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On September 22 2012 10:02 SayGen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 10:01 KwarK wrote:
SayGen, you are not middle class, you are working class. There's a difference. Not in America. Middle is working. Rich don't work, or they are at the TOP of their career fields middle class do everything poor do nothing Americans don't have a working class.
I honestly can't tell if you actually believe this, or if you are trolling.
If we all of a sudden lost all the poor to death(cause you say they that's how they can help), our society would stop working as is.
Can you please define what/who you consider to be poor, cause if it's just people making under 20,000 like I think it is, I hate to tell you and crush your fantasy world where these people are leeches on society and our draining our precious resources, but these people aren't actually as useless as you might think.
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I can't believe I'm stuck refreshing this thread, wondering with morbid fascination what "certain people" will come up with next. If I had an ounce of sense I'd be running away screaming.
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On September 22 2012 10:00 sam!zdat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 09:59 SayGen wrote:On September 22 2012 09:51 TotalBalanceSC2 wrote:On September 22 2012 09:33 SayGen wrote:On September 22 2012 09:26 TotalBalanceSC2 wrote:On September 22 2012 09:20 SayGen wrote:On September 22 2012 09:17 KwarK wrote:On September 22 2012 09:15 SayGen wrote:On September 22 2012 09:15 KwarK wrote:On September 22 2012 09:04 farvacola wrote:
[quote]
Ladies and gentleman, we've found ourselves a believer in the 9-9-9 tax. My goodness, I thought they didn't really exist. How could anything be fairer than a flat tax rate taking the same proportion from those most able to pay as those least able to pay? Is that sarcasm or do you actually agree with me on something? Of course it's sarcasm. The proportion of people who can't see the obvious problems with the 9-9-9 plan is actually lower than the proportion of people in society who are actually legitimately retarded. I don't see how it's not fair... The rich pay the most, the poor pay the least- the middle is the middle. The only other plan that I think could be more fair is the removal of all taxes with a massive increase on sales tax. This way you are only taxed on what you buy. Rich people buy alot of junk they pay the most. Poor people buy the least expensive things and would pay the least. I thought the UK was pro flat tax.... I am afraid your sales tax idea is a little backwards. As a % of income the rich spend less than the poor who have to spend most of their money just to buy the basic things like food and gas. This would essentially make it even harder for the poor to get by and the rich would still be fine if not even better off. We don't have sales tax on life essencial goods- least in my state http://revenue.ky.gov/NR/rdonlyres/332F2097-1179-4EBC-989F-C5074B482593/0/sufacts_v6n2.pdfNow gas isn't needed, because cars arn't needed. Maybe it's different for others, but a poor person could still get by without ever paying a single tax dollar. But name one rich dude who doens't own a nice car/home/boat all are taxable. Meh my uncle is easily top 0.5% and he drives a cheap old 2002 volkswagon, lives in a house that is smaller than mine and doesn't like boats. So there is one person for you. Anecdotes aside, Very high sales tax would make it much harder for low income families to make purchases which would be bad for the economy as well as make life unnecessarilly harder for them. I would also argue that for most people who want to make a decent living a commute to work is probably likely, therefore gasoline is needed. And the Stalin rant you are going on almost makes it sound like you would not mind the poor dying on the street provided the rich do not have to pay higher taxes. I was thinking really hard of a way that the poor contribute to a society and that was all I could think up. Who do you think works all the shitty jobs that your bourgeois ass can't be bothered to take?
I do my own dirty jobs.
I've scrubbed floors, emptied trash, lubed jets, delt with hazzardous chemicals, cleaned toilets, painted walls, stocked shelves, paper pushed.
Even now as a Military member I do dirty jobs- just today I ran an obsticle course through low crawling through a pig field, training. If you can low crawl through a pig field and not puke you can do anything. I was reaking and hadto take several showers afterward.
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On September 22 2012 10:02 SayGen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 10:01 KwarK wrote:
SayGen, you are not middle class, you are working class. There's a difference. Not in America. Middle is working. Rich don't work, or they are at the TOP of their career fields middle class do everything poor do nothing Americans don't have a working class.
Taken from wikipedia: "In Weberian socio-economic terms, the middle class is the broad group of people in contemporary society who fall socio-economically between the working class and upper class."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_class
And much of the working class in the USA current struggles to put bread on the table. If they were to sustain an injury and require medical attention, that would be it. Don't you think it's better to have a preventative system of "hand up" speaking to relevant social problems and limitations, rather than allowing someone to plummet into financial ruin over a broken bone, then "helping" him rebuild his life from square one?
