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On April 19 2012 14:00 Grimmyman123 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 13:52 SnipedSoul wrote:On April 19 2012 13:49 Grimmyman123 wrote:
Why in the world should ANY government bail out ANY student that chose to attend college or university.
These students have the highest grades and have met the highest standards to be accepted to a college or university. As they possess this level of intelligence, they understand and know what financial commitment they are entering into, and the reward for having a degree or diploma will reap rewards later with higher incomes from their choice of employ over those without the slip of paper.
If you choose to go to college or university, you also choose to pay for it. Except a lot of new grads are having trouble finding jobs. Who cares if they are going to make more money in 20 years if they default on their loans in 5? A student of such a high caliber of grades should be able to deduce what career path they should choose to be successful. I fail to see how their poor decisions should be rewarded by a free education, paid for by taxes which were in turn paid by hard working people who are employed. That student, if they default on their loan(s), should pay the price for that default. They know fully well what they are getting into when they signed on the bottom line. They certainly can read the fine print. They are often top of their class' and can make complex decisions and can gather information and analyse it.
Therein lies the problem. A lot of people who go to college aren't, as you say, high caliber enough. There's schools out there that will take you with a 2.0 from high school and spit you out four years later with a 2.0 from college as long as you can pay. Unfortunately you can't do the same when you get to the real world-- in the end, a diploma or degree is only worth as much as you put into it.
Some are actually rich and can afford to get an "easy" degree and party. Others aren't as wealthy and squander the opportunity college is supposed t provide.
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On April 19 2012 14:08 Grimmyman123 wrote:Surely not, unless they study magic of course. But it is not hard to study the current demographic for an area, and identify areas where employment will be available. If one resides in an area that is largely aged or a retirement community, it makes a large amount of sense to seek education and employ in related areas to that demographic - Health care, physiotherapy, legal, funeral related employ, etc. Instead students take kinesiology, early childhood education, public works, etc etc?????????
I would love to become a Computer Engineer and makes lots of money like my roommate likely will. A few problems.
1. No school would allow me into even Computer Science because I lack prerequisites (ones that would take years to finish)
2. I'm horrible at Math, so a hard science or engineering program is not one I will likely succeed in.
3. Areas change. What may be needed in one year could be completely saturated in 4-6 when someone finished school.
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On April 19 2012 14:09 Zalithian wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 14:06 Cubu wrote:On April 19 2012 13:53 Zalithian wrote:On April 19 2012 13:52 Cubu wrote:On April 19 2012 13:48 Zalithian wrote:On April 19 2012 13:46 Cubu wrote:On April 19 2012 13:41 Zalithian wrote:On April 19 2012 13:39 Cubu wrote:
I don't think this is the right time for this. Maybe when america has reduced a significant portion of their debt. But it just doesn't seem fair for other people. Yeah, we bailed out the banks, but the people? Let's wait. I wish America would stop being so militaristic and take care of home, but of course that won't happen. Gotta get them "terrorists" and "free people all over the world." They bailed out the banks because it was either that or their economy. This is different. I'm not an economist so I won't argue with you on whether or not that was necessary, but any refutation to my military point? what does your military point have to do with this topic? I don't know, spending trillions of dollars on war that could make education cheaper for American's might be related to why students have to take out such huge loans. Then again, it could also be the problem [the government guarantees](that allows tuition to be so absurdly expensive) Yeah they've brought troops back from the war, but i don't see the economy coming back in shape, although it did help abit. It is one of those mess that can only be reduced through time. They brought back troops from one war. Still plenty in Afghanistan. No real decreases to the US's absurd military budget which looks to be over 1 trillion dollars this year. But god forbid we cut even a sliver of that and increase Pell Grant funding. Instead - they cut Pell Grant funding.
If they just withdraw from all wars they are involved in, then all their war efforts will be in vain. It is not as simple as 'we need more money so we'll withdraw our troops'. You just look at the present, but think of the past. They spent like 10 years. Once they withdraw, thats 10 years worth of time and resources used for nothing.
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On April 19 2012 14:09 ticklishmusic wrote:
Therein lies the problem. A lot of people who go to college aren't, as you say, high caliber enough. There's schools out there that will take you with a 2.0 from high school and spit you out four years later with a 2.0 from college as long as you can pay. Unfortunately you can't do the same when you get to the real world-- in the end, a diploma or degree is only worth as much as you put into it.
Some are actually rich and can afford to get an "easy" degree and party. Others aren't as wealthy and squander the opportunity college is supposed t provide.
