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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
On October 25 2012 15:16 Swazi Spring wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 15:14 Souma wrote:On October 25 2012 15:09 BluePanther wrote:On October 25 2012 15:00 sevencck wrote:On October 25 2012 14:58 Swazi Spring wrote:On October 25 2012 14:42 aksfjh wrote:On October 25 2012 11:26 BluePanther wrote:On October 25 2012 11:20 nevermindthebollocks wrote:Hey check this out. When you get away from fox news and get an unbiased view of who is better this is the result ![[image loading]](http://www.weeklystandard.com/sites/all/files/images/_63592042_worldservicepoll_464_obama_embargoed23102012.gif) single digits in almost every country for romney sounds about right I'm sorry, but this thread has shown several times that Canada is probably the only country that has citizens that understand American politics even remotely well (and even then it's pretty shoddy when you get the the nuances). The rest of the world just hates republicans because they like to hate Bush. True Story. The rest of the world hates Republicans because they're further right than most of their right-wing extremist parties. You can tell yourself this all you want, but it simply isn't true. It's true. It's not at all true. I'm a Republican, but I think most people would consider me a liberal if they talked policy with me. It's true. Once again people needa stop throwing out minority examples in an attempt to discredit a larger trend. Where is your proof?
Now you're gonna make me go through my posts to find a graph I posted a long time ago... sigh.
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On October 25 2012 15:14 Jumbled wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 15:09 BluePanther wrote:On October 25 2012 15:00 sevencck wrote:On October 25 2012 14:58 Swazi Spring wrote:On October 25 2012 14:42 aksfjh wrote:On October 25 2012 11:26 BluePanther wrote:On October 25 2012 11:20 nevermindthebollocks wrote:Hey check this out. When you get away from fox news and get an unbiased view of who is better this is the result single digits in almost every country for romney sounds about right I'm sorry, but this thread has shown several times that Canada is probably the only country that has citizens that understand American politics even remotely well (and even then it's pretty shoddy when you get the the nuances). The rest of the world just hates republicans because they like to hate Bush. True Story. The rest of the world hates Republicans because they're further right than most of their right-wing extremist parties. You can tell yourself this all you want, but it simply isn't true. It's true. It's not at all true. I'm a Republican, but I think most people would consider me a liberal if they talked policy with me. Do you consider yourself a typical example of the Republican core?
Core is an odd word. I'm definitely on the left side of the Republican Party, but I'm by no means alone. I think you find people who align with me are the "silent majority" in truth. We're not nearly as vocal or involved (usually). It's usually 10% from the far right doing 80% of the talking in this party.
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On October 25 2012 15:14 Jumbled wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 15:09 BluePanther wrote:On October 25 2012 15:00 sevencck wrote:On October 25 2012 14:58 Swazi Spring wrote:On October 25 2012 14:42 aksfjh wrote:On October 25 2012 11:26 BluePanther wrote:On October 25 2012 11:20 nevermindthebollocks wrote:Hey check this out. When you get away from fox news and get an unbiased view of who is better this is the result single digits in almost every country for romney sounds about right I'm sorry, but this thread has shown several times that Canada is probably the only country that has citizens that understand American politics even remotely well (and even then it's pretty shoddy when you get the the nuances). The rest of the world just hates republicans because they like to hate Bush. True Story. The rest of the world hates Republicans because they're further right than most of their right-wing extremist parties. You can tell yourself this all you want, but it simply isn't true. It's true. It's not at all true. I'm a Republican, but I think most people would consider me a liberal if they talked policy with me. Do you consider yourself a typical example of the Republican core?
I think he's a good example of what the Republican core will be in the future. As it stands? Probably not.
Edit: BP based upon my anecdotal evidence I liken the Republican base to my relatives in the South. Pure anecdote, I know, but I have yet to see anything dissuade me from this view.
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
Swazi Spring: Sorry, I really can't be assed to wade through all my posts to find the graph. It was something I snatched off a power point presentation from my Comparative Politics class and I'm too lazy to wade through all those power points as well. I'll let the Europeans/Canadians refute you instead if they want to take the time.
