the real world (AKA a job outside of a university). In high school how does that even apply? The university is a critical part of the 'real world'... In fact, the things that are done in the university are far more 'real' than the things being done outside of it. This denigration of the academy is absurd.
No, the "real world" is where you work at a job and if your company is not able to turn a net profit, your company doesn't exist. The real world is where your results matter; there is no government funding to help keep you afloat. Do you know how many universities are in debt right now?
I could see some of the things done in the humanities and arts as important in academia, but in science, let's be honest, private industry is the pinnacle of innovation and efficiency.
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On September 29 2012 08:05 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 07:49 sam!zdat wrote:On September 29 2012 07:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On September 29 2012 07:31 sam!zdat wrote:On September 29 2012 07:30 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On September 29 2012 06:54 DoubleReed wrote:
Eh, for schools I think a major problem is our culture that absolutely disrespects teachers all the time. That stupid crap about "if you can't do, teach" and such is just idiotic and shameful. Teachers work damn hard and good teachers work really damn hard. And for some reason America has an incredibly dismissive attitude toward teachers. Of course we're going to have a terrible education system. IMO this is the biggest problem, and it's one of the reasons why I really get pissed at Chris Christie.
Religion is another problem. We have a huge anti-intellectual branch in the US, and that doesn't help our education. Especially as kids are now completely confused about evolution.
Another issue is that there is a ton of money flowing into private schools. It just makes a lot of wealthier communities not care about public education (and it's heavily tied to Religion in schools). Personally, I think it we should try banning private schools. That may raise some eyebrows, but it definitely worked for Norway. Think about it. I'm not sure how private schools are an issue. As far as I know they don't take money from public schools. They siphon off unconscionable amounts of bourgeois give-a-shit from public schools. (I say this as the product of the american private school system, an education for which my parents paid upwards of 20k per year) They siphon off 'give a shit?' That must be a technical term I am unfamiliar with. Do you seriously not catch my point? I was rather pleased with that turn of phrase. On September 29 2012 07:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
If you want to make money then banker, if you want to be loved then teacher. Erm.. why don't we show them our love by giving them the only standard of value our society recognizes, viz. money? and of course bankers, whom we hate, get that value. very silly, american civilization, very silly edit: not to mention attracting more talented teachers. What if you're like every human being ever, and you want both love and money? Can't complain about bad teachers if you don't fucking pay them well. edit edit: I don't know why you are so blind on this point. When corporations want to have better employees than the other corporations, what do they do?? Your attitude is a sure recipe for terrible schools "if you want to be loved" my overeducated ass Teachers are paid well.
There ARE weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
(edit: but yeah, flippancy aside, I don't think the fundamental problem with schools is teacher salaries, although I do think teachers are ludicrously underpaid relative to their social importance.)
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On September 29 2012 08:07 dannystarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 07:26 sam!zdat wrote:On September 29 2012 07:15 dannystarcraft wrote:On September 29 2012 06:54 DoubleReed wrote:
Eh, for schools I think a major problem is our culture that absolutely disrespects teachers all the time. That stupid crap about "if you can't do, teach" and such is just idiotic and shameful. Teachers work damn hard and good teachers work really damn hard. And for some reason America has an incredibly dismissive attitude toward teachers. Of course we're going to have a terrible education system. IMO this is the biggest problem, and it's one of the reasons why I really get pissed at Chris Christie.
Religion is another problem. We have a huge anti-intellectual branch in the US, and that doesn't help our education. Especially as kids are now completely confused about evolution.
Another issue is that there is a ton of money flowing into private schools. It just makes a lot of wealthier communities not care about public education (and it's heavily tied to Religion in schools). Personally, I think it we should try banning private schools. That may raise some eyebrows, but it definitely worked for Norway. Think about it. I have to disagree with you on several points, but I do agree with you on some. I think the whole "If you can't do, teach" applies in many cases in college. The reason is because a lot of professors are so caught up in the nice little bubble that academia is, that they have no idea how to get things done in the real world (AKA a job outside of a university). In high school how does that even apply? The university is a critical part of the 'real world'... In fact, the things that are done in the university are far more 'real' than the things being done outside of it. This denigration of the academy is absurd. No, the "real world" is where you work at a job and if your company is not able to turn a net profit, your company doesn't exist. The real world is where your results matter; there is no government funding to help keep you afloat. Do you know how many universities are in debt right now?
One of the 'real world' functions of the university is to challenge such small minded ideological conceptions of what the 'real world' is.
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On September 29 2012 08:08 sam!zdat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 08:07 dannystarcraft wrote:On September 29 2012 07:26 sam!zdat wrote:On September 29 2012 07:15 dannystarcraft wrote:On September 29 2012 06:54 DoubleReed wrote:
Eh, for schools I think a major problem is our culture that absolutely disrespects teachers all the time. That stupid crap about "if you can't do, teach" and such is just idiotic and shameful. Teachers work damn hard and good teachers work really damn hard. And for some reason America has an incredibly dismissive attitude toward teachers. Of course we're going to have a terrible education system. IMO this is the biggest problem, and it's one of the reasons why I really get pissed at Chris Christie.