The student receives a diploma or a degree. They can now in turn apply for employ in their CHOSEN field, which they qualify for. A great number of employers require ANY degree or diploma for a range of positions, which pay quite well.
The diploma or degree doesnt say their grade on the front of it does it? I thought that was only reserved for Honors students etc.
If a student makes poor decisions and choices, fails to apply themselves to obtain a quality education and cannot hold down employ because of their lack of a quality education, I further fail to see how that becomes the tax payers responsibility.
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On April 19 2012 14:14 Cubu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 14:09 Zalithian wrote:On April 19 2012 14:06 Cubu wrote:On April 19 2012 13:53 Zalithian wrote:On April 19 2012 13:52 Cubu wrote:On April 19 2012 13:48 Zalithian wrote:On April 19 2012 13:46 Cubu wrote:On April 19 2012 13:41 Zalithian wrote:On April 19 2012 13:39 Cubu wrote:
I don't think this is the right time for this. Maybe when america has reduced a significant portion of their debt. But it just doesn't seem fair for other people. Yeah, we bailed out the banks, but the people? Let's wait. I wish America would stop being so militaristic and take care of home, but of course that won't happen. Gotta get them "terrorists" and "free people all over the world." They bailed out the banks because it was either that or their economy. This is different. I'm not an economist so I won't argue with you on whether or not that was necessary, but any refutation to my military point? what does your military point have to do with this topic? I don't know, spending trillions of dollars on war that could make education cheaper for American's might be related to why students have to take out such huge loans. Then again, it could also be the problem [the government guarantees](that allows tuition to be so absurdly expensive) Yeah they've brought troops back from the war, but i don't see the economy coming back in shape, although it did help abit. It is one of those mess that can only be reduced through time. They brought back troops from one war. Still plenty in Afghanistan. No real decreases to the US's absurd military budget which looks to be over 1 trillion dollars this year. But god forbid we cut even a sliver of that and increase Pell Grant funding. Instead - they cut Pell Grant funding. If they just withdraw from all wars they are involved in, then all their war efforts will be in vain. It is not as simple as 'we need more money so we'll withdraw our troops'. You just look at the present, but think of the past. They spent like 10 years. Once they withdraw, thats 10 years worth of time and resources used for nothing.
So if they wasted money already, maybe if they spend more it will turn out well? How did Iraq turn out, by the way? Keeping troops in Afghanistan is fruitless. Even if that weren't true however, there is still plenty of money that could be cut from the military budget to further more important things like education.
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On April 19 2012 14:01 Zalithian wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 14:00 Grimmyman123 wrote:On April 19 2012 13:52 SnipedSoul wrote:On April 19 2012 13:49 Grimmyman123 wrote:
Why in the world should ANY government bail out ANY student that chose to attend college or university.
These students have the highest grades and have met the highest standards to be accepted to a college or university. As they possess this level of intelligence, they understand and know what financial commitment they are entering into, and the reward for having a degree or diploma will reap rewards later with higher incomes from their choice of employ over those without the slip of paper.
If you choose to go to college or university, you also choose to pay for it. Except a lot of new grads are having trouble finding jobs. Who cares if they are going to make more money in 20 years if they default on their loans in 5? A student of such a high caliber of grades should be able to deduce what career path they should choose to be successful. I fail to see how their poor decisions should be rewarded by a free education, paid for by taxes which were in turn paid by hard working people who are employed. That student, if they default on their loan(s), should pay the price for that default. They know fully well what they are getting into when they signed on the bottom line. They certainly can read the fine print. They are often top of their class' and can make complex decisions and can gather information and analyse it. And they can also tell the future.
To all the people having trouble finding jobs: You aren't trying hard enough, or you're being too fucking picky about the jobs you're willing to do. End of story.
If you went to Harvard and were expecting to find like $75K+/yr job but can't find it, settle for the $40k entry level job for now and pay your fucking debt. Will you live the glamorous life you dreamed of during your years in college? No. Get disappointed, and get over it.
Similarly, if you went to a state school, settle for the best employment you can, and pay your fucking debt. Live at home, get disappointed, and get over it.
Oh you majored in English Literature and are having a hard time finding a job that gives a shit about your degree? That sucks, get a job doing something else. Oh you're not living your dream? QQ. You can either pursue your dream whilst unemployed and falling further and further into debt, or toughen up and earn a paycheck even if you don't like your job, pay the bills, and put your english lit dreams on the back burner until the opportunity arises.