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No they aren't! The poor are the people with an income of a low amount. That's all, nothing more, nothing less. Yes, some people are lazy and don't have jobs, and have someone to sponge off. But a poor person is simply someone who has a low paying job, or no job at all. And please don't insult us by saying something like 'if they have no job then they are lazy' - what about the handicapped, the recently unemployed, long-term unemployed who find it increasingly difficult to get a new job, those with little education, those living in areas of depressed economy, the sick? You can be poor, very quickly, through no fault of your own - would that be laziness? Hell, falling ill in the US can make you poor, if your HMo doesn't cover it, or you're not full time and can't afford health insurance, or your health insurance refuses to cover you because you are too expensive for them, or have a pre-existing condition (which includes things like a woman having a caesarian, for some reason, or being born with a heart murmur or asthma).
The middle class, historically, was the merchants and, to some extent, the minor priesthood. It was a smaller section than the unwashed masses which made up the poor, but still larger than those at the very top, the lords and barons and kings. More recently, it has expanded to the general populace, meaning those with degrees, those who find themselves earning over a certain amount a year, those who were lucky enough to be born into it. Now, in this economy of not being guaranteed a job, or having reduced hours/pay, you find a lot more people slipping from the middle class into the poor - are these the lazy people? I recently managed to get a job. In this job, there are ten people who work in my business, 2 of which are full-time, the rest are part time. Most of us are stuck on a few days work a week, and if they need people to work more they will hire another part-timer because, quite simply, part-timers can be paid less and get no benefits, thus cost the company less.
I would be considered poor, though I would also consider myself middle-class - I have had good work in the past and have a degree. I worked hard for what I have achieved in my life, and I am proud of what I have done, and I know eventually, sooner or later, I will have a full-time job that pays decently, though I will probably have to go back to school to get this. This is a handup, to use your made-up term, yet I am still poor - I work a few days a week, I volunteer at various charities and have worked for months for some businesses for free simply to try and get a foot in the door of the job market. Am I lazy or am I middle class? According to you I can't be both.
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On September 22 2012 10:05 BlueBird. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 10:02 SayGen wrote:On September 22 2012 10:01 KwarK wrote:
SayGen, you are not middle class, you are working class. There's a difference. Not in America. Middle is working. Rich don't work, or they are at the TOP of their career fields middle class do everything poor do nothing Americans don't have a working class. I honestly can't tell if you actually believe this, or if you are trolling. If we all of a sudden lost all the poor to death(cause you say they that's how they can help), our society would stop working as is. Can you please define what/who you consider to be poor, cause if it's just people making under 20,000 like I think it is, I hate to tell you and crush your fantasy world where these people are leeches on society and our draining our precious resources, but these people aren't actually as useless as you might think.
I told you, people who refuse to work, or can't hold a job.
People who take and never give.
(again I [and most Americans] excuse the elderly, cripple, sick)
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On September 22 2012 10:06 SayGen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 10:00 sam!zdat wrote:On September 22 2012 09:59 SayGen wrote:On September 22 2012 09:51 TotalBalanceSC2 wrote:On September 22 2012 09:33 SayGen wrote:On September 22 2012 09:26 TotalBalanceSC2 wrote:On September 22 2012 09:20 SayGen wrote:On September 22 2012 09:17 KwarK wrote:On September 22 2012 09:15 SayGen wrote:On September 22 2012 09:15 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
How could anything be fairer than a flat tax rate taking the same proportion from those most able to pay as those least able to pay? Is that sarcasm or do you actually agree with me on something? Of course it's sarcasm. The proportion of people who can't see the obvious problems with the 9-9-9 plan is actually lower than the proportion of people in society who are actually legitimately retarded. I don't see how it's not fair... The rich pay the most, the poor pay the least- the middle is the middle. The only other plan that I think could be more fair is the removal of all taxes with a massive increase on sales tax. This way you are only taxed on what you buy. Rich people buy alot of junk they pay the most. Poor people buy the least expensive things and would pay the least. I thought the UK was pro flat tax.... I am afraid your sales tax idea is a little backwards. As a % of income the rich spend less than the poor who have to spend most of their money just to buy the basic things like food and gas. This would essentially make it even harder for the poor to get by and the rich would still be fine if not even better off. We don't have sales tax on life essencial goods- least in my state http://revenue.ky.gov/NR/rdonlyres/332F2097-1179-4EBC-989F-C5074B482593/0/sufacts_v6n2.pdfNow gas isn't needed, because cars arn't needed. Maybe it's different for others, but a poor person could still get by without ever paying a single tax dollar. But name one rich dude who doens't own a nice car/home/boat all are taxable. Meh my uncle is easily top 0.5% and he drives a cheap old 2002 volkswagon, lives in a house that is smaller than mine and doesn't like boats. So there is one person for you. Anecdotes aside, Very high sales tax would make it much harder for low income families to make purchases which would be bad for the economy as well as make life unnecessarilly harder for them. I would also argue that for most people who want to make a decent living a commute to work is probably likely, therefore gasoline is needed. And the Stalin rant you are going on almost makes it sound like you would not mind the poor dying on the street provided the rich do not have to pay higher taxes. I was thinking really hard of a way that the poor contribute to a society and that was all I could think up. Who do you think works all the shitty jobs that your bourgeois ass can't be bothered to take? I do my own dirty jobs. I've scrubbed floors, emptied trash, lubed jets, delt with hazzardous chemicals, cleaned toilets, painted walls, stocked shelves, paper pushed. Even now as a Military member I do dirty jobs- just today I ran an obsticle course through low crawling through a pig field, training. If you can low crawl through a pig field and not puke you can do anything. I was reaking and hadto take several showers afterward.
