Oh I agree neoconservatism is deeply engrained into American society and culture, but many of those ideals and/or policies you've listed are not exclusive to conservatism. Our innate freedoms as outlined in the Bill of Rights (some of which you've mentioned) are certainly not "conservative." If anything, they're merely democratic and, well, American.
Moving on to the more erroneous claim you made, regarding the liberalist foreign policy, is wildly innaccurate and shows nothing more than your own, inherent Republican bias. As a student of International Relations, I consider myself an Independent (the contemporary polarization of political partisanship sickens me), and I feel I can look at Obama's foreign policy objectively. His two primary military endeavors are relics of the Bush administration, and his foreign aid policies are nothing more than humanitarian. It is certainly not "anti-American."
Edit: Also, didn't really mean to attack you in that previous post. Political discourse sometimes gets the best of me.
On September 06 2012 03:27 NonCorporeal wrote: Falling, I think we have different views of the left-right spectrum. This is what it should be:
Far-Right: Anarcho-Capitalism (No Government) Centre-Right: Libertarianism (Small Government) Centre-Left: US Republican Party (Big Government) Far-Left: US Democratic Party (Gigantic Government)
Far-Right: Anarcho-Capitalism (No Government) Right: Libertarianism (Minimalist Government) Center-Right: US Republican Party (Very limited, but visible Government) Center: US Democratic Party (Government provides some services, market provides alternatives to most) Center-Left: Scandinavian Countries (Government provides services and owns entire industries) Left: China (public ownership of most industries, extreme oversight) Far-Left: Communism (public ownership of all means of production)
That's what it should look like. Even then, I might still have skewed it towards the left, so Democrats may be more "right" than I put them as.
I'm surprised that an American would draw that conclusion, it seems more like what someone in the Soviet Union would say, no offense. There's nothing "centre" about the Democrats or the EU socialists.
His depiction is quite accurate, though I would generally just say that the spectrum in regards to the US is skewed. Compared to the EU, US is slightly to the right.
It's not that easily to distinguish because many countries come from different backgrounds and developed in a different way. But for starters this should do.
America is a right-wing country that was founded on right-wing values by right-wingers.
The US Democrats have a foreign ideology that is anti-American.
Honestly as a fellow American, people like you make me sick to my stomach. No wonder political discourse in this country is at an all-time low.
It's simply a fact, you can't deny that America wasn't founded on classical liberalism (modern conservatism/libertarianism).
Classical liberalism was certainly the predominant political ideology in America's early years, but don't throw around generalizations like they're facts. Politics in America have had a polarizing effect on its constituents since the federalist papers (i.e., federalists vs. nonfederalists), which predates the Constitution.
Also, in regard to the right-wing country, right-wing values nonsense, people REALLY need to do some research and/or know what they're talking about before spewing bullshit on a publicly viewed forum, albeit one as politically insignificant as this.
How is it nonsense? America values capitalism, gun ownership, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, concealed carry, right to trial by jury, freedom of assembly, freedom of the press, and various other right-wing values. Not to mention the Constitution.
Classical liberalism was quite left-wing for its day. I mean Adam Smith would be considered too left-wing to be a Republican even today.
Yes, they are American and they were created by conservatives (the Founding Fathers). Liberals want to destroy the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, they don't hold American views, they hold foreign EU socialist views. Obama has downsized the military and is purposely letting the economy to collapse in order to make America internationally weak. He also said that he wants to get rid of all of our troops from our allies, leaving both America and our allies weak. Also, Hillary Clinton (at least I think it was her) said she wants to get rid of our Navy.
On September 06 2012 03:27 NonCorporeal wrote: Falling, I think we have different views of the left-right spectrum. This is what it should be:
Far-Right: Anarcho-Capitalism (No Government) Centre-Right: Libertarianism (Small Government) Centre-Left: US Republican Party (Big Government) Far-Left: US Democratic Party (Gigantic Government)
Far-Right: Anarcho-Capitalism (No Government) Right: Libertarianism (Minimalist Government) Center-Right: US Republican Party (Very limited, but visible Government) Center: US Democratic Party (Government provides some services, market provides alternatives to most) Center-Left: Scandinavian Countries (Government provides services and owns entire industries) Left: China (public ownership of most industries, extreme oversight) Far-Left: Communism (public ownership of all means of production)
That's what it should look like. Even then, I might still have skewed it towards the left, so Democrats may be more "right" than I put them as.