The people that are saying they are having a hard time getting a job aren't communicating their problem effectively. If they're having a hard time finding a job, that's fine. So it was difficult to find a job, be glad you found one. If they claim they can't find a job, then they're either: picky, lazy, conceited, stubborn, or just unemployable for reasons unrelated to the rough job market. You [b]can find [b]a job. It might not be the one you wanted, it might not even be the 2nd 3rd 4th or 5th job you wanted, but if you took out student loans you can't afford, you better find a job.
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On April 19 2012 14:13 Zalithian wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 14:08 Grimmyman123 wrote:On April 19 2012 14:01 Zalithian wrote:
And they can also tell the future. Surely not, unless they study magic of course. But it is not hard to study the current demographic for an area, and identify areas where employment will be available. If one resides in an area that is largely aged or a retirement community, it makes a large amount of sense to seek education and employ in related areas to that demographic - Health care, physiotherapy, legal, funeral related employ, etc. Instead students take kinesiology, early childhood education, public works, etc etc????????? I would love to become a Computer Engineer and makes lots of money like my roommate likely will. A few problems. 1. No school would allow me into even Computer Science because I lack prerequisites (ones that would take years to finish) 2. I'm horrible at Math, so a hard science or engineering program is not one I will likely succeed in. 3. Areas change. What may be needed in one year could be completely saturated in 4-6 when someone finished school.
1 and 2) Then you must compromise and you do not get to pursue your dream job. Choose a career path that will set you
up for success and employ, not one because you think it is fun or entertaining.
3) Employment demands for educated fields are not single year dynamics.
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On April 19 2012 14:17 spbelky wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 14:01 Zalithian wrote:On April 19 2012 14:00 Grimmyman123 wrote:On April 19 2012 13:52 SnipedSoul wrote:On April 19 2012 13:49 Grimmyman123 wrote:
Why in the world should ANY government bail out ANY student that chose to attend college or university.
These students have the highest grades and have met the highest standards to be accepted to a college or university. As they possess this level of intelligence, they understand and know what financial commitment they are entering into, and the reward for having a degree or diploma will reap rewards later with higher incomes from their choice of employ over those without the slip of paper.
If you choose to go to college or university, you also choose to pay for it. Except a lot of new grads are having trouble finding jobs. Who cares if they are going to make more money in 20 years if they default on their loans in 5? A student of such a high caliber of grades should be able to deduce what career path they should choose to be successful. I fail to see how their poor decisions should be rewarded by a free education, paid for by taxes which were in turn paid by hard working people who are employed. That student, if they default on their loan(s), should pay the price for that default. They know fully well what they are getting into when they signed on the bottom line. They certainly can read the fine print. They are often top of their class' and can make complex decisions and can gather information and analyse it. And they can also tell the future. To all the people having trouble finding jobs: You aren't trying hard enough, or you're being too fucking picky about the jobs you're willing to do. End of story. If you went to Harvard and were expecting to find like $75K+/yr job but can't find it, settle for the $40k entry level job for now and pay your fucking debt. Will you live the glamorous life you dreamed of during your years in college? No. Get disappointed, and get over it. Similarly, if you went to a state school like me, settle for the best employment you can, and pay your fucking debt. Live at home, get disappointed, and get over it. Oh you majored in English Literature and are having a hard time finding a job that gives a shit about your degree? That sucks, get a job doing something else. Oh you're not living your dream? QQ. You can either pursue your dream whilst unemployed and falling further and further into debt, or toughen up and earn a paycheck even if you don't like your job, pay the bills, and put your english lit dreams on the back burner until the opportunity arises. The people that are saying they are having a hard time getting a job aren't communicating their problem effectively. If they're having a hard time finding a job, that's fine. So it was difficult to find a job, be glad you found one. If they claim they can't find a job, then they're either: picky, lazy, conceited, stubborn, or just unemployable for reasons unrelated to the rough job market. You [b]can find [b]a job. It might not be the one you wanted, it might not even be the 2nd 3rd 4th or 5th job you wanted, but if you took out student loans you can't afford, you better find a job.
Wow. So bitter. And not even remotely useful.
"Be a man and suck it up!"