Ok, so you're a self-hating proletarian. Ideology has sure done its job on you.
Here's an educational handout for you:
"hazardous" "obstacle" "reeking"
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On September 22 2012 10:08 sam!zdat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 10:06 SayGen wrote:On September 22 2012 10:00 sam!zdat wrote:On September 22 2012 09:59 SayGen wrote:On September 22 2012 09:51 TotalBalanceSC2 wrote:On September 22 2012 09:33 SayGen wrote:On September 22 2012 09:26 TotalBalanceSC2 wrote:On September 22 2012 09:20 SayGen wrote:On September 22 2012 09:17 KwarK wrote:On September 22 2012 09:15 SayGen wrote:
[quote]
Is that sarcasm or do you actually agree with me on something? Of course it's sarcasm. The proportion of people who can't see the obvious problems with the 9-9-9 plan is actually lower than the proportion of people in society who are actually legitimately retarded. I don't see how it's not fair... The rich pay the most, the poor pay the least- the middle is the middle. The only other plan that I think could be more fair is the removal of all taxes with a massive increase on sales tax. This way you are only taxed on what you buy. Rich people buy alot of junk they pay the most. Poor people buy the least expensive things and would pay the least. I thought the UK was pro flat tax.... I am afraid your sales tax idea is a little backwards. As a % of income the rich spend less than the poor who have to spend most of their money just to buy the basic things like food and gas. This would essentially make it even harder for the poor to get by and the rich would still be fine if not even better off. We don't have sales tax on life essencial goods- least in my state http://revenue.ky.gov/NR/rdonlyres/332F2097-1179-4EBC-989F-C5074B482593/0/sufacts_v6n2.pdfNow gas isn't needed, because cars arn't needed. Maybe it's different for others, but a poor person could still get by without ever paying a single tax dollar. But name one rich dude who doens't own a nice car/home/boat all are taxable. Meh my uncle is easily top 0.5% and he drives a cheap old 2002 volkswagon, lives in a house that is smaller than mine and doesn't like boats. So there is one person for you. Anecdotes aside, Very high sales tax would make it much harder for low income families to make purchases which would be bad for the economy as well as make life unnecessarilly harder for them. I would also argue that for most people who want to make a decent living a commute to work is probably likely, therefore gasoline is needed. And the Stalin rant you are going on almost makes it sound like you would not mind the poor dying on the street provided the rich do not have to pay higher taxes. I was thinking really hard of a way that the poor contribute to a society and that was all I could think up. Who do you think works all the shitty jobs that your bourgeois ass can't be bothered to take? I do my own dirty jobs. I've scrubbed floors, emptied trash, lubed jets, delt with hazzardous chemicals, cleaned toilets, painted walls, stocked shelves, paper pushed. Even now as a Military member I do dirty jobs- just today I ran an obsticle course through low crawling through a pig field, training. If you can low crawl through a pig field and not puke you can do anything. I was reaking and hadto take several showers afterward. Ok, so you're a self-hating proletarian. Ideology has sure done its job on you. Here's an educational handout for you: "hazardous" "obstacle" "reeking"
“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”
-John Steinbeck
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On September 22 2012 10:13 sevencck wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 10:08 sam!zdat wrote:On September 22 2012 10:06 SayGen wrote:On September 22 2012 10:00 sam!zdat wrote:On September 22 2012 09:59 SayGen wrote:On September 22 2012 09:51 TotalBalanceSC2 wrote:On September 22 2012 09:33 SayGen wrote:On September 22 2012 09:26 TotalBalanceSC2 wrote:On September 22 2012 09:20 SayGen wrote:On September 22 2012 09:17 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