I'm surprised that an American would draw that conclusion, it seems more like what someone in the Soviet Union would say, no offense. There's nothing "centre" about the Democrats or the EU socialists.
His depiction is quite accurate, though I would generally just say that the spectrum in regards to the US is skewed. Compared to the EU, US is slightly to the right.
It's not that easily to distinguish because many countries come from different backgrounds and developed in a different way. But for starters this should do.
America is a right-wing country that was founded on right-wing values by right-wingers.
The US Democrats have a foreign ideology that is anti-American.
Honestly as a fellow American, people like you make me sick to my stomach. No wonder political discourse in this country is at an all-time low.
It's simply a fact, you can't deny that America wasn't founded on classical liberalism (modern conservatism/libertarianism).
Classical liberalism was certainly the predominant political ideology in America's early years, but don't throw around generalizations like they're facts. Politics in America have had a polarizing effect on its constituents since the federalist papers (i.e., federalists vs. nonfederalists), which predates the Constitution.
Also, in regard to the right-wing country, right-wing values nonsense, people REALLY need to do some research and/or know what they're talking about before spewing bullshit on a publicly viewed forum, albeit one as politically insignificant as this.
How is it nonsense? America values capitalism, gun ownership, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, concealed carry, right to trial by jury, freedom of assembly, freedom of the press, and various other right-wing values. Not to mention the Constitution.
... This is so ridiculous it's awesome. Keep fighting the good fight against that darned anti-American half of America that disagrees with you.
I hope the hacking thing is false. Romney's refusal to release the documents is probably worse than any dirt found in them anyway.
On September 06 2012 05:24 NonCorporeal wrote: Yes, they are American and they were created by conservatives (the Founding Fathers). Liberals want to destroy the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, they don't hold American views, they hold foreign EU socialist views. Obama has downsized the military and is purposely letting the economy to collapse in order to make America internationally weak. He also said that he wants to get rid of all of our troops from our allies, leaving both America and our allies weak. Also, Hillary Clinton (at least I think it was her) said she wants to get rid of our Navy.
Edit: No offense taken.
Honestly man I commend you for your civility in discussion, which seems to be a rarity here these days, but I can't agree with anything you're saying. They are merely your beliefs; your interpretations of American history and contemporary policy and as such I can't disprove them, but neither can I agree with them.
I can, however, disprove the statement you made that our Secretary of State is seeking to abolish our navy. That has not, nor will ever, happen.
On September 06 2012 02:54 kwizach wrote: Or maybe you could take a look at your own graph and realize that Republicans are the ones responsible for most of the significant increases in the debt?.
Yeah, no.
Yeah, yes. I don't even know how that graph is supposed to support your point in any way. Was I claiming that we did not have a deficit in 2011 or something?
Debt comes from too much spending. Blaming Republicans for unfunded trillions from the "Great Society" because their bill comes due when Republicans are in office is silly.
Good, because that's not the reason I'm blaming them. It's ironic that you, on the other hand, are doing exactly that, namely blaming Obama for deficits that are both the result of an economic crisis he inherited and policies that were enacted under Bush (Medicare part D, the Bush tax cuts and the wars).
On September 06 2012 03:43 ilikeredheads wrote: Chuck Norris wants a certain group of people to vote a certain way.... + Show Spoiler +
I don't know want to say.....
Can't watch the video, because I'm at my college library and don't have headphones to hear the sound. But I have gained some respect for Chuck Norris in recent months, he has been very vocal about supporting gun rights and the NRA, which is always a good thing.
Colbert did a bit on yesterday's show ("a thousand years of darkness...!")
As much as you can be, legitimately, disappointed by Obama's performance and his views, the rhetoric is rather comical.