Religion is another problem. We have a huge anti-intellectual branch in the US, and that doesn't help our education. Especially as kids are now completely confused about evolution.
Another issue is that there is a ton of money flowing into private schools. It just makes a lot of wealthier communities not care about public education (and it's heavily tied to Religion in schools). Personally, I think it we should try banning private schools. That may raise some eyebrows, but it definitely worked for Norway. Think about it. I have to disagree with you on several points, but I do agree with you on some. I think the whole "If you can't do, teach" applies in many cases in college. The reason is because a lot of professors are so caught up in the nice little bubble that academia is, that they have no idea how to get things done in the real world (AKA a job outside of a university). In high school how does that even apply? The university is a critical part of the 'real world'... In fact, the things that are done in the university are far more 'real' than the things being done outside of it. This denigration of the academy is absurd. No, the "real world" is where you work at a job and if your company is not able to turn a net profit, your company doesn't exist. The real world is where your results matter; there is no government funding to help keep you afloat. Do you know how many universities are in debt right now? One of the 'real world' functions of the university is to challenge such small minded ideological conceptions of what the 'real world' is.
Burn. Realizing that your argument is flawless, I changed my mind. ^^
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On September 29 2012 07:58 sam!zdat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 07:56 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On September 29 2012 07:49 sam!zdat wrote:On September 29 2012 07:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On September 29 2012 07:31 sam!zdat wrote:On September 29 2012 07:30 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On September 29 2012 06:54 DoubleReed wrote:
Eh, for schools I think a major problem is our culture that absolutely disrespects teachers all the time. That stupid crap about "if you can't do, teach" and such is just idiotic and shameful. Teachers work damn hard and good teachers work really damn hard. And for some reason America has an incredibly dismissive attitude toward teachers. Of course we're going to have a terrible education system. IMO this is the biggest problem, and it's one of the reasons why I really get pissed at Chris Christie.
Religion is another problem. We have a huge anti-intellectual branch in the US, and that doesn't help our education. Especially as kids are now completely confused about evolution.
Another issue is that there is a ton of money flowing into private schools. It just makes a lot of wealthier communities not care about public education (and it's heavily tied to Religion in schools). Personally, I think it we should try banning private schools. That may raise some eyebrows, but it definitely worked for Norway. Think about it. I'm not sure how private schools are an issue. As far as I know they don't take money from public schools. They siphon off unconscionable amounts of bourgeois give-a-shit from public schools. (I say this as the product of the american private school system, an education for which my parents paid upwards of 20k per year) They siphon off 'give a shit?' That must be a technical term I am unfamiliar with. Do you seriously not catch my point? I was rather pleased with that turn of phrase. I'm teasing because I think you are off base. I don't see private schools as taking away from public ones. I witnessed it first hand. I grew up in Dallas, where anybody who can afford it gets their kids the fuck out of the public school system, which is a mess. Because of this, nobody with any social or political clout puts much effort into schools, because their precious snowflake is in a private academy, and so the schools get worse and the problem loops around again.
There's both public and private schools where I live. One has not robbed the other.
Nor have the great private universities (Amherst College, Mt. Holyoke, Smith) taken away from the great public universities (UMass).
Perhaps the problems in Dallas run a bit deeper than the public / private school divide.
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On September 29 2012 08:10 dannystarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 08:08 sam!zdat wrote:On September 29 2012 08:07 dannystarcraft wrote:On September 29 2012 07:26 sam!zdat wrote:On September 29 2012 07:15 dannystarcraft wrote:On September 29 2012 06:54 DoubleReed wrote:
Eh, for schools I think a major problem is our culture that absolutely disrespects teachers all the time. That stupid crap about "if you can't do, teach" and such is just idiotic and shameful. Teachers work damn hard and good teachers work really damn hard. And for some reason America has an incredibly dismissive attitude toward teachers. Of course we're going to have a terrible education system. IMO this is the biggest problem, and it's one of the reasons why I really get pissed at Chris Christie.
Religion is another problem. We have a huge anti-intellectual branch in the US, and that doesn't help our education. Especially as kids are now completely confused about evolution.