Of course it's sarcasm. The proportion of people who can't see the obvious problems with the 9-9-9 plan is actually lower than the proportion of people in society who are actually legitimately retarded. I don't see how it's not fair... The rich pay the most, the poor pay the least- the middle is the middle. The only other plan that I think could be more fair is the removal of all taxes with a massive increase on sales tax. This way you are only taxed on what you buy. Rich people buy alot of junk they pay the most. Poor people buy the least expensive things and would pay the least. I thought the UK was pro flat tax.... I am afraid your sales tax idea is a little backwards. As a % of income the rich spend less than the poor who have to spend most of their money just to buy the basic things like food and gas. This would essentially make it even harder for the poor to get by and the rich would still be fine if not even better off. We don't have sales tax on life essencial goods- least in my state http://revenue.ky.gov/NR/rdonlyres/332F2097-1179-4EBC-989F-C5074B482593/0/sufacts_v6n2.pdfNow gas isn't needed, because cars arn't needed. Maybe it's different for others, but a poor person could still get by without ever paying a single tax dollar. But name one rich dude who doens't own a nice car/home/boat all are taxable. Meh my uncle is easily top 0.5% and he drives a cheap old 2002 volkswagon, lives in a house that is smaller than mine and doesn't like boats. So there is one person for you. Anecdotes aside, Very high sales tax would make it much harder for low income families to make purchases which would be bad for the economy as well as make life unnecessarilly harder for them. I would also argue that for most people who want to make a decent living a commute to work is probably likely, therefore gasoline is needed. And the Stalin rant you are going on almost makes it sound like you would not mind the poor dying on the street provided the rich do not have to pay higher taxes. I was thinking really hard of a way that the poor contribute to a society and that was all I could think up. Who do you think works all the shitty jobs that your bourgeois ass can't be bothered to take? I do my own dirty jobs. I've scrubbed floors, emptied trash, lubed jets, delt with hazzardous chemicals, cleaned toilets, painted walls, stocked shelves, paper pushed. Even now as a Military member I do dirty jobs- just today I ran an obsticle course through low crawling through a pig field, training. If you can low crawl through a pig field and not puke you can do anything. I was reaking and hadto take several showers afterward. Ok, so you're a self-hating proletarian. Ideology has sure done its job on you. Here's an educational handout for you: "hazardous" "obstacle" "reeking" “Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.” -John Steinbeck
"I'm getting ready to buy a company that makes 250 to 280 thousand dollars a year. Your new tax plan's going to tax me more, isn't it?" - Joe the Plumber
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[QUOTE]On September 22 2012 10:08 Sanctimonius wrote:
No they aren't! The poor are the people with an income of a low amount. That's all, nothing more, nothing less. Yes, some people are lazy and don't have jobs, and have someone to sponge off. But a poor person is simply someone who has a low paying job, or no job at all. And please don't insult us by saying something like 'if they have no job then they are lazy'
To date, I don't recall ever seeing a lack of a job in my local newspaper classified section. Also at no time has the Airforce (my branch) ever stop accepting new recruits. It is lazyness. I sincerely beleive this. My goal isn't to offend, but offense is only taken not given- not from me. I can not control what does or does not offend you- I can only tell the truth as I know it.
- what about the handicapped,
Already excused
the recently unemployed, long-term unemployed who find it increasingly difficult to get a new job,
Join the military, pick up a newspaper. Many jobs never go out of demand, even in a recession- peopel are just too proud to do dirty jobs sometimes, and I feel no pity for them. If I did it so can you/whomever
those with little education, those living in areas of depressed economy,
library's are free- go educate yourself, learn a trade. Construction is a popular field. Roads always need to be maintained/expanded.
I taught myself lots of things.
the sick?
Already said excused
You can be poor, very quickly, through no fault of your own - would that be laziness? Hell, falling ill in the US can make you poor, if your HMo doesn't cover it, or you're not full time and can't afford health insurance, or your health insurance refuses to cover you because you are too expensive for them, or have a pre-existing condition (which includes things like a woman having a caesarian, for some reason, or being born with a heart murmur or asthma).