On October 25 2012 15:17 BluePanther wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 15:14 Jumbled wrote:On October 25 2012 15:09 BluePanther wrote:On October 25 2012 15:00 sevencck wrote:On October 25 2012 14:58 Swazi Spring wrote:On October 25 2012 14:42 aksfjh wrote:On October 25 2012 11:26 BluePanther wrote:On October 25 2012 11:20 nevermindthebollocks wrote:Hey check this out. When you get away from fox news and get an unbiased view of who is better this is the result single digits in almost every country for romney sounds about right I'm sorry, but this thread has shown several times that Canada is probably the only country that has citizens that understand American politics even remotely well (and even then it's pretty shoddy when you get the the nuances). The rest of the world just hates republicans because they like to hate Bush. True Story. The rest of the world hates Republicans because they're further right than most of their right-wing extremist parties. You can tell yourself this all you want, but it simply isn't true. It's true. It's not at all true. I'm a Republican, but I think most people would consider me a liberal if they talked policy with me. Do you consider yourself a typical example of the Republican core? Core is an odd word. I'm definitely on the left side of the Republican Party, but I'm by no means alone. I think you find people who align with me are the "silent majority" in truth. We're not nearly as vocal or involved (usually). It's usually 10% from the far right doing 80% of the talking in this party.
That's true too. The Republican party (as in, the constituents) are generally more liberal than the representatives make them out to be.
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A decent approximation, with 1 being pure commie and 10 being extremely right wing.
In Europe, most parties are probably around a 4-5, with the (actual) socialist parties at around 3. The US Democratic Party is like a 5.5. The US Republican Party is like a 7, with the very vocal minority at 8. Then you have crazies like the British Nationalist Party and those Japanese nationalists who rate at like 8.5, but they're actually fringe elements.
I'm making this shit up at 2am, but you get the idea.
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On October 25 2012 15:37 ticklishmusic wrote:
A decent approximation, with 1 being pure commie and 10 being extremely right wing.
In Europe, most parties are probably around a 4-5, with the (actual) socialist parties at around 3. The US Democratic Party is like a 5.5. The US Republican Party is like a 7, with the very vocal minority at 8. Then you have crazies like the British Nationalist Party and those Japanese nationalists who rate at like 8.5, but they're actually fringe elements.
I'm making this shit up at 2am, but you get the idea.
What do you define as "right wing"?
I mean, there are conservatives and liberals in the Republican Party. So you can't base a linear number solely off how they handle social issues. It's an absolute failure to attempt that methodology.
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On October 25 2012 15:03 jdseemoreglass wrote:
"Women voters, black voters, Hispanic voters, Southern voters, Catholic voters...." God I hate modern politics. You can't get any more divisive.
You hate modern politics...as opposed to what? The politics where only straight white Protestant males matter and fuck everyone else? Because those are the only two politics we've had.
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
On October 25 2012 15:41 BluePanther wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 15:37 ticklishmusic wrote:
A decent approximation, with 1 being pure commie and 10 being extremely right wing.
In Europe, most parties are probably around a 4-5, with the (actual) socialist parties at around 3. The US Democratic Party is like a 5.5. The US Republican Party is like a 7, with the very vocal minority at 8. Then you have crazies like the British Nationalist Party and those Japanese nationalists who rate at like 8.5, but they're actually fringe elements.
I'm making this shit up at 2am, but you get the idea. What do you define as "right wing"? I mean, there are conservatives and liberals in the Republican Party. So you can't base a linear number solely off how they handle social issues. It's an absolute failure to attempt that methodology.
Well there's obviously also how they deal with the economy (aka how willing are they to nationalize some industries as opposed to how much they believe in the free market) and also foreign policy (peace through diplomacy vs. peace through strength and other such things).
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On October 25 2012 15:42 HunterX11 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 15:03 jdseemoreglass wrote:
"Women voters, black voters, Hispanic voters, Southern voters, Catholic voters...." God I hate modern politics. You can't get any more divisive. You hate modern politics...as opposed to what? The politics where only straight white Protestant males matter and fuck everyone else? Because those are the only two politics we've had.
there's something to be said for a more culturally homogenous polity...
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On October 25 2012 15:22 Souma wrote:Swazi Spring: Sorry, I really can't be assed to wade through all my posts to find the graph. It was something I snatched off a power point presentation from my Comparative Politics class and I'm too lazy to wade through all those power points as well. I'll let the Europeans/Canadians refute you instead if they want to take the time. Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 15:17 BluePanther wrote:On October 25 2012 15:14 Jumbled wrote:On October 25 2012 15:09 BluePanther wrote:On October 25 2012 15:00 sevencck wrote:On October 25 2012 14:58 Swazi Spring wrote:On October 25 2012 14:42 aksfjh wrote:On October 25 2012 11:26 BluePanther wrote:On October 25 2012 11:20 nevermindthebollocks wrote:Hey check this out. When you get away from fox news and get an unbiased view of who is better this is the result single digits in almost every country for romney sounds about right I'm sorry, but this thread has shown several times that Canada is probably the only country that has citizens that understand American politics even remotely well (and even then it's pretty shoddy when you get the the nuances). The rest of the world just hates republicans because they like to hate Bush. True Story. The rest of the world hates Republicans because they're further right than most of their right-wing extremist parties. You can tell yourself this all you want, but it simply isn't true. It's true. It's not at all true. I'm a Republican, but I think most people would consider me a liberal if they talked policy with me. Do you consider yourself a typical example of the Republican core? Core is an odd word. I'm definitely on the left side of the Republican Party, but I'm by no means alone. I think you find people who align with me are the "silent majority" in truth. We're not nearly as vocal or involved (usually). It's usually 10% from the far right doing 80% of the talking in this party. That's true too. The Republican party (as in, the constituents) are generally more liberal than the representatives make them out to be.