Another issue is that there is a ton of money flowing into private schools. It just makes a lot of wealthier communities not care about public education (and it's heavily tied to Religion in schools). Personally, I think it we should try banning private schools. That may raise some eyebrows, but it definitely worked for Norway. Think about it. I have to disagree with you on several points, but I do agree with you on some. I think the whole "If you can't do, teach" applies in many cases in college. The reason is because a lot of professors are so caught up in the nice little bubble that academia is, that they have no idea how to get things done in the real world (AKA a job outside of a university). In high school how does that even apply? The university is a critical part of the 'real world'... In fact, the things that are done in the university are far more 'real' than the things being done outside of it. This denigration of the academy is absurd. No, the "real world" is where you work at a job and if your company is not able to turn a net profit, your company doesn't exist. The real world is where your results matter; there is no government funding to help keep you afloat. Do you know how many universities are in debt right now? One of the 'real world' functions of the university is to challenge such small minded ideological conceptions of what the 'real world' is. Burn. Realizing that your argument is flawless, I changed my mind. ^^
Go read Nicomachean Ethics and report back to me.
edit: better, go read _The Human Condition_ by Hannah Arendt and write me a paper on the good life.
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On September 29 2012 08:10 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 07:58 sam!zdat wrote:On September 29 2012 07:56 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On September 29 2012 07:49 sam!zdat wrote:On September 29 2012 07:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On September 29 2012 07:31 sam!zdat wrote:On September 29 2012 07:30 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On September 29 2012 06:54 DoubleReed wrote:
Eh, for schools I think a major problem is our culture that absolutely disrespects teachers all the time. That stupid crap about "if you can't do, teach" and such is just idiotic and shameful. Teachers work damn hard and good teachers work really damn hard. And for some reason America has an incredibly dismissive attitude toward teachers. Of course we're going to have a terrible education system. IMO this is the biggest problem, and it's one of the reasons why I really get pissed at Chris Christie.
Religion is another problem. We have a huge anti-intellectual branch in the US, and that doesn't help our education. Especially as kids are now completely confused about evolution.
Another issue is that there is a ton of money flowing into private schools. It just makes a lot of wealthier communities not care about public education (and it's heavily tied to Religion in schools). Personally, I think it we should try banning private schools. That may raise some eyebrows, but it definitely worked for Norway. Think about it. I'm not sure how private schools are an issue. As far as I know they don't take money from public schools. They siphon off unconscionable amounts of bourgeois give-a-shit from public schools. (I say this as the product of the american private school system, an education for which my parents paid upwards of 20k per year) They siphon off 'give a shit?' That must be a technical term I am unfamiliar with. Do you seriously not catch my point? I was rather pleased with that turn of phrase. I'm teasing because I think you are off base. I don't see private schools as taking away from public ones. I witnessed it first hand. I grew up in Dallas, where anybody who can afford it gets their kids the fuck out of the public school system, which is a mess. Because of this, nobody with any social or political clout puts much effort into schools, because their precious snowflake is in a private academy, and so the schools get worse and the problem loops around again. Perhaps the problems in Dallas run a bit deeper than the public / private school divide.
That's for sure. Dallas is a deeply racialized city. It's written into the very geography. Can't say enough bad things about Dallas.
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On September 29 2012 08:07 sam!zdat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 08:05 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On September 29 2012 07:49 sam!zdat wrote:On September 29 2012 07:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On September 29 2012 07:31 sam!zdat wrote:On September 29 2012 07:30 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On September 29 2012 06:54 DoubleReed wrote:
Eh, for schools I think a major problem is our culture that absolutely disrespects teachers all the time. That stupid crap about "if you can't do, teach" and such is just idiotic and shameful. Teachers work damn hard and good teachers work really damn hard. And for some reason America has an incredibly dismissive attitude toward teachers. Of course we're going to have a terrible education system. IMO this is the biggest problem, and it's one of the reasons why I really get pissed at Chris Christie.
Religion is another problem. We have a huge anti-intellectual branch in the US, and that doesn't help our education. Especially as kids are now completely confused about evolution.
Another issue is that there is a ton of money flowing into private schools. It just makes a lot of wealthier communities not care about public education (and it's heavily tied to Religion in schools). Personally, I think it we should try banning private schools. That may raise some eyebrows, but it definitely worked for Norway. Think about it. I'm not sure how private schools are an issue. As far as I know they don't take money from public schools. They siphon off unconscionable amounts of bourgeois give-a-shit from public schools. (I say this as the product of the american private school system, an education for which my parents paid upwards of 20k per year) They siphon off 'give a shit?' That must be a technical term I am unfamiliar with. Do you seriously not catch my point? I was rather pleased with that turn of phrase. On September 29 2012 07:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
If you want to make money then banker, if you want to be loved then teacher. Erm.. why don't we show them our love by giving them the only standard of value our society recognizes, viz. money? and of course bankers, whom we hate, get that value. very silly, american civilization, very silly edit: not to mention attracting more talented teachers. What if you're like every human being ever, and you want both love and money? Can't complain about bad teachers if you don't fucking pay them well. edit edit: I don't know why you are so blind on this point. When corporations want to have better employees than the other corporations, what do they do?? Your attitude is a sure recipe for terrible schools "if you want to be loved" my overeducated ass Teachers are paid well. There ARE weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. (edit: but yeah, flippancy aside, I don't think the fundamental problem with schools is teacher salaries, although I do think teachers are ludicrously underpaid relative to their social importance.)