The middle class, historically, was the merchants and, to some extent, the minor priesthood. It was a smaller section than the unwashed masses which made up the poor, but still larger than those at the very top, the lords and barons and kings. More recently, it has expanded to the general populace, meaning those with degrees, those who find themselves earning over a certain amount a year, those who were lucky enough to be born into it. Now, in this economy of not being guaranteed a job, or having reduced hours/pay, you find a lot more people slipping from the middle class into the poor - are these the lazy people? I recently managed to get a job. In this job, there are ten people who work in my business, 2 of which are full-time, the rest are part time. Most of us are stuck on a few days work a week, and if they need people to work more they will hire another part-timer because, quite simply, part-timers can be paid less and get no benefits, thus cost the company less.
If you really want more work, *I'm being very serious* send me a PM and i'll give you contact information for people who are looking for workers- full time.
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On September 22 2012 10:08 sam!zdat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 10:06 SayGen wrote:On September 22 2012 10:00 sam!zdat wrote:On September 22 2012 09:59 SayGen wrote:On September 22 2012 09:51 TotalBalanceSC2 wrote:On September 22 2012 09:33 SayGen wrote:On September 22 2012 09:26 TotalBalanceSC2 wrote:On September 22 2012 09:20 SayGen wrote:On September 22 2012 09:17 KwarK wrote:On September 22 2012 09:15 SayGen wrote:
[quote]
Is that sarcasm or do you actually agree with me on something? Of course it's sarcasm. The proportion of people who can't see the obvious problems with the 9-9-9 plan is actually lower than the proportion of people in society who are actually legitimately retarded. I don't see how it's not fair... The rich pay the most, the poor pay the least- the middle is the middle. The only other plan that I think could be more fair is the removal of all taxes with a massive increase on sales tax. This way you are only taxed on what you buy. Rich people buy alot of junk they pay the most. Poor people buy the least expensive things and would pay the least. I thought the UK was pro flat tax.... I am afraid your sales tax idea is a little backwards. As a % of income the rich spend less than the poor who have to spend most of their money just to buy the basic things like food and gas. This would essentially make it even harder for the poor to get by and the rich would still be fine if not even better off. We don't have sales tax on life essencial goods- least in my state http://revenue.ky.gov/NR/rdonlyres/332F2097-1179-4EBC-989F-C5074B482593/0/sufacts_v6n2.pdfNow gas isn't needed, because cars arn't needed. Maybe it's different for others, but a poor person could still get by without ever paying a single tax dollar. But name one rich dude who doens't own a nice car/home/boat all are taxable. Meh my uncle is easily top 0.5% and he drives a cheap old 2002 volkswagon, lives in a house that is smaller than mine and doesn't like boats. So there is one person for you. Anecdotes aside, Very high sales tax would make it much harder for low income families to make purchases which would be bad for the economy as well as make life unnecessarilly harder for them. I would also argue that for most people who want to make a decent living a commute to work is probably likely, therefore gasoline is needed. And the Stalin rant you are going on almost makes it sound like you would not mind the poor dying on the street provided the rich do not have to pay higher taxes. I was thinking really hard of a way that the poor contribute to a society and that was all I could think up. Who do you think works all the shitty jobs that your bourgeois ass can't be bothered to take? I do my own dirty jobs. I've scrubbed floors, emptied trash, lubed jets, delt with hazzardous chemicals, cleaned toilets, painted walls, stocked shelves, paper pushed. Even now as a Military member I do dirty jobs- just today I ran an obsticle course through low crawling through a pig field, training. If you can low crawl through a pig field and not puke you can do anything. I was reaking and hadto take several showers afterward. Ok, so you're a self-hating proletarian. Ideology has sure done its job on you. Here's an educational handout for you: "hazardous" "obstacle" "reeking"
Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a total mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh?
User was warned for this post
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United States44432 Posts
On September 22 2012 10:02 SayGen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 10:01 KwarK wrote:
SayGen, you are not middle class, you are working class. There's a difference. Not in America. Middle is working. Rich don't work, or they are at the TOP of their career fields middle class do everything poor do nothing Americans don't have a working class.
No, what you are is working class who believes he's middle class despite lacking the education, background, money, security and prospects. In fact, everything the middle class have that the working class don't. What's happened to you is at some point in your life you've been told you're not working class so you can feel like you're not at the bottom of the social order being assfucked by everyone above you and it sounded like a nice fiction so you accepted it. The fact that you still actually have to work for your living, you can't afford health insurance, something as simple as a broken arm will wipe out your entire healthcare budget for two years (7k to fix, you saved 300/month) and you'll never be able to afford to send your kids to a good university has somehow escaped you. You've been told that there is some magical class below you which you should look down upon and they're why you have no money for shit and that you're middle class. You're not and you probably never will be because social mobility is at an all time low. What you are is a sucker. Your pride has pushed you into believing this absurd lie to protect your ego from the obvious, that you work harder and have less to show for it than pretty much everyone else.