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On April 19 2012 14:17 Grimmyman123 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 14:13 Zalithian wrote:On April 19 2012 14:08 Grimmyman123 wrote:On April 19 2012 14:01 Zalithian wrote:
And they can also tell the future. Surely not, unless they study magic of course. But it is not hard to study the current demographic for an area, and identify areas where employment will be available. If one resides in an area that is largely aged or a retirement community, it makes a large amount of sense to seek education and employ in related areas to that demographic - Health care, physiotherapy, legal, funeral related employ, etc. Instead students take kinesiology, early childhood education, public works, etc etc????????? I would love to become a Computer Engineer and makes lots of money like my roommate likely will. A few problems. 1. No school would allow me into even Computer Science because I lack prerequisites (ones that would take years to finish) 2. I'm horrible at Math, so a hard science or engineering program is not one I will likely succeed in. 3. Areas change. What may be needed in one year could be completely saturated in 4-6 when someone finished school. 1 and 2) Then you must compromise and you do not get to pursue your dream job. Choose a career path that will set you up for success and employ, not one because you think it is fun or entertaining. 3) Employment demands for educated fields are not single year dynamics.
I already have a career plan, but it doesn't involve living in the US.
I don't know. I heard Engineers and other hard science fields needed people badly, and then got flooded. I don't know about statistics. Simply anecdotes. Maybe the people in those fields who can't find anything are the minority.
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On April 19 2012 14:16 Zalithian wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 14:14 Cubu wrote:On April 19 2012 14:09 Zalithian wrote:On April 19 2012 14:06 Cubu wrote:On April 19 2012 13:53 Zalithian wrote:On April 19 2012 13:52 Cubu wrote:On April 19 2012 13:48 Zalithian wrote:On April 19 2012 13:46 Cubu wrote:On April 19 2012 13:41 Zalithian wrote:On April 19 2012 13:39 Cubu wrote:
I don't think this is the right time for this. Maybe when america has reduced a significant portion of their debt. But it just doesn't seem fair for other people. Yeah, we bailed out the banks, but the people? Let's wait. I wish America would stop being so militaristic and take care of home, but of course that won't happen. Gotta get them "terrorists" and "free people all over the world." They bailed out the banks because it was either that or their economy. This is different. I'm not an economist so I won't argue with you on whether or not that was necessary, but any refutation to my military point? what does your military point have to do with this topic? I don't know, spending trillions of dollars on war that could make education cheaper for American's might be related to why students have to take out such huge loans. Then again, it could also be the problem [the government guarantees](that allows tuition to be so absurdly expensive) Yeah they've brought troops back from the war, but i don't see the economy coming back in shape, although it did help abit. It is one of those mess that can only be reduced through time. They brought back troops from one war. Still plenty in Afghanistan. No real decreases to the US's absurd military budget which looks to be over 1 trillion dollars this year. But god forbid we cut even a sliver of that and increase Pell Grant funding. Instead - they cut Pell Grant funding. If they just withdraw from all wars they are involved in, then all their war efforts will be in vain. It is not as simple as 'we need more money so we'll withdraw our troops'. You just look at the present, but think of the past. They spent like 10 years. Once they withdraw, thats 10 years worth of time and resources used for nothing. So if they wasted money already, maybe if they spend more it will turn out well? How did Iraq turn out, by the way? Keeping troops in Afghanistan is fruitless. Even if that weren't true however, there is still plenty of money that could be cut from the military budget to further more important things like education.
It might or it might not turn out well. But that is a discussion for another topic.
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On April 19 2012 14:17 spbelky wrote:
To all the people having trouble finding jobs: You aren't trying hard enough, or you're being too fucking picky about the jobs you're willing to do. End of story.
If you went to Harvard and were expecting to find like $75K+/yr job but can't find it, settle for the $40k entry level job for now and pay your fucking debt. Will you live the glamorous life you dreamed of during your years in college? No. Get disappointed, and get over it.
Similarly, if you went to a state school like me, settle for the best employment you can, and pay your fucking debt. Live at home, get disappointed, and get over it.
Oh you majored in English Literature and are having a hard time finding a job that gives a shit about your degree? That sucks, get a job doing something else. Oh you're not living your dream? QQ. You can either pursue your dream whilst unemployed and falling further and further into debt, or toughen up and earn a paycheck even if you don't like your job, pay the bills, and put your english lit dreams on the back burner until the opportunity arises.
The people that are saying they are having a hard time getting a job aren't communicating their problem effectively. If they're having a hard time finding a job, that's fine. So it was difficult to find a job, be glad you found one. If they claim they can't find a job, then they're either: picky, lazy, conceited, stubborn, or just unemployable for reasons unrelated to the rough job market. You [b]can find [b]a job. It might not be the one you wanted, it might not even be the 2nd 3rd 4th or 5th job you wanted, but if you took out student loans you can't afford, you better find a job.