From Salary.com
HS teacher median compensation: $78,929
Accountant I median compensation: $65,946
I think they're doing OK...
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
On September 29 2012 08:07 dannystarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 07:26 sam!zdat wrote:On September 29 2012 07:15 dannystarcraft wrote:On September 29 2012 06:54 DoubleReed wrote:
Eh, for schools I think a major problem is our culture that absolutely disrespects teachers all the time. That stupid crap about "if you can't do, teach" and such is just idiotic and shameful. Teachers work damn hard and good teachers work really damn hard. And for some reason America has an incredibly dismissive attitude toward teachers. Of course we're going to have a terrible education system. IMO this is the biggest problem, and it's one of the reasons why I really get pissed at Chris Christie.
Religion is another problem. We have a huge anti-intellectual branch in the US, and that doesn't help our education. Especially as kids are now completely confused about evolution.
Another issue is that the flowing into private schools. It just makes a lot of wealthier communities not care about public education (and it's heavily tied to Religion in schools). Personally, I think it we should try banning private schools. That may raise some eyebrows, but it definitely worked for Norway. Think about it. I have to disagree with you on several points, but I do agree with you on some. I think the whole "If you can't do, teach" applies in many cases in college. The reason is because a lot of professors are so caught up in the nice little bubble that academia is, that they have no idea how to get things done in the real world (AKA a job outside of a university). In high school how does that even apply? The university is a critical part of the 'real world'... In fact, the things that are done in the university are far more 'real' than the things being done outside of it. This denigration of the academy is absurd. No, the "real world" is where you work at a job and if your company is not able to turn a net profit, your company doesn't exist. The real world is where your results matter; there is no government funding to help keep you afloat. Do you know how many universities are in debt right now? I could see some of the things done in the humanities and arts as important in academia, but in science, let's be honest, private industry is the pinnacle of innovation and efficiency.
wot.
Actually, it's when government, universities and the private industry come together that the pinnacle of innovation is achieved.
For example, where I live (San Diego), our local government is working alongside my university, UCSD, and Qualcomm Inc. and other companies in human genome research of which we've become the center of. Let's not even list the numerous projects that private companies hire our university and other universities to embark on. We're all in this together, folks.
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On September 29 2012 08:10 sam!zdat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 08:10 dannystarcraft wrote:On September 29 2012 08:08 sam!zdat wrote:On September 29 2012 08:07 dannystarcraft wrote:On September 29 2012 07:26 sam!zdat wrote:On September 29 2012 07:15 dannystarcraft wrote:On September 29 2012 06:54 DoubleReed wrote:
Eh, for schools I think a major problem is our culture that absolutely disrespects teachers all the time. That stupid crap about "if you can't do, teach" and such is just idiotic and shameful. Teachers work damn hard and good teachers work really damn hard. And for some reason America has an incredibly dismissive attitude toward teachers. Of course we're going to have a terrible education system. IMO this is the biggest problem, and it's one of the reasons why I really get pissed at Chris Christie.
Religion is another problem. We have a huge anti-intellectual branch in the US, and that doesn't help our education. Especially as kids are now completely confused about evolution.
Another issue is that there is a ton of money flowing into private schools. It just makes a lot of wealthier communities not care about public education (and it's heavily tied to Religion in schools). Personally, I think it we should try banning private schools. That may raise some eyebrows, but it definitely worked for Norway. Think about it. I have to disagree with you on several points, but I do agree with you on some. I think the whole "If you can't do, teach" applies in many cases in college. The reason is because a lot of professors are so caught up in the nice little bubble that academia is, that they have no idea how to get things done in the real world (AKA a job outside of a university). In high school how does that even apply? The university is a critical part of the 'real world'... In fact, the things that are done in the university are far more 'real' than the things being done outside of it. This denigration of the academy is absurd. No, the "real world" is where you work at a job and if your company is not able to turn a net profit, your company doesn't exist. The real world is where your results matter; there is no government funding to help keep you afloat. Do you know how many universities are in debt right now? One of the 'real world' functions of the university is to challenge such small minded ideological conceptions of what the 'real world' is. Burn. Realizing that your argument is flawless, I changed my mind. ^^ Go read Nicomachean Ethics and report back to me. edit: better, go read _The Human Condition_ by Hannah Arendt and write me a paper on the good life.
Man, you are over-educated 
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On September 29 2012 08:10 sam!zdat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 08:10 dannystarcraft wrote:On September 29 2012 08:08 sam!zdat wrote:On September 29 2012 08:07 dannystarcraft wrote:On September 29 2012 07:26 sam!zdat wrote:On September 29 2012 07:15 dannystarcraft wrote:On September 29 2012 06:54 DoubleReed wrote:
Eh, for schools I think a major problem is our culture that absolutely disrespects teachers all the time. That stupid crap about "if you can't do, teach" and such is just idiotic and shameful. Teachers work damn hard and good teachers work really damn hard. And for some reason America has an incredibly dismissive attitude toward teachers. Of course we're going to have a terrible education system. IMO this is the biggest problem, and it's one of the reasons why I really get pissed at Chris Christie.