You are that bizarre creature found propping up the base of societies where social mobility is in steady decline and wealth is pooling at the top, the working class who truly believes that he's being rewarded by the status quo and the problem is a mythical underclass who look exactly like him.
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On September 22 2012 10:18 SayGen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 10:08 sam!zdat wrote:On September 22 2012 10:06 SayGen wrote:On September 22 2012 10:00 sam!zdat wrote:On September 22 2012 09:59 SayGen wrote:On September 22 2012 09:51 TotalBalanceSC2 wrote:On September 22 2012 09:33 SayGen wrote:On September 22 2012 09:26 TotalBalanceSC2 wrote:On September 22 2012 09:20 SayGen wrote:On September 22 2012 09:17 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
Of course it's sarcasm. The proportion of people who can't see the obvious problems with the 9-9-9 plan is actually lower than the proportion of people in society who are actually legitimately retarded. I don't see how it's not fair... The rich pay the most, the poor pay the least- the middle is the middle. The only other plan that I think could be more fair is the removal of all taxes with a massive increase on sales tax. This way you are only taxed on what you buy. Rich people buy alot of junk they pay the most. Poor people buy the least expensive things and would pay the least. I thought the UK was pro flat tax.... I am afraid your sales tax idea is a little backwards. As a % of income the rich spend less than the poor who have to spend most of their money just to buy the basic things like food and gas. This would essentially make it even harder for the poor to get by and the rich would still be fine if not even better off. We don't have sales tax on life essencial goods- least in my state http://revenue.ky.gov/NR/rdonlyres/332F2097-1179-4EBC-989F-C5074B482593/0/sufacts_v6n2.pdfNow gas isn't needed, because cars arn't needed. Maybe it's different for others, but a poor person could still get by without ever paying a single tax dollar. But name one rich dude who doens't own a nice car/home/boat all are taxable. Meh my uncle is easily top 0.5% and he drives a cheap old 2002 volkswagon, lives in a house that is smaller than mine and doesn't like boats. So there is one person for you. Anecdotes aside, Very high sales tax would make it much harder for low income families to make purchases which would be bad for the economy as well as make life unnecessarilly harder for them. I would also argue that for most people who want to make a decent living a commute to work is probably likely, therefore gasoline is needed. And the Stalin rant you are going on almost makes it sound like you would not mind the poor dying on the street provided the rich do not have to pay higher taxes. I was thinking really hard of a way that the poor contribute to a society and that was all I could think up. Who do you think works all the shitty jobs that your bourgeois ass can't be bothered to take? I do my own dirty jobs. I've scrubbed floors, emptied trash, lubed jets, delt with hazzardous chemicals, cleaned toilets, painted walls, stocked shelves, paper pushed. Even now as a Military member I do dirty jobs- just today I ran an obsticle course through low crawling through a pig field, training. If you can low crawl through a pig field and not puke you can do anything. I was reaking and hadto take several showers afterward. Ok, so you're a self-hating proletarian. Ideology has sure done its job on you. Here's an educational handout for you: "hazardous" "obstacle" "reeking" Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a total mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh?
Yes, you posted that already, it was hilarious when I saw it the first time ten years ago.
I'm trying to give you some totally free social capital so you can sound more intelligent when you say absurd things on the internet. Be a good prole and accept the handout.