//edit: but oh well, if Chuck Norris says so... x-D
Do you mind giving a link? For some reason I must have missed that one on his website :-)
On September 06 2012 04:12 NonCorporeal wrote:
On September 06 2012 04:05 HellRoxYa wrote:
On September 06 2012 04:02 NonCorporeal wrote:
On September 06 2012 03:41 aksfjh wrote:
On September 06 2012 03:27 NonCorporeal wrote: Falling, I think we have different views of the left-right spectrum. This is what it should be:
Far-Right: Anarcho-Capitalism (No Government) Centre-Right: Libertarianism (Small Government) Centre-Left: US Republican Party (Big Government) Far-Left: US Democratic Party (Gigantic Government)
Far-Right: Anarcho-Capitalism (No Government) Right: Libertarianism (Minimalist Government) Center-Right: US Republican Party (Very limited, but visible Government) Center: US Democratic Party (Government provides some services, market provides alternatives to most) Center-Left: Scandinavian Countries (Government provides services and owns entire industries) Left: China (public ownership of most industries, extreme oversight) Far-Left: Communism (public ownership of all means of production)
That's what it should look like. Even then, I might still have skewed it towards the left, so Democrats may be more "right" than I put them as.
I'm surprised that an American would draw that conclusion, it seems more like what someone in the Soviet Union would say, no offense. There's nothing "centre" about the Democrats or the EU socialists.
Maybe you should actually pick up a book? Just because those political views aren't represented in your country (and thus pretty irrelevant to this thread) doesn't mean that the US political spectrum is "the" political spectrum. It isn't. If you would like to rephrase what you said to explicitly being the US political spectrum then I agree with you, but the democratic party is anything but left oriented in a more general setting.
The Democrat Party parrots the French Socialist Party, British Labour Party, German SDP, and various other left-wing European parties word-for-word. Making the government as big as possible, banning guns, creating a welfare state, pushing unlimited immigration, pushing socialist globalization (EU, UN, NAFTA, etc.), pushing non-interventionism, backing Palestine instead of Israel, etc.
Even by EU standards, the Democrats are decidedly left-wing.
I don't think you're familiar with the actual policies of EU parties. The Democratic Party is very clearly not left-wing but center by EU standards.
Gosh I am sorry for misleading you, it was John Stewart, mixed them up... they are both so damn brilliant.
ahah, thanks. I usually watch both Colbert and Stewart online the day after each show, but I hadn't yet had the time to watch Stewart this week. Cheers :-)
On September 06 2012 03:27 NonCorporeal wrote: Falling, I think we have different views of the left-right spectrum. This is what it should be:
Far-Right: Anarcho-Capitalism (No Government) Centre-Right: Libertarianism (Small Government) Centre-Left: US Republican Party (Big Government) Far-Left: US Democratic Party (Gigantic Government)
Far-Right: Anarcho-Capitalism (No Government) Right: Libertarianism (Minimalist Government) Center-Right: US Republican Party (Very limited, but visible Government) Center: US Democratic Party (Government provides some services, market provides alternatives to most) Center-Left: Scandinavian Countries (Government provides services and owns entire industries) Left: China (public ownership of most industries, extreme oversight) Far-Left: Communism (public ownership of all means of production)
That's what it should look like. Even then, I might still have skewed it towards the left, so Democrats may be more "right" than I put them as.
I'm surprised that an American would draw that conclusion, it seems more like what someone in the Soviet Union would say, no offense. There's nothing "centre" about the Democrats or the EU socialists.
His depiction is quite accurate, though I would generally just say that the spectrum in regards to the US is skewed. Compared to the EU, US is slightly to the right.
It's not that easily to distinguish because many countries come from different backgrounds and developed in a different way. But for starters this should do.
America is a right-wing country that was founded on right-wing values by right-wingers.
The US Democrats have a foreign ideology that is anti-American.
Honestly as a fellow American, people like you make me sick to my stomach. No wonder political discourse in this country is at an all-time low.
It's simply a fact, you can't deny that America wasn't founded on classical liberalism (modern conservatism/libertarianism).
Classical liberalism was certainly the predominant political ideology in America's early years, but don't throw around generalizations like they're facts. Politics in America have had a polarizing effect on its constituents since the federalist papers (i.e., federalists vs. nonfederalists), which predates the Constitution.