Religion is another problem. We have a huge anti-intellectual branch in the US, and that doesn't help our education. Especially as kids are now completely confused about evolution.
Another issue is that there is a ton of money flowing into private schools. It just makes a lot of wealthier communities not care about public education (and it's heavily tied to Religion in schools). Personally, I think it we should try banning private schools. That may raise some eyebrows, but it definitely worked for Norway. Think about it. I have to disagree with you on several points, but I do agree with you on some. I think the whole "If you can't do, teach" applies in many cases in college. The reason is because a lot of professors are so caught up in the nice little bubble that academia is, that they have no idea how to get things done in the real world (AKA a job outside of a university). In high school how does that even apply? The university is a critical part of the 'real world'... In fact, the things that are done in the university are far more 'real' than the things being done outside of it. This denigration of the academy is absurd. No, the "real world" is where you work at a job and if your company is not able to turn a net profit, your company doesn't exist. The real world is where your results matter; there is no government funding to help keep you afloat. Do you know how many universities are in debt right now? One of the 'real world' functions of the university is to challenge such small minded ideological conceptions of what the 'real world' is. Burn. Realizing that your argument is flawless, I changed my mind. ^^ Go read Nicomachean Ethics and report back to me.
Ignorance is bliss. I have a more important 'real world' function to preform.
Honestly though, this thread is about the election coming up. I have to say that I doubt either candidate will do anything to improve education in the slightest (besides making it easier for loans to be handed out -- not helping the problem imo).
On September 29 2012 08:15 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 08:10 sam!zdat wrote:On September 29 2012 08:10 dannystarcraft wrote:On September 29 2012 08:08 sam!zdat wrote:On September 29 2012 08:07 dannystarcraft wrote:On September 29 2012 07:26 sam!zdat wrote:On September 29 2012 07:15 dannystarcraft wrote:On September 29 2012 06:54 DoubleReed wrote:
Eh, for schools I think a major problem is our culture that absolutely disrespects teachers all the time. That stupid crap about "if you can't do, teach" and such is just idiotic and shameful. Teachers work damn hard and good teachers work really damn hard. And for some reason America has an incredibly dismissive attitude toward teachers. Of course we're going to have a terrible education system. IMO this is the biggest problem, and it's one of the reasons why I really get pissed at Chris Christie.
Religion is another problem. We have a huge anti-intellectual branch in the US, and that doesn't help our education. Especially as kids are now completely confused about evolution.
Another issue is that there is a ton of money flowing into private schools. It just makes a lot of wealthier communities not care about public education (and it's heavily tied to Religion in schools). Personally, I think it we should try banning private schools. That may raise some eyebrows, but it definitely worked for Norway. Think about it. I have to disagree with you on several points, but I do agree with you on some. I think the whole "If you can't do, teach" applies in many cases in college. The reason is because a lot of professors are so caught up in the nice little bubble that academia is, that they have no idea how to get things done in the real world (AKA a job outside of a university). In high school how does that even apply? The university is a critical part of the 'real world'... In fact, the things that are done in the university are far more 'real' than the things being done outside of it. This denigration of the academy is absurd. No, the "real world" is where you work at a job and if your company is not able to turn a net profit, your company doesn't exist. The real world is where your results matter; there is no government funding to help keep you afloat. Do you know how many universities are in debt right now? One of the 'real world' functions of the university is to challenge such small minded ideological conceptions of what the 'real world' is. Burn. Realizing that your argument is flawless, I changed my mind. ^^ Go read Nicomachean Ethics and report back to me. edit: better, go read _The Human Condition_ by Hannah Arendt and write me a paper on the good life. Man, you are over-educated
Product of the private school system bro!
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
i think 2nd term obama will be rather different from 1st term obama.
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On September 29 2012 08:05 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 07:49 sam!zdat wrote:On September 29 2012 07:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On September 29 2012 07:31 sam!zdat wrote:On September 29 2012 07:30 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On September 29 2012 06:54 DoubleReed wrote:
Eh, for schools I think a major problem is our culture that absolutely disrespects teachers all the time. That stupid crap about "if you can't do, teach" and such is just idiotic and shameful. Teachers work damn hard and good teachers work really damn hard. And for some reason America has an incredibly dismissive attitude toward teachers. Of course we're going to have a terrible education system. IMO this is the biggest problem, and it's one of the reasons why I really get pissed at Chris Christie.
Religion is another problem. We have a huge anti-intellectual branch in the US, and that doesn't help our education. Especially as kids are now completely confused about evolution.