I agree.
40k a year for an "Entry level" job is a helluva lot of money for a 21 year old with ZERO job or life experience. Regardless, that means one heck of a nice apartment, a solid reliable car, good vacations 2 times a year, and their debts being managed easily.
I say: Choose to go to school, or work. If you choose to go to school for Post secondary education, then chose a career path for likely success and job stability.
Don't like your job? Get a new one.
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I graduated from a middle to high-end university with a degree in hard science, with plenty of laboratory experience before I had completed my degree. Since my parents could not support me financially in any way, yet the FAFSA determined that they would be able to provide ~8k each year, I ended up with over 100k in student loans by the time I was finished. Around the time that I completed my degree, the economy took this downturn and a job that I was previously promised at the university was closed. Finding another at the university was impossible, as each opening had approximately 50 people applying for the positions, many of them holding masters and PhDs (these openings were entry level positions). Unable to find any gainful employment with my student loan grace period ending, I had to give up my apartment (for which I still owe money... they haven't tried to collect recently - I suspect legal fees are dissuading them from trying to take action against me) and move back home with my parents, to a location that has very little in the way of scientific industry.
Unable to find a job in anything even remotely related to my career, I am doing what many people seem to be suggesting - I got a job at a fast food restaurant at the entry level. I currently make 8 dollars an hour. This barely allows me to cover the reduced loan payments that I've received for economic hardship, but I'm not sure what's going to happen when that period ends and the full amount needs to be paid. I have no money to relocate anywhere with more lucrative job opportunities, and much of my free time not working is spent looking for jobs (I have not received any other interviews, besides another entry level sales position - it's been 3 months now).
I have spent a lot of time thinking about ways in which to better my situation, but I need a job to make enough money to go somewhere to get a better job. I would kill myself, but my parents are co-signed on my loans so if I died they would have to pay off the remaining balance, which is not at all a possibility for them. I couldn't leave them with that financial burden - that is the only thing preventing me from taking this logical step.
I understand that many people will post about how irresponsible I am for taking out these loans, but when I took them I was earnestly not expecting jobs to become so scarce and science to become as maligned as it currently is in the US. Regardless of what else could be said about my decision, the start of my university career was one of hope and a desire to better myself and the scientific community.
In any case, I just wanted to give an alternative perspective for those who seem to think it's all about laziness and a non-desire to "pull ourselves up by our bootstraps", so to speak.
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On April 19 2012 14:18 Zalithian wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 14:17 spbelky wrote:On April 19 2012 14:01 Zalithian wrote:On April 19 2012 14:00 Grimmyman123 wrote:On April 19 2012 13:52 SnipedSoul wrote:On April 19 2012 13:49 Grimmyman123 wrote:
Why in the world should ANY government bail out ANY student that chose to attend college or university.
These students have the highest grades and have met the highest standards to be accepted to a college or university. As they possess this level of intelligence, they understand and know what financial commitment they are entering into, and the reward for having a degree or diploma will reap rewards later with higher incomes from their choice of employ over those without the slip of paper.
If you choose to go to college or university, you also choose to pay for it. Except a lot of new grads are having trouble finding jobs. Who cares if they are going to make more money in 20 years if they default on their loans in 5? A student of such a high caliber of grades should be able to deduce what career path they should choose to be successful. I fail to see how their poor decisions should be rewarded by a free education, paid for by taxes which were in turn paid by hard working people who are employed. That student, if they default on their loan(s), should pay the price for that default. They know fully well what they are getting into when they signed on the bottom line. They certainly can read the fine print. They are often top of their class' and can make complex decisions and can gather information and analyse it. And they can also tell the future. To all the people having trouble finding jobs: You aren't trying hard enough, or you're being too fucking picky about the jobs you're willing to do. End of story. If you went to Harvard and were expecting to find like $75K+/yr job but can't find it, settle for the $40k entry level job for now and pay your fucking debt. Will you live the glamorous life you dreamed of during your years in college? No. Get disappointed, and get over it. Similarly, if you went to a state school like me, settle for the best employment you can, and pay your fucking debt. Live at home, get disappointed, and get over it. Oh you majored in English Literature and are having a hard time finding a job that gives a shit about your degree? That sucks, get a job doing something else. Oh you're not living your dream? QQ. You can either pursue your dream whilst unemployed and falling further and further into debt, or toughen up and earn a paycheck even if you don't like your job, pay the bills, and put your english lit dreams on the back burner until the opportunity arises. The people that are saying they are having a hard time getting a job aren't communicating their problem effectively. If they're having a hard time finding a job, that's fine. So it was difficult to find a job, be glad you found one. If they claim they can't find a job, then they're either: picky, lazy, conceited, stubborn, or just unemployable for reasons unrelated to the rough job market. You [b]can find [b]a job. It might not be the one you wanted, it might not even be the 2nd 3rd 4th or 5th job you wanted, but if you took out student loans you can't afford, you better find a job. Wow. So bitter. And not even remotely useful. "Be a man and suck it up!"