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On September 22 2012 10:13 sevencck wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 10:08 sam!zdat wrote:On September 22 2012 10:06 SayGen wrote:On September 22 2012 10:00 sam!zdat wrote:On September 22 2012 09:59 SayGen wrote:On September 22 2012 09:51 TotalBalanceSC2 wrote:On September 22 2012 09:33 SayGen wrote:On September 22 2012 09:26 TotalBalanceSC2 wrote:On September 22 2012 09:20 SayGen wrote:On September 22 2012 09:17 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
Of course it's sarcasm. The proportion of people who can't see the obvious problems with the 9-9-9 plan is actually lower than the proportion of people in society who are actually legitimately retarded. I don't see how it's not fair... The rich pay the most, the poor pay the least- the middle is the middle. The only other plan that I think could be more fair is the removal of all taxes with a massive increase on sales tax. This way you are only taxed on what you buy. Rich people buy alot of junk they pay the most. Poor people buy the least expensive things and would pay the least. I thought the UK was pro flat tax.... I am afraid your sales tax idea is a little backwards. As a % of income the rich spend less than the poor who have to spend most of their money just to buy the basic things like food and gas. This would essentially make it even harder for the poor to get by and the rich would still be fine if not even better off. We don't have sales tax on life essencial goods- least in my state http://revenue.ky.gov/NR/rdonlyres/332F2097-1179-4EBC-989F-C5074B482593/0/sufacts_v6n2.pdfNow gas isn't needed, because cars arn't needed. Maybe it's different for others, but a poor person could still get by without ever paying a single tax dollar. But name one rich dude who doens't own a nice car/home/boat all are taxable. Meh my uncle is easily top 0.5% and he drives a cheap old 2002 volkswagon, lives in a house that is smaller than mine and doesn't like boats. So there is one person for you. Anecdotes aside, Very high sales tax would make it much harder for low income families to make purchases which would be bad for the economy as well as make life unnecessarilly harder for them. I would also argue that for most people who want to make a decent living a commute to work is probably likely, therefore gasoline is needed. And the Stalin rant you are going on almost makes it sound like you would not mind the poor dying on the street provided the rich do not have to pay higher taxes. I was thinking really hard of a way that the poor contribute to a society and that was all I could think up. Who do you think works all the shitty jobs that your bourgeois ass can't be bothered to take? I do my own dirty jobs. I've scrubbed floors, emptied trash, lubed jets, delt with hazzardous chemicals, cleaned toilets, painted walls, stocked shelves, paper pushed. Even now as a Military member I do dirty jobs- just today I ran an obsticle course through low crawling through a pig field, training. If you can low crawl through a pig field and not puke you can do anything. I was reaking and hadto take several showers afterward. Ok, so you're a self-hating proletarian. Ideology has sure done its job on you. Here's an educational handout for you: "hazardous" "obstacle" "reeking" “Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.” -John Steinbeck
Socialism never took root in America cause people want liberty.
People don't want to be told what to do or think.
Liberals (the left socialist movement) are already trying to take soda away from people.
I personally think people need to slim down- we got alot of fat bodies in America (note if your fat your not going hungry, hence no one feels sorry for you) I do not however want to tell someone to put the soda down, it is there choice to be self destructive if they so choose. All I ask is that you don't take me down with you--like poor people who take away from my tax dollars.
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
I bet in SayGen's world, the unemployment rate is just the number of lazy people in the country.
In any case, this thread is getting derailed by his nonsense. I leave you with a quote from our beloved Franklin D. Roosevelt:
The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much, it is whether we provide enough for those who have little.
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On September 22 2012 10:21 SayGen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 10:13 sevencck wrote:On September 22 2012 10:08 sam!zdat wrote:On September 22 2012 10:06 SayGen wrote:On September 22 2012 10:00 sam!zdat wrote:On September 22 2012 09:59 SayGen wrote:On September 22 2012 09:51 TotalBalanceSC2 wrote:On September 22 2012 09:33 SayGen wrote:On September 22 2012 09:26 TotalBalanceSC2 wrote:On September 22 2012 09:20 SayGen wrote:
[quote]
I don't see how it's not fair... The rich pay the most, the poor pay the least- the middle is the middle.
The only other plan that I think could be more fair is the removal of all taxes with a massive increase on sales tax.
This way you are only taxed on what you buy. Rich people buy alot of junk they pay the most.
Poor people buy the least expensive things and would pay the least.
I thought the UK was pro flat tax.... I am afraid your sales tax idea is a little backwards. As a % of income the rich spend less than the poor who have to spend most of their money just to buy the basic things like food and gas. This would essentially make it even harder for the poor to get by and the rich would still be fine if not even better off. We don't have sales tax on life essencial goods- least in my state http://revenue.ky.gov/NR/rdonlyres/332F2097-1179-4EBC-989F-C5074B482593/0/sufacts_v6n2.pdfNow gas isn't needed, because cars arn't needed. Maybe it's different for others, but a poor person could still get by without ever paying a single tax dollar. But name one rich dude who doens't own a nice car/home/boat all are taxable. Meh my uncle is easily top 0.5% and he drives a cheap old 2002 volkswagon, lives in a house that is smaller than mine and doesn't like boats. So there is one person for you. Anecdotes aside, Very high sales tax would make it much harder for low income families to make purchases which would be bad for the economy as well as make life unnecessarilly harder for them. I would also argue that for most people who want to make a decent living a commute to work is probably likely, therefore gasoline is needed. And the Stalin rant you are going on almost makes it sound like you would not mind the poor dying on the street provided the rich do not have to pay higher taxes. I was thinking really hard of a way that the poor contribute to a society and that was all I could think up. Who do you think works all the shitty jobs that your bourgeois ass can't be bothered to take? I do my own dirty jobs. I've scrubbed floors, emptied trash, lubed jets, delt with hazzardous chemicals, cleaned toilets, painted walls, stocked shelves, paper pushed. Even now as a Military member I do dirty jobs- just today I ran an obsticle course through low crawling through a pig field, training. If you can low crawl through a pig field and not puke you can do anything. I was reaking and hadto take several showers afterward. Ok, so you're a self-hating proletarian. Ideology has sure done its job on you. Here's an educational handout for you: "hazardous" "obstacle" "reeking" “Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.” -John Steinbeck Socialism never took root in America cause people want liberty. People don't want to be told what to do or think. Liberals (the left socialist movement) are already trying to take soda away from people. I personally think people need to slim down- we got alot of fat bodies in America (note if your fat your not going hungry, hence no one feels sorry for you) I do not however want to tell someone to put the soda down, it is there choice to be self destructive if they so choose. All I ask is that you don't take me down with you--like poor people who take away from my tax dollars.