Souma, a few things. I don't think it's fair to compare American federal politics to European politics. Two different cultures (with good reason). It's comparing apples to oranges. Maybe if you did State politics or local politics, but even then I think it's a little different based on the fact that much of the US is far less densely populated. That plays a huge role in the differences.
The second thing about the Representatives being more conservative than the actual voters. This is true. Very true. A huge reason for this problem is the primary system. People in the middle tend to be less militant about their views. They are less likely to volunteer, less likely to get involved, less likely to debate and get worked up over politics. It takes a lot of man-hours and sweat and money to run a federal primary campaign. You literally have to build a small military to do your bidding and poeple who are so pumped about your views that they will donate money. This is nigh impossible from the middle. So what you get is more extreme members of the party getting more help, and being able to run significantly more effective campaigns. And you know who votes in these Primaries? Those same individuals who are donating time and money. The ones who care more than they probably should. It's the same on both sides. So what do these candidates do? They adopt the positions of farther right/left voters to court them for the primary. This pigeonholes them in the general and they're stuck in a place they may not even want to be. It's a serious problem that demands serious change. I'm going to start a topic about this after the November general with you guys 
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On October 25 2012 15:52 BluePanther wrote:I'm going to start a topic about this after the November general with you guys
word, bluepanther, that sounds sick I'm looking forward to annoying all of you therein
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On October 25 2012 15:53 sam!zdat wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 15:52 BluePanther wrote:I'm going to start a topic about this after the November general with you guys word, bluepanther, that sounds sick I'm looking forward to annoying all of you therein
I actually don't think we'd be annoying each other. I find there are a number of intelligent posters in this thread that, while I may not agree with them, have good ideas and interesting perspectives. I think this would make a very enlightening discussion to talk about government without partisanship.
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I'm reporting you to the department of blasphemy
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Just playing off Souma's point, the Conservative party in Canada is probably more left wing than the Democrats are in the US. They favour regulation over the insane free market your republican party desires. They also support most of the social programs the Liberals and NDP support here. I am a liberal voter, but havent been too offput by our Conservative party here, other than their increase in prisons and harder line on minor drug use (even though i am not a user myself). Theres like 2 representatives who I extremely dislike because of their vocal opposition of abortion, and similar religiously guided social principles, but other than that, they seem to sit nicely around the center just like the Liberals do.
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
On October 25 2012 15:52 BluePanther wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 15:22 Souma wrote:Swazi Spring: Sorry, I really can't be assed to wade through all my posts to find the graph. It was something I snatched off a power point presentation from my Comparative Politics class and I'm too lazy to wade through all those power points as well. I'll let the Europeans/Canadians refute you instead if they want to take the time. On October 25 2012 15:17 BluePanther wrote:On October 25 2012 15:14 Jumbled wrote:On October 25 2012 15:09 BluePanther wrote:On October 25 2012 15:00 sevencck wrote:On October 25 2012 14:58 Swazi Spring wrote:On October 25 2012 14:42 aksfjh wrote:On October 25 2012 11:26 BluePanther wrote:On October 25 2012 11:20 nevermindthebollocks wrote:Hey check this out. When you get away from fox news and get an unbiased view of who is better this is the result single digits in almost every country for romney sounds about right I'm sorry, but this thread has shown several times that Canada is probably the only country that has citizens that understand American politics even remotely well (and even then it's pretty shoddy when you get the the nuances). The rest of the world just hates republicans because they like to hate Bush. True Story. The rest of the world hates Republicans because they're further right than most of their right-wing extremist parties. You can tell yourself this all you want, but it simply isn't true. It's true. It's not at all true. I'm a Republican, but I think most people would consider me a liberal if they talked policy with me. Do you consider yourself a typical example of the Republican core? Core is an odd word. I'm definitely on the left side of the Republican Party, but I'm by no means alone. I think you find people who align with me are the "silent majority" in truth. We're not nearly as vocal or involved (usually). It's usually 10% from the far right doing 80% of the talking in this party. That's true too. The Republican party (as in, the constituents) are generally more liberal than the representatives make them out to be. Souma, a few things. I don't think it's fair to compare American federal politics to European politics. Two different cultures (with good reason). It's comparing