Not even remotely useful? To what use are we supposed to post then? My intention was clearly to point out that the majority of people who claim they CAN'T afford their student loans actually CAN. So this entire proposed bill is useless. Or, if you are one of the people who is so far in to debt that even with employment you still can't afford your loans, then you're financially irresponsible, and those of us who ARE financially responsible shouldn't have to bail you out.
Again, "not even remotely useful." how?
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On April 19 2012 14:20 Grimmyman123 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 14:17 spbelky wrote:
To all the people having trouble finding jobs: You aren't trying hard enough, or you're being too fucking picky about the jobs you're willing to do. End of story.
If you went to Harvard and were expecting to find like $75K+/yr job but can't find it, settle for the $40k entry level job for now and pay your fucking debt. Will you live the glamorous life you dreamed of during your years in college? No. Get disappointed, and get over it.
Similarly, if you went to a state school like me, settle for the best employment you can, and pay your fucking debt. Live at home, get disappointed, and get over it.
Oh you majored in English Literature and are having a hard time finding a job that gives a shit about your degree? That sucks, get a job doing something else. Oh you're not living your dream? QQ. You can either pursue your dream whilst unemployed and falling further and further into debt, or toughen up and earn a paycheck even if you don't like your job, pay the bills, and put your english lit dreams on the back burner until the opportunity arises.
The people that are saying they are having a hard time getting a job aren't communicating their problem effectively. If they're having a hard time finding a job, that's fine. So it was difficult to find a job, be glad you found one. If they claim they can't find a job, then they're either: picky, lazy, conceited, stubborn, or just unemployable for reasons unrelated to the rough job market. You [b]can find [b]a job. It might not be the one you wanted, it might not even be the 2nd 3rd 4th or 5th job you wanted, but if you took out student loans you can't afford, you better find a job. I agree. 40k a year for an "Entry level" job is a helluva lot of money for a 21 year old with ZERO job or life experience. Regardless, that means one heck of a nice apartment, a solid reliable car, good vacations 2 times a year, and their debts being managed easily. I say: Choose to go to school, or work. If you choose to go to school for Post secondary education, then chose a career path for likely success and job stability. Don't like your job? Get a new one.
40k/yr is what NYC entry level jobs pay if you want to suck it up and work in an office in midtown/downtown.
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As someone who is going to be a high income worker out of college, meaning I will easily pay my student loans by myself, I support this. I am fine with the idea of my tax dollars going towards fixing a problem.
So long as high paying majors are encouraged. There need to be something done to make financially idiotic majors less sought. If you get some shitty liberal arts 4 year degree, don't be surprised when you can't pay bills. I don't think these majors should be disallowed, but there needs to be more in place to help more high paying majors graduate.
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On April 19 2012 14:25 spbelky wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 14:18 Zalithian wrote:On April 19 2012 14:17 spbelky wrote:On April 19 2012 14:01 Zalithian wrote:On April 19 2012 14:00 Grimmyman123 wrote:On April 19 2012 13:52 SnipedSoul wrote:On April 19 2012 13:49 Grimmyman123 wrote:
Why in the world should ANY government bail out ANY student that chose to attend college or university.
These students have the highest grades and have met the highest standards to be accepted to a college or university. As they possess this level of intelligence, they understand and know what financial commitment they are entering into, and the reward for having a degree or diploma will reap rewards later with higher incomes from their choice of employ over those without the slip of paper.