Another issue is that there is a ton of money flowing into private schools. It just makes a lot of wealthier communities not care about public education (and it's heavily tied to Religion in schools). Personally, I think it we should try banning private schools. That may raise some eyebrows, but it definitely worked for Norway. Think about it. I'm not sure how private schools are an issue. As far as I know they don't take money from public schools. They siphon off unconscionable amounts of bourgeois give-a-shit from public schools. (I say this as the product of the american private school system, an education for which my parents paid upwards of 20k per year) They siphon off 'give a shit?' That must be a technical term I am unfamiliar with. Do you seriously not catch my point? I was rather pleased with that turn of phrase. On September 29 2012 07:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
If you want to make money then banker, if you want to be loved then teacher. Erm.. why don't we show them our love by giving them the only standard of value our society recognizes, viz. money? and of course bankers, whom we hate, get that value. very silly, american civilization, very silly edit: not to mention attracting more talented teachers. What if you're like every human being ever, and you want both love and money? Can't complain about bad teachers if you don't fucking pay them well. edit edit: I don't know why you are so blind on this point. When corporations want to have better employees than the other corporations, what do they do?? Your attitude is a sure recipe for terrible schools "if you want to be loved" my overeducated ass Teachers are paid well.
[/QUOTE]
http://newworldodor.wordpress.com/2011/03/19/teacher-v-private-sector-pay-dont-buy-the-lie/
http://neatoday.org/2012/02/06/when-the-media-asks-are-teachers-overpaid-educators-ask-are-they-crazy/
Oh, look at that, a few minutes of looking on google. A lot of people, including teachers, who are fairly likely to know how much they earn, how much they are educated and how much they work, disagree with you.
Teachers are not well paid, for the amount of education they have to have for the job. I could get paid more as a private sector worker with better prospects and less education.
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On September 29 2012 08:15 Souma wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 08:07 dannystarcraft wrote:On September 29 2012 07:26 sam!zdat wrote:On September 29 2012 07:15 dannystarcraft wrote:On September 29 2012 06:54 DoubleReed wrote:
Eh, for schools I think a major problem is our culture that absolutely disrespects teachers all the time. That stupid crap about "if you can't do, teach" and such is just idiotic and shameful. Teachers work damn hard and good teachers work really damn hard. And for some reason America has an incredibly dismissive attitude toward teachers. Of course we're going to have a terrible education system. IMO this is the biggest problem, and it's one of the reasons why I really get pissed at Chris Christie.
Religion is another problem. We have a huge anti-intellectual branch in the US, and that doesn't help our education. Especially as kids are now completely confused about evolution.
Another issue is that the flowing into private schools. It just makes a lot of wealthier communities not care about public education (and it's heavily tied to Religion in schools). Personally, I think it we should try banning private schools. That may raise some eyebrows, but it definitely worked for Norway. Think about it. I have to disagree with you on several points, but I do agree with you on some. I think the whole "If you can't do, teach" applies in many cases in college. The reason is because a lot of professors are so caught up in the nice little bubble that academia is, that they have no idea how to get things done in the real world (AKA a job outside of a university). In high school how does that even apply? The university is a critical part of the 'real world'... In fact, the things that are done in the university are far more 'real' than the things being done outside of it. This denigration of the academy is absurd. No, the "real world" is where you work at a job and if your company is not able to turn a net profit, your company doesn't exist. The real world is where your results matter; there is no government funding to help keep you afloat. Do you know how many universities are in debt right now? I could see some of the things done in the humanities and arts as important in academia, but in science, let's be honest, private industry is the pinnacle of innovation and efficiency. wot. Actually, it's when government, universities and the private industry come together that the pinnacle of innovation is achieved. For example, where I live (San Diego), our local government is working alongside my university, UCSD, and Qualcomm Inc. and other companies in human genome research of which we've become the center of. Let's not even list the numerous projects that private companies hire our university and other universities to embark on. We're all in this together, folks.
No, I agree with you completely there is a tremendous amount of knowledge that is gained from working together from all ends of the spectrum, but I don't think anyone matches the efficiency of private industry at innovating. Like I would say that industry has a higher innovation per cost ratio... or something like that.
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On September 29 2012 08:15 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 08:10 sam!zdat wrote:On September 29 2012 08:10 dannystarcraft wrote:On September 29 2012 08:08 sam!zdat wrote:On September 29 2012 08:07 dannystarcraft wrote:On September 29 2012 07:26 sam!zdat wrote:On September 29 2012 07:15 dannystarcraft wrote:On September 29 2012 06:54 DoubleReed wrote:
Eh, for schools I think a major problem is our culture that absolutely disrespects teachers all the time. That stupid crap about "if you can't do, teach" and such is just idiotic and shameful. Teachers work damn hard and good teachers work really damn hard. And for some reason America has an incredibly dismissive attitude toward teachers. Of course we're going to have a terrible education system. IMO this is the biggest problem, and it's one of the reasons why I really get pissed at Chris Christie.