In only this page, you've described how hard you work for the small amount of money you don't want to have to part with. Why are you doing such jobs? What else might you do? How much might you make? Do you realize how much money other people can take home on the back of what people like you are doing? Look what happened to you when you broke a bone. What happens if you suffer a more serious injury? How have you managed to convince yourself you're free? Can you convince me?
Edit: Kwark isn't pulling his punches, but what he's written is true. You're proudly faciliatating your own social exploitation, while denouncing those working in your interest. I only wish you could see it.
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United States44432 Posts
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On September 22 2012 09:23 SayGen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 09:16 farvacola wrote:On September 22 2012 09:15 KwarK wrote:On September 22 2012 09:04 farvacola wrote:On September 22 2012 09:00 SayGen wrote:On September 22 2012 08:56 TheTenthDoc wrote:On September 22 2012 08:55 SayGen wrote:On September 22 2012 08:49 TheTenthDoc wrote:On September 22 2012 08:08 kmillz wrote:On September 22 2012 08:05 SayGen wrote:[quote] Obama will win. Let's be realistic here. As fun as this whole conversion/disscussion is. Most Americans arn't smart. Hate to say that but we arn't. One person says- vote for me and I will Give you 'free stuff' One person says- I will do my best to fix the economy and give you the shot at getting a job. Who wins? Take the names and ideology away and it comes down to "What's best for me" People don't care about http://www.usdebtclock.org/People don't care if our schools, Reseach Facalities, Military are all in decline. I'm poor and broke, but I'm still not going to vote for somebody for "free stuff" I'm going to vote for the person that isn't going to completely destroy our economy so my kids aren't going to have to pay 10$ for a gallon of milk or loaf of bread. So you're going to vote for a third party candidate? Because neither of the main candidates has a comprehensive plan to avoid economic fall-out post-Eurozone, which is the only thing I can think of that could lead to hyperinflation bar natural disasters (heck, even if you're an Austrian economics dude Romney isn't touching the fed). Neither of them even seems willing to mention it. On September 22 2012 08:47 SayGen wrote:Hence why I don't like Romney. He sucks. It's his lucky day Obama sucks worse. Where is Ron Paul/Hermain Cain/Rand Paul/ Gary Johnson when you need him..... Took you seriously until Herman Cain. He unintentionally quoted Pokemon and had no idea what he was talking about at any point during his run. The fact that he was "leading" at one point points to the hilarity of this last primary season. Rather him quote Pokemon than Obama talk about reality TV and make appearences on TV sitcoms The key is unintentionally. The man was at best out purely for advertisement and at worst a buffoon. There was no compelling reason to vote for him over having no president at all, to be honest. 1) Support government transparency 2) 9-9-9 tax plan that would close loop holes for the rich, lower taxes for the rich- and attempt to be very close to revenue neutral as possible. 3) Common Sense solutions- less government 4) Traditional conservatives views. 5) He wasn't a politican, he was a business man. Ladies and gentleman, we've found ourselves a believer in the 9-9-9 tax. My goodness, I thought they didn't really exist. How could anything be fairer than a flat tax rate taking the same proportion from those most able to pay as those least able to pay? But haven't you heard, Kwark? The diminishing marginal utility of income is a thing of fantasy and liberal bias! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MarginalismSupply/demand fixes Marginalism
My favorite sentence in that article:
"The neoclassical tradition that emerged from British marginalism abandoned the concept of utility"
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What the fuck! LOL. I can't believe this exists.
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
THANK YOU. I was wondering if TL had a squelch option. No more SayGens, no more NonCorporeals, and no more dvorakftws! Yay!
LOL. "Show Retardation." It works. Woo. :D
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EPT