If you choose to go to college or university, you also choose to pay for it. Except a lot of new grads are having trouble finding jobs. Who cares if they are going to make more money in 20 years if they default on their loans in 5? A student of such a high caliber of grades should be able to deduce what career path they should choose to be successful. I fail to see how their poor decisions should be rewarded by a free education, paid for by taxes which were in turn paid by hard working people who are employed. That student, if they default on their loan(s), should pay the price for that default. They know fully well what they are getting into when they signed on the bottom line. They certainly can read the fine print. They are often top of their class' and can make complex decisions and can gather information and analyse it. And they can also tell the future. To all the people having trouble finding jobs: You aren't trying hard enough, or you're being too fucking picky about the jobs you're willing to do. End of story. If you went to Harvard and were expecting to find like $75K+/yr job but can't find it, settle for the $40k entry level job for now and pay your fucking debt. Will you live the glamorous life you dreamed of during your years in college? No. Get disappointed, and get over it. Similarly, if you went to a state school like me, settle for the best employment you can, and pay your fucking debt. Live at home, get disappointed, and get over it. Oh you majored in English Literature and are having a hard time finding a job that gives a shit about your degree? That sucks, get a job doing something else. Oh you're not living your dream? QQ. You can either pursue your dream whilst unemployed and falling further and further into debt, or toughen up and earn a paycheck even if you don't like your job, pay the bills, and put your english lit dreams on the back burner until the opportunity arises. The people that are saying they are having a hard time getting a job aren't communicating their problem effectively. If they're having a hard time finding a job, that's fine. So it was difficult to find a job, be glad you found one. If they claim they can't find a job, then they're either: picky, lazy, conceited, stubborn, or just unemployable for reasons unrelated to the rough job market. You [b]can find [b]a job. It might not be the one you wanted, it might not even be the 2nd 3rd 4th or 5th job you wanted, but if you took out student loans you can't afford, you better find a job. Wow. So bitter. And not even remotely useful. "Be a man and suck it up!" Not even remotely useful? To what use are we supposed to post then? My intention was clearly to point out that the majority of people who claim they CAN'T afford their student loans actually CAN. So this entire proposed bill is useless. Or, if you are one of the people who is so far in to debt that even with employment you still can't afford your loans, then you're financially irresponsible, and those of us who ARE financially responsible shouldn't have to bail you out. Again, "not even remotely useful." how?
Maybe something about how the educational system in the US needs an overhaul, or some proposals would be useful. If someone like the above poster has a job with a supposed "good degree" is making $8.00 an hour I have a feeling he actually can't afford his loans. Of course that's his fault for getting a degree that was in demand and then being unable to find a job he expected due to the economy going kapoof. Then again - how many people just say these people are being too picky or not looking hard enough. Only applied to 500 jobs? Should have applied for 2000 you lazy bum! Live off 12,000 a year working full time? Work 4 full time jobs! Slacker! Stop buying name brand pop tarts!
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MrSerene
It has nothing to do about lazyness.
It has everything to do with making good solid choices when selecting ones future employ.
You have a VERY specialized field of education. You unfortunately knew this when you signed up and started your studies.
There may not be employ for you, in the area you wish you reside, at this time. But there may be later, in which case, you will reap the rewards of your education.
If I, with no post secondary education, can go from living on welfare, and quite litterally wanting to off myself because I could not even feed myself on $600 a MONTH to cover my living expenses (Rent, Food, Utilities, laundry, public transit) and I managed to find meager employ, then better, and then even better emply to where I now rent an entire house to myself, have a stable job I enjoy (enough) and a fair vehicle to drive and recreational activities I REALLY enjoy - then there is hope for anyone in finding a job then enjoy. Some will find a job they LOVE. Some will find one that pays the bills.
There is a reason that pay is also called Compensation. You might not like your job, but it is a means to and end - likely temporary.
If you are having suicidal tendancies, I do strongly suggest you seek assistance and talk to someone. It does help, it does work, and there is light at the end of the tunnel, regardless of how long that tunnel might seem.
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On April 19 2012 14:22 MrSerene wrote:
I graduated from a middle to high-end university with a degree in hard science, with plenty of laboratory experience before I had completed my degree. Since my parents could not support me financially in any way, yet the FAFSA determined that they would be able to provide ~8k each year, I ended up with over 100k in student loans by the time I was finished. Around the time that I completed my degree, the economy took this downturn and a job that I was previously promised at the university was closed. Finding another at the university was impossible, as each opening had approximately 50 people applying for the positions, many of them holding masters and PhDs (these openings were entry level positions). Unable to find any gainful employment with my student loan grace period ending, I had to give up my apartment (for which I still owe money... they haven't tried to collect recently - I suspect legal fees are dissuading them from trying to take action against me) and move back home with my parents, to a location that has very little in the way of scientific industry.