Also, in regard to the right-wing country, right-wing values nonsense, people REALLY need to do some research and/or know what they're talking about before spewing bullshit on a publicly viewed forum, albeit one as politically insignificant as this.
How is it nonsense? America values capitalism, gun ownership, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, concealed carry, right to trial by jury, freedom of assembly, freedom of the press, and various other right-wing values. Not to mention the Constitution.
Classical liberalism was quite left-wing for its day. I mean Adam Smith would be considered too left-wing to be a Republican even today.
Probably not. And the "This guy who represents X would be considered not X enough by the people who say they believe in X today!" type of comment doesn't mean anything, it's just another way to say "OMG THEY SO EXTREMIST!!!!"
FDR would have been highly displeased at the level of waste in our current government but that doesn't mean he'd repudiate the Democrats or that he'd be too right-wing for them.
On September 06 2012 03:27 NonCorporeal wrote: Falling, I think we have different views of the left-right spectrum. This is what it should be:
Far-Right: Anarcho-Capitalism (No Government) Centre-Right: Libertarianism (Small Government) Centre-Left: US Republican Party (Big Government) Far-Left: US Democratic Party (Gigantic Government)
Far-Right: Anarcho-Capitalism (No Government) Right: Libertarianism (Minimalist Government) Center-Right: US Republican Party (Very limited, but visible Government) Center: US Democratic Party (Government provides some services, market provides alternatives to most) Center-Left: Scandinavian Countries (Government provides services and owns entire industries) Left: China (public ownership of most industries, extreme oversight) Far-Left: Communism (public ownership of all means of production)
That's what it should look like. Even then, I might still have skewed it towards the left, so Democrats may be more "right" than I put them as.
I'm surprised that an American would draw that conclusion, it seems more like what someone in the Soviet Union would say, no offense. There's nothing "centre" about the Democrats or the EU socialists.
His depiction is quite accurate, though I would generally just say that the spectrum in regards to the US is skewed. Compared to the EU, US is slightly to the right.
It's not that easily to distinguish because many countries come from different backgrounds and developed in a different way. But for starters this should do.
America is a right-wing country that was founded on right-wing values by right-wingers.
The US Democrats have a foreign ideology that is anti-American.
Honestly as a fellow American, people like you make me sick to my stomach. No wonder political discourse in this country is at an all-time low.
It's simply a fact, you can't deny that America wasn't founded on classical liberalism (modern conservatism/libertarianism).
Classical liberalism was certainly the predominant political ideology in America's early years, but don't throw around generalizations like they're facts. Politics in America have had a polarizing effect on its constituents since the federalist papers (i.e., federalists vs. nonfederalists), which predates the Constitution.
Also, in regard to the right-wing country, right-wing values nonsense, people REALLY need to do some research and/or know what they're talking about before spewing bullshit on a publicly viewed forum, albeit one as politically insignificant as this.
How is it nonsense? America values capitalism, gun ownership, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, concealed carry, right to trial by jury, freedom of assembly, freedom of the press, and various other right-wing values. Not to mention the Constitution.
Classical liberalism was quite left-wing for its day. I mean Adam Smith would be considered too left-wing to be a Republican even today.
This is an excerpt from my text book on the subject:
On September 06 2012 03:27 NonCorporeal wrote: Falling, I think we have different views of the left-right spectrum. This is what it should be:
Far-Right: Anarcho-Capitalism (No Government) Centre-Right: Libertarianism (Small Government) Centre-Left: US Republican Party (Big Government) Far-Left: US Democratic Party (Gigantic Government)
Far-Right: Anarcho-Capitalism (No Government) Right: Libertarianism (Minimalist Government) Center-Right: US Republican Party (Very limited, but visible Government) Center: US Democratic Party (Government provides some services, market provides alternatives to most) Center-Left: Scandinavian Countries (Government provides services and owns entire industries) Left: China (public ownership of most industries, extreme oversight) Far-Left: Communism (public ownership of all means of production)
That's what it should look like. Even then, I might still have skewed it towards the left, so Democrats may be more "right" than I put them as.