Religion is another problem. We have a huge anti-intellectual branch in the US, and that doesn't help our education. Especially as kids are now completely confused about evolution.
Another issue is that there is a ton of money flowing into private schools. It just makes a lot of wealthier communities not care about public education (and it's heavily tied to Religion in schools). Personally, I think it we should try banning private schools. That may raise some eyebrows, but it definitely worked for Norway. Think about it. I have to disagree with you on several points, but I do agree with you on some. I think the whole "If you can't do, teach" applies in many cases in college. The reason is because a lot of professors are so caught up in the nice little bubble that academia is, that they have no idea how to get things done in the real world (AKA a job outside of a university). In high school how does that even apply? The university is a critical part of the 'real world'... In fact, the things that are done in the university are far more 'real' than the things being done outside of it. This denigration of the academy is absurd. No, the "real world" is where you work at a job and if your company is not able to turn a net profit, your company doesn't exist. The real world is where your results matter; there is no government funding to help keep you afloat. Do you know how many universities are in debt right now? One of the 'real world' functions of the university is to challenge such small minded ideological conceptions of what the 'real world' is. Burn. Realizing that your argument is flawless, I changed my mind. ^^ Go read Nicomachean Ethics and report back to me. edit: better, go read _The Human Condition_ by Hannah Arendt and write me a paper on the good life. Man, you are over-educated
By American standards, I guess. I barely know anything. That's a book that everybody should have read. That fact that it makes me seem overeducated is embarrassing for our civilization.
also:
"In 2005 graduates with a Master's in Business Administration (MBA) who accepted job offers were expected to earn a base salary of $88,626. They were also expected to receive an "average signing bonus of $17,428." from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States
Since any blockhead with a pulse can get an MBA, why would anyone with half a brain want to be a teacher?
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On September 29 2012 08:21 dannystarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 08:15 Souma wrote:On September 29 2012 08:07 dannystarcraft wrote:On September 29 2012 07:26 sam!zdat wrote:On September 29 2012 07:15 dannystarcraft wrote:On September 29 2012 06:54 DoubleReed wrote:
Eh, for schools I think a major problem is our culture that absolutely disrespects teachers all the time. That stupid crap about "if you can't do, teach" and such is just idiotic and shameful. Teachers work damn hard and good teachers work really damn hard. And for some reason America has an incredibly dismissive attitude toward teachers. Of course we're going to have a terrible education system. IMO this is the biggest problem, and it's one of the reasons why I really get pissed at Chris Christie.
Religion is another problem. We have a huge anti-intellectual branch in the US, and that doesn't help our education. Especially as kids are now completely confused about evolution.
Another issue is that the flowing into private schools. It just makes a lot of wealthier communities not care about public education (and it's heavily tied to Religion in schools). Personally, I think it we should try banning private schools. That may raise some eyebrows, but it definitely worked for Norway. Think about it. I have to disagree with you on several points, but I do agree with you on some. I think the whole "If you can't do, teach" applies in many cases in college. The reason is because a lot of professors are so caught up in the nice little bubble that academia is, that they have no idea how to get things done in the real world (AKA a job outside of a university). In high school how does that even apply? The university is a critical part of the 'real world'... In fact, the things that are done in the university are far more 'real' than the things being done outside of it. This denigration of the academy is absurd. No, the "real world" is where you work at a job and if your company is not able to turn a net profit, your company doesn't exist. The real world is where your results matter; there is no government funding to help keep you afloat. Do you know how many universities are in debt right now? I could see some of the things done in the humanities and arts as important in academia, but in science, let's be honest, private industry is the pinnacle of innovation and efficiency. wot. Actually, it's when government, universities and the private industry come together that the pinnacle of innovation is achieved. For example, where I live (San Diego), our local government is working alongside my university, UCSD, and Qualcomm Inc. and other companies in human genome research of which we've become the center of. Let's not even list the numerous projects that private companies hire our university and other universities to embark on. We're all in this together, folks. No, I agree with you completely there is a tremendous amount of knowledge that is gained from working together from all ends of the spectrum, but I don't think anyone matches the efficiency of private industry at innovating. Like I would say that industry has a higher innovation per cost ratio... or something like that.
wtf is your unit of 'innovation'
(how I have grown to loathe that word)
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On September 29 2012 08:21 sam!zdat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 08:15 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On September 29 2012 08:10 sam!zdat wrote:On September 29 2012 08:10 dannystarcraft wrote:On September 29 2012 08:08 sam!zdat wrote:On September 29 2012 08:07 dannystarcraft wrote:On September 29 2012 07:26 sam!zdat wrote:On September 29 2012 07:15 dannystarcraft wrote:On September 29 2012 06:54 DoubleReed wrote:
Eh, for schools I think a major problem is our culture that absolutely disrespects teachers all the time. That stupid crap about "if you can't do, teach" and such is just idiotic and shameful. Teachers work damn hard and good teachers work really damn hard. And for some reason America has an incredibly dismissive attitude toward teachers. Of course we're going to have a terrible education system. IMO this is the biggest problem, and it's one of the reasons why I really get pissed at Chris Christie.