Unable to find a job in anything even remotely related to my career, I am doing what many people seem to be suggesting - I got a job at a fast food restaurant at the entry level. I currently make 8 dollars an hour. This barely allows me to cover the reduced loan payments that I've received for economic hardship, but I'm not sure what's going to happen when that period ends and the full amount needs to be paid. I have no money to relocate anywhere with more lucrative job opportunities, and much of my free time not working is spent looking for jobs (I have not received any other interviews, besides another entry level sales position - it's been 3 months now).
I have spent a lot of time thinking about ways in which to better my situation, but I need a job to make enough money to go somewhere to get a better job. I would kill myself, but my parents are co-signed on my loans so if I died they would have to pay off the remaining balance, which is not at all a possibility for them. I couldn't leave them with that financial burden - that is the only thing preventing me from taking this logical step.
I understand that many people will post about how irresponsible I am for taking out these loans, but when I took them I was earnestly not expecting jobs to become so scarce and science to become as maligned as it currently is in the US. Regardless of what else could be said about my decision, the start of my university career was one of hope and a desire to better myself and the scientific community.
In any case, I just wanted to give an alternative perspective for those who seem to think it's all about laziness and a non-desire to "pull ourselves up by our bootstraps", so to speak.
8k/yr turns in to a 100k debt? I'm pretty good with money, and I feel like you're leaving something out. Regardless, let's assume that you do in fact some how have 100k in student loans debt. You should have been able to do the math before you signed anything and realized, "holy fuck, $100,000... maybe I should go to a cheaper school or find a better way to pay for this one."
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Lucky for me, merit + grants pretty much covers my major expenses, so I'll manage with little to no debt.
People certainly do need to make some better decisions. I researched the facts thoroughly regarding any major university decisions I've made, and I have no doubt everybody could and should do the same. Spending $100k+ on that which can't be profitable is a foolish decision. The community college option is a very nice way to save money, which is a great option for those who don't already have school paid for.
At the same time, costs are STILL ridiculous. Public universities are rising at a somewhat stable rate (because tuition changes must be approved by state boards), but private universities pretty much have no restrictions. To compensate, public universities try to sap even more money out of you in textbooks, "mandatory" dorm requirements, and the like. I mean, I like having improvements (especially since my tuition is pretty much paid), but building new $130m dorms almost on a whim seems beyond wasteful.
Something certainly needs to be done to stop tuition spikes, but I don't know if loan forgiveness is the best solution. Certainly fix the situation for those caught in the debt trap (with harsh but reasonable conditions) and then stop the education bubble. Tuition is overpriced and loans push it up further.
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On April 19 2012 14:26 spbelky wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 14:20 Grimmyman123 wrote:On April 19 2012 14:17 spbelky wrote:
To all the people having trouble finding jobs: You aren't trying hard enough, or you're being too fucking picky about the jobs you're willing to do. End of story.
If you went to Harvard and were expecting to find like $75K+/yr job but can't find it, settle for the $40k entry level job for now and pay your fucking debt. Will you live the glamorous life you dreamed of during your years in college? No. Get disappointed, and get over it.
Similarly, if you went to a state school like me, settle for the best employment you can, and pay your fucking debt. Live at home, get disappointed, and get over it.
Oh you majored in English Literature and are having a hard time finding a job that gives a shit about your degree? That sucks, get a job doing something else. Oh you're not living your dream? QQ. You can either pursue your dream whilst unemployed and falling further and further into debt, or toughen up and earn a paycheck even if you don't like your job, pay the bills, and put your english lit dreams on the back burner until the opportunity arises.
The people that are saying they are having a hard time getting a job aren't communicating their problem effectively. If they're having a hard time finding a job, that's fine. So it was difficult to find a job, be glad you found one. If they claim they can't find a job, then they're either: picky, lazy, conceited, stubborn, or just unemployable for reasons unrelated to the rough job market. You [b]can find [b]a job. It might not be the one you wanted, it might not even be the 2nd 3rd 4th or 5th job you wanted, but if you took out student loans you can't afford, you better find a job. I agree. 40k a year for an "Entry level" job is a helluva lot of money for a 21 year old with ZERO job or life experience. Regardless, that means one heck of a nice apartment, a solid reliable car, good vacations 2 times a year, and their debts being managed easily. I say: Choose to go to school, or work. If you choose to go to school for Post secondary education, then chose a career path for likely success and job stability. Don't like your job? Get a new one. 40k/yr is what NYC entry level jobs pay if you want to suck it up and work in an office in midtown/downtown.
Even better for the individual then. No need for a car. Nice Apt, good clothes, nice food, in a great city with a TON to do.
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EPT