I'm surprised that an American would draw that conclusion, it seems more like what someone in the Soviet Union would say, no offense. There's nothing "centre" about the Democrats or the EU socialists.
His depiction is quite accurate, though I would generally just say that the spectrum in regards to the US is skewed. Compared to the EU, US is slightly to the right.
It's not that easily to distinguish because many countries come from different backgrounds and developed in a different way. But for starters this should do.
America is a right-wing country that was founded on right-wing values by right-wingers.
The US Democrats have a foreign ideology that is anti-American.
Honestly as a fellow American, people like you make me sick to my stomach. No wonder political discourse in this country is at an all-time low.
It's simply a fact, you can't deny that America wasn't founded on classical liberalism (modern conservatism/libertarianism).
Classical liberalism was certainly the predominant political ideology in America's early years, but don't throw around generalizations like they're facts. Politics in America have had a polarizing effect on its constituents since the federalist papers (i.e., federalists vs. nonfederalists), which predates the Constitution.
Also, in regard to the right-wing country, right-wing values nonsense, people REALLY need to do some research and/or know what they're talking about before spewing bullshit on a publicly viewed forum, albeit one as politically insignificant as this.
How is it nonsense? America values capitalism, gun ownership, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, concealed carry, right to trial by jury, freedom of assembly, freedom of the press, and various other right-wing values. Not to mention the Constitution.
... This is so ridiculous it's awesome. Keep fighting the good fight against that darned anti-American half of America that disagrees with you.
I hope the hacking thing is false. Romney's refusal to release the documents is probably worse than any dirt found in them anyway.
By no means am I a Romney supporter, but the whole "tax returns" non-sense was started by Harry Reid as a lie (something Harry Reid is good at doing, lying). Harry Reid said that he heard a rumor that Romney has money hidden away in Switzerland and the Cayman Islands; he didn't even have any proof, and then the liberal media jumped at it and reported it, even though there was no proof one way or the other.
Edit: Again? Sorry, I need to pay more attention to double posting.
Far-Right: Anarcho-Capitalism (No Government) Right: Libertarianism (Minimalist Government) Center-Right: US Republican Party (Very limited, but visible Government) Center: US Democratic Party (Government provides some services, market provides alternatives to most) Center-Left: Scandinavian Countries (Government provides services and owns entire industries) Left: China (public ownership of most industries, extreme oversight) Far-Left: Communism (public ownership of all means of production)
That's what it should look like. Even then, I might still have skewed it towards the left, so Democrats may be more "right" than I put them as.
I'm surprised that an American would draw that conclusion, it seems more like what someone in the Soviet Union would say, no offense. There's nothing "centre" about the Democrats or the EU socialists.
His depiction is quite accurate, though I would generally just say that the spectrum in regards to the US is skewed. Compared to the EU, US is slightly to the right.
It's not that easily to distinguish because many countries come from different backgrounds and developed in a different way. But for starters this should do.
America is a right-wing country that was founded on right-wing values by right-wingers.
The US Democrats have a foreign ideology that is anti-American.
Honestly as a fellow American, people like you make me sick to my stomach. No wonder political discourse in this country is at an all-time low.
It's simply a fact, you can't deny that America wasn't founded on classical liberalism (modern conservatism/libertarianism).
Classical liberalism was certainly the predominant political ideology in America's early years, but don't throw around generalizations like they're facts. Politics in America have had a polarizing effect on its constituents since the federalist papers (i.e., federalists vs. nonfederalists), which predates the Constitution.
Also, in regard to the right-wing country, right-wing values nonsense, people REALLY need to do some research and/or know what they're talking about before spewing bullshit on a publicly viewed forum, albeit one as politically insignificant as this.
How is it nonsense? America values capitalism, gun ownership, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, concealed carry, right to trial by jury, freedom of assembly, freedom of the press, and various other right-wing values. Not to mention the Constitution.
Classical liberalism was quite left-wing for its day. I mean Adam Smith would be considered too left-wing to be a Republican even today.