apples to oranges. Maybe if you did State politics or local politics, but even then I think it's a little different based on the fact that much of the US is far less densely populated. That plays a huge role in the differences. The second thing about the Representatives being more conservative than the actual voters. This is true. Very true. A huge reason for this problem is the primary system. People in the middle tend to be less militant about their views. They are less likely to volunteer, less likely to get involved, less likely to debate and get worked up over politics. It takes a lot of man-hours and sweat and money to run a federal primary campaign. You literally have to build a small military to do your bidding and poeple who are so pumped about your views that they will donate money. This is nigh impossible from the middle. So what you get is more extreme members of the party getting more help, and being able to run significantly more effective campaigns. And you know who votes in these Primaries? Those same individuals who are donating time and money. The ones who care more than they probably should. It's the same on both sides. So what do these candidates do? They adopt the positions of farther right/left voters to court them for the primary. This pigeonholes them in the general and they're stuck in a place they may not even want to be. It's a serious problem that demands serious change. I'm going to start a topic about this after the November general with you guys
Well, the whole thing about comparative politics is to analyze how the political culture of varying countries are different and how one may prescribe policies/establish governments to fit the mold of a specific country. It's what leads us to the question, "Is it possible to establish a working democracy in X country, and if so, how?" So even if, say, the political culture of the U.S. and Finland are incredibly different, while it may be unfeasible to directly implement Finland's universal health care system into America, this doesn't mean that it's not possible to find a system that would work for America.
There's also the question of whether part of that "culture" is a direct result of some underlying environmental/systemic cause and not innate to the citizens of said country. For instance, Americans love guns because it's been in our history and it's tradition; however, is the average American more likely to succumb to "mooching" off the government because we're inherently lazy or is it because of a systemic problem? If it's the latter we look at other countries to look for a way to remedy the situation and select something (and modify it or come up with our own solution if need be) to fit the mold of what may suit the citizenry.
Comparative politics is important whether you're comparing the U.S. to Japan, Europe or the Middle East. It allows us to see what works and in what kinds of situations. Other developed democracies, while culturally different, still have quite a lot alike with the U.S, and it's always nice to look abroad to see if something can be adopted.
As a wise man once said, "There is a lot more that unites us than divides us."
As for the primary process, I agree and I'm looking forward to the thread. =)
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The one thing where Republicans seem to be more right than allmost any (non fringe) european party is their extreme support of the free market. In other areas the diffrences are small and not "fringe" or anything.
With democrats it's the same, the views of the US on capitalism/marked regulation just seem pretty diffrent from that of most europeans.
In most other areas Dems/Reps don't seem too diffrent from european parties... But as it happens, economics is a pretty important aspect of politics  .
In the last ~20-30 years europe tryed to get more inline with the US.. I would argue that this hasn't done much good for the general population.
Oh... And there is the evolution/global warming/science denial and general importance of religion which just seems crazy to most europeans. Thats not exactly helping you when advertising the Republicans just as "conservative". One can have the best plan in the world for the economy, when the same guy is denieing things most people would call "facts" a few sentences later he loses all credibility...
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Mind me asking why OSCE/ODIHR-observers are forbidden to observe this election under threat of criminal prosecution?
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
On October 25 2012 16:44 m4inbrain wrote:
Mind me asking why OSCE/ODIHR-observers are forbidden to observe this election under threat of criminal prosecution?
This is Amurrca. We do not give up our sovereignty to international organizations! (unless they're corporations)
Actually, I had no idea. Source? :o
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So if I understand it right (please correct me if I'm wrong), a main difference between two parties is as follows:
- Republicans are liberal in economic terms (yes to free market, yes to low taxes etc.) and conservative in social terms (no to minorities, no to abortion etc.)
- Democrats are conservative in economic terms (no to free market, no to low taxes etc.) and liberal in social terms (yes to minorities, yes to abortion etc.)
The choice seems quite limited. What if some people like liberal approach to both economic and social issues?
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Sorry. Source.
Just read it today in (german) news. Which in this case (online-news), to be fair, is often quite "sensationalist" for no reason, thats why im asking.
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EPT