Religion is another problem. We have a huge anti-intellectual branch in the US, and that doesn't help our education. Especially as kids are now completely confused about evolution.
Another issue is that there is a ton of money flowing into private schools. It just makes a lot of wealthier communities not care about public education (and it's heavily tied to Religion in schools). Personally, I think it we should try banning private schools. That may raise some eyebrows, but it definitely worked for Norway. Think about it. I have to disagree with you on several points, but I do agree with you on some. I think the whole "If you can't do, teach" applies in many cases in college. The reason is because a lot of professors are so caught up in the nice little bubble that academia is, that they have no idea how to get things done in the real world (AKA a job outside of a university). In high school how does that even apply? The university is a critical part of the 'real world'... In fact, the things that are done in the university are far more 'real' than the things being done outside of it. This denigration of the academy is absurd. No, the "real world" is where you work at a job and if your company is not able to turn a net profit, your company doesn't exist. The real world is where your results matter; there is no government funding to help keep you afloat. Do you know how many universities are in debt right now? One of the 'real world' functions of the university is to challenge such small minded ideological conceptions of what the 'real world' is. Burn. Realizing that your argument is flawless, I changed my mind. ^^ Go read Nicomachean Ethics and report back to me. edit: better, go read _The Human Condition_ by Hannah Arendt and write me a paper on the good life. Man, you are over-educated By American standards, I guess. I barely know anything. That's a book that everybody should have read. That fact that it makes me seem overeducated is embarrassing for our civilization. also: "In 2005 graduates with a Master's in Business Administration (MBA) who accepted job offers were expected to earn a base salary of $88,626. They were also expected to receive an "average signing bonus of $17,428." from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_StatesSince any blockhead with a pulse can get an MBA, why would anyone with half a brain want to be a teacher?
Moral reasons. My best teachers in school were the ones who could do far better elsewhere, but instead chose to take on the task of educating the next generation. Pretty good reason if you ask me, and I think it tells a lot about their character too.
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On September 29 2012 08:14 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 08:07 sam!zdat wrote:On September 29 2012 08:05 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On September 29 2012 07:49 sam!zdat wrote:On September 29 2012 07:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On September 29 2012 07:31 sam!zdat wrote:On September 29 2012 07:30 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On September 29 2012 06:54 DoubleReed wrote:
Eh, for schools I think a major problem is our culture that absolutely disrespects teachers all the time. That stupid crap about "if you can't do, teach" and such is just idiotic and shameful. Teachers work damn hard and good teachers work really damn hard. And for some reason America has an incredibly dismissive attitude toward teachers. Of course we're going to have a terrible education system. IMO this is the biggest problem, and it's one of the reasons why I really get pissed at Chris Christie.
Religion is another problem. We have a huge anti-intellectual branch in the US, and that doesn't help our education. Especially as kids are now completely confused about evolution.
Another issue is that there is a ton of money flowing into private schools. It just makes a lot of wealthier communities not care about public education (and it's heavily tied to Religion in schools). Personally, I think it we should try banning private schools. That may raise some eyebrows, but it definitely worked for Norway. Think about it. I'm not sure how private schools are an issue. As far as I know they don't take money from public schools. They siphon off unconscionable amounts of bourgeois give-a-shit from public schools. (I say this as the product of the american private school system, an education for which my parents paid upwards of 20k per year) They siphon off 'give a shit?' That must be a technical term I am unfamiliar with. Do you seriously not catch my point? I was rather pleased with that turn of phrase. On September 29 2012 07:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
If you want to make money then banker, if you want to be loved then teacher. Erm.. why don't we show them our love by giving them the only standard of value our society recognizes, viz. money? and of course bankers, whom we hate, get that value. very silly, american civilization, very silly edit: not to mention attracting more talented teachers. What if you're like every human being ever, and you want both love and money? Can't complain about bad teachers if you don't fucking pay them well. edit edit: I don't know why you are so blind on this point. When corporations want to have better employees than the other corporations, what do they do?? Your attitude is a sure recipe for terrible schools "if you want to be loved" my overeducated ass Teachers are paid well. There ARE weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. (edit: but yeah, flippancy aside, I don't think the fundamental problem with schools is teacher salaries, although I do think teachers are ludicrously underpaid relative to their social importance.) From Salary.com HS teacher median compensation: $78,929 Accountant I median compensation: $65,946 I think they're doing OK...
Er... I went to salary.com and got $54,580?
http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/high-school-teacher-Salary-Details.aspx
As far as private schools, I was saying that it can essentially make wealthier families absolutely not care about supporting public education. It's more about community involvement than money.
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EPT