Incorrect, this is an excerpt from my text book:
Judging by the context provided via description of more radical revolutions in other countries, the authors are using the word "conservative" in this case in order to illustrate the lack of pursuit of radical societal change. Why do you think the word conservative is in quotations in the title?
Republican vice-presidential candidate Paul Ryan is barnstorming the country, promising to repeal every provision of the Affordable Care Act if the Romney-Ryan ticket is elected. But a letter he wrote to the Obama administration may undermine this message.
On December 10, 2010, Ryan penned a letter to the Department of Health and Human Services to recommend a grant application for the Kenosha Community Health Center, Inc to develop a new facility in Racine, Wisconsin, an area within Ryan’s district. “The proposed new facility, the Belle City Neighborhood Health Center, will serve both the preventative and comprehensive primary healthcare needs of thousands of new patients of all ages who are currently without healthcare,” Ryan wrote.
The grant Ryan requested was funded directly by the Affordable Care Act, better known simply as healthcare reform or Obamacare.
The letter, among several obtained by The Nation and The Investigative Fund through a Freedom of Information Act request, is a stark reminder that even the most ardent opponents of Obamacare privately acknowledge many of the law’s benefits.
Federally funded health clinics have long provided a broad range of vital medical, dental and mental health services to underprivileged communities across the country, regardless of a persons’ ability to pay. To meet the goal of expanding coverage, the Affordable Care Act provides for a sweeping expansion of such clinics, including $9.5 billion for operating costs to existing community health centers and $1.5 billion for new construction.
In public, Ryan has cultivated a profile as one of health reform’s most outspoken critics. He savages the Affordable Care Act as an example of “Washington’s reckless spending spree,” as “irresponsible,” and has warned repeatedly that it would place the “federal government squarely in the middle of health-care decisions.”
Explaining his “philosophical difference” with Democrats, Ryan told ABC News this summer that he would seek to repeal the “entire law” because healthcare rights come from “nature and God,” not the government. He expressed dismay that the Supreme Court upheld the law during the interview.
On September 06 2012 05:24 NonCorporeal wrote: Yes, they are American and they were created by conservatives (the Founding Fathers). Liberals want to destroy the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, they don't hold American views, they hold foreign EU socialist views. Obama has downsized the military and is purposely letting the economy to collapse in order to make America internationally weak. He also said that he wants to get rid of all of our troops from our allies, leaving both America and our allies weak. Also, Hillary Clinton (at least I think it was her) said she wants to get rid of our Navy.
Edit: No offense taken.
Honestly man I commend you for your civility in discussion, which seems to be a rarity here these days, but I can't agree with anything you're saying. They are merely your beliefs; your interpretations of American history and contemporary policy and as such I can't disprove them, but neither can I agree with them.
I can, however, disprove the statement you made that our Secretary of State is seeking to abolish our navy. That has not, nor will ever, happen.
Thank you, I'd like to think that most people here have been civil. I know they're my beliefs, I'm not denying that I have been posting my opinions here. However some things I'd argue are just plain facts, like the American Revolution being based on classical liberalism, which is really undeniable, the Founding Fathers themselves took many of their ideas from John Locke, the founder of classical liberalism.
Far-Right: Anarcho-Capitalism (No Government) Right: Libertarianism (Minimalist Government) Center-Right: US Republican Party (Very limited, but visible Government) Center: US Democratic Party (Government provides some services, market provides alternatives to most) Center-Left: Scandinavian Countries (Government provides services and owns entire industries) Left: China (public ownership of most industries, extreme oversight) Far-Left: Communism (public ownership of all means of production)
That's what it should look like. Even then, I might still have skewed it towards the left, so Democrats may be more "right" than I put them as.
I'm surprised that an American would draw that conclusion, it seems more like what someone in the Soviet Union would say, no offense. There's nothing "centre" about the Democrats or the EU socialists.
His depiction is quite accurate, though I would generally just say that the spectrum in regards to the US is skewed. Compared to the EU, US is slightly to the right.
It's not that easily to distinguish because many countries come from different backgrounds and developed in a different way. But for starters this should do.
America is a right-wing country that was founded on right-wing values by right-wingers.
The US Democrats have a foreign ideology that is anti-American.
Honestly as a fellow American, people like you make me sick to my stomach. No wonder political discourse in this country is at an all-time low.
It's simply a fact, you can't deny that America wasn't founded on classical liberalism (modern conservatism/libertarianism).
Classical liberalism was certainly the predominant political ideology in America's early years, but don't throw around generalizations like they're facts. Politics in America have had a polarizing effect on its constituents since the federalist papers (i.e., federalists vs. nonfederalists), which predates the Constitution.
Also, in regard to the right-wing country, right-wing values nonsense, people REALLY need to do some research and/or know what they're talking about before spewing bullshit on a publicly viewed forum, albeit one as politically insignificant as this.
How is it nonsense? America values capitalism, gun ownership, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, concealed carry, right to trial by jury, freedom of assembly, freedom of the press, and various other right-wing values. Not to mention the Constitution.
Classical liberalism was quite left-wing for its day. I mean Adam Smith would be considered too left-wing to be a Republican even today.
Probably not. And the "This guy who represents X would be considered not X enough by the people who say they believe in X today!" type of comment doesn't mean anything, it's just another way to say "OMG THEY SO EXTREMIST!!!!"
FDR would have been highly displeased at the level of waste in our current government but that doesn't mean he'd repudiate the Democrats or that he'd be too right-wing for them.
I'm saying the framing of certain issues, especially economic ones, has shifted greatly, which is a good part of why trying to make comparisons between modern and historical politics is often fruitless.
Republican vice-presidential candidate Paul Ryan is barnstorming the country, promising to repeal every provision of the Affordable Care Act if the Romney-Ryan ticket is elected. But a letter he wrote to the Obama administration may undermine this message.
On December 10, 2010, Ryan penned a letter to the Department of Health and Human Services to recommend a grant application for the Kenosha Community Health Center, Inc to develop a new facility in Racine, Wisconsin, an area within Ryan’s district. “The proposed new facility, the Belle City Neighborhood Health Center, will serve both the preventative and comprehensive primary healthcare needs of thousands of new patients of all ages who are currently without healthcare,” Ryan wrote.
The grant Ryan requested was funded directly by the Affordable Care Act, better known simply as healthcare reform or Obamacare.
The letter, among several obtained by The Nation and The Investigative Fund through a Freedom of Information Act request, is a stark reminder that even the most ardent opponents of Obamacare privately acknowledge many of the law’s benefits.
Federally funded health clinics have long provided a broad range of vital medical, dental and mental health services to underprivileged communities across the country, regardless of a persons’ ability to pay. To meet the goal of expanding coverage, the Affordable Care Act provides for a sweeping expansion of such clinics, including $9.5 billion for operating costs to existing community health centers and $1.5 billion for new construction.
In public, Ryan has cultivated a profile as one of health reform’s most outspoken critics. He savages the Affordable Care Act as an example of “Washington’s reckless spending spree,” as “irresponsible,” and has warned repeatedly that it would place the “federal government squarely in the middle of health-care decisions.”
Explaining his “philosophical difference” with Democrats, Ryan told ABC News this summer that he would seek to repeal the “entire law” because healthcare rights come from “nature and God,” not the government. He expressed dismay that the Supreme Court upheld the law during the interview.
Oh I agree neoconservatism is deeply engrained into American society and culture, but many of those ideals and/or policies you've listed are not exclusive to conservatism. Our innate freedoms as outlined in the Bill of Rights (some of which you've mentioned) are certainly not "conservative." If anything, they're merely democratic and, well, American.
The loose interpretation of the freedoms guaranteed in the bill of rights is, however, liberal or activist (when interpreted by judges). There is a view of a living constitution that is unable to cope with new invented rights, that is unable to adjust to new societal demands of their government for provided services.
I agree that the freedoms ingrained in the bill of rights are not unique to conservatism any more than conservatives today want anything BUT a continuation of the status quo ... increased government responsibility and decreased personal responsibility. We have debates over gun control laws, because some wish the second amendment to be interpreted quite loosely. I mean beyond an automatic weapons ban, forcing some who own guns to not be allowed to carry them or even have a loaded gun in the house. It's a real strict constructionism versus loose constructionism debate, and from that debate derives a lot of the feeling that conservatism stands for a strict constructionist interpretation of the constitution and bill of rights against encroachment from government (and the ascendancy of one branch over another in powers). Welcome to tea party rallies waving replicas around and all the outrage on the taxation power of Congress (i.e. it can tax nonpurchase of a product or service) as outlined in the recent Roberts decision.
In other news, economy continues to be center stage in most of my talks with people in my city on politics. The president can spurt out 4.5 million jobs created all he wants, but it still isn't getting across. As we pass 16 trillion dollars in debt this week, somebody's gotta ask ... was the 5.4 trillion spent while Obama was in office a good idea?
Quite unreported now is the Senate responsibility to produce a budget ... I remind you that the Senate has a solid Democratic majority. The Senate has not done this for 1200 days. Side note: This is why you can't just say, "Durr, we'll keep elected politicians responsible by writing a law saying they have to make a budget every year." The words ring hollow about jobs when he promised an unemployment rate under 8% after passing it. I'd rather have a businessman in the White House that knows the value of a budget. I'd like a guy that had to comply with the financial rules Congress writes for corporations/businesses to follow where they routinely do the shadiest financial tricks to get price tags they like.
On September 06 2012 05:24 NonCorporeal wrote: Yes, they are American and they were created by conservatives (the Founding Fathers). Liberals want to destroy the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, they don't hold American views, they hold foreign EU socialist views. Obama has downsized the military and is purposely letting the economy to collapse in order to make America internationally weak. He also said that he wants to get rid of all of our troops from our allies, leaving both America and our allies weak. Also, Hillary Clinton (at least I think it was her) said she wants to get rid of our Navy.
Edit: No offense taken.
Honestly man I commend you for your civility in discussion, which seems to be a rarity here these days, but I can't agree with anything you're saying. They are merely your beliefs; your interpretations of American history and contemporary policy and as such I can't disprove them, but neither can I agree with them.
I can, however, disprove the statement you made that our Secretary of State is seeking to abolish our navy. That has not, nor will ever, happen.
Thank you, I'd like to think that most people here have been civil. I know they're my beliefs, I'm not denying that I have been posting my opinions here. However some things I'd argue are just plain facts, like the American Revolution being based on classical liberalism, which is really undeniable, the Founding Fathers themselves took many of their ideas from John Locke, the founder of classical liberalism.
I agree classical liberalism was one of the first schools of political thought in the United States. You seem to know a good deal about politics, but all of your opinions seem overwhelmingly biased and Republican-skewed. Obviously not faulting you for that; as I mentioned before I realize the polarizing affect politcal partisanship has had on our country. It's sad really.
Remember good ole' George Washington? He warned us not to create political parties, for that reason alone: it would divide us. As someone currently enrolled in his last year of undergrad (IR major, mainly foreign policy courses) I can tell you I was HEAVILY biased coming into school, and really inherited the majority of my political viewpoints from the Daily Show or Colbert Report, both of which maintain strong liberal biases.
I can tell you it is fucking enlightening to just have that epiphany one day; to just wake up and realize mass media in this country is a fucking disaster and guides public opinion whichever way it desires. I'm not sure where you are in your life, what you've studied or whether you think everything I'm saying is bullshit. I can't tell you what to think, right? Man, in a nation with over 310 million people and the way the 24-hour news cycle works, I'm afraid one voice is too easily drowned out by those with more influence and power. Anyway Ima ladder for a bit. Take it easy.
It's hilarious when Democrats say they are "pro-choice," yet they insist on banning guns, banning "unhealthy" food, forcing everyone to join trade unions, etc.
Just as hilarious as being against choice but pro war on terrorism, drugs, the death penalty and a miriad of other things republicans and many others do not have the slightest issue with.
EPT![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2b/U.S._Federal_Spending_-_FY_2011.png/350px-U.S._Federal_Spending_-_FY_2011.png)
![[image loading]](http://i45.tinypic.com/295470n.png)
